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#s5 speculations
bonearenaofmyskull · 4 months
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This will be my one and only post on the subject of post-s3 canon-compliant Hannigram...
...unless ofc the show gets renewed, which, at this point--it won't, lbr. Martha de Laurentiis was the show's champion and navigator of the rights issues, and she has literally died. If anyone else is championing it, I don't know about it. Maybe something can come through eventually as the new company leadership gets shit figured out, idk. But I'm not holding my breath.
That's the key point here which most of these asks don't seem to recognize: they want me to give an opinion on the state of the relationship, and whether or not Hannibal and Will can be together for a long term and maintain contentment in their relationship with each other: the Happy Ever After Question. But what these asks are most notably NOT doing--even though the askers always frame it as if they are--is asking me about the kind of storytelling would be likely in a continuation of the show: the Plot? What Plot? question. They want to have their plot cake and happily eat it ever after too. And it just doesn't work that way.
These are really very, very different questions. And what would happen if the show actually did come back has as much to do with what would have to happen to resurrect the show out of rights oblivion and then negotiate endless contracts AND how the creatives own lives and circumstances may have changed them and their points of view over the years, as well as the years themselves.
And because the show is very likely never coming back it's really a moot point now. Fantasize however you want. Write fic however you want. It's your damn story now, not the creatives. So in answer to the first, Happy Ever After Question, yeah, sure, why the fuck not. Let Hannigram have forever. But wait--you like plot with your porn? Then by all means give them some conflict. Tear them from the seams, their skin, their bones. Does that make you happy now?
But stop pulling down other people who are doing it in a different way than you're doing it, even if you can't understand it. Yeah, you know who you are....
As for the ~cANoN~ question, let's also be real for a second. If the show were renewed TODAY, it will have been more than a decade between seasons three and four, and Bryan Fuller has been pretty clear that Hannibal and Will are together during that time. So CAN they stay together for a period of years? Yeah, sure, why the fuck not. Obviously they HAVE.
But also--if the show were to come back, would they be destined for angsty shit and conflict and, yanno, PLOT? Again, obviously. It's a ridiculous notion that the show would continue without it. Flip side of that, though, is the equally ridiculous notion that seems to be floating around that if they can't be Disney princesses in their happily-ever-after together, then they can't be together at all, or at least, not for long. That's also absurd.
So let's touch base with what we know, and not what we each individually prefer.
Let's pretend--perhaps ambitiously--for a minute that if the show did ever come back it would be following the plan that we were left off with. It would stretch into 3 more seasons, with Cuban, Korean, and Cajun dishes iirc for episode titles. Bryan Fuller was pretty clear that season four would dive into an untapped portion of the books, revisit season one in a "really interesting way," and be pitched as Angel Heart meets Inception. Will might achieve happiness but not till the ending of the whole thing. That's what we know. Sorry I can't cite any of this; I haven't looked up a Hannibal article in half a decade.
So, leaving aside specifics and just getting to the question at hand, what we do know from season 1 is that Hannibal and Will were together. So, logically, they're probably together in any theoretical season 4. And OF COURSE they would be--they just spent all of S3 apart. You gotta vary this shit up. And they have to have internal and external conflicts, because writing 101. And the internal conflicts are meaningless--as would be all the rest of the preceding show--unless they're deeply and passionately invested in and love each other. That was the whole frickin' point of S3.
I don't honestly even understand how any of this is a question or a debate. Why are y'all even arguing in this the year of our lord almost 2024, and making me grumpy by sending me endless asks about stuff that's been answered for years and years. Why did I have to read with my OWN TWO EYES that someone who joined the fandom in 2016 (!!!) is so #FandomOld that people are afraid to argue with them????
...
So, y'all, this is all I'm willing to say about a potential continuation and ending of the show:
In a simple sense, the pattern the show was setting up is S1 & S4 Hannigram is together and solving crimes (at least in some weird Angel Heart way), S2 & S5 is semi-together, semi-apart Baltimore State Hospital for the Criminally Insane thing (with other stuff), and S3 & S6 on-the-run culminating in Something Big (probably at least partially apart). That doesn't mean this is the way the show would go, but it'd be very easy to write Clarice or an expy coming into the story to chase them down and end up mentored by them (either one or both) with this format.
As for the very final ending of the whole thing, the ending *I* would write may not be the same as what Bryan Fuller would write, but to me it seems both obvious where the show should go and that it would be completely and utterly satisfying to shippers and non-shippers alike. And I have run my theoretical ending by devout Hannigram shippers, and it met their approval. So if I can come up with something that both works for them and works for my sense of completionism in storytelling, then I'm sure Bryan Fuller could. He's way more practiced than me.
I have consistently said that I do not relate to the notion that it'd be better to have them together in one's imagination than it would be to actually see Mads and Hugh acting together in the ACTUAL SHOW, regardless of how that ends. Because here's the thing: my imagination is boundless and endless, and I can get an unlimited amount of Hannigram doing whatever the fuck I please whenever the fuck I please. More show, on the other hand, is rare as hen's teeth. I would take that miracle if I could get it.
The End.
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inevitably-johnlocked · 4 months
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Hello. Not a rec ask, I was just thinking, even though there probably won't be s5 of Sherlock, if you were a writer how would you take care of Mrs Hudson absence? I mean, can't imagine anyone but Una playing her. What would be the scene to show that she's not around anymore? I have a couple ideas myself but would love to read how you'd deal with this. Thanks! (Also I love what you're doing here, you are the Queen of fic recs!)
Hey Nonny!
Sorry for holding off on this one so long, I just honestly got lazy, LOL.
This is a good question, honestly. Thing for me, though is that I feel Una is irreplaceable as our Mrs. Hudson, and just the idea of just... putting a new actor in her place is honestly horrifying to me.
The way I think they should address it, is along the same lines as the way Marvel addressed Chadwick's sad passing: not casting someone else in the role, and honour her in some way. OBVIOUSLY not to the same scale as Black Panther, but just kind of a small memoriam scene where they all visit her grave together, and allow the camera to linger on it. Somehow weave in that she left 221B to Sherlock in her will, because she knew he would never want to leave, which then opens up possibilities for what can be done with 221B as a "character", in a sense. Like do they become landlords, or is the whole place their home now, basically just turning each flat into maybe Rosie and John's room, a Lab for Sherlock in the basement, spare rooms for guests, maybe one is an AirBnB to bring in some additional income. I dunno.
I PERSONALLY don't think they should replace Hudders in ANY sense, including making someone else the landlady. I genuinely think they should go the "it's Sherlock's in her will" route, or Mycroft purchases the place if there's additional mortgage still on it, but given S4 wants us to believe Hudders can afford a sports car, I imagine that she owns the place.
And for the record, I don't think it was ever stated in-show if she had family outside of her sister and her ex, so like no sons-or-daughters to give the home to. But even if she did, I GENUINELY don't see her leaving the place to ANYONE other than Sherlock.
BUT YES, anyway, that's how I'd like the show to deal with it. Respectfully, and beautifully. Unlike how they dealt with S4 🙃
(and if you're still here Nonny, thank you for your kind words. Sorry again for taking so long to reply. Genuinely just lazy)
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devoursjohnlock · 2 years
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Eurus... I still don't know what she means (cough same with Rosie cough)
An evil "sister". Could John actually talk about Mary working with Moriarty? Like, it's never twins but also kinda is? I hope Mary is not actually M's sister, but I wonder if Sherlock's mistake in ASIP re John's sibling is relevant. It must be, right? I read that some people believe Janine is M's sister. Hmmm. Can they announced S5 already? I need answers!
To be perfectly honest, I don't think they'll come back to Eurus as a character; I think she's served her purpose and that they'll continue on, probably without referencing her at all. Similarly, I don't think we'll hear from Janine again.
I do expect Moriarty and Donovan to return in S5. Maybe Mary. Maybe Irene.
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fan-of-chaos · 9 months
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Okay, okay, so. Let me get this straight.
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"Giant Aaravos picking up what seems to be human sized Viren"
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"Aaravos telling the sunfire elf's queen that he swallowed her human-sized grandmother"
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"Giant ribcage of something, with Aaravos prison orb thing laying in the place that seems close to a place a heart would be"
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"Aaravos orb prison being much, much, smaller on the outside than inside" Am I reading all the clues wrong or is the show trying to tell us that Aaravos was a giant???
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thecelestialsyzygy · 2 months
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If we really get the one bed trope with byler… THE WRITERS ARE SICK AND FUCKING TWISTED (this is everything I wanted)
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cirrus-grey · 1 year
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Maybe he wasn't. But-
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maybe
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Jon
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was.
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taeiris · 24 days
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do you guys ever think abt how in st4 they introduced the concept of nina and blocked out memories to protect someone from trauma… and now we know they’re filming unseen scenes from will in the UD… wouldn’t it be RLLY cool if el brought nina up, and idk?? like?? meditated with will to access his memories in search of the key to defeat vecna? maybe from something that happened in the UD that he blocked out? would high-key be a bomb ass scene and so cool for some willel bonding🤞
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willbyerssecretlover · 6 months
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OMG????
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http-byler · 7 months
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☆ WE HAVE TO KILL HIM ☆
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omartinyosef · 25 days
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ST5 POTENTIAL SPOILERS!!!
GUYS I FOUND THIS ON REDDIT AND ACTUALLY IT'S QUITE INTERESTING
ST5 Leaks/Fleaks
Gen Plot
Season picks up briefly where we left off in 1986 before jumping into either late 1987 or early 1988. The season is contained entirely in apocalyptic Hawkins. Things with the government are shaky. Owens doesn't appear in the beginning of the season and it's unclear if he's returning, but Ellen Stinson is the new Owens. Hawkins is like a combination of the UD and Kamchatka.
Labyrinths/Mazes being important to both the supernatural plot and the interpersonal relationships. They're inherently linked.
Two songs to be featured are 'Listen to Your Heart' and 'Alone,' both of which were apparently foreshadowed in a previous conversation between Hopper and Joyce, similar to how Hopper's "I'm the puppet, you're the master" to Joyce in S3 basically foreshadowed Eddie's 'Master of Puppets' in S4.
S1 and 2 scenes being referenced are "Nancy and Mike's conversation in the bathtub" and "Hopper + Lando Calrissian"
Lots of importance in COLOR CODING and blocking from the final shot of S4, and a good chunk is told in the costuming—like passing the torch from one character to another as their arcs overlap. For example, Hopper and Will share the "am I the curse and therefore putting my loved ones at risk by being near them?" sentiment for S5, therefore their wardrobe in the final shot of S4 is similar. Joyce/Jonathan and Nancy/Mike's costuming also similar for the same reason, whereas Eleven stands out because she's the first one coming into her own this season. The white for her represents shedding of false skins.
Character duos this season will be primarily dressed in colors of blue/green and yellow/red.
There's lots of symbolism and foreshadowing for every character in S5 from the moment Will touches his neck in the last sequence of S4.
S4 focused on themes of lies and miscommunication, and everyone is going to have to work through these lies before they can defeat Vecna.
Murray and Argyle are both back. Dimitri and Yuri don't seem to be in the beginning of the season.
One thing left unresolved with the Russian plot. Something important will happen involving the machine and the green liquid from the Starcourt bunker. Reference of Dustin vowing to die with Steve when they initially discovered it.
Hopper, Joyce, Mike, Will, and El had to be away from Hawkins, otherwise Vecna wouldn't have won.
An important death that they're nervous about given the reception to Eddie (not Joyce or Jonathan—see details below).
Eleven
We'll see her unlike we've seen her before. A badass who doesn't take shit from anyone. Not a Monster, not a Hero, Jane. Think: adult El could be headed for a Charles Xavier type role.
Erica, Lucas, and El will share scenes together.
El has significant blocking and development with many characters this season.
Max, Eleven & Max
The "kaleidoscope of colors" from a script the writers posted makes a feature in both the scene where young El remembers her mother's love in order to defeat Henry in the lab, as well as the scene where El revives Max. This is significant because it's the first time we see El using her powers on someone in a non-violent way.
El was able to revive Max because of she, herself, being revived in the bunker by Brenner and Co. It's a show, don't tell moment from the writers.
Max getting Vecna'd was foreshadowed in the beginning of 2x01.
Will, Henry/Vecna, The UD
Filming was supposed to commence mid-June, but Noah and Jamie were set to begin in May due to more complicated costuming. Will is going to require heavy prosthetics at some point.
Will's character design is blocked in three stages. The more the UD bleeds into Hawkins, the more connected to it he feels. The gates being open will physically influence him, especially when he's not as mentally strong.
He's kind of like "the card up Vecna's sleeve."
It appears they want to confuse the audience about Will.
Will wrestling with his own morality
Henry/Will mirrors. Will will sympathize with Henry because, unlike El, he knows how and what Henry thinks, and he can feel him.
Vecna and Will are very similar, but the difference is Will is made stronger by love not hate. They will play into that duality.
Vecna was nerfed in S4 compared to how we see him in S5. He'll be much stronger.
At the beginning, he'll be taking a hiatus while he plans how to divide and conquer now that everyone's back together in Hawkins.
Soteria will be the key to saving Will. If they want Will to be untraceable to Henry, they'll have to insert it into his neck and it'll be painful. Vecna not having access to Will fucks up his ability to leave the UD.
Byler/Mileven Triangle
Apparently, it's complicated and up in the air as of now.
Mike dealing with guilt this season. He feels guilty/responsibility for El. He feels stuck in a loop that keeps him from a truth he's scared to face.
Will and Mike to spend a good chunk of the season together based on character designs and blocking.
Will telling El that Mike won't like being lied to comes back with the painting. During a pre-time jump scene in 5x01, while everyone's together plotting how to defeat Vecna and brainstorming how to save Max, Mike brings up the painting El commissioned for a D&D analogy. Will has to pull Mike aside and confess he lied about El commissioning the painting. Mike gets angry, because he doesn't know about Will's feelings and feels embarrassed that Will thought he was that pathetic he needed to be given a pep talk. Their own version of a "fight you can't come back from." Immediately after their fight, we get the time skip.
Mike's character motivations are unclear and seem to be kept under wraps. After the time jump, he and El won't be talking as much because he's keeping the details about Will's painting from her. She's gonna ask what's wrong between him and Will, and he lies/is very vague.
Joyce, Hopper, Jopper
Joyce feels immense guilt/responsible over Bob's death since she's the one that asked him to help in S2, which is why she pushed Hopper away at first.
Hopper has a secret from S1 that was never addressed, and it comes back to haunt him.
Joyce sustains an injury in S5 that is reminiscent of the way someone was injured in S3, but it isn't critical and she'll be okay.
Jopper are the most established couple after the time jump. Lots of bickering still, but Hopper trusts Joyce more than he ever has.
Jonathan, Nancy, Jancy
So far, does not seem like a breakup is happening.
Jonathan's still lying about the college letter and distant because of it, and Nancy thinks he's not as into the relationship and that there might be someone else. She confronts him, which leads to a talk. She's touched by the lengths he would go to try and protect her and any of their future children even from himself.
A moment where we're led to believe Jonathan dies but doesn't, like Hopper in S3.
Hopper-Byers Family
These five characters slowly unraveling their arcs together and have always been closely linked. Their perfect endings are together.
We see the family combining, especially in relation to El.
Joyce gets to witness Hopper being paternal and tender towards the boys.
Scenes with Joyce, Jonathan, and Will
Hopper being back lifts a weight off Jonathan's shoulders.
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So, now time to shine.
''(...) sentiment for S5, therefore their wardrobe in the final shot of S4 is similar. Joyce/Jonathan and Nancy/Mike's costuming also similar for the same reason, (...)''
Okay. How did we see Nancy in S4? Confused. Confused with the love triangle between Jonathan, her and Steve. Jonathan is her actual boyfriend. And Steve is her posible love interest again.
So, putting this in byler language: Nancy = Mike Jonathan = Eleven Will = Steve
If Mike's and Nancy's character's clothing is important at this point of the time line and that means they feel similar feelings, this could mean that byler has a chance. BUT then we read this: ''(...) He (Mike) feels stuck in a loop that keeps him from a truth he's scared to face.'' And
''Mike's character motivations are unclear and seem to be kept under wraps.''
THIS LITERALLY MEANS BYLER. FOR REAL. Like byler could be endgame. Also, remember Eleven's injury in S3? Do you remember the leak of a shoe covered in blood?
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It's Joyce. ALSO YOU CAN READ THAT WE'LL HAVE SCENES BEFORE THE TIME JUMP. And here it comes. Look at this freaking hair:
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Does this look more like this
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or this?
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The season 4 bowl cut right? So maybe this is right in some part? I dont know. But that could make sense why Will is wearing Mike's pants, because his clothes were in California by that moment. But i really do think that the pic that was leaked a few days ago is before the time jump.
Im so late with this info haha :) but i kinda think some things here make sense. Even if this is too well explained to be a leak.
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bylersbear01 · 20 days
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I think Jonathan and Will are going to stay at the Wheelers in s5 because of these photos.
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There are 7 seats at the table and the Wheeler family only consists of five people. In s2 there were only 5 chairs at the table.
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Now there are 6 chairs from the same set because chairs normally chairs come in a set of 6. So the Wheelers took the extra chair out for someone, but then they needed one more chair for someone else and since the chairs only come in a set of six they had to get an extra chair that was different from the rest. So my point is the two extra chairs are most likely for Will and Jonathan which means they will be staying at the Wheelers in s5.
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HI STEPH!!!! Hope your break is nice and relaxing!
So, I just watched the first episode of Season 4 with my family, and the characterization just feels really off. Like, John cheating could maybe make some sense if you twisted it the right way, but him yelling at Sherlock?? Absolutely uncalled for.
Also, Mary was also out of character? Like she was almost too in love with John?
This really has no point; I just needed to talk to someone about it, and you’re my go-to for anything Johnlock :)
Anyway, many hugs and love!!!!!!!
Hey Lovely!
UGGGGHHHH TELL ME ABOUT IT. S4 is SO fucky and it's SO frustrating. Nothing about it feels right, and it constantly feels like Mofftiss gave no shits about it anymore. I feel bad for literally almost everyone else because they all did the best with what they had to work with, but S4 just feels like Mofftiss was annoyed the fandom "figured out" the endgame and instead went with non-sensical twists that were dumb. It shouldn't have happened at all.
They ruined Mary who was being built up to be a kickass villain. They ruined the budding relationship between Molly and Lestrade. On that same note, they made Lestrade this weird dumb-fuck and Molly reverted back to ASiP Molly. They dumbified John and Mycroft (why Gatiss fucked up his own character is beyond me). They introduced a stupid baby that was only there for filler. They introduced a weird magical unknown sister. They made Sherlock stupid as fuck, and Mary suddenly more clever than everyone else. Every actor is half-assing the script because they know it's shit. The whole season has a tonne of inconsistencies and fuckery.
I have my own VERY salty theories about what really was going on in real life, but I'll keep that to myself... the TINHAT part of me believes it was intentional given the VERY HARD TO MISS fourth wall breaks and in turn I believe it's actually an Unreliable Narrator situation, and it's John's Alibi that John or Sherlock wrote on their blog is actually what we're watching and not the true events of the show. Especially given how everyone pretends John doesn't have a blog in T6T, which is really bizarre, it FEELS very fake.
Check out my "something's fucky" tag for some more interesting shit happening in S4. But yeah, Just... S4 should have been great. The only way it could redeem itself at this point is if S5 (if it ever happens) is what most of us are hoping it to be: confirming S4 was fake, and S5 is really what happened during the events of S4 (the "Twin Series Theory").
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byler-alarmist · 10 days
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I could see Mike doing his own version of the van scene/Will's painting confession in S5 where, because he is a writer, he tells a little story but it's clear to us and Will that the characters are stand-ins for their own relationship and reveals his feelings for Will.
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sinclairstarz · 1 month
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ST5 ENDING (REAL!! SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!)
will: youre never going to win, vecna!! I will defeat you, once and for all…
vecna: HA HA HA! You and what army..? 😈
*distant yelling getting louder, the ground shaking a little*
will:.. this army.
*the rest of the gang rides in on demodogs, which dustin has befriended and trained, in slomo. while theyre doing the cool slomo walk towards the camera, robin trips on a vine*
robin: sorry!!
vecna: o_o
*the party stands strong by will’s side*
lucas *cracking his knuckles*: okay, vecna… we can do this the easy way… or the hard way.
*the demodogs growl angrily*
vecna: heheh… nice… puppy….
*big final battle scene*
vecna, defeated: but.. but you’re just a group of kids..
mike: that may be, but we’re stronger, because we have something you’ll never have.. the power of true friendship.
*they all exchange happy smiles*
robin, tearing up! aw i love you guys.. so much!! *blows her nose in steve’s shirt*
nancy: maybe… the real light was the friends we’ve made along the way.
el: that’s right. were a team.. a party.
steve: UMMMM did I hear PARTY?
robin: i think i feel a song coming on… hit it, dustin!!
*cuts to a big party in the woods, with everyone dancing. Party Rock Anthem starts playing over the scene. murray is dancing with karen and there are demo-creatures all dancing with the party.*
will: omg!! this is my jam!! PARTY ROCKERS IN THE HOUSE TONIGHT
mike: its actually party rock IS…
will:…
*tender emotional music playing*
*ted approaches dustin, who stops dancing.*
dustin: ted.
ted: dustin.. i’d like to apologize. can you ever forgive me?
dustin, smiling:.. i already have, man. now lets party!
*vecna is sitting in a chair in the corner with his arms crossed, scowling.*
will: aw, get in here!
vecna: absolutely not.
will: … then why is your foot tapping to the rhythm?
vecna: it isn’t.
will: friends dont lie!
vecna: …drats.
*will pulls vecna’s arm and vecna starts dancing with them. steve watched then turns to look at the camera.*
stve, shrugging with a smile: well. we’ve all seen stranger things.
*fade to black*
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eliza1911o1 · 10 months
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WTF THIS IS LITERALLY THE CUTEST THING I’VE EVER SEEN
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So disregarding plot and character stuff I just really want Nandor and Guillermo to get together so I can see Harvey Guillén and Kayvan Novak show off their awesome chemistry and be cute together
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thecelestialsyzygy · 3 months
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I don’t wish bullying on anyone, but I’m so excited to see Mike Wheeler get bullied and stand up for him and his boyfriend LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO
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