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mariyekos · 21 days

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FFVII Rebirth and Gameplay at the Cost of Atmosphere

This is probably going to be part 1 of a series of posts/mini-essays so I'll write more on it later, but while doing one of the Chapter 12 Sidequests in Rebirth, I finally figured out how to phrase one of my biggest issues with this game:

There are several places in Rebirth where they include special gameplay at the cost of good atmosphere. This often, but not always, accompanies either a change or new addition to the plot.

I've put some elaboration on what I mean below. For now, it's only looking at that one sidequest in Chapter 12, though it happens all over the game. But the tl;dr is that sometimes game shoots itself in the foot/misses completely when trying to create a certain atmosphere because it prioritizes a certain type of gameplay that is antithetical to that atmosphere.

The Monsters Aren't Real, and How That Hurts the Atmosphere

The sidequest in question is Lament of the Damned, the sidequest in Shinra Manor where you go with Vincent to explore reports of a crying woman. The thing that got me about this one was the combat trials.

What's in the Game

When you go explore under the manor, both Vincent and Hojo mention deadly combat trials, which is a great setup for some horror and an overall creepy atmosphere. Because wow! If Hojo has no qualms about putting his own experiments to death if they don't prove worthy, that means he's really messed up! (And that Vincent in particular has had an even more disturbing past than we thought). The manor was definitely creepy in the original with all of the monsters roaming the halls and the pop up Ying Yang in particular. There are no more battles in the Shinra Manor (besides Cait Sith's section), so maybe this is their way of making up for that.

Except... in the Remake, the combat trials are just simulations. You don't have to face any real monsters. It's all fake. There are no monsters roaming the halls unchecked anymore, nor are there caged monsters, created for the sole purpose of testing your strength. And this lack of real monsters totally kills the deranged/creepy haunted house atmosphere the original Shinra Manor had.

(Which, to be fair, is already changed by the under-manor laboratory being a huge complex rather than a couple of rooms, which is part of the larger shift in atmosphere done for the entirety of Nibelheim. I won't go into to detail in this post, but while I thought the Cait Sith gameplay segment was actually a lot of fun, I was disappointed by how it killed the vibe too).

Room for Improvement

I personally believe the combat trial aspect would be much creepier and much more effective if you were trapped in a room and real monsters were suddenly let loose on you. Then it would feel like a real fight for your life, and make Vincent's comments about how subjects were disposed of via combat trial all the more impactful. Because simulations can't kill you (or at least, don't seem like they should be able to), so in the simulation verse, there should be no direct consequences to losing. It seems a lot dumber to be killed by a simulation than ripped apart by real monsters. Less scary, though I suppose there's a certain appeal to being killed by the unreal. Still, I don't think they leaned into that hard enough. Maybe they meant to imply that creatures which lost to the simulation would be disposed of either by real monsters or just euthanasia afterwards, but meh. I still think that's less disturbing than throwing test subjects into a room where they either defeat the monsters that have been loosed on them, or die a grisly death. And even if they do somehow die to the simulations, something about it just doesn't hit the same.

Having the monsters only be simulations also loses the disturbing aspect of the basement being inhabited by monsters of Hojo's creation that exist for the sole purpose of testing other experiments of his. Because isn't that messed up? For Hojo to create beings whose sole purpose is to, ideally, be killed by his more successful test subjects? To have to face creatures which may have once been normal animals or innocent civilians who have been twisted to fight but can never be saved, so you must either kill them or die yourself? When the monsters you fight are just simulations, you lose that thought/fear of "oh no, look what he's done to these real living creatures, not only mutating them but sending them to their deaths for his amusement."

When the monsters are fake/just simulations, it means Hojo isn't hurting as many real people, and you don't have to face the disturbing idea of having to put down real beings who probably once had real thoughts and feelings. (Which would've been SO GOOD with the line Vincent has after the combat trials, where he DOES talk about Monsters having feelings. But the monsters you fight aren't real. Not until the very last one. So it doesn't hit the same).

So tl;dr of this section: the fact that the simulations are just that- only simulations, i.e. not real- both reduces the threat level in terms of danger to the character, and eliminates the disturbing realization that Hojo has created creatures who are (if his experiments are successful) are meant to die. Both the atmosphere of the manor and Hojo's character lose out there, imo.

Why the Monsters Aren't Real, or the Gameplay Reason

After beating the combat trials, I came to realize (the likely reason) why they made the combat trials simulations rather than real battles: so they could include combat objectives and so you can take the trials at your own pace (i.e. leave and come back).

Repeating the Trials/Combat Objectives

First, the combat objectives.

There are two types: timers and stagger. If you were fighting against real enemies, having a stagger requirement wouldn't make as much sense, since a real battle should really just be about surviving. Why would you need to stagger them? What would happen if you didn't? Would a monster be more likely to kill you if you didn't stagger it? That's not how it works in gameplay. As for the timer, I could see there still being a timer requirement in the form of these enemies doing some sort of enrage move after a set amount of time, but the stagger one doesn't make as much sense. (For people who don't know what enrage is, it's the idea that an enemy will use an unlivable attack against you. An unavoidable OHKO.)

By making the fights simulations rather than real battles, it then makes sense for Hojo (cough cough the devs) to implement certain specific requirements to progress. It also gives them a better excuse for why you might need to repeat the trials- you didn't meet the combat objectives, so now you have to do it again. Because the trials don't auto-fail if you don't meet the combat objectives, you just don't get to go forward.

But I think it loses sight of the creepy scientist and horror basement thing if what you're fighting isn't real. There is no penalty for not doing the trial "right." If there was an actual enrage at the end of the timer (i.e. if you just straight up lost/died), then that would be terrifying! Because wow, Hojo is willing to kill his subject if they're not fast enough! But no, he just doesn't pass them and has them try again. Which makes him less creepy/insane seeming, because now he's kinder because he's willing to give things a second chance. It's less impactful.

In my opinion, being able to implement combat objectives isn't worth that loss of impact. Because combat objectives don't have to be in this part of the game. Chadley has combat objectives in his simulator. If they want us to do combat simulator stuff, have us do it with Chadley. Don't hurt the atmosphere in the manor to include this dumb requirement, which not only means there's less threat in the form of the monsters not being real, but also kills any sense of urgency because you can repeat the trials as many times as you want, or even come back later if you don't have the time. It's a loss of atmosphere for the sake of gameplay in a bad way. They didn't have to write it like this, but they did. And it happens several times through this game.

Backing Out/Limited Creature Game Logic

Speaking of which...I think it's okay to have the occasional unskippable battle, or occasional battle arena where you have to beat them all to progress/do them all over if you run, but the devs sure don't. If the battles weren't simulations, it would make a lot of sense for them to be one after the other. Battles where you've got to do them all to make it through.

Since they're not real battles and are simulations you have to execute, it makes sense that you can come and go. But I don't think that's the order that concept was conceived in; instead I think the devs went "in order to allow the player to come and go at any time, we should make it so you only have to do the battles one by one, and a simulation would be great for that!" And the game really hand holds you with that. Most of Chadley's simulations have multiple battles in a row where you have to beat them all to proceed, but the ones in this sidequests are all individual battles with individual goals.

Now, I am all for accessibility and quality of life in gaming, and I really like that, for example, you can save basically everywhere now instead of needing a save point. But it's fine to remove a little bit of Quality of Life/Accessibility for a single sidequest where you face a battle gauntlet! I mean, the game already has points where it limits your access to Fast Travel so you have to progress the plot. And like I mentioned before, most of the Chadley battle simulations have multiple rounds too! Why not do that here, where you have to do the battles (at least the 4 simulation ones, I would be fine with stopping before the boss) before moving on? You can save right then and there! You're healed between battles too! It's okay to make things slightly less convenient sometimes for the sake of atmosphere! How cool/exciting would it be if Hojo set 4 rounds of monsters on you in a row, where you had to beat them all or game over? I'd love it. That would raise the stakes. And, it would make for a more unique atmosphere. But this isn't something that seems to be a high priority for Rebirth, which I find unfortunate.

(Sidenote, this happens with both gameplay and visuals. At least in the Cave of the Gi they had runestones instead of Jukeboxes... but they didn't bother to change the Jukebox in Vincent's room for some reason. Or to put it somewhere else if they didn't want to change the model. The jukebox and potion bench are so weird man. They kill the vibe made by the rest of the creepy basement full of coffins and candles. It's supposed to feel old and out of time, but the jukebox and bench ruin it.)

I could also see the argument that the devs made this a simulation rather than a real battle based on the logic that having an infinite number of monsters (for infinite tries to complete the objectives) makes less sense when they're real monsters rather than simulations, but I don't think that matters. This is a video game. There are already infinite monsters in the overworld. There can be infinite monsters here.

Finally, going back to the idea of stagger and time objectives from above...you could technically do those with real enemies too. Have it so Hojo will just send more monsters at you if you fail. Make it real Hojo instead of hologram AI Hojo. Or have the AI be able to detect that the enemies weren't staggered/killed in time! Now that I think about it, there are combat objectives against real enemies in the overworld, so they technically didn't need to make these battles part of a simulation for combat objectives. But I still feel strongly that these battles were made to be simulations instead of real battles for the sake of combat objectives.

Last Thoughts (for now!)

FFVII Rebirth has leaned very strongly into AI, simulation, and advanced technology that had not been conceived/wasn't in the public consciousness when the original was released. At times, the game wants to lean very hard into this new technology at the cost of the atmosphere that made the original so great. It's a different type of horror. A different type of creepy.

Being trapped in a virtual world can be terrifying, but it's a different type of terror to being trapped in the real world. Being killed by simulations sounds disturbing, but it's a different type of disturbing than being killed by real creatures. The writers may have done this because they felt it was an equivalent exchange (hehe), but for me at least, I find what the original did so much more striking.

Full disclaimer, I am not, and have never been, big into sci-fi. Remake and Rebirth lean into high tech sci-fi more than the OG did (which 100% had its own sci-fi aspects! I mean, the villain is an alien for starters, and the evil scientists' actions are central to the plot!), at the cost of some of the more down-to earth horror/other aspects of the original. I find this disappointing. It's a different choice that is sometimes really cool (ex. with so much technology it becomes much more obvious that Shinra has constant global surveillance, which is very distopian), but sometimes worse (ex. President Shinra only being a hologram rather than the real guy in Reactor No. 5 makes him seem a lot less cocky since he doesn't show up in person).

I think Shinra Manor as a whole has absolutely lost the atmosphere that made me love it so much in the original. It went from a grimy mansion to a sterile lab. Both are good settings for horror, but they just don't hit the same. This sidequest suffered from wanting to be part of that sterile high tech lab, instead of the low-tech horror of the original where people/Hojo seem(ed) to be playing god in much more material ways. Which is...a different point better left for another essay.

We'll see if I ever get to writing it, lol. For now I uh. Haven't actually finished the game. I have 91 hours and am only about an hour slash two sidequests into Chapter 12, but I haven't had much free time to continue. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to push through some more!

#i have a 27 thousand word document with my live/real time thoughts on rebirth #only going up to the very beginning of chapter 12. and it doesn't even include my full essay on my dissatisfaction with corel prison #ffvii #ffvii rebirth #final fantasy vii rebirth #ff7 rebirth #ffvii rebirth spoilers #rebirth spoilers #i don't want to spoil other slow people.#anyway i do want to say that overall i have enjoyed rebirth a lot! but i've also been absolutely baffled by some choices #kalm was great. gongaga was fascinating. corel prison sucked while cosmo canyon and nibelheim were questionable #the sidequests have been majority really good too #costa del sol and junon were fantastic too. though lower junon was so-so #who knows if i'll ever get all my thoughts out because yeah. i have a 27k word long document. that is SO many essays worth of material man #erurandomness #eruwrites #erubabbles

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