#like i do know proshippers do get harassed just the same obviously | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

crimson-rain-smoked-flower · 2 years

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I’m not trying to attack you, but do you know that proshipper means someone who supports and romanticizes pedophilia, incest, and abuse? Your reblog on that post seems to read that you think antis just hate on people for having ships they don’t like. But it’s completely different than that. Just looking on the proshipper side of Tumblr and the internet and you can see people happily shipping children and adults and making nsfw content of such things.

i appreciate that you're not being outright hostile, but i have to say, that on its own put you above basically every anti i've interacted with.

i understand where antis are coming from, i really do. there are a lot of things on the internet that make me deeply uncomfortable, including the minor/adult ships that you mention. i don't want to anything to do with those kinds of ships and i would be happiest if i never saw them again. which is why i'm proship.

nine times out of ten, if i see that kind of ship brought up on my dash, it's because i was following an anti without realizing it, and they brought it up unprompted and untagged, to talk about how bad it is that they exist. they are the ones putting that kind of content in front of my face and making it harder to avoid.

the thing about people who ship those ships is that they're generally very aware that not everyone wants to see that kind of content, and so they tag it. they make sideblogs to talk about it. they don't go out of their way to shove it in people's faces. that means i, and everyone else who doesn't like it, can avoid it.

what antis want is for it to not exist at all. they want the tags to be purged and blocked, and for anyone who uses those tags to have their accounts deleted. and sure, that might get rid of some of it, but do you know what would happen to the rest? it would stop being tagged. people who don't want to see it wouldn't have the tools to avoid it. this isn't just a hypothetical, that's what's happened any time a fan space has tried to do that.

that's not even getting into the rabbit hole of what should be banned and what shouldn't. obviously any content that depicts real children or real life abuse shouldn't exist and shouldn't be allowed to be posted, but basically any platform that people use already enforces those policies, and there's not much of a slippery slope to go down there. if it involves real living breathing people being abused, it's bad. end of discussion.

but the same can't be said for fiction. ask ten antis for a specific list of all the content that should be banned, and you'll get ten different answers. what about kink? what about roleplay? what about horror and murder and anything that involves fictional characters being graphically tortured? what about people using art to process terrible things that have happened to them? what about art that uses dark themes as a horror element? if you just want to ban anything questionable to anyone, that's the line of thinking that gets any mention of lgbt existence banned. and again, this isn't just a hypothetical, this has happened before, and that's generally where it leads.

i know, from personal experience, that antis do, in fact, send harassment to people just for shipping things they don't like. i've gotten accused of absolutely vile shit for shipping two fictional characters who were both consenting adults. i've seen ship wars turn into moral battlegrounds, over ships that an average person wouldn't bat an eye at.

the thing about "romanticization" is a whole other can of worms. the anti logic goes like this: if someone sees something (even if it's very obviously fictional) in a positive light enough times, they will start thinking it's okay in real life, and go on to hurt real people. the problem with that is that it's just. blatantly untrue.

if it were true every horror movie fan would be a serial killer, every person that studies dark media would be an unhinged psychopath, and everyone who is into ddlg would be a pedophile. but they're not. they just aren't. people have directed movies just as fucked up as the darkest shit on ao3, and are still capable of being normal human beings who know right from wrong in real life.

even if someone is that impressionable, scrubbing away the existence of every piece of questionable content isn't going to solve their problem, because they're still going to be vulnerable to con men, scams, and cultists. the only thing that would actually materially help someone like that is developing their own morals and critical thinking.

children are also more impressionable, and there's a lot of content that's not suitable for them, but that doesn't mean that content shouldn't exist. it just means that they should stick to spaces designed for them (which most social media sites, tumblr included, are not) or, if they're old enough to be responsible for their experience online, they, or a trusted adult in their lives, should block and filter out things that they aren't comfortable with.

which is what everyone on the internet should be doing. it's what i do, and it's made the internet a much more pleasant place to be. and it's why i sometimes worry for antis mental health, especially teenagers, because they're being told it's right and moral to seek out content that makes them uncomfortable and to engage with the people making it. and that's just. really bad. it's not good for the creators that they're harassing obviously, but it's also really bad for them! it's not healthy to seek out things that make you feel bad, and it's a terrible internet safety lesson to teach minors that it's okay for them to seek out and engage with people making adult content.

individual harassment and crusading is never going to succeed at removing dark content from the internet. it just isn't. at best you might get a small percentage of people who create that content to stop sharing it, at worst you're just going to make people stop tagging it, and either way, you're exposing yourself to things that make you feel bad, when you don't have to.

if you want to materially change the type of content you see, you can. the block button is your friend, use it liberally. same with content filtering and tag blocking.

#oops this got really long #cd.ask #proship #disk horse #tw pedophila mention #uhhh what to tag #tw shipping discourse #this doesn't even get into the antis that i've seen proudly professing that they care more about fictional characters than real people #because i don't know how to explain to someone that real humans matter more than cartoon characters #or how to avoid content on platforms other than tumblr bc frankly thats a lot of the reason i don't use them #i don't trust an algorithm #also im turning anon off after posting this so if you want to send me hate you cant be a coward about it #also be prepared to get blocked and ignored #the only reason i answered this person is bc they weren't being hostile

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venjt · 3 months

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A form of SH? (Self-harm?)

I wouldn't say it's a form of self-harm. Actually, the opposite! It's a form of self-care! From my experience and from friends' experiences, it's a coping mechanism that helps with our trauma. If antis, think we're making fun of the problematic themes that's far, far from truth, and a very harsh thing to think! If people make fun of problematic situations, then that's a problem, and I wouldn't want to associate myself with such a person.

I hope Antis knows that proships are against harassment in general and respect others with different opinions. (Or they should be. That's the definition, lol.) If a proshipper is threatening you, then they're just a shit person and don't belong in a no harassment zone while harassing. Yet somehow, I often see antis like to use their catchphrase "KYS" all the time. I find such attitude to be awful no matter proship/anti/neutral whatever. Harassment is bad. No one deserves to be called a "good person" if someone says awful things to other human beings.

But like I said, it's a selfcare kind of activity in fiction. It's a safe way to control or explore the dark themes in fiction. It's a healthy way to express the trauma without hurting oneself or others. Some antis don't know this, but when you've experienced trauma, it has to come out somehow one way or another. People don't necessarily HAVE to like dark themes to express or cope with their trauma. Everyone copes differently. Some happen to enjoy / cope with taboo subjects in the fictional space. Which there is no shame. Your fictional taste does not reflect your morals (obviously, lol).

This brings me to another topic, Antis, who believes that if a proship likes the taboo subjects in fiction (ex: incest, age gap, what else? Victim and murder? Lol, there's so much that antis doesn't like.), that it means they like it in real life. That's, again, untrue. Your fictional interest doesn't mean you like it in real life. So that brings the question, "Why do they like it in fiction then?". Well, like I said before, often, it's a coping mechanism. Other times, people just like it in the fictional world. Perhaps there's more or less to it, but it's not anyone's job to understand the why. And if you find it uncomfortable thats complety valid! There are some things I find uncomfortable. That's when we have the power to block and remove ourselves from looking and reading things that we are not okay with. LITERALLY. Like we don't have to intrude a "problematic" artists media if we KNOW what they draw! Or read something that says "non-con warning" or anything WITH a WARNING SIGN THATS THE POINT OF WARNING SIGNS AAAH ⚠️

My thing is, if you're a nice person who respects others and doesn't harm others, then you're good in my book lol I don't understand furries, but if they never hurt a person or never been disrespectful to your surroundings then you're gucci. I have some friends who I don't understand their fictional world, but they've been nothing but sweet to me. Who am I to judge their fictional interest if they as a person treat me better than many other actual human beings lol

Also

Proshippers are aware of what's right and what's wrong in real life. We don't like predators, or incest, or victim x murderers in real life. DUH! Antis, we're on the same page. We don't like those kinds of people! We keep telling them, but somehow, many of them can't differentiate reality and fiction, which to me I find that to be a very, VERY big problem in today's time. If the line of fiction and reality is blurred, then how can people express their creative freedom without having to take a chance of being a "problematic person" or getting accused of harsh things. Also HOW YA GONNA FACE REALITY WHEN RENT IS DUE NEXT WEEK?! If a person is a problem to another human being, then that's valid to stand up and speak out. Uh, with evidence ofc. Don't just spread around "so and so is a Predat0r because they like so and so ship." Fiction isn't evidence. People will look at you weird if you claim a person is a problem and provide a drawing of Plantcest LMAO. People are gonna be confused why you're showing a drawing to them.

Policing others on what's right and wrong in a FICTIONAL SPACE like that's a problem itself! They're fighting ghost problems and threatening REAL PEOPLE for their interests, and that doesn't sound like a healthy space for anyone. Activism is good, but to the fictional space where it doesn't affect people in their day to day life if very concerning. Hence, why people say "touch grass".

Not every proshippers are good people. Just like not every antis are good people. Every group have their problems. This whole black and white view is unrealistic. No one is perfect. No victim is perfect. No "unproblematic" person is perfect. The world is grey or as I like the world is rainbow.

This is very long lol

In conclusion, proshippers aren't self harming for indulging dark themes. It's a self-help (many therapists would recommend it). Self-harm is threatening others and policing others what YOU think is okay or not. Self harm is also avoiding your trauma and avoiding your fictional interest because others pressure you to think how they do. You're a person with your own mind. Allow yourself to express how you do and don't let others tell you how to think, feel, and tell you what to do. You're human. I'm human.

FICTION ≠ REALITY and be kind to each other! There's more to life than to get mad over what others like lol take a chill pill and think about what you want to make of this world!

Okay, have a great day, yall!

#ven talks #tw self h4rm #replies #asks #tw proship #proship #proshipper #anti

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pineappleciders · 2 days

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I had hope for you until now. I unblocked you, and I shouldn't have. all I have to say is to please seek help. Theres evidence to the max about zeteroxx being harassed, domar's account has been deactivated due to reports showing that yes, zeteroxx is innocent. We were singing praises until you took the side of someone who is a literal proshipper. Someone who has drawn cp and everything to boot. I feel sorry for you, and I'm disappointed. This is the last time Im going to interact with you in the hopes you change for the better.

HUH???? I DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE??? I LJTERALLY DIDNT DEFEND ANYONE??? WHO HAS DRAWN CP???

literally all that happened was i interacted with someone on zeteroxx's "bad person" list and they dmed me literally just saying that they were harassers and defended this other guy. i was not shown ANY evidence or any form of proof about this but i started blocking them because i wanted to believe them

then i saw a few posts from these people saying zeteroxx keeps posting about these people even after they've asked rhem to leave them alone??? and said that zeteroxx continuously broke rules in servers and misgendered people after continuous reminders. obviously i had no proof of that but i decided that going into people's DMs and telling them to block someone they don't know simply because they make them uncomfortable is extremely childish.

zeteroxx also told people who don't support endogenic systems to kill themselves and then said "don't tell people to kts" the next sentence. i don't know much about systems and DID but i know that you can't develop a disorder like that without some form of trauma.

i never defended anyone on their block list i have no fucking clue why you think i did or what zeteroxx told you. i genuinely do not care if you block me, or if they put me on their block list, go ahead. zeteroxx IS a harasser for continuing to talk about people they had past drama with and forcing others to block them

i have no clue what your drama is with dommar i promise. i literlaly had no idea about anything until zeteroxx told me to block this random person. never once did i take anyones side, i just thought it was creepy that zeteroxx continued to talk about people they have beef with and force others to feel the same way about these people. i have no idea who is a proshipper or draws CP, and i was never given any sort of evidence on anything.

also, i literally do not know who you are. never heard of any of this drama you guys have. i got an ask from ONE person on zeteroxxs list and responded to it and now you guys are telling me to get help😭😭i dont want to get involved in your one sided drama leave me alone

#i do not participate in your drama!!! leave me alone!!!#pineappleciders

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some-pers0n · 6 months

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You do realize Ao3 is inherently a proship space, right? Like one of the people who created it was an incest shipper. I'm not even saying you HAVE to like all content that's on ao3, but getting upset when people on ao3 related forums are talking about the things that ao3 was built for and refuses to censor is nonsensical

Okey now on my PC so I can actually respond to this in a coherent manner. General TW here for talking about pornography relating to minors and sexual topics.

I've seen this argument countless of times from pro-shippers. I do understand it. I know about the history of Ao3. It's mostly a space used because of areas like FanFiction.Net censoring 18+ works and generally leaving way for sexuality of any kind being censored for being deemed too mature, including same-sex couples at some point.

I am not anti-censorship. Not in the slightest. I think there should be sites like Ao3, where people are allowed to post whatever the hell they want. It's the site full of Freaks and Weirdos. It's the place where Freaks and Weirdos made to host their own freaky and weird content because everywhere else was censoring the word "dick". Censorship is a slippery slope and I think it's bad to simply say: "We should ban this" since it leads way to loopholes that our oppressors would want to exploit.

That being said: it's still disgusting to see people making and posting writing of IRL children who had been forced into the limelight have porn made of them. "Oh it's the internet of course it's going to be there" IT'S STILL FUCKED UP THAT IT'S THERE TO BEGIN WITH AND SHOULDN'T BE ENCOURAGED OR CONGRATULATED. It's like seeing somebody make deep-fake porn out of a picture of a child and being like: "Well I mean it's not really being done to an actual child, only a picture of it, and besides it's the internet what can you do :P" THAT IS CHILD PORN.

I'm not sorry for thinking it's hysterical and absolutely pathetic to come whining to a bunch of people that your fic where you wrote a child being raped and turned into a sex toy for a 50 year old man is getting "mean ol' antis" telling them that it's disturbing and gross. Holy shit please find a better way to cope with your trauma than to make writing that is designed to titillate and arouse people with this stuff happening to teenagers.

Not to also mention that Ao3 itself can censor stuff too! Recently that one volunteer got kicked off because they had "from the river to the sea" in their bio because it ""promoted violence"". So it's perfectly okay to have people post about nazis and racist pedophilic shit on there, but to have somebody have a message in their bio??? Shut it down folks.

I respect Ao3 on some level for its insitance on censorship (most times)(unless you support Palestine and don't want an entire culture wiped out then apparently that's bad), but I still find it disturbing and incredibly disgusting how its normalized and how these people have a victim complex. I've seen how they act whenever they're called out for writing gross stuff.

Self-proclaimed proshippers will make antis out like they're moronic teenagers who send death threats to people over writing enemies-to-lovers. Obviously, no, you shouldn't harass people over fictional ships. You shouldn't harass people in general. Harassment over something as simple as a person making a kinky smutty oneshot is dumb. Sending death threats is worse.

It's a mentality that antis are just hysterical and can't think for themselves, brainwashed by sex-negativity and can't just let people be people. Yeah, obviously that's bad. Anybody who sends hate, death threats, and harassment to a person who's just writing normal smut with nothing really bad about it (ie, no children, no incest, nadda nothing), is just stupid. It's ESPECIALLY moronic when it's a ship that is only a smidge problematic. That's stupid.

What isn't stupid is being upset over extremely taboo content being hosted on the site and people just being like: "Well you're just a snowflake anti for saying the author is weird for liking this". I don't think you should deliberately seek content like this out just to hate (again, harassment dumb), but it's so disgusting to act like it's completely fine and dandy for smut of real children to be hosted there and just be like: "Eh, what happens happens".

I'm here on those subreddits just to talk about fanfic and tropes. I like being silly and doing the funny little stuff. What exhausts me more than anything is when people will come whining about getting a hate comment when, surprise surprise, their fic that is mostly children being raped is being hated on for being a fic about children being raped for the sake of sexual pleasure.

Write as much as it as you want, just don't act all surprised and like you're the victim here when people think you're vile.

#ask #anon #anti-ship #long post #tw pedophila mention #tw rap3

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thegoldfiles · 1 year

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I'm getting angry at the anon hate you answered and most of them being like "you're the reason why she's like this, this is why she wants to kill herself"

No, I'M the reason why she wants to kill herself, because I made a callout thread about her on twitter, that reached almost 11k likes. Please don't take it all out on the mobcrit blog. Cause y'all weren't going after them until my thread got a hit tweet, even a bunch of popular fnaf artists saw my tweet. You guys only came cause of Nicole. Unfortunately you can't harass us your way in to save mobox cause she's already been destroyed by me, I have no regrets

To frustrate the anon haters more, I can guarantee y'all no one seems to care about her surviving her suicide. I didn't intend to make her kill herself and no one did, she did that to herself. She's just trying to run away from her problems, it's apart of mental issues and that isn't for us to take care of

Just because someone attempts suicide doesn't mean they're forgiven

I wish she gets better, but some people out there just don't care what happens to mobox and simply won't forgive her. And for you guys who harass the mobcrit blog, you're outnumbered, just from a different platform.

Mobox has done this cause this is exactly what she expects, people to pity her and she'll be forgiven.

For example;

It's like.. if you accidentally hit too hard on your younger sister, she cries and mum comes in. You say "I didn't mean to hit her that hard" but mummy plays favourites and says "look what you've done! You've hurt her! Apologize right now!"

Or, if you got a lollypop but your younger sister didn't get one, so she whines and cries demanding she wants a lollypop too. But instead mum grabs your lollypop and gives it to the younger sister, you get no lollypop, even though the easier solution is to buy another lollypop for the both of you. But mummy has favourites.

Or another analogy: your sister accidentally did a bad thing, let's say she broke mum's favourite cup, you were there when it happened, and you were a witness. Mum comes in infuriated, she demanded to know who broke it, your sister put the blame on you. But it wasn't you, so you say "but she did it! I saw it! It wasn't me!", Let's just say there were cameras in the kitchen so there was footage of who did break it. But mum refused and believed the sister anyways

She gets angry at you, because as I said, she plays favourites and thinks "my daughter couldn't possibly do such a thing!" Even though she didn't see potential proof and didn't listen to what you had to say

These are kinda horrible examples. But these all relate to the entire mobox drama. You guys obviously play favourites and ignore all of the proof we show you. You actually believe mobox changed and wouldn't do such a thing, when there's no evidence she has changed, she only said it once. But she actually doesn't see her past problems as a bad thing. And she still does the same things now, she's even a proshipper for God's sake. She is a grown adult with responsibilities and most of you guys are minors defending her as if she's a baby

This is called guilt tripping and I'm surprised you guys literally don't see it happening. Mobox could of potentially lied Infront of you guys cause Hanna claims she controls moboxs twitter account, when mobox just privated it and put down a very cringey bio. Hanna obviously wouldn't have done that

You guys only care for mobox because she tried to kill herself. As harsh as that sounds, she's what? 23?, And most of you guys are like, around my age or even younger. Mobox is a grown adult who's getting therapy and paying bills, she lives in Mexico. She's just some average adult and we don't know what plays into her fantasies as much as she draws gore porn and child porn. These stuff aren't just "artistic", child porn and rape porn eventually form together when you fantasize it or when it plays into your head. Most of it forms together due to trauma, but if you actually begin to normalise it within yourself and share it amongst other strangers, it becomes a danger and can harm others for it. What's more of a problem is that you guys claim this is normal because it's just a simple drawing, what's normalised is that you draw it with no hesitation as if no one is experiencing the same thing in real life, and you're drawing it because "it doesn't mean I support it in real life", when this is happening because your brain is playing these fantasies and making it erotic. Whether you wouldn't actually do that to a real child/person, you're still a sick person for even drawing that kind of stuff or even being interested in that kind of media

It's not any different if a guy just casually had posters of naked anime children or characters getting raped just hanging around their room, as you guys said, it's all just a drawing. They would never hang it up because they find it sexually arousing, just for display, right? /s

The fact I can tell most of you anon haters have no idea who you're defending. If you had any idea you wouldn't be saying "I'm gonna suffocate you with a pillow" in the mobcrit asks inbox.

I'd appreciate you guys if you actually considered looking at the doc or my twitter thread and listen to what we have to say. It's getting irrational and the defenders of mobox are starting to look like dogs on rabies

If you guys wouldn't support a creator who draws child porn and romantizises rape/abuse, neither would you with mobox. Just, stop. It's over, mobox isn't gonna last, her actions have consciences. So cry about it

^^^^^^

#mod cagney #ask #zombifykid #zombify you dropped this 👑

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louiskechi · 1 year

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alright let’s get this over with

here is a basic summary of all you could possibly need to know about me before you go starting something with me (this will be updated as i see fit)

-trans rights are human rights. this is not up for debate and is a block on sight if you disagree. same goes for black lives matter, and any other basic human rights that people somehow take offense to.

-xenogenders, lesboys/girl gays, mspec lesbians/gays, and all other non traditional or contradictory labels are valid. you can continue being angry that you aren’t allowed to fit queer people into strictly confined boxes all you want, but the long term goal of the queer movement should always be to break down restrictive labels and emphasize being who you are. this applies to neopronouns as well, obviously. all good faith identities are valid. full stop.

-transandrophobia is real. to deny that transmasculine people experience a unique type of transphobia tailored by bigots to specifically target our experiences is complacency. if you engage in hierarchical structures to organize the oppression marginalized people experience (i.e. saying things like “tme people need to shut up for once” when discussing transphobia) is reductive and only divides the community.

-self diagnosing is valid. not everyone has access to psychiatrists, let alone ones who will give a proper assessment. it’s also worth mentioning that both the medical field and the government have a lot of ingrained ableism, which can bar you from access to jobs, and can cause you to lose legal rights and bodily autonomy. (did you know getting an autism diagnosis can prevent you from getting a visa to most countries? it can even get you placed on a mandatory DNR!) accompanying this, i do not care what a system’s origin is. as a plural person, i couldn’t give less of a shit. if you say what you’re experiencing is plurality, i will believe you. trying to determine who “is and isn’t actually plural” does nothing but give fuel to those who will fake-claim us no matter how much proof we provide. you are helping divide our community and prevent mentally ill people from getting support that could save their lives.

-proshippers are annoying as fuck and i hate you all. no, you are not “just anti harassment,” in fact it’s a favorite hobby for quite a few of you. i do not identify as “anti ship” but having an integral part of your identity being that you think shipping a grown man with a child is fine tells me something about you that you somehow haven’t realized about yourselves. and no, you being a trauma survivor does not absolve you of abhorrent behavior. at this point it’s not even the content itself that worries me, it’s the relationship you people have with it. you can’t even handle the most mild criticism or discomfort about it. quit bragging about how uncomfortable you make everyone and really evaluate yourself.

-lolicon/shotacon is pedophilia. if you have some sort of objection to that you should really be looking up direct translations of the words you choose to identify yourselves with. terminology aside, no matter how much you try to insist “fiction doesn’t always effect reality,” that fictitious drawing of child rape is certainly effecting the reality of your now-erect cock. consider checking yourself before you get checked into a correctional facility.

-paraphiles deserve understanding and recovery. you are not going to eliminate things like pedophilia and zoophilia by arresting them, or worse, killing them, for feelings they can’t control. the solution to these things is easy access to therapy so they can work through those feelings and hopefully be rid of them one day, or at least no longer be a threat. most paraphiles do not want their paraphilia much less to act on them, and even those who do will not benefit from incarceration.

-the way some of you engage with fictional characters is disgusting. no, vriska serket was not a “girlboss” for telling the person she physically disabled to “apologize for being cr*ppled.” no, you do not think valentino is “just a really interesting villain” when i can see you talking about how sexy he is in the scene where he rapes the protag, followed by woobifying him and never addressing his actions at all. please get off the internet. it is genuinely disturbing the way you talk about these characters and it makes me deeply concerned about how you would act if you ever learned to shut off your computer. and yes, it is that deep.

#trans rights #black lives matter #xenogenders are valid #etc #im too tired to write it all out again #fuck proshippers #argue with me if you want

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squipy · 1 year

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Oh boy I'ma get cancelled for this but like anyways we're talking about proshipping...again

Ya know what's odd I like the IDEA behind what proshipping stands for basically ya know don't harass people over what they ship even if it seems problematic to you. See that is fine to me THE ISSUE IS WHEN PROBLEMATIC BECOMES OUTRIGHT DANGEROUS!!!!! so for example a big surprise to literally no one I'm a self Shipper and a lot of my romantic F/O's are villains who have done some shitty things which can be seen as problematic such as for example I don't think a robotic wolf with an ego trying to murder a child is exactly #unproblomatic but see that's the thing EVERY SINGLE HUMAN is problematic we aren't perfect we make mistakes and with that in mind that means that good written Fiction Characters are also by design problematic in some way just some more than others. THE ISSUE IS WHEN PROSHIPPERS ARE SAYING ITS OKAY FOR SOMEONE TO SHIP A CHILD AND AN ADULT TOGETHER!!?!? OR TWO BROTHERS!!??!? that's where I have an issue because at this point you are romanticizing these very serious fucking issues!!! It kinda reminds me of ya know violence in cartoons almost. I'ma use Steven universe as an example sense I've been thinking about that a lot. Steven universe shows a fantasy violence that is based on real use of these weapon's but is shown in a way where the child or adult watching it doesn't have a need to do these things in real life. NOW with proshipping that's the issue here you are Putting these not sure problematic things but straight up ILLEGAL things in a good light. Now now I know what your about to say "well death and murder is shown in fictional media all the time why is that okay" okay sure good question you wanna know why BECAUSE IT'S NEVER SHOWN AS A GOOD THING?!!?!!? for example in the new puss and boots movie it's never seen that what death is doing is good he's the antagonist. When you make these ships between an adult and a child you aren't putting it in a way that the viewer can obviously tell "okay this is just a really dark headcannon the person behind this headcannon obviously does not think this is a good thing* but no instead you guys make these edits with up beat sexual music. Now another argument you may make is "well people simp for fictional murderers why is that okay??!??" Again good question and this might be different for everyone but for me murderer is seen as an obvious bad thing but again I feel like people aren't into the character because there a murderer but because of other factors. Unlike proshipers who will be into a shipping dynamic straight up just because it's child x adult or sister x mom or whatever. It's honestly the same reason why I personally don't like the yandere Troupe because it puts the idea of straight up murder and toxic possessiveness in a positive light.

#anti proshitter #anti proshipping #anti proship #wow this was long

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aoharuxtoygun · 1 year

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Regarding the incest post. Feel free to delete this ask, no hard feelings but

Even if the twins ended up in an incestuous relationship, you or your twin would very much not be involved in it. Like,, incest shippers and shippers in general are not thinking of real people when they’re shipping fictional characters. Naoe isn’t involving you or any other real person with a twin in her story any more than she’s involving,, idk a random guy with short black hair in Poland for writing Yuuki

I mean, I get it, I’m not saying you have to ship the hosokawa twins. I just think the sentiment of “I have a twin so it’s gross” is,, how do I call it? Misplaced? Like, when I ship Yuuki and Masamune, I’m not thinking of my two friends that share a hobby, I’m thinking of Yuuki and Masamune The Characters. I’m not thinking that just because I’m blond and my best friend likes manga, that means we’re suddenly set for a romantic relationship, you know?

This is the "proshipper" mindset that actually made a lot of the mods leave since we've gotten asks before trying to justify fictional pedophilia so I guess trying to justify incest isn't a big shock.

This actually harms people and it's really gross. I've had people randomly harass both my twin and I. Sorry but, that's sick and twisted please get help if you actually ship siblings and think even siblings romantically interacting fictionally is ok. Obviously something in the back of your mind is justifying and attracted to the thought fictionally so odds are you're looking at real people the same way. Even if you don't act on it.

Long story short, get off my blog we don't support that stuff here.

~ Mod Yukki

"Gargle my balls"

~ Mod Haruki

P.s if you actually stood behind this belief and believed it to be ok, I doubt you would be hiding behind anon ❤️

#blocking you and this is a message to the others that I'll block you too ❤️

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batsarebetterthanpeople · 11 months

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man, what even is an anti? anti what? I was busy doing real life in 2014-19 and when I got back everything was different like I entered the twilight zone. I don't understand what's going on and at this point I'm afraid to ask. do I even want to know?

and proship? like... ships? relationships? so anti ships? they're against shipping? is this like a "no slash" situation? I watched an hour long youtube video about it and still it makes no sense to me.

Ok so as I understand it a proshipper is someone who thinks you should ship whatever you want no limits and an anti is someone who thinks that liking bad guys or problematic ships makes you a bad person.

Now obviously I don't think that identifying with either of these labels is useful. I'm an adult with a job and two side hustles and friends and hobbies and a revolving door of men rearranging my guts I don't have the time to be making my whole identity about something like that, even if I do occasionally indulge in fandom drama. I also think that this is one of the few things that I'm a centrist on actually. I don't think you should be a dick to people based purely on their shipping habits or the characters that they like HOWEVER I also don't think that we should allow marginalized groups to be pushed out of fandom because we insist on treating marginalized characters a certain way.

So the person who made an attempt at doxxing an Izzy guy on Twitter was in fact an honest to god anti. I've seen their tweets and their issue was very clearly the enjoyment of villains in general rather than any actual problem with the person they were coming for, or even with Izzy specifically (they mention Jack stans as well as if there were many of those back when it occurred and they mentioned things that dont apply to Izzy or Jack but just general anti talking points iirc) I can't think of an example of an honest to god proshipper off the top of my head I'm sure they exist and are also insane. Most people are not one of these two groups. Most fans just read fic and occasionally have ethical problems with the things they read and respond by closing the fic and maybe making a vague post about it if they're bothered

However some people have started using anti to mean "anyone who dislikes a character" or dumber yet aka how they use it for me "someone who doesn't necessarily dislike a character just has criticisms of specific fan behavior and calls it out when they see it."

But calling me an anti is very plainly absurd. I picked the grossest white man I could find and made him my PFP and let him kiss my favorite character in my header. I have never in my life shied away from problematic ships or from villain enjoyment. I've shat on specific ships that I don't like, even on a moral basis in the past, but I'm also a stridercest girlie because I don't believe in applying moral axiums to Homestuck and I've written multiple Blackhands fics because I enjoy putting Ed in situations I like how he handles them he's very cerebral and dramatic and he enjoys pageantry.

But basically Izzy stans who get in a tizzy about fandom typical Anon harassment have made their entire pr strategy for painting themselves as somehow oppressed pretending everyone who doesn't like them has the same exact views and motives as the Twitter doxxer so they never have to wonder if maybe we're right when we criticise them for painting Ed as a violent abuser or say that insisting so hard that very plainly and obviously homophobic things aren't homophobic is starting to come off like a hit dog hollering.

TL;DR: if you pretend everyone who doesn't like you is an insane puriteen who hates fun, even if that's provably and categorically untrue, you now have an excuse not to listen to them.

#the izcourse #pro and anti ship discourse

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lehhoh7822 · 2 years

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maybe i am just a weirdo and am being a Bad Person but like

I feel like banning proship shit and starting to censor other ao3 shit is a realllllllll fucking slippery slope

like- what happens then? do we get a council that starts filtering fics? are we going to get a site split and send those writers away? is this a stepping stone to things like... censoring gore and censoring just general ships?

how do we define proshipping? i don’t want to engage with the discourse, just because then i would just die of like “every single fic I have ever read must make me a bad person ive read smut before ive definitely touched at least one problematic things before i am such a bad person” but even so, i feel like the line is more blurry than we think it is? i get the genuine idea that “proshippers believe that fiction doesn’t impact reality!!!!” but what does that translate to in a shipping part?

i look at ao3 like an archive, instead of a social media site, it’s a record of transformative works, and part of that record will be problematic ships and that type of content if that is part of the fandom, right? its not a social media site, either

i definitely get that problematic fanworks can be used for awful things and have definitely caused hurt, and i get that dldr cant apply all of the time because at all times there is going to be someone who does not tag, there is someone who uses character tags, youre new to the fandom and you don’t know to filter out things, i 100% get it

but i feel like proshipping- like as a concept, harassment does not work, or it does but in like an awful way. i would hate to think that due to one of my moral principles about something on the internet caused someone to want to harm themself, because otherwise, I really doubt that a lot of people who have already got the subcommunity that creates this content are going to be really convinced by comments telling them how morally wrong their interests are is going to change due to this

why would we change this? like... would the impact be that we just alienate this part of fandom? because in that case, if proshipping and problematic content is the worst thing in fandom, isn’t that actually worse? doesn’t that just isolate large swaths of people who might have been, in theory exploited or groomed by these communities? because i can almost 100% guarantee that this would just lead to another website or something else, getting around tags and still posting it there, etc, etc, etc. this content will not stop with suppression, I just think that it would get more isolated. if you leave a community on itself and dont engage with it other than with scorn or mocking (which is what we already do, and look what that does) it will just- there’s no sounding board, and this idea of like... they just hate us, no matter what we do, the other part of this group will just hate us- which is obviously not a good thing

alongside this, doesn’t it make the moral part worse? if you start fandom like this, and then you gotta make that transfer to general fandom, isn’t a large stigma going to develop about being a bad person, making the transition out of these communities harder? is being a proshipper an isolated identity, where if you create or consume problematic content or believe in proshipper ideologies (god that sounds fucked up), you no longer have the same engagement with regular fandom??

so, yeahhh. while the board changes, i think that that would be fucked up and bad, i think that would be a bad change because it would just make the problems that exist in theory worse! you have the isolated content problem and the “how?? where is the line of proshipper content” problem (ive met different people who draw the line differently so) yeah

uh not a good idea

if my language feels too neutral here, it’s because I don’t know enough about either communities to be like: oh okay this is exactly how i feel, these are the exceptions, etc, and I know enough about problematic discourse for some fandoms and thats what ive based this post on

if you want to critique and shit go for it but like there isnt really proshipper stuff i care too much about, and i dont want to do genuine discourse, this just was like opinion vomit so yeah

if thats block worthy for you (not really caring about proshippers) go for it

#ao3 #ao3 board of directors change over #proshipping #proshippers #and for like #due purposes #ill tag the ither side as well #anti proship #anti proshipping #also for the sake of those who dont want this on their dash #long post #discourse #cw proshipping

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spitefulcrepechan · 3 years

Text

Buckle up everyone yer girl's about to beat a dead horse.

Ok so one thing that kinda disappoints me is the fact that the cookie run fandom kinda forgot the fact that Moonlight's not a goddess of the moon, but rather an entity who guards a city of wizards via sleeping.

Yeah, she has a very apparent moon aesthetic but thats cuz the moon has heavy associations with magic, it doesn't mean she's from the moon or anything. Other than magic, the moon is also associated with sleep, and Moonlight is more powerful when she's asleep, so it'll only make sense to make a magic narcoleptic themed around the night.

Everyone just sees that Sea Fairy is attracted to the moon and believe that Moonlight is said moon.

And not only does Moonlight not have Sea Fairy in her relationships

Nowhere does it say she's from the moon or anything. She was probably made with moonlight, but again moonlight is associated with witchcraft and wizardry, and it says here that she was created by ancient wizards, presumably with moonlight, hence the bloody name.

While I do like seamoon, its pretty shitty to say that its a canon ship without even the slightest bit of evidence and bash people for not shipping it, when there's more evidence to support that Seamoon is and probably never will be canon then that they'll ever BE canon.

The only two forms of evidence i can find of Seamoon being even vaguely implied is the fact that Sea Fairy has Moonlight in her relationships, but as stated above, those feelings are one-sided and it never explicitly says that she's in love with Moonlight, just the fact that she trusts her.

Sea Fairy probably only likes her cuz she was made with moonlight, which uh

Dunno about you but that's kinda shotty

"Oh but trust obviously means they're in love, you're just a lesbophobic bitch who can't understand co-"

Yah wanna fucking explain this then?

Or this?

Hell, even with characters that we know arent children, I dont see people shipping people like Spinach and Carrot together GODDAMN

Can you use relationships as a basis to ship two cookies? Yes, yes, you can. But you also don't HAVE to, such as with the Angel x Devil ship where Angel trusts Devil while Devil sees Angel as a rival

But uh idk kinda common sense to not harass and call someone lesbophobic just cuz they don't ship seamoon and claim that its canon due to the "lesbian-coding" sea fairy has.

1. Sea Fairy has no such thing, she doesn't even have any links that so much as hint towards any form of love towards woman.

2. Either shit or get off the pot

Lesbian-coding imo, or sexuality coding in general, is kinda bullshit because if you want so badly to tell someone that this character is one thing, just flat out say it, quit feeding us breadcrumbs and expect us to be satisfied. Why do you have to make every single goddamn thing vague and implied? How hard is it to just flat out tell us that yes this character is not straight or cis? Sod off.

Devsisters doesn't even code their characters, they either leave it fully up to interpretation or flat out say that "yeah, these two are in a relationship", but even then yah don't have to follow canon, except when it comes to ages of course.

Moonlight nor Sea Fairy aren't coded to be together or even lesbians because nO SUCH CODING EVEN EXISTS AND EVEN IF IT DID IT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT BECAUSE IT'S IMPLICATION NOT BLUNTNESS AND ITS VERY SHOTTY IMPLICATION AT BEST

If you wanna ship Seamoon regardless of all this? Go ahead, I'm right along with yah. If we don't have to folllow the canon that almond and roguefort have tension together, you don't have to follow the canon that sea fairy and moonlight aren't actually together and you can headcanon them to be lesbians if you wish.

But uh I DON'T KNOW maybe don't attack people for not having the same headcanon as you??? And maybe don't throw "Lesbian-coding" as the bullshit evidence of that ship being canon?? Cuz there's no evidence of Sea Fairy nor Moonlight being lesbian coding???? The fuck's wrong with you people-

Unless you can prove to me with screenshotted evidence that seamoon is explicitly canon, it's all just fanon and heresy that sea fairy and moonlight are together. Leave Seapirate shippers alone, leave seafire shippers alone, leave every single shipper where they don't ship Sea Fairy or Moonlight cookie, regardless of their pronouns, alone. And before you go on a tangent about them being shipped with men, he/him lesbians exist, gender does not equal pronouns, you can go by they/them pronouns and still identify as a cisgender woman, and even if the shipper has the cookie shipped with either Moonlight or Sea Fairy headcanonned as a male, WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER

WLW representation needed??? BITCH WE HAVE ALL THE WLW REPRESENTATION WE NEED and what about stuff like Pan or Poly representation too? Don't polymorphic people deserve some kind of representation too? Bi people? Asexual people??? You're so concerned about lesbians having representation that you're forgetting about all the other sexualities that could also fit into wlw as well. It's woman loves woman, not lesbian loves lesbian.

So long as people ain't shipping children with adults(looking at you, proshippers. Go to hell) let people ship whoever the fuck they want.

God one minute im talking about an overseen moonlight fact and then im talking more about how people shouldn't gatekeep i promise I'll post something more lighthearted next-

#cookie run #cookie run discourse #just thought i needed to drop this anvil

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akadreamie · 3 years

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it's not abuse, its people calling you out for being apart of a community that can view minors in the light of a romantic lens because y'all want to be able to ship whoever you want because you're freaks. so yeah you are gonna get death threats for being a pedophile because aint no one fucking with pedos

Okay. So there are a few points on this that I'm going to be covering since the anon that left this in my inbox obviously doesn't understand a thing they're saying.

"it's not abuse."

When someone sends literal death threats to another person over the internet - another person that they know little to nothing about - it is abuse. The definition of abuse is ;; to treat someone with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly. For antis to come into my inbox over and over again, telling me to off myself and accusing me of being a child predator over fictional content...I'm pretty sure that falls into line with the definition of abuse. Not only is it violent and cruel to say such things to a person, but it is done over and over again. Maybe not by the same person, but antis will ( more often than not ) dog-pile specific proshippers and harass them with the intent of bullying them off the internet.

They know exactly what they're doing. They know that their abuse and harassment will stretch on for longer than just the specific threat they one may send, because it's multiple antis that are partaking in said harassment and threats.

"it's people calling you out for being apart of a community that can view minors in the light of a romantic lens because y'all want to be able to ship whoever you want."

By you saying that, you're basically trying to say that every single person that identifies themself as being a proshipper is a child predator. You obviously have no idea what the actual meaning / definition of a proshipper is. I would describe it here in detail for you, but I think I would rather redirect you to this post that I made a while back.

Not that you'll actually read it or care ( because I know how 99% of you antis are ), but at least I can say I tried, right.

Anyway - people are allowed to ship whatever they want in fiction. Fiction isn't real. Fictional characters aren't getting harmed if someone decides to ship them, because they don't exist. They aren't real people. You and every other anti needs to realize that fictional characters don't have rights. Yet here you are - acting as though fictional characters have the same rights as actual human beings. Not only that, but you act as though liking something in fiction = supporting it in real life. Which, again, isn't the case.

"because you're freaks."

Just saying, who do you think would be considered the freak in this case. Someone who ships fictional characters in the comfort of their own spaces, isn't harming anyone, and is just trying to live their life. Or someone that goes around harassing, abusing, giving death threats, accusing innocent people of being child predators, and then acts as though it can be justified.

In case you can't be bothered to think on what the answer would be, I'll tell you. The person considered to be a 'freak' in this case is the latter of the two.

"so yeah you are gonna get death threats for being a p/dophile because aint no one f/cking with p/dos"

Ah, so you're really just gonna try and justify death threats now? I figured as much. Trying to act like you and your people are somehow in the right for egging innocent people on into offing themselves. Encouraging them to harm themselves, wishing harm upon them, wishing death upon them. Because that's definitely something that people who care about others do.

And I know - you don't care about proshippers - but come on now. You can't honestly think for a second that what you're doing is right, can you? Please tell me you don't actually think this is something you should be doing. Please tell me you're not that stupid -

But wait, there's more! You're also, once again, accusing every proshipper of being a child predator. Just like I said you antis do before in this post. Wow! Funny how I was right about that, huh. Almost like I know the lot of you are abusers. Almost like I know you guys don't actually care about real life minors because if you find a minor proshipper...you abuse them too.

Anyway - here's the 'food for thought' from me for the day.

To this anon - get off my account. Stop hunting down me and other proshippers to harass. The block button exists for a reason.

Goodbye.

#proship #pro ship #proshipper #pro shipper #proshipping #pro shipping #anti anti #anti anti safe #proship safe #pro ship safe #anti ship hate #anti harassment #anti ship harassment #anti purity culture #anti purity police #tw: p/dophilia mention #tw: abuse #stop accusing innocent people #just antis being antis

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ghost-shipping · 3 years

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The whole point I was making is that proshippers will make light and by make light I mean portray shit like that in a good light as if it’s ideal and desirable. And most of the proshippers I have personally met had confessed to wanting to try that shit out or hoping some of that shit would get done to them. And I’m sorry something I had witness was a “weak take” and yes the creator of those a hentais really shouldn’t have made them, I’m for watching porn and consuming sexual media as long as it’s not fucked up to that point, bc how many others have consumed that media to the point where they need to act upon their thoughts? And ofc this is going to apply to their real life bc fiction in fact does have that power. If you push pass the excuse that “these are just fictional characters and aren’t real” and think about the how the media you consume can affect your critical thinking, proshipping isn’t as innocent as anti antis try to make it out to be. And I’m not saying everyone is like this but a vast majority of people are susceptible to being conditioned

I apologize for not leading with condolences in my original post. Upon rereading it I do think it came off as pretty insensitive. I did not mean to imply that what you experienced was “a weak take” I meant the logic you’re using to analyze the situation itself is flawed. Obviously I do not wish sexual harassment upon anyone, let alone from family members, and I’m incredibly sorry that happened to you. I do think I got caught up in how deliberately snotty the use of your emoji’s was and how pretentious the subtext of your argument is but that’s no excuse to potentially come off like I don’t care about assault.

For the sake of argument though, let’s say you’re correct in that everyone is just super open to being conditioned to do things/be okay with things that go against the moral codes they’ve developed irl. Wouldn’t there be way more people okay with murder? There’s an awful lot of murder that’s over glorified and only there to be cathartic in fiction. Violent videogames have been shown to potentially increase general aggression, but don’t really affect people’s actual physical actions. There are tons of works of art where violence is there for the sake of it and not even in a negative way, but regardless of how many gorey movies or violent comics a person enjoys, they still react differently to real violence. Because it’s real and therefore elicits a different response.

People with good critical thinking skills and a solid grasp on reality consume problematic media and understand that if what they were viewing was happening irl they would have a different emotional response to it. I mean you’re literally talking to an incest shipper who’s repulsed at the idea of committing incest irl, for example. And if you’re about to say “well murder is different because i’m talking about bad things that are sexual in nature” then I’m afraid you’re missing the point. Because while that’s a line many people are free to draw in the sand for themselves, many people are also unbothered or are interested in bad sexual things in fiction in the same way they can be interested in fictional murder. And these “proshippers wanting to do things/wanting things to be done to them” are usually either talking in fictional hypotheticals or are referring to kink rp where there are safeguards to experience things safely.

But again, even if someone did actually commit a crime because they were influenced by a piece of art, that is not the artists fault. “They shouldn’t have made those anime because someone was hurt” every piece of media has the potential to hurt someone. If a work has themes or content that a person is not stable enough or critical enough to handle in a healthy way then they were not the intended audience, and random unrelated people trying to express themselves/make a living/both are not at fault for other people’s actions. A person should always be held accountable for their own actions if they are directly harmful to others, but in this scenario that is your sibling, not people who you don’t know on the other side of the world drawing anime titties for an unreasonably small check.

Btw the implication of your argument seems to be that most people are too stupid to make choices and think for themselves when it comes to fiction, they they are beneath you who clearly has The Real Morals and A Good Brain, and it’s both condescending and is the same rhetoric used against women reading novels back in the day. People literally thought women were too stupid to tell what was real and what was fake and that this would make them commit adultery and be sinful. You and your friends who “ship the correct ships” are not the arbiter of morals or what other people can handle in fiction.

#ask #long post #incest mention #assault mention #god please dude people are responsible for themselves it's that simple #Anonymous

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gendercunt-archive · 3 years

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hey sorry if this is bad to ask you don't have to answer if it makes u uncomfortable but did sparklekitty-stims do something bad?? i obviously dont wanna support them if theyve done something harmful and it would be helpful if you could explain what the issue is since i cant find anything wrong just by searching and stuff. thanks and sorry if this was wrong to ask i just wanna know what happened

This post has been updated to show sparklekitty-stims correct pronouns!! He does not use they/them!

It’s a totally fine question! He didn’t do anything like awful so if you want to support him that’s fine, I just don’t want you interacting with me if you do because he did some really shitty stuff to me in dms and he has an extremely entitled attitude about his terms, I just don’t want people interacting with me that agree with like,, harassing people because they relate with a term you coined and happen to be someone that you dislike (even though they’re not on your DNI)

But to answer what he DID, he harassed me in dms because I “broke his DNI,” which I didn’t do. I used to have anti-shippers on my DNI, and while I don’t owe anyone a detailed recounting of any trauma and negative experience I might have, I don’t like aggressive anti shippers, they freak me out and I don’t want them interacting with me.

He took antis being on my DNI to mean I’m a proshipper, I get that, it’s happened before, which is why I also had on the same bullet point in my DNI “I’m not a proshipper, antis are just a very aggressive group and they scare me, please leave me out of shipcourse, I don’t want to talk about it.”

But he insisted again and again no matter how much I explained that I’m not a proshipper that I really am and that I’m triggering him and that if I don’t take down the reblog he’s gonna “warn the mogai community about [me].” I ended up taking down the reblog because I’ve been the target of harassment on tumblr before and I am very not in the headspace to do that again, especially not on a non-discourse blog that I consider a safe space for me (update, he totally lied, I took down the post and he’s still made a callout chock full of misinfo about me)

So tl;dr it’s not that he’s inherently bad, it’s that I really dislike him and his attitude and he really hurt me and I just don’t want you interacting if you agree with him or are friends with him

#I had more stuff in the tags but it included the wrong pronouns #and I don’t want to leave stuff where he’s misgendered #I apologize

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rpbetter · 3 years

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You make some really good posts!! Can I ask something about DNIs? I know it's not directly RP-related, but I have trouble as an RPer with how many DNIs, with urls, there are now. I try not to interact with muns who have them, I block them, because it feels manipulative? But I'm also tempted to block people who follow those muns, because they probably think their DNIs are okay to have, so they're still "bad", just not as bad? Do you think that's overkill, am I shooting myself in the foot?

Oh, thank you! I'm very happy you've enjoyed them!

And, of course, ask anything at all!

I think, ultimately, the answer to whether that's overkill is entirely dependent on what your experience is and if you're happy with it. I don't think it is overkill at all, but if you feel like it is costing you too many mutuals, it might be overkill for you.

I'm a pretty insular RPer, I like a handful of close writing partners that I write a lot of threads with, so, having something like, under ten writing partners is great for me while it's miserable for other muns. I can go wild on blocking and not have it negatively impact my enjoyment, but I know that's not the case for everyone!

And I do, actually, I do go pretty wild with the blocking when it comes to things like DNIs. If it comes off as policing to me, not just something like a difference of opinion or a strong opinion on something, I'm going to block. Otherwise, it's just recognizing that this isn't a mun I'm going to work out with, but no hard feelings. With policing though...I don't want that anywhere near me or my mutuals, so, it's going to be a block.

Because they do tend to be in these odd, like, nested situations lol I totally will spend the effort if their DNI is bad enough to look at the muns they interact with and make sure I don't have future contact with them either. The RPC is such a big place, making it easier to forget URLs than to remember them, but it's also a place where we establish circles of contact, making it easier to run into the same group repeatedly. I feel like it's better for my peace of mind to be a little more certain than not at all that this isn't going to happen as easily.

If that DNI etc. has been so awful, I definitely don't require their mutuals professing the same beliefs as loudly as they are. If you interact with someone, maybe you don't know their pet fish's name or the obscure lore in a headcanon they posted five years ago or the rule they updated without telling anyone, but you do know what is on their pinned post or blog description or rules. At some point, we all visit each other's blogs in dash-view if nothing else when we're getting replies or checking for memes they might have posted, going through their tags, whatever. I do not believe that you're mutuals who reblog from each other often, reply frequently to each other, ship each other's muses and so forth, and all this time, you've somehow failed to notice your bestie mun is telling proshippers to die in their DNI lmao

No, you've seen it. And I find it extremely hard to believe, too, that it's never come up in conversation OOC either.

So, this hypothetical mutual is so oblivious to others, completely agrees with the other one's views while not feeling confident enough to share them publicly, or is scared enough of the other one that they won't disagree...and no matter which/which combination that might be, they're not a mutual I want.

Especially when it comes to a DNI with someone's URL in it. Hard pass on anyone who is okay with that!

If I visited a writing partner's blog, let's say this person is also my closest friend, I value them and the threads I have with them so much, and I saw that in their DNI they had dropped someone's URL? We would have to talk. I'd have to bring it up because it's the right thing to do (and would also be highly out of character for any of my friends, thus very concerning). There would have to be a question posed about what happened here, why did you feel like this was a good choice, and do you think it's increasing or lessening the problem to have that there?

Honestly, sometimes people do get so upset about something that has happened that their worst impulses are let loose freely. When you ask someone you have an established relationship with about that, unless you're being really hateful about it right off, it can help them settle down, take a step back, and see that this is maybe not the right action to take. To me, silence says you're okay with it.

When muns started putting more elaborate DNI's in, that alone rubbed me the wrong way because I genuinely do not think that the majority of that information is at all necessary. It's something I can see and fully understand minors doing, not because they're terrible or anything but because the impulses and rationale are just different. You're very much geared to be as loud as possible about things that are important to you, making them a part of you in a huge way, as a teenager. Shit just is unreasonably intense! But as an adult, I expect that behavior to be different. You don't actually need to say on your RP blog's DNI that "transphobes WILL be blocked!!!"

Well, yes, I should hope so lol we're a community filled with muns who are trans, I'd certainly hope you were not cool with that kind of thing. It's one of those assumptive states, it goes without saying because, in a group of legitimate adults, it literally doesn't have to be said that a trans mun in a group of trans muns in a RPC filled with trans muns would be intolerant of transphobic assholes.

And, no one likes a damn transphobe, it's not like this stunning, fresh information, here. Not making such a statement does not, in fact, act as a welcome.

Saying that, and I do not mean literally just that, it's just an example of the type of things found in a common DNI, is a little immature for me. Some of those things are, in addition to being purely self-validating: playing into the fear created by policing, virtue signaling, policing, or baiting. And all of them are pointless. Telling someone who would already be bigoted toward you and others to not interact if they somehow miraculously ID as whatever label that takes for them to not interact with your posts is waving a metaphoric red flag in front of a bull. Kind of like tagging a post as either "antis don't interact" or "proshippers don't interact." Actual quickest and most assured way to get that interaction!

I totally understand the age thing, it's self-protecting. Most people do respect it, but when they don't, you've clearly stated that this is not for whatever age group. Things pertaining to your writing and/or muse I also understand and think are great for a quick glance before someone even gets to the rules. Having in a DNI something like "muns who are easily triggered by gore" when you write a horror muse, for instance. You're advising them that this isn't a great idea for them, and it shouldn't be expected that you change your muse and topics because they decided to follow anyway.

But it became excessive very quickly, and there is the expectation that blogs have a DNI. The further expectation is that there be a specific list of things found in that DNI, if yours does not include it, you obviously don't have a problem with those things. I really cannot be okay with that, you know?

However, when it wasn't being used as a callout or a way to police, that was something that could just be ignored. Once URLs of other RPers started to appear, it was a whole other problem.

It used to be the pervading rule of the RPC that it is not alright to force other muns to chose between you and another mun that you had an issue with, but now we have DNIs with other muns' URLs in them. Now, it's the opposite take - if you have an issue with a URL being dropped in a DNI, or if you continue to interact with the mun, you're likely to get a callout or be on the receiving end of other bullying.

So, I very much think the self-insulating thing to do is to avoid those mutuals as well as the RPer with the URL-laden DNI. They could just block you, but is someone who was so juvenile as to put another mun's URL in their damn DNI going to be mature enough to do that? Will their friends once they complain about you? For me, it's too high of a risk of being around muns I wish would take a very long break from RP and only come back once they've grown up some.

I would never advise anyone to do something that is erring on the side of getting them into harassment water unnecessarily (as in, not something that pertains to digging in your heels and writing what you want or not tolerating bullying where you see it happening), and I feel like not doing what you are is that. However, I also am a firm believer in agency, even to make mistakes.

So, if you genuinely feel like blocking mutuals of someone with a URL-dropped/callout/other highly offensive and bullying thing in their DNI is costing you so many chances to RP that you're no longer enjoying yourself here? You might want to consider adjusting how widely you are blocking.

If that's the case, try going for mutuals who are what I call Casual Mutuals and leaving them open. Those are mutuals that the mun doesn't write with often or at all, they're technically mutuals because they both follow each other, but that's it. There might be some liking of posts or even comments or non-committal, OOC style memes sent in by Casual Mutuals, but that interaction is sparse and, yep, casual. These mutuals might legitimately be unaware of the mun's hateful, bullying bullshit in the DNI, or they are actually afraid to unfollow/block them at this point, so their option feels like staying around as quietly as possible.

With that last deal...you could even be doing someone a favor, Anon. When I've encountered that situation before, it's come about because the other person's Casual Mutual is painfully anxious, shy, and a previous victim of bullying. They feel isolated, they don't have many or any writing partners, and they really, truly, are terrified to distance themselves in a way that might be noticed. It's a type of toxic interaction that rarely gets mentioned in PSAs, presumably because it is so low on the actual interaction scale.

Giving them someone else in their corner, especially if that other mun is more open about their intolerant stance on bullying, can go a long way toward giving someone else confidence. I've had other people's Casual Mutuals become my Casual Mutuals and wouldn't you know it? After a while, they get braver. They see my friends and mutuals doing our thing without any of the bullying going on, they see us supporting anti-policing and not tolerating bullying, and they get brave enough to unfollow the hateful mun. It feels nice to even inadvertently help someone, and over the years, some of those Casual Mutuals have become great writing partners, too. People I would have missed if I had made the choice to block them by the association of a hateful mun they were trapped in the orbit of.

Just try to exercise caution! You seem like a reasonable person who doesn't mind truly thinking on things or doing the work required to be cautious. Assume the close mutuals are a problem, too, and block away. Build a wall with some razor wire on it with those blocks! Don't assume the low-interaction, very casual mutuals are, though. Check out their blogs for signs of agreement with Hateful Mun, and if they don't have any, give them a shot as far as just leaving them unblocked goes.

I also have to say, here at the end, that it's extremely nice to see that people out there are doing this. Honestly would have thought I'd be the last person to encourage a ton of blocking, but that's the environment of the RPC now, and it's really the only way we can deal with this issue. You can't reason with these people, you can't stop them, you can only stay away from them for your own good and send a message that this isn't benefiting them. Not everyone agrees with them, they're not going to keep having people left open for their attacks or their RP entertainment. And if enough people are just walling them off, that is a message they'll have to receive because RP runs on interaction with others.

They might think they want every "nasty ass" xyz Problematic RPer to block them, not interact, or vanish from their view of the RPC, but I don't think they realize what that really looks like. What it looks like is a huge percentage of the RPC missing, including people they didn't realize were "problematic." We tend to be quieter, wanting to stay in our own lanes and actually enjoy the hobby and each other. That's why they have to resort to shit like making everyone pre-guilty, or setting up traps to catch people out on being "gross."

So, I genuinely do not think they're prepared for the rude awakening of silence that would happen if we all actually vanished, but I am dying to see it lol and do sometimes have to wonder if the complaints about the RPC being dead/dying/empty, not in a fandom but overall, are coming from the purity police some of the time. It's quite active over on the Leave Folks Alone Over Fiction side of life :D

#answered #anonymous #policing #dni lists #blocking #rp advice #rp problems

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