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supercantaloupe · 1 year

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What is the antisemitism in TUC season 1? Does it have to do with Wally the golem?/gen

[ID: an ask from an anonymous tumblr user that reads "would love to hear more about the antisemitism in unsleeping city! was a while ago that i watched it and can't remember what you might be referencing but definitely want to be aware of it.]

no, it's not about willy the golem -- i actually think willy is a great addition to the season (even if i wish we got to see more of him), and an indication to me that brennan/the showrunners were definitely trying to be sincere and inclusive. i want to make it clear that i don't think anything antisemitic in tuc is there intentionally; i think it's there out of simple ignorance, which is also why i think fans don't frequently see/comment on it either. but i don't think that's an excuse, either.

my grief with tuc1 is largely centered around its portrayal of robert moses as the villain. especially by making him a greedy, power-hungry lich working en league with bloodsucking vampires. (also his mini is literally a green skinned skull man in a suit. yikes.) here's the thing; i know robert moses was a real life horrible person, who actually was racist and powerhungry etc etc. and i know that robert moses, the real actual person, was jewish. my grief with tuc1 is not that they chose to use robert moses over literally any other person (real or fictional) to be their season villain (though i'd be really curious to know what tuc1 would have looked like with a different villain), but that they chose to take a real jewish person, turn them into an antisemitic caricature, and then only barely add other portrayals of judaism to balance that out.

like, tuc isn't completely devoid of other jewish representation. as you mention, there's willy the golem -- and again, i really like willy, and i love that it's a portrayal of a golem that's faithful to jewish folklore (ie as a benevolent, guardian construct rather than a mindless destructive monster. i am not a fan of how 'golem' is so frequently misused as a generic enemy creature in other fantasy and ttrpg spaces, including other seasons of d20). but as i said earlier, i wish we see more of him in the season, because he's not around very much, and feels a little more like worldbuilding than a full character to me. also, he's not human. jews are people.

the only other human jewish character in tuc1 is...stephen sondheim. which, again, yeah, that's a real person who really was jewish. but i really wouldn't blame you if you had no idea of that when watching tuc1. maybe from the name you could guess he might be jewish, but i don't think people ought to make a habit of trying to 'clock' someone being jewish by having a 'jewish-sounding' surname. as he's portrayed in tuc1, you'd never know he's jewish, unless you happen to already be pretty knowledgeable about the man in real life. it's far more likely you'll know him as a theater legend than anything else (may his memory be a blessing).

now i'm not saying that brennan or the showrunners should have played up the jewishness of Real Person Stephen Sondheim to counterbalance the depiction of robert moses; that just feels weird to me, especially considering that sondheim was literally alive when tuc1 was filmed and released. it's a tricky thing to portray real people in fiction alongside made up characters, especially when they are contemporaries, and i don't think 'outright caricature' is the way to go about that. nor do i think that moses' jewishness should have been played up at all, because again i don't think that would have been particularly true to the person/character, and also Fucking Yikes. but, c'mon, if you hear the names 'moses' and 'sondheim' next to each other, which one do you associate more with judaism?

and as it stands, these are the only representations of judaism in tuc1. one admittedly nice but very minor nonhuman character; one human character you'd never be able to tell was jewish; and a third human character who, while never explicitly referenced as jewish, plays into some really hurtful antisemitic stereotyping. and it was a choice to not include anything else. maybe not a deliberate one, probably more likely one made out of simple ignorance than anything else, but a choice nonetheless. in a city with one of the largest and most visibly jewish populations in the country, and a culture that is inextricably influenced by that jewish population. a jewish population which has been and continues the target of rising hate crimes for years. i know that nyc means different things to different people, and everyone's nyc is their own -- but my nyc is jewish, and it sucks that that its jewishness is referenced directly in only one very minor way, which is greatly overshadowed by its, in my view, really insidious indirect references.

i don't know exactly how to go about addressing this. obviously, the show can't be changed by now. even if it could, i think the final product would be very significantly different from what it is now if the villain was something/someone else. i think including more references to jews in new york, more (human) jewish characters, hell, even mentioning hanukkah celebrations and menorahs in windows (it takes place in late december, after all; depending on the year it's not at all out of place for hanukkah to coincide with xmas!) would help. having literally any more positive jewish representation in tuc1 would, i think, help balance the bad stuff that's there. because, yeah, robert moses was real and he was terrible and he was jewish. but he's one jewish guy in a city with over a million jews, the vast majority of whom are just normal people. i don't want him to be the only vision of us that people get, in tuc1 alone or in any media. i'm not saying that jews can't or shouldn't be villains in fiction; but especially if you are a goyische creator, you should be really careful in how you're portraying us, and if there are other contrasting depictions in your work, too, in order to not (even accidentally) demonize jewish people as a whole.

#sasha answers #anon #unsleeping city #the unsleeping city #long post #sorry for not putting this under a read more but i think people ought to see this. or at least #if two people felt the need to ask me about it then at least they would want to see the full thing uncovered #also fwiw i do think that they tried to address this to some extent when they made tuc2 #with more scenes with willy (and incorporating more golem folklore with the animating word in his mouth -- nice touch!)#the jewish immigrant family in the photo flashback encounter (even if the hanukkiah in the picture isn't exactly kosher lol)#and ESPECIALLY rabbi mike. i ADORE rabbi mike. i think he's a WONDERFUL addition #i do still wish he was a more important/prominent character. cause again he isn't in it all that much.#(and he's still like. the only new jewish human character in the campaign.)#but i recognize what he represents and i am happy about it #i do think brennan & the d20 crew tried to improve after tuc1. i do. i see their efforts and i applaud them for it #but still to my knowledge they haven't ever directly addressed the errors made in season 1 #and it's extremely rare that i even see other fans mention it #and like. sorry but i am tired. i am. we deserve better. we deserve portrayals in media that show us as People #not just as evil monsters #anyway you're welcome to rb this but be cool in the notes esp if you're a goy #other jews are welcome to (respectfully) disagree with me if they want #also if you so much as mention the word israel on this post you're getting blocked end of

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sassypotatoe1 · 6 months

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Imagine being such a perfectly written, directed and acted queer couple that the fandom doesn't even ship either of you with anyone else, not even with each other but with a poly third or more, and the fandom completely disregards that you're almost a bury your gays trope, AND you're a lesbian main pairing that doesn't feel fetishy for a second, AND other ships aren't more popular than you even though you're a wlw pairing and historically mlm or hetero pairings fare better in fandom because they're usually written better.

#Could only be Dani x Jaime #Fictional lesbians that made me cry #That still make me cry #bly manor #the haunting of bly manor #mike flanagan #dani x jamie #Daime #Is that their ship name?#I don't care I love them and they deserved more time together #And also the world

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redshoes-blues · 1 year

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Let's Talk About Clocks, Baby

Something is off with the timeline, emotions alter time, Mike is in danger, and it'll be up to Will Byers to fix this whole mess.

I'll be taking a look at some of the most prominent clocks and time references in Stranger Things to see if we can learn anything from them. At the heart of this analysis is the idea that Will is the antidote to the time fuckery. Oh, and also emotions have the power to alter the movement of time. Aka emotionsgate?! And gay love will save the day. This is a long one, so I hope you enjoy your read! :)

"We are all time travellers, if you think about it."

We've all been talking about the time shenanigans going on in Stranger Things, lately, so in my current rewatch of ST3, I've been looking out for any possible hints that could have been foreshadowing for ST4. I've found a couple.

First, let's bring in the Starcourt Mall clock.

This is the clock used in the Russian code. You know, the part that goes "when blue meets yellow in the west"? Yeah, that clue is inside a CLOCK

We all know about colour theory, how the Russian code has a possible ST4/byler meaning and how certain characters are coded with colours (blue = Mike, yellow = Will), so that bit is obvious. And yeah, colour theory is a bit overdone, but hear me out!

The fact that clocks are Vecna’s symbol and that’s the thing the blue and yellow part of the code has been applied to?! Wild.

The obvious main clock symbol is the grandfather clock at the Creel house that appears in the visions of Vecna’s victims. In the visions, the same clock rings four times (meaning four gates). It's even this very clock that orchestrates the fall of Hawkins. But clocks also appear behind Max before we learn that she’s the next target. This is massive foreshadowing!

So all of this got me thinking of clocks and time, and all of the theories floating around that show how important time is going to be in ST5. The whole plot of the final season is going to be about defeating Vecna, who is associated with clocks, and dealing with Upside-Down-Hawkins. This last bit is extra interesting since we know the Upside Down is set in the past.

And for a long time my main theory has been that Will is the key to finally defeating Vecna. Which I still think will be true, but I also think it’ll have more to do with the time shenanigans than I originally suspected.

I mean, Dustin isn't far off when he says this in ST4:

Will's connection with Vecna is special. From the parallels between him and Henry to Will the Wise and the numerous hints that he has untapped powers. And especially the fact that he's the one who realizes the Mind Flayer and Vecna are still alive (in ST3/ST4, respectively).

So, because Vecna is associated with clocks, I've been looking out for other clocks during my rewatch. Which brings me back to this:

The Starcourt Mall clock is specifically mentioned in the text. In fact, it's part of the Russian code. It isn't just a prop, but a piece of the plot. That's what made me do a triple-take while watching, this time around. It isn't just a random clock.

So, if Will is yellow and the key to defeating Vecna (more on that shortly), then what does the clock say about all this?

If I allow myself to get extra meta with the visual analysis, the fact that the clock’s hands play into colour theory could be a clue. It's the hands that are yellow and blue: the active parts of the clocks which have the ability to move through time. The hands of a clock show time moving. As we know, time in the Upside Down has stopped for some reason. It's stuck in a loop related to Will's disappearance.

Entering the UD is a bit like time travelling. And as El said at the start of ST4, we're all time travellers.

In fact, we know that Henry’s powers have some effect on time. Or at least on the Creel clock. Because when Henry first taps into his powers, the grandfather clock's hands start to move backwards. It’s implied that Henry is making this happen.

The same thing happens later in the season, when Vecna is showing Nancy the vision of Hawkins’ future. It includes this clip of the Creel clock with its hands turning backwards:

So, in a way, Vecna is altering time. We aren’t sure how or why yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it has something to do with emotions or trauma (which I'll get into soon). Especially because Vecna's attacks have to do with trauma, and the antidote so far has been positive emotions and memories that are brought to the surface through music.

Clock Magic?

Another thing to take into consideration is how the Creel clock is connected to Henry's powers, and also seems to possess power of its own. We see this when Max "dies" and the fourth gate is created. The Creel clock chimes four times, and then the Upside Down begins to leak into Hawkins. We can see this in the two GIFs below (shit quality, sorry about that!):

The clock chimes four times and then there is a "frenzied ticking" which builds throughout the scene as Hawkins falls to Vecna. The scene implies that the clock itself has something to do with this.

What does this mean for the timeline in ST5?

We know the Upside Down is in the past. Specifically, the day Will vanishes (November 6, 1983). It seems likely that it works as a time loop, with the same day on repeat until the cycle is broken. Or maybe there are several days which repeat themselves until it resets at the point Will enters the UD. We really don't know for sure. But we do know that it's definitely the past.

What does this mean for Hawkins? Is Hawkins becoming stuck in time as well? Will it be cut off from the outside world because of this? Is the clock slowing down time, ensuring Hawkins remains stuck in its current state because emotions (we'll get there, don't worry)? I definitely don't have the answers yet, but please let me know if you have any ideas how this could be working. It's all so fascinating!

But however it works, there's definitely some time fuckery going on. Whether it's related to the Creel clock itself or Vecna's powers, or whatever Will has done that made the UD shape to himself — well, again, who knows! Not me, but I wanted to point it out because it's clearly going to be a massive part of ST5.

Will is the Antidote

Season 5 is going to be about defeating Vecna (obviously).

But first: in order to stop a villain, you need an antidote to their powers. Right now, El and Vecna share most of the same powers. She hasn't been able to defeat him yet, even though her powers are the strongest they have ever been. There's a missing piece there.

We see this illustrated in the D&D game at the start of ST4, which serves as foreshadowing for the events that happen in the season. An 11 is rolled, but it's a miss. It isn't until Erica (an unlikely hero and outsider in the game) rolls a 20 that Vecna is defeated. And then that exact thing plays out in Hawkins when El isn't able to defeat Vecna.

We have yet to see what the IRL 20 will be, because Vecna "wins" at the end of ST4. He gets what he wanted when the four gates are created and Hawkins falls. But my guess is that it'll have to do with Will. Everything began with Will, and it will end with him too.

Which brings me back to Will and the clock. Because Will serves as a foil for Vecna as a character. They are both sensitive and different (read: gay) and have an abusive parent who tries to make them fit into societal expectations — to no avail. They both draw. They both have close connections with the UD and Mind Flayer. But here we're getting a bit of a Star Wars light side / dark side of the force parallel, where Will has chosen to be good and Vecna has become the villain.

One character is trying their best to work through their trauma, and the other is lashing out in anger.

All of this is to say that I think the Starcourt Mall clock could be a bit of foreshadowing for ST4 and the role Will plays moving forward into ST5. Just as Henry is able to stop time in the UD, Will will be able to move it forward again.

This could happen in any number of ways, and I'm still not sure how the weird time shenanigans will play out, but what I am certain of is that Will is the key to solving everything. And it will likely come down to emotions and healing his traumatic past.

Time and Emotions

At the very start of ST4, El quotes something Joyce tells her about time. She says that emotions slow time down, but they also speed it back up. She then directly mentions time travel in relation to our emotions.

"Joyce says time is funny like that. Emotions can make it speed up or slow down. We are all time travellers, if you think about it."

Given this line about time travel being related to emotions, I think that emotions/feelings/love are going to be the thing that allows Will to fix the UD and defeat Vecna.

This bit about emotions is huge. Because we see that the UD is shaped by Henry, and is later shaped around Will’s vanishing. Emotional and traumatic memories for the both of them. In Will’s case, did time in the UD dimension slow down because he left an emotional imprint on the landscape, via his trauma?

And if this really is the case, then it only seems natural that the process of saving Hawkins will be wrapped up with Will healing his trauma. Just like how Vecna's victims can be saved through music and positive memories/emotions.

Like the cleric he plays in D&D, Will is going to save Hawkins, healing his own trauma and dealing with his emotions in order to move forward.

How?

Realizing the power within himself in both a literal and metaphorical sense. Harnessing the powers he has and his connection to the MF/Vecna, yes, but also by learning that he is a valuable person who doesn't have to make himself smaller for the benefit of other people's happiness.

Confronting his trauma relating to the Upside Down, maybe by helping to close it off once and for all; or by restoring it to its pre-Vecna state. Healing that dimension so the leakage of Henry Creel's trauma doesn't seep into Hawkins any longer. And in doing so, healing the trauma within himself.

Accepting his own queerness and learning that being different doesn't make him a mistake. Realizing that he is loved and deserves to feel this love. Part of this will be related to coming out, and I think another piece will be related to requited love.

All of these have to do with his emotions, and they will be the way he’s able to save Hawkins.

Because when we look at Vecna and his victims, what he represents as a metaphor in the show, we're dealing in the area of emotions and trauma. For Max, she is dealing with complicated feelings after Billy's death. But she also represses those feelings and doesn't open up to her friends until it's almost too late.

If we look at Patrick, Lucas suspected he was dealing with abuse at home, but Patrick never talked about it with anyone. Same with Fred's guilt about the hit-and-run. He's terrified of the idea that he'll be found out. In the case of Chrissy, her own boyfriend has no idea about what she's going through.

So not only are Vecna's victims dealing with trauma, mental health issues, and complex emotions, but they are also actively repressing these emotions.

Not to get too psychoanalytic here, but healing from trauma and dealing with your emotions properly requires you to be open, rather than repressing what you feel. I think this is one reason why music is used as the antidote to getting Vecna'd. Because music allows us to deal with our emotions in a more positive way. It also connects us to positive memories, like Running Up That Hill does for Max, or Should I Stay Or Should I Go does for Will.

In Will's case, a large piece in his character arc is learning to accept that he's gay and has feelings for Mike. Really, this has been most of his arc for ST3 and ST4. This isn't resolved yet, so he'll be continuing to deal with this self-acceptance (and eventual coming out process) in ST5.

To bring it back to that Starcourt Mall clock: Will is the yellow hand on the clock, but it isn't just him that's implicated in all of this. This is yellow meeting blue that we're talking about!

The blue hand. What is Mike's role in all of this?

So if clocks = Vecna, and Will is going to be the antidote to healing Hawkins, then Mike has his own important role to play as the other hand on the clock (and also as the boy Will is in love with, and a main character who is repressing a lot of his own issues).

If Vecna has another target, it's going to be Mike.

[GIF doesn't belong to me! You can find it here]

I feel so strongly about this. For SO many reasons.

Here's a bulleted list of some of them:

Mike has displayed feelings of self-loathing over the course of the show (cliff scene, I'm looking you right in the eye)

He represses his emotions, both to his loved ones and the audience — and potentially with himself

The above GIF is a very ominous parallel between Mike and Max which suggests Mike may be about to get a Vecna vision. HOWEVER, the scene is from Will's POV, so we don't see what Mike sees

Which is its own point: we haven't seen what Mike sees in all of ST4 (except briefly in the couch scene, which I analyzed here), as well as most of ST3. His inner world is deliberately hidden

If Mike is gay and/or in love with Will like I believe he is, there will be a lot of unresolved feelings to deal with there. The kind of micro-trauma queer folks deal with, especially during the 1980s

The tense relationship between Mike and both of his parents, but especially Ted. This point doubles when you contextualize it with Ted being a Reagan supporter (aka a rampant homophobe whose disgusting treatment of queer men in the 80s led to thousands of deaths)...who knows what kind of shit he's said to Mike that we haven't been shown

The whole trauma of having his best friend "die" and then turn up alive, as well as the similar trauma of believing El was still out there even though everyone assumed she died

Probably other shit I'm forgetting. But mostly how weird he's been acting, and especially how terrified he looks on that couch

I know lots of people assume Will is Vecna's #1 target, but I actually don't think he's a target at all. Will is more akin to a Luke Skywalker type figure who Vecna wants to team up with, turning him to the "dark side" because he sees Will as similar to him. There's a reason Vecna didn't have Will killed like everyone else.

As we’ve learned: emotions can speed up time or slow it down. I’m thinking there’s probably a metaphorical thing with positive vs. negative feelings as well. Like: not dealing with our trauma and repressing our negative feelings leads to a person being stuck in the past. In a literal way with the Upside Down, but also a metaphorical way. Positive emotions work in the opposite way, allowing us to let go of the past and move into the future.

Emotions can turn back the clock. They can slow down time. Emotions = time travel

The above scene is from the end of ST3, when Hopper's letter is being read out as the Byers move away. Hopper is describing how he was afraid of change (the future, El growing up, things changing), so he tried to stop that change. He tried to TURN BACK THE CLOCK. And look at who the camera pans to when he says this...

In a scene which directly mirrors the hug between Karen and Mike when Mike runs home believing Will is dead.

Both scenes have Heroes playing in the background, by the way. A song which summarizes all of the queer themes in the show, which I did an analysis of here.

Mike is a character who we don’t know anything about the internal world of. Which I think is a massive red (green?) flag for his chances of getting the Vecna treatment, given that he’s really the only main character who we don’t hear from in this way. The only time it even appears like we might be hearing from him, he’s just parroting what Will tells him to say to El.

So, for me, the blue hand (Mike) in the clock (Vecna) is foreshadowing for the fact that he may be targeted by Vecna in ST5. Maybe he's already been targeted and we just haven't seen it from his POV, yet. I actually think this will be the reason Will stops repressing his powers and learns how to use them (whatever they are). Or learns to use his connection to the UD in order to save the love of his life.

Because if all of this time stuff comes down to emotion, Will needs to accept that his feelings for Mike don’t make him a mistake. He needs to learn to accept himself. And is there any better catalyst to enact that change than Mike being in danger? We saw how a life or death scenario made Max open up a bit more to her friends, and I feel the same will happen with Mike and Will.

So, to recap:

Clocks represent Vecna and also play into the weird time shenanigans that ST5 will definitely deal with

The Starcourt Mall clock has yellow (Will) and blue (Mike) hands to indicate that those two will play a key role in defeating Vecna

Will: is the antidote/positive opposite to Vecna; who Henry could have been if he healed from his trauma -> this means Will is the only one who can stop Vecna for good

Mike: prime target for a Vecna'ing in ST5 due to his whole aura, and this will probably be the catalyst for Will kicking into gear and solving shit

There's some funky stuff going on with the timeline/possible time travel stuff that is way too detailed for this analysis, and it's definitely an essential part of ST5 that we'll be dealing with

Emotions alter time and may even play into how time travel and the speeding up / slowing down of time works in the show

Healing trauma, dealing with emotions, and accepting yourself are all going to be major themes in ST5, and this will be the way that Vecna is defeated: the power of love?! I love to see it

Also: the Creel house clock might have some power of its own?

Author's Note

Well, that's it! The power of gay love saves the day. Truly iconic, if you ask me.

This analysis has been so fun to put together over the last week, and I hope you all have fun reading it as well! Originally it was meant to be a breakdown of the Starcourt Mall clock, but then I remembered the quote about emotions and time travel and it kind of had me gnawing at my screen because hyperfixations, so there's that.

As always, I love to hear people's thoughts on these analysis posts, so if you have any ideas that go along with this, feel free to add onto it. Or you can send me an ask if you have any questions! I'd love to hear what you think! :)

—Em

#this is like 3000 words lmao #and I think I still have more to say about it - especially the emotions/time stuff #anyways clocks are fun let’s talk about clocks. and emotions. and trauma. and gay love #oh and time travel!#st5 theory #mike you’re in danger! run!#byler #will byers is a hero and henry creel deserved a better childhood #what the FUCK is going on with that creek clock btw - I can’t figure that but out #byler analysis #byler meta #stranger things analysis #st5 theories #stranger things theory #stranger things meta #vecna #the upside down

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thefirstlioveyou · 3 months

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#also please bare with me #but i also feel like there deserves to be more gay x gay in mexia #media #i feel like lots of people don’t do so because #‘oh it wouldnt be that interesting if theyre the same sexuality since theres nothing to explore if its all the same’#and im just like…#but then byler??#byler have different upbringings and families and their own view of their sexuality #yet still are both gay #mike comes from a finically set home but a tradtional family that lacks connection and emotional presence #will comes from a poor family that despite not having a present father is being raised by a loving mother and brother who accepts and #supports him and are there no matter what #mike isn’t visibly queer as will is #of course theyre gonna process their sexuality different even if they are both gah #gay**#idk #i just dont see much gay x gay #i dont know the real reason for his #this #but this could be a possibility

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delusionalblfan · 5 months

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finally i am here to talk about the end of twins the series. my last post but i need it

yes, it's very hard to forgive this clownery. i fell for twins not for the same reasons i fell for pit babe, last twilight or the sign, which is awesome because it's so good that different bl series exist. and you can have that one that balances it, that it's a safe zone - like twins was. it was a feel-good series, light-hearted, easygoing. until it wasn't. and i feel so wronged. i feel heartbroken and disappointed for varied reasons:

- it is unfitting that Sprite is like that. to the point of feeling odd, frustrated and almost confused that some things were happening. i guess the writers know him better (?) but it doesn't feel like it. and in the end he keeps going for the determined 'i like you i will flirt and we will date' without feeling honest guilt or even giving credit to First's feelings. is he someone this shallow? does he realise he seriously fucked up? and if this is the Sprite they were looking for, i hate him. it's a no no

- said enough about how frustrated i am towards the way they characterised First. and unfortunately the ending was as i expected, given the path they were going. it was so but so hard to watch it. almost unbearable. if they were looking for a 'oh so cute he gives in so easily', or a 'oh so whipped for Sprite', i did not feel it. just frustration and lack of sympathy for the choices

- the lack of development involving First and his father. in the finale the father says 'well done. i'm proud' and then problem solved and traumas from the past fixed? no no no

- lack of real communication between First and Zee. they just did not talk anymore and just played together? did they not have things to solve between them? so now they are kids that forget things without talking about them and problem solved? they are not kids. and as a viewer i needed that talk. it would make so much sense that they did it

- lack of more context on First's sister and what the fuck happened to her in the last episode. again... confusion and oddness and randomness. and they didn't even talk about it anymore. wtf

- Sprite, Zee and both parents eating together and just happiness and no real talk, not a sorry towards the kids that clearly suffered from a divorce, negligence and inexistent co-parenting

- all the hiding and lies and in the end only First ended up knowing about the switching? did the others also knew and i did not get it? no repercussion for Zee's future on volleyball given that someone else unlawfully played in his stead? needed so much more clarity on Zee and Sprite officially being two individuals and all the people close to them knowing

- lack of development of other stories (like Jack's family)... if you do not wish to give us more insight on those, don't make them up

#with one thing i agree. Mike and Jack are fwb. in this case the lack of development made it have sense this is their current relationship #i dealt with all of this solely because of Frame and Ryan. 100% them. they deserve better!!#ranting because i loved it before being totally heartbroken by the plot and characterisation of some characters. still have more to say...#...but will keep it for myself. it is not that important for me to go that deep. i will let it go for good now. bye #twins the series #frame ritchanon #ryan panya mcshane

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gayofthefae · 1 year

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Remindee that Mike's arc has to do with both Will AND El.

It is not going to be "revealed who it's been about this whole time". No. It is about both of them. Both together and individually.

Romantic love and the inherent payoff that comes with it does not function as a reveal for the overall meaning of the show for him. His love for El is still VERY pertinent.

To separate them in case you don't understand:

A) It's about his struggle with his queerness and feelings for his best friend while in a relationship and a homophobic town, torn and repressing until he learns that that IS something he can have.

B) His first love who grants him deep understanding and teaches him how to love and communicate and that love can survive anything, including a change in nature, and that a true lover always was also a friend and can also be your friend after they are your lover and continue to grant you that understanding because romance does not dictate closeness and you can keep that understanding and love. Things can change and YOU can change and still be worthy and emotionally safe and supported.

He is safe in his identity and he is safe in his personality. And these arcs with these people are not only coexistent but complementary and MUST both exist.

ALSO, it is a wonderful testament to lack of codependency in a relationship and showing via these arcs fulfilled in different places that YOU can be fulfilled in different places and be validated in different ways by different people rather than pressuring one person to be everything for you. His relationship with Will does not erase everyone else in his life from pertinence and so it certainly does not erase El.

Put this in the tags but loved it too much so:

Will validating that Mike is incredibly loved and doesn't HAVE to change and El validating that Mike is incredibly loved and thus is ALLOWED to change >>>>>>

Both are equal and good and not easily done by the same person at the same time! So this is PERFECT. I'm obsessed.

#hot take: el is still the first person to truly grant him that understanding because he never had to take that risk before of talking to #someone who had not gone through the same thing at the same time #and it wasn't until season 2 that his relationship with will really deepened in that way #when he sought out that understanding he now knew that he wanted because he got it from el in a relationship that had previously been more #(appropriately) fun and childish even with common hard experiences #elmike analysis #byler analysis #narrative arcs #elmike <3 #platonic elmike #elmike breakup #but in like an I treat like I'll treat the Byler kiss way because it gives THEM the happiness WITH each other they deserve #EL STAYING THROUGH THIS IS GONNA SHOW HIM THAT IT IS OKAY TO CHANGE FROM WHO SHE LOVED WHEN THEY FIRST MET AND SHE WILL STILL LOVE HIM AND #PEOPLE WILL STILL LOVE HIM EVEN IF HE IS EXTREMELY VULNERABLE OR SHOWS SOMETHING NEW ABOUT HIMSELF OR CHANGES 😭#willel really said mike love yourself or we'll do it for you #willel bonding rather than competing over their love of mike truther #character arcs #i might cry this is such a beautiful arc for him and so relatable #stranger things #mike wheeler analysis #elmike #byler

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its-tickety-boo · 2 years

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in s5 I want it to be full on angst with a happy ending, I don't care anymore. Give me Will marching his ass straight into the upside down thinking he's the key to how this all started. Give me an epic battle against Vecna, both in Hawkins and the Upside Down, that gets too close for comfort and results in Will getting seriously injured. Give me Mike, hurting just like everyone, struggling his way through the portal and finding Will a little ways away, bleeding and barely conscious. Give me Mike slinging Will's arm over his shoulders and using every bit of willpower he possesses to get Will out of there. I want drama. Pain. Tears. And then, they make it out, and just hold each other like they're the most precious thing in the world.

#byler #will x mike #will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things 5 #i know Will doesn't deserve any more pain #but #this still doesn't seem as bad as the shit in v2

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aemiron-main · 1 year

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also I do think that will should get to hug Mike in one of those hugs where he picks him up a bit. i just think he should get to lift his boyfriend up!! i don’t even mean this in a “buff byers has to be strong and domineering” way, I mean it in a “they’re both dorks and I want Will to hug Mike so tightly after that pathetic airport hug that he lifts Mike up a bit and they’re both laughing and they both almost fall over and Mike deserves to be flustered bc usually he’s the one trying to get people to lean on him so I want to see him lean on others/be cared for by others even just in small ways” way.

#stranger things #byler #st scenarios #byler scenarios #like just 2 be clear…. when I talk abt wanting will you lift Mike up or care for him it’s not abt buff ness it’s abt the fact that usually #Mike is the one doing more of the physical caretaking and defending and it’s hit a point where it’s not sustainable for him (see: quarry)#to always be the one physically trying to save/help people. so I think he should get the same treatment sometimes and same goes for the way #that will provides emotional support to mike I think that mike needs to provide that sort of support to will as well a little role swap for #a healthy relationship yk. like if i see ppl trying to make my Mike gets cared for posting into ‘uwu mike is just the inept always cared for #one and will is a big macho man’ then I’m biting them FR bc it’s not abt their looks it’s about their Dynamic and relationship and #personalities and how will is the only one who seems to notice how mike is struggling to care for himself and……… many thoughts #*wanting will to lift mike up #like I would still want this even if Mike was absolutely fucking ripped bc it’s not abt bodies it’s abt the dynamic between them #even if will was a gnome the size of a thumb I would still want him 2 magically find some sort of way to sweep his bf off his feet for once #they can sweep eachother off their feet the knight (mike) deserves to be swept sometimes too ok

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serenuum · 9 months

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having SO many mike warren thoughts i want to share but THEYRE ALL IN MY NATIVE LANGUAGE AND ITS TOO ENERGY CONSUMING TO ACTUALLY TRANSLATE ANY OF THEm like what the FCUKK

anyway its once again going insane over special agent mike warren hours happy going insane over special agent mike warren hours to everyone who celebrates < 3333

#YOU DONT GET TO TALK TO ME #because youre not sentimental mike #yes i am #i would be like 10x times more active here IF ONLY i could like. immediately straight up write down all my thoughts in english #i mean i can and i do occasionally but like. fucking UGH #anyway. thinking about literally EVERYTHING #mikecharlie and mikejohnny bromances. mikes death. adhd mike. .#mike who tries his best and forgives people who hurt (MORE LIKE LITERALLY MURDERED < 33) him and who just wants to be loved #tender and caring and supportive mike emotionally vulnerable mike mike who cries and needs help mike who does everything he can #he wants a friend he wants someone to trust w whom he can be himself and not be afraid of being used n manipulated he wants someone to love #hes so tired of everyones shit hes been dragged through literally EVERYTHING hes seen murders hes seen tortures a person committed suicide #right in front of him hes literally been dead hes been abused hes been addicted hes been shot two times and at second time he couldnt even #go to a hospital he was lying injured and shot in some fucking garage on the cold floor and was alone should i go on with the list #he didnt deserve any of that shit AND IM GOING TO FUCKIGN PROTECT HIM WITG MY LIFE #because youre not sentimental mike yes i am. he cares. he cares so much you cant even imagine #hes been through so much and he still holds love and hope in his heart. this shit is insane and im going to kill someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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vinkumakkara · 4 months

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youtube

jesus christ

#Mike not badmouthing Minimaul more openly after all that shit... patience and grace of a fucking saint. like sure it was his job but still #he ended up almost no longer HAVING the job because of this #that's awful. it's all just awful and Mike didn't deserve any of this. made me tear up a bit

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mickgaydolenz · 1 year

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so, i was reading 17° Aquarius which is what Micky's Mars is in and it was... interesting. i mean it's main theme is egotism and being dependent on others for stimulation; corruption and selfishness at its very worse. there's some merit to this but i only say that confidently because his Mars is in his 12H.

while the 4H represents the hidden life, and 8H represents the hidden mind, the 12H represents just being hidden in general; whether its abilities, emotions, opinions, the past, whatever is placed there. it's only accessed/activated -- other than for a profection year -- either willingly, or being forced to tap into it. especially so if there's aspects to it. it's also the last house which often represents endings and closure, answers given, and healing from old wounds.

majority of the time people will either totally ignore whatever's in this house or they'll escape into it to avoid reality. sure, you can ignore or run to your 12H placements for as long as you want, but they will always come back to bite you in the ass. everyone like's to throw karma around here, but that word has become so overused that it overtime lost it's original meaning, to which i cannot even define, as it's been bastardized to fit the white person's spiritual lexicon (thank you colonialism very cool /s). soooo a better way of describing this house is a house of personal retribution.

the reason im bringing this up is not to talk so much about Micky's 12H, since it's only his Mars there ...so sorry worldwide Micky girls nation <\3. although i will say, when i read "susceptibility to physically illness if frustrations grow intense" i got worried, so my eyes are closer than ever on that old man. watching him like a hawk as we speak.

i'm bringing this up because i've mentioned before about Mike's 12H and how that might've came into play when he had that "i got it" moment in his life. we actually have some telling placements here. he has three: his South Node, and asteroids Vesta and Pallas.

im actually not gonna talk about his asteroids because it's not why i'm here in your inbox. why i'm here is to discuss his South Node. this is extremely important, Mike girls. you should take notes. its gonna get melancholic.

in astrology, we have these things called Moon Nodes. you have a North and a South Node, and they will always be opposing each other in opposing signs, because they're supposed to; the North Node represents the present life, the quest, growth, while South Node represents the past life, the resource, our blockages. do you see where this is going?

i could explain the Nodes themselves, as it does give way to fully realizing their curriculum in his chart, but ive honestly hadn't gotten around to fully understanding them just yet because i'm still stuck on degree theory. i'm only sharing what i know and what i'm currently reading on them so that i can explain this correctly. you can read here and here if you sincerely need to know the details. all you have to know for this is that his NN is in Leo 6H and his SN in Aquarius 12H. i've already explained the 12H, but the 6H deals with daily living, organization, service and health. now you are bueno *whip crack effect* 👍

tw death mention coming up here//

i've been quietly busy piecing things together to see what important placements were there in-around the times of death for the three. mistakenly, at first, i would focus heavily on their profection year they died and the aspects to it, without even considering the years before that would lead up to that. those prior years do in fact play a role here. what i've found is that there's no one important placement, aspect or degree that can encompass a death-like sentence to someone's astro makeup. while astrology cannot predict when or even how someone will die, what we can do is posthumously see what important factors lead to their passing.

in Mike's case, he passed in his 7H profection year; the year before, he was in his 6H; to note, he actually has a stellium here, which are all entirely retrograded, but that's not important to this. and guess what was there? because this was the year of 2020, when everyone was isolated and recollecting themselves; this was his Node's last attempts to sober him up before it all ended, and it had to do so by sheer force.

you know what happened next? he stopped hiding.

even after Davy had passed and he gave in to touring with his surviving band members, he still seemed to isolate himself after the show was over. barely showing for interviews with the others. didn't spill himself too much that wasn't about what was going on around him. he kept to himself as always and no one tried too hard to pry him. the usual Michael Nesmith routine.

but after Peter had passed, i think something just snapped in him. for some reason i feel like he found himself more comfortable being vulnerable after Peter was gone... really strange stuff. almost like he was afraid of being or feeling similar to him? ffs i wish he was still alive so i could ask him cause it's gonna kill me otherwise.

but now, amidst the chaos of 2020, instead of running away into comfort and escaping from being vulnerable, he brought those vulnerabilities out instead, especially so on stage. if i had to guess anything about Mike during this time, is that he just wanted to heal. he so badly wanted to mend things even after things were too late & far gone, which i would also include his physical health here too, as 6H rules physical health -- Micky did say he had health issues for a long while. but his struggles trying to communicate that among other things made it a too-little-too-late issue (uh-oh girls, it's his Saturn Rx 3H eating him alive!).

but what he could mend at that moment, he did, and what he was able to mend was his relationship to his audience. remember when we talked about this before with Peter? sighs. Mike went YOINK and took those lessons without directly discussing him, whether he knew it or not. he is sooooo irritating ❤

i'll end this off by sharing this: in one of my sources i have that actually talks about the Nodes, there's a section where the author explains the Nodes through the lens of different religious and cultural mythologies. of course, since we're talking about Mike, the Christian version stood out to me most for this case, which brings in the story of Adam & Eve. at first i passed it off cause it's only a short paragraph in a sea of much more lengthier mythologies, but the more i read it the more enlightening it became to me.

here's the direct quote:

"Eve draws Adam into the world of duality, relationship and further incarnation, by listening to the serpent. Later, Eve having given birth to Mary, God enters mankind through her, thus bringing the Christ out of Adam. Here I would understand Eve and Mary to be representing two different facets of the cosmic feminine principle. So by listening to the serpent, we move further into duality and the world of form, and by listening to God, we are reconnected with unity."

and in the end, Mike finally listened to God. properly. for once in his life.

#i’m not even going to add anything here this is a masterpiece all its own so i’m going to let your words do the work kale #they deserve to be front and center because wow dude #mike nesmith #the monkees #the only thing i will say is it is interesting because i can definitely see the shift in mike after peter’s death. i think he really #was confronted by his own morality at that point. having dealt with several health issues by that point himself. and knowing he was only #getting older etc. i also think (and this might be my own bias but) micky in that rolling stone article he did recently he mentions how #mike was still very private but he would say things to micky that he wouldn’t anyone else (which is according to micky so who knows). but #it seems like mike really benefited from micky being the other monkee left (which sounds HORRIBLE) but i mean it in the sense that he #seemingly felt a level of comfort with micky that he didn’t with davy or peter and was able to more fully come forward #when they became a duo. and this might be so off topic but it just came to me as i read this sorry 😂#rhubarb asks

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