#orv meta

[stubbornjerk]

we could have so many better conversations about pre-apocalyose han sooyoung

was she medicating for “sleep walking?” was she considered narcoleptic? did she have a chronic sleep disorder that affected her because of the timeline shenanigans?

was she unmoored, unnerved, and a little scared when, suddenly, her disabilty slowly started getting more manageable after the world ended?

“how do you sleep at night, knowing you’ve killed many for your own sake?” yoo sangah asked once.

“like a baby,” sooyoung snarks back. like a baby. 8-10 hours that actually feel like 8-10 hours.

when sangah points out that kim dokja seemed more alive after the apocalypse, the implications of having been waiting for this moment his whole life, what about sooyoung?

#han sooyoung #orv #orv meta #orv spoilers #sorta #tagging it anywya #hsy

[cum-villain]

I just realized why ORV puts such a focus on "hey all trauma is trauma, it's never minor" in such a way we all remember it.

This is the story for Kim Dokja's fragments. And some of his fragments will live happy lives. Some will lives just as dramatically unhappy as his. But many will live different kinds of tragedies, have different kinds of traumas. And we can't just go and say "well some like Kim Dokja have it worse", all trauma is trauma. And we all deserve the same kindness and understanding of that that Kim Dokja eventually gets from his companions.

#braincell posting #orv #orv meta #kim dokja #ough sooyoung youve done so much for us and yet... and yet... #orv spoilers

[ineffectualdemon]

The thing about ORV is it's a perfect deconstruction of stories

It's about how the Author loves and resents the Reader and Character but also lives for them. Lives to feed the Reader the story and to give the Character life because he carries the story

The Reader lives for the Character and needs the Author, loving them both in different ways but he also envies the Character and is demanding of the Author

And the Character lives for the Reader and because of the Author and loves and resents them both at the same time

And they are constantly orbiting each other in this intricate dance always yearning and dependent on each other but never truly touching

It's a tragedy and a love story and a story of obsession and yearning that defies labels and also pain and resentment and guilt and it's beautiful

This why ORV has consumed me

#orv #orv meta #kim dokja #han sooyoung #yoo joonghyuk #yoohankim

[dragonomatopoeia]

A friend requested that I post some ORV thoughts on Tone and Themes from discord. I have edited the messages for better organization and clarity below:

There are a lot of quotes that you could argue are the culmination or distillation of ORV. You could also argue that ORV itself is not reducible to a single quote because of the sheer enormity of it, and how that size is a component of the story itself. But if I were to convey the specific melancholy of ORV-- my most fundamental read on the Feeling of ORV-- I would choose one quote to do so.

I’d fall back on, “In a world turned upside down, where monsters were rampant, we still had to clear the snow.”

Throughout the immense battles of good vs evil or gods and demons, ORV remains a story about people doing the things they have to in order to continue living.

And there is a distinct melancholy to that: the grief stricken “is it just this forever,” everyone being a regressor, and the mundane tragedies of struggling on in a world that will build a narrative around you regardless of your input or desires. However, all of these things are part and parcel to ‘surviving’ in a ruined world

It's about taking those small steps forward, regardless of cataclysmic tragedy and world-rending stakes. You still have to clear the snow. You still have to take care of the people around you. You still have to cook dinner. You still have to live.

It's the melancholy of a 'nevertheless', and that's a hopeful kind of melancholy. Reaching out and trying again and again. Leaving a mark on the wall because someone might read it. Regressing so that one day you won’t have to. Iterating and changing and trying again and again. It’s about making attempts.

It's about finding ways to survive, even if you've forgotten a few.

#orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #orv meta

[toast-of-eden]

Me: [having an orv-induced existential crisis] Kim Dokja’s relationship with the story of Yoo Joonghyuk is a direct metaphor for how he comes to terms with his trauma. This implies that their companionship is akin to a psychological—

Me two hours later: [writing my latest romcom fic] MAKE THEM KISS.

#orv #orv meta #post by toast #joongdok

[bidokja]

I was joking a while back that the actor they have playing KDJ for the orv movie was too handsome for him and a friend who's read orv was like "KDJ is actually secretly attractive!!" And I just felt my soul leave my body right then

SIGHS...

Okay. Buckle in. I'm gonna finally actually address and explain and theorize about this whole...thing.

I'm not gonna cite any exact chapters cause it's like 11:30 and I've got an 8 hour drive in the morning but I'll at least make an approximate reference to where certain things are mentioned. Also, this post is just my personal interpretation for a good bit of it, but it's an interpretation I feel very solid about, so do with that what you will. Moving on to the meat of things:

There is one (1) instance in the web novel that I know of which describes specific features of Kim Dokja (especially ones other people notice). This takes place when members of KimCom are trying to make Kim Dokja presentable to give his speech at the Industrial Complex (after it's been plopped down on Earth). This is when they start really paying attention and focusing on Kim Dokja's appearance since they're putting makeup on him; I still don't think they can interpret his whole face, but they can accurately pick out and retain more features than usual. If I remember correctly they reference him having long eyelashes, smooth skin, and soft hair. These features can be viewed as (stereotypically) attractive.

Certain parts of the fandom have taken this scene and run with it at a very surface level, without realizing (or without acknowledging at the very least) that this scene is not about how Kim Dokja looks. This is, in part, due to not realizing or acknowledging why Kim Dokja's face is "censored" in the first place, and what that censoring actually means. I think it's also possible that some people are assuming the censorship works like a physical phenomena rather than an altered perception.

I'll address that last point first. The censorship of Kim Dokja's features is not something as simple as a physical phenomena. It's not a bar or scribble or mosaic over his face. If that were true it'd be very obvious to anyone looking at him that his face is hidden. But his face is not hidden to people. They can look at him and see a face. If they concentrate on his eyes, they can see where he's looking. They know when he's frowning or grinning. They see a face loud and clear. But what face are they seeing? Because it's not really his, whatever they're seeing.

No one quite agrees on what he really looks like. And if they try and think about what he looks like, they can't recall. Or if they do, it's vague, or different each time. We notice these little details throughout the series. Basically, Kim Dokja's face is cognitively obscured. Something - likely the Fourth Wall, though I can't recall if this is ever stated outright - is interfering with everyone's ability to perceive him properly. This culminated in him feeling off to others; and since they don't even realize this is happening, they surmise that he is "ugly."

Moving on to the other point about what the censorship means: To be blunt, the censorship of his face is an allegory for his disconnect from the "story" (aka: real life, and the real people at his side). The lifting - however slight - of this censorship represents him becoming more and more a part of the "story" (aka: less disconnected from the life he is living and the people at his side). The censorship's existence and lifting can represent other things - like dissociation or depersonalization or, if you want to get really meta, the fact that he is all of our faces at once - but that's how I'd sum up the main premise of it. (The Fourth Wall is a larger part of the dissociation allegory, but that's for another post).

So you see, them noticing his individual features isn't about the features. It's not about the features! It doesn't matter at all which features got listed. Because they could describe any features whatsoever and it would not change the entire point of the scene. Because the point isn't what he looks like. The point is that they can truly and clearly see these features. For the first time. They are seeing parts of him for the first time. Re-read that sentence multiple times, literally and metaphorically. What does it mean to see someone as they are?

This is an extremely significant turning point dressed up as a dress-up scene.

---

P.S. / Additionally, I'm of the opinion that Kim Dokja is not handsome, and he is not ugly. He is not pretty, and he is not ghastly. Not attractive, nor unattractive. Kim Dokja isn't any of these things. More importantly, Kim Dokja can't be any of these things. The entire point of Kim Dokja is that you cannot pick him out of a crowd; he is the crowd. He's a reader. He's the reader. Why does he need to be handsome? Why must he be pretty? Why is him being attractive necessary or relevant? He doesn't, he doesn't, it's not. He is someone deeply deeply loved and irreplaceable to those around him, and someone who cannot even begin to recognize or accept that unless it's through a love letter masquerading as a story he can read. He is the crowd, a reader, the reader. He's you, he's me. He's every single one of us.

#orv #orv analysis #orv meta #orv spoilers #mine #ask #there's also the meta that he is described with these (stereotypically) pretty features as they are about to try and 'sell' him to a crowd #which feels to me like a very pointed way to convey how 'beauty' is commodified. how audiences like 'attractive' characters more #note: made some edits to add in a couple of sentences my brain forgot in the moment so make sure u reblogged those if u do #tag edits for further commentary that isnt strictly relevant to the point i was making: #do i think that this face censorship was executed as well as it could have been? nah. #not that it was like. done Badly. it's followed through to a certain point. its established enough for me to make this post at least. #but i do think it is the one thing in the web novel that SS didn't capitalize on. #like. they still stuck the landing but it was not as picture perfect of an execution as the rest of the metaphorical stuff in orv #also. this (not the face censorship specifically but the 'hes just some guy' point of it all) is one of the big reasons i think that- #-visual adaptions of orv can never quite work. they can do the best that they can with that medium but a lot of nuance is lost- #-simply by virtue of it being a visual medium #i personally think the only way a visual medium could work would be one where they commit to the power move of not showing kdj's face #(until a certain point (of view) that is) #his face is always facing away or out of frame or hidden by someone or something else in the way #commit to the fucking allegory or simply perish

[caorl]

uhh so..i started reading the book hsy talks about (barthes' mourning diary) and i'm going insane. it's a collection of notes the author started to write the day after his mother died. in short, it's a book about processing grief through writing. and... is this not what hsy have been doing during the years kdj has been in coma

i'm not even halfway through the book so i'm sure i'm gonna find even more parallels but- ugh. orv man. unbelievable. how can every single tiny thing in orv be crafted with so much care and love. how am i supposed to get over it

#cursing at the skies DAMN YOU ORV.....DAMN YOUUUU...BEAUTIFUL STORY..... #hsy is INSANE to reccomend thiss to her students so they can analys webnovels #dealing w my own grief about my mom this bookjust punched in the guts multiple times #ok usual tagging cause if i suffer everyone has to suffer too #orv posting #orv spoilers #orv analysis #hankim #orv meta #orv hsy #doksoo

[7clubs]

ORV EPILOGUE SPOILERS.

Okay so I made a random ramble thread on twitter about my ORV Epilogue headcanons/interpretations and it's become apparent to me that. Uh. My perspective is somewhat unique so here:

ORV Epilogue is a huge callback to the Disaster of Floods, and a certified Disconnected Film Theory™ moment.

When the system starts to regain power and reactivate, one of the first things said (by HSY), as the stories start to reform is "Disconnected film theory?!" and my IMMEDIATE thought was this:

This phenomenon was activated because we, aka a Kim Dokja of a different timeline, have met him through our reading of the story, and through this, KDJ regains his memories. The parts of ourselves that came directly from KDJ such as loving this story and the characters, or perhaps our own "memories" of him that were formed by the act of reading ORV.

Because why else mention DFT specifically? The fact that the systems have restarted and the storytelling is continuing were enough to signal that Kimcom's efforts could have worked, that they've successfully gotten the story out, and KDJ's fragments to wish for his return...

But DFT being mentioned naturally made me think back to its introduction, where it is most prominently utilized: the Disaster of Floods, where the two Shin Yoosungs started to have their memories, their 'films' mixed up...

Kim Dokja used his First Person POV skill at this point, and viewed the world through 41st Shin Yoosung's eyes.

DFT's initial stake in this scenario is that it's there so that, when active, if you killed one timeline's version of a character, the other one would also die, thus the party's dilemma as to whether to spare the child Yoosung. And later on, it activates when he meets the Oldest Dream...

But THIS film-related memory-fuckery also stuck out to me. Not only that... I feel like it might be implied that this happens because of an outside force: Kim Dokja.

Are you still with me. Okay. Two more things:

Why call back to the Disaster of Floods? If not to also remember how, in this scenario, the wishes of the Constellations [thus, readers] wrote the ending?

Aren't we, the reader, a fragment of Kim Dokja, the outside force in this situation?

Haven't we been using the same skill as Kim Dokja the entire time?

also, Disaster of Floods happens relatively early on, so it just scratches my story structure itch if it comes back as a bookend.

tl;dr basically. We brought him back. And we gave him back his memories.

Through the combination of 1. our imagination, our wish for KDJ to wake up, and 2. our own memories entangling with KDJ's through disconnected film theory.

DFT, in turn, activated because 1. we are him from a different timeline and 2. met him through the story that 3. kimcom busted their ass to deliver to us <3

#orv #orv spoilers #orv epilogue spoilers #orv meta #omniscient reader #omniscient reader's viewpoint #kim dokja #kdj #i'm not crazy right. like. this tracks right. #i have only read orv once and only skimmed the relevant passages so. shrug!!!! #not art

[sctir]

so i wrote an 8-page essay about personhood and yoo joonghyuk in omniscient reader's viewpoint for my real life seminar for a real life grade that will be on my academic record forever. why? because im insane.

read "me, myself, and i: recognizing personhood in omniscient reader's viewpoint" here!

i would highly recommend reading this short text as an introduction to some of the theory and terms used in my essay; ive also included an extremely condensed version of the major points used for my paper under the cut.

narrative prosthesis: disability and the dependencies of discourse speaks on disability— and more abstractly, a deficiency in something— being a vital part of literary narratives, while also disqualifying disabled people from being perceived as human.

characters need to be missing something or deficient in some way in order to necessitate a story to be told about them, and at the same time this disqualifies them from being a "human person". essentially, disability is used because of its inherent implications: that there is a story to be told about it, and that there is a story that can be made from it. the end goal of the narrative is to either "fix" this disability/deficiency, or to "prosthesize" it with an equally narratively valuable explanation or compensation, hiding it from view.

disability and its place in literature is surrounded by a myriad of issues, such as how representations of disabled people are used to justify their abuse and exploitation. disability is viewed as the "master trope of human disqualification", automatically marking someone to be completely unrecognisable as a "normal" human, and when a disability becomes too apparent— both in literature and in the real world— a prosthetic is sought by the narrative or by social pressure in order to "compensate" for the disability, restoring it to an "acceptable" level.

#omniscient reader's viewpoint #yoo joonghyuk #kim dokja #orv #orv meta #hahahh. hi. here it js. #i havent gotten it marked or anything so if its bad well. haha. 💜 #wei.post #seriously if u wanna talk abt it!! send me a msg or ask or smn #comments are also enabled on the doc itself #also please read the recommended text it really is good as a precursor for my essay but also just as a disability studies text as well #orvposting

[daydreamingoncloud9]

The fact that the "Yoo Joonghyuk from the 0th turn was willing to go through 1864 regressions solely to see Kim Dokja again" notion is so popular kinda irks me because of how it 1) strips YJH of any nuance in his character by reducing him to a pining lovesick man 2) kinda disregards an arguably more heartfelt reading of the scene

To clarify, I'm not gonna argue that YJH did not consider KDJ in his decision to regress, he evidently did, but it drives me nuts when people act like that's the only reason why YJH regressed.

Now granted, YJH did kinda start this whole conversation with "If I choose you as my Constellation sponsor, will I finally get to meet you?" and so I understand when people think that meeting KDJ face-to-face is the reason why YJH chose to regress despite the slim chances but I also want people to consider one of YJH's enduring characteristics.

YJH has always been portrayed as wanting to know the truth of the world he lived in and wanting to understand his origins. He seeks to reach the conclusion because he wants answers for his suffering and the hardships he went through. Hell, one of the things he says to KDJ during this scene was "Who am I?" and then he goes on to ask whether "the secret of this world lies beyond the wall, where you are?"

YJH of the 0th turn has reached a point in his life where he is happy but he says that it's because of that that he's "even more curious about what lies beyond the wall". He wishes to take the time to understand himself after achieving such happiness and this really feels like an example of someone seeking self-actualisation.

And this also ties into my second point because understanding YJH's (imo) primary motivation ultimately frames this scene as one where two individuals who deeply love each other have to separate because one of them has decided to dedicate their life to a certain goal while the other (reluctantly) accepts their decision because they understand that it would make their loved one fulfilled.

It's a different flavour of bittersweet from the popular reading because what separates them is ultimately YJH's desire to reach self-fulfillment and KDJ accepting his desire even if it he thinks YJH is a "dumb bastard" for doing so.

After spending so much time with YJH, both as a character and as a companion, KDJ understands better than anyone that this is what YJH needs to do. And so he lets him go.

Even if it hurts. Even if he knows that YJH would eventually resent him for it. Even if he thinks regressing will just make him miserable. He lets go because he knows that this is who YJH is and he would be remiss if he let his own personal feelings get in the way of respecting his agency.

And yes, this sucker punching line right here "Tell me, you fool. If I continue to regress, will I ever get to meet you again?" does imply that half of his reason to regress is to meet KDJ irl but! I also wanna point out that KDJ never really confirmed to YJH that he could meet him again. And taking that into consideration alongside YJH's final words to KDJ, "I shall pray that you may continue to exist somewhere too" and that he still didn't stop to second-guess his regression, you're kinda left with the impression that YJH would have still gone on this journey even with the possibility that KDJ may never show up again in the future. He regresses with the small hope that they will meet each other again but he doesn't move forward solely because of that small hope.

I like to think that it's because in the 0th turn, YJH already considers them to be companions and even if he doesn't meet KDJ again, that doesn't mean their bond didn't exist.

Because, as he said about his other companions, "Just because I will forget about them, doesn't mean they'll suddenly stop existing".

Much like how the Demon King of Salvation won't stop existing even if he forgets him.

But like, regardless of whether my interpretation is right or not, I just think that YJH going forward for his own truth rather than just a desire to see KDJ again makes for a sweeter narrative after the bittersweet ending of the 0th turn.

Because as luck would have it, KDJ would once again guide YJH towards the end on his 1864th turn in the future/past, just like how he did during the 0th turn.

Regardless of YJH's personal motivations and KDJ's personal hangups, the two are irrevocably linked and that small hope from seemingly aeons ago finally became reality after countless lives.

Maybe this is why they are called "Life and Death Companions".

#tldr #I think there's a way to interpret this scene without taking away YJH's nuance while still emphasizing Joongdok's connection #maybe one day I will actually be concise in what I'm saying #omniscient reader's viewpoint #orv spoilers #orv novel spoilers #orv analysis #orv meta #yoo joonghyuk #kim dokja #joongdok #-gesturing wildly- as with everything orv‚ it's about the sacrifice and the salvation #The Cloud Talk

[stubbornjerk]

As a general post for the additional analyses requested from this video essay, I talked about Kim Dokja's own core of characters acting as symbolic of his own character being his first four constellations, to parallel Yoo Joonghyuk's main core.

So here it is, from one of the comments on the vid that requested it! (under a read more to protect ppl from spoilers)

i think i stumbled on it when i was trying to figure out why his first four [constellations] lasted so long and became so important that they basically became channel mods. and it came to a head around the jttw arc and the reveal w ABFD being a teenager that: sun wukong, uriel, ABFD AND secretive plotter are all forms dokja as a reader and all explore themes that are important to dokja's development as a reader.

which sounds like a small thing, except that since he loves TWSA, they all are indicative of how he interacts with the scenarios and his company!

sun wukong read jttw over and over just to find himself again, to finally reach an answer that would explain his listlessness. there's already a whole arc in the novel that explores this so this much is pretty much self-explanatory

uriel is thrilled by new developments and is an active participant in a lot of scenarios, intervening through channel messages kind of like dokja’s comments that ended up affecting TWSA (jang hayoung is the biggest example of this). she also has the strongest bonds with the company’s incarnations, a bond she thrills over, esp her bond w jung heewon.

abyssal black flame dragon loves the power-scaling, not bc he thinks power is thrilling, but bc he himself hasnt felt the thrill of power in a long time. he's got the worst depression possible. its stated that hes one of the most powerful dragons out there already, but appears and maintains his teen age because he wants to "maintain his curiosity of the world." ABFD is more indicative of dokja’s child self than kim namwoon, which is why han sooyoung ends up choosing him as her sponsor and why dokja seems especially dismissive of him.

secretive plotter, based just on that extended description in the vid, is a little obvious already. hes looking for His reader out of envy of 1864!hyuk’s found purpose and relationship with his own. this is why he clashes w sun wukong a lot bc while sun wukong is seeking answers that would give him closure by rereading his finished story, plotter wants connection and a reinvigorated purpose after finishing his own story. he wants a satisfying conclusion.

put together, these constellations form a very clear view of a dokja after TWSA, wanting to feel what he felt while reading it the first time, closure after finishing it, control over the story, and a more satisfying conclusion. whether if its of his own making is irrelevant. it kinda blew my mind when i realized it but it seemed pretty obvious once i processed it.

#orv spoilers #orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #kim dokja #secretive plotter #uriel orv #abyssal black flame dragon #sun wukong orv #character analysis #meta #orv meta

[mhaynoot]

[orv spoilers]

for most of orv, kdj fundamentally believes that he does not deserve love nor that his selfworth was greater than the survival of his companions.

he was forged in boyhood with a mother who hurt him for the sake of her love for him. his foundational years instrumentally shaped his perception on what is love - on what someone who loves does for the one they love, on the one-sided sacrifice of love. his mother's actions were so fundamental on his perception of love that it was forever changed after her sacrifice, becoming the core of who he was as a person. not only that but his mother's sacrifice had also probably been the last act of love he knowingly received for a long, long time until the scenarios began. kdj, a lonely existence who went through school, college and work at arms length away from others, who grew up on books and his protagonist and bore only pain from other human beings, grew up to possess a selfish expression love and the ideal of unconditional self sacrifice. for kdj, love was pain and sacrifice and the person you love will end up hating you.

and, thus, his acts of love become acts of violence towards himself and unknowingly violence towards the bonds he has created with others. his lack of selfworth and selflove, his harmful understanding of love, hurts the companion he leaves behind in sacrifice much like his mother had done to him.

which makes it all the more heartbreaking when, in the war between good and evil, he wants to live. wants to stay. wants to be saved. wants believe in the love of his companions. wants to believe in his own self worth. and so he asks yjh, hsy and jhw to rescue him, reaches his hand out to his loved ones and he finally, finally goes "please save me".

but this all breaks apart. later, when the doors to the train doors open and he is confronted with OD and all the underlying suspicions (self-hatred) he had so far are reaffirmed, everything shatters. any sense of self-love he might of had collapses at the sight of his "sin" and he is broken down into the character he believes himself to be: an unlovable and unforgivable being.

he leaves behind 49% of everything he believes the others love, the best parts of himself, the part he believes they would love only. and what are these parts? his memories together with them, not the one who read wos, not the one who hates tomatoes, not the one who survived on his own, hurt and lonely. the best parts of himself were the ones he had with the others, of their time together. (because who would love whats left in the 51%? they dont even know those parts after all.)

but he's wrong of course. kimcom loves him, loves the idiot who hates tomatoes, who could only live because he read a crappy webnovel, the one with a shitty way of speaking, and had starry eyes that sparkled. they love him. and they wrote all of that love into ORV.

which is why im going insane cause if you want a happy post-epilogue for orv, this only happens because kdj (and in turn the small % in every reader) wants to be saved, wants to be happy, knows that he (and us) deserves to be saved, to live and to be happy to be able to truly, wholeheartedly imagine and want for his story to continue. and kdj has to know that he is loved, entirely.

#i dont know what the fuck im saying #its 5am #orv #kimcom #orv meta #orv themes #love and abandonment #relearning love after a lifetime of pain and sacrifice #kim dokja #being sad over this rat bastard for the thousandth time #orv analysis

[cum-villain]

yoo joonghyuk wears all black because he is the text. he is the embodiment of the [story] "ways of survival". the [story] flows through him, because he IS the story. wos is the [story] of yoo joonghyuk, like omniscient reader's viewpoint is the [story] of kim dokja.

kim dokja wears white for the same reason han sooyoung 1963 and secretive plotter wear white, because they are outside of the story. the yoo joonghyuk in the alternate 1863 turn that died wore white because he wanted his [story] to end, and yoo joonghyuk that wore the black coat wanted the [story] to continue, to continue having text.

and he had the white astronaut outfit when he stopped being part of the [story] kim dokja wanted, he briefly became part of the white pages to give kim dokja's [story] a turn.

and the demon king of salvation has black wings because while he as a child could hide in the white pages, his soul beckons [stories] to him, he died and gained a story of love where people wanted to see him, and he gained the black wings to show that he has text, someone gave him text and words out of love for him. lee sookyung tried to love him but she couldnt give him real text, only a false [story] that in its salvation was truly agonizing. only in giving him black text, a true [story], could he escape and die. and find a new meaning and a new [story] among other discarded [stories].

#DOES THIS MAKE SENSE DOES THIS MAKE SENSE IM SHAKING LIKE A CHIHUAHUA #braincell posting #orv #orv meta #yoo joonghyuk #kim dokja #han sooyoung #orv spoilers #lee sookyung

[buqbite]

Just voicing some thoughts I had before I keep reading and discover what the deal with 49 is in the newest chapters bc. you know. This might Break me

I can't assure you that this will make any sense

THING IS I am ALWAYS thinking about 49 kdj. Because orv always makes it clear that these alternate versions of the characters are still THEM. If you were to meet your friend as someone they remember differently they wont be the same. But it's still them.

If you were to travel back in time and meet your friend, who now has less memories than they do in your time then they'd be different but, again, it's STILL them

And one thing I love is just how much we look at 1863 vs 1864 hsy for example and treat them as separates but never doubt that they are BOTH her. And the story does too

And I already adore how biased our view is. We don't have a neutral, objective view on the story, because the narration will always draw you back into it's subjective viewpoint (heh) while you read (sidenote - One thing Im doing while rereading orv is to always try to remember that kdj is an unreliable narrator and I keep catching myself forgetting about that fact and getting wrapped up in it again as I read)

And the change in perspective really shows that too. The way that we're alienated from 49 through the switch to 3rd person, just through words alone! GOD!! And the way we don't get to see how he feels, what he's thinking, what he was DOING during the 1865th turn, it's like they almost forgot he was even there

And orv was written by hsy. Her view is biased, the way she views 49, the way kdj and kimcom all viewed 49 is so clear. They talk about wanting all of him back, they say things like "If theres even 1% left in that subway we're getting him back", they grieve over the idea that they will never get 100% of him, but they have so much of him already and can't take the time to write his story

I can't remember the name of it, but there's a theory in psychology that I have to think of- Where you push someone to do something, and the more you try to get them to do it, the more they retreat, the less effective your efforts become, the more you get frustrated and push more and so on and so forth. It's something I have to think of with hsy right now. What if she doesnt come to accept that she cant have 100%? What if she pushes further and further and loses more of kdj in the process?

49 deserves to be acknowledged by the story. I want to know how it felt to be told by the novel written about YOU that you are not considered as you, just because the readers have been made to view you that way

so yeah cant wait to find out why 49 is being brought up in the side stories

#Grammar mistakes arent my problem. I become more nonsensical the more I get wound up in my brain. L #orv #orv meta #idk i might as well tag these atp #orv spoilers #orv epilogue spoilers #orv side story #orv side story spoilers #so many fucking spoilers my god #long post #txt

[hellofeternity]

ORV transcends language | how ORV is kind to readers (1.1k words)

the difficulties in analyzing text are already numerous without a language barrier, the way one word can mean 5 things and when you put it in a sentence suddenly it can mean 50 things and put that sentence in a paragraph? go further and put that paragraph in a page? construct a whole world around it, weave it into the fabric, and suddenly you are painting with words.

ORV is a daunting text, it calls and references so many mythos world wide, greek, roman, indian, chinese, japanese, it plays with meaning and intent and uses gaps in our knowledge like weapons, making us extrapolate our own meaning between the sentences, it is a tome of knowledge when it comes to histories and philosophies it feels at times like I will never understand all these things inside it.

One of the difficulties of reading a translated text is that when we analyze a text the authorial intent weighs very heavily in our minds, sure we can immerse ourselves in the world but once we start picking apart at the threads we hit a wall pretty soon when we start asking ourselves "what did the author mean by this?" however in a translated text there is an obvious gap, a game of telephone, did the translator actually capture the authors intent? or are we just reading the translators perception? sadly I don't know korean, and I cant say I have the drive to learn it, as such I know there will forever be a side of ORV that I will never be privy to - however I am bilingual and had the pleasure of reading two translated versions of ORV, an English translation and an Arabic translation, I didn't finish reading the said Arabic translation but a couple things stood out to me when I briefly did ORV is very kind to readers, following along in other stories can seem confusing at times, the pacing might be too fast and you might miss some details in a characters actions, the wording might be too vague and ah damn 20 pages later you realize you don't actually know why the characters are doing what they are doing. A big writing adage that you will see a lot is "show dont tell" and it holds merit, but ORV doesn't subscribe to it, because ORV shows AND tells. ORV built a world around readers and reading, and it makes sure that there is clarity every step of the way on what is happening, first by starting out as a homage to the isekai genre, and not deviating too much at the start, making the readers feel at home in a worldview they are familiar with, systems, leveling, videos games etc, and when it starts deviating it explains things with clarity that no matter how bad the translation is you understand the general intent, and secondly by being VERY blatant about the names of things and having a built in "story" system that is built on common story tropes and names the themes for you! take for example "unbroken faith" and "Blade of faith" both of these are two translated versions of dokja's sword. I will never know which one is closer to the original authorial intent, but I can tell you something, dokja's sword is symbolism to the faith he is wielding. (CH386 vague spoilers) or the entirety of "the great war of saints and demons" being about the concept of good and evil fighting and how kimcom aren't just above being good and evil, they are both. By using story tropes that we are familiar with to explain the complexity of situations in a simple forms you no longer have to worry about losing you readers understandings through language barriers. Every story in the world in every language knows what good vs evil is, every language has the words to explain them. and therein lies the beauty of ORV. But of course this isn't to say translations don't matter, it does speak to the strength of an original texts clarity when it accounts for the big things by making them simplified, but when we get down to the nitty gritty it starts to lose form take for example

"Tell me, you fool. If I continue to regress, will I ever get to meet you again?"

this person here has a great write up explaining the translators thoughts behind this specific line

but it has spawned a lot of debate in the English speaking fandom, as to the strength of its translation, I remember when I first saw someone claiming that its a mistranslation and "you fool" isn't part of the original, my first thought was "and so?" I do not mean to be dismissive to the original text, but I do not exist in a space where I can appreciate it in the original korean, I do not exist in a worldview where I can understand the historical implications of a lot of the characters, and even when I try to research it in English sadly the resources do not exist yet and its even more laughable to think of finding these things in Arabic. (Goryeos first sword doesn't have an English wikipedia page as a clear example) a lot of people have issues with the most popular English fantranslation of ORV - and I can understand why, being bilingual I have a lot of opinions on how a lot of things SHOULD be translated most of the time, and have done my own translation work but as I sit and think about this popular translation I cant help but just feel love for it, it might be lacking to some, it might be inaccurate at times to others, but its just enough for me to paint the gaps in the text with my perceptions, the words used are tied to my affections the Arabic translation of ORV is clunky, it is messy, it doesn't have as much grace as the English translation of ORV does, the words barely string together cohesively, but it has enough clarity, enough intent, and enough love for its readers, to catch their hearts, their attention and their energy

and so I want this to be the first post on this blog because, the author is dead here, not because I buried them, but because the tower of babel fell down a long time ago, and all we have is rubble and each other. a lot of the analysis on this blog will try to be respectful to the korean original wherever it can, however my words will be coming from an anglosphere perspective, and build on other English reader's perceptions of a text translation that a decent amount of people don't think is adequate, but just like ORV is kind to us, we can be kind back, I will quote the most popular version because its what connects us together, and while the authors intent might be lost, we can share our own meanings with each other, and build our own intent from the rubble.

#orv meta #orv #orv analysis #r1864 #a big wall of text for me to go lol orv is queer and yjh is trans coded #but this is tumblr so everyone knows that already #also I still don't actually know what naming convention is correct I've seen many discussions about this #I just go with what is most popular for ease of understanding and ease of reading #also i find the naming thing very funny in english and latin letters because there isnt nearly this much drama about it in the arabic scrip #I just assume its like any other language that doesnt use latin and we are just trying to break english to sound out letters they dont have #i do like how dokjas name sounds like its splitting in the middle in the correct pronunciation 'dok-ja' adds to his duality #and i am sad that gets lost in the latin script sounding

[righteousenjoymentofthunder]

how come only yoo joonghyuk is called a regressor and not anna croft? anna croft gets her title of prophet through her transporting her memories to her younger/'future' self through the world lines. in essense, this is what yoo joonghyuk does when he regresses. he comes to in a new world line and inhabits his younger-selfs body. so why? i had this question for a while and then i finished the novel and i was like ohhhhhhhh thats why.

you dont have to regress to a be a regressor. to be a regressor, you live in the past, trying to escape the very clutches of your own memories. this is what yoo joonghyuk does- he goes through the scenarios, collecting companions from a time long passed and that only he remembers. he uses his memories to go through scenarios, but eventually this method crushes him because of all the people he's lost and the lives that are still going on but they aren't the ones that he's lost. that's why regression depression hits him so hard, because he is so actively aware of what he's lost and has gone through. from a battle field in the 94th scenario to the very beginning in the train once again. in contrast, anna croft receives everything in a dream. its less real to her, the dreams are a choice that she's made to give forward. and then she chooses to stop giving the dreams forward, because like yoo joonghyuk, she has decided that this turn will be the last. and yet, she is still not a regressor.

#'hello? this is your mother' sound on tiktok but for yjh + the main regression gang #this is a rant if anything #orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #orv meta #yoo joonghyuk #anna croft #meta #posts