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esther-dot · 10 months

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Arya fit into a glove the description of the perfect monarch that Varys used to describe Young Griff:

“He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry.”

There was a reason Arya loved listening to her father talk with his subjects and takes note of lessons he gave to Robb as his heir. Arya is noted to be better at math than her sister. In Braavos, she starts learning many different languages under the tutelage of the Faceless Men, including Braavosi, Pentoshi, Lysene, High Valyrian, and the trade talk of sailors. Currently, her Braavosi is at a passable level, though she could still use some practice.

“He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid.”

This has been Arya ENTIRE storyline. Arya’s resourcefulness and quick thinking enable her to survive alone in the slums of King’s Landing for a time, she slept in the streets and survived by catching pigeons, and escaped the city by joining the Night’s Watch prisoners. She traveled Westeros by foot, as a ragged child whose most valuable possession is a sword and is forced to steal to survive, having to hunt her own meals, cook her own meals, was captured and forced into slavery at Harrenhal, she looked for shelter among the common people in the scene where her and the Hound receive help from the old farmer and his daughter. She saw with her own eyes the destruction and misery the War of the Five Kings brought to the people of Westeros and she understand how devastading war can be for the weak and poor. Arya forms close bonds with the smallfolk and make friends from all types of backgrounds, regardless of social status, which is noteworthy to point out in such a classist feudalist society as Westeros is.

So, by matching Varys’s description perfectly with Arya’s storyline, GRRM was clearly giving us a hint about Arya’s final destiny. After all, Arya is technically the lady of Winterfell already because the Boltons are using her name to hold the North and there are Northern lords rising up to fight for her.

I'm assuming this is in response to this ask.

I admire everyone who is willing to put themselves out there and write meta. I don't write my own, so I don't want to minimize the effort it takes. However, since the claim is that this is evidence of the author’s intention, I have to disagree. Years ago, when it came out that he wants to write follow-up adventures for Arya elsewhere, not in the North, he ended the Arya as QitN endgame question for me. The QitN isn't gonna be running around Braavos solving murder mysteries. (I believe this is something he mentioned himself once, I think I first heard it in a clip of a Q&A, but I can't find that rn).

Generally I'm happy to entertain a variety of spec, and I'll talk a little about the passage you point to as evidence of QitN Arya below, but I have to say, this isn't a topic I'm gonna be moved on. I believe what you've found is what most of us find as we read/reread the series. Similarities between characters because they're often used to approach similar ideas from different angles, but that doesn't mean the purpose of a passage is foreshadowing for that other character.

"No." The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them." (ADWD, Epilogue)

I've said before, this does not truly speak to any of the Stark kids. Aspects of it apply perhaps, but none of them fulfill this ideal in which we're being told that Aegon was an excellent student who mastered all the classical/religious education as well as having an understanding of an unprivileged life.

Arya does learn languages, I'm not dismissing that, or the fact that she loved sitting with her father and listening to the stories people shared with him, but we are specifically told that she ran away from her Septa to get out of lessons. Not just sewing, history lessons too. We are told that in contrast to herself, Sansa knows sigils and poetry. And even though she also hides her true hair color and goes into hiding, I'm not gonna say this passage is about Sansa because a) there's nothing the author does to insert her into this convo, b) half of it doesn't apply.

So, you can understand why I squint at your conclusion and ultimately can't accept it as the author's intent. I could put my thumb over the page and argue it's about Arya, Bran, or Dany, who have all suffered hardships, but if I look at the entire quote, it doesn't perfectly apply to any of them. Arya and Dany lack the successful, extensive formal education, Bran lacks the experience with the smallfolk. I think this passage about Aegon is about...Aegon.

I appreciate Arya's intelligence, I enjoy her, it's admirable how much she connects with the smallfolk in a way that sets her apart from most of the highborn, and she does have that beautiful theme of justice/mercy running through her story, but all the same, it's a notable aspect of her characterization from the beginning of the story that she was not into formal education which is half the point of the Aegon passage, so you're not going to convince me that Martin was thinking of her --or any Stark-- when writing that.

As for your closer:

Arya is technically the lady of Winterfell already because the Boltons are using her name to hold the North and there are Northern lords rising up to fight for her.

It isn't a fair reading to conclude that the North is particularly loyal to Arya. The Northern lords want to save Ned's little girl because he was a good lord so they remain loyal to his family / want to save his child as a result. It says something good about him and about the Northmen.

The fact that the Boltons have a girl and are claiming her as a Stark to hold the North only sets the stage for them being overthrown once Theon and Jeyne's story is out and then a Stark succession crisis between any/all of the Starks upon the revelation that they're alive. I've talked in the past about the fact that while the Starks may not be power hungry, there are going to be factions promoting different heirs since each has a major detracting factor, but each also has a claim to consider. The Northern Lords simply aren't gonna hold out for a LoW Arya because Ramsay lied about marrying her when there are older heirs/male heirs around as candidates. That is, if Bran and Rickon return, or if Robb's Will pops up. Any/all of which seems more imminent than Arya's return to the North.

I've mentioned before Martin's inspo for Arya, and even though fans might enjoy seeing her take a traditional female role and shake it up and reorder it to her liking, I do not think that is the ending he set out to give her. Instead, it sounds like he wants her to be free to not marry and free to have adventures which is a lovely ending for her and one that would be fun to read--if he'd finish his main series and write some of those followups!

#dot chat

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alaynerhinestone · 1 month

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SIGHING the age difference between margaery and sansa is p big for teenagers! margaery is closer to jon and robb's age than sansa's. margaery and her family actively pursued an interest in elevating her to queen from at least the first book if not longer, tywin was actively trying to arrange a marriage between cersei and rhaegar before the maggy scene, which takes place when cersei was younger than sansa is at the beginning of the series. ned and catelyn had barely discussed sansa's options before joffrey shows up; they might have thought of it later or they might have chosen someone else. the wealthy southern houses are ambitious, but starks rarely send their daughters south to marry. sansa has talent and big dreams, and cat would at least think to take that into account. likely cat was expecting to marry her into another great house, but we know cat wanted her kids to be happy?? and be children?? for as long as they can. she was surprised and a little upset that robb was wearing live steel, even tho he's nearly an adult by westerosi standards and competent enough to manage winterfell when she understandably neglects her duties while bran is in his coma.

this is not a bad thing!! this is reasonable!! and cat did teach sansa how to be a lady the same way ned taught robb and jon to be a lord, through example and demonstration. all highborn girls have lessons with a septa, not least to occupy them while the boys are practicing hitting each other with swords. sansa and arya were also given lessons with maester luwin, which is a significant advantage that not all highborn girls get. and honestly this solid foundation gave sansa and arya the tools they needed to survive thus far!!

catelyn was expecting sansa (and arya!) to continue her education at court, under the supervision of ned and with the help of septa mordane. and cersei did try to educate her in her own terrible way––catelyn could not have known how incompetent cersei was (honestly cersei had robert killed in an incredibly sophisticated way that would still be hard to prove in real court, she is a lot more together in the first book). ned resolved to end the betrothal as soon as he saw what joffrey was like, he definitely believed revealing joffrey's parentage would make this easy.

margaery came to king's landing with an army at her back, knowing there was a possibility, however slim, of the lannisters rejecting an alliance. she knew she was entering a city her family had been starving out for months!! she brought food!!! she was prepared. she knew exactly what she was getting into!! loras had almost definitely been feeding the tyrells information about the court for years, if only so they'd know what was going on lol.

the tyrells are absolutely the lannisters' foils, I think that's pretty clear? margaery is the political powerhouse cersei wants to be, and she has the support and respect cersei craves. loras is the new Best Tourney Knight who mostly lives up to the ideals jaime strives for without really trying, and his relationship actually is unfairly discriminated against instead of just creepy (affectionate). willas is the scholarly heir trusted absolutely, like his claim is so rock solid he is just left with the castle, and he has a more 'socially acceptable' disability (in tyrion's mind especially!). like they are both engaged to sansa even. and olenna is who tywin thinks he is, except she also has the power of being a reasonable adult who would prefer that people (not joffrey) didn't get hurt. then garlan is just a good guy, all the lannisters wish they had a garlan

for the record, also, sansa tried to 'talk up' joffrey because she was terrified. she does not like anything about joffrey at this point and is desperately trying to think of things to say that won't get her killed?? what olenna and margaery do so well, and what is indicative of their strength as politicians and the power of being nice to people, is put sansa at ease enough that she's willing to tell them the truth. like yes sansa was fully deluding herself at one point, accepting joffrey's apology for lady's death, but she starts to hate him as soon as he has ned arrested (and their household killed??). how many of us can say we have not gone a little delusional over a crush in middle school regardless of what our parents taught us. lmao.

cat and ned may not have prepared sansa to be queen but they are the reason alayne is still kind, and that is why she inspires the kind of loyalty littlefinger can't, which will prove to be her greatest weapon.

#sansa stark #margaery tyrell #cersei lannister

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sshireens · 1 month

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2, 6, 8, 12 👉👈?

THANK YOU YINNIE 💓💓💓

2. a compelling argument for why your fave would never top or bottom

this requires me to narrow down my favs, which is so much more difficult than i ever could have expected. yin if i don’t answer the ask quickly this was why. catelyn tully would never top because ned lays pipe and she’s a freak like that. saw a ss of a reddit post that was like ‘my wife likes to get blitzed and then come home and have me fuck her brains out’ and thats her. brienne is never bottoming and jaime is never topping because jaime has some kind of reversed gender thing going on that makes him want to be a girl but not to another man. and brienne lives to serve. she literally is a sword. and thats a penis metaphor as we all know. margaery is never topping men because despite being the first ally in westeros she thinks thats weird. these are compelling arguments to me! daenerys stormborn is NEVER. NEVER NEVER NEVER. never bottoming because A). thats the prince that was promised B). jon likes to get dicked down C). i personally believe that being sold and traded will lees her to discover (amidst her several trysts with irri jhiqui and doreah (bc u cant tell me otherwise. irri is canon first of all)) that she, as the breaker of chains and mother of dragons and khaleesi of the great grass sea, is not inclined to experience things at the whim of others but rather the opposite. is that appropriate to say.

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

oh god. SORRY PLEASE DONT SHOOT ME EVERYONE! daemyra (this might be biased bc i just dont like daemyra) some sansan ppl really get under my skin…. LUCEMOND JESUS CHRIST. almost forgot about them (was almost free). wow sorry lucemond shippers first place for annoying. its not that im an omegaverse toxic incest yaoi anti its just. Its the people it truly is i cannot even enter that circle. there is a blog on here though i can’t remember the url of that makes cute sfw art that doesnt frighten me and ive been known to browse, even hit like once or twice. lucemond still stay away from me please

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

daenerys is not going to be queen of the seven kingdoms NOR SHOULD SHE BE. if daenerys takes the iron throne the whole series is pointless

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

what qualifies as unpopular. also what do we consider like. because i consider like as in ‘this is a fun character to see interact with the world’ and NOT!!!!!!!!! ‘i support this guy’. just to clarify for any other viewers at home. a character ive seen a lot of people Dislike but i think deserves to be heard out is criston because he’s funny and thats it thats why everyone should like him. but i dont consider him unpopular? hmm tough tough …… will i get flayed if i say larys like i mean he’s just sick i love wondering what is going on in that head. in regards to characters i think are not given enough attention: jaehaera targaryen. ‘she’s a little girl shes a non-character’ SHUT UP. she’s a little girl exactly. she didn’t get the chance to be her own person she is alicent’s pain helaena’s pain and her own. GOD MY BABY GIRL….. she names her dragon death…… AUGH DONT EVEN TALK TO ME DOONNTTT EVEN. um also rhaella, daughter of rhaena the lesbian AND! mother of daenerys. bc first of all rhaella and aerea switches thats true. so like. rhaella septa rhaella wondering if that was meant to be her. wondering if maybe it would have never happened if she hadn’t traded places. is it kinder to force her twin into the faith or to let her die? Augh. also daenerys’ mommy just… why dont we know about her i need more people on here like me willing to band together to make up canon. i guess thats not really a reason why people should like them. ALSO SHIREEN BARATHEON I DONT KNOW IF YOU CAN TELL BUT IM THE BIGGEST SHOOTER FOR SHIREEN THATS BABY THATS MOTHER THATS THE PRINCESS THATS MY DAUGHTER THATS ME I LOVE HER SO BAD OH NY GOD SHIREEN PEASE COME HOME THE PEOPLE MISS YOU. and i know everyone dgaf about baby boy bowl cut brown boba eyed broken bran. but i gave birth to him. and thats why you should like him.

i don’t consider myself a targ girlie and then it comes to questions abt asoiaf and i can only answer in reference to them 😔 tried to be diverse 🤞

#asoiaf #ask game #amethyinst

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written-in-flowers · 2 years

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I just read your fic about Otto Hightower and I must say that I love the way you write. May I ask for y/n being Viserys' first child and Rhaenyra's older sister? (If it's nsfw even better) 👀

Thanks for the request! I'm quite enjoying writing Otto being a total perv lol <3 This um...took a turn...don’t hate me...

***

Something Unholy

He liked watching you, and you knew that he did. It was why you came here every morning before sunrise. A moment where the castle is still and quiet; servants are in their quarters or beginning to rise before their masters do, and the other nobles have not woken yet. Otto liked taking morning walks before beginning his day. He liked using the time to reflect, think on his agenda for the day and what matters laid ahead of him. Being Hand of the King came with many responsibilities; many of which required ample consideration. But, that was not the only reason he stopped at the royal sept.

Standing by one of the statues, he remained in the shadows as you stayed kneeling at the altar of The Maiden. A small stirring began simply seeing you there in a silk crimson gown with gold accents. His eyes scanned down your body, already envisioning you nude before him. But, he’d see that later. For now, he stood on the other side of the small sept and watched you glance over your shoulder a quite moment. You knew he was there now. Through faint morning light and the dimness of candles, Otto watched as you spread your kneeling legs. He bit his lower lip when he noticed your dress be carefully lifted up your thighs to your waist. Anyone could walk in right then and see you. A septon or septa might come in for morning prayer and find you, the Crown Princess Y/N, touching herself in the royal sept. That is why you both enjoyed it so much.

A faint moan carried to him from the other side of the room. Otto reached underneath the flap of his tunic and grabbed himself. His eyes focused on your exposed ass, and the way you moved back and forth on your hand. He recalled what he’d done to that bottom a few nights ago. He remembered your soft gasps and surprised squeaks when he licked at it, muttering about how much he’d like to stuff himself in there. Of course, he did not. He played with your sweet pussy instead.

You were Viserys’s and Aemma’s first born. You’d married Ser Laenor Velaryon and bore him two children. Rhaenyra married your uncle, Daemon, and lived on Dragonstone. By all accounts, he should not pursue anything with you. Not only is he old enough to be your father, but you are married to someone else. Yet, that did nothing to discourage you. You still came to the sept and touched yourself while he watched. You came to his chambers late at night, willing and hungry for him. Otto pumped himself a bit faster when he heard your breathe become heavier. He walked around the circular room slowly, and stayed to the shadows and out of your sight. When he ended up beside The Maiden, he saw the front of you and forced back a groan.

You’d lowered the front of your dress, so it went right beneath your hard nipples. You must’ve sensed his presence, since you then slightly leaned backwards so he saw where your hand was. He wished he could see it. He loved seeing it wet, throbbing and clenching for his mouth and fingers. He jerked his cock more, the precum starting to leak from the tip. You started going faster, rocking on your hand once more, and using your free hand to tease a nipple.

“Otto...please...” you moaned in a whisper, grabbing your breast and squeezing what you could while you quickened your pace.

“Keep going, Princess,” he urged you, using his precum to slicken his movements. “Keep-K-Keep going.”

He watched you nearly bounce on your own fingers. He leaned back against the statue; his eyes fell shut, losing himself in his own pleasure. Otto knew you watched him from the altar. He looked back to see you the same way: eyes closed and slowly being undone by your own touch. It was a sight he’d enjoy regularly. He sometimes thought of locking you in his tower, and be his pretty toy. He pictured you on all fours, lower half exposed and left for him to fuck at his leisure. He could suck and lick your pretty cunt...fuck your tight ass and spray his cum all over your beautiful face.

You came before he did. You bit back your cries, and kept your eyes shut as your orgasm rippled throughout your body. Otto followed right after, but he only spilled onto the floor instead of on you. There’d be plenty of time for that another day. The both of you rode out your own highs before finally settling down. He threw you a small smile, which you returned in a panting laugh. You each fixed yourselves up, and shook off the numbness in your bodies.

He let you walk out first after you finished settling your hair again. With a final look back at him, you said your farewell and went out into the real world. Otto took a look at the statues around the room. He truly could say only the Gods knew what you and him did together. If he went to Hell, it’d certainly be for this. But, you were worth it every time.

#otto hightower #otto smut #otto x you #otto x reader #house of the dragon #hotd drabbles #hotd imagines #hotd fanfiction #otto fanfic

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lya-dustin · 1 month

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Shock and Delight

Chapter 12

Cw: slight misogyny, Criston's Madonna-Whore Complex, mentions of bullying as a child

Aemond doesn’t send his flowers in person and has his page do it for him with a note meant for Aemma; they are supposed to be in thanks for their walk together.

Despite the urge to be witty at Aemma’s expense, Aemond knows this mummery cannot fail.

Unlike Rhaena’s suitor, he had not accidentally given her his condolences, and unlike the Blackwood Boy, he had not implied he was a woman in love with Baela.

Daisies with lavender and baby’s breath and some other flowers that complimented Aemma and declared some sort of romantic feeling while being the most modest thing she’s gotten.

A simple and yet meaningful thing that will make suitors up their game when their intendeds hear of this through the Morning Scandal.

“You have never done any of this before, your highness.” Cole looks at the rough drafts of said note with equal parts paternal interest and warrior’s suspicion.

“None have been Aemee.” he said with a shrug.

A good enough lie.

He’d never pretended to have an entire relationship with someone before. Aemee was also different from all the ladies because she was his half-niece and very willing to pretend to love him like that.

Aemond could even say he loves her, and it wouldn’t be a lie because he does love her as one loves their family. Not that he wants Cole asking him about it, he’d go straight to mother with the news.

“You would betray the cause for a crown for yourself?” Cole also knows him well.

He is not a romantic, he is pragmatic. Logic over feeling. Gods know feelings have fucked up everyone’s lives enough in this family.

“It would be a good move on our part, Rhaenyra wouldn’t want to kill us when it could cost her Aemma.” The prince lies. “Besides shouldn’t my mother be considering the cost of a war so close to winter while we have the Stepstones and, most importantly, the stain of kinslaying over giving Aegon a crown?”

A queen counts the cost against her own people, empty words for someone who has been preparing for a war since he lost his eye. A justified reason to wage it, but considering half the Reach doesn’t like grandfather and Lady Sharra Tyrell was given her son’s regency by Rhaenyra’s meddling on the first day back here, it was just a foolish idea.

“You know it isn’t about giving your elder brother his rightful inheritance, your highness. It is about upholding tradition and what the Faith has taught us all.” Cole defends mother with every breath he takes and Aemond, to be frank, grows tired of it with each passing day.

Why did people, especially Criston, have to hold his mother in such a high pedestal? Why can’t she just be Alicent who does a respectable job at keeping the realms together instead of this sinless and pure, the Mother reborn in flesh image they raise against Rhaenyra’s?

None of those people talk of his mother’s capabilities as a stateswoman or the compassion she has for women and children, they just say she is pretty and pious and praise grandfather and the Faith for her goodness. No one thinks she is good because she made herself good.

Gods, barely a fortnight has gone, and already Aemma’s strange views have rubbed off on him. If people ever viewed them without the screen of more myth than men, they’d realize they could rule themselves and kill them all.

“Dorne follows the Seven and they have female heirs and lords, which has gone very well for them. Only realm to have killed a dragon and all that.” It’s a potshot, but it gets Criston to stop talking about this. “Aemma would make a good ruler, better than her own mother and Aegon if you ask me.”

Aemma giggles as she reads the note over and over and keeps Aemond’s flowers in her best vase in the sitting room.

“Careful, Lady Morning will write about it.” Septa Teora teases as they rest from having delivered in person the last batch of flowers to the septs in the city.

It had been a good opportunity to see how Kingslanding was doing under the rule of the greens, so far it was rather the same as when they’d left. The charities were well run even if they depended on the recipient to be in the Faith, the guilds were mostly satisfied, but the schools suffered a disparity between the sex of their students.

That had been put in her agenda, but for now they focused on the Septs in Flea Bottom as they provided the backbone to the charities.

The Sept in Flea Bottom needed much work, as did the orphanages and schools they had for their flock. The ones in the more well-to-do parts were in perfect shape and sang praises of Alicent and Helaena, one had even gone as far as to have the Mother modeled after Alicent despite looking about as young as the Maiden.

Very clever of her, even if her faith was as false as her smiles, she had the faith and the faithful smallfolk on her side. Useful for when she usurps her mother. After all who cares if you’re going against the king’s will if people have a good image of you in their heads.

“She better, or else Aemond must step up his game.” Aemma would love to tell her, but Teora would tell mother this was all a ruse.

“You like him, don’t you?” the Septa asks, and it hurts Aemma to lie to someone who is a mother to her in all but name.

Although it’s not much of a lie, in the brief time they had since reacquainting themselves, Aemma has come to like Aemond as a friend. He had a sharp wit, a hidden sweetness underneath the viper-like exterior and understood her as only a true friend would.

“We were always fond of each other when we were children. I wouldn’t mind marrying him.” Somehow that was all true, Aemond and Aemma had been born within months of each other and neither had dragons until they were one and ten, so naturally they would spend most of their time together hiding from Aegon in grandfather’s library.

Grandfather then introduced them to history and philosophy and for a few moments Aemond knew what it was to have a father who cared. Until they were banished from there because the Maesters feared the Rot was contagious and could harm them. After that they contented themselves with Helaena’s room and Teora taking the books to and from the library under the tabard of her habit.

“You could if you wanted, your grandmother was fond of telling me that she and my brother were friends before they were sweethearts, Aem.” Teora means well, but this match with Aemond was nonsense. His mother would use all she could to stop it and mother would never part with her to give the Greens a new hostage. Luke wrote he was called Luke Waters by some novices who went unpunished by their superiors and forbidden from flying without the permission of the Seneschal, other than that he seemed fine.

“Perhaps, but I would rather know if I can find a perfect consort elsewhere before looking into my immediate family. Some new blood might help us secure allies should the worst comes to pass.”

So far Aemma had Kermit Tully, Joffrey Arryn, Tyrion Lannister ---only son of Ser Jason Lannister and his wife Leona Lefford--- and Robert Rowan to choose from. Aemond had helped her whittle down the list to the four men of good moral and standing to have his grandfather rethink his stance on usurping her mother.

Lord Grover may be on the side of tradition because the Gods gave him only sons and no granddaughters, Joffrey was Cousin Jeyne’s heir, Tyrion would make his father change allegiances and Robert Rowan was nephew of Otto through his dearly departed sister who hated his guts.

None of them disparaged Aemond for losing his eye, none of them care that her mother fucked Harwin and none of them did things that were unbecoming of a future king consort…or so she’s seen so far.

Now all Aemma needed to do was make sure they were compatible. Easier said than done.

#aemma velaryon #aemond targaryen x velaryon!oc #shock and delight fic #bridgerton!au #aemond targaryen #hotd fic #hotd oc

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lemonhemlock · 1 year

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https://at.tumblr.com/lemonhemlock/bro-wtf-happened-with-aegon-iii-and-viserys-ii/83go94e2ymsm

Can you please explain what happened to Ageon III and Daenaera’s children?

And Viserys II aswell? What went wrong with them? I just saw the show recently and haven’t read the books so I’m not sure (2/2)

Aegon III and Viserys II together produced 4 boys and 4 girls, enough for 4 exclusive Targaryen matches, should they have wished. Aegon had Daeron (143 AC), Baelor (144 AC), Daena (145 AC), Rhaena (147) and Elaena (150) - my goodness, these birth ages are so close, it's almost like Daenaera Velaryon is just a living womb or smth. 🙄 Viserys started having children earlier - Aegon IV (135 AC), Aemon (136 AC) and Naerys (138 AC).

The most baffling decision in all of this is that Viserys II forced his children Aegon IV and Naerys to marry in 153 AC, when it was clear that they couldn't stand each other. Aegon was generally a vile person, but he absolutely terrorized Naerys. She was uniquely predisposed to be his greatest victim. She couldn't escape him, she was frail, had health issues, was emaciated, repressed, an extremely religious person and would have preferred to become a septa. Failing THAT, Aemon and Naerys were presumably in love and would have probably managed to have a far happier marriage.

I get that, going by Targaryen logic, the eldest son has dibs on the eldest daughter, but Aegon made Naerys' life a living hell. He loathed Naerys, but insisted on having sex with her, just to terrorize her, even though she was obviously very uncomfortable with the concept of sex in the first place AND EVEN THOUGH Aegon already had tens of mistresses and could have gotten his rocks off anytime. Naerys almost died giving birth to Daeron II in 153 AC and BEGGED Aegon to leave her alone, since she had already provided an heir for him. Aegon refused just because he was the biggest arsehole who ever lived. He kept getting Naerys pregnant against her will until she eventually did die in childbed in 183 AC.

Most of this shit was happening when her father was still alive. What did he do about the constant rape and health threats his daughter was subjected to? Not a damn thing. Boneheaded nitwit BAELOR did more for Naerys than her father ever did by sending Aegon to Essos one time after Naerys was recovering from giving birth to twins so he wouldn't get her pregnant immediately again (!!)

Even Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, who was so pressed about his brother torturing his beloved Naerys, was such a fucking beta to this clown. I swear, all this man did his entire life was act like a goddamn cuck for his loser male relatives, even though he was arguably the sanest and the most capable out of all them, but he was too much of a bitch to grow a spine. At one point, two dudes try to assassinate Aegon AND INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM, Aemon saves Aegon and gets killed instead. Aegon kills Naerys a year later by getting her pregnant again. 🤦‍♀️

Anyway, it's not that I would particularly wish to saddle any woman with such a vile worm like Aegon IV, but it seems evident within the text that Daena would have been a far, far better match for him than Naerys. Daena is known to history as "the Defiant"; she had a lively and fiery personality and actually was willing to have voluntary sex with Aegon. Even Aegon seems to have liked Daena, if he was willing to sneak his way into the Maidenvault to get into her pants. They have a bastard son together, Daemon Blackfyre, encumbering House Targaryen with 4 (5?) future Blackfyre rebellions, because, guess what, bastards DO create succession crises in this universe !!!!

What you also need to understand is that the throne passed down like this: Aegon III -> Daeron I -> Baelor -> Daena -> Rhaena -> Elaena -> Viserys II -> Aegon IV -> children of Aegon IV

My favourite part in all of this is when, after Baelor dies, Viserys looks at this line of succession, sees his nieces are in front of him and says "You know what. Fuck that. My mother WAS a usurper" and proceeds to proclaim himself king. Then dies a year later, allegedly poisoned by his own rat of a son.

Aegon IV is such a fucking trainwreck of a king that I won't even attempt to get into it, but probably the worst thing that the does for the ENTIRE realm for generations to come is to legitimize his Great Bastards (i.e. children birthed by mistresses coming from noble houses) and to intentionally spread rumours that his trueborn son, the future Daeron II, was Naerys' bastard fathered by Aemon, just to fuck with Naerys, Aemon and Daeron. Daeron II will later have to deal with the Blackfyre rebellion thanks to his dear old dad.

Aegon IV also was the father of Bloodraven, whom I low-key (high-key) think is evil.

So that's Viserys' side of the family, but first came Aegon's side. Daeron I must have only waited a hot minute after his balls finished dropping, because he thinks that invading Dorne is a fine idea and that he should totally become a great military hero at the tender age of 14. This is not the most celebratory thing, because Dorne doesn't really want to be conquered. They don't want to be part of the Seven Kingdoms. Daeron is, therefore, assassinated, and is followed on the throne by Baelor.

Baelor the Blessed. Yes, that fucking lunatic. What more can I say. Another fucking half-baked idea this family had (Daeron I, it must have been his brainchild) was to wed BAELOR to freaking Daena. The same Daena who craved Aegon IV's musty sausage and "idolized" her brother Daeron. I feel like (??) either of those marriages would have been much better? What on god's green earth was going on in this House of Commons? Similarly, Baelor would have been better paired with his religious sister Rhaena (who later became a septa) or with Naerys herself. So many religious fanatics in this generation for some reason.

Either way, Baelor was a very special type of idiot. He walked all the way to Dorne to secure Aemon's release (who had been captured as a result of Daeron I's assassination). He voluntarily went into a pit of vipers to free Aemon, suspended inside a cage. He felt the gods would protect him, you see. A captive, probably very weakened Aemon had to physically drag this imbecile into the cage with him, so he wouldn't die. Then he had to free his own damn self using the key, climb out of the cage with a blacked-out Baelor on his back and carry him along the road until they reached safety.

Baelor is kind of a mixed bag in the sense that sometimes he pulls some shit out of his arse and you start thinking maybe there is something to this guy, but then he goes and does something norm-defyingly stupid like imprisoning his sisters in the Maidenvault, so he wouldn't be "tempted" to have relations with them, or fasting himself to death because he had "lusts". Even Baelor wasn't immune to the targussy; he just couldn't handle it.

ANYWAY, I'm sure there's stuff I've missed with the Aegserys cousins, but now you have the basics.

#aegon iii targaryen #viserys ii targaryen #aegon iv targaryen #prince aemon the dragonknight #naerys targaryen #daeron i targaryen #baelor i targaryen #daena targaryen #rhaena targaryen #elaena targaryen #asoiaf #house targaryen #ask #anon

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sarcasticsweetlara · 6 months

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The Crown of the Avenging Queen per Alliance Elinor Costayne

While I truly believe Maegor never cared enough to make any of his queens have a coronation (the maximum I give him is ordering a portrait of him with his wives in which they have to hold on to him) I think Elinor Costayne was able to have the right to a crown not as a queen dowager but as the queen who allegedly killed Maegor and therefore freed the path for Jaehaerys.

Elinor had been considered a candidate to marry Jaehaerys since she was still young and had proved her fertility; even if they never married I believe they were good friends since Jaehaerys and Alysanne provided for her and Elinor was willing to preach the Targaryen Exceptionalism Doctrine.

I like to believe that before embarking on her travels throughout the Seven Kingdoms Elinor had a crown for herself given by Jaehaerys and Alysanne as a way of saying thanks for having supported them as a Queen per Alliance. Much more recognition than she ever got from Maegor.

Interesting enough is that despite being the youngest of the Black Brides of Maegor I, she's usually counted as the fourth wife instead of fifth.

I think it's counted that way since she was the first one Maegor picked due to maybe already knowing about her as Elinor's first husband Theo Bolling had been one of Maegor's own champions and because of her three sons - as she had more children than Jeyne and Rhaena-. It's obvious Maegor set up Theo to accuse him of betrayal in order for Maegor to have Elinor. Maybe after Rhaena, Elinor was one of the wives Maegor wanted the most since Maegor let her youngest (a baby) be around her even though she couldn't breastfeed him and as he could have settled simply over Jeyne and Rhaena, but he picked Elinor whom he already knew; however this does not mean he actually loved her; and also Maegor didn't try to kill Elinor after her son turned out to be a stillborn as he did with Alys Harroway and would have done with Jeyne Westerling had she survived.

In the end, I think Elinor chose to become a septa in order for herself to distinguish herself from Maegor and find inner peace after everything she went through and create a legacy of her own.

...

This makes us see that if Jaehaera had lived but not been crowned as the Dance of the Dragons had already been won by Aegon III, she could have gone anywhere else and just for the sake of their alliance be declared Queen per Alliance.

#house costayne #westeros #elinor costayne #queen elinor costayne #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf ladies #maegor already knew and lusted after elinor costayne #maegor wanted elinor for himself #elinor costayne killed maegor #maegor thought himself entitled to elinor costayne #maegor i targaryen x elinor costayne #just look at how maegor technically made elinor's sons princes in all but name #maegor x elinor

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writingsofwesteros · 1 year

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daemon/septa this, daemon/septa that... how about larys/alicent's septa!!!! he uses her for information but she's so good at sucking him off that he decides to keep her around for his own enjoyment and she never wanted to be a septa anyway, was probably forced into it by her family because she wasn't pure enough for their liking, now she's larys's willing sidekick and they want to ruin everyone's lives together & fuck in inappropriate places (only you will understand this vision!!!! larys remains underrated!!!!)

!!!!!!!

Hehe, it's so true...don't even ask why he's so good. oopsie

ALL OF THIS !! THE HOTTEST!!

Especially when Larys thinks he's corrupting some soft, sweet septa . He's in for a surprise that's for sure.

I'm sure they can marry under Aegon's rule...Lary's reward ;)

#septa of pleasure

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goodqueenaly · 2 years

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@mzyraj replied to your post “Am I the only person - I’m probably the only...”I do like this, my only thought being that she...”

I do like this, my only thought being that she didn't really want to continue being his wife (I remember mention of wanting to be as siblings again after producing Daeron, which he refused), but a speech can still be made to protest her fidelity and protect Daeron's position 🤔

To be sure, Naerys would have been facing a very different dilemma from that faced by Katherine at Blackfriars. Since her trial was not on the validity of her marriage itself, as Katherine’s was, but on Naerys’ allegedly treasonous conduct within that marriage, Naerys would not need to have emphasized quite the same points as Katherine did on the legal foundations of her marriage. Certainly as well, Naerys might have avoided Katherine’s opener citing “all the loves that hath been between us” during her marriage to the king; Naerys’ nuptial fidelity might have been unimpeachable, but even Naerys might have hesitated to assert publicly that she had ever loved the man who had been her abuser and rapist, as well as a notorious philanderer, for the better part of 20 years (much less that he had ever loved her in turn).

However, I could see where Naerys’ argument might still have focused to some extent on her position as Aegon’s one true wife. Whatever desire Naerys may have had prior to her marriage to become a septa, and whatever doubts she may have had on divine approval (or lack thereof) toward her marriage in the context of the Doctrine of Exceptionalism and the extinction of the Targaryen dragons, Naerys may nevertheless have believed that once she was married she was married, and that no one could set it aside after that. Too, while Naerys did ask Aegon to “live henceforth as brother and sister” with her following the birth of Daeron, this reads to me more like Naerys requesting a chaste marriage than Naerys asking to set the marriage aside entirely (which is not entirely without precedent in our own world: Margaret Beaufort took a vow of chastity while married to her last husband, for example, while Clothilde of France agreed to live with her husband as brother and sister after years of marriage); after all, Naerys was explicitly trying to avoid the potentially deadly consequences of another pregnancy, and Yandel notes that Aegon, after his cruelly joking reply, “insist[ed] his sister perform her wifely duties” - that is, being raped by him - “for the rest of her life”. Naerys may also have been wise enough to consider the potentially negative ramifications of not portraying herself as Aegon’s wife, or otherwise suggesting that she didn’t want the marriage to continue. Aegon already had a highborn bastard son in Aegor Rivers (as well as Daemon, although as yet Aegon had not acknowledged him as his son), and the Brackens had already angled to replace Naerys with Barba if the former had died in childbirth; would Aegon, seeing that his hated wife wanted out of their marriage anyway, move then to oust Daeron from the succession as the product of treasonous adultery, without the benefit of his mother’s protection?

So I could see where Naerys, much as she may have personally (and justifiably) hated being married to Aegon, would have styled herself in such a speech as unassailably Aegon’s obedient, lawful wife. Far from admitting to beginning an extramarital affair (which, again, I certainly believe she didn’t do anyway), Naerys may have wanted to underline that she had always followed the patriarchal Westerosi mandates of wifely submission and faithfulness; indeed, she may even bring up those “wifely duties” she “performed” without fail at his insistence, the more to demonstrate that she was willing (in the view of a world which has no concept of marital rape, of course) to have sex with him - but only him - at the risk of her own life because the Seven had decided that she should live as his wife and that women have to obey their husbands. She was his wife in the eyes of the Seven and the realm, the only wife he could have so long as either lived, and Daeron was his only legitimate son and perforce his heir, and these truths Naerys may have wanted to stridently defend.

#tumblr replies #naerys targaryen #aegon iv targaryen

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sweetestpopcorn · 1 year

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What do you think made Viserys III marry his two eldest children together? Was he projecting his feelings about Larra leaving (if I had to suffer, so shall you") or was it just typical Westeros misogyny?

Hi there!

When Viserys II married his kids to each other he was simply following the Targaryen tradition to marry brother and sister. It makes sense for him to want his heir to marry and produce pure-blood Targaryens for his line.

Aegon IV was the eldest of his sons, so he should be married first, and Viserys only had one daughter - Naerys - it made sense for him to marry her to Aegon IV instead of Aemon (who she liked best). Moreover, if I am remembering correctly, Naerys opposed marrying Aegon because she wanted to become a septa. I don't believe she ever mentioned to Viserys II that she liked Aemon more for instance.

For someone like Viserys II and most fathers in Westeros, his family name was more important than the "whims" of his daughter. Likely he looked at Naerys and saw a young girl who didn't know better and didn't understand the importance of carrying on their family name. It's not a stretch in my opinion that this would be particularly important for him having seen what happened to his own family during the Dance, knowing firsthand how a family with many members can become a family with very little members -> post Dance we only had four Targaryens left, Baela, Rhaena, Aegon III, and Viserys II, and of the four only two would pass the name Targaryen to their kids. Besides, at this time his son Aegon IV was handsome and charming, very popular at court. He had many friends and many ladies liked him. It would not surprise me that Viserys II would struggle to understand what about him Naerys didn't like. Even because, busy and detached as he was, likely he only knew his son at a surface level and chose to ignore much (like so many fathers do even in our world).

This was not some plot on his part to make his kids suffer because he suffered or some master plan of misogyny. Let's please look at characters and judge their actions based on the world they lived, not ours. Almost everyone in Westeros arranged marriages for their kids. Alysanne and Jaehaerys were forcing Viserra to marry someone she didn't love - and old enough to be her grandfather besides widow and not very attractive - and George clearly wrote them in a very favourable light (though I would argue there are many problematic aspects to them turtle man doesn't appear to see). Viserys Targaryen himself was enough of a "feminist" to make a woman his heir, to marry for love and not duty when he took Alicent as his wife, and still he forced a marriage on Rhaenyra she was absolutely against. Why? Because he saw Laenor as the best choice. Like Viserys II likely saw Aegon IV as the best choice for Naerys.

Of course that what Viserys went through and the fact that he became stern after Larra left him would mean he was less willing to be empathetic and listen to his daughter. Likely less prone to reconsider his decisions and to prioritise her wishes. But this is not the same as wanting Naerys to be miserable and suffer because if he does so should everyone.

There are layers to this it's not -> so Viserys II married Naerys to Aegon IV was he:

A- cruel, or

B- misogynistic

Things are not that simple, and neither are people. The beauty of George's books is the study we can do on characters. It's not villains and heroes. It's not good vs. bad.

All the best to you!

#viserys ii targaryen #aegon iv targaryen #naerys targaryen #aemon targaryen #house targaryen #pre asoiaf #fire and blood #popocorn answers

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pattywagon2go · 4 months

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Transit Talk Thursday

Transit Talk Thursday: This post is gonna be quite a bit shorter this time around, as for the first official Transit Talk Thursday post of 2024, I want to talk about the antithesis to transit: Cars. Specifically car dependency, and I want to talk about why it sucks so much. Cars themselves I am okay with, but when you are forced into using a car for literally everything you do, then that's where my issues with it creep in, speaking as someone who just realized how bad they are.

Time to open with something that might be obvious, but car dependency is something that will single out certain people. In this world, you will find a multitude of differing preferences and beliefs, and this extends to how people get around. Some do enjoy cars, while others don't, and that's okay! What isn't okay is when cities are built with massive highways that sprawl out into suburbs which can only be reliably navigated using a car. If you have a car already and can drive it, this isn't going to be that much of a problem. But if you either don't like to drive or can't, well good fucking luck to you! You might as well not even leave your house! Happen to have a job you need to get to? If you're out in suburbia, 99% of the time you'll need a car to get there. Maybe you can carpool with a friend, but that still requires a friend who owns a car and is licensed to operate said car. And in the most of extreme cases, do you expect everything on your commute to go perfectly your way? What if there's been an unexpected road closure on your way? Now what will you do?

A good example of this is when a section of Interstate 95 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania closed due to an underpass bridge collapsing. If you have a job in the city and rely on 95 to get there, well tough luck buddy! Thankfully, SEPTA Regional Rail does run up the route of 95 and SEPTA did increase service to accommodate more people, but this is the problem with being overly dependent on one mode of transportation: You are screwed if that mode isn't available to you. It will be there in the best of times, but the worst of times will always inevitably happen. That's just life.

It's not just going to be whether you can or can't drive that's going to be the pinch point though. It's also going to be the financial pinch.

Look at these prices. Do you seriously want to fork over that kind of change for an unruly machine that needs constant attention as its your only way of getting anywhere? This isn't even factoring in the cost of fueling the damn thing or even getting car insurance so you don't pay up the wazoo in the event you get into an accident. And if you simply don't make enough to afford a car, well then you're screwed beyond belief. This is why options need to be a thing, having only one option becomes a big problem should said option not be available to you for any reason.

And while on the subject of accidents, here's a grim fact: Car dependency is killing people. In fact, 42,939 Americans alone died in 2021. That's nearly 118 people dead per DAY.

That to me is completely unacceptable.

Now here's the thing. For Americans specifically, I'm willing to bet that when you hear or even see a car crash you are dismayed by it but you don't bother thinking about what's causing fatalities like these to happen. You just shrug it off as bad driving, distracted driving, whatever other excuse it could be. I know I did before I had my eyes opened. And to an extent, yes, part of this is to blame on stuff like bad/distracted driving. But the bigger culprit is the cities that we live in FORCING these drivers on the road. And this is only going to continue to get worse and worse, especially with the boom of SUVs and pickups being more common on our roads. Shocker: Bigger car means higher likelihood of shit going wrong during a loss of control, inevitably leading to a crash or accident.

And as a bonus, here's a little thing dismantling the "Just one more lane bro" argument in regards to traffic.

No matter how many goddamn lanes you put on a highway, it will never fix traffic.

The simple reason is because the more lanes you add, the more you incentivize people to drive. From there, the highways get choked up again, and then you're back where you fucking started. Yay!

The more complex reason is that no matter how many lanes you add, you still have to contend with the fact that other streets are still small, and so as a result, will hold back how much another lane of highway will do. You can try to expand those as well, but at that rate you might as well destroy the city and everything surrounding the road to just have big roads everywhere. No matter how you cut it, you simply cannot add more lanes to fix traffic. Alan Fisher has a great video explaining this topic better here, so if you're interested, give it a watch.

So, what's the conclusion of all this?

If anything, it's to highlight exactly why car dependency sucks. From it being a burden to anyone who can't own a car and/or operate one to how it's killing thousands each year, no matter how you chop it, being overly dependent on the automobile is not the way to go moving forward. The only way to move forward is actually take a look at the past, and how we did public transportation then. Cars will continue to be a thing in society, but when everyone is forced into using one for any task that requires leaving home, you have to wonder: Is this "freedom" truly free?

#transit talk thursday

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agentrouka-blog · 2 years

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"She is too hesitant (yet!) to take charge of a situation if there is someone else to do it. To her own detriment." Yes, that's a good point and like you mention we see her when the chips are down take charge and be confident like in the blackwater, almost killing Joff, and saving Dantos. Do you think her reluctance is part of her natural personality or a learned behavior from a patriarchal society which makes women reactive and less in control of their own lives?

I would call it a mostly learned behavior.

We see echoes of this in Catelyn, whom we witness having to voice and present her opinions indirectly and phrased as suggestions, always always mindful of the fact that as a woman she is not supposed to look powerful, that the men in her life have the power to ignore and overrule her at will. Her "battle" against Ned in their bedchamber, her counseling of Robb, her deference to her father, even her attempts to stop Bran's climbing. She cannot put her foot down, ever. She lived her life mindful of her duty and trying to navigate within these shackles, and she barely acknowledges the bitterness she feels about it. We know that inside she has very clear ideas and priorities, but that is not visible on the outside. Her behavior is often deferential.

Catelyn has modeled this behavior for Sansa her whole life. It's beneficial when Sansa tries to find ways to manipulate Joffrey, but it also means she is not used to seeing women make bold and open choices - outside, perhaps, the songs. What she does see is Cat deferring to Ned, Cersei humiliated by Robert.

Septa Mordane reinforces the rididity of their society even more. Every single Septa we meet is presented in a negative light (save "Lemore"), as a judgmental or harsh source of psychological pressure. Because they teach rigid, uncreative submission. Mordane's mode of dealing with any deviation is to smack down on it.

"Stop that weeping, child," Septa Mordane said sternly. "I am certain your lord father knows what is best for you." (AGOT, Sansa III)

and

"Sansa, your lord father knows best," Septa Mordane said. "You are not to question his decisions." (AGOT, Eddard XIV)

The lesson here is clear. Choices are made by the father, or his successor the husband, or the son. Patriarchy.

Sansa is naturally not inclined to act rashly without understanding the context of a situation, but the behavior she has been taught amplifies this into a reluctance to act at all when there is no clear path.

It's no coincidence that GRRM set up Sansa in conflict with Ned. His neglect of her, his expectation of her unquestioning obedience, and his use of her as a pawn (he loved her but he was also very much a patriarch) all support this mode of behavior. All are harmful to Sansa, and impoverish Ned's relationship with her. Patriarchy.

And Sansa starts to strain against it in the first book, when the sharp edges of this social construct begin to bite her. She is independent enough to question and disagree with Ned's decisions, and his lack of regard for her concerns causes an alienation, of seeking independence from him. Ironically, modelled in her mind on her sister. "As willful as Arya". Her act of rebellion, going to secretly talk to Cersei, unfortunately coincides with Ned's arrest (and yes, going by the text it COINCIDES, it is not causally related if we look at the facts as broken down brilliantly by @istumpysk), which sadly reinforced her hesitation to trust herself with the decision-making.

In the isolation after Ned's death, in the absence of a trustworthy patriarch to make the decisions for her, surrounded by abject danger, Sansa is left feeling extremely insecure. But this is where she starts having to really make decisions for herself within the small wiggle room she has. It doesn't come easy, which is why these are always very moving moments.

Once she has escaped KL, another patriarch steps in, professing to be trustworthy: Littlefinger. He flatters her by acknowledging her intellect, he give the appearance of allowing her agency, he seemingly shares information with her. He seemingly does all the things Ned failed to do. A seemingly benevolent patriarch.

And it's obvious that Sansa slides into a familiar place, in spite of copious red flags. Even while mistrusting him, she gives him power over her decisions. But we have seen that Sansa will rebel when she reaches a certain point. Sansa doesn't truly trust, certainly doesn't love Littlefinger, like she did Ned. The point of true alienation will come sooner rather than later. But it will be a painful moment, because it means burying the illusory comforting idea that someone else can be trusted with her life choices. Independence is hard. But it's better. A thing she will keep in mind for the North itself.

We're going to see Sansa rely on herself again, with more vehemence than before. If Jon at all tries to play the patriarch after they reunite, she will be in a place of rejecting that construct much more easily than ever before.

#sansa stark #patriarchy #self confidence #decision making #eddard stark critical #catelyn stark #septa mordane #littlefinger #growth

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sshireens · 1 month

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7 & 12 for asoiaf (books or got, I don't care which I just want to see the hot takes)

THANK YOU MISA!! 💓💓💓

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

oddly enough i typically always end up liking characters the more i see content of them.. actually thats not odd i think that’s science. BUT! robb stark……… its not that i Hate Robb Stark um but i think fandom perception of him is very bad and people want him to live too much. Love that boy, but i love him dead! 🫶 much love! like the more i see people talk about him im just like god can we move on already who cares. he fulfilled the narrative purpose and that was what he was meant to do. yes i cry thinking about the red wedding but thats besides the point. robb stark gets a 2/10 on the Sshireens Rating Scale because some people ruined it for everyone else

i answered #12 here but i’ll copy and paste it!

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

#asoiaf #ask game #selfproclaimedunicorn

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alicenttully · 3 years

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“What do you dream of at night?” Duck once asked him out of idle curiosity.

Aegon shrugged. His dreams always crumbled like sand upon the hour of his waking. The only ones that did seem to stay with him, were those of his lady mother.

If he divulged such dreams to Jon, he would only tell Aegon that it was simply impossible for him to truly remember Elia Martell’s features, and the man that was dear to Aegon might have had the right of it. Whatever woman his dreams conjured was probably only half so lovely as the living Elia herself.

No, it was not so much remembering the way she looked. It was remembering the warmth that emanated from Elia of Dorne. It was love that he felt, Aegon once realized with dull clarity when he had awoken to wet cheeks during the embers of the dying night. The gods had been kind enough to give him Jon, but Aegon knew instinctively that Jon’s devotion was a different beauty than what had been stolen from him all those years ago.

Perhaps he was giving the princess too much due. Perhaps he would have hated his mother had she been allowed to see Aegon become a man grown, instead of her and his little sister being condemned to the sword. He always thought of Rhaenys as such, even though she had been three years Aegon’s elder.

Maybe Elia Martell would have only resented Aegon and Rhaenys, because she had different dreams, and those dreams did not have space for them. If that were true, maybe she would have been like a twin to Ysilla’s own mother, and then perhaps her dying was not so terrible, after all.

But that was foolish, and Aegon wanted to crush such thoughts under his feet whenever they arose. But that was the heart of it, wasn’t it? There was no way of him getting the answers he wanted, no one close to his mother that he could turn to. The closest he had was Jon. He didn’t mind Jon talking about Aegon’s father whenever he had the chance, but he couldn’t help but secretly wish that he would be willing to talk about his mother too. Not that it would have truly helped things anyway. Jon Connington never knew Elia Martell half so well as he knew his friend and prince, and even then, such understanding did not extend to him understanding why Rhaegar would take off with someone else's betrothed and shame his mother so.

But still, she committed treason for him, Aegon knew. It couldn’t have just been practicality that inspired it, a sense of practicality born of knowing that between the two; it was Rhaenys who was in lesser peril than Aegon. Or she should have been, Septa Leomore had said. Even Maegor the Cruel hadn’t sought to kill his brother’s granddaughters like he did his sons.

No, it had to be love too. Elia Martell cherished her only son enough to risk death to give him his best chance. It must have crushed her heart too, letting him go, and wasn’t that love? Letting yourself be kissed by agony if it meant protecting someone else?

Sometimes in those dreams of his mother, he dreamt that instead of being killed, the Lannisters took her captive to keep the Dornish loyal. They kept her at the Rock, but in all those long years, she never wavered in the belief that her son would one day return to Westeros. Aegon would split the Rock in half as if it were an egg, and Elia would emerge from it, her air proud and dignified still. She would tenderly touch his cheek, perhaps bearing the scars of the battle. "My son," Princess Elia would smile. "I knew you would not fail me."

He never dreamt of his father surviving.

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #aegon vi targaryen #young griff #elia martell #princess elia martell #jon connington #anti rhaegar targaryen #septa leomore #house martell

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starksinthenorth · 3 years

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Musings on ASOIAF Ladies and Ambition

I’ve noticed people use “ambition” to describe Sansa and Daenerys as if it’s a bad word or an insult (often called “power hungry”). Yet in the text of the series, neither of them are shown to be ambitious people as a core characteristic. I blame the series for a lot of this, because it failed to explore the internal dialogue of Sansa, Arya, and even Cersei, who ends up more humanized than either of them by the end (because of the maybe baby).

Cersei Lannister is the classic ambitious ASOIAF lady, whose point-of-view is introduced in perhaps the most iconic sentence of any introductory chapter:

She dreamt she sat the Iron Throne, high above them all.

I can’t think of a sentence in ASOIAF that better introduces the internal thoughts and view of its leading character.

In comparison, Sansa’s first sentence is receiving news about her father’s whereabouts, Daenerys is shown her new dress to meet Drogo, and Arya has crooked stitches again. Arya’s works to frame her relationship with Sansa and her internal struggle to fit the feminine Westerosi mold, while Sansa and Daenerys are setting up plot points. None of these interactions signal ambition, bad or good. Daenerys did not arrange her wedding, Sansa is just told the information by her Septa, and while Arya is aspiring to have straight stitches, that’s hardly an ambitious goal for a girl of nine.

Fans rarely, if ever, deny Cersei’s cruel, cold, often stupid ambition. In fact, it’s one of the reason people seem to love her. She’s internally open about what she wants - power - and when she wants it - now:

All of them are burning now, she told herself, savoring the thought. They are dead and burning, every one, with all their plots and schemes and betrayals. It is my day now. It is my castle and my kingdom.

- AFFC, Cersei III

The rule was hers; Cersei did not mean to give it up until Tommen came of age. I waited, so can he. I waited half my life. She had played the dutiful daughter, the blushing bride, the pliant wife. She had suffered . . . She had contended with Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, and her vile, treacherous, murderous dwarf brother, all the while promising herself that one day it would be her turn. If Margaery Tyrell thinks to cheat me of my hour in the sun, she had bloody well think again.

- AFFC, Cersei V

Cersei is the definition of a power hungry lady, scheming and cheating at every point. Yes, Sansa learned from her, but most of Sansa’s internalized lessons of Cersei’s were to do the exact opposite.

"The night's first traitors," the queen [Cersei] said, "but not the last, I fear. . . . Another lesson you should learn, if you hope to sit beside my son. . . . The only way to keep your people loyal is to make certain they fear you more than they do the enemy."

"I will remember, Your Grace," said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people's loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I'll make them love me.

- ACOK, Sansa VI

Cersei isn’t the only POV character who views herself outside of conventional Westerosi standards and aspires to something beyond being a wife and mother. Arya Stark has ambition writ clear on the page, though it is not so cold or denying other people their rights or chances. Compared to Cersei, Arya doesn’t want everything, crown and throne and kingdom and all. She just wants something, and even that is denied to highborn women in Westeros. Even when she asks her father about her future, a man who wants to do right by his children and loves them, Eddard Stark is blinded by Westerosi patriarchy:

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?"

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

- AGOT, Eddard V

With Arya in this, I see some parallels to Elaena Targaryen, who was so good at math and management she served as the secret Master of Coin while her husband carried the title. Elaena was “more willful than Rhaena, but not as beautiful as either of her sisters,” yet is also said to have been “more beautiful at age seventy than at age seventeen,” growing into herself like Arya is expected to. They both even cut their hair, Arya to hide her gender and Elaena to hide her beauty, both instances to gain freedom from captivity in the Red Keep.

Despite both these examples of ambition - Cersei’s all-encompassing, without care for how it affects the realm, and Arya’s attempt to find a place in the world outside the Westerosi model - it still becomes an insult when people speak of Daenerys and Sansa.

Critics claim Sansa is ambitious, and negatively so, because she “wants to be queen.” But this criticism misses a vital point of Sansa’s character. Unlike Cersei, she does not want to be queen because of the power and political influence, but because she will be living a song. In the start, Sansa’s got her head in the clouds, not to the dirty world of politics. Her very first chapter lays out this motivation incredibly clearly:

All she wanted was for things to be nice and pretty, the way they were in the songs.

When she thinks of Joffrey and being in love with him, it’s because he’s “handsome and gallant as any prince in the songs” (AGOT, Sansa II),

Alternatively, it has been said that Sansa is ambitious because of her claim to Winterfell. But compare how Sansa thinks of her claim to how Big Walder Frey does. Despite being far down the inheritance line, he is certain he will someday possess the Twins. He’s likely willing to kill his family to become Lord of the Crossing, and already has killed Little Walder.

In comparison, Sansa isn’t the one who realizes her claim as heir to Winterfell, even after her two younger brothers are believed dead. It’s Dontos who mentions it, and after she still thinks that Robb will have sons to inherit.

But she had not forgotten his words, either. The heir to Winterfell, she would think as she lay abed at night. It's your claim they mean to wed. Sansa had grown up with three brothers. She never thought to have a claim, but with Bran and Rickon dead . . . It doesn't matter, there's still Robb, he's a man grown now, and soon he'll wed and have a son. Anyway, Willas Tyrell will have Highgarden, what would he want with Winterfell?

- ASOS, Sansa II

Sansa’s not ready to kill Bran and Rickon if they show up. Her arc is about taking off the rose-tinted glasses and seeing reality, but also working to make reality like a song. For example, her idea of the Tournament of the Winged Knights for Sweetrobin. It’s a song come to life, all by her making. TBD how the ending goes, of course, but it shows that trajectory.

And finally, Daenerys.

Daenerys is not driven by some lifelong desire to win and dominate. She’s forced into it, a la Brienne’s “no chance and no choice.” If Daenerys were raised in a stable environment, I have a feeling she’d be much more like Sansa: dreamy, hopeful, sweet and studious. Happy.

But instead, her eyes are open.

When she’s introduced as a character, she shows an awareness for the schemes and politics of the world. She knows her brother is called the Beggar King in the Free Cities, and is doubtful of the smallfolk’s secret toasts to Viserys III that Illyrio Mopatis claims happen across Westeros.

Like Sansa and Cersei, there’s evidence of her goals, hopes, and wishes in the very first chapter:

"I don't want to be his queen," she heard herself say in a small, thin voice. "Please, please, Viserys, I don't want to, I want to go home."

. . .

Dany had only meant their rooms in Illyrio's estate, no true home surely, though all they had, but her brother did not want to hear that. There was no home there for him. Even the big house with the red door had not been home for him.

Daenerys remembers home as the house with the red door in Braavos. It’s her brother whose only home and stability was the Red Keep, not her.

Throughout her journey of power to take back the Seven Kingdoms, she is doubtful at every turn and most of her wishes are for happiness, for peace, for stability.

Dany had no wish to reduce King's Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts. She had supped enough on tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children. I want my people to smile when they see me ride by, the way Viserys said they smiled for my father.

- ACOK, Daenerys II

A queen I am, but my throne is made of burned bones, and it rests on quicksand. Without dragons, how could she hope to hold Meereen, much less win back Westeros?

- ADWD, Daenerys II

Even later, Daenerys is determined to bring peace to the lands she currently rules. She does plan to return to the Seven Kingdoms, but it’s not driven by pure ambition. And this is, notably, from a conversation when Prince Quentyn Nymeros Martell asks her to come back and claim them now, saying she has allies for that conquest. And still she turns him down, with promises that it will only happen eventually:

"Daenerys said. ". . . .One day I shall return to Westeros to claim my father's throne, and look to Dorne for help. But on this day the Yunkai'i have my city ringed in steel. I may die before I see my Seven Kingdoms. Hizdahr may die. Westeros may be swallowed by the waves."

- ADWD, Daenerys VII

And yet in both Sansa and Daenerys, these visions and hopes for the futures they might have are considered unbridled ambition, although they turn more on happiness and peace for themselves and their people, rather than the type of ambition Cersei has, which is clearly her own power and being heralded above everyone.

Daenerys’ thoughts in her sixth chapter of ADWD have the same energy as Sansa’s “I will make them love me.”:

"A queen must know the sufferings of her people."

. . .

A queen must listen to her people, Dany reminded herself.

Daenerys has figured out how to make her people love her, by wearing her “floppy ears” and appealing to the masses, listening to them, et cetera. She’s also a bit ahead of Sansa in the realm of ruling, to be sure.

But how are these similar thoughts ambition in either of them? It’s an attempt to empathize and connect, not to throw away and disregard and rule by force and domination. Both these ladies are more nuanced, and the fandom does them a disservice by painting them as ambitious or power-hungry when at the end for both of them, it’s a desire to have a happy, stable, loving life.

#asoiaf meta #sansa stark #daenerys targaryen #cersei lannister #arya stark

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