#of course wwx has a good heart but remember when that kid shot an arrow at him and he threw it right back through his heart? | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

heavymetalchemist · 3 years

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I think it’s easy to forget that Wei Wuxian is strongly villain-coded. We see the story from his perspective, we know his reasons and justifications, if you’re watching CQL and paying attention you can figure out the core transfer before the reveal. We know that Wen Qing and Wen Ning are good guys. We know that the Burial Mounds gang is a bunch of tired uncle/aunts trying to grow some stupid radishes, a four year old, and the Disaster Bi Gang (none of whom have swords, even!) We know that Wei Wuxian has his heart in the right place, that he feels an incredibly strong debt to the Wen Siblings and by extension their remaining family, that he has no golden core and has no choice but to forsake the sword and cultivate the demonic path, that he defects from the Jiang sect in a fake fight with his brother so that the Jiang sect won’t suffer the consequences of his actions, even though they have Secret Soup later.

But if you’re not us, the audience? If you’re, for example, Sect Leader Yao?

Hey did you all hear about how Wei Wuxian got kicked out of the Cloud Recesses for violently lashing out at the Jin sect heir?

Hey did you all see how he doesn’t carry his sword any more and claims it’s because he’s so badass that he doesn’t need it? And he has that Stygian tiger seal, so maybe it’s not bullshit? Can you even fight against that with a sword?

What kind of power does this guy even have? He’s a teenager! He drinks all the time and he’s moody and surly and holy shit did you hear what he did at that Wen outpost? He tortured all of them to death! Ugly stuff, man. Gruesome way to go. Maybe even worse than what Wen Ruohan did, at least a hot poker doesn’t make you claw your own eyes out.

Oh shit, he just stormed into this banquet and just SAID “if I want to kill someone who can stop me” and he still has that tiger seal I think we should be worried???

He just busted a bunch of Wen cultivators out of prison! And then he ran off to the Burial Mounds??? And his sect leader didn’t even know anything about it? Is he going rogue? Is he starting an uprising? This demonic cultivation stuff really seems to be corrupting him!

Oh man he got kicked out of the Jiang sect? You mean even the man he grew up with, who he was raised with practically as a brother, can’t control him any more? Did you hear about his fierce corpse? They call him the Ghost General! He’s unstoppable! What are we going to do if he comes for us?

He could be building a whole army in there, Sect Leader Jin said so! Who knows what kind of sick, twisted stuff he’s getting up to! Don’t forget all that horrible shit in the Sunshot Campaign, remember when he was raising the Wens’ own dead to turn against them? He could do that to us! He’s working with the Wens now, even! He’s gone totally crazy!

We can’t let some outlaw have all this power. It’s putting the safety of all of us at risk. What if it’s just another Wen Ruohan waiting to happen? (especially applicable if you’re thinking he’s using Yin iron as in CQL!) If we let him consolidate his power too much, then he’ll be unstoppable!

HOLY SHIT he murdered the Jin sect heir and his cousin with his fierce corpse! That’s the man his former shijie married! The one he punched in the Cloud Recesses, remember when the Lans kicked him out because he was so unruly and disrespectful? Yeah! It was probably revenge! Have we done anything to him? Oh gods what if we’re next???

A major point of MDZS/CQL is how important reputation is, and how that affects everything. Wei Wuxian’s reputation is straight-up villainous. We, the audience, know that he’s trying his best, that he’s a traumatized teenager with a shitload of emotional baggage trying to do the right thing and repay a colossal debt, that he’s made choices that he now has to try and live with, etc. But to the rest of the world this guy has fucking lost it, he’s gone off the deep end and he has an incredibly powerful weapon and a mode of cultivation that seems to corrupt you and turn you into a monster, and frankly, they’re not wrong! It does affect his temperament and he does end up killing a lot of people and he is out of control!

MDZS/CQL is interesting precisely because we’re getting an entire Villain Apology Story. A long time ago I read a post by someone on here saying they find Jiang Cheng challenging to write about because he’s the protagonist of a different story, and he really is. He’s the guy whose former shixiong turns into a villain in pursuit of power, the Obi-Wan to WWX’s Anakin, the one who sees how incredible power corrupts and is obligated to fight against it. Having to fight against a former ally who was seduced by “the dark side” (in this case, demonic cultivation) is a story that gets told over and over, but always condemning the one who went to the dark side. He’s the blackened protagonist, the aren’t you tired of being nice, don’t you want to go ape shit power fantasy, where we as the audience can justify his actions because we know he did it to save his brother, his sister, the Wen remnants he owes a debt to. He isolates himself from the people who love him to protect them, he refuses Lan Wangji’s help because he’s convinced he just wants to lock him up and stop him from using demonic cultivation because he’s a righteous upstanding Lan (totally unaware of LWJ’s intense crush, obviously). He jokes about it but he knows he’s being painted as the villain, and he’s in denial about how much that will affect him, because after all… he’s the Yiling Laozu, and he knows his power. But so does everyone else, and they’re rightfully terrified!

And yet? When he comes back, LWJ still wants him, still cares for him, will move heaven and earth to protect him. JC cares about him so much he’s having a Constant Crisis about it. And WWX has not forgotten his shijie or shidi, immediately cares about Jin Ling, and still is the man who really just wanted to be free and grow some goddamn radishes. He accepts that he paid for what he’s done with his death, and just wants to start over.

It just drives me nuts when people pretend like WWX was an angel who did nothing wrong because the whole POINT is that he was a villain-coded gay (well, bi) and the man you had to really watch out for was the polite, thoughtful, soft-spoken one that worked his way up from a tragic backstory. It’s a whole subversion and it’s awesome!

#mdzs meta #wei wuxian #yiling laozu #of course wwx has a good heart but remember when that kid shot an arrow at him and he threw it right back through his heart?#remember when JC and LWJ walked into that Wen outpost and were like oh fuck oh man what the fuck?#remember when he almost busted out chenqing to murder JZX over a SOUP MISUNDERSTANDING?#this is not a wwx hate post this is a pls understand complex characters and nuance post #that audience knowledge is NOT character knowledge #is this a lowkey NMJ defense post? yes.

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devianta · 4 years

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MDZS/Persona 5 xover that literally no one asked for

I just feel like there’s so much potential for this. Think about it, both of these works have themes surrounding the damage gossip can cause, getting punished for doing the right thing (no good deed goes unpunished), what constitutes justice, and the consequences of shitty parenting, amongst other things.

Mostly I just want to run wwx’s palace. He has a palace, there’s no doubt about that, and I want to run it. I’d kill 500 men for the opportunity. Also, pretty sure his treasure would be his lost golden core. Meaning, that if you successfully steal that shit you get to give to it him and then he’d have a new one without 1) him having to die and be brought back in a new body or 2) having to fuck anyone else up. (Phantom Thievery ftw!) You’d just have to successfully complete the palace. That’s all.

Can you imagine wwx as a boss? Like, can you imagine that boss fight? He’d have at least 12 health bars. I mean, this is the guy who got shot by an arrow, pulled it out, and threw it back, instantly killing the bitch who shot him. This is the fucker who got disemboweled by his brother, stuffed his intestines back in, and then went and bought potatoes. This guy got a super experimental operation done on him, got stabbed with his own sword by wen chao (at least in the donghua, can’t remember if this happened in the other adaptations), and was then thrown into burial mounds. Like after all that, he was literally thrown off a cliff and he was still able to move around. Wwx is not unlike a termite: there’s really not much that can kill him. During the Sunshot Campaign he managed whole battlefields on his own. He played the flute days and nights on end without rest.

His boss fight would be near impossible but I would be so willing to try. BTW, I’m imagining this taking place after he’s moved into Burial Mounds with the Wen Remnants but before jzx gets dead. You know, before everything gets irreversibly fucked. So the Stygian Tiger Seal will definitely feature in the boss fight. Most likely it’ll be something you need to steal it during the fight. I’m imagining that he uses to summon endless waves of corpses that prevent you from getting any hits in so you have to distract him in order to steal the seal off him and finally be able to deal actual damage to him. That’ll be stage one of the fight. Stage two will be fighting wwx and shadow wen ning. You have to defeat wen ning before you move on to stage three. Wen ning exclusively uses physical attacks. Wwx never uses physical attacks. He mostly commands wen ning but throws out curse and almighty attacks every one or two turns. Stage three is just wwx and he starts hitting you with a crap ton of curse damage with some almighty mixed in to spice things up. He repels most physical attacks and all curse moves. He’s weak to bless skills but has a 50% dodge rate for them. Beating wwx earns you no money (b/c he’s poor af) but he drops 2x Shijie’s soup (restores full sp to all party members), 5x wen qing’s needles (cures any status condition), 5x curse talismans (does 50 dmg), and one (1) golden core.

What does wwx’s palace look like? Where is it? I want to say Lotus Pier and the distortion (what he thinks of it as) is a graveyard/mausoleum/something along those lines. But an argument could be made for burial mounds. I’m not sure what the distortion would be though in that case. I feel like wwx sees burial mounds pretty clearly. No, I think wwx’s distortion revolves around Lotus Pier and his family there. Mini bosses? Jiang Cheng definitely. Maybe Madame Yu? Shijie would show up (his palace wouldn’t be complete without her) but she wouldn’t be a shadow you’d fight. She’d offer guidance or healing items. Lwj’s shadow would definitely be there but I’m not sure what his role would be. At that point in the story, wwx’s unknowingly in love with lwj and sees him as a nice guy who asks wwx questions he can’t answer. He believes that he and lwj will inevitably end up on opposite sides of the battle field but ultimately wwx does not want to fight him. He feels that a death at lwj’s hands would be a good death. So he might be a shadow you have to impress or prove yourself to before receiving help. I feel like wwx’s palace would be a bit like Futaba’s in that he wouldn’t have full control over it because he no longer has complete control over himself or his demonic cultivation. Which is why I think there would be shadows in wwx’s palace that act counter to his purpose of pushing others away (not unlike in Futaba’s palace). If anything, I feel like his palace would be like a weird mix of Futaba’s and Nijima’s palaces. Because wwx has that distinct self-blaming loneliness that so permeated Futaba’s pyramid but he also has that single-minded determination and overbearing hubris that featured so strongly is Nijima’s casino. I don’t know. Nijima, in her boss battle, repeatedly yelled “I must win! I must win at any cost!” and I can kinda hear wwx saying something similar but it would be more along the lines of “I must protect them! I must protect them no matter what!” “Them” of course being his family and the Wen Remnants.

Other palaces to conquer in the MDZS universe? (It might be easier to list the people who wouldn’t have palaces.)

Jiang Cheng definitely has a palace. A very purple palace. Lotus Pier, the Revenge. But what does he see his home as? An empty house? Jyl did say in the Untamed that three of them must remain together forever. And what happened? Wwx ran off with the last of the Wens and Jyl got married and left. If anything, jc is lonely. All he wants is his family back. So his palace would either reflect the state of his existence: alone in an empty home with no one to call his own, or it would reflect his deepest desires: his whole family returned to him. What sort of palace ruler would he be? He has that inferiority complex and brother and mother and father issues. (So. Many. ISSUES.) I can see his wwx shadow being completely obedient, because that’s sort of what he wants. He wants his brother home again and fulfilling his promise, to be the other half of the twin heroes of Yunmeng. It might be fun to fight shadow!jc and shadow!wwx at the same time. The Phantom Thieves vs the Twin Heroes of Yunmeng, loser gets sent to the Shadow Realm! (Just kidding. Unless...?) The other possibility is that wwx is completely absent from the palace but his absence is blatantly obvious to anyone that gazes upon the palace, like walking into a bedroom with no bed. There should be a bed there. Everyone knows a bed belongs here but there is no bed. Jc’s palace should have a wwx but wwx is not here. But he should be.

What would jc’s treasure be? His original golden core? Probably not. As far as he’s concerned (at this juncture) the golden core in his body is his original, restored by baoshan sanren. So it’s not that. The puppies that he lost as a boy, that he was forced to trade for an errant brother? A possibility. That was seemingly the start of jc’s problems. First he lost his beloved dogs, then he lost the love of his parents. Jfm focused on wwx to the detriment of jc and madame yu wouldn’t shut the fuck up about how jc couldn’t compare to wwx. If wwx hadn’t come to lotus pier, jc’s parents might’ve been satisfied with him. But I sincerely doubt that. There were clearly problems between J-fucking-M and Mad-Yu’s (can you tell that I think nothing of these two assholes god what I wouldn’t give to kick their asses in the metaverse I’d tear their fucking hearts out to quote ryugi) marriage prior to wwx’s arrival. Wwx’s presence there only brought those problems to the surface. Whether jc is capable of recognizing that truth is another matter. (Sorry, jc but your parents are shit and their marriage was doomed to failure before they even made their bows.)

Or would wwx himself be the treasure? Jc’s parents are dead; they can’t be returned to life and therefore are unattainable. Jyl didn’t necessarily abandon jc and I doubt he sees her leaving as a betrayal. Jyl’s marriage was more or less inevitable. She’s able to easily visit. There’s no real conflict there. Wwx, on the hand, defected from Jiang sect. Jc has to pretend to loathe him, to not want him back when the opposite is in fact the case. Most of jc’s problems, wishes, and desires center around this one person. It wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that wwx is the locus of jc’s world, the axis upon which all turns: the triumphs and failures, tragedies and victories. When wwx is missing, jc looks for him. When wwx drops his sword, jc picks it up and returns it to him. Whatever happens to one brother affects the other. Even if/when wwx isn’t obviously present in jc’s life, he’s still there, even if you don’t see one brother next to the other. Even though jc doesn’t know it at that point in the story, wwx is the core of jc’s body and, therefore, it would make thematic sense for him to the be the core of jc’s palace.

Other palaces? Well, Jin Guangshan and Jin Guangyao obviously. Su She is debatable. I feel like he’d be a Mementos run. Besides, he’s not important enough to warrant a palace. Likewise, Jin Zixun would be a Mementos case. Wen Ruohan would have a palace but we don’t get to really know him as a character so I can’t say what his palace would like look except that it would encompass the whole of Ancient China. Wen Chao would likely have a palace even though he doesn’t deserve the attention ripping his palace apart would require. Most likely it would be a cross between Kamoshida’s and Kanoshiro’s. Jgs’ palace would probably look like Kamoshida’s and Jgy’s would probably be like Shido’s.

Am I missing anyone? What do you think the characters’ palaces would look like? Whose palace would you most like to run? Let me know!

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