#jonrya meta

[mummersblade]

It is cute (and important!) how we get to see Ghost and Nymeria's interactions considering how little time they have together. These snippets feel extra special when you compare it to their moments, or lack thereof, with the other direwolves, like Nymeria and Lady at the Trident or even Ghost with his brothers in Jon's last chapter at Winterfell.

Summer is outside when Jon says goodbye to an injured, unconscious Bran, and while Grey Wind is with Robb when Jon goes to him, the wolves don't have any kind of moment of acknowledgement or familiarity.

Robb was in the middle of it, shouting commands with the best of them. He seemed to have grown of late, as if Bran's fall and his mother's collapse had somehow made him stronger. Grey Wind was at his side. (Jon II, AGoT)

This is the only time Grey Wind is referenced in Jon's farewell chapter. While Jon has his last goodbye with his best friend and fiercest rival, the direwolves are never referred in proximity to one another.

Of course, Jon's last farewell in Winterfell is the most important one: Arya. Here we get some great lines and moments while also including observations by Nymeria in relation to both Ghost and Jon.

Nymeria was helping. Arya would only have to point, and the wolf would bound across the room, snatch up some wisp of silk in her jaws, and fetch it back. But when she smelled Ghost, she sat down on her haunches and yelped at them. Arya glanced behind her, saw Jon, and jumped to her feet. She threw her skinny arms tight around his neck. "I was afraid you were gone," she said, her breath catching in her throat. (Jon II, AGoT)

-

"Who cares how they're folded?" "Septa Mordane," Jon told her. "I don't think she'd like Nymeria helping, either." The she-wolf regarded him silently with her dark golden eyes. "It's just as well. I have something for you to take with you, and it has to be packed very carefully." (Jon II, AGoT)

This scene is obviously all about Arya and Jon's closeness, not their direwolves', but I do think it says a lot that out of all the other direwolves only Nymeria is seen paying attention to and reacting to Ghost and Jon. She scents Ghost out and calls to him, just as she watches Jon as he talks with Arya. Nymeria perceives and acknowledges them both. There is a familiarity and recognition between the wolves, not so different from the one between their owners. This unique relationship between the wolves was established from Arya's first chapter; just as Nymeria gives away Jon's approach in his farewell chapter, Ghost does the same to Arya in her first chapter, dictating this relationship of being perceived and then wholly accepted by one another.

They arrived, flushed and breathless, to find Jon seated on the sill, one leg drawn up languidly to his chin. He was watching the action, so absorbed that he seemed unaware of her approach until his white wolf moved to meet them. Nymeria stalked closer on wary feet. Ghost, already larger than his litter mates, smelled her, gave her ear a careful nip, and settled back down. (Arya I, AGoT)

Nipping is shown to be a sign of affection for both Ghost and Nymeria when it comes to their owners.

Jon grinned and reached under the table to ruffle the shaggy white fur. The direwolf looked up at him, nipped gently at his hand, then went back to eating (Jon I, AGoT)

-

Nymeria nipped eagerly at her hand as Arya untied her. (Arya I, AGoT)

Compare this to when Jon threatens Rast to stop him from bullying Sam.

Hours later, as the castle slept, three of them paid a call on [Rast's] cell. Grenn held his arms while Pyp sat on his legs. Jon could hear Rast's rapid breathing as Ghost leapt onto his chest. The direwolf's eyes burned red as embers as his teeth nipped lightly at the soft skin of the boy's throat, just enough to draw blood. "Remember, we know where you sleep," Jon said softly. (Jon IV, AGoT)

Nipping is no longer friendly. Even when done 'lightly,' as described here, the gesture can go from one of familiarity to violence, dependent on the relationship between the creature and the human, further emphasizing the intimacy and trust of letting a wolf's teeth near you. Ghost playfully nips Jon many times through the series, and we get it between Arya and Nymeria even for the brief time they have together. That we have it also between Ghost and Nymeria portrays a level of trust and closeness to one another, too. They have a fond gesture just as Jon and Arya have their own fond gesture (Jon mussing Arya's hair, something they both miss across the series).

(side note: it's funny how the only other thing that nips Arya in THE WHOLE SERIES after her separation from Nymeria is a dragon skull...hmmmmm....)

For an instant she could feel [the skull's] teeth digging into her shoulder, as if it wanted a bite of her flesh. Arya whirled, felt leather catch and tear as a huge fang nipped at her jerkin, and then she was running. (Arya III, AGoT)

The dragon skulls "bite" her on her first meeting with them, but on her second pass through, she sees the same skulls as old friends. For the sharp gesture of their initial encounter, she harbors no ill-feelings for the skulls and finds companionship with them. This can be read either towards Dany and their future friendship, one that may grow from skepticism to familiarity and mutual trust, or it goes back around to Jon (or both!). Anyway, that was a tangent--

The few moments we get of Nymeria and Ghost together are a microscopic part of AGoT, let alone the whole series, but I still think their relationship is indicative of the one between Jon and Arya. It is an unguarded relationship, one built on shared feelings and trust; the ability to show their teeth and not have the other run away in fear. Arya knows Jon will accept her regardless of what she has done to survive. Jon has some of his most vicious thoughts when thinking of Arya's impending wedding to Ramsay Bolton, a fierce protectiveness that drives him to break his vows. These two characters are attuned to their wolves, even if they do not yet fully understand that, and the text already makes it clear how important and mutualistic the bond is between the wolf and its bonded human.

The kennelmaster once told her that an animal takes after its master. (Sansa I, AGoT)

This seems especially true when we look back to Arya's first chapter in the series.

"Nothing is fair," Jon said. He messed up her hair again and walked away from her, Ghost moving silently beside him. Nymeria started to follow too, then stopped and came back when she saw that Arya was not coming. Reluctantly she turned in the other direction. (Arya I, AGoT)

Nymeria's instinct is to go with Ghost, a sort of foreshadowing for how much Arya will want to be back with Jon across the series. She tries to go to him to the Wall, though she hasn't made it there (yet).

Ghost and Nymeria seem all the closer when we go back to Grey Wind and Ghost in Jon's farewell chapter, and then Nymeria and Lady at the Trident. Before Lady's death, the wolves are with their girls but show no familiarity with one another.

"There's going to be lemon cakes and tea," Sansa went on, all adult and reasonable. Lady brushed against her leg, Sansa scratched her ears the way she liked, and Lady sat beside her on her haunches, watching Arya chase Nymeria. "Why would you want to ride a smelly old horse and get all sore and sweaty when you could recline on feather pillows and eat cakes with the queen?" (Sansa I, AGoT)

Lady keeps close to Sansa, distant from her sister-wolf and Arya. Much like the strained relationship between the Stark sisters, Lady and Nymeria share no fond gestures or approach one another, keeping beside their owners instead. This is the closest they get to interacting until Lady's death and Nymeria's forced departure. There is no yelping, no nipping, just a passive gaze, since she remains sitting.

Of course there is also a fact that Nymeria is the alpha female and Ghost the alpha male of the fractured pack. If there is any doubt of their status, the books make it clear.

"I heard the same thing from my cousin, and she's not the sort to lie," an old woman said. "She says there's this great pack, hundreds of them, mankillers. The one that leads them is a she-wolf, a bitch from the seventh hell." (Arya II, ACoK)

He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. (Prologue, ADwD)

Nymeria is the leader of her pack, and Ghost is likened to a king. Considering the leadership arc Jon has in ADwD, and the foreshadowing for Arya's potential leadership capabilites in later books, their connection to their wolves can also indicate impending leadership roles in the North and in the war against the Others. I also think the snippet of Nymeria immediately following Ghost can foreshadow Arya supporting Jon's claim as KitN, especially if she does show up from the Riverlands with Robb's crown.

There is a connection between all the Starks' direwolves, as both Jon and Bran think about their whole pack when they warg into their wolves. However, the initial interactions between Nymeria and Ghost just reiterate how close Arya and Jon are, a relationship that is distinct from all the rest. While they may see their siblings as pack, too, there is a deeper layer to their relationship.

Now to get all speculative - the importance of being called to and recognizing one another through their wolves/the connection they have with their wolves will play a role in their reunion, I suspect. There are too many snippets snuck into Arya's Braavos chapters about animals being able to see past disguises, even those of magical origins--all at the same time of her worrying about Jon recognizing her.

She scratched his head behind one ear, and the cat jumped up into her lap and began to purr. Braavos was full of cats, and no place more than Pynto's. The old pirate believed they brought good luck and kept his tavern free of vermin. "You know me, don't you?" she whispered. Cats were not fooled by a mummer's moles. They remembered Cat of the Canals. (The Blind Girl, ADwD)

-

When she stopped to watch and listen for a moment, Tagganaro glanced at her without recognition, but Casso barked and clapped his flippers. He knows me, the girl thought, or else he smells the fish. She hurried on her way. (The Ugly Little Girl, ADwD)

-

But they were all dead now, even Arya, everyone but her half-brother, Jon. Some nights she heard talk of him, in the taverns and brothels of the Ragman's Harbor. The Black Bastard of the Wall, one man had called him. Even Jon would never know Blind Beth, I bet. That made her sad. (The Blind Girl, ADwD)

Why make it so clear that animals have a way to see past disguises, magical or otherwise? As Arya is donning new identities and faces even, she remarks on how she can still be recognized by animals she has befriended: the cats she can skinchange into and the King of Seals, another 'royal' animal in the series. Yet she is saddened at the thought of not being recognized by Jon, who, by the end of the same novel, is likely warged into Ghost following his assassination, adding a new depth to their relationship which has not been fully explored in its potential consequences. I think that animals' perceptions of Arya's disguises in Braavos are included to possibly circle back to Nymeria and Ghost, who discerned and welcomed one another (and their bonded wargs) in their short time together. We may see this again with Arya and Jon returning to one another, changed from who they once were, both now wargs deeply connected to their wolves, both physically and mentally different from when they were last together years past, but still being entirely seen and accepted by each other, regardless of what time and hardships have done to them both.

#needleheart #asoiaf #meta #asoiaf meta #needleheartwinter #jonrya #jon snow #arya stark #canonjonsnow #canonarya

[aryajon]

Significance of the blue winter rose vision for Jon and Arya

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. - Daenerys IV, ACOK

Symbolism in-universe

The clearest references we read regarding the blue winter rose is during Ned's POV:

He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost. - Eddard XV, AGOT

She had loved the scent of winter roses. - Eddard XV, AGOT

The subject in question here is Lyanna Stark, and we know that Ned found her in a bed of blood and roses. Rhaegar Targaryen crowned Lyanna as his Queen of Love and Beauty with blue winter roses.

As a result, blue winter roses in-canon are generally associated with Lyanna Stark.

Significance of ‘sweetness’

Throughout the series, ‘sweet’ smells carry associations with death, especially in Dany’s chapters.

Some instances in just the first book include Drogo’s wound which eventually kills him:

A foul, sweet smell rose from the wound, so thick it almost choked her. - Daenerys VIII, AGOT

And Dany’s memory of Ser Willem Darry’s death:

He never left his bed, though, and the smell of sickness clung to him day and night, a hot, moist, sickly sweet odor. - Daenerys I, AGOT

Lyanna and Jon

Lyanna's love and association for blue winter roses was established earlier. The wall of ice is the Wall itself, representing Jon as Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch and his current whereabouts. At one level of reading, the rose growing out of the wall refers to the truth of Jon's parentage, the crack - or chink - that shatters the illusion of his identity as the Bastard of Winterfell. The sweet smell could represent the death of Lyanna in bringing him into the world.

Lyanna and Arya

The two Stark characters canonically associated with flowers are Lyanna and Arya. Both are shown to have a great love for them:

One day [Arya] came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father. - Sansa I, AGOT

Then to Sansa [Arya] said, "When we were crossing the Neck, I counted thirty-six flowers I never saw before.’ - Sansa I, AGOT

"I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers." - Eddard I, AGOT

Lyanna and Arya are the only Stark women to resemble each other too:

“You remind me of [Lyanna] sometimes. You even look like her.” - Arya II, AGOT

Lyanna and Arya are also said to be very pretty / beautiful themselves, confirmed through other characters.

Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. - Ned I, AGOT

“I’m sorry I tore the acorn dress too. It was pretty.” / “Yes, child. And so are you.” - Arya IV, ASOS

"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. - Arya II, AGOT

“Or would you sooner be a courtesan, and have songs sung of your beauty?” - Arya II, AFFC

Bael the Bard’s story

“North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark's own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he'd made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. ‘All I ask is a flower,’ Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o' Winterfell.”

“Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished . . . and so had Lord Brandon's maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain.”

“The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says . . . though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark.” - Jon VI, ACOK

The story of Bael the Bard above is told to Jon by Ygritte, and its symbolism runs parallel to Lyanna’s own story.

Lyanna and the daughter of Lord Brandon Stark both fell in love and disappeared with their supposed kidnappers, going as far as giving them a son. Rhaegar and Bael were both singers. Lyanna and Lord Brandon’s daughter are both associated with blue winter roses, and the fact that Bael the Bard's son became Lord Stark is solid foreshadowing for Jon becoming King in the North.

The blue winter roses are also defined as the rarest of flowers, a very specific type that so far in canon, is only grown in the North.

Arya is the only Stark woman to bear the classic traits of House Stark:

Jon had their father's face, as she did. They were the only ones. Robb and Sansa and Bran and even little Rickon all took after the Tullys. - Arya I, AGOT

Her own children had more Tully about them than Stark. Arya was the only one to show much of Ned in her features. - Catelyn VI, ACOK

The Stark look is specifically Northern, compared to the Southern Tully appearance that everyone but Jon and Arya - and therefore Lyanna - have:

Lannister studied his face. "Yes," he said. "I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers." - Jon I, AGOT

Like the blue winter rose, Lyanna and Arya are a rare type of Northern beauty in that they are the only women in their time to look like the North and are canonically beautiful themselves. The Stark daughter in Bael’s story does not have her appearance described, but the Starks have bore their classic traits for generations and we can assume that she would have had a resemblance to Lyanna and Arya.

Blue winter roses are also called precious in Ygritte’s story. Arya is described as precious by the Northern Lords:

“What do you think passes through their heads when they hear the new bride weeping? Valiant Ned's precious little girl.” - The Turncloak, ADWD

Symbolism in literature

In literature, roses are generally linked to love and romance. This can possibly be explained by the Greek myth of Adonis and Aphrodite. When Adonis died in Aphrodite’s arms as she wept; the first red roses were said to have sprung up from his blood as it soaked into the earth, staining the nearby white roses a deep crimson. The idea of the red rose came imply such love that transcends death and lives on beyond the lovers’ own short lives.

The blue colour of the rose carries an added symbolism for desire, love, and the metaphysical striving for the infinite and the unattainable, given their rarity in nature.

Roses also have an ancient association with discretion and secrets. The Latin expression sub rosa (literally ‘under the rose’) denotes something said under the veil of secrecy.

Desire and love:

“The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son.” - Jon VI, ACOK

Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it. - The Kingbreaker, ADWD

What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister? - Jon VI, ADWD

The veil of secrecy, sub rosa:

Bael and Lord Stark’s daughter hid in the crypts of Winterfell.

"Bael had brought her back?" / "No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. - Jon VI, ACOK

Rhaegar had Lyanna hidden in the Tower of Joy.

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. - Eddard X, AGOT

It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory. - Eddard X, AGOT

Jon plans on sending Arya to hide in Essos once she’s been rescued.

The best solution he could see would mean dispatching her to Eastwatch and asking Cotter Pyke to put her on a ship to someplace across the sea, beyond the reach of all these quarrelsome kings. - Jon IX, ADWD

The sweetness of death + the unattainable

The significance of sweetness in relation to death was mentioned above, but death comes for both the men whom the Stark daughters loved, and for two of the Stark daughters themselves. The ‘unattainable’ symbolism of the roses is reflected in these tragic loves cut short by their separation.

Bael, Rhaegar and Jon are all slain, partially because of the consequences of stealing (or attempting to steal) the three Stark women from Winterfell.

Bael was slain for being King-Beyond-the-Wall, but by the son that he’d born with the stolen daughter of Lord Stark.

“Thirty years later, when Bael was King-beyond-the-Wall and led the free folk south, it was young Lord Stark who met him at the Frozen Ford . . . and killed him, for Bael would not harm his own son when they met sword to sword.” - Jon VI, ACOK

Rhaegar was slain by Robert for stealing Lyanna, in a war waged against his father, King Aerys II.

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name - Daenerys IV, ACOK

Jon was slain by his brother in black for his decisions as Lord Commander, partially for allowing the freefolk through the Wall, and partially because he was willing to break his vows to steal / save Arya.

Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold … - Jon XIII, ADWD

The connection between Jon and Arya here regarding Bael’s story is when Jon sends Mance Rayder to infiltrate Winterfell to save (an imposter, but what he believes to be) Arya. Mance uses the tale as inspiration and even pretends to be a musician called "Abel" which is an anagram for Bael. Jon, through Mance, is attempting to steal "Arya" from her (metaphorical and literal) marriage bed, much like Bael the Bard did with Lord Brandon's daughter.

A story of towers

Lord Brandon’s daughter and Lyanna all die in and around a tower.

When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. - Jon VI, ACOK

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. - Eddard X, AGOT

Arya has not died nor is dying in a tower anywhere, but she does have these thoughts when listening to a song very similar to Bael’s story:

He is a man of the Night's Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. - Cat of the Canals, AFFC

Bael and Rhaegar died before their respective Stark loves. Arya, as the third iteration of the story, breaks the mold and is potentially foreshadowed to take vengeance for Jon’s death, the way her predecessors were unable to.

Jon, Arya, and GRRM’s rule of thirds

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. - Daenerys IV, ACOK

The blue flower, as evidenced above, represents Lyanna Stark - but it also carries associations with the rebellious daughters of Stark, Arya being the third and final, following GRRM’s rule of thirds.

The wall of ice represents Jon Snow, who also serves as the connection for all three stories coming together. He hears Bael’s story, has Bael’s blood, is Lyanna’s son, and dies for breaking his vows to save Arya.

The air of sweetness represents death: Bael’s and Lord Stark’s daughter’s, Lyanna and Rhaegar’s, and eventually Jon’s own. But Jon and Arya are again, GRRM’s third and final parallel, and are thus the subversion of death and the maiden, as an in-depth analysis here describes.

How this manifests in their ending is still yet to be seen, but Bael and his Stark maiden, Lyanna and Rhaegar, all had sons who ruled the North after them, even if they don’t believe it themselves and think it’s for others.

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." / Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." - Eddard V, AGOT

"King," croaked the raven. The bird flapped across the solar to land on Mormont's shoulder. "King," it said again, strutting back and forth. / "I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord." - Jon I, ACOK

#canonarya #canonjonsnow #valyrianscrolls #aryastarkmonth2022 #jon snow #arya stark #jon x arya #lyanna stark #asoiaf meta #jonrya #needleheart #aj:meta

[buttercuparry]

You reblogging all this jonrya content feels like a personal attack agaisnt me to pull me back into the fandom. How dare you make me want to be active in the jonrya fandom again.

No but seriously JONRYA = 💖💖💖 thanks for all the nostalgia 🥰

Aww nonnie you are welcome 🌸 I never really gave up on my jonrya agenda 😏😂

But seriously I am glad you felt the rush of nostalgia. I was feeling some type of way today and I revisited all those theories we used to gush about in the past. It honestly felt so good to once again remind myself why exactly I fell in love with the ship ❤ I am glad I could share this mood with you.

#jonrya is my forever #I was feeling bad about another fandom and honestly felt so much better after reading through the jonrya meta and fics

[breathetoseethetruth]

I won't lie, I am very over Asoiaf let alone GoT (have been for years), but then sometimes I'll just stumble over a fantastic Jonrya meta post or art piece and I'm just HIT in the feels 🥺

#jonrya #jon x arya

[ludcake]

6 + 20 for ask violence?

which ship fans are the most annoying? part of canon you found tedious or boring

For ASOIAF/HotD, I gotta tell you, the most annoying ship fans are... The Jon Snow hypercube ships. I'm not naming any specific one because I think they all suck and the way they dominate discourse is awful. Specifically Jonsa, Jonrya and Jonaerys - I find them all incredibly annoying, particularly with how they dominate the narrative with their ship of choice in their discourse and meta - it's just not to my taste on how I ship things, and frankly, it bothers me how central they see their ships, to the point of dismissing other storylines.

In terms of parts of the canon I thought tedious or boring, I'm excluding the parts of canon I thought were just plain bad and poorly written - or even insane. I think that the tedious and boring parts of canon really is... 90% of Fire & Blood. The remaining 10% are collectively hallucinated into a good version of it where details that are barely mentioned turn into these vivid characterisations and long themes. I think that Sons of the Dragon is dry and boring, that the Reign of the Conciliator tells very little and barely touches on the interesting implications, the Dance is somehow less fun than when it was written as the Princess and the Queen and the Regency is only interesting if you're reading it for laughs due to how insane Unwin Peake is. The fact that people complain about Bran's chapters and then fixate on Fire&Blood is crazy.

For DC... Most annoying ship fans are the people who imported Penguin/Riddler from Gotham sorry. It's fucking unbearable. Shipping discourse sucks in DC in general but I actually like old school Penguin and Riddler so it annoys me. I guess people who insist on like, Tim/Steph are also annoying, but less so.

Parts of canon I think are tedious and boring......... God. Can we just, agree to ignore every single crisis event ever? Even Final Crisis, which is my favourite of the bunch, was less interesting than Grant Morrison's initial idea of changing the New Gods after Death of the New Gods. They're always boring, uninspired and prone to full on character assassination in my opinion.

#.txt #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #anon ask #fire and blood #hotd #ask violence #dc comics #final crisis

[laurellerual]

why do you think/say gendrya has all the tropes of the romance genre???? also, do you think jonrya will or could happen?

Romance tropes in Gendry and Arya relationship

The Family: Baratheon and Stark have a tragic love story (which we later find out isn't quite like that, but that's how it's told to begin with).

The love interest meet the father first and the mother second: Gendry meet Lord Eddard and Lady Stonheart.

The first meeting: the boy intervenes to protect the protagonist from bullies.

The hidden identity: the protagonist is disguised as a boy, only the love interest realizes the deception.

Forced coexistence: these two would never have met if it hadn't been for fate (the author) that forced them to embark on a journey together and have only each other to count on. And don't tell me Hot pie etc, … because Arya doesn't confide everything she does to her other supporting cast. She only have this relationship of trust with Gendry.

The protagonist goes to save her love interest: when Gendry is captured by the Mountain.

The children: Weasel is adopted and rescued by them. In the hierarchical dynamic that is established in this improvised pack the two take on the role of mom and dad.

Flirty banters: too many to write here.

Boy sees girl in a dress for the first time: Acorn Hall.

The two are too young to write them in a context of more explicit romantic tension so: rolling on the floor for no reason, tickling and ripped dress.

Insurmountable conflict: class difference

The love interest protects the protagonist from unwanted sexual attention.

Feelings begin to change: 'you are not my brother'

Everyone notices their dynamic except them: See the Brotherhood who gave Arya Lem as a chaperon.

Song that is sung to them and is clearly inspired by their situation: 'My featherbed'.

Innocent jealousy: Edric and Bella.

Misunderstanding at the end of Act II; the obstacles that have accumulated explode: conversation in the forge 'can you be a blacksmith for my brother', 'too lowborn to be kin to mylady high', 'I don't even care about you'.

Premature separation without a good bye: Arya is kidnapped by the Hound on her way to Riverrun (not too far from where Lyanna was abducted, probably on her way to Riverrun for Brandon and Cat's wedding).

The love interest waits parked in the last place where the protagonist has left a clear sign of her presence: (the bloodstain on the floor of the Crossroad inn). He's protecting the children like Arya would have want.

I'm sure that if I thought about it more I would find others too, but for now the list seems exhaustive enough. ASOIAF is not a romance story and Arya and Gendry are too young to play too much into that. Yet the writer decided to dedicate a lot of otherwise useless scenes to this relationship. Something have to happen in Act III to give them closure.

Jonrya

Despite all this I think Jon x Arya is not an unreasonable prediction. I admit that on first reading I had interpreted their relationship as entirely platonic.

When I found out about the 1993 outline I was surprised. The fact that Martin didn't take well to that being leaked is suspicious. Rereading the books after reading the outline it seems clear that he has reused and recycled several points and concepts that make it difficult for me not to consider Jonrya as a possible future.

Then the fandom worked its magic: there's a lot of well-argued meta in the Jonrya side of tumblr. So even if I prefer Gendrya to Jonrya I don't think the latter can be totally excluded until we read ADOS, that is never.

#arya stark #gendry #gendry waters #jon snow #gendrya #arya x gendry #jonrya #arya x jon

[queenaryastark]

Arya Multi-Shipping Event Vibe Check

Would anyone be interested in participating in an appreciation week or long weekend centered on Arya shipping? I was thinking of an event with multiple prompts leading up to Valentine's Day. It could include edits, fic, fanart, meta, videos, etc on any Arya ships whether canon (Gendrya, Jonrya, Nedrya, etc) or crackships (Arya/Tommen, Arya/Dany, Arya/Trystane, Arya/Aegon, etc). Please like or reblog if you're interested.

#arya stark #gendrya #jonrya #asoiaf #given how dead the fandom is i understand if its not something many have the time or effort to participate in #i may just do a series of edits with arya ships leading up to Valentine's Day

[agentrouka-blog]

Do u think jonrya could actually happen? Sometimes i stumble upon metas abt it and i get paranoid. It would ruin the series for me, honestly. I see quotes from adwd alot used as ‘evidence’.

No.

Arya. Is. Eleven. As late as parts of book 6 out of 7. It's not happening.

2. She is the beloved "little sister". She is the Lyanna to Jon's Ned. They have a very well developed and emphasized sibling relationship in the text.

3. Nothing about her arc suggests that romantic devotion, marriage or childbirth will be significant factors for her at any point before the books conclude. Like Bran, her path is that of a magical child navigating a world shaped by cruel adults - and having to choose whether to embrace or reject that cruelty in her own abilities. Her introductory conflict was with the confining expectations placed on her, her greatest joy pre-catastrophe lay in untethered exploration. There is no thematic bookend being created in an endgame romance plot.

4. They look alike. GRRM's not playing copy-cat with Jaime and Cersei, or the Targaryens, in that regard. You don't do "pseudo-sibling-incest foil with a cousin marriage escape clause" and then make sure they look EXTREMELY RELATED.

If you find their evidence convincing, you're obviously free to worry. I know before I really read the books and even had a proper sense of the timeline and age development, I was briefly concerned, simply because the theory seemed way more popular than it actually is. Probably because of that "original timeline". Then I began to really read the books, and pay attention to themes and arcs.

Three years later, I am even more confident of jonrya absolutely not happening than I am even about jonsa. And I am Very Very Serene about the inevitability of jonsa.

#anti jonrya

[leulah]

why would jonsa happen in the books? sansa is not even importnant, she is just going to be lady lannister to the northerns

i’m not the best with words to go into the whole thing, plus i don’t think you really want to hear my reasoning so i will just link a meta here !

i personally like it bc i like the dramatics of them not being as close as kids, having grown up and apart into two completely different ppl from when they left winterfell, and finding some sort of home again in each other. i prefer it over jonrya, the same reason fans of it don’t like jonsa, bc jon and sansa weren’t close growing up. that’s not to say they hated each other- they only think fondly of each other and have good memories- but sansa and jon were the least close of everyone and i think it’s interesting. i like the ned x cat parallel bc they look like them, i like their story lines being similar, i like them both dreaming of a quiet happy family named after lost family members, so on so forth. i see it happening more as political marriage in the beginning instead of some big romance story line.

with that being said sansa is important or else she wouldn’t be a pov character in the first place. hell robb was one of the major players in the war of five kings and wasn’t a pov character. u think she is gonna be lady lannister but don’t forget she is a stark- the last living one for all they know. yea she was lady lannister for a bit but she also has supposedly helped kill joffrey so i think she gets northern points for that. she is not the same little girl that went south, but has returned stronger and fierce and knowledgeable.

of all the starks she is one best built to lead in my own opinion. people say she’s evil bc her mentors have been cersei and littlefinger, but neglect the fact that sansa is still kindhearted and a good soul. bc while she learned how to lie and get ahead, she also learned what not to do from them (ie. “i will make them love me” from her convo with cersei).

people try to say that she’s not part of the “five central characters” so she’s not important. like girl that’s from the original draft in 1993. she’s tied for fifth for overall chapters with catelyn- let it go.

#also idk i don’t need a ship to be canon to enjoy it maybe that’s just me #if when ados ever comes out and 96% of the fandom is losing their mind bc of some ship #i’ll be liek that guy on the space craft cruising through explosions #like i want things to be canon obvi but i also like don’t care if it’s not fjhdjd #as long as the starks survive i’m all good #sansa stark #pro sansa stark #asoiaf #answered #anon #holly talks #wait #jonsa

[rise-my-angel]

The thing about being anti jonsa and anti jonerys, is that when fellow anti jonsa's start going through my posts because they liked my opinions, they end up finding my anti jonerys posts, and vise versa. And considering so many anti jonsas are pro jonerys and anti jonerys are pro jonsa, they see how vocal I am about their sacred cow and get mad that I apply my standards of criticizing one ship they dont like, to the other ship that they do like.

Tldr: I just got blocked by a very popular blog that is fairly pro jonsa just 2 weeks after being blocked by a different fairly popular pro jonerys blog. And I think its really funny, I get like 10 notes per meta post but my takes are appparently just too spicy so everyone hates me.

Next thing I know the Jonrya blogs are gonna start blocking me, oh no anything but that

#its so funny the longer im in the fandom the more popular jonsa or jonerys blogs that block me #like how you even finding my posts to block fam i literally tag it in the anti sections #sometimes i just have to screenshot their posts so i can remember to say something about that topic later #because i cant reblog it cus all the jon snow incest shippers hate me and its so funny to me #why is incest the sacred cow of jon snow shippers #anti jonsa #anti jonerys #anti jonsa stans #anti sansa stans #anti dany stans #anti jonrya

[esther-dot]

When i first entered this fandom, and came face to face with the sansan and jonryas, and saw how they explained their ship, i couldn't see the romance in them (the age, non-compatible characters, pedofile, etc), until i read a meta of jonsa!

Personally, i feel inclined to ship m/m and not f/m, because i don't feel a connection with them and they are boring, but even me can see the literary romance in sansa chapters and her "coincidences" with Jon and Snow 😉 Unlike me, yall %💯 have a canon ship (and sorry not sorry @rya doesn't even have a romance pinch in her), don't let them say otherwise!!

Aw! This is so sweet of you to say! Sansa’s fears about no one loving her for herself and Jon’s desire for love and family —a wife and child— need to be answered in canon imo, so I think Jonsa is something that will happen in the books too.

I haven’t read much beyond Jonsa, but if you have some favorite ASOIAF m/m fanfics, I’d love to read a few!

#ask dot

[sherlokiness]

Choose your death: death by being forced to hear every single J0nrya complaint about Sansa or being forced to read every single Aegony truther meta.

Why are you doing this to me?????

If I really have to, then I guess I'd pick the latter. I've seen every Aegony truth there could possibly be. This is the lesser evil imo. Jonrya complaints otoh... We will never escape the fave sister discourse even though we've emphasized we're in the fave wife one.

#anti-aegony #my asks #my godddd #this is torture

[aryajon]

JON SNOW’S CONFLICT BETWEEN LOVE AND DUTY + KNIVES

In the events leading up to his betrayal, Jon feels metaphorical knives in his body twice as he struggles in his conflict between duty and love. This conflict eventually results in Jon being stabbed to death by his brothers in black, with callbacks to those metaphorical moments.

Once for duty:

When Jon realises he must keep a distance from his men after being made Lord Commander - and thus, allowing duty to prevail over his own personal desires - Jon compares the conflicted feeling to a knife in his belly.

"I'll see that he's more careful," Grenn promised, "and I'll clout him if he's not." He hesitated. "My lord, will you sup with us? Owen, shove over and make room for Jon."

Jon wanted nothing more. No, he had to tell himself, those days are gone. The realization twisted in his belly like a knife. They had chosen him to rule. The Wall was his, and their lives were his as well. A lord may love the men that he commands, he could hear his lord father saying, but he cannot be a friend to them - JON III, ADWD

The first knife to stab him is in the belly.

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it. - JON XIII, ADWD

Once for love:

Arya plays a repeated role as Jon’s heart, both linguistically and metaphorically, as outlined in a meta by @etherealdany. ADWD sees Jon struggle with his attachment to Arya in light of news that she has apparently been married to Ramsay Bolton to secure the North. Duty calls for him to do nothing, but he loves her too much to let her go.

"I have no sister." The words were knives. What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister? - JON VI

His last thought before the final knife kills him is of Arya, his heart, reflected in the very first lesson he gave her at the start of the series and a repeated motif whenever he remembers her.

Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold … - JON XIII

#canonjonsnow #canonarya #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta #jon snow #arya stark #jon x arya #jonrya #aj:meta

[buttercuparry]

im sorry but whose fault is that arya is seeing by the fandom as a kid? i've read fics about arya written by arya stans and its always the same: arya being ugly (being seen as ugly even by her own love interest, her own love interest admits sansa is more beautiful than her, etc) which its a lie because arya is beautiful in the books, she was just a child at the start of the series. i have read arya being an infuriating smart ass, arya being a wild thing who insults everyone and hates other women and hates to wear dresses and is always dirty or mean. i stopped reading fics about her to read fics about sansa even if i dont give a shit about her bc sometimes her fics are more mature, idc if she never meets jon in the books, the writers do a really good job portraying jon being in love with her and thats all i care and want to read in a fic where they are the main pairing. that doesnt happen in jonrya fics and its sad bc they have so much evidence in the books.

I don't know why you came into my inbox.

I mean if you like reading jonsa fics and find jonrya fics to be lacking, then that depends on your personal tastes.

Like what was your thought process here? Did you want me to argue with you on how jonrya fics are the best form of art (TM) and scream how wrong it is of you to find it lacking? lmao.

I personally find jonrya fics to be scrumptious. Even if in those fics the author chooses to say that yes, Arya is not the fairest of them all: even then. And do you know why is that? Because that is true. Arya is not the fairest maid in Westeros. Neither was Lyanna. But our frustration comes when your people has repeatedly tried to impress on a stupid theory that Arya is too ugly to be loved, too wild to be loved and therefore it is impossible for her and Lyanna to look alike. Lyanna was a wild beauty but Cersei is said to be much more beautiful than her. Dany with her Targaryen features is canonically one of the best looking woman in perhaps the whole Planetos. But both of these facts do not take away from either Arya or Lyanna. Do not pretend that you who has read their fics, perhaps even went about in their circles, don't know that they have the tendency to push the, "why would Jon look at Arya if Sansa is there". As if Jonrya hinges on Jon losing his heart over Arya's beauty.

And yes, you asked whose fault it is that Arya is seen as a kid? Well tell me then why whenever we discuss Arya's potential love interests, edit any love scene for jonrya or gendrya, write metas or smutty fics of an aged up Arya or generally fool around with any ship regarding Arya, why do we have people coming into our inboxes, calling us pedophiles for sexualizing an 11 year old. Why was there a shock over show!Arya initiating intimacy with Gendry because apparently to them Arya was a kid?

And yes you are right even within our circle, we have had certain Arya Stans who had on them a stronger impression of the fanon/show version of Arya than of the actual canon version of Arya, but lmao none of them villainize Arya the way jonsas do. None of them villainize Arya for being the wild thing she is, for wanting to live as she wants, for not falling in line with Sansa's ideals. And I think you too have missed the point of my earlier post.

Arya is not just pretty girl. I wasn't screaming about people's inability to see Arya as such (as much as it frustrates me that they cling to the label of horseface that her bullies gave to her). My post was about people thinking Arya needs to be a prettiest girl in the whole of Westeros to have romance storyline, because they can't see a rebellious woman, a woman who has refused to bind herself in the narrow constructs of society ever wanting a family of her own. Ever wanting a lover whom she desires.

Also yeah there is this constant tussle, almost an obsession among your preferred faction to put Sansa at the highest pedestal when it comes to beauty and us even mentioning that: hey Arya is pretty as well sets them off in hilarious ways..

#I don't even know what the point of this ask was but oh well... #arya stark #I can't even say that it's all because of her getting in the way of their ship because they do this with gendrya too

[jackoshadows]

How come you're more accepting of SanSan than Bra/ime? If Brienne deserves better than Jaime, then Sansa deserves better than Sandor. If Braime is bad because of the age difference, so is Sansan.

I don't care about SanSan because I don't care about either Sansa or Sandor as characters.  I don't ship it, I don't have a problem with people who ship it. I am indifferent to everything Sansa.

SanSan is a canon ship. The author has mentioned playing around with it in the books. Sansa is imagining kissing the Hound and making up kisses - the Unkiss - in her mind. Sansa is attracted to the Hound. They have a beauty and beast theme.

However, I find it ridiculous that SanSan shippers (Sansa is 11/12 when the Hound first meets her) are policing the fandom on how Arya should not be called 'pretty' because apparently that's sexualizing her and we are therefore pedophiles for pointing out that both Ned and Jon called Arya 'pretty' in the books.

And secondly considering that some of the most popular ships in the fandom are SanSan and Braime, it's ridiculously hypocritical for people to single out, mock and bully Rhaegar/Lyanna shippers for age gaps and attack people because their ships have abuse or incest or consent issues and all that when 90% of the ships in this series are problematic.

With respect to Braime, I actually like Brienne as a character. I am invested in Brienne and her journey. I think Brienne deserves a much better person who loves her for who she is. However, just like with SanSan, Braime is a canon ship. While I dislike the ship, I have no issues with the people who ship it. I acknowledge that Jaime is important to Brienne and her character arc. Unless it's in response to an anon ask, I rarely talk about Braime. It's just not my cup of tea.

So that's the difference. I don't care about SanSan because I don't care about either Sansa or Sandor as characters. On the other hand, I like Brienne and as a fan I want to see her character interact with another kinder, handsome chap or a fellow lady who likes the sword.

This comes back to my point about how I can only ship characters I like. I ship Jonrya because I like both Jon and Arya. I ship Jon and Dany because I like both Jon and Dany. I don't ship Braime because I don't like Jaime. I don't ship SanSan because I couldn't care less about Sansa or Sandor.

I don't understand shippers who hate one half of their pairing - like Jonsa for ex. It makes no sense to me. And also Jonsa is just all around terrible. A bunch of toxic shippers who sit around hating every character not named Sansa in order to somehow shove their obnoxious crack ship into the books with badly written fanfiction masquerading as 'Metas' and theories.

I may not like SanSan but it IS canon unlike Jonsa.

I can understand why someone who likes Sansa does not want to ship Sansa with all the characters that GRRM has paired with her - Sandor, Tyrion, Littlefinger, Harry the Heir etc. And hence Jonsa. Unfortunately for these Sansa fans, Jonsa is not the story the author is telling. Sansa has no connection with Jon whatsoever.

I would love to see Brienne and Alysanne Mormont meet in the future (I liked Aly's interaction with Asha in ADwD) and think she would have good chemistry with Brienne.  Brienne fell for Renly because he was kind towards her. Maybe if no Lord learns to appreciate her for who she is, it will be a Lady. Maybe she meets Willas Tyrell who is intelligent and kind. As much as I loathe the show, Brienne/Tormund >>> Braime. Tormund appreciated Brienne for the Goddess she is, even if she didn’t reciprocate. However you don't see me writing metas about how Bri/Aly is going to happen in the books do you? Because Brienne/Alysanne or Brienne/Willas Tyrell or Brienne/Tormund has as much chance of happening in the books as Jonsa.

So Jonsa is never going to be canon and hating on Arya, Dany and any character close to Jon and mutating book Jon into an unrecognizable blob is not going to help and all it is doing is turning the rest of fandom against them.

GRRM is an old white guy writing the popular 90's bodice ripper trope of 'forced seduction' with his couples - yes, even with Jon/Ygritte. Ygritte is older and essentially forces Jon to sleep with her. GRRM thinks Dany/Drogo is consensual seduction. Yes, this is problematic. However many shippers also like this trope and that is why they enjoy SanSan. Does not mean SanSan shippers are endorsing abuse. Fiction is not reality.

The most annoying thing about Braime/SanSan ships is the Sandor and Jaime apologism from some people. Basically, folks who try and twist things to make Jaime/Sandor out to be nice guys and write long posts about why Sandor and Jaime trying to kill children is justified and makes sense and poor, poor bby Jaime was manipulated and used by evil bitch Cersei and it’s not his fault etc.  I would rather folks acknowledge that these characters have done terrible things and GRRM is writing a pretty basic, old fashioned ‘the love of a woman changes them for the better’ romance arc. Nothing new or trope busting about these ships. They have been around since forever in romance novels.

#asks

[hewantshisbrideback]

Can’t get that quote from Ser Barristan Selmy out of my head, in relation to Jon... The one about madness and greatness and the gods flipping a coin. Obviously I don’t think the Targaryens have ‘madness’ in their blood, at least none that isn’t implicitly related to inbreeding (and even then, George, you can’t keep picking and choosing what genetics stuff you keep/toss out...)

But what I do think is possible is that Jon will come back with an obsession with Arya (similar to Stoneheart and Dondarrion). Once his parentage is revealed, I think his guilt about his feelings for her may get jumbled up with his hurt about having been lied to by Ned and his complicated feelings about being Rhaegar’s and Lyanna’s son.

Imagine somebody, maybe Bran or Melisandre, or just someone who doesn’t want Daenerys on the throne, trying to use the “when a new Targaryen is born, the gods toss a coin and the world holds it breath” line on Jon, trying to convince him to pursue the throne, and he just laughs to himself and asks “Tell me, do you think they flip it again if you’ve been reborn?” And they try to backpedal and say that he’s got Targaryen blood but he’s also a Stark, and was raised one as well, and he just looks away, thinking about the dark things he feels for Arya, and replies, “I think there is more dragon in me than you know.”

And then later Daenerys and he meet and she is like, “Um, please don’t blame my house for your weirdness? Have you considered the fact that you are literally undead? I think it may be more that.”

#jonrya #jon snow #asoiaf #pureasoiaf #valyrianscrolls #hewantshisposts #hewantshismeta #thewishlistofwinter #jon snow meta #jonrya meta #asoiaf meta #jon targaryen #jon stark #twow #the winds of winter #ados