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fromtheseventhhell · 2 months

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Very funny to me how Stansas present her character as being so interesting and complex because of her vulnerabilities, while simultaneously ignoring those same vulnerabilities in other characters. Dany is sold as a bridal slave and lacks agency throughout AGOT and after. Her dragons are either too young/small to utilize effectively or locked away for the majority of the story. They aren't some all-powerful trump card that protects her from harm. Arya is captured as a prisoner of war, forced to watch countless people tortured and murdered, and then essentially enslaved in Harrenhal with no way to fight back. She has an entire arc of feeling powerless, of being a "mouse", during ACOK. She doesn't have "kung-fu" or the ability to magically fight her way out of every situation, she's a young child lacking physical strength with only the most basic sword training.

Sansa isn't the only female character, she isn't the only young character, she isn't the only character who suffered, and no one is obligated to prioritize her. I'm so tired of Dany and Arya being mischaracterized and having their stories erased to prop Sansa up. "Sansa has kept her dignity" In other words, let's praise her for having a level of security that Dany and Arya don't have access to. She hasn't ever been forced to make a hard decision which of course means that she's morally superior to them. They can't even admit to themselves that her lack of action is due to her own passivity. If it doesn't fit their delusion, they erase it from the story and expect the rest of us to play along. Ask one of them what they like about her character without bringing up her being the ultimate victim, and I genuinely don't believe they'd be able to give you an answer. They belittle other characters more than they talk about her and these takes just scream insecurity/jealousy at the content and development other characters have in their POVs.

#arya stark #daenerys targaryen #anti arya bs #anti daenerys bs #asoiaf #anti sansa stans #these being comments on a video of a stansas /correcting/ a Dany stan...the jokes write themselves #/she's a break from the fantasy/ /people would be equally powerless in her situation/ like they aren't even pretending #that they don't use her as a boring every-man self-insert #okay she's subjectively /normal/...what is interesting or important about that in a fantasy novel? 😭#Arya and Dany are so interesting because they have that complexity...vulnerability but also the strength to navigate their situations #and it isn't because they're /special/ it's because that's who they are as characters #Reducing Dany to her dragons or Arya to her combat abilities (which barely exist) is such a disservice to their arcs #but of course acknowledging that they're well-developed and empathetic doesn't square with their fantasy that #Sansa is the most pure important character who deserves everything because she suffered 🙄#they really write entire fanfictions and then go /why don't people think like us?? 😔/#/Sansa kept her dignity/ yeah that's why she's currently part of a plot to poison a disabled child #because she was told she'd benefit from it oh yeah she's sooooooo morally superior to Dany and Arya 😑

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lookingforasphodels · 3 months

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... and some bitter people keep screeching that the Starks are the protagonists. ASOIAF is a phenomenon because of those messy dragonlords, it is known.

The whole expanded verse is Daenerys Targaryen's legacy.

#team dany we keep winning #the targaryens bring in the drama and the money #people are sore because it's the house of the dragon who is THE face of the verse #and it's all thanks to daenerys #they tried to ruin her character but her legacy is safe #daenery targaryen #anti daenerys bs #daenerys stormborn #asoiaf #got #game of thrones #house of the dragon #team targaryen forever #house targaryen

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atopvisenyashill · 1 month

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dany and rhaenyra really couldn't be more different considering dany grew up in abject poverty and rhaenyra was constantly shielded by her status and name. for dany, her name was a death sentence, so they exist in totally different frameworks of what being a “targaryen” even means. it’s this vast difference in upbringing that informs how they rule as well with daenerys giving a lot of attention to how her actions/rule affect the oppressed while rhaenyra doesn’t particularly care about the common people at all!

I'm gonna do what we do at work which is start this out with a lil ground rules corporate talk thing: We assume positive intent as a starting place. I'm taking this in good faith and I hope if anon sees this, they take it the same.

So the first point - that because dany grows up in poverty due to being a targaryen and rhaenyra grows up in privilege due to being a targaryen, that means they are too different and thus can't be compared. Firstly, I think it's just a bit silly when people say stuff like this. Sansa's sexual abuse and isolation at KL isn't somehow less traumatizing simply because she had access to food (food she frequently doesn't eat, because she's traumatized over all the sexual abuse!) nor is Arya's physical abuse in the Riverlands somehow less purely because she had a handful of friends. Catelyn having a husband that loves and respects her doesn't mean that there are not similarities in her raging against the system that has turned on her with Cersei's own rage against the system. There need not be a one to one similarity in order for us to find commonalities in themes and I think this constant "you can't compare those two" just stinks of ~oppression olympics~ but oppression just doesn't work like a checklist and if you experience the required threshold of terror, you "get" to call yourself oppressed in some way.

Moving on, the thing is, both of them experience the emotional and sexual incestuous grooming from an older relative that goes with being a Targaryen:

He pushed back her shoulders with his hands. “Let them see that you have a woman’s shape now.” His fingers brushed lightly over her budding breasts and tightened on a nipple. “You will not fail me tonight. If you do, it will go hard for you. You don’t want to wake the dragon, do you?” His fingers twisted her, the pinch cruelly hard through the rough fabric of her tunic. “Do you?” he repeated.

Daemon spent long hours in her company, enthralling her with tales of his journeys and battles. He gave her pearls and silks and books and a jade tiara said once to have belonged to the Empress of Leng, read poems to her, dined with her, hawked with her, sailed with her, entertained her by making mock of the greens at court, the “lickspittles” fawning over Queen Alicent and her children. He praised her beauty, declaring her to be the fairest maid in all the Seven Kingdoms. Uncle and niece began to fly together almost daily, racing Syrax against Caraxes to Dragonstone and back...Eustace, the less salacious of the two, writes that Prince Daemon seduced his niece the princess and claimed her maidenhood...The whole tale soon came out, in no small part thanks to Mushroom himself. King Viserys at first refused to believe a word of it, until Prince Daemon confirmed the tale was true. “Give the girl to me to wife,” he purportedly told his brother. “Who else would take her now?”

both of them also experience a much older sworn sword preying on their youth and fondness for him-

"What did she look like, your Lady Lynesse?" Ser Jorah smiled sadly. "Why, she looked a bit like you, Daenerys." He bowed low. "Sleep well, my queen." Dany shivered, and pulled the lionskin tight about her. She looked like me. It explained much that she had not truly understood. He wants me, she realized. He loves me as he loved her, not as a knight loves his queen but as a man loves a woman. She tried to imagine herself in Ser Jorah's arms, kissing him, pleasuring him, letting him enter her. It was no good. When she closed her eyes, his face kept changing into Drogo's.

Though many lords and knights sought her favor, the princess had eyes only for Ser Criston Cole, the young champion of the Kingsguard and her constant companion. “Ser Criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from Ser Criston?” Queen Alicent asked one day at court... However it happened, whether the princess scorned the knight or he her, from that day forward the love that Ser Criston Cole had formerly borne for Rhaenyra Targaryen turned to loathing and disdain, and the man who had hitherto been the princess’s constant companion and champion became the most bitter of her foes.

they are both forced into marriages they don’t want to be in-

Dany looked at Khal Drogo. His face was hard and cruel, his eyes as cold and dark as onyx. Her brother hurt her sometimes, when she woke the dragon, but he did not frighten her the way this man frightened her. “I don’t want to be his queen,” she heard herself say in a small, thin voice. “Please, please, Viserys, I don’t want to, I want to go home.”

"No." On her terrace, in her bathing pool, the little fish would nibble at her legs as she soaked. Even they kissed with more fervor than Hizdahr zo Loraq. "I do not love you."

And though His Grace reasoned with her, pleaded with her, shouted at her, and called her an ungrateful daughter, no words of his could budge her…until the king brought up the question of succession. What a king had done, a king could undo, Viserys pointed out. She would wed as he commanded, or he would make her half-brother Aegon his heir in place of her. At this the princess’s will gave way. Septon Eustace says she fell at her father’s knees and begged for his forgiveness, Mushroom that she spat in her father’s face, but both agree that in the end she consented to be married.

and start conflating violence, power, and safety in their minds-

The princess was not slow in answering this charge. She dispatched Prince Daemon to seize Ser Vaemond, had his head removed, and fed his carcass to her dragon, Syrax.

“He would make a monster of me,” she whispered, “a butcher queen.” But then she thought of Drogon far away, and the dragons in the pit. There is blood on my hands too, and on my heart. We are not so different, Daario and I. We are both monsters.

you say for dany her name is a death sentence, but for rhaenyra, being a targaryen is also a death sentence! not to "they very much killed jesus" you here, but they very much kill rhaenyra! if rhaenyra remains a “good targaryen” she is acutely aware she will lose everything, and this is something dany is aware of as well, it's why she reacts so badly to daario's "queens have no purpose but to warm some king’s bed and pop out sons for him" comment about her marriage to Hizdahr. rhaenyra's mother and both grandmothers die before they’re 25 of childbirth. rhaenyra grew up in the same court gael did, that saera did, that viserra did, likely knew the truth of what happened to each girl, and as a woman who is concealing her bastards, all of that has to terrify her. so she stays the “bad woman” the tyrant, the whore, the visenya, in an attempt to protect her children and that gets her killed. being a targaryen has devastating effects on both of them.

as for the differences in how they rule - i’m gonna be honest and say does it matter how they feel if the result is the same?

when they first come into true power, both women are more concerned with getting revenge than they are for settling the unrest-

“How many?” one old woman had asked, sobbing. “How many must you have to spare us?” “One hundred and sixty-three,” she answered. She had them nailed to wooden posts around the plaza, each man pointing at the next. The anger was fierce and hot inside her when she gave the command; it made her feel like an avenging dragon.

...whilst at the Red Keep Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen set about rewarding her friends and inflicting savage punishments on those who had served her half-brother...Henceforth, Celtigar decreed, traitors, rebels, and murderers would be beheaded within the Dragonpit, and their corpses fed to the queen’s dragons. All were welcome to bear witness to the fate that awaited evil men, but each must pay three pennies at the gates to be admitted.

both of them compromise on a stance that is integral to their whole platform-

Dany was shocked. “They want to be slaves?” “The ones who come are well spoken and gently born, sweet queen. Such slaves are prized. In the Free Cities they will be tutors, scribes, bed slaves, even healers and priests. They will sleep in soft beds, eat rich foods, and dwell in manses. Here they have lost all, and live in fear and squalor.” “I see.” Perhaps it was not so shocking, if these tales of Astapor were true. Dany thought a moment. “Any man who wishes to sell himself into slavery may do so. Or woman.” She raised a hand. “But they may not sell their children, nor a man his wife.” “In Astapor the city took a tenth part of the price, each time a slave changed hands,” Missandei told her. “We’ll do the same,” Dany decided. Wars were won with gold as much as swords. “A tenth part. In gold or silver coin, or ivory. Meereen has no need of saffron, cloves, or zorse hides.”

But the Queen’s Hand argued against this, for both girls had younger brothers. Rhaenyra’s own claim to the Iron Throne was a special case, the Sea Snake insisted; her father had named her as his heir. Lords Rosby and Stokeworth had done no such thing. Disinheriting their sons in favor of their daughters would overturn centuries of law and precedent, and call into question the rights of scores of other lords throughout Westeros whose own claims might be seen as inferior to those of elder sisters. It was fear of losing the support of such lords, Munkun asserts in True Telling, that led the queen to decide in favor of Lord Corlys rather than Prince Daemon.

both of them act vindictively and violently towards a low born woman in conjunction with stupid behavior from the violent men they’ve been groomed into loving-

Forgive me, sun of my life, she thought. Forgive me for all I have done and all I must do. I paid the price, my star, but it was too high, too high… “I thank you, Mirri Maz Duur,” she said, “for the lessons you have taught me.” “You will not hear me scream,” Mirri responded as the oil dripped from her hair and soaked her clothing. “I will,” Dany said, “but it is not your screams I want, only your life. I remember what you told me. Only death can pay for life.”

In a voice as cold as ice, she commanded Ser Luthor Largent to take twenty gold cloaks to the Dragonpit and arrest Ser Addam Velaryon. “Question him sharply, and we will learn if he is true or false, beyond a doubt.” As to the girl Nettles, “She is a common thing, with the stink of sorcery upon her,” the queen declared. “My prince would ne’er lay with such a low creature. You need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon’s blood in her. It was with spells that she bound a dragon to her, and she has done the same with my lord husband.”

and I do think there is some similarity in the way that Dany sacks Astapor and it turns into a nightmareish ruin, and Rhaenyra lets KL fall into ruin as well.

you say rhaenyra doesn’t care about the common people but we don’t get her thoughts nor do we get the thoughts of a single person who is willing to tell the truth about her. both of our reliable sources hate her and mushroom is actively concealing things. we know dany cares about the smallfolk because we get her horror over drogon killing a child - only for her to forget that child’s name and decide the cost of her war doesn’t matter so much as taking her throne. this is the exact same moral justification rhaenyra is making - the safety of the people of KL are an acceptable compromise for her own throne.

what both of them want is less about the crown and more about what it represents to them. for dany, it’s home, belonging, love, safety, the simplicity of her life when it was just her, a viserys who had yet to lose his mind, and an aging ser willem darry. for rhaenyra, it’s the exact same - the simplicity of her life before aegon was born & her mother died, the love in her father choosing her over the men around him, the safety of her children. Both of them reach for violence to achieve those ends because they’ve been taught through a life of violence - albeit different sorts of violence - that force is the only way to protect yourself. And since Rhaenyra ultimately fails in her goal, I believe Daenerys will fail as well. Whether she’s smart enough to pull a Nettles and disappear (disappear not spread more violence ~liberating~ places that are not asking for her help or cultural arrogance) or if she, like Rhaenyra, will find that when she’s reached her limit, when she’s finally and truly lost, the door she thought she left open to escape through has been slammed shut behind her-

But it was not the plains Dany saw then. It was King's Landing and the great Red Keep that Aegon the Conqueror had built. It was Dragonstone where she had been born. In her mind's eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window. In her mind's eye, all the doors were red.

#also i am being serious thanks for not being an asshole or talking down to me anon i appreciate it. we can disagree without being jerks!#anti daenerys targaryen #anti rhaenyra targaryen #asks #anons #rani attempts meta #also i’m tagging this with anti tags but if anyone starts shitting on either of them in the notes i’m deleting your comment #once again i’m not talking about bs fandom wars i’m talking about The Themes & the way violence shapes & breaks these two women.#so if people are tacky i will be upset. like if people started joking about cersei or alicent's rape. i'm talking about a sad thing here #trust i am not being facetious or saying i think they're evil. they're set up to fail but they both prove that in failing #they are in fact the dragon's heir. capable of everything the men around them are. whether those men like it or not.

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whitedragonwolf4961 · 7 months

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Every time I get a reminder of that wretched season I like imagining doing this to D&D the lazy sloppy hacks. And also to those dumb idiots who say Dany “is going mad in the books and it’s gonna make sense��. I see too many of those comments and honestly? Those people are as stupid as the ones Tuco Salamanca calls “biznatch”

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #anti d&d #fuck the show ending #fuck d&d #they ruined jon and arya’s relationship and their characters #anti anti dany #anti dany bs #to all the idiots saying she’s gonna go mad in the books #and that it made sense and was just rushed #one word for you:#BIZNATCH

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throwawayasoiafaccount · 1 year

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to sansa stans, take this post as an opinion from the other side, not as character hate or hate towards the OP. also, i didn’t post the name of the OP because i don’t want them to get any backlash in case a lot of people end up seeing this. (long post in coming…)

wrong. OP’s opinion of the other side is incorrect and a bit offensive at that. i used to like sansa, now i am indifferent to her because of sansa stans.

to continue on, yes… sansa does develop internally… just like all the other characters ???? (doesn’t everyone develop internally…?) the difference between sansa and other characters is that she is a pawn—meaning she is led around by the big players—develops slowly, and through her POV, grrm tries to give us insight into what these big players—littlefinger and the tyrells—are doing without spoiling anything. this is why sansa has such slow development. grrm couldn’t have her grow because if she started trying to play the game, she would’ve gotten herself killed because she would be a novice or some of the big players political machinations would’ve had to have been revealed by grrm to keep up with sansa’s development. the tyrells and littlefinger need to stay mysterious for the plot.

if anything, sansa’s slow character growth is a testament to how amazing an author grrm is. he also does an amazing job writing quick character growth.

furthermore, the character who actually bores people is bran due to his long and tedious chapters—but people like bran, do they not? is it because he’s a boy and not a girl? is the like for bran, who i’ve established as a male character who bores people, then rooted in misogynistic double standards based on your analysis? i don’t think so. if anything, there are those who are indifferent to him, those who find him sweet but on a dangerous path, or those who come up with headcanons where he’s going to take over hodor and rape meera. there are shitty theories out there for every character because people all have different perspectives on the books. but from what i’ve seen, the dislike of sansa is not rooted in hatred or contempt for her character just because she was annoying once or because people find her boring. now, if i want to get radical, the horrible headcanon where bran uses hodor to rape meera is rooted in ableism. why? because why does bran need to use an able body to rape meera? (this sounds so wrong). why couldn’t meera like bran for bran? why couldn’t they have consensual sex? (WHEN THEY ARE OLDER). is it because the person who came up with this theory is ableist and can’t imagine anyone falling for someone who can’t walk? so then the only way bran and meera could have a sexual relationship is where bran (who’s very innocent) commits a horrible wrong against the girl he has a sweet crush on? let that sink in. horrible theories rooted in discrimination are everywhere.

additionally, a character who really does inspire violent hatred is dany. now, because i’m not trying to make blanket statements, i come with a specific example. the whole dany is going to burn down kings landing thing is rooted in misogyny and contempt for her character—and it also makes no sense whatsoever when you have both cersei and jon con in westeros on a crash course. cersei has sooooo many aerys parallels and jon con is going into that tywin lannister mindset—aka he thinks he should’ve burnt the town to the ground to find robert baratheon. it’s gonna be the sack of kings landing 2.0, but it’s going to be even more devastating this time. when you look at things this way—why are people so sure that dany will be the one to do it? it’s actual misogyny. dany is a woman in power—a young girl at that—who’s much more powerful then the men in the asoiaf universe. she’s taking on a corrupt system, she openly had a lover, and is a she-king. you know what, i bet if dany was a guy then people would absolutely adore her and ship sansa with her. double standards galore right here.

moreover, saying things like, “misogynistic double standards or indifference with which she [sansa] is discussed,” is a blanket statement if i’ve ever heard one. it’s also one that is not true. there are many reasons as to why people criticize sansa without being misogynistic in their posts/discussions—people like the OP are just taking criticisms of sansa out to be something they’re usually not (i’m sure there are misogynistic antis, but saying they represent a whole group is just bs). and dude, it’s perfectly acceptable for people to be indifferent to characters. in the first paragraph OP went off and said that it’s okay for characters [sansa] “not being someone’s cup of tea,” which is something that i agree with, but then OP did a 180 and put indifference and misogynistic in the same sentence, equating them on the same level, like ???? chose an opinion, stop being wishy-washy.

continuing on with my obnoxious nitpicking lol, “people try to justify disliking her at the same level as the true villains of the series or other morally ambiguous leads.” one, she’s not a lead, two, do you know what morally ambiguous actually means in the context of calling some of the actual leads this? the leads may make some morally ambiguous decisions, but this does not make their actual characters morally ambiguous. three, i do not understand why people dislike sansa more than the actual villains, but it may be because her stans are out of control and have some of the worst headcanons i’ve ever seen—an example being queen in the north sansa, something that is not supported by the text (Lady is her direwolf, not Nymeria, and she’s not a she-king like dany). four, sansa is classist and she does have internalized misogyny. she has many prejudices that will likely be worked on in the next book as she’s forced to grow (the winds of winter are blowing, every character will be getting darker in the next book). five, she is a liar at times, but so is every character, and the OP seems to be trying to equate “liar” with “classist” and “internalized misogynist” by putting these three in the same sentence. they’re not the same at all.

and the problem with the final sentence of OP’s response is that sansa has not grown significantly. she just hasn’t. i stated earlier in this post that this is because grrm needed her to stay stagnated, and i stick by my opinion, but this doesn’t change the fact that she’s still thinking classist/misogynistic thoughts about mya stone and other characters.

opposite of this stagnation is significant growth. i also stand by my statement that grrm is good at writing this as well. significant growth is when jon snow realizes that he was being a bully to the other recruits and firstly stops his behavior, and then secondly tries to befriend them and thirdly helps them out with their training. the only trait you listed (classist, liar, internalized misogynist) that can still be applied to jon is that he’s a liar. however, like i stated before, everyone lies in asoiaf. and lying is necessary. but equating lying with classist and internalized misogynist makes it seem like lying is outright bad and that anti-sansa asoiaf fans are criticizing sansa for something as necessary as lying. jon snow quickly got over his classism and realized his mistakes, which is quick character growth. (there are some times that he makes snide remarks or has bad thoughts towards women… but internalized misogyny does not apply to him because… well… he’s not a woman *shrugs.* i also wouldn’t agree with saying he’s a misogynist. he does have prejudice towards women who sit in towers and wait to be saved, but this is likely due to catelyn’s ice eyed glare and septa mordane. also, he never brings these prejudices out in the open, meaning he doesn’t discriminate against these women).

i bet a counter argument some people would try to make is that sansa doesn’t know better and has been raised this way or that and that this is the reason she exhibits these behaviors, just like jon, she can’t help how she was raised and needs someone to explain to her why her prejudices are wrong; this is a very bad argument because it ignores the fact that none of sansa’s other siblings have classist beliefs and arya doesn’t have internalized misogyny. bran and robb do not exhibit any prejudice towards women either, likely because they didn’t have catelyn giving them ice eyes everyday. now, on the thought of sansa’s other siblings, saying that arya was exhibiting “classist” behaviors or “internalized misogynistic” behaviors in the beginning is so wrong that i wanna laugh. does no one remember aryas, “the woman is important too,” quote, or remember aryas nickname? aka arya underfoot? lmao. i need receipts cause this ain’t checking out.

i can’t believe that alicent was compared to sansa under the asoiaf tag. contrary to show alicent, book alicent is not the same. show alicent is totally watered down and this takes away her agency. she was made into a mary sue, and to be honest, this kinda ticks me off. surely this was to make the greens more sympathetic, but it takes away her culpability. she was nasty in the books. truly a “classist,” a “liar,” and an “internalized misogynist” based on her attitude towards rhaenyra. actually… all three of those traits can be applied to show alicent as well now that i think about it but it’s much more subtle and her lessened agency makes it harder to spot at times. (also i haven’t finished HotD).

and really, tyrion hate? really? there’s a double standard for tyrion if there’s a double standard for anything in this fandom. he does some horrible things, i’m not denying this, but why is it so hard for people to understand that right now he is NOT mentally stable, which is in no part his own fault. he’s not a villain in asoiaf. he needs help and hope.

finally, to answer the ask, i also do not agree with those who call sansa a villain. she is not similar to viserys, the hound, or janos slynt in any way. but i also haven’t seen the post saying that about her, so clearly it wasn’t very popular. this further supports my claim that these people do not represent the whole group of antis.

now, who does sansa abuse? well, she’s verbally abusive to arya. but that’s the only thing i can think of. siblings can be horrible. generally horrible. from personal experience i know that sometimes young kids are just nasty because they don’t understand why their behavior is so wrong—and with the societal enforcement of sansa’s beliefs, of course she wouldn’t think that what she’s doing is wrong. taking this to the real world, other people who have maybe experienced this type of abuse by a sibling may not be very understanding of sansa. this type of stuff can trigger people. and it’s also hard to be understanding towards sansa when she thinks stuff like wishing margaery was her sister instead of arya. until she has development, many people will greatly dislike her for her attitude towards her sister who she bullied (an example being horseface remarks). bullying is abuse; we usually just use bullying to identify abuse that takes place in a school between children of a similar age.

regarding the previous passage, a pet peeve of mine is the: “you’ve clearly never had a sibling” argument some fans try to make in order to lessen aryas abuse. it hits too close to home at times and makes me sneer at some people’s ignorance. dany and arya were both abused by their siblings and are finally able to grow as people now that they’re not under viserys thumb and sansa’s shadow. the same applies to jon. he’s no longer under catelyn’s nasty glare so he can finally grow. catelyn and sansa were not nearly as bad as viserys, but the abuse is still there and shouldn’t be taken lightly.

to be honest, i think most sansa-antis are just annoyed that sansa stan’s ruin other characters to fit them into their headcanons, steal other characters themes, or bash the female characters they see as rivals to sansa—aka dany and arya. i truly doubt the whole group actually hates her character and are just annoyed with her stans—i bet once she starts to grow, more of these antis will become indifferent to her. i stated before that she’s very stagnant right now, and many people are not happy with some of the things she’s done and the fact that grrm hasn’t had her learn from her mistakes—lemon cake… her opinion towards mya stone… and the whole sweet sleep debacle. honestly, i may be optimistic in my opinion that grrm will have her grow drastically in the next book. and if she doesn’t end up realizing the wrongness of her prejudices then my opinion of her character will lower significantly.

the point of this post? stop calling whole groups of people misogynistic because they don’t share your opinion.

#asoiaf #anti sansa stans #jon snow #daenerys targeryan #bran stark #arya stark #feeling indifferent towards sansa #i blame the stans and their bs #stop with the whole catelyn wasn’t an abuser shit #stop calling whole groups misogynistic

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jessescatorccio · 2 years

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someone commented on my recent dany post saying she was genocidal. just out of curiosity I check out their blog and what do you know…a sansa stan whose blog mostly consists of anti dany posts. if you don’t want to see pro dany stuff perhaps don’t troll the “daenerys defense squad” tag. instant block

#asoiaf bs continues #anti got #daenerys targaryen #pro daenerys

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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 6 months

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I'm so tired of Rhaenyra antis saying that Rhaenyra wouldn't like Daenerys as a reason why we shouldn't like Rhaenyra or the Blacks. It's such a pointless argument because there's no fucking reason why she wouldn't love Dany. Rhaenyra loved Visenya, even named her daughter after her, so why wouldn't she love Dany, who was also a warrior queen? Next, Rhaenyra would totally admire Dany's goal of reclaiming the Iron Throne, after all, Rhaenyra and her family were also usurped. Also Dany literally brought dragons back into the world, that alone would make Rhaenyra love and respect her!

Some people might try to argue Rhaenyra wouldn't like Dany trying to end the slave trade, and I say to that: where the fuck did they get that idea?? Rhaenyra was born and raised in Westeros, a place where slavery has been outlawed for a while, why would she care about the slave trade in Essos? Sure we don't get anti-slavery tirades from Rhaenyra, but we don't get those from literally anyone in the books except Dany! The closest we get is Ned exiling Jorah for selling slaves, does that mean everyone else in Westeros is against Dany's slave rebellion? No!

In conclusion: Rhaenyra would have loved Dany because, not only is she her descendant, she is the Mother of Dragons, a warrior, a ruling queen, a conqueror, and a fucking awesome woman. Fuck all TG's anti-Rhaenyra bs.

#anti team green #rhaenyra targaryen #daenerys targaryen #house of the dragon #asoiaf #team black #anti rhaenyra antis #anti dany antis #not even mentioning all their shared trauma

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lilith-91 · 4 months

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Daenerys and Rhaegar haters, how does it feel to always be loud and wrong? 🤔 That's not an easy accomplishment

You are so uncreative and unfunny bruh

How long will y'all come up with broken record bs? every single Rhaegar and Dany anti repeats the same nonsense, its a pattern trained bot

Try new fresh takes like "they killed my grandmother" or "they beat little kittens" at least the discussions are gonna be interesting again

#asoiaf #rhaegar targaryen #daenerys targaryen #house targaryen #anti asoiaf fandom

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fromtheseventhhell · 8 months

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it’s honestly disgusting how so many people will defend mirri maz duur forcing an abortion on a 13 year old dany as if forced abortion isn’t a very real reproductive rights issue that affects tons of women in the real world, like seeing people defend or make light of that is genuinely so gross

What gets me is that they'll defend her actions but they're too cowardly to talk about what exactly Mirri did to Dany. They tip-toe around the fact that she forced a painful abortion onto Dany, for a child she wanted, by tricking her into believing that she could heal Drogo. Truthfully I would've had no issue if she had only murdered Drogo but she didn't stop there. And then her being a slave is supposed to excuse everything but then they ignore that Dany was a bridal slave and her being sold to Drogo is mentioned several times throughout the story. From George's own words, Dany didn't have the authority to stop the Dothraki from taking slaves. The only thing she could do to intervene was take them as her personal slaves and offer them some protection. They use Dany's lack of agency to justify Mirri harming her and it's so nasty.

#ask #anon #daenerys targaryen #anti daenerys bs #/she could've freed them/ as per George no she couldn't have!#and Drogo's Khalasar wasn't even responsible for the initial attack but Dany antis ignore that #cause their only motivation is to hate her they don't care about Mirri outside of that

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thesilverlady · 6 months

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how much do you want to bet that they will turn Aerion brightflame into a sad poor boy who get bullied by Egg and mistreated by his family?

targ men have their easiest time in this fandom 'cause you see a terrible one (which is interesting!) and yet someone will come up that he had a trauma or something and suddenly he's "deep" and "complex"

Meanwhile a female Targaryen dares to no be humble, with head down and only passive and she's automatically be problematic and villainize sk

I'll admit I haven't read the Dunk & Egg books (mostly due to lack of time and now I'm really not feeling up to if it's gonna be adapted) but I know the basics about the characters.

On the one hand they might use aerion for their "all targs are mad" agenda - which is equally bad in my opinion. And doesn't Aegon v have a bunch of parallels with Dany?

Dunno, he might get lucky because due to the gender and come off as the "male better version of daenerys" OR they might attempt some s8 foreshadowing and make him arrogant?

it really depends with which side they'll lean. Underlining misogyny; magically have the male characters being amazingly written? Anti-targness; all Targaryens suck in a different way but here my fav has trauma so he sucks a bit less. GoT obsessed; find some annoy way to drop the prince that was promised because we'll never be free and try to foreshadow the bs that won't happen until hundred of years

#ask reply #anti hotd #<- using this tag because the series don't have a tag yet #anyways who knows they might have some miracle and make it good but I'm not expecting anything anymore #I don't even know if I'll watch it. I don't know if I can handle any more targ bashing I swear #I only pray the conquerors are left untouched - cause the brain dead takes I've seen about them are bad enough

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 2 months

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Some things to note for this blog

I should have put this up sooner but honestly, I didn't think I needed to, until now. Everything below the cut.

GoT

When I post anything GoT-related, I am talking about the showverse only. This is why I do not include "asoiaf" in the tags of each post. While using the same characters and universe that GRRM created in ASOIAF, Game of Thrones is an adaptation. Which is why we don't see characters like Lady Stoneheart, Val, Gryff, or Dacey Mormont. (I know most of us know this already but I feel the point needs to be reiterated for some...certain stan groups in particular) Same goes for House of the Dragon.

I do post about Daenerys (and will continue to) and I can be critical of her but I still love her. She is actually one of my favorite characters in the show. But while I consider myself a fan of hers, I don't stan her blindly and I can see the mistakes she's made. I will call out her bad behavior while still maintaining my love for the character. I appreciate her dark turn because of the fact that she, as a woman, got to have that arc and make her own choices. It's incredible storytelling that was layered in since season 1 (though the execution of it in the end was botched here and there). Same thing goes for the Targaryens. For example, while I might not be a fan of Daemon, I do appreciate his character and Matt Smith's portrayal.

If I see any ridiculous Dany stan or anti Sansa bs in my travels on here, I'm calling it out. Not specifically to the individual(s), I don't do that, but I do respond to ridiculous claims made about characters, their story arcs, the writing, fandom bs, and the show in general.

SPN

I do love SPN but I am very critical of the series finale. But while being critical of it, I can understand why some decisions were made behind the scenes and it is what it is. It doesn't mean I don't hope that a reboot or continuation down the line won't attempt to fix the mistakes that were made (imho Dean's appearance in the finale of The Winchesters already started that ball rolling in a way).

I have been critical of the Wincest pairing in the past but that has been more about some of the behavior of the shippers rather than about the ship itself. I've also listed why I don't feel comfortable with the ship itself but I also have the attitude of ship-and-let-ship. So I'm not attacking the ship but just stating why I don't care for it while also challenging some of the shippers' assertions of how the show was intentionally going that way for the brothers all along as well as their misunderstandings of Dean and Sam's actual familial relationship.

I am anti John Winchester and will forever be. Any posts I make on this subject is not criticism of Jeffrey Dean Morgan or his portrayal of the character. This is not challenging Jeffrey Dean Morgan's or Jensen Ackles' opinions of the character, but sometimes can be a respectful disagreement (meaning I have a different school of thought on the matter for those who aren't able to grasp this everyday life concept). This doesn't mean I don't acknowledge Dean's, Sam's, and Mary's love for John. While I agree with JDM and Jensen that John did the best he could in that time, he absolutely could have done better and had many opportunities to. Not to mention what was implied that was right underneath the surface of the story the whole time and how it was confirmed starting in season 12.

Imho, the idea of Destiel went canon in the show, not the pairing itself. We only saw Cas' confirmation of his feelings and how it all connected back to Cas' own story line over the years. By Dean not having time to respond one way or the other, I believe the show intended to keep that open-ended and ambiguous. So people can still speculate on his feelings should they so choose (personally, I think Cas was extremely important to Dean, more important than antis feel comfortable acknowledging which is why they consistently do their best to undermine the 15x18 moment and attack anyone who asserts that Destiel is canon).

I am very much pro-Dean (not a stan but a huge fan), pro-Winchesters 2.0 (Dean, Sam, Cas & Jack) or TFW 2.0, pro-Jack, pro-Jack and Cas as family to both Sam and Dean. My posts will usually operate from this stance.

If I see any ridiculous anti Dean, anti Destiel bs, pro-toxic codependency bs in my travels on here, I'm calling it out. Not specifically to the individual(s), I don't do that, but I do respond to ridiculous claims made about characters, their story arcs, the writing, fandom bs, and the show in general.

The Winchesters

I am very critical of The Winchesters but it is not personal criticism of Jensen or Danneel Ackles. I am not critical of it for the sake of being critical or fandom drama; I am looking at it through the same critical storytelling eye I look at everything else. I focus on the story and not anything beyond that. Whatever feuds the fandom drama queens believe are going on between Jensen and Jared, Danneel and Genevieve, Jared and Misha, etc, I am not engaging in any of that nor am I going to allow it to taint my perspective as a viewer.

911

While I have been critical of certain relationships for Buck and Eddie (like BuckTaylor, BuckAli, EddieAna, or EddieShannon for example), I am not completely critical of the female characters themselves nor am I anti them (their characters all served a purpose in the story). Except Abby and that was due to her severe mishandling of Buck. But even then, as long as she stays far away from Buck, I'm good with her and hope she finds her own happiness.

I still believe in the possibility of Buddie but I will admit that the season 6 finale left me dumbfounded, even knowing what was happening bts. So I have not posted as much for this pairing or fandom because I'm waiting to see how season 7 will go.

Speaking of which, I am very critical of the writing of the last two episodes of season 6 especially, not just for Buddie but all of the other characters and relationships as well.

Big Sky

I am very critical of the writing of the last season as well as the push the show made for a certain pairing to happen (Beau x Jenny). It is not criticism of Jensen Ackles or of Katheryn Winnick (I am a fan of both), nor is it criticism of the characters Beau Arlen or Jenny Hoyt (I also love both). I honestly believe Jenny's (and Cassie's) character got shafted in the last season as a bid to stay on the air by the showrunner. And I am very critical of that showrunner and some of the decisions he made that I think sunk the show the final inch over the edge into oblivion.

Celebrities/Actors

While I am a fan of Jensen Ackles's career and try to be supportive, this is not a stan blog. I will not be posting about Jensen's personal exploits (outside of FBBC and a social media post here and there possibly), any gossip/rumors surrounding Jensen, anything about his marriage to Danneel, etc.

I will not be posting anything about Danneel Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, etc.

I only post about people I admire and it's usually in relation to their acting and/or portrayals, or directing (like Miguel Sapochnik for example). I appreciate talent where I see it.

#blog info #never thought i'd post one of these but here we are

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