#miguel o'hara is THE ANTAGONIST he is not THE VILLAIN | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

fangswbenefits · 8 months

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Your post about twitter being morons hit my analysis nerd button. So I gonna ramble here a bit if that's okay;; it's probably going to get long >.>

The thing that people seem to be flagrantly ignoring is the difference between a Villain and an Antagonist. Because while they tend to overlap in a lot of media, they're quite different things. An Antagonist is at its base someone who is in contention with or opposes another (and in literary situations is in specific opposed to our protagonist). A Villain has multiple definitions, those being a character who opposes the hero of the story, a deliberate scoundrel or criminal, or the one blamed for a particular sort of evil. There is overlap, but not every antagonist is a villain (kind of like every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square)

Now, the big thing is, both villains and antagonists can be traditionally good, evil or anywhere in between which pulls even bigger sets of nuance to it.

So let's look at Spiderverse. We've got a lot of antagonists in this movie, but really only two villains. Because only two characters are acting out of pure malace. And that is The Spot, and The Vulture. Both are out there deliberately harming others, causing destruction. Now looking at antagonists, technically, most characters in this movie could be considered antagonists at some point or another toward one of our main protagonists, Miles. (Gwen is also a protagonist, but since my focus is gonna be on Miguel, we're looking at Miles)

Miguel O'Hara is 100% an antagonist. No ifs ands or buts about it. But he is not a villain or evil or whatever else people want to say. He's a morally gray character, with generally good intentions though somewhat questionable methods (and a rather ends justify the means and pragmatic approach which is an interesting choice for a spiderman). His actions are, as he believes them to be, what is required to save billions of lives. That is not the sort of thing a villain or someone who is evil would do.

His methods have a level of brutality to them for sure (and I think it actually makes for an interesting juxtaposition between his antagonism vs the antagonism of Mile's parents. On one hand, you have smothering in an attempt to save the world from the individual, on the other, to protect the individual from the world), but these methods are to his mind what is necessary to save lives. That certainly doesn't excuse them, but it makes for a logical line of motivation. Something else that makes for a generally logical line of thinking in how illogical it is (to me at least) is that I would bet money on this man having never gotten the sort of counseling you need after a massive trauma. (Namely from anecdotal evidence, though don't worry I'm much better now :D). Because is just. Does things to you. Especially if there's guilt involved.

(Uh. I had more but it's getting close to time for me to sleep so now the words are vanishing on the wind TnT rkfjdsjk, sorry)

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

#answered ‧͙⁺˚*･༓☾

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deadbydad · 1 month

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Miguel O'Hara (Across The Spiderverse): More Than Just A Sexy and Hot Character

For Context: I'm not saying that people shouldn't write fanfics about him, that's fine! Keep doing what you want with him, this is just my opinion!

Miguel O'Hara is a character I see get talked a lot about, but some of it just isn't right, the way his character is talked about. And a lot of people, and I mean a lot, sexualize the fuck out of him....and I really do not like that, people who just like him to sexualize him. There is more to his character than being sexy and hot.

It's annoying to just see people write just straight up sexual stuff about him, like that's all his character was for, when it wasn't!

He is an important and interesting character in the film!

This man has so much character and depth to him and we didn't even see that much of him in the movie.

Miguel isn't a villain.

I know this because he isn't just full on aggressive with Miles the first time they meet. He isn't rude to Gwen when they meet for the first time either.

With Gwen, he gives her a watch and an opportunity after what happened with her father. With Miles, he was understanding with him when he told Miles about the Canon Event and what was going to happen to his father.

Miguel isn't a villain, he's the antagonist.

Yes, I know that he hurt Miles badly and also hurt Gwen and was aggressive when they didn't listen to him, but you have to understand that because of what happened to him and what he did, he only thinks that what he thinks is the only way to do things with Canon Events, that he is the only one who's right.

Miguel destroyed his daughter and that universe that she was in all because of a mistake, he wanted a family of his own and didn't want a little girl to be all alone because another version of him died, he saw a chance and took it, and all because of a mistake he made....Miguel ruined a universe and watched his daughter die in his hands.

Of course he's going to think that his way is the only way, it would be hard for him to accept otherwise, let alone listen to a fifteen year old tell him he's wrong. Miguel's trauma, what he had to witness all because of a choice he made, is something that he cannot just easily ignore or get rid of.

He has to live with that, it haunts him every day every time he looks at a picture of his daughter, and Miguel hates himself for what he did.

Miguel just doesn't know how to handle his trauma and what happened to him, he's not good with feelings and he needs therapy big time.

Miguel does not enjoy hurting and hunting down Miles. He doesn't want to do that, you can see that because of the way he talks to him when he explains the canon events for the first time.

Miguel isn't rude, up in his face, or screaming. He's talking in a calm and understanding tone, telling Miles that he's tried to stop the Canon Event multiple times but every time he did it only made things worse.

But he also has so much responsibility weighing on him also, being the leader of the Spider Society and also having multiple universes and time lines to watch over and protect, let a lone his own.

He's tired, and his trauma isn't helping with that either.

Miguel isn't @busive and a villain, he's just a fucked up character who doesn't know how to ask for help or how to talk about his feelings to others. He also grew up differently than the other characters and has his own childhood trauma that also affects his character (I will talk about that another day)

He isn't just a character made to be sexualized, and that should be talked about more.

Miguel O'Hara is a character who is flawed, traumatized, tired, scared, and broken.

He needs therapy, not a relationship, guys.

#miguel o'hara #miguel spiderverse #atsv miguel #spiderman atsv #across the spider verse spoilers #across the spiderverse #spiderman 2099

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eddiebrockx · 11 months

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"Disrupting Canon"

⚠️SPOILERS for Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse and Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse (primarily the latter). Like serious spoilers. Please don't engage if you don't want any!⚠️

Incoming mini-essay! (TL;DR - Miguel O'Hara as a character has much to say about grief and guilt, and how it can harm people.)

After watching Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, I am filled with thoughts!!! So many that they can't all be contained here, and I'll probably have to write an actually essay later--however, I wanted to share some of my feelings and ideas about Miguel and his role in the story, specifically.

Miguel is obviously an antagonist to Miles throughout the story. And, I would actually argue that he is an antagonist to everyone, including himself. He's cynical, he's controlling, he projects his fears onto everyone, and he is terrified of change. The scene where he tells Miles that he is the "original anomaly" is a obvious display of all of that.

Despite this, Miguel still isn't a villain; he isn't evil, and he isn't doing any of this because of pure malice. Instead, he's doing it out of fear. Because Miguel is also an anomaly (at least, I think so). Miguel has more in common with Miles than he does the other Spiders, which is why I think he blames Miles for so much as the "original anomaly."

We know, as the audience, that Miles shouldn't be blamed for anything that has happened. It is not his fault that the Spot brought over a radioactive spider from Earth-42; it's not his fault that he got bit; it's not his fault that the original Spider-Man dies; it's not his fault that the Spot became the Spot. Any logical person can see that Miles didn't have any control over these situations; so why can't Miguel?

He can't because Miguel believes that Miles will cause and experience exactly what he did. We know that a major part of why Miguel is so uptight is because when he disrupted canon, his entire world disintegrated before his eyes. And, its a logical fear; as he said himself, is it worth saving one person over ending the world? But this is where things get complicated: does "disrupting canon" actually cause the world to end?

Peter B. Parker, for example, has a daughter. Jessica Drew is pregnant. None of the other Spiders seem to have children, so wouldn't these be an example of canon being disrupted? Pavitr's world still seems to be around (I'm assuming), after we saw canon disrupted. Gwen's father LITERALLY quit his job, meaning he didn't die, and therefore also disrupted canon. But...nothing happened to Gwen's Earth, even though she was gone for several months.

And, the cherry on top, if Miles is an anomaly, how come nothing has happened to Earth-1610 and Earth-42? Why did nothing happen when the original Spider-Man died?

All of these things, I would like to add, are also very different to what Miguel did. Miguel abandoned his world for a new one, taking the place of a version of him that died. He was in the wrong world. And this reminded me of a certain antagonist in Into the Spider-Verse: King Pin.

Throughout the entire movie, King Pin desperately tried to bring another version of his family into his world. In the end he failed, whereas Miguel succeeded. Of course there are major differences, still. King Pin was entirely selfish and didn't care what consequences came with getting his family back, whereas Miguel thought he wasn't hurting anyone. But Miguel still managed to hurt people, and that's what seems to linger for him. The guilt and grief that he caused the destruction of an entire Earth.

And he can't see past it. Despite the many examples we see throughout the movie that go against what he believes, he can't see beyond his own experience. And if he were to admit that Miles could be correct, his understanding of what happened to himself has to be completely reevaluated. All of that grief that he has suppressed, all of the work he's done to "fix" things; all of that changes.

This is what makes Miguel so compelling to me. I don't think what he said to Miles was warranted, but I can understand where he comes from. The other Spiders can too, because a lot of them have already experienced their canon events. It's what makes this conflict so complicated, so interesting.

Of course, we can't be 100% sure about everything until we see what happens in the third film, but it's all interesting nonetheless.

Ultimately, all I want to say is that I love this series, and I can't wait to see where it takes us next!

#spiderman: across the spiderverse #spiderverse #miguel o'hara #miles morales #animation #across the spiderverse #a mini essay that probably means nothing but i wanted to write anyways #let me know if you have other ideas!!!!#also don't even get me started on the parallels between Miguel and the prowler #or Miles and the spot #soooo many thoughts its overwhelming #jane essay

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iwasbored777 · 9 months

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Unpopular opinion but "I think Miguel is insane" and "I think Miguel is hot" can coexist.

You don't have to shame anyone for liking him cuz he looks good and you don't have to shame anyone for disliking him bc of his personality cuz they made him both hot and insane on purpose. You don't have to choose whether you hate him or love him either. I'm tired of either being called out when I like him or being called out when I judge him. Mostly those who hate him are always like this - you shouldn't be so mad that some people love him. I just hope they don't ruin him with a cheap redemption arc cuz that's how we lost all the best antagonists/villains which I doubt cuz these writers are too good for that.

But if you can worship Patrick Bateman and Arthur Fleck and Tony Montana you can accept that some people worship Miguel O'Hara too.

#y'all acting as if this is the first time this is happening #miguel o'hara #spider man 2099 #spiderman 2099 #spider man across the spider verse #across the spiderverse #spiderverse

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briefmusicbouquet · 11 months

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i watched across the spiderverse and now i am going to scream all of my thoughts about the movie and what could happen in beyond the spiderverse

so there will be very heavy spoilers from here on out

first on the list: miguel o'hara and miles's villains as a whole

i love how miguel continues that theme of "miles morales antagonists all deal with grief and coping with loss in some form" and is also this continuation of kingpin from the first movie

one: they're both characters with a lot of power and influence over a large group of people, and they have a lot of control

two: kingpin was dealing with his grief over his wife and kid and the semi-direct role he played in their death, while miguel is dealing with the loss of his wife and kid in another universe, and the direct role he played in their death and the destruction of that entire universe

they're similar characters at different points in time

bc the spider-people know that they can't let kingpin succeed because of how it'd mess up the multiverse/fuck with the timelines, but they're not entirely sure what would happen except that it'd be Bad

and then second movie, miguel shows what would've happened if kingpin had succeeded

back to "other antagonists dealing with loss of some form,"

the spot, and the way he fixates on becoming miles's nemesis and being significant to him, to cope with the loss of his life from Before and how he could view his life from before as meaningless now because he will never be able to go back

prowler!morales, and the way we can kinda guess that he might've become the prowler as a response to his dad's death, and i have more thoughts on what role he might play in the 3rd movie for later

even peter b parker, while he's not an outright antagonist, the mindset he has in the begining of the first movie, "spiderman is pain and suffering and isolating" is a response to him losing everything he cared about in his universe

idk, i think it's very interesting how a lot of his antagonists seem to deal with how grief can change a person and what they're willing to do to try and cope with it

and that's such a contrast to miles, who has experienced grief but is currently at a crossroads where he could lose everything the same way these antagonists did

#spiderman: across the spiderverse #atsv miguel #miguel o'hara #atsv spoilers #into the spider verse #across the spiderverse #character analysis #maybe?#miles morales #kingpin

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internal-soundtrack · 11 months

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My own personal Miguel O'Hara character analysis

I'm trying to get better at identifying and building characters though analyzing complex characters and audience reactions, this is all my personal opinion on easily one of the most complex characters presented in the movie. You don't have to agree with me or like him. I'm not defending Miguel, I'm trying to understand him before I decide if I like him or not.

Obviously an insane amount of Across the Spiderverse Spoilers

Role in Miles' story: Antagonist, not villain

Explanation: An antagonist can be any character that opposes another's goal, this can be any type of character hero, anti-hero, villain or otherwise.

Miles's goal is very simply put to save his family and stop Spot. By the end of the film his main goal is to save his father's life.

This is the goal that Miguel directly opposes as his main goal is to maintain canon and keep the multiverse together. Which from what he knows cannot be achieved if Miles saves his father.

Miguel is a very good distraction from the villain: Spot, who is the one that will ultimately try to kill Miles' father Jeff, making him the main threat to Miles' goal. Which is exactly the kind of thing that makes Spot powerful and leads to Miguel's complex characterization. Spot is powerful because no one not even the audience or Miles takes him seriously, Miguel is the exact opposite he's incredibly strong and powerful as well as intimidating and it's a safe wager that he is the one that Miles sees as the biggest threat like I've seen is a general consensus and reaction from the audience.

Miguel may be an antagonist but he is the distraction from the villain, rather than being one.

Type of character: Anti-hero

Explanation: An anti-hero is someone with an ultimately good goal in mind that achieves it in morally bad or extreme ways. Anti-heroes also generally serve as an antagonist to the hero at some point or another, they can either stay that way or eventually become an ally.

Miguel ultimately just wants to protect the multiverse, his means of achieving this is to maintain canon by any means necessary. Whether that means being, for lack of a better term, a total dick or being immensely aggressive and extreme. It's what he must do to achieve his goal and he is willing to go all the way despite the costs.

Very typically heroes try to save every life possible, anti-heroes are the ones that are okay with breaking a few eggs to make the omelet.

Miguel is willing to sacrifice Miles' father and any other person that must die in canon to save the multiverse. He expects that Miles will make that sacrifice as well, even without him fully explaining everything to Miles himself. When Miles is very obviously not willing to sacrifice his father then Miguel chases him down, which does come across as very extreme and albeit childish when you consider Miles' age. That's what anti-heroes are: extreme. Miguel doesn't care how old Miles is he is going to take those extreme measures to protect the multiverse, in his eyes Miles has been told all he should need to know and is willingly going to then put billions of lives in jeopardy to save his father. Miles is Spider-Man, to Miguel that's all that really matters rather than considering his age and how young Miles is. Which is extreme and less than moral and that's exactly what anti-heroes are.

Audience Perception:

It's very easy to not like Miguel, because from Into the Spiderverse we all grew to love Miles Morales, we all saw how guilty he felt when his Peter Parker died and how distraught he was over Uncle Aaron. For Miguel to disregard all of this and tell Miles he's a mistake and further cement that guilt into him, obviously makes him dislike-able to downright hate-able. Hate-able characters, however are not automatically villains. It's no excuse, but if you think about Miguel's story that we know, then from that he wholeheartedly believes that that's the truth.

Explanation:

Of what Miguel knows there can only be one Spider-Man, only one person is supposed to be bitten in each universe. Miles was the second person to be bitten in his universe and when he was bitten, it was by a spider from a different dimension, thus stopping another universe from gaining their Spider person. All of this is outside of Miles' control, but it ultimately puts him in a sore spot with Miguel before they even meet and their later disagreements only adds to Miguel being far from a like-able character, most especially considering Miles' age and focusing on that which seems to be a very common reception.

Understanding Miguel's Perspective:

Ultimately Miguel is a character built by his trauma and experiences, like many heroes are, but Miguel's not only built by his trauma he's consumed by his guilt. He's one of those characters you really have to think about considering not only his actions towards the hero (Miles), but also his backstory to even gain a surface level of understanding of him and his motives. Miguel's backstory is beyond just tragic, he very obviously has extreme PTSD and survivor's guilt which guides his every move. I've seen a lot of people say he's projecting onto Miles and he is. Miguel has been where Miles is and he sees Miles doing what he did (choosing to go against canon and mess with the flow of the multiverse) and he knows that Miles is gonna get burned because the universe is fucking cruel. He tries to stop him not out of compassion but from his survivor's guilt, which he's projecting onto Miles. He knows that the choice he made to live in that dimension and replace the deceased version of himself was selfish and that it got most likely billions of people including the ones he loved killed, that a fucking lot of trauma and guilt for anyone regardless of how old they are, and it's killing Miguel. In his mind the only thing that he should do, if he's still to live after everything he's done (he has survivor's guilt and most likely considered or tried to kill himself) is to protect the multiverse and stop his history from repeating in any manner as a means to make up for what he's done, which he never feels like he can do thus adding to his trauma and compulsions to project his guilt and act through his trauma.

He told Miles what he did and what happened and Miles is still choosing to try to save his father and go against canon, which is something Miguel considers beyond incredibly selfish. He doesn't care that Miles is a child, because despite how little he likes it Miles is Spider-Man and he's supposed to act like it. Miles came in saying that he was capable and should be entrusted with the multiverse and despite it being a cruel start from Miguel, when Miles was first trusted to protect the multiverse and uphold canon he chose his father, which from what Miguel knows to be true and has seen firsthand will destroy Miles' universe, that's a choice that Miguel sees as unforgivable and something he must stop.

He sees letting Jeff die, like a police captain should in the Spider-Man canon as something he must do to protect the greatest number of people, because if he's right (which he believes he is) Miles saving his father will do nothing. Miles' dad will die anyway along with the rest of that dimension, which will amount to close to eight billion people, all because Miles tried to save one person that would end up dying anyway. Ultimately his goal is good, he wants to help people and save lives. His means such as sacrificing Jeff, trying to trap Miles, in general enforcing canon are less than good. That's why he's not the hero of the story, Miles is. He even knows and considers himself an anti-hero, he's well aware he does bad things and he hates it, and himself for that matter, but he has to do it to save lives and protect the entire multiverse.

Summary:

Miguel is an anti-hero that in Across the Spiderverse serves as an antagonist to Miles Morales. All of his actions are derived from his own personal experience and his immense guilt from a mistake he made that destroyed a universe. He's not there for the audience to like, he's an antagonist to a character that everyone already loved in Into the Spiderverse, he was never supposed to be liked. Instead he adds to the dynamic of the Spot, he's a distraction that pulls you away from Spot. He throws the worst things he could at Miles and then attacks him, he's meant to seem like the villain the audience was supposed to hate him. That's what makes the Spot dangerous, he seems weak and less of a villain than someone intimidating like Miguel, so the audience forgets about and writes off Spot. That's his whole character and origin story Spot is forgettable and seems weak, that's how he thrives. Spot is the villain because he's the one that will kill Jeff to hurt Miles. Miguel is an antagonist only, rather than the villain, because while he wants Miles to fail it's not out of malicious intent against Miles. It's what he knows and believes to be what will save lives.

Miguel is a very genuinely tragic character. He's incredibly traumatized and self-loathing. However, he ultimately acts with good intentions, but with bad means. He's the epitome of an anti-hero. We as an audience are not supposed to like him, I myself walked out of that theater HATING Miguel for what he said and did to Miles. To understand him you have to think a lot about where he's coming from, he's extraordinarily complex which adds worlds of possibility for growth in the next movie.

#spiderverse #across the spiderverse #miguel o'hara #spiderman #spiderman atsv #spiderman 2099 #miguel o'hara character analysis #character analysis #spiderman: atsv #atsv #atsv spoilers #spiderman: across the spiderverse #spider man: across the spider verse #across the spiderverse spoilers

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vampirevatican · 10 months

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Miguel isn't a villain. At most he's an antagonist, at the least he's a foil.

Yes he did go feral, batshit, insane even in that chase down with miles. Mfer was on all fours, screaming this kid's name, chasing him down the second he took off. Is that villainy? wicked, sure. criminal? no. That is a man hellbent on an ideal. A spiderman who had lost everything, can not face the fact that it was by his own hand, so he tries to placate it by saying that messing with canon fucks up the whole. A spiderman who fucked up, big time, and was AT FIRST trying to warn a younger spiderman to not make the same mistakes. To see his error and try to let it go.

That chase? Is the thread snapping. That choke slam, The panic in trying to get spiderbyte to stop the machine, Him clawing at the barrier? That is pent up stages of grief conforming into a ball of rage fuled by the determination to never have another world destroyed again, especially any world that could have his daughter.

No. I don't like Miguel's actions. Before the chase? I found him to be laughable, enjoyable in the sense that there is a spiderman that's basically fucking batman. His moments with Lyla, not having spidersense, his response to Hobie just in his presence? Are why I love his character, infact I appreciate that he tries to explain to Miles instead of just trapping him and putting him away with the other anomalies.

I need y'all to recognize he's definitely not the "good guy" but he's not the "bad guy" either, in the same way that gwen and peter are neither.

Miguel O'Hara, is the foil to Miles Morales.

#.⁠｡⁠*⁠chitchat💭━♡#miguel o'hara atsv #atsv #across the spiderverse #lemme make this clear.. i. do. not. FUCK. with this man's actions.#infact i can't fall for him because of his actions and his personality periodt.#but ong. he's not out here for blood. that's not his primary objective. he's not trying to ruin everything for miles like the spot is.

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crystal-crax · 10 months

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-Miguel O'Hara Rant

The weight of the world on his shoulders

OH IT'S TIME

Time to share my thoughts that absolutely nobody asked for

So, Miguel Ohara. What's his deal right? Man singlehandendly caused the whole internet to break and thirst for this unhinged man.

But his character is so much more, complex. GOD it's so hard to even describe it, and that's cool but i see some people already theorizing about "his true intentions".

NOT THAT THE THEORIES AREN'T COOL. But people suddenly expecting for a secret twist that ranks him as the "absolute villain" over the spot is well, somewhat weird to me.

Because the thing is, Miguel is no villain, he's more antagonistic if anything (and YES there's a difference and yes I'll write about it later lmao).

We've grown accustomed to twist villains, so we take any complex character and try to pull a card from under the table (like people expecting Lyla to secretly be the one controlling Miguel's actions and is tricking him or something idk - THE CONCEPT IS AMAZING TO READ ABOUT THOUGH, YOU GO GUYS, YOU ARE AMAZING AND I LOVE Y'ALL).

But the conversartion about Miguel's character starts to drift away a little once the theme starts to be more like: "Omg what if Miguel is brain-washing the other spiders into believing he's a good guy by lying about his story so everyone empathizes with him and they ultimately destroy the spiderverse altogether"

And yes THE DARK! MIGUEL CONCEPT IS AMAZING, I LOVE SEEING THAT MAN UNHINGED AND K WORD EVERYONE AND, YOU GUYS WRITE IT SO GOOD????? I LOVE YOU ALL???????

BUT, i don't think think Miguel is lying, at least not intentionally. If anything, he's lying to himself quite hard.

----------------------------------

There's just something... wrong about his canon theory and "the death of the universe" mumbo jumbo.

1st hint: He blankly compares his own actions; literally TAKING THE IDENTITY OF A DEAD MAN TO RAISE HIS OTHER UNIVERSE'S DAUGHTER MAN WTF, QUITE LITERALLY DISRUPTING THE BALANCE OF THE WORLD BC HELLO YOU'RE SUPOSSED TO BE DEAD HERE-, to the spot attacking Pav's universe.

So, something is definately wrong, right? The movie shows us so. We're basically Miles inside the story, we know that the destruction of Mumbattan started before Miles even disrupted the "canon event", we saw the spot leave one of his portal spot thingies behind to destroy Pav's universe from within. And the way it's happening, looks nothing like Miguel's demonstration of a universe dying.

But Miguel wasn't there with us, he just knows someone disrupted a canon event, and the universe is about to collapse.

Sure, one could say "maybe, it's basically happening because the captain didn't die, maybe it was the spot but still the universe it's disappearing because of it anyway so Miguel is essentially right and -"

AND then it clicks, that's how Miguel is exactly thinking.

It doesn't matter if it's not like how it happened to Gabriella's universe, the universe it's collapsing so it's essentially the same thing, right? And that's exactly how a man with severe "universe collapsing" PTSD would think.

Yes, Miguel is deeply traumatized by the consequences of his actions.

For those that are familiar with his base story. This man has gone through it. But he saw himself; in another life, happy, with a family, he wasn't suffering, he wanted that too, so he took comfort on it, because if a version of you can be happy, well you can at least try, right?

But oh no, the fantasy died, he died. Was he not meant to be hapy? Was every version of himself meant to lose everything and become a tragic tale? Was it really all that's to his story?

So, he holds onto the last piece of hope he had and decides to freaking replace his dead self and raise his alternate reality's daughter.

No shit he caused the universe to collapse, right? He stayed too long (and Miguel might be a Genius and all but not even he can just, stop the order of the universe with a fancy watch), he kept the memory of a dead man quite literally alive. And that cost him EVERYTHING.

And what does he do next? Man just latches onto another safe net: "i changed the canon, so the universe died" <- MAN IS TRYING TO MAKE IT A SPIDERMAN THING.

And yes i might be a little to harsh here but well, he's essentially escaping the full pain of the consequences of his actions

"I may have interefered with a natural force but it was essentially the canon being broken so that must've been it"

WHAT CANON DID YOU EXACTLY BREAK MAN? Was Gabriella meant to grow up and become spider-woman? Was this her uncle ben/being an orphan moment? Was Miguel spiderman there too? Was he meant to die so a new spiderman could take the mantle? Was he not spiderman there? Was there another spiderman/woman in that universe? What did Miguel do for him to assume that he broke "the spiderman canon"?

Well, we don't know.

And he's adamant about not even trying to prove or explain his theory further as well. And he's not going to allow anybody to even try to prove him right or wrong.

2nd hint: Why are the universal effects not the same? If Pav's universe is dying bc of the canon, why was the destruction of it faster than Gabriella's universe? Why didn't Gwen's universe didn't die as soon her father resigned from being a captain? Heck, why didn't Gwen's universe die when she left? She left her universe unprotected, there was no spider-woman there.

But Miguel stands his ground, he's right and everyone else is wrong. Because he needs to be right.

Because if he's not, then he killed an entire universe because of his selfish desires of happiness...something that he doesn't even believe himself to deserve to want.

And that's what makes his story so...deeply tragic and enticing. He's a hurt man that pushes any helping hand away, because his mind and heart are not ready to process the whole weight of what he's feeling.

He has taken control over everyone's story because he desperately needs everything in control. He can't allow another mistake that might lead another universe full of innocent people to disappear.

Conclusion: He sees himself in Miles and he absolutely hates it.

He also knows what it is to want your story to be different, to be willing to do anything to be happy and protect something/someone you care about.

And wouldn't it hurt more if Miles gets his happy ending? If Miles is right and nothing happens after he saves his dad, then the canon is basically a useless theory that he made up to find comfort, and he doomed his daughter's reality because he needed to be happy.

He needs to be right, because if he's not, what else does he have?

"We're supposed to be the good guys"

"We are"

#earth 1610 miles #Miguel O'hara #atsv #across the spiderverse #into the spider verse #thanks for coming to my rant #thanks for coming to my ted talk #THIS IS SO LONG AND IT BASICALLY DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE AND IT DOESN'T MATTER BUT I WANTED TO SHARE IT ALRIGHT?#pavitr my beloved #spider gwen

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honeyed-latte · 1 month

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Miguel O'Hara isn't a villain, you goddamn egg

Hes an Antagonist

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kuramirocket · 8 months

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Okay, so I finally watched Across The Spiderverse and I have at least 2 hot takes that will get me hated and cancelled, probably lol.

The first one is that I really disliked the animation for this movie. Idk, about everyone else, but I felt the animation was too fast paced, colorful, weird and confusing. It was pretty eye straining which I did not like at all. That and coupled with the characters talking really rapidly, it didn't mix well with the animation at all, if you ask me. Anyone else feel the eyestrain was real for this film?

Anyways, for this film I was most excited about Miguel O'Hara because half Mexican! I was hoping for, but from the trailers, honestly not holding my breath for some good representation. Because of this I'm weary of the film and where the sequel will head.

Like it's really great to see more Mexican characters, but I feel that this itself is the problem. It seems like Miguel is written in a way to be a morally grey character and in a way that he will be seen as a villain by the majority of the viewers. Now, I haven't really looked at the fandom because of spoilers, but from the little I I've seen, it's either you hate him because of his behavior and views or you you love him because he's hot. At least, these seem to be the two extremes. Now, as an indigenous Mexican myself, I hate how Mexican characters are portrayed stereotypically in films and/or are only shoved into grey areas/antagonistic roles. It's very tiring to see. Atsv has great Afro Latino representation, sure, but with Miguel it feels really iffy to me. Idk. Miguel just seems to have this negative air to him and not just because of the loss and pain he's lived through and experiences that has led him to behave the way he does and see the world as he sees it. I just don't want more Mexican characters who are 'mean,' or seen as villains, or just portrayed as being wrong, you know.

This is why I'm very weary of the sequel and not holding my breath either like I said.

Looking at how Gwen's father renounced from the police force, I imagine this means it's likely he won't die because he's no longer Captain. So, it seems that this is foreshadowing and indication that in the next movie, Miles will prove Miguel wrong that things aren't set in stone - and his dad will not die and he will save him. I feel like this is pretty tropey and I honestly hope this isn't the case. Don't get me wrong. I do love the messages and themes of saying fck you to fate and making your own destiny and changing things for the better and forging your own destiny, BUT for this franchise; I actually want to see the morally grey character who is seen as a villain and wrong by the viewers and who is cold because of his experiences to actually be right about things no matter how fcked up and tragic it is. Like give me THIS plot twist for once. Let Miguel be right. Lol. Though, I doubt this will happen and will be too dark.

Also, don't get me wrong (again) there's nothing wrong with morally grey characters and this does bring a lot of great complexity to them (which a lot of people don't understand or still dislike and hate them either way which isn't bad per say, people are entitled to their opinions) but again, shoving Mexican characters into morally grey areas [sacrificing one life for the many - and really all the cruel things Miguel said to Miles despite his anger stemming from his experiences and wanting to save the multiverse from collapsing and what not], shoving Mexican characters into villain/antagonistic roles (looking at Black Panther's Namor), is again, tiring to see so many times happens (e.g. especially with the stereotypical drug dealer/criminal roles that just happen again and again). Idk if this makes sense? I really hope it does because this topic of the portrayal of Mexican characters is really important to me.

And honestly me and other Mexicans shouldn't have to settle for any fictional Mexican characters we can get.

I'm not saying the writers are bad people or with malicious intent or anything, but again Miguel's characterization just comes across as iffy to me especially since he serves as representation to me, to Mexicans.

Idk. Thoughts?

#spiderman across the spiderverse #representation #miguel o'hara #spiderman 2099 #miles morales #analysis #black panther wakanda forever #namor #kukulkan #gwen stacy

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