#dungeon meshi meta

[joaniam]

The episode where Chilchuck is lecturing Senshi about traps is SO INTERESTING.

Because Chilchuck IS right- he's the one doing his job to keep everyone safe, AND he probably has to be kind of an asshole to new people he's working with to make sure they Will Respect Him.

Which... Senshi... Kind of... doesn't. He views Chilchuck as an Actual Kid for a good portion of the series! Even when Chilchuck tells the party his actual age, that doesn't do much for Senshi, who has just the LOOSEST grip on how other races age.

And considering when we see Namari, a dwarf who has spent at least the last few years of her life working in a party with humans in it guess Fallin's age as "possibly 40" it's kind of hard to blame a guy who was raised by dwarfs and then spent pretty much the rest of his life as a dungeon hermit, and definitely spent the last 10 years as such.

So Senshi is very much set up to Not Get Chilchuck, to underestimate him.

But Chilchuck also very much underestimates Senshi, who has spent YEARS hanging out in dungeons, doin' dungeon stuff, in a dungeon full of traps and monsters, with NO help, NO backup, and NO picklock. You don't spend over a decade in a dungeon without some kind of canny.

#dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi meta #rambles #kabru and laios as narrative foils yes but what about chilchuck and senshi

[lgbtlunaverse]

"Marcille hates all of Laios' freak traits but loves them in Falin" is honestly a really good joke but... you guys do know it's a joke right?

It's such a funny one I honestly find it impossible to get mad at even when people mistake it for an actual truth about the characters but JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR

THIS is how marcille reacts when Falin is predictably just as enthusiastic about eating monsters as her brother was.

That is not the face of a woman who thinks this trait is lovely and endearing as long as it's exhibited by the girl she loves. That is the face of a woman who is taking 7d8 psychic damage and yet knows deep in her heart she won't like Falin any less for it.

The way young Marcille reacts to Falin eating berries Marcille can't recognize but Falin knows are safe is pretty similar to how she reacts to eating monsters years later, albeit with more fear than disgust. The difference in her relationships with Laios and Falin isn't just that she's attracted to Falin, it's because the Touden siblings, while similar, are in fact different people. Not just genderswaps of each other.

Also, I think you all already know this, but just to say it: she doesn't actually hate Laios for any of his freak tendencies either. He's one of her best friends. She's just a lot quicker to be outwardly exasperated with him while she's quieter about it with Falin.

#dungeon meshi #falin touden #laios touden #marcille donato #dungeon meshi meta #again I cannot be mad at fanon jokes when they're actually funny #and also marcille absolutely DOES have different standards for the touden siblings #i'd argue the way she more easily argue with laios than falin is a) because falin is better at EXPLAINING her autistic swag #so after the initial freakout marcille can calm down. laios does NOT know how to do this #and b) because she DOES idealize falin. And so she takes this stuff in a 'well not even my beautiful angel darling can be perfect' way #though in the end their autistic swag is also a big part of what she appreciates in both of them #in different ways as i said but the oddities are part of why she's close with both of them!! that doesn't change the exasperation though!

[loriache]

"I've been waiting for ages for somebody to unmask them."

This moment tends to elicit negative reactions in a first read through, and I've got some opinions about why where Kabru is coming from here actually makes a lot of logical sense. So I thought I'd elaborate on that.

I think people hear this and go, "He thinks they must be hiding something because they gave money to someone? What a cynic." Or "he dislikes them because they did charity?? What's wrong with this guy!". And obviously, a lot, a lot is wrong with him. But I think this makes more sense than it seems at first glance! What people evaluating this judgement miss is why Kabru is paying attention to Laios and co to begin with.

Kabru knows of the Touden siblings because (he's a little bit of a stalker-) he is keeping an eye on all the relevant parties in events developing on the island, in order to be able to guide them to his preferred outcome. This includes adventurers because they are the ones actually exploring the dungeon! He's well aware that something as minor as internal tensions between party members could be key to the historical events that are developing. (He would love the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand.)

His desired outcome is that whatever the rewards are of breaking the dungeon's curse, whether that's kingship or the ancient elven secrets of dungeons, are claimed by:

A) a short lived person

B) Someone who will be a good, effective leader and/or use those secrets and the power they carry wisely, with foresight, and to establish a political bloc for short lived people.

The person he can best trust to do this is, of course, himself. But due to his PTSD regarding dungeons and monsters, he's not able to develop the necessary skills to conquer the dungeon. Once he realises this, he starts looking for someone else who he can support to that end.

But most of the adventurers don't have any intentions of conquering the dungeon, don't have the skills, or are unsuitable in other ways. In fact, it seems like some potentially suitable people are the Toudens. There are a lot of good rumours about them going around - they actually seem to have a very positive reputation! That's what Kabru means when he says "unmask".

So when Kabru is observing something like them giving money to an old comrade from their gold-peeling days, he doesn't consider it a problem because "they're giving money to this person who doesn't actually need it" or because they must have some dark secret if they act superficially nice. I think he actually understands this situation and what it implies about Laios (in particular) perfectly well.

Laios and Falin gave money to an old comrade who got injured and couldn't work. That person then healed up but kept taking their money. Then he used the money to start smuggling illicit goods to the island.

The key is that for Kabru, the problem here is the same as with the corpse retrievers - people using the dungeon's resources to fuel dangerous, selfish, or violent pursuits cause problems for the island, attract more criminals and people with motives other than breaking the curse, and increase the chances of the whole situation ending in tragedy.

Kabru is willing to work with the Shadow Lord of the island if it gets him to his goal - he isn't scrupulous - but the criminal element of the island increasing is something he sees as a major issue.

Also, when you're evaluating someone as a candidate for power, riches, secrets, potentially kingship - then being curious about how the money you give to people is going to be used is kind of a relevant trait!

Interpersonally, Kabru's actually very easygoing - I mean, Mickbell isn't exactly an upstanding guy, is he! But Kabru likes him and they get along well. These traits wouldn't be a problem at all in a friend, or a comrade, or someone Kabru was confident he could use. But he can't get a handle on Laios, and Laios is someone who has the potential to be a major player!

On Laios' end, this is the same as with the marriage seeker who joined their party. She kept asking for things and he gave them to her, because he tries to be nice to others. He even gives her money! It's the exact same thing.

That's fine, but it became a problem because he basically wasn't interested in her motives, didn't notice she was trying to manipulate him, and it also didn't occur to him that the other party members would notice or be affected. We can assume the situation with the gold peeler is the same. When Kabru says that "It's not that they're bad people, they just aren't interested in humans," he isn't wrong.

The extent to which this is true of Laios is linked to his autism imo, (because it isn't just disinterest - he genuinely isn't able to notice nonverbal cues that people are lying to him or have ulterior motives) but to a greater or lesser extent I think it's a very common trait. Most people aren't actually that interested in other people who aren't close to them. Kabru is the weird one here. It isn't an issue except as a leader - which is why we see an immediate comparison to the Island's Lord, because that's how Kabru is evaluating them.

And disinterest in/lack of ability with people to the extent Laios exhibits it, it does, actually, make him a worse leader... it's just that as we see in the story, people can help him out. The rest of the party tell him the marriage seeker is taking advantage of him so he tells her he can't give her special treatment anymore. They're pissed and it's a crisis point - he couldn't have recovered their trust without Marcille and Falin - but that's exactly the point. With Marcille and Falin, he was able to recover their trust.

And he has other good traits that make up for it, such as his intelligence, strategic knowledge, open-mindedness and sense of fairplay.

Kabru doesn't disqualify Laios as a candidate based on what he sees about him from afar, though - he still tries very hard to get close to him, obviously hoping that if he manages he can steer Laios to defeat the dungeon and make up for his lack of people-skills in the aftermath. (Which... he does eventually achieve that goal!) He completely fails until the events of the story, so... definitely I think "They just aren't interested in humans" could also partially be a stung reaction to Laios' complete disinterest in him.

Anyway, that's my read on what exactly Kabru's "issue" with Laios is. Obviously, once he does find out what Laios' true nature is like - about his love for monsters - he develops an entirely new set of fears about Laios' priorities. But since Laios kept that a secret until the start of the story, he has no idea of that yet.

Given all that, I think it's interesting that he says that he doesn't think that the Toudens are suitable to defeat the dungeon, and that he's hoping they'll turn out to be the thieves. As some of his few potential candidates, people who he thinks may play a big role in the island's future, you'd think he'd hope they would be good people!

I suppose it's better, in his eyes, because it means that he's involved in something "interesting". They haven't just had their stuff stolen by regular criminals (boring, puts them further away from his goal) - they've been caught up in the beginning stages of "a historic event". The desperate and dwindling group forgetting morals in their quest to retrieve their lost comrade probably appeals to his sense of melodrama. Because he also just... loves drama.

Despite it being "uglier than anything he was expecting", he still pursues Laios as the person he wants to conquer the dungeon pretty much as soon as it becomes clear that he won't be able to do it himself and they are out of time. That's because... well, to be fair, there aren't any other options. And he fits standard A: he's short-lived!

and Kabru still hopes he can fit standard B, too, and be persuaded to use the power he wins for good. No matter how many nightmares he has about Laios, or whether he thinks about killing him. He doubts him, but ultimately he puts his faith in him and seems happy after the manga's ending that he made the right decision.

#dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #dungeon meshi meta #kabru of utaya #laios touden #labru #laios x kabru #dunmeshi #og post #kabru is such a big picture thinker. and he evaluates people more than he judges them imo #the hater jokes are funny but the people he judges most harshly arent laios and co. they're people like the island's lord. #but you don't see that as clearly because he isn't interested in the island's lord. he understands him. finds him contemptible but useful. #whereas laios lives in his brain rent free because he WANTS to understand him but doesnt quite. #even though he sees the elves as a major threat to his ultimate goals and dislikes the way they treat short lived races #he still understands and evaluates mithrun as an individual based on his own merits #he's one of the characters who is least judgemental in that sense because while he's always making judgements and evaluations #he's also constantly revising them whenever he gets more information #my beautiful machiavellian prince <3 #it's genuinely a really laudable way of understanding others imo. #the only problem is that because he's driven towards his goals by his PTSD and survivors guilt #he pushes himself into situations (the dungeon and also interpersonally) that trigger him or even just upset him #without regard for what he authentically wants or his own wellbeing.

[tagasaing]

i have to get this out of the way, re: dungeon meshi discussions

major spoilers ahead, obviously.

you know for a series that focuses so much on platonic and familial relationships it’s weird that dungeon meshi has attracted so much useless ship wars though. the most important driving force in the story is two sibling relationships (laios’s search for falin, thistle’s search for delgal) and one of the central themes is how loving others way too much can lead to your downfall (thistle’s desperate attempt to keep his loved ones leads to his mental state deteriorating so much he starts torturing people he claims to protect, marcille’s fear of losing her friends leads to her being easily manipulated by the main antagonist)

even with regards to falin. thistle wants to bring the ‘brother’ he raised back at all costs, he saw a young human woman as nothing more than a dragon, his tool. marcille wants to bring falin back at all costs, she didn’t care about the repercussions of using monster meat instead of animal meat even though she was an expert at ancient magic and should know why it’s such a dangerous practice.

each and every single one of the major characters has some form of tragedy with their family one way or another: the toudens, marcille and her dad. chilchuck and his wife. senshi’s entire backstory. izutsumi’s hidden desire for a mother. namari’s father. shuro and his family. kabru and his mother(both tallman and elf). mithrun and his brother. thistle and the melinis.

even some of the minor characters: flamela and her dead twin sister. the twins and the floke couple. kuro being the closest mickbell has to a family. etc etc

as someone who has reread this manga several times by now, i wonder if people just… read it once as fast as they could and act like they’re some sort of authority on fan discussion. i’ve seen people brag about reading the entire thing in one sitting as if it’s something to be proud of. this manga isn’t meant to be read that fast, that’s how you get people claiming that laios doesn’t reaaally love falin as much as marcille does.

to these people, laios just gets in the way, as if it wasn’t his idea to go down the dungeon in the first place, it wasn’t him who said his pain doesn’t matter because falin suffered more than him, it wasn’t him who felt immense guilt for leaving falin behind, it wasn’t him who found her skull, it wasn’t him who killed her to save her from her chimera form. i feel like people forget about the ‘too’ part when marcille said “i miss falin too”

marcille knows how much falin and laios love each other. that’s why she asked him if she’s allowed to resurrect her and didn’t act on her own. that’s why when both times a shapeshifting monster copied marcille to trick laios, it was what she looked like at the time she was reviving falin.

as someone who DOES ship farcille, none of the romance is canon. this isn’t meant to be anti-farcille. one of the post-canon comics is about falin gently turning down shuro because she wants to travel the world, “you can’t tie a dragon down” after all. she wants to travel the world and find herself because she doesn’t know who she is outside of marcille and laios. even marcille, who was hoping she’d reject him, tears up because of how beautiful and tragic it was.

there are a lot of ship teases because what author doesn’t like a good ship tease. but to say that dungeon meshi is a romantic love more than it is a story about family(both real and found) is a great misinterpretation of the text.

#delicious in dungeon #dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi spoilers #delicious in dungeon spoilers #dungeon meshi meta

[laikabu]

kabru becomes responsible for holding the kingdom together in its early years as an advisor and then eventually the prime minister, but he doesn’t have a significant presence at all in the myth of the king, devourer of all things horrible, because… he wrote it.

he loves stories, but he also loves embellishing them and cutting out parts he deems insignificant. he wouldn’t think that he held a significant role despite being the kingmaker, the glue that held everything in place.

#dungeon meshi #kabru #dungeon meshi spoilers #dungeon meshi meta

[tofixtheshadows]

So I've been thinking lately about how Mithrun is Kabru's dark mirror (more on that another time- it needs its own post), and I thought it interesting that one of their parallels is that they were both cared for by Milsiril, but in opposite directions. She took Kabru in as her foster after he was orphaned and tried to convince him not to become an adventurer. On the flip side, she helped rehabilitate Mithrun specifically so that he could rejoin the Canaries.

And I kept wondering: why?

For Kabru, obviously she loves him a whole lot- despite any other shortcomings in their relationship, I do believe that.

So I get why she tries to convince him not to go dungeoning, and, failing that, at least prepares him as thoroughly as she can.

But why help Mithrun? She used to hate Mithrun, but after realizing what a secretly twisted person he was, she actually thought of him more positively (oh, Milsiril). So it wasn't as if she held the kind of grudge that might motivate her to make his already-depleted life even more miserable by sending him back to the dungeons. And it wasn't that she felt bad for him either, since she didn't visit Mithrun for the first ~20 years of his recovery.

The Adventurer's Bible says that Utaya was the impetus for Mithrun returning to the Canaries, but Milsiril is the one who made the trip to see him and tell him about it.

Why would Milsiril work so hard to get her old coworker back into fighting fit? Why encourage him to return to such a dangerous lifestyle, when she was the one who chose not to mercy-kill him?

That last panel is such a crazy thing to hint at and then never elaborate on. Without it we could have just thought that Milsiril wanted the Canaries' work to continue without her, even if it seemed out of character. I think some people even assume she's just a natural caretaker as a foster mom and handwave it to include nursing Mithrun too. What could Milsiril's suspicious motives be? What does she gain from Mithrun joining the Canaries that isn't an altruistic desire to see dungeons safely sealed? Feeling a sense of responsibility for the work she left behind isn't an ulterior motive.

My theory is: Milsiril, knowing that Mithrun was empty save for the burning desire to face the demon again, wound him up like a clockwork doll and pointed him back at the dungeons.

Hoping that he'd eliminate the biggest threat to Kabru's life, before it was too late for him.

Milsiril the puppetmaster.

#Dungeon Meshi #Dungeon Meshi meta #Mithrun #Milsiril #Kabru #btw I'm working with the only translations I could find sorry #so keep that in mind #like it just seemed WEIRD to me #that gloomy introverted Milsiril #who left the life of a Canary behind #decided to do this Canary-adjacent work of helping this guy #maybe the queen made her do it because so many people died and they needed more Canaries idk! #but why would anyone pick Milsiril as a life coach? I really think it was her own choice #it's so interesting how we get these hints of a downright sinster Milsiril #I really like the complicated relationship she and Kabru have #struggling to fully humanize him from her elven perspective #but still taking him seriously wrt: his fears over being a monster or his desire to go to a party! #crazy stuff there #everything about Kabru and adjacent to Kabru is insane what a character #musings with Dea

[starstrike]

Mithrun's desire as an SA analogue

TW discussion of SA and detailed breakdown of aesthetics evoking SA. The way I discuss this is vivid in a way that may be triggering, though there is no discussion of actual sexual assault. Just survivor's responses to it.

People relate to Mithrun and see his condition as an analogue for a few different things, like brain injury or depression. And I think all of them are there. But I also see Mithrun's story as an SA analogue, and Ryoko Kui intentionally evokes those aesthetics. I think it's a part of Mithrun's character that a lot of people miss, but I very much consider it text. This is partially inspired by @heird99's post on what makes this scene so disturbing; so check out their post, too :)

So to start off with, the demon invades Mithrun's bed, specifically. There's even a canopy around it, which specifically evokes this idea of personal intrusion; the barrier is being pulled apart without consent or warning. The way the hand reaches towards Mithrun's body from outside of the panel division makes it almost look like the goat stroking over his body. It's an especially creepy visual detail; similarly, the goat's right hand parts into the side of the panel as well. It's literally like it's tearing the page apart; but gently. So gently.

Mithrun is in bed. It is his bed that the demon is intruding on. He's in a position of intimacy. The woman behind him is a facsimile of his "beloved" that he left behind; the woman who, in reality, chose Mithrun's brother. He is in bed with his fantasy lover, who is leaning over him. While this scene isn't explicitly sexual, it is intimate. And it is being invaded. The goat lifts Mithrun gently, who is confused, but not yet struggling.

The erotics of consumption and violence in Ryoko Kui's work(remember that the word 'erotic' can have many different meanings, please) are a... notable part of some of her illustrations. I would say she blurs the lines between all forms of desire: personal, sexual, gustatory and carnal, in her illustrations in order to emphasize the pure desire she wants to work with and evoke to serve her themes. Kui deploys sexual imagery in a lot of places in Dungeon Meshi, and this is one of them.

In this case, horrifically. The goat's assault begins with drooling, licking, and nuzzling. The goat could be enjoying and "playing with" its food. But it can also be interpreted as it "preparing" Mithrun with its tongue as it begins to literally breach Mithrun's body. The goat also invades directly through his clothing; that adds another level of disturbing to me. There's nothing Mithrun can do in this moment of violation. Mithrun is fighting, but he is fighting weakly, trying to grip on and push away when he has no ability or option to. All he can do is beg the goat to stop. And it doesn't care. This all evokes sexual assault.

The sixth panel demonstrates a somewhat sexual position, with Mithrun's thighs spread around the goat's hunched over body. In the next, the goat pulls and holds apart Mithrun's thighs as he nuzzles into him. The way the clothing bunches up looks a bit as if it has been pushed up. It has pinned Mithrun down onto the bed, into Mithrun's soft furs and pillows. It takes a place made to be supernaturally warm and comfortable, and violates it. It's utterly and intimately horrifying. To me, this sequence of positions directly evokes a rape scene. I think Kui did this very explicitly. These references to sexual invasion are part of what makes this scene so disturbing; albeit, to many viewers, subconsciously. It makes my skin crawl.

This is also the moment the goat takes Mithrun's eye. Other than this, the goat seems exceptionally strong, but also... gentle. It holds Mithrun's body tightly, but moves it around slowly. It doesn't need to hurt Mithrun physically. But in that moment, it takes Mithrun's eye. Blood seeps from a wound while an orifice that should not be pierced is penetrated. This moment, the ooze of blood in one place specifically, also evokes rape. That single bit of physical gore is a very powerful bit of imagery to me.

Finally; it is Mithrun's desire that is eaten. After his assault, Mithrun can find no pleasure in things that he once did. He is fully disassociated from his emotions. This is a common response to trauma, especially in the case of SA. It's not uncommon for people to never, or take a long time to, enjoy sex in the same way again; or at all. They might feel like their rapist has robbed them of a desire and pleasure they once had. I think this makes Mithrun's lack of desire a partial analogue for the trauma of sexual assault.

Mithrun's desire for revenge was, supposedly, all that remained. Anger at his assaulter, anger at every being that was like it; though, perhaps not anger. Devotion, in a way. To his cause. I don't know. But the immediate desire to seek revenge is another response to SA. But on to Mithrun's true feelings on the matter.

This is... So incredibly tragic. Mithrun feels used up. Like his best parts have been taken away. Like he's being... tossed aside. This certainly parallels the way assault victims can feel after being left by an abuser. Or the way assault victims feel they might be "ruined" forever for other partners. These are common sentiments for survivors to carry, and need to overcome. In the text, it's almost like Mithrun feels the only being who can desire him is a demon who might "finish devouring" him. That that's his only use. It's worth noting that Mithrun trusted the demon. Mithrun's world was built by the demon, and Mithrun, in that way, was cared for by the demon. I think this reinforces Mithrun's place as a victim.

There's also something to be said about Mithrun as a victim of his own possessive romantic and sexual desire. The mirror shows him his beloved just dining with his brother, and it infuriates him. He doesn't know if the vision is real, nor if she has really chosen his brother as a romantic partner. The goat then creates a whole fantasy world where she loves him. As Mithrun's dungeon deteriorates, she is the only person that continues to exist. Mithrun continues to have control over her. And that is the strongest desire the demon is eating, isn't it? There's something interesting there, but I don't know what to say about it.

In conclusion, I think Mithrun's story is an explicit analogue for sexual assault-- though, certainly, among other things! The way the scene plays out and is composed explicitly references sexual violation and invasion of the body. His condition mirrors common trauma responses to sexual violence. And, at the end, he finally realizes he can recover.

Let's end on a happy Mithrun, after taking the first step on his journey to recovery :) You aren't vegetable scraps Mithrun. But even if you were-- every single thing in this world has value. Even vegetable scraps.

#Mithrun #mithrun dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi #ren rambles #dungeon meshi meta #tag later #I refuse to post at prime time look at my dunmeshi meta boy #tw sa #sa tw #this is literally 1200 words slash 6 pages if I added citations and a proper essay format as well as an introduction to Mithrun's character #and general introduction of the text itself #this could literally be an academic paper #lmao #ren meta #rb this plsss i want ppl to read my essay

[britcision]

I’ll dig it up later for y’all if you like but there’s an extremely funny comic in the Adventurer’s Bible that is definitely tongue-in-cheek funny about half-foots

And it’s the one about why they’re called that, the elves saw their footprints and went “yeah that sounds right”

Chilchuck is explaining it to Laios and then calls it fucking bullshit because “why should we be described relative to someone else you should be called double-foots”

He says

To Laios

The tall-man

Tall relative to who Chilchuck

#delicious in dungeon #dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi meta #like but i dunno how to tell you this but tallmen were named the exact same way #‘taller than us’ from the long lived folks elves dwarves and gnomes #chilchuck #chilchuck tims

[mrenkelherlig]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

i'm on to something

During the party's fight with the griffin, Marcille tries using familiars to chase down the monster and find/rescue Senshi. Through trial and error, she ends up creating an entirely new monster, custom made with the best characteristics from other monsters to achieve a certain goal.

Eventually she comes up with the skyfish, essentially a long tube covered in wings. It's super fragile, in fact it falls apart after a single attack, but it's agile, accurate, and lightning quick.

This isn't the last time we see someone in this story create their own monster! Laios's Ultimate Monster is the best example, a custom made monster created to be more powerful than anything else. And honestly, considering the thought that went into it, I'd be comfortable saying the skyfish is Marcille's "Ultimate Monster".

In fact, what if that's not the last time she used that design?

During Marcille's brief reign as Lord of the Dungeon, she creates a handful of custom monsters to serve her purposes. One in particular is larger, more powerful, and more spectacular than any of the rest.

A long tube, covered in wings.

I think the couatl is Marcille's finalized realization of her ultimate monster! It's very similar in design to the skyfish, but larger, stronger, and more detailed. It fits her aesthetic, and is easily the coolest/most powerful thing she creates.

She and Laios are more similar than she'd probably like to admit.

#is this anything #idk i certainly think it's cool #dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi spoilers #spoilers #marcille donato #the ultimate monster #kinda #skyfish #cryptidposting #dungeon meshi meta

[xan-from-space]

Honestly if any Dungeon Meshi character deserved an expanded role in the series, it should have been Rin. She's the character to me who most feels like her story is incomplete and glossed over...probably the one instance where the manga actually frustrated me with its refusal to engage with her as a character in favor of Kabru.

I mean, the backstory Kui gives her in the extra content is, like all of them, really well thought out, but in the manga itself a lot of the time she kind of just exists as an accessory to Kabru? Like, she's the Girl who Likes Kabru to Establish that Girls Like Kabru...there's a couple moments in the manga where we see hints of a deeper character, but most of her story is relegated to the extra content...which sucks because I think her role in the story and especially her history with the elves is so incredibly important to understanding the wider world.

Because we mostly learn about the elves through the eyes of Kabru, and while Kabru didn't have a great experience with the elves for sure, he was doted on, a golden child. We do learn that Rin was treated terribly by the elves in the manga, but again, we learn it through Kabru's words and it's not really something that's focused on. I think Kabru has genuinely good intentions and cares a lot about humanity, but unconsciously he has a tendency to treat people like pawns in a similar way that the elves do; part of his character arc is learning to be actually genuine with people, but that only actually happens once he's separated from the rest of his party, with people he barely knows. It makes sense for him and the place he's at, but I can't imagine how frustrating that must have been for Rin, who doesn't really have anyone else. She's trapped in an unresolved character arc, left in this limbo space of chasing after someone who just doesn't have the same reliance on her that she has on him.

If I were writing the manga, I would have made her a character of equal importance to Kabru. Rin would balance out his role in the story...she's more pessimistic than him, for good reason, and despite or maybe because of the ease in which he traverses the social and political worlds, in many ways I think she understands the world better than him. I want to see the world from her perspective, to learn more about what her view of the dungeon is and why she's supporting Kabru in his quest to become the next dungeon lord, to see her grapple with her trauma, for her to have to learn to lead the party when Kabru isn't there, for her to come into her own as a character. I also feel like she just would fill out the main cast in a really satisfying way...she could easily be a narrative foil for so many characters, Kabru obviously, but also Marcille, Izutsumi (God, think about the potential interaction between Rin and Izutsumi), Thistle maybe, there's probably more if I spent more time thinking about it

Also kind of going on a tangent here but she's sooo ignored on the fandom side. Frankly I think that whatever Rin and Kabru have going on is just as interesting if not more so than the relationships between Kabru and Laios and between Kabru and Mithrun, but I don't think I've seen a single post or art piece on this website where she's present in his life at all (or even not present in an intentional way that would serve her character.) To be clear I'm not saying that I ship them or whatever (kind of hate that word tbh) or think they should end up in a romantic relationship (I really do not think they should end up in a romantic relationship). But like. Come on. They're so important to each other's characters and she can't just be written out of his story.

#second choice for character I think deserved more time is yaad #rin dungeon meshi #rinsha fana #kabru of utaya #rinsha you deserve the world I would treat you better than him #dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi spoilers #dungeon meshi meta #dunmeshi

[weathertheraine]

ok yeah this post by @hyunota has me crazy now about this because at first I thought 'it'll fade because they ate all the monster parts, that was the point right?' but then remembered the little dragon. that she picks up in that field and carries with her by choice. and of course her feathers and fangs but... that little dragon. she takes it with her on purpose, whether she fully understands what it means at the time or not. she has a little dragon inside her forever, and everything about the imagery of that chapter tells us she cradles and takes care of it.

idk. it has me thinking about the realisation that the curse is affecting her, that she has this part inside her that is repelled from her brother, and still loving and accepting that part of herself. accepting it deliberately.

there's also the knowlegde that that same part of her is one that laios loves. i wonder if she'd even take comfort in knowing that she's keeping a monster close to him (herself). defying the curse in a small way.

#made my own post bc i wasnt sure if theyd want these ramblings in their notes #anyway i wanna write a fic about this #dungeon meshi meta #falin touden #laios touden #touden siblings #dungeon meshi spoilers #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #red dragon

[twyrrinren]

Canon Dungeon Meshi ships

1. Chilchuck/his wife

2. Maizuru/Shuro's father

3. Mr./Mrs. Flokes

3. Daya/her fiance

4. Otta/half-foot women

5. Totan/his wife

6. Delgal/his wife

7. Zon/his 4 wives

8. the Winged Lion/dungeon lords

One-sided love

1. Shuro - Falin

2. Hien - Shuro

3. Rin - Kabru

4. Laios - monsters

"Friends"

1. Marcille & Falin

#dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi spoilers #also #close friends: fleki & lycion #izutsumi is inutade's friend #want to be friends: laios - shuro; kabru - laios #dungeon meshi meta

[lgbtlunaverse]

This page from the adventurer's bible makes me want to cry

Like basically any neurodivergent dungeon meshi fan, I see a lot of myself in the Touden siblings. But I was blindsided by just how much I suddenly related to Falin in this little comic from the adventure bible's complete version.

It's about the Touden siblings' differing relationships with their parents, and why Laios still holds their treatment of Falin against them, while Falin herself doesn't.

We know that Falin was isolated and ostraziced by their village after she saved Laios from a ghost, displaying her uncanny affinity for magic. Her parents, instead of defending her, sent her away, which angered Laios so much he ran way himself before Falin even left for magic school, hoping to make a living so he and Falin could live together alone.

He tells Marcile this, but when she goes to Falin, she says she sees things differently. Her father sent her to magic school to protect her form the rest of the village without having to cause a conflict. He didn't explain that, and we actually see her burst into tears when he says it.

But, well... Laios was gone for a year before Falin went to magic school, and everyone else in the village avoided her. The understanding Falin has with her parents to me looks like one borne out of necessity, she literally didn't have anyone else to talk to.

And this is where we get to the page that made me want to cry

Like I said, I relate to the Toudens because I'm neurodivergent myself. that feeling of suddenly realizing you're disliked, but not knowing what you did wrong or what you should have done instead? Yeah... that's one I recognize.

When I was around 9 years old, the same age Falin is in this comic, a bunch of kids in my class decided to make a "game" where you lost if you touched me. It was basically the 'cheese-touch' from diary of a wimpy kid, except I always had it and couldn't pass it along. They'd pretend I was poisonous or disgusting and run away from me screaming or gagging. The point was to make fun of me. But my autistic little 9 year old ass thought "Oh I get it! It's tag but I'm always it!" So I... played along. Running at a boy and having him fall on the ground screaming in fake pain because you tapped him is, in isolation, pretty funny.

It wasn't until months into the "game" that I realized it was meant to be meanspirited. That the reason I was the one who was always 'it' wasn't an arbritrary rule but the whole point. Because I was weird and gross. I wasn't in on the joke, I was the punchline.

Falin may have come to understand her parents' intentions, but she didn't always. The adventure bible actually tells us that she at first didn't even notice that the rest of their village disliked her. She clearly knows now, but she had to be told. So when her mom tried to exorcise her, she just saw it as an activity she got to do with a mother she usually didn't get to spend much time with because of her poor health. It's only Laios who notices something is wrong.

(Sidenote, Laios being hyper-aware of people's poor attitudes towards Falin but completely blindsided when he's in the same spot, like with Toshiro, is also very relatable as an eldest sibling)

It probably also took Falin months, until after her brother had left and she had no one but her parents, to realize why her mother had been doing all those things.

And I know they're not the same. Even misguidedly, Falin's mom was trying to help her, not make fun of her like those boys in my class. (Though, as a queer person who also cares a lot about the queercoding in Falin's storyline, a parent trying to 'exorcise' their child of a fundamental part of them the parent thinks is evil or corruptive? yeah... that's not perfectly wholesome)

But do you know what I did, when I finally figured out the game was always meant to make fun of me?

To me, it looked like I had a choice.

See, those boys eventually figured out I didn't understand that they were being mean to me. I'd laugh every time I managed to catch one of them, I was visibly having fun. And while it no doubt only made me more of a weirdo in their eyes, they never informed me that I shouldn't be enjoying myself. That the point was for me to feel hurt.

So now that I did know, I had a choice. I could either get upset, and let the insult land as it was supposed to. That wouldn't stop them, because making fun of me was the original goal. Or I could ignore it and go on as usual. They had already accepted that I didn't get it, and they weren't gona stop me from having fun, so why should I?

And the thing is that I had... one friend, in that whole class. One person who actually liked talking to me and hanging out with me. I was lonely. And the 'game' provided me with another social interaction, mean-spirited as it was, that I desperately needed. And it was so delightfully simple. Navigating actual friendships as a kid with autism and adhd was so fucking complicated, and I'd never know when I might break an inivisble rule. But I knew the rules to the game perfectly!

Sometimes, if I was chasing one of them, the others would trap him and hold him down so I could tap him. In those moments it actually did kind of feel like I was playing with them, rather than against them. And it didn't change much, they didnt start actually liking me. But they were willing to roll with the fact that I wasn't upset, and I took advantage of that because I needed to.

So you can look at Falin seeing the best in her parents as her being naïve, but I look at this page and I see myself, at first unable to differentiate between playing and being made fun of. And then later, when I did see the difference, deciding not to get mad about it because that'd mean losing that social interaction, and I couldn't afford to.

Like I said, Falin probably first realized this in the year she spent with her brother gone, and everyone else avoiding her like the plague. If she refused to talk to her parents, like Laios did, she'd have no one left.

I see a lot of people relating to the fight between Laios and Toshiro. that frustration when you realize someone you thougth was your friend actually hates you, and they never said anything, never gave you a chance to fix it because you had no idea that you were even doing something wrong! And I can see that, too. But sometimes, when people don't fully hate you, it feels better to go along with the pretending. Because adressing it won't fix it. Because the problem isn't a specific behaviour, it's you. And if they're willing to tolerate you, despite the fact that it's you, then you'll take it. Because other people do hate you, so this is the best you'll get.

#dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi meta #falin touden #laios touden #neurodivegent #autism #adhd #long post #this one got REAL personal oops

[loriache]

Laios & "Chil"

Excuse the bad photo. But basically, this tidbit from the Adventurers' Bible says that "Only people are very close to an individual call them by their first name on its own."

So in other words, only someone very close to Chilchuck would call him "Chil".

Well, something I noticed...

Laios can be oblivious about names, but he doesn't call him this before [EDIT - he does! briefly when trying to snap Chilchuck out of the mermaids' song. thanks to people in the tags and replies pointing this out :) ] - and this is right after this scene:

where Chilchuck confesses to caring about him (& the others. but also him!) on a personal level. So I do think it's intentional. And Chilchuck clearly isn't objecting! Look at that grin.

This just makes me happy. Despite how he often acts like he doesn't care, of our main party of four, Chilchuck and Laois have known each other the longest, and they are good friends.

It reminds me of this moment from the prequel extra Kui posted on her blog.

He's scolding him, but it's cause he feels awkward in the group when Laios isn't there! Me when the one coworker I'm friends with is late. They're buddies! It's cute!!

#og post #dungeon meshi #dunmeshi #dungeon meshi meta #barely but you know #chilchuck tims #laios touden

[laikabu]

sorry but would you be willing to elaborate on Kabru being a trans allegory? I'm trans myself + a Kabru fan but this never really occurred to me (just thought people made him trans since it's cool)

the whole thing with milsiril and all the doll imagery associated with her as symbolism of how she sees him as a doll she wants to keep and take care of is something a lot of transmascs can relate to. even though he loves her, he does NOT want to go back home to live with her again.

also him needing to mask and adapt his personality to certain people can mean a LOT of things, but you can visualize that a stealth trans guy would want to do this sort of thing for safety reasons

and to the shallower, surface level visual stuff:

he looked very feminine as a child and wore a dress. elf males can wear skirts/dresses, but you can infer that he didn’t like wearing one as you see him wearing shorts as an older child

he’s 170cm(average tallman female height) of course you can say “that doesn’t mean anything” but it’s a funny coincidence, don’t think too much about it.

okay this is just me hypothesizing through the existing text:

you can assume that elves view tallmen as inherently masculine the way dwarves see them as inherently feminine as marcille feels like the actors for the tallman adaptation of the daltian clan don’t fit elf beauty standards, so he didn’t have trouble being seen as a boy while living with milsiril

he spent four years living independently before the story starts. i’m sure he’d have access to masculinizing medicine during that time

of course, this all can be applied to other parts of his character, but there’s nothing that contradicts this headcanon. an allegory doesn’t always have to be intentional after all, but seeing how ryoko kui has made one-shot manga about unambiguously transgender/genderqueer characters, it’s really not impossible to have this reading of him.

obviously, you can still headcanon a character as trans without any “evidence” or even if it’s contradictory with their backstory, but it’s neat how all the puzzle pieces fall into place

#kabru #ask #dungeon meshi #okay i’ll put it in the tag in case someone else has the same question #dungeon meshi meta

[searchingforserendipity25]

huge shout out to the the new episode of dungeon meshi tho. scariest monster of the week so far imo.

it's not just the mood-switch from hot nymph-like ladies kissing, tho that was vr hot and the effect of their introduction was very enchanting.

but moment the dryads lifted their heads in eerie synchronization and moved their too-long limbs in disjointed fashion, the camera's eye drawing back sharply, something primal clicked. a monster that looks like a human really is the most frighting kind.

which is the point, of course: what counts as monstrous is a matter of language and convenience, not to mention perspective. everyone seeks food the way they can, everyone can be consumed equally. the party themselves are the outsiders intruding on the dryads' ecosystem, they are the inimical intrusion.

the fact that the dryads' trap depends on beguilement, pretending (?) at an interrupted intimacy. female-presenting beings enjoying themselves openly in a natural setting, 'asking' to be interrupted by an intrepid and weary hero - something out of a thousand travelers' accounts and heroic romances, siren-like.

it's not a subtle criticism of the genre. is that so recurrent an idea that it sank into the stones of the dungeon and seeped into the dryads' existence? how did that even develop as a trapping strategy, from an evolutionary point of view of, like, semi-sentient vegetation? very interesting for what it says about the dryads and the dungeon itself. i wonder if their presentation would alter if the people stumble upon them were different.

but the beautiful long limbs jerking with the sudden possibility of violence? viscerally alarming. not human, but convincing enough that it jars. the play on tropes is very fun, and delicious food for thought.

#dungeon meshi spoilers #spoilers #dm spoilers #dungeon meshi meta #dungeon meshi episode 15 #senshi