#some people might disagree to my assumption about the inner voice being that of someone we know

[writerfae]

Character Study - Inner voices

I already talked about my oc’s voices (or rather their manner of speaking) so today I wanna talk about their inner voices, so practically that little voice in your head that we all have ^^

Okay so before I start I’ll have you know that my theory here is that the voice in our head often sounds similar to someone we know (i know it’s the case for me) so I always base their inner voice on certain person(s), hope that makes sense.

Henry has an inner voice that sounds a lot like his mother. His mom had the biggest influence on his life because she taught him all she knew and he was very close to her. That’s why whenever he finds himself in situations where he doesn’t know what to do or feels unsure, there’s always this calm and gentle voice to reassure him and offer advice and it sounds exactly the way he remembers his mother. When hunting though, it’s Milan’s voice in his head, because he taught him all Henry knows. And sometimes, it’s Callan.

Aiden’s inner voice sounds like Henry. He’s his voice of reason, the one scolding him and the one spending him comfort. Aiden also often asks himself what Henry would do. The reason that Henry is the one coining his inner voice the most and not one of his parents is that in the later, important years of his childhood, it’s mostly been Henry taking care of him, so he influenced him a lot, teaching him a lot of the things he knows today. So of course he’s Aiden’s inner advisor.

Talon has a very critical inner voice. It sounds an awful lot like his father’s voice. While in Aiden’s and Henry’s case their inner voice is one of support, Talon’s is often one of criticism. It’s a sceptic in many situations and pretty cautious too. He has also a kinda sarcastic inner voice, sorta to even out the negative voice in his head. With more and more people in his life that support him being himself though, there’s an other, kinder voice slowly but steadily drowning out the voice of his father

Maya’s inner voice is too influenced by her mother. Her mother’s voice gives her good advice, like her mother did while she was still alive. But to be honest, most of the time it’s just Maya’s own voice? She talks to herself a lot in her head. Sometimes anxiety speaks through her, too. She worries a lot. But she can also calm herself down most of the time (with little help from friends and with her inner voice). I think Maya’s inner voice is often her reassuring herself/ telling herself what to do because she spent many years taking care of herself after her mother died and before the Hawks took her in.

Halea doesn’t have one specific inner voice, because her thoughts tend to jump around a lot. It’s more like she has millions of voices in her head and many of them talk at the same time. So it’s hard to pinpoint who they sounds like. But all of them (or most) are positive and full of energy and support. She kind of lacks a voice of reason though, haha. Also among my characters, I think she’s the (probably only) one who lets her inner voice out sometimes, voicing her thoughts aloud.

Callan’s inner voice is mainly influenced by three important people in his life: his father, Amalie and Henry. In other words, he has a full on support team of voices in his head. It depends on the situation which part of his inner voice is talking. His father is the voice in his head when it comes to king related fears and worries, but also in situations where he wished his father was with him. Amalie is that motherly part of his inner voice, the one reminding him of his manners and offering advice or a warm word. And then there’s Henry who’s his supporting voice and the one comforting him. Sometimes other people’s voices sneak their way in his head, but these three influence him most.

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#writer speaks #writeblr #wip: the knights of the alder #writing #my writing #my characters #character study #inner voices #fun fact I already expressed Callan’s and Aiden’s inner voice before #like when I wrote ‘if his brother were here he’d say…’ #or fir Callan during his coronation when he recalled Henry’s reassuring words from earlier #some people might disagree to my assumption about the inner voice being that of someone we know #and for others it’s old news #but either way it’s something I personally have often thought about before #because my inner voice for example is my mom #funnily enough it is both the criticizing voice and the one reminding me of stuff #but let’s not get too deep into that

[xeno-aligned]

copy & pasted under the read more in order to have a local copy.

A Brief His and Herstory of Butch And Femme

BY: JEM ZERO 16 DEC 2017

When America’s LGBTQ+ folk started coming out of the closet in the 1950s, the underground scene was dominated by working class people who had less to lose if they were outed. Butch/femme presentation arose as a way for lesbians to identify each other, also serving as a security measure when undercover cops tried to infiltrate the local scenes. Butch women exhibited dapper and dandy aesthetics, and came to be known for being aggressive because they took protective roles during raids and other examples of homophobic violence. The image of the butch lesbian became a negative stereotypes for lesbians as a whole, leaving out femme lesbians, who are (pretty insultingly) considered undetectable as lesbians due to their feminine presentation.

In modern times there’s less need for strict adherence to these roles; instead, they become heritage. A great deal of political rebellion is wrapped up in each individual aesthetic. Butch obviously involves rejecting classically feminine gender expectations, while femme fights against their derogatory connotations.

But while butch/femme has been a part of lesbian culture, these terms and identities are not exclusive to queer women. Many others in the LGBTQ community utilize these signifiers for themselves, including “butch queen” or “femme daddy.” Butch and femme have different meanings within queer subcultures, and it’s important to understand the reasons they were created and established.

The Etymology

The term “lesbian” derives from the island on which Sappho lived—if you didn’t already guess, she was a poet who wrote extensively about lady-lovin’. Before Lesbos lent its name to lesbians, the 1880s described attraction between women as Sapphism. In 1925, “lesbian” was officially recorded as the word for a female sodomite. (Ick.) Ten years before that, “bisexual” was defined as "attraction to both sexes."

In upcoming decades, Sapphic women would start tearing down the shrouds that obscured the lives of queer women for much of recorded history. Come the ‘40s and ‘50s, butch and femme were coined, putting names to the visual and behavioral expression that could be seen in pictures as early as 1903. So, yeah—Western Sapphic women popularized these terms, but the conversation doesn’t end there, nor did it start there.

Before femme emerged as its own entity, multiple etymological predecessors were used to describe gender nonconforming people. Femminiello was a non-derogatory Italian term that referred to a feminine person who was assigned male—this could be a trans woman, an effeminate gay man, or the general queering of binarist norms. En femme derives from French, and was used to describe cross-dressers.

Butch, first used in 1902 to mean "tough youth," has less recorded history. Considering how “fem” derivatives were popularized for assigned male folks, one might attribute this inequality to the holes in history where gender-defying assigned female folks ought to be.

The first time these concepts were used to specifically indicate women was the emergence of Sapphic visibility in twentieth century. This is the ground upon which Lesbian Exclusivism builds its tower, and the historical and scientific erasure of bisexual women is where it crumbles. Seriously, did we forget that was a thing?

The assumption that any woman who defies gender norms is automatically a lesbian relies on the perpetuation of misogynist, patriarchal stereotypes against bisexual women. A bisexual woman is just as likely to suffer in a marriage with a man, or else be mocked as an unlovable spinster. A woman who might potentially enjoy a man is not precluded from nonconformist gender expression. Many famous gender nonconforming women were bisexual—La Maupin (Julie d'Aubigny), for example.

Most records describing sexual and romantic attraction between women were written by men, and uphold male biases. What happens, then, when a woman is not as openly lascivious as the ones too undeniably bisexual to silence? Historically, if text or art depicts something the dominant culture at the time disagrees with, the evidence is destroyed. Without voices of the Sapphists themselves, it’s impossible to definitively draw a line between lesbians and bisexuals within Sapphic history.

Beyond White Identities

Another massive hole in the Lesbian Exclusivist’s defenses lies in the creeping plague that is the Mainstream White Gay; it lurks insidiously, hauling along the mangled tatters of culture that was stolen from Queer and Trans People of Colour (QTPOC). In many documents, examples provided of Sapphic intimacy are almost always offered from the perspective of white cis women, leaving huge gaps where women of color, whether trans or cis, and nonbinary people were concerned. This is the case despite the fact that some of the themes we still celebrate as integral to queer culture were developed by Black and Latinx LGBTQ+ folk during the Harlem Renaissance, which spanned approximately from 1920 to 1935.

A question I can’t help but ask is: Where do queer Black, Indigenous, and other People of Color fit into the primarily white butch/femme narrative? Does it mean anything that the crackdown on Black queer folk seemed to coincide with the time period when mainstream lesbianism adopted butch and femme as identifiers?

Similar concepts to butch/femme exist throughout the modern Sapphic scene. Black women often identify as WLW (Women-Loving-Women), and use terms like “stud” and “aggressive femme.” Some Asian queer women use “tomboy” instead of butch. Derivatives and subcategories abound, sometimes intersecting with asexual and trans identities. “Stone butch” for dominant lesbians who don’t want to receive sexual stimulation; “hard femme” as a gender-inclusive, fat-positive, QTPOC-dominated political aesthetic; “futch” for the in-betweenies who embody both butch and femme vibes. These all center women and nonbinary Sapphics, but there’s still more.

Paris is Burning, a documentary filmed about New York City ball culture in the 1980s, describes butch queens among the colourful range of identities prevalent in that haven of QTPOC queerness. Despite having a traditionally masculine physique, the gay male butch queen did not stick to gender expectations from straight society or gay culture. Instead, he expertly twisted up his manly features with women’s clothing and accessories, creating a persona that was neither explicitly masculine nor feminine.

Butch Queens Up in Pumps, a book by Marlon M. Bailey, expounds upon their presence within inner city Detroit’s Ballroom scene, its cover featuring a muscular gay man in a business casual shirt paired with high heels. Despite this nuance, butch remains statically defined as a masculine queer woman, leaving men of color out of the conversation.

For many QTPOC, especially those who transcend binary gender roles, embracing the spirit of butch and femme is inextricable with their racial identity. Many dark-skinned people are negatively portrayed as aggressive and hypermasculine, which makes it critical to celebrate the radical softness that can accompany femme expressions. Similarly, the intrinsic queerness of butch allows some nonbinary people to embrace the values and aesthetics that make them feel empowered without identifying themselves as men.

Butch, Femme, and Gender

It’s pretty clear to me that the voices leading the Lesbian Exclusive argument consistently fail to account for where butch and femme have always, in some form, represented diverse gender expression for all identities.

‘Butch’ and ‘femme’ began to die out in the 1970s when Second Wave Feminism and Lesbian Separatism came together to form a beautiful baby, whom they named “Gender Is Dead.” White, middle class cis women wrestled working class QTWOC out of the limelight, claiming that masculine gender expression was a perversion of lesbian identity. The assassination attempt was largely unsuccessful, however: use of these identifiers surged back to life in the ‘80s and ‘90s, now popularized outside of class and race barriers.

Looking at all this put together, I have to say that it’s a mystery to me why so many lesbians, primarily white, believe that their history should take precedence over… everyone else that makes up the spectrum of LGBTQ+ experiences, even bi/pan Sapphics in same-gender relationships. If someone truly believes that owning butch/femme is more important than uniting and protecting all members of the Sapphic community from the horrors of homophobic and gendered oppression, maybe they’re the one who shouldn’t be invited to the party.

As a nonbinary lesbian, I have experienced my share of time on the flogging-block. I empathize strongly with the queer folks being told that these cherished identities are not theirs to claim. Faced with this brutal, unnecessary battle, I value unity above all else. There’s no reason for poor trans women, nonbinary Black femmes, bisexual Asian toms, gay Latino drag queens, or any other marginalized and hurting person to be left out of the dialogue that is butch and femme, with all its wonderful deconstructions of mainstream heteronormative culture.

It is my Christmas wish that the Lesbian Exclusivist Tower is torn down before we open the new chapter in history that is 2018. Out of everything the LGBTQ+ community has to worry about already, petty infighting shouldn’t be entertained—especially when its historical foundation is so flimsy. Queering gender norms has always been the heart of butch/femme expression, and that belongs to all of us.

#lesbian #butch #femme #bi- #queer history #fenpost #wlw #sapphic #also #nlw #cause the author is a nb lesbian

[lcydragneel]

for the dirty jenga can you do nalu and number 2 please!

Rating: T (but maybe k+)

Word Count: 1,688

dirty jenga prompt list

A/N: Sorry it took literally months, but I did put a lot of effort into it once the inspiration hit :) Forewarning…I don’t understand tenses well so constructive criticism is always welcomed

Dirty Jenga Prompt #2- Kiss for 60 Seconds

  “What do you mean your first kiss was Gray!?” A group of guildmates shouted at the drunken brunette seated atop one of the tables. She chugged back a mug with a flushed face, before smirking at her friends in front of her devilishly.

  “Yep, we were teens and I got bored. We lost our lip virginities to each other,” Cana answered with a chuckle and a wink towards to ice mage who scoffed in return.

  For some reason, during the afternoon at the fairy tail guild somehow the topic of kissing was brought up causing some embarrassing stories to be spilled. However, at the card mage’s comment a certain bluenette seemed to seethe with envy since she hadn’t been the lucky one.

  “It was just a kiss when we were little, it was nothing, Juvia,” He spoke with a sigh, crossing his right leg over his body slightly hiding his already stripped body. His comment seemed to calm the woman when he leaned back and put his muscular arm around her shoulders, pulling her small figure against his.

  “I don’t understand why first kisses are all that important,” the rosy haired dragon slayer said nonchalantly across the table. He had a listless glance as he added a comment in the group’s conversation.

  The blonde girl sitting beside him perked an eyebrow up in confusion, wondering how he could be so inconsiderate to the magic of a first kiss. It was always her fantasy to have a special first moment like she’d always hoped for, and he was there dismissing the idea of her dreams entirely.

  “What do you mean, Natsu? First kisses are supposed to be special, and romantic. Haven’t you already had yours with Lisanna?” Lucy asked with a sparkle in her eyes, before returning to a relaxed look upon inquiring about their friend.

  The pinkette stared at her with an emotionless expression before it changed to confusion upon processing his partner’s words. He and the blue exceed shared a look that seemed like he thought Lucy’s comment was hilarious.

  “Where’d you hear that?” I don’t remember kissing anyone before.” He replied leaning back and crossing his tan arms across his chest.

  “I thought Mira told me something like that awhile ago,” She replied furring her eyebrows in embarrassment for being wrong with her assumption. She swore she’d heard a story similar to that.

  Across the bench, Gray chuckled at the two wizards, “Who would want to kiss his fiery ass, I don’t think anyone is that desperate.”

  Natsu jumped up from his seat and marched over to his childhood friend, throwing a finger towards the ice wizard’s throat. “What did you say, Frosty?”

  “You heard me, Lava Lips,” Gray spat in return, standing to reach the pinkette’s height.

  Their conversation ended the minute a certain red head shouted at the two to sit down in a menacing voice. Erza Scarlet had been overhearing the group’s conversation, considering her own fantasy of a first kiss herself.

  “Quiet, Lucy is right. A first kiss is suppose to be an important occasion filled with love for the person you’re kissing. It’s not something to be taken lightly.” She said with a satisfied smirk upon her face.

  The group silenced as they listened to the requip mage ramble on about her opinion of the importance of the one time moment. Natsu returned to his seat with a huff, giving a side comment to Happy about how boring the conversation was.

  Once the topic was changed, Happy told Natsu he’d go look at the board for a job he thought Lucy might enjoy. The celestial wizard had been complaining about her lack of funds for quite a few days, and the two males had been tired of her constant nagging. They were anxious to find a new job to take, so she’d finally stop talking about her rent.

  “Natsu, I think I’m going to head home for the night. I need to get some writing done,” the blonde stated with a sigh as she collected her belongings.

  It was pretty late at night by that time, and most everyone else had already left the guild besides their team and Mira cleaning up the bar for the night.

  “Okay, I’ll walk you home and then I’ll go back to mine,” Natsu said standing up and following her slim figure towards the door.

  It wasn’t that he felt she couldn’t handle herself at night on her own, but for some reason he had the urge to follow his partner home so she wouldn’t be alone. At least that’s the reason he told himself.

  Lucy didn’t question his new change of plans, since she usually walked home alone. He gave Happy a farewell saying he’d meet the exceed at home, before leaving the guild hall with the blonde by his side.

  They walked most of the way in silence, before engaging in small conversation about their day and how she thought they should really find a job soon. Once they finally reached the pebblestone sidewalk in front of her apartment, she turned to face the nonchalant pinkette beside her. That’s when she decided to bring back up the previous conversation still on her mind.

  “So you haven’t had your first kiss yet?” She asked looking down at the ground to avoid his gaze, a light blush adorning her pale cheeks.

  He looked taken aback at her choice of discussion, but still answered nonetheless. “Yeah, I haven’t had it yet,” he said with a blank look looking into her doe eyes.

  She finally looked up to meet his hazel green orbs, pursing her lips afraid of what she would say next. “I haven’t either.”

  Natsu was still confused as the why she was bringing kissing up in the first place, it just seemed kind of odd. He obviously knew she hadn’t had her first, seeing as she seemed so passionate along with Erza by just fantasizing about her first kiss.

  Instead of waiting for his response, Lucy decided to just rip the band aid off what she was intending to ask. Quickly she spoke, “Do you want to be my first kiss?”

  The dragon slayer just looked directly into her eyes finally realizing why she had brought the topic up in the first place. Did that mean she wanted him to be her dream-like first kiss, or did she just want to get that first moment over with?

  “Why?”

  Lucy’s eyes widened upon his question, out of all the responses she expected, a reason why wasn’t one of them. What could she say? I’m hopelessly in love with you, and I want you to be my first kiss because you’d make it special.

  “Because we both haven’t had our first kisses yet, and…I don’t know, you can’t just ask why,” she pouted feeling rejected even if he hadn’t exactly disagreed.

  “I’m just wondering, I didn’t say no. I thought you wanted your first to be special?” He asked the smaller girl beside him, who only continued to blush in return.

  She took a moment to ponder her response, before just letting her mind take over her voice. “It would be special with you, because you’re my partner.”

  Natsu wasn’t exactly clear on what that meant. Partner like as in a team, or was she hinting romantically? He wasn’t dense at all, but girl’s were clearly a mystery to him as well as most males in the world.

  “Okay, then let’s kiss.” He said too calmly than Lucy’s expected, causing her to almost sputter in response. He was pretty blunt for someone agreeing to what she’d inquired.

  “Oh…” she began, twirling her fingers around her long ponytail, “for how long then?”

  Why did girls have to be so specific on kissing, why couldn’t they just kiss someone and see what happens from there? Then again, Natsu wasn’t experienced at all in the act so he couldn’t talk at all on the subject.

  “I don’t know, thirty seconds?”

  Neither of them were aware if that was too long for a kiss, or too short due to their inexperience. Somehow they agreed to that time limit anyways.

  With the logistics figured out, they decided to let their bodies take control. The blonde leaned in towards his muscular figure, as if I magnet was pulling her towards him. She looked slightly up at his parted lips, her heart racing at the thought of tasting them.

  She could feel her her blood pumping in her ears and her inner dialogue screaming, “yes,” once their plush lips met together.

  Subconsciously, his hands slowly made their way to behind her neck and the other on her waist pulling her closer towards him intensifying their kiss. Lucy only moaned in response as she moved her hands to grab tufts of his spiky hair in her grasp.

  For people who weren’t experienced in the action, they both seemed to know exactly what they were doing finding their own pressure of lips together. Whatever fairy tale dream she’d previously had flew out the window at the taste of Natsu. He put all imaginary handsome princes to shame, in the arms of this dragon.

   With him in the moment, she felt complete. Their bodies were practically transcending into their own paradise where the world revolved around them, and nothing else mattered. There were no issues against the guild, no rent was due, it was just Natsu and Lucy.

  The fact that they were outdoors late at night on a winter’s night didn’t matter the either of them as his warmth soothed the two of them to comfort. Their kiss wasn’t too intense for a first, but continued for a awhile with the mages taking small breaths through their noses occasionally.

  After what seemed like forever, the two parted panting for air as their flushed faces leaned against each other’s foreheads. They returned to earthland as they gazed into each other’s eyes lovingly, changing every part of their relationship by that one kiss.

  “I think that was more like sixty seconds,” he said with a chuckle pulling Lucy back in for more as she complied happily.

#fairy tail #fairytail #nalu #natsu dragneel #lucy heartfilia #dirty jenga prompts #my writing #anon #ask #maria answers

[kendrixtermina]

Typing Misadventures - IN edition

So, typing and the difficulties therein.

Aside from person-specific ad-hominems, some that have been elaborated upon in attempts to explain them on this very website.

Sensors: Bad Sensor descriptions written by NPs, combining with the fact that Sensors rely a lot on developing a practical experential “feel” for things. A bad, vague and overly abstract description that doesn’t relate to their life is gonna be not very useful. (especially for SFPs for whom what they relate to is srz bzness) - Interestingly I’ve seen a lot of Sensors saying that they easily indentify particular types once they have encountered them IRL. (Speculation: With intuitives it probably depends more on wether they have their definitrions straight.)

Ne-Doms: Type-hop and doubt their type alot because they know they always could be mistyped and possibilities are the primary facet of reality for them. The “creative” nature of the auxillary, and their auxillary being a function that generates and handles belief systems,  means they can always reinterpret the evidence by redoing their reasoning or reassigning meaning, also the lack of Si leads to less constancy in their thinking, they change opinion easily, which is normally an asset, but not so much for self-typing as every input generates new ideas. (The auxillaries also have this but to a much lesser degree - b/c)

—

But today, I want to talk about INs (I know, boring - but those are what I know the most about since I am one.)

You may have seen me caveat my posts with “Unless I am actually an xNFP or something” as of late Yeah. It went about like this:

Troll: Haha you’re mistyped!

Me: Why?

Troll: because X.

Me: I have an alternate, more fitting explanation for X and a lot of things which my current typing explains betters especially when you get into the nuance of mbti theory.

Troll: (*hamfistedly applies overreductionistic function definition*) “Anyone who ever quotes a source ever is a Te user”. Just like anyone who ever mentions memory is a SJ amirite?

Troll: *shifts the topic to my person and then accuses me of talking about myself*

Me: *blocks troll largely to curttail own tendency to waste time & energy with internet arguments*

So at my best,  I believe in not dismissing inconvenient PoVs and double-checking, and the main point of replying them was to leave an alternate opinion for future readers hence no point in continuing after that had been done.  

At my worst damn inf Fe makes it hard to ignore input even if I don’t believe it’s justified (except when it fails to pick them up - as inferior functions are wont to be its either sluggish or AHH with little inbetween. ) and that lil 8 fix of mine doesn’t want to “stand down quietly”.  

So I ask a few reasonable, knowledgeable, non-troll person, one of which said “Hm, could be, you anecdote alot which X type also does”

I believed this was better accounted for by simple ol’ Si and w4-self revealing tendencies, but, how could I know for sure? I never denied having a pronounced 4wing and fix, but I thought that sufficiently explaining their perceived discrepancies insofar as I found them consistent with reality and indeed all data collected so far. Too much would just be filed away as “inf Te” as a blanket term, the way any sign that [fan favorite character] is ST rather than INFJ is “inferior Se” though that supposed “inferior” is 80% of what she does and all moments claimed for F or N are the sort of situations where anyone would display emotion or philosophizing and what intuition they display is distinctly Ne instead. 

Like the proverbial man who dreamt of being a frog I couldn’t cast the doubt from my mind and went over reinterpreting my thought patterns throughout the day. How do I know I’m NOT X type? After all my idea of and criteria for type are based on the definitions I extracted from various mbti sources when first familiarzing myself with the topic… how do I know I understood it correctly? How can ANY human correctly understand a definition if they have to deduce/reconstruct/guess what the other meant with their own flawed mind?

(At this point the non-INs in the audience might be rolling their eyes)

I still thought my type made the most sense but the person, through trolling in that particular instance, was not alltogether clueless and had some good insights, and also, some ppl agreed with them (theres that Fe again) - I was pretty sure I was in the holographic-panomramic thinking style but I could be wrong,  thats a fairly rarely used concept which I simply started using cause I thought it made sense. ENFPs can mistake themselves for introverts. I have been mistaken for extrovert b/c of my lack of filter… but I was pretty sure I was a very pronouncedintrovert and had Fe, and so I went over it over and over again.

They said I didn’t comprehend _ i had some theory as to why they thought the way they did (not just bias against xNFPs but assuming all Ti is like aux Ti. After all, an introverted function as a dominant builds a framework and may be reluctant to accept or need time to withdraw when said framework clashes with reality to the point of needing a full revamping, purportedly resulting in a certain stubbornness particularly if it’s a Ji function.  )

but what if I really Didn’t comprehend? Then all my reasoning would be worthless! I dont think I have the skills of an INFP, but what if i misunderstood those? Was a lot of what I’d attributed to Ti just Ne? i thought I had rather typical Ti speech patterns (it was hard to unsee, like my brain used a highly predictable parsing alghorithm to make thoughts into words) but they disagreed and pointed to what they thought was Fi. 

I thought that despite all the differences introduced by  shared preferences and  there were differences between I and the Fi doms I knew. The 9 and the 6 were much more lowkey, non-confrontational than I and way more perceptive in line with how socionics describes Fi as the “Ethics of Relations” and how Nardi calls it an “Inner state of listening/reacting”; I mostly listen to the contents of someone’s words; I’d spot a liar by contradiction or unbeliavable statements, or by deducing what beliefs they are operating from. Feelers supposedly use primarily tone of voice... but I have sure noticed tone of voice a few times, and this is a qualia. I can’t compare what “Fi” or “Ti” feel like without making assumptions of which one I am using. 

Supposedly

The 4! INFPs should be the most similar to me, on the other hand, they tend to have a certain...absoluteness in their beliefs and statements in a way I wouldn’t be comfortable with. I’m more hesitant, more relativizing, adding qualifiers etc so bI don’t say anything incorrect. 

I don’t mean to bash the INFPs here, they are usually just processing their specific feels and do not mean to imply things about others. (Tumblr INFP: “I, an INFP, experience X.”. Tumblr xxFJ: “Are you saying that other types don’t????? You can’t say that! How self absorbed are you?” Immature  Tert Fe User:*distantly feels the same urge toward ,moral condemnation as FJ,but couldn’t care less if INFP offends anyone -  settles for calling them a snowflake instead. * TJs and Ti doms: *roll their eyes, half-assedly consider correcting whoever they disagree with but ultimately just keep scrolling*) Of course Team Fe sometimes has a point if the INFP in question is young and/or irresponsible. 

Example: 

One INFP 4w5: “I be those shallow fake bitches look down on you just because you don’t wear as much makeup. I don’t think anyone who wears makeup can be trusted, unless it’s like,halloween makeup or something like that, they’re just putting up fake faces to be popular.”

Me (let’s say, presumed INTP 5w4): “I dunno... Like I agree that those girls are shallow bitches,if they had spines, they wouldn’ perform arbitrary fake behavior just to be popular.* But not everyone is the same - maybe some people might just wear makeup because they like how it looks. The real problem is people being judged by arbitrary conventions on principle. What does is matter whether someone wears makeup or not? Its a made-up convention with no real reason.  It’s none of anyone’s business.”

* for the record I have since realized that there’s nothing bad about wanting to be popular as long as yopu dont harm anyone, and that for some people its genuinely what they want. I was, like,  13. Common (w)4 pitfall I guess. 

As you see both I and this middle school friend of mine are expressing 4-ish povs, but I used to think  the difference in our reasoning highlighted some differences. 

Granted this is more 5w4 vs 4w5 than necessarily Ti vs Fi,  Could just be the 5′s general disconnect toward action and desire to “know more first”. 

There are 5 INFPs. after all. Mostly sx 5s and as such differentiable from the relatively intense, dramatic sx 4 as long as you’re certain enough that they’re sx. Thinking about how to describe them. More second-guessing and ‘drifting’ than the 4 ones but like them in their analytical nature. A different kind of contemplative.  Still reasons distinctlylike an INFP - See, One of them was religious, for example, and I’m pretty sure an INTP would have had more posts about why they were religious or not, though it’s one of the types most likely to be a non-believer, the religious ones tend to have a theological bent and talk about the perfection and incomprehensibility of god, how god is totally logical etc. (Thomas Acquinas is a famous example) - their faith will be an ordered self-consistent system. A bit like that example of copernikus assuming the orbits must be perfectly circular because natture as he understood it would tend toward the most “perfect” forms. I’m not religious and I could likewise talk about that at lenght.

Arguments that convinced me:  “This is how these beliefs came from, not an actual god” and “If were made out of single celled organism who die all the time as shed skin cells, how would the rest of them dieing at once be different?” “Even if your religion is true that means many, if not all others are not. So at least all some must be myths. How is your “true” religion different from them?” 

Arguments made by famous Te-Fi users: “Occams Razor.” “We can’t disprove a giant sucker on the back of Pluto either, but its no reason to suppose one.”“Belief in god hampers human development and creates dependent, slavish mentality”

That 5!INFP’s attitude toward their belief reminded me more of another Fi dom I know (albeit an ISFP). “Yeah, I know the common objections, but look, it’s what I believe. Don’t come into my house and be a jerk to me about it.” or “[Assholish behavior] is not actually in line with my religion. My religion, and this aspect of it, are actually about love/peace/duty/etc” 

If, while conversing,  you hit a hard disagreement, that is,  an axiom that’s not up for debate, your Fi-dom friend may change the topic/agree to disagree/ “It’s just the way I feel” 

[This could apply to other moral or ideological questions religion is just an example; This is not supposed to be about religion it’s just here to illustrate a perceived difference. . I’m not implying all INFPs have the same approach to religion or even have to be religious.]

Another conversation I remember having with them actually on the very subject of Fi vs Fe. IDK how we got to that topic but I mentioned something I initially thought was an enneagram thing (my memory is vague on the details) but I mentioned something like lowkey feeling guilty for receiving praise that I believe was undeserved. 

She deemed it a Fe thing and said that for her, as a Fi dom/ fe opposing type, a bit of praise she did not agree with might not cause any reaction at all unless she thought they had a point  or otherwise had a reaction from her end, like deciding the criticism was unfair - why should she feel guilty b/c of what someone else says? 

Granted that’s just an anecdote, but what am I to do? INFP 5s are not super common. Also I’m not making this decisionbased on any single of these examples but... not even from the “preponderance” so much as to how they can be best explained. 

And  of course, if I really did get everything wrong after looking into the topic for years, what guarantee is there that I typed any of those people correctly? None, as one of the trolls/claimants correctly pointed out. 

After all what I want is the truth, it doesn’t matter what it is. Or at least that is what I strive for as much as human frailty allows. so what if I’m an INFP? INFPs are awesome. I even considered the type early on, I just thougnt INTP fit better especially once I found out about inferior functions.  And I have always held that a person has no obligation to follow their “talents”. If I don’t have a “talent” for reason (which isn’t the same as mbti thinking anyways) all the reasons why I believe that it is a good way of life to aim for would still stand. Reason is a method to correct for human error and bias, after all, the error and bias we all have, no matter what Ji function we use.

Type insofar as it can even be said to be a real thing is a classfication of emergent qualities, not a hard measure you can get in an instrument. 

As much as I’d want to figure this out, there comes a point where you just have to like step back and put it in context.  it’s just a personality test/ little tool to facilitate communication in which “maybe this or that” is more helpful than nothing. 

Striving for it despite not being handed talent at birth is all the more worthwhile - and if reason was only for certain kinds of people what’s the point of it? Regardless of what tropes people associate with “science” or “logic”, what they actually are by definition are simple basic methods.

Last but not least there was a moment

Soo, existential crisis. At least they can’t doubt that I’m a melancholic or an oldham ideosyncraticXD

Then,  my doubt crumbled away to the “ mostly sure, dont think it could be anything else but im not omnicient” levels at which it was before.

What happened? Well, a rare event:

Well, I went outside and talked to people.

I visited my folks, saw new places, got into a few unscripted situations in other words. 

I’ve seen one post detailing that INs may mistype because they analyze themselves as a whole, feature in less apparent traits and second-guess their reasoning worrying about bias, noticing what sticks out more than the norm etc.  and so on and that may be it in part but I don’t think it’s only this relatively “noble”, too-much-of-a-good-thing mistake.

- It’s a matter about how we are all about ~extrapolating~ from data and using multiple data points and less about decisiveness and practicality. We brood away endlessly trying to come up with interpretations and conceptualizations that makes all the data points fit rather than just going with what they themselves largely seem to suggest. 

One good description I once heard is that Intuitives think in networks while Sensors think in puzzle pieces - I went overboard trying to build ever more complex networks instead of going “Yeah, with all the puzzle pieces so far it’s probably this.”. 

Sometimes the latter approach can be incomplete and miss game changing interconnections - but just as often, the former gets convoluted and therefore, both uselessly vague and too far removed from the actual data its meant to interpret. 

Aaaand, well, almost every sentence I said was “Did you know that...?” or “I think so/ don’t think so because of [observation followed by possible deduction].

Sure, I could be biased in my observation or unconsciously “doing it on purpose to appear a certain way” even if I don’t think I am or care about that, , but some critical mass of “doing it on purpose” would itself be equivalent with 5 (or a 3)

I was a little afraid one time; I reacted by withdrawing and looking at the whole thing as an observatrion and it was a highly temporary thing. And as much as I complain about Fe users playing police, I may have been guilty of one moment of overreacting, unwanted/socially-chiding “help” myself there. (The person perhaps justly called me a know-it-all. They were wrong about one thing but I may have handled it all more constructively) I repeatedly expressed vague undifferentiated preferrences that were closer to analyzing what factors were at work rather than having clear like/dislike reasons readily available. .

I critiqued a TV show (myself and the local INTJ annoying all the non-NTs with our loud, animated critiquing ) and a big factor to being unabvle to enjoy it fully was the lack of High-Concept abstract sci fi content and mostly the lack of consistency - normally a lot of my enjoyment would come from extrapolatinmg and deducing what the world is like and how it, the themes and charactzers “work”, but here I coulnd do that because it was tacked onto a ‘verse it did not fit into. I observed how said INTJ and I reacted to us correcting each other on small things with like a brief thanks or apology & just moving on whilst similar things had gotten annoyed snarks out of our otherwise patient Feeler sister...

The nails in the coffin were those 2 tumblr posts, one about differences in how Fi and low Fe argue (the latter pile including 3 phrases I used verbatim in the last discussion with my SO just hours earlier) and a post by the afore mentioned “resonable poster” about, as she called it “oversharing in soc variants vs soc blinds” though the correct amount of sharing might well be in the eye of the beholder.

But that was the one objection of the troll I didn’t have a non-vague satisfactory reply to, what rly kept me wondering rather than “eh not gonna reinvent the wheel again”, something about “sp/sx woldn’t have long descriptions or emo rants” Apparently they do when they never have to dea with the person again (such as on the internets. )

IDK I did move the description so no one’s forced to read it but lots of peeps have one (This is like... a blogging site??) but the reasons for its existence had more to do with “completionist urges related to then-current obsession (typology)” and “So I like X, bite me.” sort of sentiment than whatever it was they presuposed. 

Dear Causal-Deterministic peeps (ENTP, INFP, ISTP, ESFP): Instances of the same behavior can be caused by different causes! Look at this: 2 4 8.

What’s the pattern? - Could be “powers of 4″.  Could also be “even numbers” or even “any increasing integer”. 

Of course this whole mess is an example of where we H-P folks (INTP, ENFP, ISFP, ESTP) look at everything from multiple angels/Povs, (”Is it like this? Is it lika that? It COULD be seen this other way...”) rather than, well, decide which ones are most relevant here/ “Pick one”. At least the SPs have Se to “just grab one” or whatever it is they do. 

Whereas we just stand there speculating XD The ENFPs sorta do it too but in a whole different way/ area of life? 

Me: “Either he is nuts or I am nuts because we can’t both be telling the truth!”

ENFP: “Well I empasize with both of you so I don’t think either of you is nuts?”

Me: Sorry but this is a real dichotomy here for once. If he dun nothing wrong, then I would be wrong for accusing him thus, just as he says..

ENFP: Can we all agree to disagree and chil maybe? plz??

Might also be why there`s this overlap between ENFPs and Universalists? Though obviously not all ENFPs are universalists and vice versa. 

So yeah. Kinda comical in hindsight. I started out all second guess-ey and entertaining both possibilities in parallel but in the end, well, I do think it’s INTP after all, at least, I’d say its the most probable by a considerable margin. Most definitely 5 tho. For all the occasionall 4 ness its by far the most overwhelming tendency in day to day life/thinking ugh cant I NOT spew nerd facts about everything in sight. What are other conversaton topics? 

Bottom Line: By thinking about your own thinking you alter your thinking, and that way lie 2nd order chaotic systems, the Uncertainty Principle and Goedel’s Theorem...

So going outside both threw me out of that recursion and added new, raw data as a means to test the competing hypotheses. It forced me to see what I actually act like by and large in a natural setting rather than the many ways I could interpret or read the way I act like, which like, is not actually all that mysterious lol

#mbti #intp

[ardalionandnatalia]

Ardalion and Natalia (X)

Katya is awakening now.

Katya just had a dream about the first time she and Kuzma came together.

She blinks as she wakes up and realizes she is not with Kuzma any longer.

Having entered the temple with her bundles of sheaves, herbs and flowers, Natalia is led to bathe and purify herself. She does so, and then seeks Katya in the woman's assigned chambers.

She sighs, feeling cold and sad as she remembered what had happened to her.

Had she really died, though, she wondered? She did not recall dying. She had only assumed she was dead after talking to Sam and the others.

She see Katya sleeping, now stirring. She kneels down beside her bedside and awaits for her to wake fully.

Katya: Natalia?

Folding her hands in her lap, Natalia poses still. Hearing her name uttered, she raises slightly, nearing Katya now, over her bed.

Natalia: Are you awake now? *gently draws back the covers and helps Katya sit up in bed*

Katya: yes, I am fine. Thank you for attending to me. What will happen next?

Natalia: *bows head in respectful deference, since Iole tasked her with serving Katya and preparing her for tomorrow* Iole and the other oracles are in the midst of final preparations and prayers to appeal for the forecast tomorrow. Iole has asked me to guide you through the final preparations you and I must undergo, since I am to be your companion when we traverse down into the inner core of the temple, beneath the ground. Today, you must be dressed and taught how to offer offerings to ensure you are answered.

Katya: I see. Thank you for guiding me. Are we heading out now to the core of the temple?

Natalia: No, not yet- we need to dress and prepare our garments before we are summoned by the oracles. It's not tomorrow yet. We have many things to do today. *offers Katya her hand, though wonders if Katya will be alarmed by her own boniness and claws. Ardalion's words still gnaw on her about bodies and such.*

Katya does not seem phased and takes her hand.

She is careful not to touch the claws, but does not seem to really care.

Natalia notices that Katya's forearms have some small scars on them from the years of working at the factory.

Surprised by her acceptance, Natalia glances down at their hands, and in the growing light of the sunlight shafting through, she notices the fine, pale scars lining and splotching Katya's arms. Natalia realizes Katya has lived a hard live and is determined to make this new life easier for her. She feels a swell of sympathy for the composed woman before her.*

Katya looks at her curiously, but does not indicate any other emotions otherwise.

Katya: You seem to be very curious about me.

Natalia: Let's go to the outer hall- we have better lighting, and we can prepare our garments and headdresses for tomorrow. I'll show you yours, as I'll be making it for you. Yes, you do elicit my curiosity- you're from another land, another people. I'm curious, especially since you are from the future, at least to me. You're two centuries beyond me. Come, let's go to the outer hall. The sun shining and there's a nice breeze.

Katya: Ardalion is also from my time and my country. I see you have been talking to him a lot. How do you find him...?

Natalia: I found him, along with another man, a man from England, who disappeared. Ardalion developed an altered form with powers, and we slain a trio of monsters together. He is a vain creature, fueled by the basest. I dislike him now and do not wish to speak to him. He is amusing with his ideas, he fancies himself some sort of philsopher, but he is like some upstart who thinks they're another Descartes or Prometheus because they read a few books or get promoted in their trades.

Katya: ...I see.

Katya bows her head.

Katya: You dislike Ardalion?

Natalia: I do- what of it? Let's focus on you and your goal here. Enough talk of him. Or the men here.

Katya: I don't truly dislike him. I still like him somewhat, to be honest. He is a charming man. My goal here is to see the vision to see my husband again, right? Well, this is related. My husband and Ardalion actually share my traits in common. Perhaps this is why I can't dislike Ardalion entirely, still, after all that has happened.

Natalia: Charming? I suppose he can be. But he's a lewd brute as well. Let's focus on your husband. And your baby.

I know what you mean, though. About not hating someone entirely. I and my mother... well.... it is complicated. She and I were as complex at the Gordian knot. And it seems we tied that knot between ourselves, equally at fault.

Katya's mouth tightens.

Katya: Indeed, things can be like that sometimes. Shall we progress with the ritual now? One more thing. Lewdness is not necessarily a bad thing. Or perhaps I'm wording it wrongfully.

Katya frowns.

Katya: I'm not good at expressing myself sometimes. I wasn't that well educated, unlike Ardalion and my husband.

Natalia: *nods, and leads Katya to a low-legged table, laden with a cloth, on top of which are bundles of herbs and fresh flowers, plus ripened wheat sheaves and fresh, supple sprigs* Education can only do so much- I too am educated, yet I fail at being gentle and kind. It's hard for me to make friends or be liked.

Katya: Emotional expression plays a large role in getting people to like you.

Natalia: It's better to be a better person, than have all the education in the world. Better to be enlightened, than scholarly.

Katya: There is nothing wrong with being scholarly though. *she frowns, hating herself for being a peasant*

Natalia: Yes, you are right. And I have a bad temper, as you might see in the future, Katya. You should be warned.

Katya: Enlightenment doesn't always come to the blind who have blind faith.

Natalia: Scholars can solve problems, but never themselves.

Katya: one must learn about the world with open eyes and not rely on blind faith as the uneducated are wont to do. My husband is a scholar.

Natalia: Perhaps. Enlightenment is a choice. Arrogance can barricade a person from choosing enlightenment. It demands humility at times. Then he is fortunate to have you, then.

Katya: and ignorance often means succumbing to drunkenness and abuse. I've seen it all.

Natalia: I lived among the educated- drunkenness and abuse are in all people.

Katya: You and I are from different cultures, different times. Where you come from, it seems like the women, in particular, act very differently. The way you talk about your mother...

Natalia: My mother, despite being the most educated and refined lady of the highest breeding, was a cruel soul. She was violent, too. She killed my father when he became blind after an accident.

Katya: It is not common where I come from for a woman to act like that.

Katya bites her lip again.

Natalia: Let's forget the past, and focus on what's before us. You want to see your husband and child again, do you not?

Katya: Yes.

Natalia: I am fortunate fate gave me another mother in Iole, though I respect her enough not to call her so.

Katya: I don't need a mother.

Natalia: Let me show your headdress, it's different from mine and the others.

Katya: I am glad you have found one though.

Natalia: But I do. So let's focus on our task at hand.

Katya: You like to talk back a lot, don't you?

Her tone is not angry or reproachful, merely curious. She's never talked with someone who replies like this before.

Natalia: Yes. What of it? Does it displease you that I do?

Katya: Most people I know would have just ended the conversation just then. No, it's just peculiar. And makes me wonder if I have angered you with my different opinions. I personally don't like talking back, so maybe that is why I thought for a while you were angry at me.

Natalia: *softens and lowers sharpened guard down* We are different, for sure, Katya. I hope I have not angered you, or given you offense. *grows thoughtful* I guess I talk back because I felt a need to talk back. Like if I didn't talk back, I'd have no power, and others could demean me, or overpower me. I like to voice what I think and feel, because for so long, I was forbidden to do so. Why do you dislike talking back? You are shy, I think?

Katya looks away.

Katya: I want to avoid conflict at all means. I don't mean to disturb you. Let's just go back to the task at hand.

Natalia: You should not be afraid, now that you're in this new world. You don't have to worry about the conflict being bold would have had in your life and world. *picks up the sheaves and supple, green sprigs to make Katya's headdress*

Katya doesn't respond. She doesn't quite appreciate Natalia lecturing her, however, and thinks that people should just agree to disagree. She dislikes the idea of talking back just for the sake of it, particularly to a stranger like Natalia.

Katya: Thank you for helping me out again.

Katya: *to herself* I'm bold in my own way. Who does this person think she is, lecturing me? She doesn't know anything about me and assumed I was even shy. If I wasn't bold, how would I not have made the connections I did with Galkin? I would not have gotten close to Kuzma if I was not bold, either. It took guts for me to find and approach him again, for me to start our relationship!

Natalia: *glances at Katya sideways and senses her inner annoyance. Natalia regrets her brash assumptions and how she paraded them before Katya. She attempts to reconcile*

Natalia: You

Katya thinks she'll never see Natalia again anyways, so what is the point of thinking so much about this?

Katya doesn't say anything and stares straight ahead.

Katya: Is something the matter?

Natalia: You're irked by what I said, are you not? I'm sorry. I assumed too much. In truth, I do not know you, so I can't understand you entirely, and what you do, and how you act.

Natalia: Forgive me.

Katya: I am not angry with you. Please proceed.

Katya closes her eyes, hiding a dismissive look away from Natalia.

Katya: *to herself* and this is why I usually don't have female friends. They assume too much and they think they can tell you all of these things on a first meeting.

Katya thinks it's a great irony that she was thrown into this mostly female world and the only two males here are Ardalion and Sam of all people.

Natalia: *opens her mouth as though she desires to pursues this matter further, but seeing Katya's dismissive look, feels piqued and meek. Hangs her head slightly, wanting to withdraw a bit. She has driven away yet another, and she regrets it was a newcomer as Katya is.*

Katya has not really given Natalia much thought as she thinks about Sam and how humorous he is.

Natalia: No, we have to prepare here. *grows a bit pensive. She senses Katya dislikes her company.* *bites her lip down, not wanting to fail Iole and vex Katya any further*

Katya: What do we do to prepare?

Natalia: *begins picking up the sheaves and sprigs, now bending the supple, tender sprigs into a U-shape, like a crown of sorts* We first need to make your headdress. Because you're a wife and mother, your headdress must be fashioned with ripened sheaves of wheat and corn, to symbolize your fruitfulness in life as a wife and mother. *holds up a golden sheave as she explains, the fine bristled head of the sheave glimmers slightly in the sunlight*

Katya: What if I was only a wife and not a mother? Then what?

Natalia: *places down Katya's designated headdress and picks up several flowers* Then your headdress would be of these- these flowers symbolize the woman before motherhood and marriage- she has not lived long into life, so she is like a flower.

Natalia: It's the same if you're wife and not a mother.

Katya: I see.

Natalia: But you're both, you're a wife and a mother.

Katya looks at Natalia for a while and is tempted to ask if she was married, but doesn't.

Katya feels that Natalia is indignant about this topic.

Katya: Yes, I am. I didn't know I would be, to be honest. But that's a topic for another day.

Natalia: Mine differs because I was never a wife, nor a mother.

Katya: I see. It is interesting. It must be liberating to never be a wife and mother.

Natalia: Yes, it was for the best. I'm not fit for either role. But let's return to yours. It will look very nice once I'm done.

Katya: especially since you seem very at peace with your choice, and the fact that you long to be mentored by a woman.

Natalia: Liberty only comes to those who can enjoy it despite their lives. I could be free as a mother and wife, or free as a woman on my own. A woman on her own can be just as oppressed.

Katya: Can I help you make the headdress?

Natalia: I'm sorry. I spoke too much. Let's focus on the task at hand, here. Almost finished- yes, please help me*notices her claws are tangled and tied in the delicate threads of the stripped sprig- holds out her hands to Katya to untangle and then re-tie the sheaves to the bent sprig*

Katya untangles and helps her to re-tie.

Katya: I never got along well with women, to be honest. I cannot imagine living here that long. I'm sorry about the comment I made about not wanting a mother when you clearly have alway wanted one. I spoke too soon.

Natalia: *looks thoughtfully at her, pauses for a moment before she speaks*

Katya: I just never felt the need to connect with any woman, to be honest. I've always had difficulties for some reason. I've always felt that women were judgmental, rude, and nitpicking.

Natalia: May I be honest with you, Katya?

Katya: And I admire people with strong goals who climb the social ladder. most women I knew and know are not like that. That is why I always felt the most comfortable with men. What do you want to say?

Natalia: Back in my life, when I lived as a human, I too never sought or even liked the company of women. They all seemed, as you say, just as you say- nitpicking, assumptive, meanly-minded, materialistic, and cruel creatures. All I saw were women like my mother, so many women like her. And my prioresses as well, who were no better than her. I met one girl who was a friend to me, but I lost her. Men were intelligient, they did things, they advance and moved the world in ways women were not allowed in my time. I wanted to join that world. I liked the company of men, like my father, Andrea, Signors Morosini and Di Petro, and even an unusal and unlikely friend in Calafado. I relished their company and took comfort in their understanding and acceptance.

Natalia: Even Calafado was kinder to me than my own mother.

Katya: I see.

Katya sighs and looks away. She was not expecting Natalia's life story.

She feels too tired and overwhelmed to have a proper conversation about these kind of things. She feels a bit guilty she hasn't been very open to talking more to Natalia, though.

Natalia: But I spoke too much now, I'm irritating you. See*holds up the headdress before Katya* It's finished now.

Katya feels that Natalia's personality is somewhat like Liza's--very acidic, critical and overly emotional. This somewhat disturbs her.

Katya decides to smile and take the headdress and forget all of this came up.

Katya: Thank you! This looks wonderful.

Natalia: *gestures for Katya to bow her head so she can crown the piece on her head*

Katya bows her head.

Natalia: *carefully secures the headdress between her ears and weaves a few strands of her light hair to fully latch the piece like a crown*

Katya: I bet this looks great on me. Thank you for your wonderful help, Natalia.

Natalia: Yes, you look fit now. Now for your robes.

Natalia: *ducks into another hall, speaks with another oracle, and is handed two folds of robes, one for herself, one for Katya*

Katya: What will you be doing to my robes?

Natalia: *gestures for her to stand in another hall where the sun is shining the least, so there is shade*

Natalia: We need to dress you now, in these special robes.

Natalia: *lies out Katya's robes on a lit patch of the mosaic floor, a white peplos with a red himation, the red symbolizing her marriage and motherhood*