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engie-the-profit · 10 months

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worst popular infinite headcanon?

oh my. this one got long so im going to spare peoples dashes by putting this under a cut haha

anyways my answer is: making him out to be a little crybaby who is driven purely by revenge and sadness to make the world pay for shadow killing his squad mates, whom he loved in a normal way and saw them as family or whatever. it makes his character so goddamn flat and boring bc thats such a standard villain motivation, and it entirely strips away a lot of his personality even when theres already so little to work with LMAO

i know ive spoken about it at length in the dog&hog server but to me, infinites most notable trait is that hes selfish

in the prequel comic rise of infinite (yay, prequel comic talk. everyones favourite, i know) he deliberately ignores any protests from his gang against accepting eggmans deal of working with him, because eggy singles him out and offers him a place at his side to bring his fantasy of ruin into reality. not infinite and his crew, just infinite

(image has two comic panels. in the first one, eggman is reaching a hand out to infinite as he says "now you are an interesting guy. i like you. how about i hire you to lead my forces? together we'll take over the world!" in the second panel, one of the jackal squad members says "boss! dont be tempted by him. we'll be fine!")

and infinite says yes after briefly talking about how he personally feels bored and tired of how the world is right now

(image has two panels. in the first, infinite is mumbling to himself, first laughing and then saying "interesting. all this time ive been going through the motions. ive actually grown quite tired of the world as it is." in the second panel he stands and says "lets do it doctor! i'll help you change this world!")

again, its a decision based off an entirely personal and individualistic opinion that only takes his own feelings into account. you would think that if he valued his squad to the extent that they were "like family" to him, he would have listened when they said he shouldnt make a deal with eggman. if he actually cared about them as much as he cared about himself, he would have trusted them enough to say no. instead he only thinks about what he wants and what he can get, not about what will happen to the others

ive always been of the opinion that infinite used his squad and position of authority as their leader to prop himself up and viewed them more like underlings or subjects that he could order around and be superior to, rather than equals whose opinions and input he valued. maybe he started out having more camaraderie with the other jackals, but it certainly doesnt show by the time we get to the events of the prequel comic, and even less so when we get to episode shadow/the main game

the idea that he saw his squad more like tools to make himself look better than people also makes more sense because when in episode shadow, eggman calls infinites squad "useless" directly to him and all infinite says is "yeah, yeah" in a very uncaring fashion. even when he then spots shadow and says "you.. you destroyed my squad!" its entirely unconvincing to me that he said it out of sorrow or sadness; to me it was more like simple anger that it happened. because now without his little group of followers that looked up to him and did whatever he told them to, he had nobody to feel superior to. he couldnt go on any more power trips by being The Boss bc there was nobody left to indulge him, no one to stoke his ego, nobody to be the boss of. so thats why he felt slighted by shadow in the first place; how dare this hedgehog take away what made him feel special and important. and then of course the ensuing humiliation that came afterward was just the icing on the shit cake haha

it also explains why infinite never brings up his squad in any of his monologues (besides the prequel comics and episode shadow being obvious afterthoughts to the main game loool); he just doesnt care. if anything, their loss was his gain bc it pushed him towards acquiring the phantom ruby and getting to go on the ultimate power trip of world domination and near total subjugation of the population. i think that also ties into his mindset that friends make you weak and you cant rely on anyone but yourself; in his case, thats literally true. if he hadnt lost his squad, if he had initially listened to them, the chain of events we know well would not have come to pass and he would not have gotten to become the powerhouse he did. he would have still been leading his monotonous life and following the same old script. from his perspective they really did hold him back, and only once they were gone was he able to become stronger. he reiterates this by thanking shadow in the dlc for doing what he did in mystic jungle (killing the jackal squad and kicking infinites ass) bc otherwise he wouldnt have gotten the incentive he needed to take on the mantle of becoming a super powered weapon

and if you want some more evidence thats admittedly a lot more of a stretch, you could also interpret infinite creating a posse of past sonic foes as him filling the void of using the jackal squad that was created after shadow had taken them down. he gets to control people again (even if theyre clones that had no choice but to obey him but nyeh i told you it was a stretch), he gets to be a leader again

idk, i just think that having a sob story as a main motivation is (funny joke here) weak. i have never once thought that infinite needs to have some kind of sympathetic or tragic backstory. and maybe thats just my own personal bias coming through bc i prefer villains that are evil for reasons like their moral philosophies or have some kind of goal that makes the audience go "maybe they do have a point tbh" and villains that are just evil for the sake of it over villains that say "my mom died" as if that is any kind of justifiable explanation. imo it almost always comes off as them making an excuse, and its lame. just own it, yknow?

so yeah if i could block one thing from the minds of infinite fans it would be the hc that infinite was tightly knit with the jackals and wanted what was best for them. bc with all the evidence ive seen, its not supported at all, and hes actually the exact opposite; he does what he wants and uses who he wants for his own purposes and gain

also yes i do think shadow straight up killed the other jackals and i do think thats in character for him but thats a conversation for another day

#he said ask #bitter-sweet-coffee #engie.txt #infinite the jackal #sonic forces #sth #jackal squad #as with every opinion i have #remember that this is just that. an opinion #idc what anyone else does #if you want infinite to sob over losing his besties then fine #but dont act like its the most reasonable and backed up interpretation of canon #bc the evidence simply isnt there #im more than happy to enjoy canon all by myself #sitting alone in my i-love-respecting-canon corner

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athenaspeculiardaughter · 6 months

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i had too many just to put in the comments. i dont know how much you wanted so... thats on you.

jason loves heavy metal and plays the drums. he's also gay and in a qpr with leo and piper. hes got a wolf cut and still has some of his wolf-like tendencies, having adopted them from living with lupa at a young age. when he went to camp jupiter, those tendencies dissapeared over time, people telling him that it wasnt normal to eat raw meat or chew on things. but he never quite learned to smile with teeth when he was happy, and growls when hes mad. also i think he has a peircing somewhere. and i think he used to be super jacked, like shredded unhealthy jacked, but when he went to college he had less time to work out and he got some fat around his muscles and he loves it so much, and he looks a lot cuter this way.

leo is aroace possibly gay as well, and loves 80s music, like huey lewis and the news, some billy joel, and some dire straits. he also is obsessed with back to the future (his fave is the cowboy one, bc of his texan roots). on him being from texas, i think he has a little bit of a texas accent, just bc he was mostly raised by foster families in the south. he used to have a spanish accent, but it faded after having spent so little time speaking spanish and being around spanish speaking people. i think he totally wouldve been a band kid except he never had the time and the time passed a long time ago.

piper has lots of peircings, her newest one is snake bites and she always has smudged eyeliner. she likes the cure and is kind of goth. shes a lesbian, but, again, in a qpr with jason and leo and says theyre the only guys she thinks are hot. she loved heathers and totally had a crush on winona ryder. she had an ed bc of how exposed she was to hollywood culture, but shes working on it. she has a tooth gap and an indigenous nose. she has this really loud pretty laugh and she loves to dance.

annabeth listens to arctic monkeys 24/7. shes unlabeled and strictly wears jeans. no jewelry besides her necklace, not even her ears are peirced. she forgets to eat, but only because she gets so engrossed in her work, and percy has to bring her food. at that point its pretty easy, if percy just puts the plate next to her she'll absentmindedly eat it, same with a cup of water. she's got lots of band tshirts too, a lot of them stolen from percy.

percy is a skater boy. he wears baggy band tshirts and sweats or jeans and a couple necklaces and peircings. i think he has an eyebrow peircing and was really tempted to get cheek peircings before realizing that then he would have holes in his cheeks and that fucked with his brain too much to get them. he also wears eyeliner but likes doing annabeths makeup more than his, which he gets to do often, since she could never refuse his puppy eyes. hes got lots of sea animal stuffed animals on his bed instead of pillows. he wore a skirt once and wasnt opposed to them, but eventually decided it wasnt worth flashing people. in the summer he is a strictly no shoes no socks man, can only find him barefoot or with sandals.

hazel is short. thats canon ik but its important. she likes softer music like sleeping at last and music like tori amos. she also likes astronomy and stargazing, and youd think she believes in astrology but she thinks its all bullshit. she likes drawing objects like theyre sentient, not humanoid, but she makes them feel alive, like creatures. she loves stuffed animals too, and is in the process of learning the viola. she still uses old fashipned words (canon) but curses like a sailor and has very modern views for someone born in the 30s.

frank never loses his fat. hes still fat, i hate that they made him all buff like it was a part of his character arc to lose weight. frank is a theater kid. thank you for coming to my ted talk. he likes graphic novels like amulet and nimona, etc. he has a really infectious smile, wide, dimpled and too cute. again, theater kid, though i dont think he can sing very well, but he has fun trying.

i think thats most of it. honestly i got really caught up in it and made up some stuff along the way. if you dont like any of it thats fine:)

Honestly your headcanons are really interesting I never thought about 3/4 of them and I actually like them😄

#riodanverse #rick riordan #percy jackson #annabeth chase #frank zhang #hazel levesque #piper mclean #jason grace #leo valdez

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warriorofthesky · 10 months

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more unhinged destiny theories. i'm sorry in advance.

if we assume that:

*puts tinfoil hat on*

(this is long. oops?)

the winnower as a being exists

the veil is the winnower or at least a way to commune with the winnower

the winnower "convinced" the witness that light is bad bc it is too chaotic by giving it a probably biased version of the creation of the universe (the unveiling)

the traveler didn't garden before the witness. the witness' people was the first civilization it uplifted

we can maybe theorize that:

the veil and the traveler were damaged/diminished because they had just left the "garden" and were thrown into the universe they created without much thought/intention

this damage manifested in what defines light and dark now: the winnower was reduced to memory, emotion, consciousness - the veil has no mass, apparently isn't capable of movement, it's just a big disco with a lot of thoughts, etc - and the traveler lost much of its own consciousness, becoming a force of physical change and growth

the universe was created but the winnower & gardener were crippled, incapable of actively interfering in it

until the witness' people found the traveler. i find it interesting that the traveler was buried and rose as the witness' people rose. maybe there was some sort of exchange going on there? i don't know, but anyway it isn't necessary. the traveler finally started interfering into the universe/affecting the flower game

... but then the witness got an existential crisis and found the veil aka the winnower who, through the witness, finally got the opportunity to interfere with the universe as well. see list of assumptions: the winnower started said interference by convincing the witness that the traveler was too dangerous bc the light was too chaotic. the winnower's goal is to go back to the final shape they had in the garden, and that can only happen if the traveler isn't allowed to interfere any longer

the witness, under the winnower's influence, wants to link the veil with the traveler bc it thinks this will allow them (they were still a people at this point) to rewrite reality into the final shape the veil/winnower showed them.

that's where i think the winnower & witness' goals might differ. every time the winnower talks to us (or to oryx or anyone else) it doesn't seem to want the universe to not exist. the witness has very "no death no life i want nothing to exist ever" vibe. the winnower is the sword logic. the witness is nihilism.

either way, i think the winnower is using the witness and once it has more power it will have no use for the witness anymore.

but also:

maya sundaresh heard the veil tell her its name in her own voice. that could be the winnower, once again trying to corrupt someone else into believing its story. this is what chioma says about maya & the veil:

she's convinced this thing - in her own words, she says - it'll be our "salvation."

which of course its what the witness says it is when it talks to us in shadowkeep. also the children of sol cry out for salvation yadda yadda

this could be them both (the witness & maya) drinking from the same source aka the winnower. the winnower could be tempting maya the same way it tempted the witness.

i also need to point out that maya was more or less on her way to creating a network of human minds... the witness ended up as collective consciousness merged into one being... the darkness is emotion, consciousness, memory... *wiggles eyebrows*

the unveiling could just be the witness passing on the winnower's message or the winnower itself trying to tempt us too. the unveiling has a certain "believe me, im right and you could be right too!!" vibe to it.

i think this theory is interesting because it evokes the garden of eden a lot. which the unveiling already did just by coming up with the concept of a garden before time. this would be just leaning into it a bit more, with the winnower as the snake tempting humanity/the witness.

but

many things in this ^ dont seem to work with the established lore

the sword logic is heavily implied to be nonsense. it's just something the witness used to control the hive & mold them into what it needed to work towards the final shape. the witness itself never mentions anything resembling the sword logic ideology bc it has no interest in it. see how each of its disciple had a different idea of what idea the final shape is, bc the witness told them what they needed to believe to further its goals. the sword logic was what the hive needed to believe. the end.

the latest purpose entry gives more credibility to this ^. xivu arath might mention the sword logic and the final shape as the same thing but the witness never does. it lets her believe it, but we never see it defend the sword logic itself.

the darkness itself is not bad!!! or so the game has been telling us for years now!!! it makes no sense that the darkness entity would just be bad again, after all the trouble they went through to establish the witness as a voice in the darkness and not the darkness itself. why would they make sure we understood that the witness is not bad because it uses the darkness only to make the darkness bad again anyway?

the whole idea of the winnower being a believer/creator of the sword logic makes no sense in a universe where the sword logic is implied to be nonsense.

... which gives a bit more weight to the idea of the witness having created the concept of the winnower.

not exactly the winnower of the unveiling (though this one too) but a winnower. it would see itself as said winnower and also create the winnower the hive/oryx and maybe us needed to believe existed. if the unveiling is a recruitment attempt, its version of the winnower might just be the one the witness thought would tempt us more.

the winnower beyond the veil doesn't exist in this case. or if it does, it's in a very low consciousness/individuality state. it just shows the witness stuff, it does not have an active will.

the witness did see the history of the universe when it communed with the veil and maybe it interpreted it in the wrong way as well, but there was no outside influence to this interpretation. it desperately needed purpose so it made itself one.

that would mean that the unveiling - the garden, the gardener, the winnower - is just propaganda

but not propaganda the witness believes in. the unveiling would not be its people's creation myth, it would be something it came up with to tempt others

but:

what about the voice maya heard? ok, i can understand the veil itself saying it since it is ~the mind and memory of the universe~, so maybe it just has maya in its hard drive by default

but the talk about salvation? this stinks of the witness. if we agree that the winnower - the author of the unveiling, the thing that became the darkness, the big bad behind the witness - does not exist in this way, it makes no sense for it to speak of or influence someone to think about salvation of humankind the way maya says it. the witness is the one who could have talked with maya.

but how would the witness talk to maya through the veil when it had just lost the veil and didn't even know where it was? when it approached the traveler it saw where the veil was and was actually surprised - or expressing emotion, what it usually doesn't do - so it makes no sense that it could have talked with maya through the veil. i mean, i guess it could maybe have just talked with her without knowing where the veil is, but i find that highly unlikely.

trying to mesh these two theories together is... an interesting thought exercise. but let's try:

the winnower as in the unveiling exists. it is either the veil or something beyond the veil.

the unveiling was written by it and it is recruitment propaganda. it did the same with the witness, the hive and even maya. not using the unveiling directly (it seems to just have showed stuff to the witness and talked with maya) but the idea is the same: find people, tempt them, use them to further its own goals.

this means that the witness doesn't necessarily has to believe in the sword logic. in the similar way that the witness gives people what they need to believe so it can use them, the winnower could do the same. the witness needs to believe the final shape is nothing? ok, let it believe it then. lol.

another interesting alternative to the unveiling is that it is written by the witness and that the witness believes it to be nonsense/made up stuff but it isn't. who knows!

the traveler noped out when the witness tried to strengthen its link to the veil because it does not want the universe to be rid of paracausality. the witness might think it would rewrite reality to be nothing, but i'm pretty sure in this case the winnower would just uno reverse card it and rewrite reality to not have paracausality.

now, let's try again in another way:

the winnower as an extremely conscious being does not exist. there is something beyond the veil and it could be the winnower from the unveiling but it is just like the traveler: mostly dormant, like a pond where people can drink from but not something that will reach out in return.

the unveiling was written by the witness as propaganda because it thought it was the best way to tempt us. the witness was the one speaking to oryx as the persona of the winnower aka a believer in the sword logic.

the traveler noped out because it didn't want the witness to rewrite reality into nothingness. the winnower/veil isn't an agent here - it's a tool.

the same way the witness came up with the final shape when it communed with the veil, maya came up with an idea of salvation when it listened to what the veil had to say. again, the veil is not an agent here, it has no intent of corrupting anyone - it has a LOT of information and memory, and both the witness and maya can interpret this information & these memories as they wish. the witness found the final shape aka a purpose. maya (probably) found salvation she wanted for her people.

there is a theme here of people communing with the veil and getting what they want to see from it, not necessarily the truth. it might be a facet of the truth or a warped interpretation of it, but it is not the truth in its purest form.

maybe because mortal beings - or once mortal beings - can't handle it?

i like this one better because it doesn't seem to directly contradict established lore as much. darkness isn't necessarily bad, light isn't necessarily good. both can be used in bad ways (the witness, warlords) and good ways (the ecumene, guardians).

there is an explanation for maya's interaction with veil as a parallel to the witness' interaction with the veil instead of maya speaking to the witness or to the winnower. both - witness and maya - came to the veil for answers and it gave them what they wanted to hear.

it stills leaves a lot open for the future of the franchise - the traveler and the veil are still unexplained, for example. they could be a version of the gardener and winnower from the garden, but they could not. the mystery of why the traveler is diminished even before interacting with the witness' people is still alive and well. we still don't know why it was buried in that planet. or why the veil was chilling in outer space. once we are done with the witness we can turn to these questions - or to something else entirely, who knows.

i guess i can believe this one. the one problem is that the conflict depicted in the unveiling was, in my opinion, much cooler. i guess it can still be true - who knows what the veil might reveal some day, if it really is the equivalent to the winnower of the garden. i mean, something still hurt the traveler. but idk.

it's interesting to note that light and dark as we now it didn't seem to exist in the garden. maybe we will still find out more about these forces if the garden was in any shape real.

but you know what? none of these theories explain this:

Xivu's will soars through the Ascendant Plane and crosses the barrier between this world and the next to find communion with the Witness. Within a distant hollow, they converse.

(from the last entry of the seasonal lore book, purporse)

the next? as in the next world?

what

how would "a next world" fit in *gestures to this mess of a post* this?

what is the witness even doing in whatever-it-is? i mean, apparently it takes a long time to reshape reality. the witness will hang out there for a whole ass year. so what or where or when is there? and why/how is the witness still able to talk with people in this world?

i'm just

i mean i've got ideas

the witness is back in the garden(tm)

or trying to get into it

our universe is just one of many created by the crash between gardener and winnower (WHATEVER THEY ARE) and the witness needs to ascend to the higher universes/worlds to reach the beginning of everything

the tree of silver wings is somehow involved in this, i just don't know how

there has to be a reason why it takes the witness a whole ass year to do what it needs to do but we apparently can chase after it quite fast once the expansion arrives. are we getting a shortcut once the final shape (the expansion, not the end of the universe) is released?

... unless we don't.

take a shortcut i mean.

we don't know what the next seasons will be about. there is nothing set in stone about us entering whatever the hell is on the other side of the portal only when the final shape arrives. we are waking up savathun next season, as far as i know we could be into that portal right then or on the season after that.

season 22: we wake savathun up, she comes up with a plan to get into the portal, we spend 3 months doing just that.

season 23: we enter the portal and now we need to make our way up bc the witness has got a hell of a head start.

the final shape: we reach the garden and now it is time to stop the witness.

profit?

does that mean the traveler is just... part of what the gardener was? since there are a billion worlds/universes, maybe each one has a piece of the gardener (and/or the winnower). this would explain the fragmented state of the the traveler's mind and the... inactivity, i guess, of the veil (if it is the winnower. big if there).

maybe thats why the witness can still communicate with xivu arath. the ascendant plane is just... a layer between us and the next universe and the witness is kind of astral projecting. could also be why it is still worried about us trying to figure out a way into the portal. it doesn't want us trying to race it to the finish once we are in.

or i could be completely insane. that's an option too i guess.

#the witness #the veil #the traveler #destiny 2 #destiny 2 spoilers #spoilers #season of the deep #season of the deep spoilers #ren.txt #i should be sleeping #or writing my crow x guardian fanfic smh #2.7k words of nonsense yall are welcome!!!!!!!!!!!#ren.wtf

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