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peachyrm · 5 years

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i feel like a lot of ppl on this site see a callout post for BTS, look at all of the problematic things they did in the past, and immediately ‘cancel’ them or see that as a valid reason to finally hate them or kpop in general, without considering the context of the situations or how the kpop industry works.

im definitely not here to defend the things they said or did, because it WAS gross. but those things are also from 3-5 years ago, have apologized for or had no control over whether it happened or not.

this post serves as a ‘clearing their name’ type of post, and will actually take a look into the problematic things theyve done and how they dealt with it, along with all the positive things they have done in the past few years. it will be pretty lengthy and will have lots of sources/screenshots. before i get into this though, i want to say that no one is obligated to like BTS, or forgive them for what they/their label did. you reserve the right to feel the way you feel, however that may be. that being said, this post is for people who never saw the apologies, who vaguely know who BTS are and saw only bad things about them, who want to get into BTS but aren’t sure if they’re extremely problematic, and more.

starting off, i want to explain the context behind the links of this post. i would link the original, but op has deleted it. so, obviously, yes bts did do all of the above. but like i said before, it was 3-5 (now, technically 6) years ago. when BTS debuted in 2013, they were all 21 or under. 15-16 year old Jungkook being the youngest, and Seokjin being the oldest at 21. they were merely teenagers and on top of this, had no or very little control of their self image. the hairstyles & photoshoots, the boys had no control over. bighit and bts’ stylists are in charge of these things. if you want someone to be angry at, be angry at bighit, bts’ label company. this includes RM’s hairstyle back in the ‘No More Dream’ era / early debut days, Suga’s dreads, and any other hairstyle, clothing, or photoshoot that caused controversy. (in case anyone, who isn’t familiar with kpop, is confused; kpop label companies usually control everything their idols do. from what they wear, to what their songs are about, to if they’re even allowed to date. it’s a very disgusting industry that has a history of abuse, but that’s an entirely different subject i could get into.)

here is an article where BigHit apologizes for the antisemitism + the ‘bombing’ shirt Jimin wore, and they explicitly state that “the band members were ‘in no way responsible’ for the controversy.” which further proves my point that the boys had no control over what they wore/how they looked.

here is a thread about RM’s racist behavior in the past, and admitting + apologizing for what he did, including how he has changed certain lyrics of songs because they could be seen as (or were) misogynist. to this day, RM hates and regrets how his hair looked at the time.

in case anyone doesn’t want to read the entire thread, RM says this: “As I went through the year 2016 I came to think about that. My words or behaviors, regardless of my intentions, could cause troubles or hurt others feelings. In the process, I thought I need to hold responsibility for that and I need to think about such things. What I said or did would not be undone. I thought so. Then I learned how to admit myself. [...] Anyways, to become a better person, I need to hold responsibility for what I do. I need to change my mindset. I need to change my way of thinking if it’s wrong. I learned I need to hear from many people. I mean, I came to think like that. Now when I do something, I think, ‘how would people feel about my act?’”

again, this is not excuses for what they did, but rather how/why it happened or how they had no choice in the matter & what they had to say about it afterwards. BTS are living, growing people who have acknowledged their mistakes and apologized. in RM’s speech at the U.N. he says this: “Maybe I made a mistake yesterday, but yesterday’s me is still me. I am who I am today, with all my faults. Tomorrow I might be a tiny bit wiser, and that’s me, too. These faults and mistakes are what I am, making up the brightest stars in the constellation of my life. I have come to love myself for who I was, who I am, and who I hope to become.”

since the apology part of this post is mostly over, i wanted to talk about the good things that bts has done in the past few years. things like their continuous support of the LGBT community, the powerful messages in their music, the bending of the ‘typical kpop style’, etc.

over the years and as their popularity grew, BTS have actually managed to seemingly take more control over what they stand for and how they present themselves and their music. since around 2017, BTS have made a very impactful social stance with their string of albums & their concept: “Love Yourself”. for people who don’t know, this concept consists of three albums over the course of 2016-2018 and are in order as follows: LOVE YOURSELF 承 'Her', LOVE YOURSELF 轉 'Tear' LOVE YOURSELF 結 'Answer'

the summarized version of the stories are love at first sight, the failing/one-sided-ness of said love, and then learning how to love and accept yourself before you are fully able to love others. along with this concept came the partnership with the anti-violence campaign, UNICEF, who work to protect young people from all over the world. the entire album concept consistently promotes self-love and acceptance, something that is not very explored in kpop or even western pop music in general. while some of the songs in “LY: Her” use female pronouns, almost all the rest of them across all the albums use gender neutral or no pronouns. this was done intentionally by RM (who writes/produces a majority of their songs), as he believes “feelings/love transcend genders, cultures, and barriers between people.” the title song of “LY: Her”, “DNA”, (as stated in the screenshot) further expresses this idea with the lyrics: “None of this is a coincidence Because we’re the two who found our destiny - I only focus on you You steer me a little harder The DNA of the genesis wants you This is inevitable, I love us We are the only true lovers”

and in “Serendipity”, as well:

“The universe has moved for us Without missing a single thing Our happiness was meant to be Cuz you love me, and I love you”

while, obviously, there is one ‘her’ pronoun in the song, most of it expresses what RM says. and bighit being bighit, im sure they had some say in how the lyrics were presented, esp since it was the title song. what i’m trying to say is that i truly believe BTS are doing their best to support the lgbt community, even with the tight restrictions that their label and the kpop genre puts on them. being on the topic of LGBT+ and support of the community, here is suga pretty much saying he’s bi. + and of course, his iconic lyrics in “Cypher Pt.3″

here is the bisexual flag colors in j-hope’s music video for his song “Daydream”.

RM saying he liked “Same Love” twice as much after reading about the lyrics, and Suga outright saying “Nothing is wrong. Everyone is equal.” in the first screenshot.

Jungkook’s love and support for troye sivan + Jimin wearing jeans with lyrics of troye sivan’s “Youth” on them

bts defying gender norms over and over and over.

fondness & friendship with/of multiple lgbt artists

RM referencing the film “Moonlight” in the song “4 O’Clock”

RM wrote the lyrics for GLAM’s song “XXO”, that say “Are you a boy? Girl? I don’t care, passion is the key”

Jungkook and Jimin covering the song “We Don’t Talk Anymore” and not changing the pronouns.

an excerpt from RM’s speech at the U.N. ; “Tell me your story. I want to hear your voice, and I want to hear your conviction. No matter who you are, where you’re from, your skin color, gender identity: speak yourself.” + full transcript here.

and these are just things i can think of off the top of my head. as for their political stance and social messages in their music, & talking about other things considered taboo in kpop (such as mental health/illness), here you go:

suga talking about (his) mental health and struggles in various songs on his mixtape.

their ENTIRE “IDOL” music video is basically a response to how people stereotype them/the kpop genre & have said that they are “too westernized”. the song includes a “traditional African-Korean sound”, the boys wearing hanboks/traditional korean clothing, on top of lots of korean history references & symbolism, and how they take pride in what they do. here is a really good video analyzing & explaining the mv. heres 3 more posts explaining why it sounds/looks the way it does, and how BTS did it intentionally. in case nobody has seen/heard the song, here is the first verse: “You can call me artist (artist) You can call me idol (idol) No matter what you call me I don’t care I’m proud of it”

the song “Epiphany” on “LY: Answer”, is (as you can imagine) a song about having an epiphany about loving yourself. the lyrics are pretty self-explanatory. the chorus: “I’m the one I should love in this world Shining me, precious soul of mine I finally realized so I love me Not so perfect but so beautiful I’m the one I should love”

RM talking about his mental health/depression in “Forever Rain” on his mixtape “mono.” + as well as in “Reflection.” the outro of the song which i wanted to add, is just a repeated “I wish I could love myself.”

the lyrics to the song “I’m Fine” on LY: Answer express being able to love yourself without relying on somebody to fix you or make you happier, because only you can complete yourself.

the outro to the album, “Answer: Love Myself” concludes the Love Yourself album series, and has extremely beautiful lyrics. the full translation here, if anyone wants to read all of them. it’s about, as im sure you can guess, loving yourself even with all your flaws and mistakes & striving to be a better person each day.

SO TLDR; BTS absolutely have made mistakes, like every person does, but have apologized and learned from those mistakes. they have moved on, and have done more good in this world than bad. they have grown over the past 6 years and continue to grow every single day. as a young gay fan, their message and their presence means a lot to me. that fact that they’re so popular and use that power to spread kindness & self-acceptance (no matter Who you are), is really important especially in today’s society. doubly to youth who, themselves, struggle with mental illness and family issues, school/education, and any typical problem young people face in their lives. i have struggled with self-hate, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, trauma, the whole ordeal. their songs have helped me heal, even if only a little. and they give me another reason to keep going everyday. even if you don’t like their music or the boys themselves, there is no denying the positive impact they’ve made on millions of people, adults and children alike. BTS are absolutely not perfect, but they acknowledge this and do their best to BE the best they can be.

#bts #kpop #jeon jungkook #kim taehyung #park jimin #kim namjoon #jung hoseok #min yoongi #kim seokjin #bts v #bts rm #bts suga #bts jhope #bts jin #mine

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marinsawakening · 5 years

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2 3 4 and 7 for ur meme >:3 let the salt come forth

2: Most amatonormative ship?

UHHHHH of all time??? or just in FMA??? oh shit should’ve probably thought this one through before making the ask meme lmao

okay so I’ll do in FMA first because it’s the easiest and uh. that’d be alm/ei. there’s literally no reason for either al or mei to have a love interest, its clearly used as a gag in canon, it was pretty much 100% onesided in canon, but for some godforsaken reason the fandom just?? loves it???? and considers it canon that they’d get married later in life?????? I mean I’m not gonna say that Arakawa wouldn’t agree with that but. she and everyone else is would be wrong. Al is aro and Mei is lithro and they try a relationship post canon but it doesn’t work out bc they’re arospec babe so they decide to be good friends instead and its a relief for everyone involved and that’s the truth.

Of all time…. that’s tough. I’m gonna go with Ca/leo (calypso/leo from the heroes of olympus franchise) even though I’m sure there’s worse things out there because I remember being FUCKED UP MAD when good ol’ uncle rick decided to pair off literally the only character from the original series that didn’t get a love interest because that was LITERALLY HER ENTIRE POINT and then decided to pair of leo because amatonormativity I guess AND THEN decided that they wouldn’t actually work as a couple so he just fucking. changed calypso’s entire personality. and I don’t mind that change much bc I like her better in HOO but YOU CAN’T JUST CHANGE CHARACTERS YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH RICK ESPECIALLY NOT FOR A ROMANCE THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. anyway im still salty about HOO can you tell.

3. Most amatonormative ship fic trope?

*slams my fist on table* HANAHAKI DISEASE. yes I know that the aro community as a whole is really Done with soulmates and I totally understand and respect that (even if my own feelings are a lot more complicated) bc they’re amatonormative as heckie and much more widespread but like. the entire concept of hanahaki disease is ‘if someone doesn’t love you back you will get TERMINALLY ILL” and I mean??? who the fuck???? thought this was cute????? seriously what the fuck.

4. What popular ship has the least chemistry?

Well I already used alm/ei so and I’m disqualifying ro/yed on grounds of wanting to make this fun so…. pissing people off lets go with edw/in. it sucks. its bad for winry’s character development and completely superfluous to the story. we gain absolutely nothing by having ed and winry be romantically involved. they work way better and are way cuter as friends, and we would lose no story beats whatsoever except for the proposal at the end which was awkward as fuck in my opinion. like if your ship contains canon dialogue like “were his shoulders always so broad” (or something either way it was winry busing about Ed’s shoulders which…. is that a thing? that I missed?) and “wait at home and bake me an apple pie” (again, something among those lines), that’s…. not great chemistry. sorry you guys i just don’t see it.

7. Which ship discourse is the funniest?

*pulls out my time in the VLD fandom* LET ME TELL YOU A THING

(under the cut because this shit is too fucking long)

okay so for the most part the VLD fandom wasn’t actually…. that bad. I mean it was childish and volatile as fuck and everyone was really hostile to each other don’t get me wrong, but honestly, it’s not the worst fandom experience I’ve ever had, and once I managed to carve out a little niche for myself it was pretty enjoyable (also a lot of the fans were autistic which. neat).

but there was one event in that fandom that just fucking. killed me. and I’m still not over it.

so once every three months or so (on average, sometimes it’d happen multiple times a month and sometimes it’d say quiet for months on end) we had some Major Bullshit happen that got on top of the regular ship wars. sometimes it was something a cast member (Pidge’s voice actress, usually) had said or reblogged, sometimes it was new age ‘confirmation’ that just added wood to the fire of the regular discourse, sometimes it was a new Hot Take™ on the show that everyone loved for a while until someone inevitably pointed out that it was ooc/problematic/etc. and then everyone hated it, etc. etc. pretty standard volatile fandom stuff, all things considered, with the vast majority of the discourse having valid points but being taken way out of proportion because of the sheer size of the fandom.

the shaladin discourse is definitely a good example of that. the main point of the anti side in that discourse is ‘hey don’t ship shiro with the other paladins he is an adult and they are teenagers’ and the point of the anti anti side is ‘don’t tell me what to do you pearl clutching purists’ which. i mean im clearly biased here. but the discourse was blown so far out of proportion, primarily because, again, this fandom is too fucking big, but also because a lot of people involved in the discourse were kids themselves. you basically had a bunch of 14/15-year-olds who by and large haven’t quite mastered critical thinking yet yelling at each other in debates that got very emotional very easily. (not saying this to be condescending, lord knows we should all be happy that I wasn’t into fandom when I was fifteen or I would’ve 100% been the person going ‘well actually it’s called ephebophilia get your terms right’ so we all dodged a bullet there. but im just saying that, historically, young teenagers don’t have the best trackrecord for rational, calm discussions, and it really showed.)

so, why am I taking the time to tell you all of this? so that you have proper context to how stupidly ridiculous this discourse was on a regular basis. many (most) of the people in this fandom seemed to totally forget that, while telling people not to ship pedophilia or stuff like that is generally pretty important, it’s ultimately still fandom bullshit and doesn’t really, actually matter that much in the grand scheme of things. it very quickly became a very strong ‘us vs. them’ mentality on both sides that resulted in actually pretty seriously toxic behaviour like death threats (although the anti side definitely had more of a tendency to go witch hunting after people, shaladins were absolutely not exempt from Bullshit, as you’ll see below). like i shit you not we were all genuinely waiting for the time someone would get stabbed irl over it or something, it was so tense.

and at some point, at what I consider the height of this stupid discourse, came Operation Shalanonymous.

I might be getting the name wrong, but they genuinely called it something like that, with a serious graphic behind it. I shit you not. This whole thing was so, so surreal.

Operation Shalanonymous was literally a spyop. A 15-year-old shaladin (and maybe some others, I don’t remember) who at the time went by the url ‘theblackguardianofsheith’ or something similar (they deleted, to my knowledge, and I hope they’re living their best life) pretended to be an anti and went ‘undercover’ in an anti discord server, with the purpose of ‘exposing’ the antis for what they really were. they gathered a bunch of screenshots and such, and then released them all as ‘damning evidence’ onto Tumblr, claiming that they showed evidence of sexual harrassment and hypocrisy, among other things.

I can’t remember all of the accusations, but some were pretty serious, so I took the time to go through the screenshots and found… very little. there were some distasteful remarks here and there in the form of ‘i wanna kill [insert shaladin]’ that the mods shouldn’t have let slide, and a childish, kinda sexualizing derogatory nickname for the shaladin in question in the form of ‘hunty’, but those two things were really the worst of it. yes, this behaviour was bad and the mods shouldn’t have let it slide or participated in it, but all in all? not worth an entire spyop. if anything, what I found much more damning was that the shaladin (who, as a reminder, was 15 as well) had written a couple of little notes on the screenshots drawing attention to some particular messages of a then 13-year-old anti who said they had a crush on shiro. the notes themselves would’ve been nothing more than childish IF that same 13-year-old hadn’t just come out of a massive dogpiling attack where they were repeatedly misgendered and accused of wanting to have sex with adults themself despite them being a csa survivor. so attempting to throw back to that discourse to ‘prove’ some kind of hypocrisy was distasteful at best and honestly, it did not make them look very good.

so yeah. as you can imagine, the discord members and mods took that very well, and just. for a while, Operation Shalanonymous was this actual Thing, where shaladins were crying that the antis were finally exposed and the antis were accusing the spying shaladin of sending graphic rape porn into the chat to shock users, which the 15-year-old shaladin refuted by saying that they were attempting to get them to do something about it (apparently they were trying to get it taken down or something, but I genuinely have no clue why they thought the antis could help with that, but then again, this whole situation was so far-fetched and there was little evidence provided that this was actually ‘graphic rape porn meant to scar csa survivors’, like the antis claimed either, so like. i don’t fucking know), and accusations went back and forth for a while. it was a mess.

and this, this right fucking here, is hands down the most childish, most distasteful, most useless ship discourse that I’ve ever encountered. not only did someone actually take the time and energy to pretend to be an anti for quite some time in order to ‘spy’ on antis, they also decided to, in all seriousness, release the screenshots under the actual fucking name ‘Operation Shalanonymous’, dropping them like they were the fucking panema papers. like guys??? you know this is the fucking voltron fandom, not goddamn wikileaks, right???? these are not state secrets you’re releasing. they’re screenshots from a fandom chat. it. doesn’t. matter. that. much.

there were some genuinely horrifying things that went down during this whole debacle, and I probably shouldn’t find it as funny as I do, since this really was a prime example of how toxic people can get when they think they’re in the right, especially when the person in question is a teenager (who, again, don’t have the best track record for emotional regulation and foresight). but I just fucking can’t take this shit serious. you gotta remember that a 15-year-old was mostly heading this thing, and it really shows; the whole entire set-up and pay-off was just overwhelmingly childish, and it makes me so, so glad that I wasn’t into fandom at that age, because who knows what shit I would’ve pulled. and I just can’t stop imagining what everyone involved will think of this shit when they’re in their twenties or thirties. because god. ship discourse does not matter this much, guys. it really, really doesn’t, and this whole debacle was nothing but an embarrassment for everyone involved.

so anyway that was hands down the most ridiculous ship discourse I’ve ever witnessed, thanks for coming to my history lesson.

#Anonymous #aro stuff #diskhorse #i see i have some other asks in my askbox as well and i'll answer those tomorrow its too goddamn late here #my posts

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