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bewilderedbuck · 10 months

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Devi vs. David: aka a comprehensive list of every single time ben gross has referred to devi as one or the other (season four edition)

HERE IT IS!!! the final edition of devi vs. david!!! if you're new here and haven't checked out any of my other devi vs. david deep dives, please feel free to check them out here: season 1, season 2, season 3. you can also find all of my devi vs. david ramblings here. and as i've said again and again and again, this is a list of every single time ben refers to her as either devi or david, this time in season 4, with context + insight + my own lil insane thoughts, because i'm 100% totally normal when it comes to this topic (they said, like a liar).

heads up, not all of the netflix captions are accurate, or the whole quote wasn't all in one frame, so if the font looks different in any of the following screencaps, it's because i captioned them myself.

i already noted in previous analyses, as well as in this post, that ben tends to go for “david” during their rivalry and their friensdhip, as opposed to when they’re estranged/fighting etc and when they're in more...well, romantic situations, he defaults to “devi.” i’ll go a little more into this towards the end, but it’s just something i’d like to bring to your attention before i get started.

anyways, here we go!

hmm remember when i predicted we would get a “devi” first this season because of the months of distance and miscommunication? and when i thought it would happen immediately after devi sees margot kiss ben? i may not have had all the details right, but i saw this coming from a mile away. and this also fits into the pattern i thought was going to be established: season 1 we get “david” first, season 2 we get “devi,” season 3 “david” and now in season 4 they’re finishing the pattern with another “devi.” they’re in wildly different places in their relationship in each of these instances, which i go more in detail about in this post where i predicted that we would get a “devi” first this season.

anyways. this use of “devi” has me hurting for both of them. they’ve got this - this chasm of months of distance, of zero contact, of miscommunication and misread feelings and misrepresented actions (“he was clearly embarrassed for me.” vs “it was so clear she that thought it sucked. she got up and sprinted out.” i love my two unreliable narrators devi vishwakumar and ben gross!!). i’m having a lot of thoughts about devi’s intentions here that i…probably won’t go into further detail about, lol, because this post is about ben. so. of course he reverts to “devi” here - they aren’t friends, right now. they aren’t really rivals right now, either - i mean, they always will be, of course, but that’s not the focal point of their relationship here. they’re talking for the first time after three months of radio silence, of ben creating this rift between them because of some bullshit advice after misrepresenting what happened (okay like. i’m not here to hate on ben - i just. it’s his fault. it’s literally his fault). he can’t call her “david” because, as i’ve said before, “david” has turned fond. they aren’t friends, they aren’t rivals, they aren’t lovers. so, “devi.”

(didn't include the first "devi" he says to get her attention in this scene, sorry.)

okay this is. basically bouncing off the last one - he can’t call her “david.” they aren’t close enough for that, not right now - they won’t be for some time this season. but he’s also trying to set the tone of the conversation, a more mature version of the one they had in the beginning of the episode. and i do applaud him for this, for owning up to all of this being his fault, too (which. i don’t think all of it was, honestly - there is blame to be placed on devi and on margot over what happened this episode, but the 3 months of no contact? ben’s fault, 100%). big props to him for apologizing. however still a little salty about him internalizing those words from mr. basketball player all those months ago, because dude did not have all the info when he gave ben that advice. but to be fair - ben is a seventeen year old with low social skills (not faulting him for that because like. same) so i sympathize with him a bit there. overall, based on where they are in their relationship in 4x01, i was really pleased with how this convo turned out especially since the spoilers we were given from the premiere made it look so much worse than it really is.

hm. remember how that last convo of theirs was pretty mature and low-conflict. yeah then they give us this. ben’s…exasperated. within reason, i think - and to be clear i don’t think devi’s really in the wrong here, it’s just…he chose to be with margot because he thought it was the easier route. he distanced himself from devi because he thought it would be easier. but it’s not. of course it’s not - he and devi both still have all these messy feelings for each other that they’ve been pushing down and suppressing and denying. and it’s tiring. being around devi while he’s “““moving on””” is tiring. being sucked into drama over and over is tiring. he wants - or thinks he wants- something calm, and easy. -and like. it would be fuckign easy if y’all just got your shit together and admitted your feelings but that comes later so we’re moving on for now-

okay so. as i’ve said in my previous posts, it doesn’t make sense for him to refer to her as “david” to other people when she’s not around, so we’re not going to explain why he said “devi” here - that’s a given. but this whole scene…he kinda let devi get into his head before talking to margot. like, from the characters’ point of view, not ours, it definitely seems like margot had the most motive to deface her car. i mean ben straight up says, “you did have a good reason, so i could understand why you might.” and this isn’t me digging at devi for thinking margot did it, or ben for second-guessing margot, or anything like that - it’s just like. objectively. it does seem like margot could have done it. so i get where ben’s coming from.

okay so…we know that that is. false. a lie. an untruth. et cetera. bouncing back to the first instance of “devi” in 4x02, this, once again, makes me think that ben is just…trying to make things easier, calmer. he doesn’t want to deal with devi’s drama right now (again, not dissing devi, just explaining his pov). interrupting her with, “listen, devi,'' to get her attention, to shut her up because he just…can’t do this right now. he’s conflicted - he cares about devi so deeply that it’s detrimental to him at times, and after the events of 4x01 and 4x02, he thinks the best thing to help him keep “““moving on””” (bc like. i’ve touched on this before but there is no moving on for him when it comes to devi) is to go back to silence and estrangement. back to how they were over the summer. back to how they were in those few episodes of season 2, even, just with less vitriol. so, “devi” to further that distance - earlier in the episode, he says, “we are friends,” but here, he’s all but saying, we can’t be friends, not anymore. not now. maybe not ever again.

following this up with:

the thing is…he does look sorry. he doesn’t want to lose her again. it hurts her, yes, but it also hurts him. but like i said - this is easier for him, for right now at least.

oooh this brings me back to 2x08, “devi, you’re daisy.” ben, currently dating a girl that’s not devi, while still having all these complicated feelings for her, relating her to the material they’re currently studying, after she almost became the reason said girlfriend had to leave sherman oaks (temporarily for margot, of course, but still) - it’s not an exact copy/paste, obv, but i’m loving the parallel. also brings me back to 1x02, “it’s okay, devi. i know how hard it is to memorize seven facts,” the same tone being used then as it is now - although with different intentions, of course. ben is - bitter, i would say. of course he is. this whole situation is just…really reminiscent of that 2x05 to 2x07 arc, although with a bit less anger - they’ve got not just their rivalry and (currently, failed) romance behind them, but also those months of real friendship they had during season 3. there’s even more history between them to contend with now, which makes it harder for him to be angry with her. he still is - just not to the same extent as the s2 aneesa situation.

remember when i said ben stopped talking to her to make it easier? yeah. i honestly totally forgot he says exactly that until i got to this scene while writing this out. “it’s just easier this way. she just always complicates things.” just - ouch, ouch, ouch. this is just me reiterating everything i’ve already said, i guess. does he want to push devi away right now? no, i don’t think so. but it makes things less complicated for him. devi is messy, yes, they’ve established that well over all four seasons - but this isn’t really about how messy devi is, is it? he tells margot that it’s because of devi, and it is, partially, but it’s also because of him. because he and devi clash. because he and devi mesh. because, at least right now, it is so hard for him to separate all these things he feels - angry and disappointed, yes, but there’s this - wistful, i want to say, feeling there under all of that, this pull he’s always going to feel with her. and he’s not in a place where he can let that go unless he cuts her off.

god i do feel for ben here. i wish they had brought back some of the stuff from last season with him…chilling out more when it comes to academics and all that, but like, this is ben gross we’re talking about here - one intestinal blockage and heartfelt convo with his dad isn’t going to erase over a decade of self-set high expectations. dude is stressed, literally sweating through his clothes and now he looks like someone squirted a bottle of french’s on him.

and amongst all this, comes the last person he wants to talk to right now - he smells like sweat and acrylic paint and he just had his girlfriend judge the spiel he’s probably recited in the mirror a hundred times (which like, in all fairness to margot, it did feel like a bowflex commercial). and now here’s devi, all calm and collected with her power blazer and bouncy high pony - looking like the opposite of what ben’s feeling. he’s already frustrated, and her showing up makes it that much worse - until approximately two seconds later when she saves his women’s medium sized ass.

episode 5’s you never disappoint do you. i love, love, love this conversation between ben and devi - this vulnerability here, the way they tell each other that they’ll be okay, that yes, this is scary. our lives are about to change forever - but you’ll make it through. you’ll survive. you’ll thrive.

and this line…this so much. ben knows who devi is, has been in proximity to her for twelve years at this point, as a rival, as a friend, even as a lover for a short stint - and he knows her, and he knows that she knows herself. maybe - no, definitely - she didn’t know who she was before, drowning in fresh grief, but she’s grown, she’s healed (not completely, but she has healed nonetheless), and ben has had a front row seat to that. he has watched from up close as she became the person she is now. he believes in her, and he knows she can believe in herself, too.

i promise i’m feeling so totally normal about this…remember when i said i thought the first “david” would be at the end of 4x05 during reconciliation? i do, and, surprise surprise - i was right, because ben gross is nothing if not consistent (most of the time, at least). this “david” is driving me insane. they just had this heartfelt discussion about their fears with going to college, reassuring each other that they’ll be okay, fucking…pep talking each other, because they know each other better than they know anyone else, and ben drops a “david” like it’s nothing. like it’s easy. like he means it!!! i’ve said so many times that “david” has turned into this term of endearment almost exclusively used during their friendship, with ben avoiding using it when they’re not friends, and after last episode, where it had been verbally established (by devi, at least), that they still aren’t friends…now he slips a “david” in. this is the closest, the most vulnerable, they’ve been with each other in months. this is ben taking that step to pull them even closer - ben feeling safe enough to do so. this is ben saying, “i can be your friend,” thirty seconds before he actually utters those words.

okay full disclosure, “david” isn’t in the official captions on this one, so like, idk if jaren decided to add this day of filming or what - but whatever. that doesn’t matter here. what does matter is this absolute effortless slide back into their friendship. ben going out of his way to approach her, to tell her the good news (well. it’s not really good news for devi but like. he doesn’t know that, so). he’s excited for her!!! he gives her this boost of confidence (and yes i know it doesn’t last long, what with the deferral email coming in that day but. still.)

ooooh the way i love this scene!!! the fact that we get to see this interaction through paxton’s eyes is just delightful to me. like, okay, i’m not a “he’s mean to you so he likes you!!” kind of person, but banter like this coming about while they’re actively friends and post-bargot (bengot? ragross? ykwim) breakup…it’s thinly veiled flirting, and idk if we would have been given that perspective if this scene had been shot from devi’s pov, or ben’s. while this isn’t the first taste of mutual banter we’ve got all season (looking at you, 4x04 bathroom scene), this is the first friendly mutual banter, and god we were starving for it - at least i know i was. there’s bite behind their words, but it’s playful for both of them!! but like - then there’s the shot of them both immediately fixing their appearance after they’re no longer in each other’s line of sight (ben tucking in his necklace, devi taking off her cardigan) and i just. ooooh my god i love it. i’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again - peak crush behavior. and ben isn’t even posturing for paxton here like he would have before, thanks to the literal shitstorm of 3x06 - ben’s only…well, acting up, i guess i would say, for devi. not anyone else.

(and like this is totally unrelated but god do i wish we got more bexton interactions this season, but oh well.)

hi yeah no i’m still not over this scene. it’s. so unapologetically horny and it’s a side of ben i’m honestly so glad we got to see. like, okay, we already know he messed around a little with shira, had (bad) sex with devi, and is canonically a boob guy, but this more in-depth peek at his desires (cough cough degradation kink cough cough) is just…chef’s kiss. yes this is devi’s show first and foremost but god do i love the looks into ben’s brain we get. and this - this desire for devi, this want for her, something he can’t run from in his subconscious no matter how hard he runs from it in his waking hours - yes, it’s a wet dream, but it’s more than that. trent says it: “...you really love her.” ben loves her. he can’t get her out of his head. he wants her - physically and emotionally.

let’s, for now, ignore that this is moments before disaster. god, the look on his face, this eager, hopeful smile, the fucking bouquet he brought for her. he’s riding the high (ha, get it) of trent’s earnest pep talk, ready, for the first out of multiple times this season, to tell her he wants her. he’s done denying it, to himself and now to her, too (which. the latter obviously doesn’t really happen for another few months - but that’s beside the point).

this instance is pretty self-explanatory from ben’s pov (i mean, that’s what y’all are here for). checking in that she’s okay after seeing her throw up, congratulating her, etc. not spending too much time on this one - just noting the, once again, effortless slip back into “david” after the events of last episode. not saying there’s not some inner turmoil going on for him regarding his feelings for her; even though we can’t see it, it’s still there - but birthdaygate (as nalini called it) was…a disaster, to put it lightly, so. back to “david” it is…for now, at least.

god this followed immediately by the “is she okay?” and then ben rushing off to go check in on her…i’ll touch on this more in the next instance, but like. he’s truly the only one who gets how much this would hurt. not saying that no one else understands how devi feels, but he’s the only one who would really, truly get it if the same happened to him. just - the wondering how she didn’t get in anywhere, because she’s just as smart as (and, technically as 4x10 proves with that valedictorian sash, smarter than) him. the immediate concern for her, the need to check in...god, he cares for her so much.

“But you’re not a quitter.” bringing back the “no one knows them better than they know each other” thing - because it’s true. no one knows devi better than ben knows her. he knows what she’s capable of - has been on the opposing side of it for over a decade. he has won against her, lost against her, won with her, lost with her…he’s seen her rise and fall and pick herself back up to rise again. he understands her, and he understands why this is so painful for her - if it were him, it would feel like twelve years of hard work, of early mornings following sleepless nights, of flash cards and meticulous notes and extra credit projects, all being flushed down the drain. he gets it, gets her. this being the first use of “devi” (to her, and not in a dream sequence) since 4x05 - he uses it to set the tone, to get her attention, to get her to listen to him. because he knows she doesn’t really want to give up. and he as much as says that: “but if you don’t try everything that you can, you’re gonna regret it.” she already knows this - there’s no doubt in my mind about that, and there’s no doubt that ben knows that she knows this. she just needed to hear it from the one person who understands - and it worked. she does try - and, as we see in 4x10, she succeeds.

this…this is the biggest break in his pattern when it comes to “devi” vs “david.” he never refers to her as “david” with a - romantic isn’t the exact word i’m looking for, but it’s the one we’re gonna use - romantic intention. i think he’s using “david” here to sort of…ease the tension, so to say? to lighten the mood a bit. he wants to tell her - has wanted to since trent told him to speak his truth, likely longer than that. but after birthdaygate - he doesn’t want to show too much of his hand. “maybe i was wrong, david.” not “i was wrong, devi.”

feeling especially attached to this use of “david” tbh. the excitement he feels for her, immediately rushing to pull her into a hug, how proud he is of her, especially after the events of the last episode. again, he knows how hard she’s worked for this, and he knows what it’s like to feel all of that hard work pay off. she’s not alone in feeling this satisfaction - he’s feeling it with her.

i loved, loved all the callbacks to the previous seasons, and this is no exception. the addition of “david” here brings me back to this post by @catty-words that i’m still thinking about almost two years later (and have referenced in 2 out of 3 of these analyses): “it’s a relic from their rivalry.” obviously cori goes into it a bit differently in that post because it’s about their season 2 arc, but to re-work that line here: the equatorial guinea nametag (i would say plaque but like. it’s a piece of paper) is a memento of their first time teaming up, but it is also a relic of their rivalry in a way - the initial anger of devi infiltrating his club, the temporary alliance that was struck down just hours later, the nuclear attack. and so, yes, “david” here is used as that mark of friendship, as i’ve referred to it before, and so is the nametag, but they’re also both a representation of their enmity - albeit in a much more playful way than the "david" from 2x05.

i’m going to refer you to the genius of rae @ice-sculptures real quick, who had this to say in regards to ben’s patterns when it comes to what he calls her: “it could be that he “hides” behind david when the lines of their relationship are blurred and uses it as a way to convey the affection that he doesn’t think he can openly express. but when they actually get together he doesn’t need to hide anymore bc he knows that she’s aware of how much he loves her…so devi is enough.”

y’all. devi is enough. he doesn’t need to use a term of endearment, a pet name, with her here. he doesn’t need to hide behind “david.” and like. just in case you aren’t aware - “david” means “beloved” in hebrew. i’m sure ben’s aware of that - he’s a giant nerd, and he’s jewish - it never gets established in canon, so it may just be something we’re all collectively reading into, but like. i’m obviously going to continue reading into it - he doesn’t have to hide behind “beloved” anymore, he doesn’t have to use this roundabout way to tell her how he feels - he can just say it. and he says it without even knowing if she feels the same way. he’s following trent’s advice from 4x08: “you must go to her. [...] you must tell her how you feel. there's no time to waste. [...] you must speak your truth. she needs to know." he flies to her on a whim to tell her he likes her. actually, he thinks he loves her, “devi.” he loves her. this is the bravest thing he’s done - he doesn’t know how she feels, doesn’t know if she loves him back - but he tells her anyways. he can’t wait. it doesn’t matter that she’s flying to the east coast the next day, where she’ll be a two hour and six minute train ride away. he has to tell her now. there’s no time to waste. she needs to know.

god. i just - i love that they already had this - this whole soft, sweet love confession, full of shy, gentle smiles and giggles, followed by The Big Damn Kiss of All Time (and like. the big damn bang of all time) and he still feels the need to tell her that he wants to be with her. that he wants to start this next chapter of life with her. and there’s just…something so important to me about them not being high school sweethearts. about them not really giving this an actual shot until they’re headed to college. he doesn’t want “let’s kiss at our lockers in between periods and sit next to each other in the cafeteria while we eat gloopy square-shaped pizza.” he wants “let’s fall asleep on facetime during exam season. let’s spend one weekend in new york and the next in new jersey. let’s meet in the middle. let’s cram ourselves onto a twin-sized dorm room bed that’s definitely not made for two people. let’s learn how to be adults together. let’s give this a real try. let’s give us a real try.”

and so they do.

and with that...we're done. if you've reached the end, thank you for reading! i'm so sad that this series of posts has come to an end, but i've had an absolute delight doing these, and i'm so pleased with the ending of this show - because it didn't feel like an ending. it felt like a new beginning. i'm going to miss never have i ever (i already do), but i'm so happy to have spent the past few years yelling about it with all of you - and i'll likely continue yelling about it in the near future.

#long post #ben gross #devi vishwakumar #benvi #ben x devi #devi x ben #never have i ever #nhie #nhie s4 #never have i ever season 4 #devi vs david #went a little off the rails with this one but like. can y'all blame me they make me fucking insane #anyways pls validate me i spent so much time on this <3

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