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hollowwhisperings · 9 months

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The Kids Are Alright: What's In "Blood Stew"?

In preparation for my efforts on crafting some Meera Reed meta & in support of my "Jojen Is Fine, Actually" post, I will be Preemptively Addressing the subject of "Blood Stew" in the Bran POV chapters in ADWD.

CW: spoilers for ASOIF & D&E, reference to cannibalism, hunting of animals (& probable extinction), logistics of meat production, harm to children, suicidal ideation (Jojen), arson (including to religious sites, i.e. Old Gods), possible xenocide, body horror (Brynden), cult behaviour & indoctrination, drugging & grooming of minors (Bran, by the Singers), blasphemy (consistent usage of religious terminology for an in-setting cult of faith).

Team "Cave Kids": Setting the Scene

Going into WoW, Team Bran (Bran, Summer, Walder, Meera & Jojen) will have lived as guests of the Cave Singers for near up to a year: their lodgings lay within a vast & labyrinthine underground cave system, crawling with weirwood tree roots from the Haunted Forest above, and home to More Skeletons Than A Natural History Museum. All the humans (& Summer) share sleeping quarters. Summer pops out to Hunt and Do Wolf Leader Things (GRRM has subscribed his direwolves to Ye Olde Alpha Wolfe society); Jojen Worries Meera and sometimes goes Exploring; Meera and Walder are more cautious in their movements, when Bran isn't Bodysnatching Walder for his own explorations; Bran himself is carried by Singers to & from the shared sleeping chamber to Brynden's Vertigo Cave for "Flying" Lessons.

This entire region is named by the ASOIAF Wiki as "the cave of the three-eyed crow": as I always do, I Take Issue With That Name (I got sidetracked enough to move my thoughts to a separate draft).

Instead, [Team Bran] are guests of the Singers living in "the Caves [Beneath the Haunted Forest]". The Cave Singers are Singers, not Children of the Forest, though I do use Bran & Meera's nicknames for individual Singers.

Brynden is just "Brynden": he was, once, "Lord Commander"; a "Lord Hand" twice-over; and a "Master of Whispers" both before & after his ever receiving the position "officially". More hilariously, Brynden is very definitely the Distant Cousin (mayhaps even a many-times great Uncle) of every living Stark in the series. All courtesy of one Lady Melantha Blackwood of Winterfell (and GRRM's continued Indifference to the maternal sides of family trees, To Be Doylist About It).

Bed & Breakfast

My Grievances with Non-Existent Titles, Leaf's Suspect Math & Unspecified Maternal Lineage aside, let us return to "blood stew".

"And almost every day they ate blood stew, thickened with barley and onions and chunks of meat. Jojen thought it might be squirrel meat, and Meera said that it was rat. Bran did not care. It was meat and it was good. The stewing made it tender." (Bran III, ADWD)

Jojen and Meera are probably both right, sometimes at the same time: Bran is aware of Summer's freely exit the caves to Hunt & Summer likely donates the odd "squirrel" (or pieces thereof) to the Cave Kitchens, when he can. The Supernaturally Colder climate induced by the Others does make Summer's hunting an unreliable food source, in the long run: what little game still remains in the Haunted Forest is unlikely to have any offspring to replace the current population. The ever diminishing returns of Summer's hunts are a major factor in his Direwolf Mother travelling South for her pregnancy in the first place. That she, a Giant Direwolf, somehow got as far South as Winterfell's Wolfswood? Brynden is in the neighbourhood and Invested in House Stark, if only in Bran & Jon: his "Divine Intervention" is the most plausible explanation. Directing a local direwolf to Stark lands is well within his canonically established capabilities (whether this was easier than Rigging Jon's Election is a Fun Thought Experiment).

Local vermin and Summer's potluck contributions alone could not sustain the Singers, let alone their (fragile!) human guests: it is a different sort of meat that makes up most of their Blood Stews, one Greatly Speculated upon and one of Shocking Audacity... so what is the primary ingredient of Blood Stew?

Cave Goat. :D

The Kids Are Alright

The Singers canonically keep Goats for milk, used for cheesemaking. The Singers themselves are Omnivorous (they eat mushrooms & fish) so they probably eat their goats too. Given that the Cave Settlement has existed for 1 million years (Leaf's Math, GRRM's lacking a sense of Scale), the Singers have had a long time to familiarize themselves with lactose tolerance & the butchering of goats for meat. These goats have likely lived alongside the Singers for a very long time: they're never mentioned leaving the Caves to (not) graze, meaning they too live entirely in darkness. Brynden might be called upon, now & then, to skinchange into wild Flock Queens from Above (googling "do goats have leaders" has informed me that goats are Matriarchal) & thus bring "Fresh Blood" to existing herds.

Speaking of Blood, the "blood" in Blood Stew is probably goat blood preserved after slaughter in That Most Ancient Form Of Sausage... black pudding. Blood spoils too quickly otherwise, even if the Singers have "freezers" in the form of cold caves. While GRRM never says as much, the Singers certainly have the means to "farm" salt to aid in meat preservation. There is at least one underground river in the Caves (the black one with blind fish) that is never specified as "salty" or "fresh". Assuming the Singers weren't just "mining" rock salt (solar evaporation would be Rather Difficult, what with the Complete Absence of Sunlight), the Caves almost certainly boast several brine springs.

The access to salt and [cold caves] enable the Singers to "stretch" each goat slaughtered, making them the most reliable source of meat. Given that the Singers personally tend to their goat herds, the "hygiene" of their goat meat makes the goats a much safer offering for their even the most fragile of their human guests (Bran & Jojen). Goats are safer for the Singers too: Leaf gives a population count of "three-score" for her people, and there any implications that they are an "aging population". Singers are small in size, limited in number and their mobility is likely decreasing. The "strength" of any individual Singer is never really expanded upon, beyond their ability to carry Bran around (which... doesn't really say much, given that he's a malnourished nine-year old) and historic difficulties facing humans head-on (bronze weapons & fire, yes, but larger sizes too). Slaughtering domesticated goats would be within the physical capabilities of the Singers we see moving around, hunting bigger (or more aggreesive) game would be Difficult unless Skinchanging was involved (keeping an animal docile enough to restrain and drug with shrooms, the skinchanger leaving before the actual slaughter).

So, shockingly, the "blood" in Blood Stew is just goat sausages (blood, intestines, grain & salt). The "hunks of meat" are Also Goat, for the most part, with Summer's hunts and local vermin (rats, bats, probably not ravens, any safe-for-humans bugs).

Supplementary Protein

Fish are another source of "meat": the Caves have at least one river, home to blind white fish eaten by both Singers & their human guests (differentiating "fish" from game meat would be difficult, given the primary goatiness & the "Stone Soup" vibe of any communal stew).

As Meera speculated, any vermin capable of surviving the supernatural cold, are likely additional ingredients for "Blood Stew". Vermin would be an issue in the Caves, drawn to the Singers having grain stores (oats and barleycorn): these are cold climate crops, making them farmable even This Far North (barley doesn't freeze to death 'til -8° C) though how the Singers could grow these crops in their Caves can only be Handwaved By Magic (For Safety Reasons, skylights or aboveground gardens are Unlikely). That or the Singers used ravens to facilitate Trade with freefolk, when they still lived in the area (the lands of the Thenns are North-West of the Haunted Forest). Magic ravens migjt even be foraging wild grain on the behalf of the Singers: they are fey folk, even without their keeping (stealing) the odd human to act as their personal Eldritch God-Tree Wizard.

The ravens themselves can probably be ruled out as ingredients in Blood Stew: these ravens are Sapient and Divine Envoys besides. There's also the IRL precedent of corvids Holding Grudges: incurring the Wrath of the local avian hivemind would be Enormously Stupid of the Singers. The Murders vastly outnumber the Singers, making peaceful relations Rather Important. Ravens that die prematurely or of injuries (not of sickness: fragile humans are fragile, after all) might be "Fair Game" but, knowing GRRM, the Cave Ravens are probably cannibalistic carrions.

The Cave Ravens would be much more relaxed by Singers harvesting their eggs, outside Mating Season at least. All birds eat their own eggs, making them less "taboo" than one might think. Eggs function as "external food storage" for birds, adults eating unfertilized eggs they lay & babies eating their way out from the egg they hatch from. I could not speculate on how Singers prefer their eggs: in Blood Stew, I could only guess that raven egg yolk would help in "tendering" the goat blood sausages after cold storage.

For all the food sources available to the Singers, the Blood Stews being served "almost everyday" does indicate that Rationing is at play: a Long Night looms and exhausting any food source means losing that food source permanently. Goats, fish, Summer's donations, raven eggs (&/or ravens), vermin and bugs make up the actual "meat" in Blood Stew. The general confusion of the humans as to what their meat is may be further muddled by some "hunks" actually being mushrooms or cheese.

But Humanitarianism!

While zombies are an Awkwardly Plausible Convenience (Coldhands has killed Night's Watch deserters in the vicinity of the Caves & wights were Hidden in the snow surrounding one of its entrances)... consider the state of these wights. The vast majority are rotting, even in the supernaturally cold temperatures and, since Freefolk traditionally burn their dead, the wights that are reanimated likely died in Unsavoury Manners. Even "fresh" or "preserved" corpses are quickly riddled with Unappetizing bacteria and insects. The frozen wights are old, the murdered or forgotten, and all of them Decidedly Unhygienic. Human wights might be safe enough for carrion birds or even the Singers themselves... but they are not safe for their human guests.

Consider the Efforts, the Sacrifices, that enabled Bran's getting to the Singers at all: even with Brynden's "Divine Intervention" (getting the Starklings bodyguards in the form of direwolves, prompting their awakenings as Wargs; encouraging Jojen & thus Meera to meet Bran at Winterfell; bidding Coldhands to save Sam & Gilly, enabling easier passage North via Creepy Eldritch Door, on time to give the kids a "Lift" on his Great Elk), the likelihood of Bran dying was always higher than his surviving. Readers know Bran has Plot Armour but, in-universe, his continued survival has been costly. Getting Bran safely to the Singers was an expensive undertaking, one requiring a great many moving pieces (some of them arguably "moved" before Bran was even born: each Starkling held Potential, some moreso than others, and none of their parents were originally intended for each other).

It is almost certain that Bran was not the first child Brynden Lured North: popular fanon names Euron Greyjoy as an "abandoned" attempt, whilst Jojen was canonically [granted audience? scouted?] only to be "ruled out" (being "only" a greendreamer, Jojen was instead used to Better Bran's Odds of Survival).

While greendreamers and skinchangers are Statistical Anomalies, with persons who are Both being even rarer, Westeros is large enough that having a handful of potential greenseers within generations of each other is a Fair Estimate. No, the issue is the Rarity of Potential Greenseers AND the deadly nature of any "pilgrimage". That only Brynden and Bran are ever named seems to indicate that their managing both trials makes them "worthy" of Reverance, even before "earning" the title of "greenseer". That Bran survived was miraculous and, indeed, Brynden certainly worked "Overtime" in his Acts of Divine Intervention. Even then, Bran (& Jojen's) survival was very much dependent on Summer and Meera's presence in the group: the Singers owe every single member of Team Bran a debt, all of them serving vital roles in getting them a Shiny New God-Tree for their collectiom.

What does Divine Intervention and Debts of Hospitality have to do with Blood Stew, with an "Exciting" Opportunity for Hypothetical "Humanitarianism"?

Simple: Bran is too important to the Singers for them to Risk his health by their serving "Bad Meat". Imagine going to such great lengths to find a Fresh Godling, the relief that This Godling survived to meet his destiny... only for their Godling to get killed by food poisoning.

"And They Were Roommates"

The only meal noted as being Separately Prepared for any of the humans is Bran's Weirwood Paste: what one of them eats, all of them eat. That means that one of the humans getting sick (Jojen being the most susceptible), risks all of them catching ill. While each of the humans does "disappear" now and then, exploring or generally doing their own thing, the extreme cold of their environment (their extended time traumabonding with each other) means that they all share the same sleeping chamber. They share furs, body heat, breath.

While the Singers could very easily isolate the humans from each other (if only for quarrantine purposes), keeping them together is "safer": the humans would recognise sickness or distress in each othed before the Singers could and the humans already know how to take care of each other. The Singers being Good Hosts is in their best interests, not only in currying favour with their new god-in-training but also to ensure said godling survives to do any "Ascending".

Children Are Fragile: Why "Bad Meat" Isn't An Option

Grand Futures of Kingship & God-Treehood aside, at this point in time, Bran Stark is nine-years old. Human children, even Super Magical Starklings, are still children. And children are fragile.

Bran is still recovering from Attempted Murder, with his injuries limiting his independent mobility in ways his society cannot truly accomodate (not as a Prince of Winterfell & definitely not as a half-frozen cave kid). An inability to walk isn't the greatest danger of Bran's disabilities: thermoregulation of half his body is. Bran's friends are better able to recognise Bran's symptoms of physical distress than Bran is, than the Singers could. The humans also have greater strength and mobility: the Singers only seem to have three fingers on each hand and, while Bran is unlikely to grow much bigger given his environment, he will be getting some growth spurts soon. It's unknown how long Bran is expected to need "training" from Brynden, how long he will be carried to & from the communal sleepchamber and his weirwood throne. The Singers might just Graft Bran to his Throne once he's too big for them to safely carry but, again, there is no timeline given for Bran's progress. Better to keep "Hodor" about, thinketh the much tinier Singers.

Jaime's Murder Attempt also put Bran into a prolonged coma, one he was Fortunate to awaken from. That Bran has not exhibited any of the more "inconvient" (or dangerous) consequences of a longterm coma is almost certainly Brynden's "Divine Intervention" at work. Surprising lack of cognitive issues (temporary or longlasting) aside, Bran's coma & his subsequent state of "perpetual bedrest" has left his body much weaker the average child. He's already malnourished, traumatised and struggling to stay warm: Bran getting sick, even a "minor" sickness like a cold or bout of mild food poisoning? That could kill him.

Even if Bran doesn't die from an illness, recovery would be Difficult in such as a Hostile Environment: it is cold, it is dark (no sunlight whatsoever), and [Food Insecurity] is an ongoing reality. If a person is already physically weakened, minor illnesses can very easily escalate into more serious ones. There are no Maesters, no Medicine Women for Bran. The Singers have magic bit they are fey while Bran is (at present) terrifyingly mortal. Keeping Bran alive means keeping him healthy and doing that requires keeping the Other Humans 'healthy" too: serving the "spares" Questionably Sourced Meat is against the Best Interests of the Singers, their Investment in Keeping Bran Alive.

(For now, at least.)

The Jojen Problem

The terrifying fragility of their Future God-King aside, a more "immediate" danger to the continued existence of the Cave Singers is Jojen Reed: that is, Jojen's consistent lack of good health.

Bran was a healthy child who became very vulnerable very suddenly: Jojen, meanwhile, has been "sickly" for Years. Not only is Jojen "small" for his age (14-ish), he is often described as "shaking". IRL, people get tremours for any number of reasons, and comorbid conditions are not unusual. There is valid reason to view Jojen's "shakes" as symptoms of an ongoing, chronic health condition. Jojen might have a chronic illness, lasting side effects from the fever that nearly killed him, and he's had ample opportunity to acquire some [head trauma] over the series. Jojen's "shaking fits" may also be his physiology "teaming up" with psychological trauma: muscular twitches from the stress of hypervigilance, shakiness borne of anxiety & stress, atypically expressed panic attacks (that can resemble seizures in their physicality).

While Jojen's Ambiguous Disorders are decidedly non-contagious (going by IRL counterparts), Jojen's predisposition to "sickliness" makes him just as vulnerable to Death By Minor Illness as Bran, if not moreso given Jojen's Current Psychological State.

The Terrifying Fragility of Jojen Reed

Jojen, for Very Justified Reasons, is Very Depressed. Depression, in fiction & IRL, makes people more susceptible to catching illnesses and makes recovery more difficult. That is true even when a person is not deliberately enabling (or passively "allowing") an illness to harm them.

Jojen "this is not the day I die" Reed is exhibiting every sign of suicidal ideation that Bran, his friend & fellow fragile tiny human, can pick up on. Meera, the Designated Adult of Team Bran at the wise old age of 17 & Jojen's big sister, has become genuinely concerned that Jojen's (passive) Death Wish has become an Active one.

Jojen has long believed that he is Functionally Immortal outside of Greywater Watch: his very first Greendream was, after all, a vision of his own Death. It's not unreasonable to suspect that said Death Dream is a recurring one, that Present Circumstances (Brynden's Body Horror, the complete lack of sunlight) have Exacerbated the frequency of Jojen's Dreaming of Death. Fans of The Song greatly enjoy speculating on Jojen's Inevitable Demise, many assuming he is Already Dead. This is based on his last "appearance" being Bran noting Jojen's Absence: fans fail to extend this state of Already Dead to the Also Absent Meera.

(My tinfoil has One of The Reeds Finding Something while Exploring, grabbing their sibling so as to Convene Privately Elsewhere, & that together they have begun to Conspire An Escape)

If Jojen were to Die Prematurely, far from his Destined Death at Greywater Watch... there goes Meera Reed's Entire Motivation for Being Here, in this Far Away Frozen Helscape.

Meera, obligatory loyalty to House Stark aside, has stated that her primary incentive to follow Bran, to Go North and remain there while Bran [gets made into a tree-wizard]... was to save Jojen from his Death Wish.

Reasons to Fear Meera Reed

Meera is the "healthiest" of all the humans in Team Bran: she's able-bodied, physically mature (short, yes, but strong), lethal with a net & spear... and the primary caregiver of everyone in their group.

Summer (2 y/o) helps, with scouting and hunting and bodyguarding. Walder (17 or older) helps, kind and physically powerful. Jojen (14 y/o) helped, with Uncanny Wisdom and foresight and faith in Bran. Bran (9 y/o) is, of course, the Designated Hero of his chapters (this is Greatly Limited by his being only nine-years old).

Meera (17-ish) did all that and more. Meera hunted, guarded, scouted, foraged, killed, climbed... and did so as a non-magical human, relying on her experience as a crannogmen and her Father's Daughter.

Meera keeps up morale and tells [Very Helpful] Stories, leads where Walder and the children cannot, posseses Common Sense & life experience, mediates when the children are fighting (scolds them for taking their frustrations out on each other), senses Social Danger that Summer might miss, skins prey & butchers it (ensuring none of it goes to waste). Meera is a survivalist, one canny of the Old Ways, a "Modern" example of why the First Men so successfully survived in Westeros.

And the Singers of the Cave are Old. They Know the capabilities of Humans, the single greatest threat the Singers have ever known. The Singers Remember: the Pact, the 4000 years of war before it; the First Men, their axes; the Andals, their iron & blasphemy. The Singers know Human as Invaders and Desecrators and (sometimes) Allies. The Singers also "know" the Consequences of a Human who FeelsToo Much.

Humans, historically, have Little Issue with Seeings Things Burn. Humans, it seems, will respond to Any Strong Emotion with Bronze or Iron or Fire.

Cold? A Human will find a Tree and set it on fire.

Hungry? A human will Kill Something and heat it... over fire.

Dead? Other humans gather, collect the deceased, set the body on fire.

Grieving? A human will find iron, demand answers, find you. And should your "Answers" prove unsatisfactory? Humans will set fire to YOU, your settlement, your Gods.

Meera is very, very "human". She is the most human of her group: Bran is, of course, a God-Tree sapling; Jojen is Greensighted, not long for his human flesh and soon to join You in the Trees; the one called "Hodor" reminds You of the Giants, long ago foes and more recent allies but all but a few Gone to the Earth.

(Summer is a Direwolf.)

Meera is the Single Greatest Threat to the Cave Singers, who believe themselves the "last" of their people. Meera is a Consiserable Threat to the Last Greenseer, whom she has grown to Suspect and Resent. Meera does not, at least, carry on her person any axe (she wields spear and net and shield).

Meera can definitely start a fire. Meera would willingly start a Fire, a pyre for her brother built from the Last Greenseer himself. Meera would gladly burn out the Last of the Singers, for Vengeance and as Sacrifices to stay the suit of wights (of Others) as she Flees South and homeward (taking your Prince, your Shiny New God-Tree, the Last Hope of your People with her for spite alone).

That's All, Folks!

So, no: "Blood Stew" is not made from people. It is not made of Jojen or Meera, it is Goat and Vermin and Bugs. It is occasionally made with Squirrels. The "blood" is black pudding, goat's blood and intestines salted to ensure no goat goes to waste: their hides and furs warm the children, their blood and flesh sustains them, their cheese enables their exercising in philosophy. Wights are just too dangerous, to hunt or serve for supper: Bran (& Jojen) cannot be risked for the sake of morbid convenience. Live humans are right out, too much bigger and stronger than the Singers, or too dearly missed by The Scariest Being North of The Wall.

The Kids are Alright (the human ones, anyway).

#valyrianscrolls #asoiaf theories #jojenpaste #blood stew #the last greenseer #i can't believe it's not cannibalism!#why are song fans so obsessed with oblivious humanitarianism #i googled things i never wanted to google in factchecking this #i am not a medical professional nor involved in the food industry #jojen reed meta #meera reed meta #bryndenpaste #to get in the mindset of writing this required me to think like a fey folk #cw cannibalism #cw food #cw suicidal ideation #cw body horror #brynden rivers is his own warning #i am weirdly more sympathetic to brynden after spending so much time in Leaf POV #singers of the earth #cotf meta #three-eyed crow is not a title #life beyond the wall #walder is hodor's actual name #just like brynden is the three-eyed crow's actual name and bran is the winged wolf's #sci-fi writers have no sense of scale #i have cut enough meta while drafting this post to make two more posts #but mostly i just want to never have to discuss “humanitarianism” ever again #guest right #crud i forgot to consider whether guest right would be as strongly respected by singers as by first men

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nightswatchdisbandmentera · 8 months

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House Stark as Nene Leakes Memes

Ned

Catelyn

Robb

Jon

Sansa

Arya

Bran

Rickon

Bonus - Theon

#a nice lil jokey joke for the dash shjsnsbbs #but this was also fact checked by george rorge rorge martin himself #asoiaf #jon snow #bran stark #arya stark #robb stark #rickon stark #sansa stark #theon greyjoy #eddard stark #catelyn tully #house stark #bran is tripping balls on jojenpaste #jon is getting to the wall and going ew what up will all them people they stink #inspired by the very iconic house stark as john mulaney quotes post

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ladystoneboobs · 4 months

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on this week's tully tuesday, ok, i cannot defend the trout sigil, but the interesting thing about their coat of arms is that the colors not only reflect their geographic domain (mud red for the red fork of the trident and blue and white for the tumblestone flowing into it), it also mirrors the family's Signature Look of red-brown hair and blue eyes. what other house has that matchup of banner colors and physical looks? certainly not any of the other great houses. the starks have grey eyes but not naturally snow white hair. the lannisters have golden hair but not crimson eyes. the baratheons have black hair but not yellow eyes like a sith lord or the bully in a christmas story. the greyjoys also have black hair but no yellow/gold eyes either (that we know of. nobody can say for sure what's under euron's eye patch). the arryns may tend to blue eyes like jon arryn and harry the heir, however, i think we'd know, even with so few of them in canon, if any had pure white hair from childhood. the tyrells have neither green hair/eyes nor gold hair/eyes. the martells have neither hair nor eyes that are orange, red, and/or gold. the targaryens had red-eyed (but white-haired) bloodraven, an albino outlier, and black-haired family members favoring their dornish, baratheon, strong, etc. heritage but none of them had red eyes (that we know of), and all those are exceptions not conforming to the Signature Look of the incestuous blood of the dragon with their pale hair and purpleish eyes. that trademark true targ coloring could only be reflected in banners of a violet dragon on a silver field or vice versa.

but no, no, with the tully banners grrm just had to triple the significance with geographic locale, family hair/eye coloring that just somehow matches the rivers where their castle is (did this look only develop after axel tully built his stronghold at that strategic location? or did their banners already reflect their looks before they became associated with that river meeting too? did the present coat of arms come after riverrun was built, or was it just a serendipitous act of destiny for it all to match up that way?) plus all the fish symbolism relating to catelyn. (no, i'm still not really defending the trout bc that part doesn't really extend to the rest of the house the same way.)

#valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta #asoiaf #house tully #catelyn tully #one fish two fish red fish blue fish #and yes to the guy in the tags of my last tully post: ofc this is the kind of shit we only come up w after 10+yrs book drought #but i'd rather spend my time this way than making crack theories and distributing them to a wide audience #and i dont just mean preston jacobs and the tiktok maester conspiricists #but also those of y'all making people think jojenpaste is as solid as r+l=j #(c)lsb

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catofoldstones · 6 months

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Everyday I have to wake up and discover old asoiaf theories against my will. Now wtf is a freypie 😭😭😭

#or jojenpaste #after a first reading my jury is still out on whether jojen is actually dead or not #he most likely is but my heart will be crushed at that so I don’t accept it #absolutely alive till twow comes out #but everyday everyday I have to wake up and look. at. words.#asoiaf #theories

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kingsmoot · 5 months

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adwd; prologue

adwd; bran i

adwd; prologue

adwd; bran i

adwd; davos i

adwd; bran ii

#liveblog tag #adwd liveblog tag #cannibalism tag #ok so. jojenpaste is real.#comparatives

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daenystheedreamer · 1 year

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Do u want to talk about cannibalism in asoiaf

i luuurve the way cannibalism is portrayed in asoiaf. it makes me a bit crazy.... the way stannis, a man shown to be the epitome of justice and law, kept men imprisoned just in case they ran out of food. wartime murder, rape, civilian casualties, etc are portrayed as bad but almost necessary/unstoppable symptoms of war, yet cannibalism is this one taboo they still keep.

it is DEEPLY linked to the old gods, it's this primal, ancient horror, next to/linked to guest right and kinslaying. bran eating jojenpaste/coldhands' shady game, the warg starks (inc. robb!) all probably eating people while skinchanging, arya maybe eating human at THOBAW.

i like the way its often class based. king's landing's poor are fed and fuelled by literally eating each other THAT is the true naked face of feudalism. while the red keep has a constant revolving door of huge feasts, arya is eating the brown of flea bottom.

i love the ouroboros of it all, the endless cycle. a lot of it is also linked to the riverlands! frey pies, nymeria, robb and greywind, vargo hoat, the historical mention of danelle lothston.

checking the AWOIAF page for cannibalism (which yes, exists), the amethyst empress myth is linked with it. i'm not much of a GEOTD theoriser but hmm much to consider, especially it's links to azor ahai and nissa nissa.

in summary i think its a great narrative device and metaphor. i think grrm uses it very well! i hope we get 6/6 on starklings eating people (skagosi are rumoured to eat people come on rickon just one finger eat one finger bro come on everyone else is doing it...)

#THREE acronyms on this post. i wonder what the average is...#asoiaf #ask #anonymous #anon thank you for letting me talk my shit. love u. youre my everything. kissing you on the temples.<3

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lemonhemlock · 5 months

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The thing I have also noticed about targies is that they not only refuse to engage with the historical precedents of a pseudo medieval world, but they admit that for them the magic is the main appeal for of HOTD/ASOIAF.....which is incredibly bizarre to me because Martin, whether intentionally or not, has thrown the more magical elements of the story to the wayside, in order to focus on the human socio-political drama in both ASOIAF and Fire and Blood. ASOIAF, in general, is very 'low fantasy' there is very little magic, the magic that is there is not thoroughly explained, and the Others, the big bad of the series, has been mentioned approximately three times over five books and 25 years. The magic is essentially a plot device and not even a device that Martin particularly likes to use lmaoo.

Anyway this hyper focus on magic and the inability to see what GRRM is doing with magic - it's not the solution it's the problem - is a big reason the fandom is so....off in their predictions. Like, the dragons are not saviors, there is no prophesied savior, etc.

This is why targies are always harping on how there is no way for Sansa to be QITN or even go back to Winterfell because she lost her 'MaGIcAL ConNeCTioN' when Lady was offed - as if I'm supposed to give a fuck about direwolves or what the fuck 'warging' is lmaooo when there are vastly more interesting human dramas and political plots playing out in the series.

Conversely, this is why King Bran as Martin's endgame is so stupid imo lmao. He's giving a magical solution for a political human drama that he's been setting up for five books and has not done enough to build up the importance of magic in the series. Like, I'm sorry but a seven year old all seeing Tree Wizard Warlock as King of the 7K is an absolutely hilarious endgame and makes all the philosophical discussions about good rulers and leadership a joke.

Bullseye. 🎯

The only caveat I have is that, while I agree with your assertion that ASOIAF is low-fantasy, the magical element does slowly gain in importance and it's fair to say that the characters who ignore the magical threats (the Others, dragons) are categorically in the wrong and will end up paying for it. But it is very, very likely that the end of the series will see Westeros returning to a normal climate and the disappearance of magic once and for all. The man himself is on record saying magic can be a hindrance and part of the problem!

This is my personal theory as to why he is taking so much time to publish The Winds of Winter, not just because he wrote himself into a corner with the Meereenese knot, making it very difficult to get Dany to Westeros in one book. But it's also that the King Bran ending doesn't make any sense. Perhaps that was indeed his original planned ending, perhaps that was indeed what he told D&D all those years ago, but as he likes to consider himself a gardener-type of writer, the garden he tended started to grow beyond his control and now having a CCTV Tree in charge of Westeros at the end of the series directly contradicts the themes he developed for nearly 30 years.

No hate to Bran, who is an OK kid, but everyone else in the series who's become entangled with the magic to that extent has paid dearly for it. We have Beric Dondarrion on page telling us exactly how it takes its toll and he feels himself becoming less human. Bran also commits several other transgressions that would normally have other characters cursed or punished via deus-ex-machina like warging into Hodor and eating jojenpaste (the last is theoretically unconfirmed, but come on).

At the end of the day, he is an immature child who's being used as a pawn by Bloodraven, with little formal training in the ways of being a lord (the bare minimum), no practical experience with leadership, no social skills and no charisma. These are all consequences imposed on him given his status as a fugitive and not his fault by any means or reflective of a lack of inclination, but they are practical realities nonetheless. GRRM has spent so many pages already criticising poor leadership skills and has always punished bad, immoral, incompetent OR naive people in positions of power - how is he going to make an exception out of Bran without negating literally every other POV he's chosen to write? This is a serious problem in the construction of the story.

He's also already been caught with his pants down by the show and saw for himself how nearly everyone either hated or mocked the King Bran endgame. I'm really very curious what was his opinion on that and whether it made him reflect in any way. D&D did indeed make a hodgepodge of the final season, but it's still got to sting to see how the majority of viewers thought it was a completely random choice and a joke ending.

#ask #anon #anti bran stark #for filtering purposes #i have no idea if bran has militant stans #i don't even necessarily dislike him though i do find his chapters boring #grrm #asoiaf #magic in asoiaf #worldbuilding

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jeyneofpoole · 9 months

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#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf shitpost #asoiaf theories #asoiaf polls #poll #polls

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adarkandmagicalforest · 7 months

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I don't understand. How is Bran meant to have sex while warging when he's a 9 year old who doesn't what sex is? His only experience was seeing jaime and cersei, and he doesn't even remember that.

its one of the abominations thata detailed to us that wargs absolutely should never do, and so far bran is going through them. where we left him, he's at 2/3 abominations with warging into hodor as one and cannibalism (if you subscribe to the jojenpaste theory) as the second one. sure, bran doesnt know that these are things wargs shouldnt do, but the old gods have never cared about that - only if the crimes are committed.

with the sex while warging crime - this feels like something that was going to be less weird when you remember there was meant to be a 5 year time skip between books. and grrm himself says that by taking out the skip, it makes events in future books get a little wackier with ages.

so taking that in, bran is meant to be a full teenager in the weirwood cave, with meera, bloodraven and hodor - and multiple times, bran thinks that he might be in love with meera

its horrifying and awful and so so tragic a trajectory for bran, but him racing through the other two abominations so quickly and with little to no remorse where warging into hodor is concerned and wanting to feel strong while doing it....

this is not anti bran, i love bran, i can love a character whose future might be horrifying!

#bran stark #warging #tw sa implied #asoiaf

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atopvisenyashill · 4 months

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are you convinced young griff is aegon vi?

I would love to give you a long rambling answer but I’m still not on ADWD so I feel unable to commit one way or the other. I personally prefer that he’s real, but I also prefer the happy Narnia ending where the Starks all rule as joint monarchs over the North, but that’s because I’m a gigantic baby so!

I would say it’s less than I am convinced he’s real than I am unconvinced by the Blackfyre story. I don’t believe Varys is a Blackfyre, and I think Serra being a Blackfyre is at this point a stretch. I don’t see the point of it narratively, especially because I am torn on whether he’s the clothed dragon and I straight up do not believe he is the mummer’s dragon, but the sun’s son. I think that him being real makes his own story as well as his interactions with Jon & Daenerys specifically, but possibly with Arianne & Elia Sand as well, so much more full and interesting. And all of this doesn’t mean Illyrio and Varys aren’t planning something shady - I mean, it’s not like anyone predicted Beric was gonna become undead one eyed robin hood and then pass that on to Catelyn, it was something that only became obvious after it happened, and I’m sure we’re still in for some pulls like that that would explain some of Illyrio’s more puzzling behavior.

Which, to be fair, could also mean George can still pull off Aegon Blackfyre in a way I find satisfying narratively! Illyrio is suspicious because he claims he’s doing this for ~altruism~ but there’s clearly a motive here more complex than altruism or even money. The Golden Company connection, the focus on them being started by Bittersteel, and the Toyne connection are the parts I find actually suspicious, as well as George’s focus on the Blackfyre Rebellions across media. If you believe, as I do, that F&B contains some foreshadowing and specifically some parallel endings in the Dance and the main series, well that clearly applies to the BR as well. There’s also the fact that there were two fake princes in the war of the roses, with Lambert Simnel having some remarkable similarities to Young Griff.

So it’s just sorta like….fine? i guess?? i do think it’s a theory with some basis, but it’s not a theory with a lot of basis. It’s like Jojenpaste for me - I get it, I think there’s some basis for it, but I just don’t buy it.

#could change!!#asks #anons

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freetheon · 10 months

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honestly if jojenpaste is real, i won't be sad. it's what jojen would have wanted <3

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #he is my favorite unsettling little boy

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hollowwhisperings · 10 months

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Jojen is Fine, Actually: "Weirwood Paste" is Weirwood Paste.

CW: humanitarian diets, body horror, general blasphemy, mention of grooming (in the context of creepy tree wizards).

Okay so my being a HUGE Jojen (& House Reed in general) fan gives me an Obvious Bias against the idea of Jojen Dying Offscreen.

My being a huge literary nerd & lore geek, however, informs my Metaphor Senses that Jojen is Fine*, Actually.

The "Weirwood Paste" is Weirwood Paste: made of weirwood seeds, locally sourced. Said "Local Weirwood Tree" being. Y'know. Brynden Rivers.

It's Brynden Paste.

(*Fine: chronically ill, majorly depressed, freezing cold, surrounded by creepy tree people, stuck in a zombie wasteland, if he ever goes home he Dies, repeatedly dreaming of his own death... but, at least, Not Dead nor Being Eaten by the Prince of his Dreams? He's "Fine".)

First and foremost: storytelling conventions, even in a series as "deliberately unconventional" as ASOIAF, tend to tell audiences that NO ONE is genuinely "dead" until you see a body. And personally check its pulse. And test for rigor mortis. And maybe stab them in a lethal place, jusr to be Sure. And then burn the body, scatter its ashes, send couriers off in different directions to hide what remains in Remote Places never to be known of by the other couriers. Maybe Silence the couriers if they come back.

Er, you get the picture.

Most subscribers to "Jojenpaste" are in it for the lolz or assume The Worst due to Jojen's non-presence in the latest Bran chapters (aaand Jojen's being Very Permanently Dead in That Dragon Show). It's also an "easy" assumption that Since GRRM Is GRRM, any & all opportunities for Humanitarianism will be fully utilized.

Except... the weirwood paste is ALREADY "made of people" just because it's Weirwood (specifically, weirwood seeds) and the series has consistently described weirwood trees as "[human]".

Weirwood have "bone white" bark; they have Faces carved into them; they "Watch" and "Listen" and "Witness": this is consistent across POV characters, even before Jojen casually brings up "oh they're what Greenseers Become" or any meetings with a Literal Tree Man.

Weirwoods are described in human terms, doing human things, and at least 1 major character has been directly equivicated with Weirwoods for Plot Purposes: Ghost the Direwolf (and wolves, of course, are consistently used to mean "someone of House Stark" and the Starklings especially).

Then there is The Creepy Tree Man in the room: Brynden Rivers, called "Three-Eyed Raven" by Bran and Jojen (for that was how their Dreams interpreted him) or "The Last Greenseer" by the Singers (...despite BRAN very pointedly Being There To Prove Otherwise).

Brynden is also, as mentioned, a Tree Now.

A Weirwood Tree.

Y'know. Like the ones whose seeds make the Paste Bran's been eating.

So, unless the Singers have been sneaking about in Others' Territory to collect seeds from a different weirwood tree... that Paste is made of BRYNDEN.

Bran being fed "Brynden Paste' while Brynden Indoctrinates Teaches Bran to be a Tree Wizard makes far more sense, logistically & thematically, than Jojen getting shanked offscreen to belatedly be revealed to be "part of Bran all along".

For one thing, Meera would gladly set the Cave & everyone in it on fire if anyone so much as looks at her baby brother suspiciously. For another, Brynden is Right There for the eating & is filled with all sorts of Prophecy Juice: he's a Blackwood, he's a Targaryen, he's a Royal Bastard, he was an Infamous Spymaster with "A thousand eyes and one", he's done weird sacrifice BS before, he's a Greenseer (Jojen "only" has Greensight), he's a Living God (as per Singer & First Men Lore), the Cave Cult is trying to turn Bran INTO him...

There is a lot more "logic" to Bran's Magic Lessons featuring his knowingly (subconsciously, at least) eating Brynden than his secretly eating his friend. Human sacrifice tends to require Knowledge of the cost being paid & being Willing to do it anyway: Bran might be too tripped up on Paste to consciously connect the "Weirwood Paste" he eats with "that Human Weirwood Tree i'm sitting next to" but the Singers explicitly tell Bran the Paste is made from Weirwood Seeds. Bran "knows".

Godeating (metaphoric & literal) is a trope that is most commonly found in JRPGs, nowadays, but it has Precedent throughout western mythology: the Titan Kronus ate each of his children as they were born, Zeus alone escaping, in an effort to Dodge Prophecy; Zeus inherited Said Prophecy and, being his Father's Son, ate his first wife. The details of the Titanomachy (the War against the Titans by their reasonably upset kids) are Lost but Zeus, at least, gained all his Wife's Wisdom (& her pregnancy too) after eating her: Athena may or may not have Taken It Back upon breaking out from her Eaten Mother & Dear Old Dad.

Consuming something in order to "become" what is eaten is Fairly Common, if not with that specific phrasing: vampires seldom explain their reproduction as "eat me to become me", whilst the adorable Nintendo character Kirby & his method of Powering Up via Playing Vacuum, is Rephrased out of Sheer Self-Preservation (no one, not even I, likes to admit that The Cute Pink Blob is an Eldritch Abomination). Many JRPGs & works in eastern media use similar themes of "monster eats monster" and "let's eat god" for the purposes of High Stakes Action. Japan & East Asia has a lot less "baggage" when it comes to utilizing themes from Abrahamic verse, meaning that western works using themes of [consuming the divine] and [apotheosis] use Vampire Methodology. Such is the case in the Dragon Age series & its Order of Grey Wardens (who are, From A Certain POV, dragon god vampires).

Within the ASOIAF series itself, Dany's eating a horse heart (raw) has Humanitarian Themes in service of Prophecy and [Divinity]: the horse heart to the Dothraki, a society of horselords, could be what weirwood seeds are to First Men (especially given Jojen's whole "btw, the trees are gods are former greenseers").

Brynden & the Cave's Singers (whom I dearly hope are some long-exiled Cult & not reflective of Singers as a whole) are not particularly subtle in their Intentions for Bran: he is to be their New "Last" Greenseer. Bran is to Become Brynden or Brynden is to Become Bran: either and possibly both are plausible, though how compliant with the Singers' goals Brynden may be has yet to be revealed.

(the Brynden of F&B and D&E strikes me as someone who would gladly bodysnatch some poor kid for his own Agenda: the Singers seem unlikely to support fire-breathing foreigners, not without a Contingency Plan; somewhat likely to want Bran for the purposes of installing a Tree Hivemind Police State; and maybe, possibly... "just" wanting a Second God for their Cult in Bran, who probably Smells Better).

SUMMARY

Weirwoods are Personified in almost every appearance. Weirwood Trees are considered Gods. Jojen (& some Singers) have stated that the Next Evolutionary Phase of a Greenseer is "Weirwood Tree". Brynden "the Last Greenseer" is part of a Weirwood Tree.

Brynden & the Singers are Turning Bran Into A Weirwood Tree.

Bran's current diet is Tree Paste. His magic teacher, Brynden, is Part-Tree. The Nearest Tree to make Paste from is Brynden. The Paste is made of Brynden.

(Let's NOT think too hard on which parts of Brynden: I've only gotten this far in this Meta by using "Hunanitarian" as a pun.)

Eating Gods to Become A God is an existing Trope. Brynden is a God, by Singer & First Men definitions. Bran is being Groomed to Become Brynden, a God. To Become Brynden, Bran must Eat Brynden.

TL;DR

The Weirwood Paste is Weirwood Paste and Brynden is the Weirwood: the Paste is not "Jojen", it's BRYNDEN.

Jojen is Not Paste: Jojen is Alive but Not Well & Very Depressed.

#bran stark meta #valyrianscrolls #jojen reed #brynden rivers #the last greenseer #asoiaf theories #cw cannibalism #methodology of apotheosis #suspiciously remote tree people cultists are suspicious #i think i forgot to add back my theory that meera is overdue for some arson and jaywalking #the title is the last greenseer not three-eyed crow #three-eyed crow is just his default avatar in the minds of telepathic children #jojen doesnt go around calling bran winged wolf and expecting others to know what that means in his dreams #jojen goes around calling bran his prince #because bran could become the literal man of his dreams #i imagine jojen was disappointed to discover his prophetic dreams were emphasis prophetic

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