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atopvisenyashill · 6 months

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Is Lyanna really as terrible as some people portray her as?

no, not even a little bit.

the absolute most important thing about lyanna is that when she dies she is only 16. i am someone who works with kids - i work in a library so i spend most of my days cleaning up after tweens and asking teenagers to please stop doing dumb shit- and the first thing anyone who has ever worked with kids and especially teenagers is that they may look like adults but they are NOT. they don’t understand boundaries, they have next to zero impulse control, and every bad thing that happens feels like the worst thing ever because it very likely IS the worst thing they’ve ever experienced bc they have not been alive that long!

and this goes for every single teen & tween character in this series, not just lyanna! shit, i am someone who feels an immense amount of sympathy for joffrey! on one side he’s got his mother telling him he can do anything he wants with no repercussions and on the other he’s got his father hitting him so hard that stannis thought joffrey was going to die. and then he is given unchecked power and told not to abuse it! EYE cannot even guarantee that i wouldn’t use unchecked power to do shady shit and i am a fully grown adult, not a traumatized, irrationally, and deeply vindictive 13 year old boy.

but honestly the most important thing about lyanna is that we have ZERO CONTEXT for what happens between her and Rhaegar. What we have is

Ned’s sparse & guilt ridden thoughts about Lyanna and one (1) comment about Rhaegar

Robert’s angry, entitled, and grief ridden outbursts about Lyanna and Rhaegar

Barristan’s incredibly romanticized, guilt & grief ridden take on their relationship

Meera’s second hand account of Lyanna, told to her by a father who is likely just as guilt & grief ridden as the others, who likely has his own view of Lyanna

What’s important to note is that our view of her is heavily filtered through the eyes of the men that knew her. Robert loves an idealized version of her that never existed. Barristan never actually knew her. Ned is not only viewing her under 200 layers of guilt and grief, but very obviously does not understand his sister, or why she made the choices she did, and struggles constantly with knowing that he will never know her the way he wishes he could, the way he thought he did. Given the way Meera describes Lyanna, I actually think Howland is our most accurate look at her but even that is buried behind years of grief & a fair amount of hero worship and affection (“that’s my fathers man you’re kicking howled the she-wolf” is a line that makes me WEEP for this exact reason; Howland sees Lyanna as his hero above all else!).

All of that to say - we don't even know what Lyanna did that was so terrible! Even if she was a grown woman capable of making rational decisions, we have no idea what her decisions were. She could have been lied to, misled, kidnapped, threatened, just as surely as she could have walked into the situation with open eyes. Even in the show, with a slightly aged up Lyanna - we get, what, just Sam's opinion on Rhaegar and Lyanna being in love because they got hitched? Completely ignoring the fact that we had several women in this series get married not because they were in love or willing but because someone more powerful decided on it and that was that, so there's still no evidence that Lyanna had enough information about the situation to make any sort of informed, consensual decision.

so no, i do not hold lyanna responsible for anything at all that happened regardless of how it happened because she was not mentally mature enough to understand what the hell was going on. a 15 year old is just not mature enough to think “if i run off with this married man, it’s going to cause a cascade of political issues that could have disastrous consequences.” what she’s probably thinking is “this man says he can help me and i am fucking miserable and no one else will listen.” it’s why we don’t throw 15 year olds who run away to meet up with old dudes they met online in jail when they’re caught (or theoretically why we don’t punish them at any rate). There is one person and one person only who is responsible for the massive fuck up that is the Elia-Rhaenys-Aegon-Lyanna-Jon mess and that is RHAEGAR, the person with the most amount of power who used it in the dumbest way imaginable and got himself, most of his heirs, his wife, and his teenaged mistress killed. The only other people responsible are the Kingsguard who kept Lyanna under lock and key while she lay dying and pleading for her brother to come save her.

#lyanna stark #anti rhaegar targaryen #valyrianscrolls #gender politics in asoiaf #mariages in asoiaf #asks #anons

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warsofasoiaf · 2 years

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Hi! About Lyanna...I understand that she was forced into marriage with a man not of her choosing. But surely she could not have been matched to the altar at sword point. By all accounts, her brothers were loving and supportive. Rage against your father and twist the alliance, insult Robert to his face and make it clear to him you aren’t entering this mariage of your own accord...Anything, ANYTHING would have been better than running off without a word to your family with the married crown prince. We’re told that Lyanna was a bright and wilful young woman. If she believed that Rhaegar would reinstall polygamy for the sake of their love then she’s either stupid or horribly selfish. If she believed that Rhaegar would shelter her until the betrothal with Robert is broken then she’s even more stupid than I think. Rhaegar is a POS through and through, but a lot of the posts I’ve seen wave off all blame from Lyanna because of her age. 15 is really not that young, especially in asoiaf where you have child war commanders. She bears her part of the blame too.

No. She doesn't.

-SLAL

#lyanna stark

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joanna-lannister · 1 year

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Marrant comment tout d'un coup le fandom prône l'autonomie sexuelle et loue l'audace de Rhaenyra, clame partout qu'elle a raison de ne pas accepter que son corps soit contrôlé, que les lois qui traitent les femmes comme des objets, des possessions et les enfants nés hors mariage comme des sous-hommes sont censées être enfreintes. Parce que lorsque Cersei fait la même chose, c'est une traînée et un monstre.

Et puis bon, ASOIAF a été publié en 1996/GOT est sorti en 2011. Feu et Sang a été publié en 2018/HOTD est sorti en 2022. Il est à peu près certain que Cersei a servi d'inspiration pour le personnage de Rhaenyra (un fils illégitime qui se nomme Joffrey n'est pas le seul point commun qu'elles partagent).

Les doubles standards dans ce fandom sont aberrant. A vomir. Rhaenyra est considérée comme une icône féministe, alors que bon elle a un certain privilège que les autres [Cersei y compris] n'ont pas, mais Cersei qui revendique l'autonomie de son propre corps après avoir subi des violences conjugales est toujours traitée à ce jour comme une traînée et un monstre comme tu l'as si bien dit. La raison derrière cette différence de traitement est tellement évidente... 🥴 Et désolée mais, c'est encore plus marrant quand Rhaenyra n'a en aucun cas la complexité que Cersei a.

Par contre, je ne suis pas sûre que ce soit en raison de la date de publication des livres ou de sortie des séries que Cersei et Rhaenyra ont ce genre de parallèles. Je pense qu'ils ont été fait exprès, mais je peux toujours me tromper.

#toujours là to call out ce fandom 😂#anon #answered

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indisden · 3 years

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ASOIAF Minor Ladies Week 2021 - Day 6 - the Reach @asoiafminorhouses @asoiafwomensource

Ceryse Hightower was the first wife of Maegor Targaryen, still Prince of Dragonstone at the time of her wedding. Their mariage remained childless, while Maegor’s half-brother Aenys had several healthy children. After the birth of Aenys’ sixth child, Vaella, Maegor declared Ceryse barren and took Alys Harroway as second wife. After Maegor usurped the Iron Throne from his nephew in 42, Ceryse became Queen for a short while - before mysteriously dying in 45. It was rumoured that it had been an order of Maegor.

#minorladiesweek2021 #ceryse hightower #house hightower #houses of westeros #ASOIAF Houses #women of asoiaf #asoiafedit #preasoiafedit #preasoiaf moodboard #preasoiaf #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf #moodboard #icons #asoiaf moodboard #asoiaf fancast

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ao3feed-briennejaime · 4 years

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Gloire à celui qui a de l'espoir.

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/36NdV2R

by AngelicaR2

[Secret Santa 2019/2020 – Collectif NONAME] : UA. Brienne espérait échapper à son destin en remportant ce tournoi et éviter ainsi un mariage arrangé (et puis ce n’était pas comme si quelqu’un pouvait avoir envie de l’épouser elle). Elle ne s’attendait clairement pas à trouver l’amour au cours de ce dernier. Braime.

Words: 2387, Chapters: 1/9, Language: Français

Fandoms: Game of Thrones (TV)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M

Characters: Jaime Lannister, Brienne of Tarth, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Tywin Lannister, Lancel Lannister, Selwyn Tarth, Original Female Character(s), Original House Lannister Character(s), Original House Tarth Character(s), Original Child Character(s), Original Jaime Lannister/Brienne of Tarth Child(ren)

Relationships: Jaime Lannister/Brienne of Tarth, Jaime Lannister & Tyrion Lannister, Cersei Lannister & Jaime Lannister, Jaime Lannister & Barristan Selmy, Jaime Lannister & Aerys II Targaryen, Jaime Lannister & Original Female Character(s), Brienne of Tarth & Selwyn Tarth, Brienne of Tarth & Original Female Character(s), Jaime Lannister & Brienne of Tarth & Original Character(s), Tyrion Lannister & Brienne of Tarth, Robert Baratheon/Cersei Lannister

Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Alternate Universe - Different First Meeting, Tournaments, Aerys Is His Own Warning, Robert's Rebellion, POV Jaime Lannister, Past Cersei Lannister/Jaime Lannister, Jaime Lannister Needs a Hug, Protective Jaime Lannister, POV Brienne of Tarth, Brienne of Tarth is the Best, Endgame Jaime Lannister/Brienne of Tarth, BAMF Brienne of Tarth, BAMF Jaime Lannister, Knight Brienne of Tarth, Pregnant Brienne of Tarth, Implied/Referenced Character Death, Implied/Referenced Domestic Violence, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Rape/Non-con, Alternate Timelines, Timeline What Timeline, Older Brienne of Tarth, Young Brienne of Tarth, young jaime lannister, Secret Identity, Identity Reveal, Mistaken Identity, Secret Santa, Weddings, Angst, Fluff and Angst, Angst with a Happy Ending, Angst and Humor, Drama, Idiots in Love, Oblivious Jaime Lannister, Oblivious Brienne of Tarth, Slow Burn, Matchmaking, House Lannister, Tarth (ASoIaF)

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/36NdV2R

#IFTTT #ao3feed #fanfic #jaime x brienne #braime

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tatticstudio55 · 6 years

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Moved chat pt 4

@mollyraesly

Alright, let’s see:

“Thanks for responding. I’ll try to do this in a logical order. (1) Dany herself says that if she looks back she is lost. Her character’s drive to be constantly moving forward serves her plot-wise but it also makes her a conqueror. Dragons plant no trees. (2) you say Jon can act as a moderating force. But we’ve seen no character really do this perfectly. Dany goes off the rails. (3) dragonfire. George himself compared the dragons to nuclear weapons. Sure, this might be a faster Death, but it’s also a crime of war. Cause no one else can retaliate with dragons. (Excepting the Night King now). It’s not just to use dragons against those who can’t compete (4) if you believe Dany doesn’t want the IT and wouldn’t enjoy being Queen, why do you want her in Westeros? Wouldn’t she be happier in Essos? I guess the question is—would Jon go to Essos with her? I do think that in the series’ own rules, cousins marrying is permitted (see Tywin) but Aunt/nephew is not. Genetically the latter is closer related, and also, since Targaryens are already much more inbred, Dany and jon would share even more dna than usual. I object to targ incest more because we’ve seen the disaster it has caused the realm. To champion this again seems strange. I appreciate your dialogue, but a lot of the political points you make seem to support jon and Sansa. This is how jon can be a Stark without usurping her. So what im wondering is—what can Dany offer Jon that Sansa can’t? Why should I root for that ending? We’ve seen in the books that Jon dreams of having a boy that he can name Robb. Would Dany help him with that?”

1) She does (is), until she doesn’t (isn’t). The show got ahead of the book, so if we want to go with Dany’s latest psychological evolution, we really have no choice but to base ourselves on the show’s evidences.

2) When Dany goes off the rails, what do you mean exactly?

3) You’re right, dragons vs humans isn’t a fair fight. But then again, if your opponent has an army 5x larger than yours (no dragons, just humans vs humans), is that fair? The sad thing about war is that it ultimately boils down to who’s the strongest. True, there’s laws regulating wars (today, anyway), but no law states that both party must be of equal strength before they start fighting. If one party is clearly at a disadvantage, they have 3 choices: surrender, die fighting, or surrender now and retaliate later with means other than brute strength. The problem with the Tarly is, they couldn’t be treated as POW because they refused to surrender (that’s what it mean to bend the knee). Dany would’ve committed a war crime if 1) she had burned those who had already knelt to her, or 2) if she had burned sick or injured soldiers, who weren’t in a state to make political decisions. But she didn’t.

4) Would Jon go to Essos with her? I don’t know. Dany herself might be ok with that. Now whether or not Jon would be ok with that is another question.

5) The incest question is inconvenient, I admit. Ideally, I would prefer if they weren’t related (and I think most Jonerys fan would agree with me here). There’s nothing we can do about that, and there’s nothing they can do about that. Now, mixing science and ASOIAF usually ends in a rabbit hole. If the story was scientifically coherent, Dany would be like Carlos of Spain, both mentally and physically - and even Carlos of Spain wasn’t as inbreed as Dany. So she’d be worse than him. She would never have been able to get pregnant with Drogo’s child. Actually, she probably would’ve died in childhood of some genetically recessive disease, so... yeah.

Speaking of pregnancies, I have a theory (just a theory) that if all 3 dragons (Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion) died, Dany would be able to get pregnant again. I won’t get into this here because I already discussed it a previous post. I do, though, believe that there’s a good chance for all 3 of them to be dead by the end of the story. For the rest, we’ll have to see. Now, romance matters aside, a Jon/Sansa mariage would indeed have, for Jon, one major advantage over a Jon/Dany marriage: Jon get to stay in Winterfell. I guess the real question isn’t only about who can offer the most, but about who Jon is actually in love with. Politically, it wouldn’t really make a difference for the North itself: Jon would either be King/Warden of the North, or King of the seven kingdoms, including the North.

#game of thrones #jonerys #daenerys targaryen #jon snow

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ao3jamiexbrienne · 4 years

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Gloire à celui qui a de l'espoir.

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/36NdV2R

by AngelicaR2

Words: 2387, Chapters: 1/9, Language: Français

Fandoms: Game of Thrones (TV)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/36NdV2R

#IFTTT #ao3feed #fanfic #jamiexbrienne #jamie lannister #brienne of tarth #jamie/brienne #the maid #w

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ao3feed-tywin · 4 years

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Gloire à celui qui a de l'espoir.

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/36NdV2R

by AngelicaR2

Words: 2387, Chapters: 1/9, Language: Français

Fandoms: Game of Thrones (TV)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/36NdV2R

#ao3feed #fanfic #ao3feed tywin #ao3feed tywin lannister

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