#im just personally not a fan and i have my own fanon version of her thats how i would've preferred she was written | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

soureggs · 12 days

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I want to say my opinion on the btd gomenne gomenne fan game , i basicly have no leg to stand on but this is just my view on it

Controversial opinion but

I DONT think anyone is wrong realy in this situation,both sides are vaild.

°its very muddy and ppl try to bring in topics i DONT understand????

*I think ppl often forget alot of the Loud minority of gatos fanbase has sorta parasocial relationship with her since at one point gato was very active in her fanbase offten answering questions on the spot and constantly liking fanart and leaving comments, something not alot of creator's do ( i know the creator of sally face interacts with their own fandom too!)

But bc gatos fanbase is so niche the small amount of ppl assum she approves of everylittle thing or knows about every protect/merch ect She doesn't , it apperse to me shes often the last one to hear the news. If even(?)

( somewhat un related but im using this as an example bc its recent) vvvvvvv

// Very recently a merch creator/ seller said that her version of ren was a. l%li-con and there was some ppl who assumed gato was okay with this. She wasn't lol- i mean gato said multiple times kids DONT even exist in the games plot, BUT because gatos so lenient and open to head canons /spins on her characters thoes ppl assume she approved it \\

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Its also very hard when you make a character and then a person starts writing them using their own head canons or having alot of out of character moments

And a STRANGE AMOUNT of thoes ppl thinking its canon or cant get THAT version of your character out of their head/ fan art /wrighting untill eventually its a fanon

Even WHEN a fangame is a perfect (like said fangane) because one person dose it , some ppl with bad intention will use this as an excuse to make a upsetting fangame and wont REALY get in trouble.

Hell even ppl with good intention could do the same and completely miss interpret the characters yk??

Veteran btd fans saw this years ago -

IM NOT SAYING THE FANGAME CREATOR WOULD EVER DO THAT OR ANYTYING WITH BAD INTENTIONS! :0!! There art is grate and im sure they are LOVELY!

But keep that in mind with Everthing i said above how it might be a reasonable personal rule to have in such a small fandom. Especially if she had bad passed experiences

I think ppl misinterpret her words, not out of malice ! Im sure of it! , but (creating your own game based off my work) is much different than

(Creating a game using my characters and or plot or story)

I belive she ment ( you can make your own muderp%rn dating sim) like courten cowboys or lurking for love , lovers trophy , etc etc ! Maybe her wording was a misstranlation ? Or misinterpreted? , im on the spectrum so i have that problem too sometimes ! And Especially since gatos so flexible and vague its easy to missread /gen

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To be Inspired by a work dosent mean to use the characters or plot, just like referencing when drawing ! Example, OFF and undertail was Earthbound inspired but they both dont use any characters ect OVER THE GARDEN WALL Was inspired by Dante's Inferno! But its not the same characters pulled out and used

I hope that helps/gen

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I personaly believe stuff like that , what happened before and even in other fandom is why gato has that particular rule about not wrighting her characters at length. Not wanting to take the risk of someone miss using her characters again! /lh

I think its odd that ppl can Wright about sans undertail doing some weird ass shit and ppl dont scream about how toby fox approves of it . but they do for gato for some reason? ( if you could let me know why pls do ! )

" well ren was giving to gato so its not even hers"

That argument is silly to me, ren was giving as a gift, when you give a present to yourfriend is it yours anymore?? When a person buys an adoptable is it still the sellers?

Its not like gatos shy when saying she didnt creative ren, she was given him and modified him and still lets ppl know she didnt crate him .

Some of them use that as a talking point to say that said fangame creator is fine using that character in particularly as if hes free use, i DONT understand as someone who sells characters /designs(?)

( if you could explain i would appreciate it!)

The fangame devs are very talented the game seems fine from what i hurd! They did take creative liberties but its still very much gatos characters, I think they where respectable with them even in the contex of said game! . But i find it weird that the post says fanart for their fan game is appreciate ( at least in the English post i found prompting it) fan art of a fan game is confusing and i see how some ppl might mix the two up! Know?? like what would even be the tags? 'Sorrysorrybtd?' :0 So i can see how that could be another reason for the rule!

°I acknowledge and am so grateful that the artist. And devs worked so hard on the game and assets , im sure alot of ppl are as well! And im 100% sure it wasn't their intention to upset gato or anyone in that matter at all!

they are NoT obligated to apologize, maybe not make a second game out of respect(?) But thats their prerogative! They can do it , they wield the power yk?

BUT HARASSING ANY OF THE DEVS INVOLVED IS SO so so WEIRD???????

And making dramatic posts about it as well - it just rubs me the wrong way. Especialy using this as a opportunity to disrespect gato and ONE of her only rules she has for this very odd ( positive) fanbase. its kinda a little silly in my opinion . NOT to mention harassing the other game devs - this might make them not want to make any other games at all in the future ! D:

Please know i dont mean anything in this post to be upseting or malicious in anyway, i honestly think no one this fangane drama had any bad intentions or would do anything to upset anyone on purpose! I know its very high tension. And i would be upset too if a fangame i worked SO hard on with characters i love was met with disapprove instead of praise. And this is to say -this could have ben done better on gatos part. Thos could've ben done in privet imp

BUT im not gato , im not the other devs. im not in the positions to say ' i would've done this' bc ive never ben in that position, ive never had to deal with anything like this. So i wouldnt know what ild do in that moment ! And i think alot of ppl also forget that with all devs involved

We are all vary passonat in this fandom. But please dont start burnning bridge's over this! :'3 this fandom is already so devided due to all of our strong personal opinions it dosent realy need to be a. ' pick your side ' thing i dont think..

I am relatively new to the fandom, so i DONT know much about the past dramas srounding it, so if yall have anything youll like to say or add or educate me on PLEASS let me know and i will retract any of thoes statements !

#i had like 4 ppl read this for me #im actually going insane #this gives me so much anxiety #btd 2 #btd #tpof

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ryzies-ralley · 9 months

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YOU HAVE AUS?!?! THAT'S SO COOL!!!! WHAT ARE THEY!!!!!

IM SO GLAD SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED HOLY SHIT YES

I have one for about every Fandom i join, so it'd be hard to talk about all of them. but here's like 2/14(?)of my most worked on AUs (That don't have an Ask blog).

(AU's Undercut this got super long im so sorry-)

UNDERTALE: 2 PLAYER MODE

The 2 Player AU is one of my OLDEST AU's I've had, dating back to at least 2017? note, Its changed a lot over time and still might so.

The Concept is Essentially After Frisk plays threw a version of Undertale that is at their own fingertips & eventually, gets bored. Deciding to change course of the timeline & create a new starting point they share power over the Timeline with Flowey (this doesn't mean they share a soul, more so Determination & Stats), Which Sparing the lore dump eventually creates a new starting point/Save file & a new timeline with code to decompile.

this has probably been done to death but pbbtbgfncn I like writing depth to Flowey & giving Frisk their own personality

It features a lot more than just that including many personal head cannons, Theories & Continuing Arc interpretations. It's probably my second favorite AU I have (First is a We Bare Bears AU), despite being very simple with its arcs.

Hence why as much as I want to make this now, it'll have to wait so I can grow more as a creator & make it as best as it can be.

It may however be getting a short comic eventually that is the context behind this ^ drawing. Anyway ask me more about this AU though pleas-

MY LITTLE PONY: FRIENDSHIP IS FRANTIC

th-this was an au.. that started out with such a simple concept.

then it got so fucking Long & Complex with its lore- to the point i accidentally rewrote the entire show. I don't even dislike the show the only major story flaw I hated was the Grogar Twi-

Basically the Concept of this AU is about 2 things now; Everyone is based off Different Fan Works/Fandom Ideas within the MLP Fandom & it acts as a In between from the show - The last Problem (Also sometimes i joke that this au is just MLP but 13+)

Examples:

Flutter shy has a Shed for y'know. venting aggressions

Pinkie Has The Same Backstory as in Friendship is Witchcraft

That's all I'm going to say about this au, it's never getting an ask blog/Public lore dumps ever aside from this cause I don't want to deal with All the lore I made for this. I might post art i do for it though.

Twilight's Based Off the common fanon Idea of her not coming to terms with her immortality & Alicorn hood

Starlight Glimmer wasn't fucking reformed in one epis-

I was going to talk about a third Clone High AU but I talk too much so-

#pineart🍍#frisk undertale #flowey the flower #river person #undertale #Undertale AU #undertale fanart #mlp fim #Twilight Sparkle #rarity #fluttershy #applejack #rainbow dash #pinkie Pie #spike #sunset shimmer #starlight glimmer

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themetallicnemesis · 1 year

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for the ask thing, whichever version of sun wukong you enjoy most

Hmmm to be completly honest im not sure which is the version i enjoy the most, like most wukongs to me are all different brands of a pretty cool guy so it's a bit hard to choose 🤔, so i think i'm just gonna answer for the Lego Wukong and the Jttw Wukong because those are the two i post about and think about the most:

Jttw Sun Wukong:

-How i feel about this character: He's a very complex character, and i like him a lot. Like, i'm bad at putting it exactly into words but even during moments of the story where he's doing wrong, he's still incredibly easy to sympathize with because you can kinda just see where he's coming from you know? He's a guy with a lot of layers that can't really be described as just a "Silly funny monkey" or "impulsive violent fiend" or anything of the sort, because the thing about trying to fit Swk into any kind of labels is that it's pretty much a fruitless task and i love that about him lol. I'm bad with words but yeah all that just makes him feel so real to me, and it's neat to see how different adaptations focus on certain aspects of his personality and each end up feeling a bit different from eachother as a result!

-All the people i ship romantically with this character: I love the Swk/Bull King/Princess Iron Fan dynamic and it's usually the ship i think about the most when it comes to him. And even though i usually see the pilgrims mostly in a platonic light, i also like Zhu Bajie/Swk cause they do have a hell of a fun dynamic. Guess Erlang can also fit in here.

-My non-romantic OTP for this character: Ao Lie. Because they kept calling him Little Dragon when he first appeared on the book i ended up with the image of him in my mind as a very young adult when compared to the other pilgrims. I can see him and Wukong having a very baby sibling and oldest sibling dynamic, and Wukong absolutly plays favorites when it comes to the pilgrims. The favorite is the horse

-My unpopular opnion about this character: Hmmm not really sure if i have one?

-One thing i wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: Kinda wish there were more moments where Tang Sanzang was like, you know more decent to him? Just wish they had more nice moments with eachother, because like if Sanzang was a person that actually bonded with him and had his own nice moments as well maybe it would make me more invested on the moments Wukong has to protect him. You know, making it feel as the story goes on that he's starting to protect him less because it's his duty and more because that's a person he genuily has come to care about.

Okay so now the lego man

Lego Wukong:

-How i feel about this character: I feel like both canon and fanon lately has been way too harsh to him and i just want him to have nice things. I deal with that by mostly ignoring the majority of the fandom and just enjoying it with my friends 👍. He's a funny lego man who's going through way more horrors than he should be going through at every single second of his existence. Im holding him gently in my hands and giving him a break

-All the people i ship romantically with this character: I dont think he's a very romance focused guy but i like Swk/Tang/Chef Zhu, they're cute together and Xiaotian can get as many dads as he wants. I also see him and Princess Iron Fan + DBK as exes

-My non-romantic OTP for this character: Xiaojiao. I like thinking that post season 3, after he makes an genuine effort to connect more with Xiaotian's friends, the two of them can actually be really great friends. Just getting to know and spend some time with his great niece :] i can see her introducing him to all sorts of different sleepover games. I also think that even though she and Ao Lie have their differences she still reminds him a lot of him

-My unpopular opnion about this character: Everyone including canon is being too harsh on him, like just have this man have nice things for once. Everyone complains about how he "never tells anyone anything" but how do you expect him to tell anything when hes constantly whisked away by the plot?? Guy only had a single episode on S4 before being whisked away, guy only had 10 fucking minutes of screentime do you really think 10 minutes is enough to tell everyone about all his enemies and traumas??? My second unpopular opnion is Sh#dowp#ach is the bane of my existence.

-One thing i wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: Let him actually be friends with the rest of the gang, let him have some screentime hanging out with them!! I think the show would have really benefited from going back to the monster of the week format from season 1 to that, like imagine just having some casual fun episodes but this time Wukong is shown on the noodle shop too!! Guy doesn't even need to be a main focus of the episode even just simple stuff like getting shown some baby monkey videos by Xiaojiao, or talking with Tang about how different parts of the journey actually were like, just you know stuff that makes him feel like part of the gang :].

(Another thing that i fucking wish is my self-fufilling au about Ao Lie actually being still alive all this time but had gotten himself stuck in the scroll, and now that he's out and both of them know the other is not fucking dead now, they can just reunite and be friends again. Does my au have a lot of plot holes? Yes it does, but just let the monkey have this one single win. He deserves to have one of his friends still alive fgdkbdnsbd)

#ask game #lille rambles #monkie kid spoilers #because yeah i did end up touching a bit on season 4 stuff #sun wukong

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haejjoon · 1 year

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Hi hi i read through all of your character analysis and i completly agree with most of the stuff. Like i really love these guys but atlus did some of them so dirty???

Like i LOVE morgana, but like everyone i really hate his whole arc during the okumura arc. And it pisses me of so so much cuz i know that that whole thing was stupid and morgana shouldve AT LEAST apologized to my guy ryuji but still i love my little furball of a friend. And then i get so sad every time i watch a playthrough and most of the players dont like morgana. Like i absolutely get where they come from but it still makes me sad. I think i just got really attached to his snarky commentary through my day to day life and him telling me to GO TO BED while other people just got really annoyed by it. But you are absolutely right that the writers shouldve just picked the story for morgana and stuck to it cuz it really is just all over the place... but still i cant keep from loving him (maybe it also got somewhat to do with de fanon version of him)

COMPLETLY different thing, but with all the characters we have been talking about that got done dirty, WHY does ann have like the most compelling arc about going against a f ing RAPIST, standing up for herself and just overall giving a big ass fuck you to everyone seeing her as only a object of sex appeal, and then the IMMEDIATE next arc goes "haha you want to unwillingly pose NUDE for some random guy? Haha nevermind you dont get a choice its either this or nothing else" like WHAT??? At least let her have her own say in this??? And then the rest of the game keeps doing this by giving her and ryuji constant scenes of him making eyes at her... I just kinda ignored all that. I think its really sad that everytime these scenes happen in japanese media i got to roll my eyes and think okay thats the required fan service out of the way lets get on with ANYTHING else. But thats the way it is i guess

Sorry to just put all of this here i was getting really passionate about how i feel about some of these characters reading all your (very based) analysis haha. I dont really got any good analysis for you but boy do i have FEELINGS

absolutely understand why you like morgana so much!! snarky characters always have a special place in my heart. for me personally morgana wasn't as snarky as he was just straight up mean sometimes, but that's just a matter of perspective. ur so valid

hard agree with ur grievances about ann. the dichotomy of "im my own person and i wont stand by when im harassed" vs "h-he wants me to pose NUDE?!?? okay... only because I Have To..." like girl no you don't have to. we can figure it out. yusuke couldnt even press charges back there anyway, what was he gna tell the police??? "i let these three teenagers in of my Own Accord, officer, and they started questioning me about my very abusive father figure and i didnt like it so i decided to call you to kick them out"??? it was such a non issue. atlus pls.

#ann takamaki #morgana persona 5

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the-s1lly-corner · 1 year

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Creepypasta au ramblings

Including some ideas, headcannons, potential plot stuff, ect ect

Gotta get the brain juices flowing and written down somewhere

Okay so. Admittedly, I haven't really been working on the au that much, due to my hyper fixiation on the owl house taking up my brain. And that'll likely still be the case with the upcoming finale so.. yeah!

Anyways, with what I have now;

I already know this is going to be a written collection of various connected stories; as opposed to a comic <\3

If my experience with making comics in the past says anything to me, is that it'll crash and burn before any of the juicy stuff happens.. and I'll get burnt out incredibly fast

Only downside to sticking to a written format is that a lot of these characters have redesighs <\3

Not big ones, most carry their basic look that just about everyone knows

Save for Kagekao and Laughing Jill

Good news is, Kagekao, as of now, doesn't have a role.. yet.. maybe.. again, I'm still figuring out the overarching story

Bad news: Laughing Jill is actually a huge roll in one of the side plots (more on that later). She still holds the same basic design elements as her canon design has: black and white clown gal

Only difference between the real design and my take is that Laughing Jill is a funky ragdoll; and she's small because.. yk, she's a doll. Can literally fit inside a decent sized backpack (again, will elaborate on this later)

Though of course I suppose I could just

Describe her as small

(I'm dumb and writing this as I think)

Moving on

I also want to do different plots and side things that all either connect to larger story, or show different perspectives and such; maybe each chapter switching from one characters POV to another

And I already have a long term plot! For... two specific characters

I want there to be a side thing where Jane is trying to hunt down Jeff and put an end to him for

Well

You know

Offing her parents

Along the way she stumbles into Jill, and the two team up to find the dude; along with Jane trying to balance her goal and everyday life. Because unlike most of the other characters, she lives a very normal life otherwise... when you don't look at her past. She has a job, she lives in her own apartment, she's gotten her education. Other than gunning for Jeff, she has no interest in taking the lives for others. So with Janes chapters it'll likely follow both settings/sides of her life

Speaking of settings

Locations

I don't know where exactly it would take place; country/town wise.. it may be spread out across different areas since itd be odd if all these creatures and stuff were living in the same place; gotta dispurse them or people will just. Leave the area

Yk?

But as for like

Actual places that the characters will be interacting in will be anywhere from towns, woods, eft ect

And yes

Because this is a mix of fanon and canon

The slender mansion will be in this au

Although probably not in the way most people interpret it; it won't really be a safe house for every creepypasta character buuuuut im still working on the way i should execute it

Probably make it a hotel of sorts; for most characters its not a permanent home. Be it they dont wish to stay, or they arent welcome there

Moving on, Im gonna write masky/tim and hoodie/brian the same way i do in my silly imagines and hc posts; treat the proxy as a separate personality from the person. Each having their own set of morals, behaviors, and memories; not too dissimilar to how MH shows them off IIRC

Though these versions of them are a mix of MH and CRP since I enjoy both renditions, as a fan of both materials. Plus I feel like if this did become something, a few of yall would be upset if i didnt have them... plus theyre fun to write

Speaking of characters that 100% wont be in the au, for various reasons, are:

Ticci Toby: because I just don't really jive with him like i used to, and the character has more or less been ruined for me by others.... though theres a chance he MAY appear, its just HIGHLY unlikely

Clockwork: she just makes me uncomfortable

Off*nderman: do i really need to elaborate on why I'm not adding him?

Really those are the main 3 I have beef with, but

Yeah

Anyways

Yeah idk what else to type but

Hopefully I'll have more ideas cooked up soon

#creepypasta headcanon #creepypasta #crp

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dethbug · 9 months

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FOR THE AMV ASK GAME 😏😏😏 Hot Mess, Everytime We Touch (can be either lickles or loffdensen OR BOTH 😁), and All The Things She Said? :)) 💗💗

HIII MIA ILY HELLO :-] erhh im in a loffdensen mindset today so i will go w him AHH heres a gif of the both of them though ^_^

🍷 HOT MESS :: Excluding your main f/o(s) you already ship with your s/i, is there any other characters from the source that would have a crush/romantic feelings for your s/i? Or, alternately, has your s/i been with anyone else before your f/o(s)?

uhhhh ... mia you already know all about this but uh.......... in my canon magnus and i dated and he just ... is forever obsessed.... just destiny/the prophecy never being in his favor things !!! but in all serious there is so much lore there...like... so. so much. DHFSJH i have a handful of drawings abt it its just none of them are finished...

but yes we met right after he was kicked out of dethklok and he never lets go >_>

🍷 EVERYTIME WE TOUCH :: How would your s/i describe your f/o? How would your f/o describe your s/i?

me describing charles > "Oh lord, where do I begin with that fool. He's silly! Sillier than he'd like to admit, that's one thing I really love about him. You think he's this uptight, business dude, but man. He's got some good impressions under his belt! Like... Facebones. Heh heh. I love that side of him, I love that he can make me laugh so easily. I love everything about him, honestly. The way he insists on doing skincare every morning and night with me, the way he always asks what I'm drawing when he sees me working on something new, the way his hands look. I've got it bad, don't know if it was obvious or anything. Dude's just okay I guess, heh heh."

charles describing me > "There was always something about her, you know...? Ah, the way she looks when she's focused. When she, ah, plays with her lip piercing when she's lost in thought. The way she lights up when she looks at me. I, ah, could... go on. The list is quite endless if I had to name everything I adore about her; But, ah, her fashion and the way she carries herself is a big one. To say she has a knack for enchanting me with every small mannerism would be an embarrassing understatement. I really love her... I love her a lot."

🍷 ALL THE THINGS SHE SAID :: If your character was a part of the original media they’re an insert for, how would the fandom treat them? How would they treat the ship?

in all honesty i think if i was canon in the mtl universe id be hit or miss with fans HDSFHJ unsure how to pinpoint why id think that -- i just think my writing is wayyy too dramatic and self indulgent BUT MAYBE IM WRONG im overly critical maybe people would think im girlboss idk HAJHDS BUT UHH i think people would like loffdensen :-] perhaps !! idk!!! i think its silly and i love a long ass slowburn the tropes like OHH BUT THE ODDS ARE AGAINST THEMMM...OHH ITS UNPROFESSIONAL.... but also like... destiny/the prophecy plays a big factor in it too so its like OOO AAA HDSHJ I DONT KNOW im a crazy person man

........ bonus magnus gif ........ he sucks [i am incredibly emotionally attached to my own fanon version of him]

#ty mia ily #[⛓️] go forth and die #[🐻] mr. roboto #[🐻🤍🦇] do you believe in love #[🚬] revenga #[🗯] asks.txt

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transsexualism-archive · 2 years

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strange new worlds episode 1 onions:

i know so far im riding on the nostalgia wave and i'll probably end up liking the show Less than i do now but . . . this is literally all i ever wanted from a trek show

(well ALL i ever wanted also includes jim but they're not giving him to us for a number of reasons)

on the one hand it feels like they're cramming all the characters want to see into one place but ON THE OTHER HAND !!!!

we finally got to see m'benga im so happy

i really like uhura so far she's so nerdy and enthusiastic which is a welcome change. she's younger in the snw timeline and this is a great way to show it, im excited to see her character develop. (and im so happy we're spared from spuhura even if it means s'pring which actually deserves its own paragraph)

T'PRING MY ABSOLUTE BELOVED she's stunning !!!! the hair the jewelry the outfice she's just as elegant and sophisticated as in tos which is so good to see. idk abt her characterisation yet seeing as she had 2 scenes total in this episode but hhhhhh im not sure if this is my favourite spock/t'pring dynamic ever. ik my opinions are heavily clouded by my existing preferences but i just feel the need to give spock a love interest is... unnecessary. is2g kurtzman is deathly afraid of spock being shipped with m*n there's no other explanation. but yeah i feel like the established relationship takes away a lot from the dynamic, but it also gives opportunity for t'pring to have her own personality and inner conflicts outside of her relationship with spock OR stonn

ORTEGAS??? MA'AM?? i am looking very respectfully . . . i'll be very mad if she's just snw's version of tig notaro's character in dis (snarky butch with a high one liner per minute speed) but she's. very handsome. i desperately want to see more of her

idk about chapel yet and she doesn't really feel Like Chapel to me but <3 . very manic pixie dream girl

THERES AN ANDORIAN FINALLY AN ANDORIAN !!!!! they were in the post credits trailer thing so that probably means they're a significant character!!!! at long last. now all we need is a tellarite

i really don't care for pike's c-ptsd or the whole unavoidable future doomed from the beginning etc etc narrative it's just idk. i know partly it's just a nod to the canon and they had to follow through with dis' bullshit plot but :/ for a main character this is weak motivation

(also im sooooo disappointed by the way pike & spock's dynamic is handled by snw so far give me hero worship !!!! give me mentor figure !!!!! speaking of)

spock.... look how they massacred my boy.... i know it's impossible to satisfy tos/aos fans because it's not The Spock, and im completely biased in this regard, but its just a complete 180 from dis!spock who is literally autistic tormented by vision locked up in an asylum FORCED TO GO ON A UNIVERSE SAVING QUEST BECAUSE DESTINY IS UNAVOIDABLE and snw's straightwashed well adjusted spock. once again this is only the first episode and i might be completely wrong about everything but idk idk . ethan peck is a great actor tho and it's nice to see his interpretation of all the little spock mannerisms. his delivery feels as a kind of in-between between tos and aos!spocks in that he is much less emo than aos but also not the fully established tos!spock who is 100% comfortable in his skin. also the moment on the alien planet where he randomly let out an inhuman (sic!) shriek because he was in a lot of pain and then immediately went back to normal?? what was that about :/

also sam !!!!!!! im so desperate to know how the kirks are doing in this timeline !!!!! i have a very clear characterisation of him in my mind that's 99% fanon but im trying to have an open mind abt him. wheres jim.... how is winona doing....

im probably forgetting soooo much of what i wanted to say but yeah so far i have no trust in kurtzman & goldman and where this show is going to go but it IS exciting for me as you can clearly see from this fucking essay

#IM SO NORMAL ABOUT THIS #star trek strange new worlds #snw spoilers #snw lb #irina talks #ira talks

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lovebecomeshim · 3 years

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hello! your zutara posting today has finally motivated me to ask this question because I came to atla very late(last year, to be specific) and I Love It Very Much but am 1000% out of the loop as far as why what remains of fandom (at least that I've seen among my friends) is so very strongly zutara. I'm not opposed to it per se I just don't really know what has driven it to apparently be such a popular ship? can you help me understand and maybe convert me a little bit?

Hey!! Your ICON! :D I can try but I’m not sure how coherent I’ll be; however I AM sure someone a lot more competent will be willing to add to this. Either way, I’m glad you asked because my plan was to drag down as many people as possible with me.

*smacks the hood of zutara* this baby can fit so much mutual love and support!

This got so long, I’m so sorry. I don’t know how to put it under a cut on mobile and it already got deleted once so I’m scared to mess with it lol. Moving on.

I’m gonna start this with a disclaimer that im on mobile so formatting is tricky and I’m also really new to atla in that I only completed my first watch through in like 2019??? So some of my info is all just based on what I’ve picked up from Discourse 👀 so anyway the sparknotes version: zutara was wildly popular from the beginning. To the point where the atla crew internally disagreed on which ship should be endgame. (Ex. Bryke [showrunners] asked the writers to rewrite The Southern Raiders to make Zuko seem less ideal for Katara than Aang [which failed, depending on who you ask]; the animation team purposefully created a visual parrallel between Oma and Shu in the Cave of Two Lovers and Zuko and Katara in the catacombs under Ba Sing Se in the Crossroads of Destiny; etc.)

The ship was popular enough that Bryke actually chose to display zk fanart at a con for the sole purpose of mocking the fans, but that’s neither here nor there. The entire episode Ember Island Players, while a love letter to/parody of the whole show, was an opportunity to address zutara’s viability as a canon pairing (while, again, mocking zutaras for romanticizing that catacombs scene). Point is! It’s always been popular but with it not being endgame, there’s got to be something that’s given it staying power.

And that’s honestly got to do with three things: their dynamic, thematic cohesion, and potential.

(You know what... you know what, it’s four things. The fourth is they’re so aesthetically pleasing together and individually. Like, they’re just good looking people [specifically when they’re grown but they’re also cute kids] and that absolutely doesn’t hurt) (but it’s not the Point, it’s just nice to point out sometimes)

The dynamic is hard to get into without also looking at the canon pairings, but I think I can do that without unnecessary bashing. It’s just that part of the magic of zutara is really highlighted by what they give to each other that their other relationships don’t.

First off, it’s classic enemies to (would be) lovers. The absolute truest form of it. It’s not too different from how CS started out: a rogue antagonist with a job to do—but no personal vendetta against the future love interest—who is deeply and emotionally invested in his personal storyline (revenge/redemption) with little regard for how it effects other people after his entire life and genuine good nature are marred by suffering, and a fierce warrior girl with a strong moral compass and her own personal investment in stopping him (protect her family and save the world doing it). Obviously frustration and animosity grew between them by the nature of them being on opposing sides, but that just lends itself to the sweetness of their later reconciliation.

The thing is that while they’re wildly different on the surface (he’s a hot-headed prince of a fascist regime who is trying to capture the Avatar to please his father; she’s a nurturing daughter of the chief who is trying to protect and train the Avatar in order to topple his father’s throne) they find out that they have so much more in common both in their experiences and their personalities.

(What follows is an excessive use of the word “both” and I’m sorry about that)(I can edit it. I can do that. That IS an option............)

They both have an innate sense of justice that they are determined to see done (zuko, at the war meeting, sticking up for the Earth Kingdom kid when the guards torment his family, choosing not to steal from the pregnant couple despite his circumstances, abiding by his word to leave the SWT should Aang come willingly, etc.; katara, literally.... at any point). They both have pretty one-track minds at accomplishing certain goals once they’ve put their mind to it, regardless of a lack of support in that endeavor (it goes without saying I guess, but zuko’s entire hunt; katara’s determination to get the earth benders to fight back, her determination to absolutely destroy Pakku until he agrees to teach her, etc.). They both lost their mothers at young ages. Their worlds are war-torn and traumatizing to them both, if in different ways, but that ultimately forces them to grow up too quickly to be wholly independent individuals. They both have issues with their fathers (for WILDLY different reasons, but). They both hold extreme prejudices that they need to learn to overcome (which ties into thematic cohesion)(bit like Lizzie and Darcy in that way but magnified by a million). They’re both extremely emotional and empathetic—which can and often does result in loud outbursts. Katara’s a bit better adjusted and can temper her anger for longer than S1 Zuko can, but they both feel that anger deeply and have no compunctions expressing it (Katara is, usually, more justified, particularly in S1. Again, S1 Zuko is severely maladjusted but at the point when they could’ve feasibly become a couple, he’s so much better off with the way he carries himself). They both struggle with feelings of inferiority in their bending abilities when confronted with prodigal benders like Aang and Azula, but have the work ethic required to double down and become two of the most powerful benders in the three remaining nations. This is a little more minor but it is a parrallel that appeals to some shippers that they both have these alter egos in the Painted Lady (notably fire nation coded) and the Blue Spirit (water tribe coded) that are pretty different from who they are day-to-day and are useful in accomplishing a purpose that they as themselves cannot.

(I’m.... I just realized that this could potentially get very long. Should I have made a slide show with bullet points??????)

Anyway, similar. I know there’s more but there’s literally so much to love about zutara that I’ll drive myself a little crazy trying to compile all the ways they’re similar. (Just gonna say that at this exact moment I went back to add more similarities.... so okay then)

Once they’ve reconciled, we see how all of these things only lend themselves to a deeper intimacy together than they share with literally anyone else. There’s a steady partnership that positions them as the mom/dad of the gaang, while also providing the support necessary to allow the other to not have to carry so much responsibility. A lot of zutaras will point out how zuko is actually depicted doing the more domestic chores that are normally relegated to Katara once he joins the gaang, since the others in the group are two 12-year-olds and sokka. The one that sticks out the most is how he makes tea for the group and then serves them, while Katara is able to just relax with her friends around the fire. Fanon expands upon this a lot to Zuko helping with the laundry or the cooking or whatever else needs doing since he, as a once-refugee, is used to doing his own domestic tasks. Before Zuko joined, Katara was the one mothering everyone, sewing for them, cooking for them, etc. She’s always tending to the needs of the group, and that includes emotionally. She does the emotional labor for the gaang 99% of the time, but when she’s the one falling apart, she’s usually doing it alone and without the comfort that she normally provides for others. Until Zuko. And that’s before they’re even friends.

Which is WHY people romanticize the catacombs of Ba Sing Se so much. Katara is verbally attacking Zuko out of her own righteous anger but also her own prejudice when Zuko, surprisingly, chooses to be vulnerable with her. He’s been on a journey that’s opened his eyes a bit, but he’s never actively chosen to expose the rawest parts of his past to anyone. But for some reason he chooses to do that with Katara of all people. While she’s yelling at him. He sees her humanity, and for once can look past his prejudice and empathize with her. And this time, when she breaks down, she gets to be comforted. Katara normally talks about her mother when she’s trying to explain to someone else that she sees and understands they’re pain, as a form of comfort to them. Here, Zuko uses the exact same tactic. He sees her and he understands. And for zuko? He’s not being shut down. He’s allowed to articulate his pain regarding his mother without being ignored and made to internalize it, and he’s allowed to process how he feels about his scar out loud without being told that he deserved it. And then he lets her touch his scar, something we’ve seen him actively avoid before. He’s completely open to her and she’s completely open to him and all it took was one five minute conversation. She was about to use the little bit of Spirit water that she had, that she was saving for something Important, to heal the scar that still daily causes him pain just because they had, somehow, connected.

Plus there’s the whole parallel to the star-crossed lovers forbidden from one another, a war divides their people—

And then zuko messes up, he regresses, he gets what he wants and he HATES it. And the sense of justice he had as a child has been restored to him against his will and he can’t think of anything he wants to do more than the Right Thing, so he joins team avatar. Before he does that though, we get to see his relationship with Mai, which is where comparison really comes in. And what we see is Zuko, fresh off of his encounter with Katara in the catacombs, trying to be emotionally honest with Mai... and getting shut down and dismissed. Which is just how Mai is and it’s fine, but not for Zuko. Still, he keeps trying, and he keeps getting ignored or scoffed at or yelled at. Which is really a larger symbol for how he doesn’t fit in his old life anymore, but again that’s about thematic cohesion. He tries to articulate his anxieties about returning home, he tries to make romantic gestures, he tries to explain how morally conflicted he’s feeling—and Mai diverts to some kind of physical affection to shut him up and a parting comment that is pretty much always, in essence, “I don’t wanna talk about this.” So they don’t. On the other hand, once zuko and Katara are friends, we see him again emotionally distraught and caught up in his anxieties about facing Iroh, and it’s Katara who comes to him and listens to him and comforts and encourages him.

Similarly, we have Aang clamming up and getting uncomfortable whenever Katara shows any negative emotion, usually resulting in him making excuses or running away. Or, in the case of the Southern Raiders, lecturing her on how she needs to just let go of her anger about her mother’s murder. People have talked this episode to death and usually better than I ever could, so imma... keep it brief. There’s a serious disconnect between Aang and Katara in his ability to empathize with Katara and her needs that has her tamping down her vulnerability and amping up her anger. He tells her that he was able to forgive his people’s genocide and appa’s kidnapping (petnapping? Theft??), which is blatantly not true but also not an entirely equal parrallel to Katara’s situation, and continues making these little remarks throughout the episode. But it’s Zuko that Katara opens up to. It’s with him that she’s able to talk about the most traumatic day of her life, and it’s with him that she’s able to get the closure she needs, cementing their bond as friends and partners. This disagreement between Aang and Katara is then... never resolved. They just never bring it up and hear what the other is saying.

There’s a fic called The Portraits of Ember Island that has a line that so completely sums up the heart of the matter for why people love their dynamic. For context, zuko has woken up early to help Katara with the cooking and they spend the whole time just letting one another talk, and zuko stops to ask why she always just lets him talk. And so she stops to ask why he’s always helping, and it goes as follows:

There’s just... so much mutual support! Trust! Intimacy!! And it just continues like that from the Southern Raiders on, listening to each other, advising each other, watching each other’s backs! And then! Literally saving each other’s lives!! I will never be over the last Agni kai. Not ever. Zuko may have been willing to jump in front of lightning for anyone, but he actually did it for Katara. And in a show, that’s the thing that really matters. It’s a fulfilled trope usually exclusively applied to romantic pairings, and it ended up applying to Zuko and Katara. And then she ran out into the middle of a fight with tunnel vision just to get to him.

Also!! Also Zuko pushing Katara out of the way of the falling rocks at the Western Air Temple!! And Katara catching him as he fell from the war balloon that he fought Azula on!! Before they’re even getting along, they’re the ones reaching for each other. They come to this place of equal ground, as partners, who watch each other’s backs, call each other out but still listen attentively and understand, and provide the support that the other has been sorely lacking up until they knew each other (whether that be from lack of effort or lack of understanding from others, or an unwillingness to accept it for themselves).

Then, trailing along under the surface of this, we see the themes of the show totally embodied by Zuko and Katara as individuals and in their relationship to one another. There’s a YouTuber, sneezyreviews, who has a, like, 2-hour explanation on why she not only loves zutara but also believes that their endgame would’ve actually elevated the writing of atla to new levels particularly because of thematic cohesion and resolved character arcs. It’s the zutara dissertation I never knew I needed, and it’s funny and eloquent and effective, so I’m just going to sum up her section on thematic cohesion to the best of my abilities and then link it for whenever you have the time. And I HIGHLY recommend it, especially if you want a full understanding of what makes zutara so great and gives it such longevity.

Guru pathik has a line that goes something like this: separation is an illusion; things that seem different are just two parts of the same whole. Iroh also tells Zuko something similar: balance and strength are achieved when the different nations come together and influence one another and celebrate what makes them each unique. And this lesson is a massive central arc that both Zuko and Katara go through, moving past a black-and-white, good guys-vs-bad guys, us-vs-them mentality and into a greyer, more nuanced view of the world. Zuko sees the fire nation from an entirely new perspective and while he still loves and hopes for his nations future, he surrenders his blind loyalty to them in exchange for an unflinching loyalty to peace and love. Katara too had to come to terms with the fact that cruel people exist in the earth kingdom and water tribes, while some fire nation citizens are just regular, kind people who also need and deserve to have someone speak on their behalf. And this is honed in directly on how they view each other. They grow in their individual journeys to be open to the humanity in the other and then, once they’ve found that, they’re able to grow more in compassion for others in a beautiful feedback loop. And this is all matched in the symbolism repeatedly and intentionally associated with them in canon: sun and moon, fire and water, yin and yang, Oma and Shu who found love despite their warring nations. Their individual arcs are completed in each other and complement the themes of atla beautifully.

The canon pairs... just don’t. Which, again, is fine. But the very things that give atla longevity and popularity are anchored in zutara. Kat@ang doesn’t accomplish this. They’re... nice. Sweet. Especially when you erase a good portion of their interactions in S3. It could’ve been just a sweet love story. (Personally, the dynamic between toph and aang accomplish the same thing that zutara does, with complementary personalities that fulfill the theme of opposites blending in harmony) M@iko, on the other hand, is less sweet but I think wasn’t even supposed to last. Zuko’s relationship with Mai seems to represent his relationship with his old life as a whole. He can’t be emotionally vulnerable, he’s goaded into abusing his privileges, his agency and opinions aren’t respected. They just don’t have common ground with which to discuss anything that matters, so they don’t. As far as themes, the relationship doesn’t fit with atla. It’s zuko returning to and sticking with what is (on the surface) like him, what’s expected. Fire nation with fire nation. Fluid water bender with the flexible air bender. Like with like, separated from what is different and challenging and complementary.

And all of these things combined of course lead to the potential for the ship. I don’t know how familiar you are with the post-atla canon but... well, miss “I will never turn my back on people who need me”, miss “I don’t want to heal! I want to fight!” ends up living quietly in the SWT as a designated healer who turns a blind eye to the water tribe civil war happening right outside her front door. Which can be fine! People change! Some people just wanna stay inside. I just wanna stay inside! But the potential future for zutara is so much more satisfying, with Katara becoming the most unconventional Fire Lady the uppity old cads who are stuck on the old ways have ever seen. Fanon has her serving as a voice for the other nations within a kingdom at the point of its biggest political upheaval, as a confidante to Zuko who can actually help him while he’s trying to figure out how to move forward and make reparations. They have the opportunity, together, to accomplish what they both have set on their hearts to fight for: positive change that lends itself to harmony and balance. And the steambabies! A popular headcanon is that their firstborn daughter, the crown princess, is actually a waterbender, which causes such an uproar among the people who are adamantly clinging to the old ways. It’s just a future full of potential to be forces for good together, full of trust, intimacy, joy. The exact era of peace and love and balance that zuko announces that he intends to ring in with the start of his reign as Fire Lord is, again, magnified by the very personal zutara relationship. And we love to see it.

tl;dr zutara isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t vibe with it. Some are nostalgic. Some love the canon they grew up with. Some have been disappointed for years. Some just see themselves in other characters and want their happiness instead. Whatever the reason, that’s fine. But for me, I love the way these two, from the moment they give each other a fair chance, are able to lower their walls and prejudices to see the other for the kindred spirits they are. They see each other’s humanity, and their response is to pour out love and support and compassion. I love that they’re a power couple in battle. I love the symbolism and, honestly, soulmatism that colors their every interaction. I love that they embody the whole storyline of atla in their relationship and how it develops, which is notably why their seasonal arcs always culminate in each finale with how they relate to one another. I love that zuko adopting a waterbending move is what actually saves his life and then katara’s. I love the chemistry! And I love the future they could’ve had, instead of the ones they were given.

So, in conclusion: I just think they’re neat and I hope you do too, at least a little bit. Even if it’s just respectfully from a disinterested distance cause you do you. And now here is the video I mentioned. I’m sorry this post got so long and then I gave you an even longer homework assignment, but I can’t recommend it enough. She says it all better than I can.

youtube

#zutara #atla #zutara rant #like really the way the canon relationships were written throughout s3 #it would’ve been more believable for zutara to happen #or at least be hinted at #all of the major issues presented in those relationship were dug up extensively and then... never resolved #and then they just slapped some kisses on a screen and said ‘there all better’#and we just kinda had to say ‘oh ok guess it’s all better then’#this got long I’m sorry #I wrote it all out and then tumblr ate 2/3 of it #which is why it took so long #and what I’ve written now doesn’t even match what I had before #because there’s too much to say about why I love zutara #and the stuff I left out the first time is what came out this time #rip to my original thoughts but this post is different #anyway that’s why this took so long #and I should’ve just made a PowerPoint...#I can do that too if you’d rather not read all of this lol #I won’t be offended #this is incoherent #Alia rambles uselessly #also hoping this doesn’t end up in any wrong tags because I don’t wanna step on toes lol #it’s not anti!! it’s just critical #in a compare/contrast way #I can pinpoint the moment when I started trying to rewrite my points from memory #because everything gets shorter and more succinct #like... I really said all that??? sounds fake and I don’t remember it anyway so here’s the condensed version #with no!! smooth!!! transitions!!!!#also why am I so lazy with proper grammar over text

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ectonurites · 3 years

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can anybody please explain the appeal of tim drake because ive been into the batfamily for a while now and tbh im really confused on why people like his character so much compared to the other robins. like they all have their own thing going on and he just... doesnt?

Have you read his Robin solo? Because if not and you want to try to like him but just don’t understand why people do, that’s what I’d recommend. That and like, Young Justice 1998.

Because Tim definitely... does have his own thing going on. Maybe not in the same way as the others, but like, there’s a reason he has a 183 issue long solo comic that ran for like 16 years: he was fun to read about!

But I will give some more specific thoughts on the subject as a Tim Drake Appreciator™ (this got long im sorry)

The appeal of Tim (especially early on Tim) is kinda the fact that he’s this more normal kid. For a while that is his ‘thing’. He was basically designed to be a self-insert (he definitely became more than that along the way, but from the start he was meant to be relatable) in a different way than how Dick and Jason had been before him.

Like the role of Robin from the start was this way to create a character young readers could identify with more, could see themselves in more. And Dick and Jason did that, but they still had this element to their lives and stories that was more... unattainable for the average reader. Dick was a circus prodigy, Jason was either also a circus prodigy if we remember pre-crisis or if we go with his post-crisis story he’s this street-wise orphaned kid who had a really tough life but still went on to be a hero anyways. Obviously those lives are relatable for some people, but those’re definitely not as broadly recognized as common upbringings especially not by DC trying to market to the ‘average’ kid/young teen.

But the creation of Tim changed the game a bit. Dick and Jason were these aspirations a kid could look to like ‘wow I want to be cool like that!’ but Tim was a Robin designed for kids to look at and go ‘wow, his problems and civilian life are just like mine AND he’s a hero, I want to be cool like that!’, ya know? Tim was... just a clever kid with an average life who managed to connect some dots and had enough drive to want to fix things he saw were a problem, he didn’t have the same kind of heightened drama backstory the others did. The Robins that came after Tim definitely didn’t have this idea of relatability in mind the same way either. Unfortunately Steph’s time as Robin was much more of a marketing ploy than an actual like... decision to make her Robin, so it’s hard to really fit her into this conversation. But Damian from the start was first of all initially created not to be Robin but just as the son of Talia and Bruce back in the 80’s, but when he was later reimagined into the character that would become Robin he had the whole ‘raised by and is the heir to the league of assassins and is the son of batman’ thing going on still. He just was not supposed to be relatable that same way, he was a character designed with different things in mind.

I really think it was more just DC’s 90′s era younger-audience comics in general that tried to push that relatability thing (like in YJ how Cissie even after quitting the team stays a major character as a civilian throughout, and the civilian aspect that’s super present in Bart’s 90s solo too, etc), but later in the 2000’s that idea was definitely pushed to the side in favor of... putting in even more dramatic superhero-y stuff.

And the other thing that’s... such a more normal thing but it actually made him unique here, was that Tim’s dad was still alive until like 2004 (so 15 years into Tim being around as a character). This gave Tim a lot more typical ‘family school girlfriends normal life etc’ problems on top of/in contrast with his superhero problems. These just manifested in very different ways than they could with the other Robins because of that unique situation with a living civilian parent who doesn’t know about hero stuff (until he did find out which lead to that whole Unmasked thing, but there was only the brief time around War Games & Identity Crisis where Jack knew Tim was actively Robin and he was... still alive) Tim also had his life at school expanded way more than most other Robins, like, he had such an extended supporting cast of civilian friends which is a really interesting thing to read about (and the fact that he hasn’t had that stuff since the New 52 I think really hurts his character)

And then related to that loss of his dad... Personally another thing about Tim that really interests me is how a lot of things were more... his choice. if that makes sense. A lot of characters in the Batfamily were struck with tragedy/extreme trauma before they became heroes and that’s what spurred them into this life of becoming heroes. Tim’s situation wasn’t like that at all! When he first got involved in everything during Lonely Place of Dying, the only tragedy he’d experienced was watching Dick’s tragedy happen. Which sure yes traumatic obviously, but that’s not the same as how pretty much all the other Bats had gone through these very personal losses or other sorts of very first-hand personal traumas that served as motivators. Tim didn’t start to experience those things until after he got involved in the hero life, and aside from his Mom’s death which was more of just an unrelated incident (that technically happened before he was officially Robin but it was during his time training to become Robin), pretty much all these other tragedies and things... would not have happened or been experienced by him had he not become Robin.

That’s not me placing blame on him or anything like that, because god no that’s not how that works, but it’s very interesting because from his point of view he definitely feels that guilt because he knows him being Robin played a role in a lot of it (Thinking specifically about in Adventure Comics #3 when Kon even says “I know what guilt does to you” to him like it’s... it’s a thing with him!). His dad was murdered because he was Robin. He only met Steph and started dating her through being Robin, and thus he would not have experienced the loss of his girlfriend dying like that had he not been Robin. Tim met both Conner and Bart through being Robin, and would not have had a personal connection to them when they died otherwise. The whole Bruce’s death thing after Final Crisis, like. I could go on honestly, that was only talking about losses not even his own experiences nearly getting killed, but yeah, all these personal tragedies were experienced by him specifically because he chose to bring himself into this life, which I think in turn plays into how throughout his comics you see him go from having this really optimistic view on things and being really hopeful to seeing him at that low point he reaches by the time of Red Robin. (thinking about that one post that points out how Tim started out in the 90′s as an optimist and Steph a cynic and by the time they were Red Robin and Batgirl in 2009 they had switched outlooks...)

I also think that him having had such a great team book with the original Young Justice can help contribute to people liking him. His friendships with the rest of the core four and that team in general are really compelling. (and that’s something like again when looking at the other Robins, while Dick had the Titans ofc, Jason never really found footing with a team outside of like one mission with the Titans and then We All Know How Damian’s Teen Titans Stuff Went. Steph also only ever really worked with a team outside the batfam on very brief occasions) and even though I’m not as big of a fan of the 2003 Teen Titans run that came after YJ, people who read Young Justice and also that could follow and be attached to those same characters over a pretty decently long period of time.

Idk man, I don’t really have an ultimate point here i’m just rambling. I can definitely understand not seeing the appeal to him right away (honestly i’ve been into Batfam since like 2013/2014 and Tim did not become one of my faves until 2020) especially if like... idk when you say ‘into the batfamily’ that can mean a lot of different things. If you’re reading more like the bigger events with the batfam sure Tim can kinda fade into the bg a bit, if you’re more talking about fanon the fanon version of him is prettyyyyy uhhhhh not really the same as how he was in pre New 52 canon, if you’re mainly reading New 52 era Batfam stuff then that Tim I also don’t understand the appeal of bc thats Not My Boy, if you’re interested in a different member primarily and only familiar with Tim when he shows up in things focused on that other character then it’s easy to not really understand the appeal right away bc he’s more there to support that character rather than shine in his own right.

I think it’s also worth mentioning he’s just not everybody’s cup of tea, and that’s totally fine. Like, these are fictional characters and sometimes you just will vibe with a character and sometimes you won’t! idk if this helped at all or even made sense. but yeah. I just think he’s neat 😌

#Anonymous

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kaissauce · 3 years

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okay, phucker, do it

ok let's do this @rolli-zolli @ninikins

Horrortale: technically an alternate timeline instead of au. after a neutral run where undyne's queen the core malfunctions and food becomes scarce and people resort to eating humans because sans suggested it. Aliza is the protag. latest thing that happened in the ongoing comic was Aliza agreeing to go with Papyrus to solve his last puzzle. as for the appearance of sans he has a HUGE hole on his head and a red eye. he got the hole from undyne when she got his magic eye which was going to be used to power the core. sans didnt die tho and killed the guards holding him down and just took whatever eye was on the ground and used it as a replacement for his magic eye that's powering the core. i quote first words he said after putting the eye in his socket "who the fuck took my phone?". then the magic eye went apeshit and broke the core again. oh and also he made alphys braindead by quite literally scrambling her brain. yeah this au is rough sans hasn't really eaten anything since the core was destroyed since he decided not to eat any humans.

Dusttale: i think this was originally a korean au? basic rundown: too many genocide runs sans goes apeshit and tries to get his Lv up by killing monsters himself man went fuckin insane kills his brother blah blah blah edgy angsty au the ghost of papyrus haunts him n stuff. sans literally just looks the same except he has his hood on and sometimes artists draw him with papyrus's scarf. the cool artists draw him with his hood on and has the hood completely cover his face so u can only see his glowing pupils. although people call him dust sans he's actually named murder sans

Killer: so frickin similar to dusttale except sans goes apeshit because of the human being like "join me lmao". three different outcomes come from this. i think it was 1 sans joins human 2 sans joins human kills human later on 3 kills human or something. friends with color sans who is basically his impulse control. pretty sure his soul's fucked up and Color sans tries to make his soul un-fucked but Nightmare comes in and fucks up the progress. he has white shorts, his eye sockets are constantly pitch black and leaking tar or something also has a weird target thingy on his chest. OH YEAH ALSO HE HAS BEEF WITH UNDERSWAP SANS ALMOST FORGOT. basically swap sans tried to make killer good and then they had a fight, swap sans lost and was on the verge of dying thankfully swap papyrus was able to save him in time i think

Dreamtale: Dream isn't in the drawing but his brother, Nightmare is. Sooo he used to not look all goooy and have tentacles n stuff but then he ate a couple hundred apples and yeah. he's six years old apparently. Nightmare and Dream are supposed to be guardians of a tree that has 500 golden apples and 500 black n goopy apples. the golden aples are positive and the goop ones are negative. you're not supposed to eat either of them cus bad shit happens. Dream and Nightmare live in a village and for whatever reason they're all dicks to Nightmare because ooughh he's the guardian of negativity that's not baller. he also goes apeshit (do u see a pattern here) and eats a goopy apple n then becomes the goop man he is today. he fuckin eats 999 apples jesus christ. and the last one is eaten by Dream because if u eat all 1000 apples u become unstoppable and immortal. so that would be a bad thing if nightmare got the last one. wop wop wop these dude aren't sanses they only have the body of one if that makes sanse.

Error: manlet. he's literally an error and that's why he's like that. also he's technically not a sans now, the redesign for him was so that he could be in the creator's webcomic named Lucidia. Error sans, aka the destroyer of aus, finds aus to be mistakes so he tries to get rid of them. his process of doing this is simple: get the human soul to the void so that they can't reset, destroy the au. he primarily attacks using his strings which can wrap around one's soul and control them. he like some aus like outertale because of how open and empty it is. he likes to be alone and has haphephobia. if u touch him he'll glitch out and possibly crash. he crashes whenever gets overwhelmed. said crashing causes him to shut down and reboot and he's powerless while doing so. he's actually pretty easy to beat if you know how to push his buttons the right way. in the og ask error blog made by his creator Loverofpiggies he kidnaps Swap sans who tries to help Error become a better person. this ends horribly as error leaves Swap sans in the void who then becomes an error aswell due to being alone in the void too long. Error actually regrets doing that to swap sans

Aftertale: OK FUN FACT THE SANS OF THIS AU, WHO'S NICKNAMED "Geno" IS ERROR. aftertale is a comic made by LoverofPiggies it's been SOOOO long since i last read it so i cant really give a good summary. but anyways Geno is trapped in the loading screen with the human and will die if he leaves the loading screen. eventually from being in the loading screen for too long after the events of aftertale he becomes Error.

OOF WOWIE THERE'S SO MUCH TO GO

Underfresh: he's not even a sans either. "Fresh" is a parasite inhabiting a skeleton. his birthday is on 4/20 which is ironic cus he doesn't like drugs. he censors swears. he speaks 90's lingo and dresses like a neon sign. for some reason he has eyebrows and a gold tooth. the glasses he has can change text but normally defaults to "YOLO". he can't feel anything since he has no soul of his own and just latches onto the host's. instead he learns how to act from the people around him. not being able to feel actually bothers him a LOT

Echotale: Aka Gaster sans. uhhh this one was also a comic if i remember correctly. basically Frisk and G!Sans are the only ones in the au and they're trying to find the core to fix the fucked up timeline that they're in but the core keeps changing positions so that sucks.

Swapfell: originally made by Khhoppang who left social media. Started out as an Alphys x Undyne au so only those two were designed but Kh was planning to design more of the characters. before they could people had a field day with the idea of mashing two aus together and SO many people came up with their own designs for sans and papyrus. Khhoppang left social media because they got overwhelmed with all the art reposters and stuff, pretty sad. the appearance of the sans in that au is the purple one with a scythe (i dont think he has a scythe in the og design).

Swapfell Red: so basically this is the swapfell made by people that isn't Khhoppang. community made per se. Sans's appearance changes constantly because as said before many people made many different designs. typically he just looks like Swap sans but with red high heel boots and his color scheme fits underfell

Fellswap (gold): Au made by blackggggum. so swapfell is underswap turned fell, fell swap is underfell swapped it takes a bit to understand that. his appearance is somewhat similar to Swapfell red. He's kind to his friends but if ur his enemy he'll fucking deck you. he's blind in his left eye, the leader of the royal guard, and secretly into dressmaking. fun fact in this au Papyrus has autism

Xtale: uuuuhhhh so Cross is a complicated one. he's part of the royal guard along with papyrus. has beef with xgaster. responsible for the downfall of his au and then Underverse happens and Ink is all "oh cool someone to mess with" and they became friends for a bit then shit hit the fan

Underfell: OOOOO YES UNIRONICALLY ONE OF MY FAVORITES. So Underfell sans is actually a very powerful mf and constantly has his magic eye activated because he has so much magic. This au is also technically an alternate timeline where monsters "lost their humanity" as the creator put it. so basically trust in the underground is scarce. Sans and papyrus, contrary to many interpretations i fucking hate, are actually on good terms (and no sans doesn't call papyrus "boss" the creator said if he does he'd do it ironically and papyrus would hate it). Fun facts he pays Grillby in socks (grillby accepts the socks as payment and wears them), if u make grillby laugh he gives u a jacket that looks like his and it's heavily implied that sans made him laugh because their jackets are similar

Underswap: ah yes another classic that i love as well. originally made by PopcornPr1nce who fled social media because they hated how the majority fandom treated Underswap (Blueberry and Carrot were popular names for the fanon swap papyrus and sans). Swap sans is constantly infantilized by the community which sucks and i hate it so i draw my own very super cool version of him whom i kin because i am also very super cool.

Outertale: mainly an aesthetic au pretty sure there's no comic of it. basically, instead of underground they in space. outer sans dies in underverse after like minutes of screentime lmao

Epictale: a comic made by Yugogeer. the og comic was retconned and the creator loathes the original version and made a reboot that's much better. Sans actually dies very early in it because Yugo hates how Sans is almost always focused on in aus. also the creator hates how meme-y their sans has become (like him saying bruh every single sentence, using a rubber chicken as a weapon, cookies, etc.) he's friends with Cross but not in canon. He has a purple magic eye that makes him immortal and i think only epic gaster could remove it which is how sans was able to be killed when he fought gaster.

Temmietale: it's undertale but everyone is temmie, don't question it

Trainertale: it's undertale but it's Pokemon, don't question it

Dancetale: it's undertale but you dance instead of fight, don't

Mobtale/Mafiatale: im unsure if mobtale and mafiatale are separate or not but they are very similar. basically undertale but mafia it's self explanatory

Undertale: no clue which au is this one, nope not at all/j

Bittytale or whatever idk: so take sans, make him small. boom. never understood this au

THAT BASTARD INK: HOOO BOY SAVED THE WORST FOR LAST. FUCK THIS GUY/j. THIS DUDE. IS THE REASON IM STILL INTO UNDERTALE AUS. I LOVE EM SO MUCH. also technically not a sans. He comes from an unfinished au and ripped his own soul to escape said au and became an outcode. for so long he was just a soulless husk until someone drew him and he got splashed with paint which let him feel. soon he learned to keep the paint in vials so that he can be able to feel 24/7. And then he learned how to create things with a paintbrush and the paint and spent time alone drawing up his own world until a portal appeared and took him to the multiverse. now he encourages artists to keep creating aus. he's the protector of aus in the sense that he keeps other outcodes from disrupting the script of the au, so if it's pacifist and an outcode tries to kill people he'd stop them, if it's genocide and an outcode tried to help them he'd stop them. no matter what he wants the au to stay on script. fun fact the creator of ink and the creator of error never had them interact with each other in canon, that was all the fandom's doing. Contrary to popular belief he's not really considered "good" his alignment is officially "Chaotic neutral". I personally interpret him a lot more chaotic than in canon because it's fun but he's a pretty chill guy actually. he can just be a bit of an ass sometimes. According to the creator of Ink (who is Comyet) his interpretation in Underverse is not canon compliant. one of the biggest canon things that underverse contradicts is Ink deliberately not taking his vials. if he were to do that in canon he'd become a husk again which is the equivalent of him "dying". he was described as a walking corpse by Comyet, without the vials he can't function anymore. Like Error he's pretty easy to beat if you know his weaknesses. also he has fears of empty spaces and being alone

off topic kinda but i very much love how Error and Ink are opposites yet parallel even though they were completely written without the other in mind. Error believes getting rid of aus is getting rid of anomalies. Ink believes people interfering with aus are anomalies. Error loves emptiness, Ink hates emptiness. list goes on it's funky fresh.

also uhhh sanses missing from that drawing that i can name from the top of my head

Seraphim sans, Insans, Dusttrust, He who shall not be named because he's from an 18+ au, Swapswap (yes. that exists), Storyshift, Inverted Fate (very good au i suggest checking it out), Negatale, Oceantale, Template, Pale, Mafiafell, Farmtale

my phone is at 9% y'all are spared from me going on

#long post #ask #ninikins #rolli zolli

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silver-wield · 4 years

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CA on twitter are wild, they attack new fans because according to them, they don’t get the game… they have to start accepting that FFVIIR is not a Bioware game and you can’t choose a love interest, the game is linear and there’s no choice the player make that affects the plot, of course you can ignore Tifa all you want but Cloud still gifts her the flower, calls her beautiful, cares about her and they can't skip that... [1]

I don't get the obsession they have with being canon, its fine shipping CA *i ship a lot of thing that aren’t canon*, what i dont like is how they lie to new fans about it and make fun of them when they don’t see the ‘love at first sight’ on chapter 8, they create this fantasy and get mad when others don’t see it. [2]

My roommate started the game after some crazy CA friend of hers told her the story *their version*, so she was playing with the idea that Aerith was the LI and was really excited about the dynamic between them *it was a lieeee*, and got confused when Tifa was introduced, she didn’t know Tifa existed… oh but she wasn’t disappointed, she fell in love with her at first sight *oh the irony* [3]

Her best comments while playing were ‘yes Cloud Tifa is beautiful’ ‘Tifa talk to me FOREVER please’ ‘why are dementors here?’ ‘he doesn’t care about Aerith!’ ‘Oh no… Aerith is a little annoying’ ‘Aerith im not ditching you please walk faster!’ ‘she’s in love with someone else?!’ ‘Cloud mind is TIFATIFATIFA’ ‘Cloud wants to f*ck Tifa’ ‘omg Tifa just kiss him please!’ ‘HE IS SO THIRSTY’ ‘Barret is the best third wheel!’ ‘YES HUG, NOW KISS’ ‘Why nobody told me about Zack?’ it was amusing af [4]

Now she’s a Cloti fan, lost a friend *they stopped talking to her* and got on a fight with some crazy CA on twitter her exfriend wanted to use so my roommate could get ‘the real plot’… her response was to share some cloti smut fic and art, they didn’t find it funny, her exfriend was like ‘you are a lost cause’ and blocked her. now we share headcanons and theories and we are going to play the next game together (so i guess i have a new friend yay me lol). [5]

That's one way to describe them, and that’s a whole lotta irony them accusing people of not understanding the game when they literally misunderstand or deliberately misinterpret all of the themes and plot points because the only thing they care about is shipping.

I think they just wanna be right. I mean, they don't seem to care about what the characters want unless it aligns with their own beliefs, so being right seems to be the whole basis of all their arguments. Which just proves how arrogant they are.

Love at first sight? In chapter 8 when they go on about it them being reunited after chapter 2? Well, then, this is actually the first moment Cloud saw her

Flailing around with people staring at her. His reaction is this

Wow, check that lightning bolt of love 🤣

And then in chapter 8 he looks at her like this

Kinda disgusted if I'm being blunt about it. Cloud doesn't like people in his personal space and Aerith does that all the time, which is pretty rude tbf.

Not one bit surprised to hear your friend didn't know Tifa existed since to them she's just an npc....that's playable for 15 chapters 🤣

It's always interesting getting new player povs, especially for the older set to see it's not just them having got used to defending canon. New players are seeing through the bullshit and lies those dumdums spew and it's making the fandom a lot more positive. It's really just those toxic dumdums still being really loud and obnoxious, but I'm betting the devs have more shade prepared for part 2 and beyond until they learn to stfu and accept canon or just stfu and go fanon in a corner where we don't have to listen to them anymore lol

#Ship war #For the ship #For the plot

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mystt · 5 years

Text

i have a lot of thoughts about the state of homestuck right now and no one to talk to about it. im so sorry

i really want to love june egbert with all my heart, accept her with open arms!!! i relate so much to the idea of a weird awkward guying going thru a lot of his life feeling like something was wrong, like there was a disconnect between himself and the rest of the world, only to eventually realize that the problem was so deeply rooted that he never even realized that it could BE the problem! all of the art has been amazing, of seeing this just-out trans girl finally ecstactic to be herself and her friends meeting her for the first time all over again. the #juneisreal party on twitter yesterday was the most joyous and connected ive seen the homestuck fandom be for a long time!! but, because this is homestuck, i dont think everything about this situation is all sunshine and rainbows, not in the longterm anyway.....

frankly, a lot of ppl aren’t too happy about this, and they have every right to feel that way. i can sympathize with those people because tbh i wasn’t a huge fan of roxy being transmasc in the epilogues (to be fair, theyve grown a lot on me now that ive had some time to think about it / see content involving them)! john has been an established character for a long time, someone that a lot of ppl have grown a very deep and personal connection with! its totally possible that someone read homestuck, interpreted john’s character in a very similar way to i just did, and come at the totally opposite outcome! maybe john is actually a trans guy and has a lot of trepidation navigating sexuality and gender because of it. the point is that all of it is valid, and as long as everyone respects eachother’s headcanons we’ll all be fine and dandy, right?

well, with hussie making her ‘real,’ the fandom dynamic around june (and roxy) content will inevitably change. the letter that hussie wrote for the epilogue is a bunch of garbage but it basically boils down to the epilogues not really being an epilogue but an on/off ramp to whatever homestuck ends up being in the future. this all but guarantees more june/transmasc roxy content, which im totally down for, but will that content be as ‘dubiously canon’ as the epilogues were? and if not, what happens then?

are we supposed to believe that basically all homestuck content from this point on is al-a-carte, where each reader is able to pick and choose what is and isn’t canon? we were already doing that, but that’s the fandom’s job! call me crazy but there has to be some separation between fanon and canon! otherwise, you get complete mob-rule anarchy, which we’ve already seen wrt roxy and june!

homestuck is in a lose-lose situation with its characters at this point. the core appeal of the WHOLE DAMN COMIC is that all of its characters have very defined personalities and very amorphous everything else. homestuck is so everlasting because every reader comes out of it with their own permutations of each character in their head.....almost like.....a headcanon, u could call it!

but at the same time, homestuck has to have more ~representation~ in its cast nowadays. its just the trend that all media is following as people demand to see more of themselves reflected in the things they enjoy. that is absolutely valid in most forms of media where characters are well-defined in their identity, but that doesn’t work with homestuck, because no matter what you WILL be stepping on the toes of someone’s version of a character that they’ve been fostering in their own head for god knows how long

i think there ARE ways to make homestuck’s cast more diverse in a concrete way without making everyone upset! the first is to......make new characters......if homestuck really is entering a new era, why can’t it burst onto the scene with a new rainbow cast of misfits for everyone to imprint themselves onto? not enough trans mlm rep? why not make a new one (that isnt lanque)! not enough canon autistic rep? hire an autistic person to make an autistic character! friendsim would’ve been perfect for this, but they didnt take advantage of it basically AT ALL (and where they did they......kinda fucked up lmao)

something else ive seen suggested is to establish new identities for characters that don’t fundamentally change who they are. if you’re like me and you think homestuck needs more trans girls, why would you take JOHN of all ppl and make him mtf when you have a perfectly good rose....or jade....or terezi (or roxy but eh. thats not on the table anymore) right there!

and i think its important to say that i dont blame this at all on the original creators of the june headcanon, i appreciate what theyve done and the works theyve inspired a lot! its not their fault, but things have really REALLY got out of hand. with pesterquest on the horizon, i think we’re in a fascinating and nervous period for homestuck. things are going to be changing soon, and i dont know if its gonna be for the better :C

#homestuck #homestuck epilogues #homestuck fandom #look. im hoping at least SOMEONE will read this a;lkdsjf #masc roxy ment

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