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wifihunters · 2 years

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not to Dragon Age Preemptively but

there's been so much (valid) worry that da4 isnt going to handle the issues that are inevitable if the game is headed into Tevinter and like? Honestly? I think it comes from the games trying so hard to make everything feel like a devil's advocate moment in defense of roleplay rather than like. An actual choice.

In Origins you could do some absolutely heinous things. You could do some heinous things without realizing! Depending on your origin, your reaction to the templars, Vaughan, Bhelen, etc... most of us probably fucked something up our first playthrough just based on information variation. Still, with few exceptions, there are weighted 'good' options in most areas.

That... felt like good roleplay. The mission was simple (you were fighting an evil zombie dragon. If you really needed to ally with it to feel complete, there was a dlc for that) and how much you wrecked the world on the way to that objective was up to you, but you definitely know when you're doing an evil dao run.

Dragon Age 2 is a game I enjoy, but its a dating simulator on rpg rails. Hawke is doomed to fail, you just pick who you fail on good terms with. It doesn't have a place in this argument because it's the most pessimistic game so far.

Inquisition seemed to try to combine the two but... failed?

Corypheus is the 'archdemon' 2.0, Samson and Calpernia feel like less involved Meredith and Orsino except they're just mutually exclusive. The Inquisitor is Hawke but destined to succeed no matter what.

Every world choice doesn't change your character's morality, it just reskins the setting with thin paint. My wife going to the mages felt shadier than my (purposeful attempt at an evil run?) run with the templars, really for no reason other than making both sides equal. If DAI was your first game (it was my wife's) you didn't feel any ramifications for this other than which 'boss' attacks Haven. I barely noticed Fiona and I knew who she was.

And the thin reskins and 'equality', 'everyone is morally grey', makes it so the developer can't write an actual stance. Every companion and character needs a "true, however---" check in place so they can't overtake the player's moral godhood. If that was the goal, writing things like genocide and slavery, cultural destruction and bodily autonomy.... shouldn't be on the table as plot points. Go smaller or make an animalistic evil god again.

#where's that dude who had to solo awakening bc he did a lawful evil run lmao #he probably liked inquisition #i hope he'll hate da4 #tbh i was hoping we'd KO solas in the first 15 and get something fresh for the rest but uh

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varyathevillain · 6 months

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Sebastian Vael would've been such a better character for the Dragon Age fandom to enjoy if in act 3 instead of the shitty "here, have a Leliana cameo and another proof there's Blood Magic Everywhere in Kirkwall, go fetch!" quest, we had a different one.

Let's say... Hawke has an option of investigating a weird deal between a chantry sister and a Starkhaven diplomat, and during it you uncover that the chantry has been embezzling from Starkhaven's treasury, as well as putting "former chantry members" (read: malleable or outright Chantry puppets) in the ruling circle which is currently holding Starkhaven afloat in absence of Sebastian as their Prince.

If Sebastian is not in the party as you uncover this, you have an option to either tell him about it, or investigate the questline further. If he is, however, in the party as you find the first notice of something being wrong between Chantry and Starkhaven relations, Sebastian will exclaim that this is a mistake, someone posing outside (or within) a Chantry to implicate either Starkhaven royalty, or Grand Cleric Elthina, and reference Sister Petrice. The moment you involve him in the questline, however, he'll be locked in for the investigation missions, and start getting special points in the code, one for each encounter (including the very first one starting the questline), for the final confrontation of the questline. The same happens if you start involving Sebastian at any other point of the questline, but with less and less points available.

As you progress, there would be three more quests to go through, one of which even takes you to either the outskirts of Starkhaven, or to the busy streets of it, allowing 1) to show another city state of Free Marches, 2) where Sebastian comes from, 3) actually be worth your money for the DLC, if ideal DA2 still had him as a DLC companion. Which I still hate with burning passion a decision, same with Javik being DLC in ME3.

The questline has chantry sisters and nobles implicated, Flora Harriman reaching out to Hawke about weird decisions made in Starkhaven politics, resembling what her mother did, and at a second quest there's even a possibility of you uncovering a chantry brother in a contract with a Desire demon. It seems like it all leads up to corruption in the political sphere and stragglers in the Chantry circles, right?

Except. On the final quest. It is revealed that Elthina, in her own handwriting, no forgery as confirmed by any rogue in the party, has forced Grand Cleric of Starkhaven to resign, installed her own puppet (one of the chantry sisters you might see in Act 1) as a new Grand Cleric, all for a bid of "uniting the Free Marches under the Chantry banner". It also implies that Sister Petrice was telling the truth, and that Elthina was, in fact, more involved with the unrest against Qunari than one would believe in the base game (I believe she was involved, but it's not majorly pertaining to this post in particular). There's a letter that implies Lady Harimann was allowed to do what she did, because Elthina believed she'd be able to manipulate Sebastian in favour of the Chantry. It also unveils how many people of Starkhaven were hurt by this. Turns out, a lot.

Then, you can go about this questline ending several ways.

This is where the points counting in the background come into play.

If you did not bring Sebastian alongside you on any of the missions, or if there aren't enough points for you to sway him... Sebastian will claim the evidence as plot against his support of the Chantry and Elthina specifically, and burn the letters in particular, calling them a "bad replica of what sister Petrice tried to do". Elthina, on prodding, feigns innocence, or if you have not talked to Sebastian yet, calls him in to discuss "this silly accusation", which gives +15 rivalry if you're not in a locked relationship with him. He still burns the letters, and accuses you of believing the conspirators, or even being one of them. There are some undertones in Elthina's dialogue to imply she's ready to blackmail you back if you press the matter, and Hawke has no choice but to back off.

If you bring Sebastian along and your relationship with him at this point is so-so, neither a full friendship or a rivalry, you'd need at least 3 points with favourable dialogue, this makes Sebastian question the Chantry, even Elthina. You'd need all 4 points (bringing him from the get go in your party when they rock up to the start of the questline) without going further into discussion for him to buckle. With friendship, you'd need to bring him on at least 2 missions, or 3 with favourable dialogue. With rivalry, however, you need for him to be brought only on one mission with favourable dialogue, the final one, after which he'll even say that "You (Hawke) were right about me needing to step up and rule Starkhaven". On two missions if you want to bicker with him throughout the quests instead.

If you would manage to sway Sebastian by the end, you'd have one final choice: support him in standing up and demanding answers from Elthina, or asking him to forgive her involvement.

Supporting him on Friendship is the simplest, but supporting him on Rivalry ends up in Sebastian switching to Friendship, like with Merrill reversing her Friendship in Mirror Image if you don't give her the Arulin'Holm. This ends up in a calmly voiced, but very angry Sebastian Vael, pure venom in his words, listing how Elthina has abused his trust and his people by using faith in the Chantry, and manipulating a Prince of a sovereign nation for her own means. If you supported him on Rivalry, he'll have additional lines on how you've challenged him to see problems with Chantry and Templar order, as well as to come back to Starkhaven, and outright thank you right in front of Elthina, whose eyes will throw daggers in your direction. At the end of the speech, Sebastian will actually start removing pieces of his armour, them clattering to the floor at Elthina's feet, and walk out alongside you out of the Kirkwall chantry.

However, if you ask him to forgive Elthina, he'll have the biggest rivalry (+30) jump in the game if you aren't in a Friendship, and will briefly lash out at you, saying that complacency with his devotion to the Chantry is what got him and his people into this mess. On Rivalry, it's worse. Instead of a calm but angry and vicious reprimand of Elthina's actions, Sebastian will SCREAM at her, throw evidence in her face, and then scream at you on Rivalry for good measure, about how you can't simply forgive someone who would seek ruin his city, and is actively ruining Kirkwall. How he was blind to Elthina's actions, but sees now that blood magic isn't the rot at the city's heart that is dividing the Circle and Templar order, it's Chantry politicians like Elthina. And instead of armour pieces clattering to the ground, they're thrown at the feet of the Andraste statue, while Sebastian outright declares that if Elthina doesn't cease machinations in Starkhaven, he'll rage war against her, specifically, and everyone who would support her. Then, he storms out, alone.

You can insert either a "there's nothing to talk about" with Elthina afterwards in both endings of this form, or promises of Hawke "never holding a position in this city aside from carrying the Amell name".

After that, you can find Sebastian, clad in a new armour (simple, reminiscent of what Alistair wears in his introduction scene in DAO, only with the Starkhaven symbol emblazoned on an archer chest piece), with a box in his arms, on the steps out of Hightown into Lowtown. He jokes about how his whole life in Kirkwall can, at the same time, be put into a small box like this one, and be something world encompassing. After a dialogue, where he tells you he is going to live in a small hovel in Lowtown, since he doesn't want to even see the chantry building, or talk with nobles who'd gladly eat him and people of Starkhaven alive, until the moment Kirkwall unrest is over, since he wants stability for you and your city as well. Also, he'd rather spend money on his people and those in need, not himself.

If romanced, or with certain persuasion options, you can invite him to live with you. You can still try to invite him with a couple of options, but he'll deny them for various reasons. After that, he'd live near the market; or, if you managed to convince him, in Hawke's mansion.

If in a romance, there's a hot makeout scene in the library which fades to black implying a proper sex scene. If not, he'll have amusing additional scenes with other companions, especially other love interests, with a bit of hostility from Isabela and Anders, and a lot of genuine fun from Fenris and Merrill.

When you talk with him alone (at either Lowtown hovel or at home in the Library), Sebastian discusses, on Friendship, how he is still Andrastian, even if Chantry failed him and his, or on Rivalry how he feels that blind devotion blinded him to Chantry mistakes.

Banter between party members also changes, with one dialogue from Merrill implying that Sebastian is now helping refugees and the poor, Fenris talking about his efforts in making an organisation for former templars/chantry members expelled for one reason or another, Anders being surprised at a late night visit where Sebastian covered in blood (not his) brought him herbs and potion flasks as a peace offering, et cetera. There's still tension over Sebastian belief in the Chant and Andraste, but it's not anymore about him having to perform for the Chantry and his public image.

If you don't complete the quest with this ending, Sebastian Vael still demands Anders to be executed, or he'll wage war. But if you do... he confesses that Anders has asked him to warn as many people in Lowtown and Darktown not to come to the Hightown and chantry, but assumed this would be because of Meredith and Orsino outright fighting in front of Elthina, not this... murder.

He will, however, draw his bow and point an arrow at Anders, saying that this was not the answer to help his cause, and Anders needs to pay now. Hawke can allow him to do that, or step in.

In a so-so relationship, if you choose anything else but "I will execute him myself" or relent to Sebastian's demand and let him shoot Anders? Vael will spit at your feet and leave your party and the conflict, resulting in a very similar ending to his character as in the original DA2, just less anti-mage and pro-Chantry.

However, in a Friendship or Rivalry, it's very easy to convince him to still stay at your side and see it through. With his unknowing help, many innocents of Kirkwall were saved, and now he has to stick around to help as well, and to either see Anders pay for his crimes with work and healing, not redemption through martyr-like murder, or to understand that this, inadvertently, would be every city across Southern Thedas, including Starkhaven, if Chantry dogma supported by Templars will continue murder, physical and emotional, of mages. He'll have additional dialogue depending on whether you're a mage Hawke, or if Bethany died/is in Circle.

In Romance, Sebastian will lower his bow immediately as Hawke steps between. You'll have to mess up really badly in dialogue for him to storm out.

#Varya rambles #Dragon Age #DA2 #Dragon Age 2 #Sebastian Vael #Dragon Age II #text post #Varric's additional dialogue actually becomes more ANGRY with Sebastian if he's moved to Lowtown #and completely VICIOUS if Seb moves in with Hawke on friendship basis #he's like. THAT'S MY BESTIE/WORSTIE!! HISSSSS. he'll probably throw something alike to 'GET OUT OF MY TOWN' at Sebastian #who'll ABSOLUTELY consider that flirting. and on some level? he's so right #anyway. don't mind me. I'm going insane in the middle of DAI replay. it sucks SO BAD!! gimme Seb I actually love him #i also just think that Scottish-coded person in the party being a 'pro Chantry in the government' *stinks* of UK conservative politics #but as someone who's not one in any way shape or form i cannot personally judge how bad is it #...hey anyone up to writing this as a fic or like. outright throwing DA2 act 3 into garbage fire and remaking it with this as a questline?#this version of Sebastian in my brain that I cherish I am kissing on the tip of his nose #gd the Western Approach and just the sheer 'GAME SCENERY GO BIG' sucks so bad. I literally closed the game to write this post instead #long post #btw this way the funniest outcome of Inquisition (or something replacing that game) would be 'Starkhaven declares democracy'#'Varric who's about to be viscount of Kirkwall would you like to be friends and unite the Free Marches in democracy :)'#Varric. visibly seething he didn't realise this is the funniest way to NOT be viscount but also to still have a hand in handling Kirkwall:#'yeah fuck it Choir Boy let's do democratic union of Free Marches and put up a big middle finger to Orlais and others'

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