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#wow i went so off topic remember when this was about typos?
ilikebirdsouo · 2 years
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I KEEP ON SEEING TYPOS IN THE TAGS OF MY POSTS THIS IS PAIN-
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taelme · 4 years
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genre: college!au, college frat boy!Johnny  (fluff, mild angst if you squint) 
pairing/s: Johnny / Reader , Lucas and the some of the 127 kids make appearances 
word count: 12k+ (wow this was a ride) 
tw: not much just mild language, mentions of smoking and they drink in this... also nothing SUPER scandy but they make out in this so yes
a/n: gif isn't mine!! also low-key inspired by that vid of 127 playing beer pong in America....  read this on ao3
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"Life doesn't wait for you to enjoy yourself, Y/N....you know?"
You rolled your eyes, a huff of laughter escaping your lips as you looked up from your work to raise an eyebrow at the boy beside you, his puffy brown hair falling over his eyes as he bobbed his head to the imaginary music playing in his head.
"Are you high?" you dropped your voice to a whisper, pulling your earbud from your ear and looking at him curiously.
Scoffing at you, his eyebrows furrowed, as if he suddenly wasn't sure himself, "I don't...actually know....but don't be like that," he set his pen down, looking at you with a serious, wide-eyed expression. "As I was saying, why don't you give him a chance? What's so bad about it?"
You knew what Lucas was talking about, glancing at your very conversation topic that was currently seated a few tables away from you at the self-study tables in your school’s library, gaze intent on his laptop as he scribbled furiously on his notepad. Dragging your gaze away, you looked back down at the post-it glaring at you from its position on a hot cup of coffee sitting on your desk- supposedly from him, reading:
‘meet me before you leave?
-Johnny-’
You frowned after reading it for the umpteenth time, not knowing what he would want you to meet him for, a sick feeling in your stomach refusing to let you study in peace until you knew just what it was, and Lucas, of course.
"What do you mean, ‘give him a chance’?" You shot back at Lucas in a harsh whisper, your leg bouncing anxiously as you thought about the possibility of you and Johnny Seo together.
It wasn't as if you didn't know who he was. He was in your literature lecture, though he barely showed up. You only knew he was there because every time he was, he'd always find a seat behind you. Not to mention the way he would lean forward, so his lips were just barely next to your ear and you could smell his expensive perfume, just so he could ask to borrow a highlighter; his voice so enchanting you couldn't forget it even if you wanted to.
Lucas shrugged, "I mean, maybe he wants to ask you out, I mean...why else would he go through the trouble of buying you a coffee and shit if he didn't?"
You narrowed your eyes at him, "I don't think that's how it works, Lucas,” you told him, “plus, you know, you're not exactly doing a very good job in convincing me that Johnny, who we've known for like... ever but has never expressed any interest in anything other than in what stationery I’d brought to class, is actually into me."
Lucas clucked his tongue at you in annoyance, "you know, you don't always have to be so iffy about everyone that expresses interest in you," he gave you a pointed look, making you shake your head.
"I don't do it without reason," you murmured, twirling your pen between your fingers absently.
"You're making me want to day drink," Lucas huffed, "I'm leaving. Can you make sure you meet him so I can rejoice in how I’m right when he ends up asking you out."
Lucas stood up, the chair screeching against the hardwood floor loudly, slinging his bag over his shoulder before shooting you a smile, almost sending you face-planting into the table when he'd given you a firm pat on your shoulder.
"All the best," he held his fist up in a gesture to cheer you on, leaving promptly after to fulfil his promise of daydrinking, you assumed.
As the clock ticked by, every time you brought your hot cup of drink to your lips (as much as you didn't want to take it from him, you couldn't help it, the drink smelled too good to resist), you were reminded of the impending meeting you were going to have with Johnny, subtly glancing at his table every now and then, not knowing what gave you the courage to stand, beginning to walk over to him.
You clenched the strap of your bag tighter in your hands as you neared his table, being able to hear the muffled pumping bass of his music through his headphones. Holding the cup with the post-it in your hand, you took in a deep breath before holding it in front of his face.
Johnny didn’t seem startled, which intimidated you even more, simply setting his pen down and turning around in his chair to face you, giving you a small smile.
Johnny opened his mouth to speak, but you'd cut in quickly.
"What do you want?" you blurted, realizing you'd sounded a bit rude, but not moving to correct yourself in case it'd make your strong, totally unintimidated facade crumble.
Johnny removed his headphones, knocking the hood of his jacket off his head, revealing his dark blue cap, which he'd fidgeted with as he looked at his scribbles on his notepad.
"Did you like it?" he asked you, taking the cup from your hands, eyebrows raising at the lightness of the cup, since you'd finished the coffee.
“How’d you know my coffee order?” you murmured.
Johnny’s lips parted, giving you an unabashed smile, "Well, that’s for me to know and you to… ignore, but I’m glad you liked it.”
Placing the cup onto his table, Johnny looked back at you with an almost-analytical gaze, the intent in his eyes almost successfully making you avert yours.
"Anyway, what I wanted to talk to you about was,” there was a hint of anticipation behind his smile, “d'you mind doing me a favour?" he continued.
"... what kind of favour?" you asked, your head spinning as your imagination ran wild with all the possible things he could have asked you. It wasn’t as if he was gonna ask for you to go on a date with him as a favour like a cliché teenage rom-com, was he?
Johnny pointed at his notebook with his scribbles on it, giving you a sheepish smile, "I kind of need the notes for the week before last's lecture."
You thought back, frowning in confusion when you'd recalled that Johnny had been sitting behind you that week, remembering the disappearance of your blue ballpoint pen taking place that lesson.
"Weren't you there?"
"Yeah, I was. But... uh,” Johnny gave you a sheepish smile, his hand coming up to scratch at the back of his neck, “may have had a really bad hangover that morning...and I did remember taking notes,” he said pointedly, “but uh... I don't know if you can, but I definitely can't make out what this means.”
Johnny turned, picking up a sheet of paper that was tucked in between his book to show you, illegible scribbles scattered around over the lines, the words trailing off into lines at the end of almost every sentence.
You pressed your lips together to suppress your urge to smile, scrunching your nose up in amusement.
"Sure," you eventually sighed, a small part of you thankful that he didn't ask you what Lucas thought he was going to ask you.
"Nice, thank you so much, you're a lifesaver," he thanked as you were busy fishing in your bag for the notes you'd consolidated just prior to meeting him.
You'd rather not give him the soft copy, seeing as there were way too many typos and distracted musings in there, (which may or may not have been about him as well).
"When do you need it back by?" he asked, earning a shrug from you.
Johnny huffed, seemingly amused by your demeanour.
"Okay, it's fine. I'll return them to you as soon as I’m done with them," he told you, startling you when he'd reached out a hand to touch your forearm gently before you could turn to leave, "see you around," he murmured.
You nodded quickly, walking away before you could embarrass yourself, Johnny not being able to help the smile from his face at your flustered state.
===
The next time you'd seen Lucas was when he'd arrived unannounced at the door of your apartment, a luxury you very much cherished thanks to your parents, who would much rather you not live in a dorm after hearing stories about peer influences in college life.
"So, are you married to Johnny yet?" he'd asked upon seeing you open the door for him, making you roll your eyes.
“Hello to you too, Lucas.”
"Hello,” he giggled, “also, go get dressed.”
At the look of confusion you’d given him, glancing down at your loungewear, Lucas had given you an expectant look, his eyebrows raised.
“You're coming with me to the mixer, remember?" Lucas continued. Oh, that.
"Right,” you let out a small sigh, “are you sure it's mandatory for us to go? And he didn't ask me out, by the way," you were hesitant about the mixer, having heard your fair share of rumours about the group of guys that were holding the party.
Entering your bedroom, you heard Lucas follow you into your room while you decided on what to wear.
"He didn't? Weird," Lucas frowned, flopping onto your bed with a thud and leaning against the headboard, crossing one of his stretched-out legs over the other.
"Don't wear that. You always wear that," Lucas snapped when you'd reached for your trusty outfit combination, making you put it back with a frown, skimming through your clothes before settling on something a little more ‘presentable’ according to him.
"Stop looking so nervous, you'll have fun! The guys are all really fun once you get to know them. Trust me!" you frowned at Lucas.
He'd been to many of these 'mixers', while you'd taken the liberty of forgoing the first three that had been held ever since you enrolled, but all Lucas had told you was that in going, you'd be promised to booze, music, and fun.
And considering your lack of entertainment these days, you figured it wouldn't be so bad if you just went for one.
Only when you'd reached did you realize that you were somewhere definitely not up your alley.
It looked like a house from the outside, (you obviously hadn't explored your campus enough to have stumbled upon the frats and sororities), but you were already growing increasingly excited (or nervous, you couldn't tell. Both made you feel like puking, frankly) from the tension of the music and the crowds of people.
You noticed Lucas was pretty popular among the people here, especially the guys, and you and Lucas had been led by one of them to the kitchen, the boy- who had striking features and a kind smile, handing the both of you drinks.
"Thanks, Yuta, where's the rest of the guys?" you heard Lucas ask him, and you'd frowned when he turned to you, asking you to stay there while he went God knows where with Yuta.
You downed your drink quicker than you'd expected, taking the liberty to grab a beer before you'd seen a group of girls walk into the kitchen, relieved sighs escaping their lips.
"Thank God we got out of there," you heard one of them say, your head tilting at them in confusion.
You must've looked a little too sober to have fit in, the soda in your cup and the lack of perspiration on you. But you didn’t think much of it, your attention captured when you heard one of them start to sigh, shrugging off their jacket.
"Those boys scare the shit out of me... remind me never to think I have a chance with Jaehyun again," she sighed.
Her friend had simply agreed, but not without letting out a tired sigh as well, "it’s not like he didn’t tell you beforehand that he wasn’t looking for anything serious... you can't come here thinking you can land a nice one, the nicest you're gonna find here is like... Johnny Seo, and he's not even interested!" you tilted your head at them, blurting out before you could stop yourself.
"You guys know Johnny too?" you blurted, seeing them look at you curiously, narrowing their eyes at you as if you were some sort of jungle predator.
"Do you?" one of them had asked, and you didn’t miss the way she’d scanned your attire, almost making you squirm uncomfortably.
You nodded slowly, not sure why they had looked at you in such shock.
"I guess? He's in my lit class," you shrugged, taking another sip of your beer.
"What about him?" you continued, curiosity getting the better of you, but you were annoyed to say the least when Lucas had chosen that time to return to the kitchen, smiling and nodding at the girls in greeting (they seemed to recognize him, straightening up and adjusting their clothes immediately).
"Come on, let's play some games!" he said, not giving you a chance to respond before he'd dragged you further into the house, where you saw what looked like a lounge area, ping pong table set up for beer pong.
Looking around the room, you felt like you were seeing something completely new yet utterly cliché to you, how the music here was different in the sense that it wasn't any of that electronic music they were playing outside, the trap and rap catching your attention.
"I brought a guest!" Lucas announced upon entering the room, and your heart had almost stopped at the sight of Johnny, who was seated at the sofa with a drink in hand, looking up from his phone when he'd heard Lucas say your name.
His eyebrows raised in surprise, not expecting to see you here, making you take a bigger sip of your drink (which had been replaced by Lucas’ beer), glancing around the room and waving at the guys who greeted you with smiles and nods.
"First time at a mixer?" a boy that Lucas had told you was named ‘Ten’ had asked you, earning a nod from you.
“Uh-huh,” you smiled, though it seemed Ten could sense your tension.
"How are you finding it?" he'd asked as the boys had started playing games to decide how to split the teams.
"I pick Y/N to be on my team!" Johnny had shouted over the noise just as you'd turned to Ten, who chose to sit out of the game, to reply, "Loud."
Ten had glanced at the players you and Johnny would be against, shrugging, "You're in safe hands," he told you, shooting you a knowing smile before leaving to sit with Lucas who was seated next to a boy named Baekhyun.
You'd moved to do the same but were stopped in your tracks when Johnny had approached you.
"Hey. Didn't expect to see you here," he told you, leading you to an empty space on one of the sofas and pulling you to sit down next to him, squeezing you between him and the side of the armrest with the sheer amount of people trying to fit onto the sofa.
"Why so?" you asked, observing the first two teams that had gone up to play, finally putting a face to the name you'd heard in the kitchen down there. Jaehyun, he seemed nice, cute....but too competitive, you dismissed the thought quickly.
"Didn't see you at the last few mixers," Johnny explained, making you scoff.
"Didn't expect you to notice," you shrugged with a laugh.
Johnny didn't seem to find the joke as funny as you did, simply tilting his head at you.
"How could I not?" he murmured, dropping the topic quickly as the game had started, the guys around you cheering noisily as a lean boy named Doyoung landed his first shot.
"I think Jaehyun's team's gonna win," he leaned over and told you, keeping his gaze fixed on the teams, a calm yet focused expression on his face (while a part of you wondered how he was taking this game so seriously).
Johnny leaned back in his seat comfortably, his hands in his lap, leaning over you to place his drink on the small table beside the sofa.
You, on the other hand, were busy trying to communicate telepathically with Lucas.
He was frantically gesturing saying you should be flirting with Johnny but you glared at him, shaking your head furiously, catching Johnny's attention from your sudden movement.
“Hmm?” he turned to you, eyebrows raised in a silent question.
You shook your head, trying to think of an excuse, “Oh, nothing, I was just trying to figure out why that guy next to Ten was so familiar.”
Johnny laughed, scrunching his nose, “That’s Taeyong. Wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve heard of him… he’s got… quite the rep.”
Laughing (even though you had no idea what rep Johnny was referring to), you let out a small sigh, glad to have successfully diverted Johnny’s attention.
The game progressed quickly, Johnny’s prediction being right about Jaehyun's team having the upper-hand, and they'd won in no time.
Gulping down on the bare droplets left in your cup for good measure as you watched Johnny step up to the table, waving you over, you set your cup down and made your way over quickly.
You were nervous to say the least, not trusting your sense of aim, especially with how Johnny was towering next to you, his presence adding to your nervousness.
"Any words for the other team before you begin?" Baekhyun had provoked, urging their competitive spirits to awaken, as Johnny had leaned forward.
"Good luck," he shrugged casually, and usually you would've been put off by this kind of cocky behaviour, figuring the only reason why you thought it was okay now was because it was coming from none other than Johnny Seo.
"Johnny," you whispered while the guys on the other team, Jungwoo and Taeyong, had been busy throwing challenges and trying to hype their audience up.
Johnny leant over, bending down so he could hear you better.
"Yeah?" He shrugged off his dark coloured flannel, leaving him in his plain black shirt and ripped blue jeans. You’d felt as though you were having déjà vu, the many times he’d leant over to you during lectures making your face warm at his proximity.
You cupped your hands around your mouth like how you would if you were telling a secret.
"I'm not very good at this game," you murmured.
Johnny giggled, shaking his head at you in dismissal.
"It's fine, just have fun, it's just a game after all," he told you reassuringly, but once it started, it was like you were seeing a different side of Johnny (and suddenly it didn’t seem like ‘just a game’).
He aimed confidently, one hand shoved into his pocket so he wouldn't fidget around (or just to look cool, as Ten had pointed out), and had landed two shots smoothly at the start.
It was going to be your turn when Jungwoo had landed the ping pong ball in one of your cups. You scrunched your nose up, nervous for some reason about your next shot as you picked the cup up and downed it in one go, making Johnny raise an eyebrow at you in amusement.
Hoping your aim was steady enough, you held your hand up, ready to throw when Johnny had leant down next to you, softly instructing you on where he thought you'd be able to get a clear shot.
In your flustered state, you'd missed, and if Johnny was disappointed, he didn't show it.
Johnny had offered to drink the drinks on behalf of you whenever your team lost, which, of course, flattered you but also disappointed you because you were hoping to get to drink a little. Though you couldn't say you weren't impressed by how he was handling his drinks.
You weren't aware that your sulky demeanour was showing on your face as you saw the ball land in your side's cup again, already anticipating Johnny's hand swooping in to help you drink the beer.
"Why d'you look so sad, babe?" Yuta laughed, making you shake your head dismissively, before Lucas had outed you quicker than you could blink.
"Y/N hasn't had a drink the whole game!" he laughed loudly, knowing you had come here with plans to indulge before you went back to studying.
Johnny held the cup in his hands, looking slightly buzzed already, an intrigued smile on his face.
"You want this?" he asked, holding the cup up and you clenched the ping pong ball in your hands, nodding.
Throwing it quickly, you heard cheers erupt as it landed in your opponent's cup.
Johnny in his excitement, turned to you with the cup still in his hands. You’d raised your hands slightly in a move to grab the cup, though your actions went unnoticed by Johnny.
"Open up," he sing-songed, using one hand to tilt your chin up, bringing the cup to your lips and letting you down its contents.
Gulping the liquid down with a wince, you saw his expression change, his parted lips of concentration curving to form a slight smile.
"Happy?" he'd asked, eyebrows raising, making you nod quickly, directing your attention back to the game quickly.
You were excited when you saw that Taeyong's ball had missed, leaving one last cup on their side that you had to get rid of before you would win.
"Go ahead," you prompted Johnny, seeing him get into his position calmly, throwing the ball and shrugging nonchalantly when he'd seen it go in, the rest of the guys erupting in shouts.
You were amused that he'd reacted in such a way, walking over to the table of drinks and pouring something stronger for himself.
"Want some?" he'd asked before shaking his head, "Actually, no, I think you shouldn't," he laughed, making you raise an eyebrow at him, wondering why it seemed as though he knew your alcohol tolerance too.
You realized you had to play a final round against Jaehyun and Yuta, and this time you were a little more thankful for the fact that Johnny would drink on behalf of you, considering your tolerance wasn't the best and you were already starting to feel a little buzzed, smiling more than you were used to.
You could tell he was a little more relaxed too, even though the game was getting intense, even going to the extent of patting your head proudly when you landed a shot, resting a hand on your shoulder whenever it wasn't your turn (and sometimes even during your turn)
And after the previous game, you were even more determined not to have a repeat of the whole 'open up' situation, simply letting Johnny drink on behalf of you. Though your team eventually lost (Lucas would scold you later on saying it was totally your fault), the guys had moved on to a different game pretty quickly, deciding on a game of ‘never have I ever’.
You would've considered yourself to be a player with an advantage, seeing as you were pretty sure they were starting strong and you supposed you hadn't done a lot of questionable things in your life.
The guys had already lost two fingers by the first two players, who'd asked pretty mild questions related to drinking and skipping class, "Jungwoo, your turn."
The boy pursed his lips, before a mischievous grin appeared on his face, "I've got one. Never have I ever woken up next to someone I don't know."
You stayed the same, laughing at the way Taeyong had nonchalantly put a finger down, jumping with a start when you'd heard shouts erupt and many fingers start pointing at Johnny.
"Don’t lie! You have to put one down!"
Johnny raised his hands in defence, eyes widening, "Why should I?" He scoffed.
"You can't say you've never fucked someone when you were less than sober before," Jaehyun drawled, a hint of sulkiness in his tone, the now rosy-cheeked boy upset that he was left with only two fingers and silently hoping that he could drag someone else down with him.
Johnny shook his head, smiling smugly, "I, for one, happen to make sure I know the people I...have relations with, as a matter of fact," your eyes widened at his forwardness, looking down at your four extended fingers, hoping your shyness wasn't obvious.
"Jae, you're up," Johnny pat the boy on the shoulder, seeing him purse his lips.
Johnny tried not to glance at you, a part of him enjoying the breath of fresh air that you were still doing pretty well in the game, not seeing you pick up your cup more than once during the game so far.
Taeyong had snickered, leaning over to murmur something in Jaehyun’s ear.
Jaehyun smirked, directing his gaze at Johnny intentionally, "Never have I ever… made out with someone more than 8 years older than me."
Johnny refrained from standing up.
"Fuck you, Taeyong," lowering his finger before he picked up his cup, drinking it all the while with narrowed eyes directed towards Taeyong, making you laugh along with the rest at him.
"Wow, Y/N's doing pretty well," Jaehyun pointed out, "too bad we don't know enough about you," he said, heavy implications behind his words, earning a glare from Johnny.
"And you won't," Johnny butt in quickly.
Yuta spoke up, "alright, my turn. Never have I ever smoked."
The boys were confident initially, until Lucas had spoken up, his eyebrows furrowed as he pouted.
"Do e-ciggs count?"
Johnny nodded, knowing smile on his face, not seeming to mind that he had to put down a finger as well. You tried to hide your surprise when you saw how many of them had only picked up their cups after that, having lost the game already after running out of fingers.
A few of them had gotten up and searched for other things to play, Johnny leaning back in his seat, resting his weight on his hands as he looked at you.
"Did you have fun?" he gave you a soft smile, making you shrug, forcing your gaze from your fingers to look at him, momentarily distracted by how brown his eyes looked in this lighting, not to mention the hazy look in his eyes.
"Were the uh...notes, useful?" you asked in your lack of a better response.
Johnny furrowed his eyebrows, lips parting in thought before he nodded.
"Oh, right, I was gonna return them to you the next time we had class but I can actually give them to you now, if you want."
You hesitated before nodding, figuring you'd might as well since he had them now, your mind not registering the fact that this meant Johnny lived here and that getting them now meant getting them from his room, your alcohol-induced state thinking all the while that he just had them in his backpack somewhere here.
You were too focused on following Johnny to realize that the other guys were giving each other looks, assuming Johnny had brought you upstairs for other reasons, already passing the point in the house that guests were allowed in.
Though you had to admit you were a little thankful for that because you were starting to feel the drinks you'd consumed start to hit you, feeling your head get a lot heavier than it was just moments ago.
Johnny shoved the door open, revealing rather welcoming warm tones in the decoration, down to the different pictures he'd pasted around the room, varying from scenery to pictures of the other guys you'd seen downstairs.
"Is this your room?" you asked, hearing him grunt in affirmation, walking over to his desk and fishing out your notes from under the stack of papers.
He waved them at you and you'd accepted them gratefully, still standing around awkwardly next to his bed as he'd taken a seat on his bed, looking at you expectantly.
Too tired to form words, you watched curiously as he'd extended his arm, reaching over to tug on the hem of your shirt, urging you to sit down, his head pounding as well.
"Were they useful?" you asked, letting yourself sit on his bed with a light thud, the both of your minds too hazy to realize you'd asked him this already when you were downstairs.
Johnny nodded, his eyebrows raising as if he'd remembered something, leaning over your shoulder to flip the pages of your notes, pointing at something you'd written.
"There was… I don't really get this part, though," he murmured.
You tried explaining to him, only realizing how much the both of you were yawning when you were halfway through explaining, thinking that maybe this wasn't such a good time for you to be explaining literary concepts to him.
You laughed, shaking your head when you realized you'd been repeating yourself the past three sentences and Johnny hadn't even noticed, too busy staring at your lips as you spoke and trying to remind himself that whatever he had in mind probably wasn't what you had in mind.
"Honestly, I think I should explain this another time, I’m honestly really tired," you yawned, seeing him give you a tired smile, nodding.
"Who's your ride home?" he asked.
"Lucas," you yawned.
Johnny stood up, albeit reluctantly, and led you downstairs so you could go find Lucas, your heart sinking when you saw him passed out on the sofa in the guys' lounge room.
Hearing Johnny huff next to you, you sighed deeply.
"Well, there goes my ride," you frowned, attempting to shake him awake but to no avail.
Johnny cast an amused look at Lucas' sleeping figure, "I can uh...let you crash for the night? pretty sure the rest of us are too drunk to drive you back anyway," Johnny told you, making you shoot him a hesitant look.
"Are you sure? I can just like walk home myself or something—"
Johnny shot you a look, shaking his head as he was already leading you back up to his room.
You were surprised, again, at how the noise from the party was so muffled from Johnny's room.
"It's really late now, that'd be stupid and dangerous," he brought you back into his room.
Well, then.
"You wanna wash up first?" he yawned, and you realized he really wasn't kidding about this. "I've some clothes you can change into.”
Your eyes widened, before wincing at the throbbing ache in your head, the urge to just curl up in comfortable sheets and go to sleep stronger than ever.
“There’s a spare toothbrush and stuff in the cupboard behind the mirror, you can like... just go ahead and use that," he told you, and you'd stepped into the bathroom, shutting the door behind you.
If someone had asked you yesterday what you were planning on doing over the weekend, you definitely would not have expected yourself to be sleeping in Johnny Seo’s room for the night, much less after finding out all that you found out about him from the games you played prior to this.
Staring in the mirror in your tired daze after washing your face, you'd reached for the toothpaste, starting to brush your teeth slowly, flinching slightly when you heard a sharp knock on the door.
"Is it safe?" you heard him ask, huffing in amusement at the innocent nature of the question.
"Uh-huh, very," you murmured over the toothbrush, seeing the door open and he handed you a bunched up t-shirt and a pair of basketball shorts.
"Thanks," you said, spitting out the toothpaste and rinsing your mouth, closing the door behind you and proceeding to change into the clothes he'd given you, only there was a slight problem, the pants were much too big, sliding down your hips.
You'd tried to search if there was a string you could use to tighten the waistline of the pants, frowning when you saw none.
Peeking your head out of the bathroom, you spotted Johnny sitting at the edge of his bed, hands shoved into his pockets as he stared at nothing in particular.
"Johnny?" you called timidly, seeing his gaze lock with yours, tilting his head.
"Yeah?" he hummed.
"Slight problem, the pants are too big," you frowned, watching him raise his eyebrows, frowning, never having run into this problem before because he didn't usually give girls his clothes to wear.
"Oh, shit. Alright, wait hold on, I'll go see if I can get a smaller pair," he got up, walking out and going over to Ten's room, just as the said boy was trying to drag a very passed out Lucas into the room.
"Hey, glad I caught you here, do you happen to have a spare pair of pants I could borrow?" Ten practically dropped Lucas once they were past the door, panting with a pained look on his face.
"Pants, for what?"
"For Y/N," Johnny said, already having anticipated the smirk Ten gave him.
"Just let her go without them, no one else will see," Ten shrugged, as if just having solved Johnny's problem with his Ten-logic.
Johnny shot him a look.
"I'm not doing that," he said firmly.
"Why? Is this the period where you get to know someone before you....what did you say just now? 'have relations' with them?"
Johnny rolled his eyes, "Yes and no. Look, enough questions. Would you just give me the pants?"
Ten scrunched his nose in amusement, walking over to his cupboard and rummaging around before pulling out a pair of shorts, tossing them over to Johnny.
"Have fun. Oh, and sweet dreams… if you even get any sleep tonight." Ten waggled his eyebrows at Johnny, which Johnny had promptly ignored. Walking back into his room and seeing you leaning against the doorframe of the bathroom with a tired look on your face, he held the pants up with one hand.
Johnny couldn't help but laugh at how tired you looked as he handed you the shorts, "here, hope these fit better."
You accepted them gratefully, eventually coming out of the bathroom with your clothes and Johnny's too-big shorts in hand.
Johnny had told you to just set them aside as he'd gone into the bathroom to wash up, coming out and walking over to his cupboard, almost forgetting you were there as he removed his shirt, his back facing you.
Your eyes widened, turning away quickly so you wouldn't start staring.
After you heard the door to the cupboard shut, you asked, "Are you done?"
Hearing his laugh in response, followed by a "yes", you turned around, seeing him turn his lights off to the room, though you could still see.
"Hope you don't mind that we're sharing a bed, by the way. I can go sleep in Taeyong's room, if you're not okay with it."
Stunned, you watched him slip into the bed, leaving a space for you.
"Oh, no it's fine, I mean, do you mind? I don't wanna impose or anything," you murmured, resting a knee on the side of his bed tentatively, seeing him shake his head.
You were used to sharing a bed with Lucas whenever he stayed over, but this was way different. Because this was Johnny, and not Lucas who you’d seen practically all sides of already.
"I don't mind at all," he assured you, and you'd taken that as your queue to slip into bed as well, stressed about which way to face, eventually deciding on lying with your back to the bed.
"Thanks again... for letting me crash, and stuff," you murmured, hearing him hum.
"You were really cool playing beer pong just now," you blurted, starting to ramble in your fatigue.
You heard him let out a small huff, already being able to picture the tired smile on his face.
"I had fun, since you were on my team," he murmured, and if you thought his voice when asking to borrow your highlighters or pens in class had an effect on you, the way he spoke to you now was much much worse.
"Hope Lucas doesn't mind the fact that you're sleeping here," he yawned.
You frowned.
"Lucas? why would he mind? He's been be—" you stopped yourself, realizing you couldn't just tell Johnny that Lucas had been nagging at you to try your luck with him.
"Huh? You guys aren't like… seeing each other?" he asked, and you shook your head.
Johnny didn’t know why he bothered asking. He already knew you and Lucas were just friends, he figured he’d simply wanted to hear it from you, just in case.
"Nope, far from that," you told him.
A silence had fallen between the both of you after that, and you'd turned your head to face Johnny, whose eyes were closed.
"Go to sleep, Y/N.”
You weren't sure why, but you felt like a child being put to bed by their parents when they weren't ready for bed yet, not being able to help the "why," of protest you'd mumbled.
"Because I'm really tipsy and you're making it really hard for me not to kiss you," he murmured, turning around to face the opposite direction, leaving you shutting your eyes immediately, warmth spreading to your cheeks quickly.
===
You frowned when you'd woken up to a weight on your stomach, groggily wanting to turn but confused at the sight of Johnny's pillow being empty.
Rubbing your eyes again, you'd glanced at your stomach, realizing that Johnny's hand was draped over your stomach, his palm tucked in under you like he was hugging a bolster, and his face snuggled up next to your waist.
Your eyes widened, texting Lucas and asking where he was, seeing that he’d given you a missed call.
10:21pm -don’t call me lucas i swear to god just text me- lucas 10:21pm -WHY what happened??? why can’t i call u???-
You saw that he was already calling you, not listening to you, and because your phone decided it would be good not to give you the option to decline his call, you picked up in your panic to get your phone to stop ringing.
“Lucas,” you whispered harshly, “I told you not to call me!” your movements had caused Johnny to stir awake, wondering what you were so tense about.
“Why can’t I call you? and why are you whispering!”
“Where are you?” you asked, hoping he hadn’t left the house without you.
“I’m in Ten’s room, where are you?”
“I’m in Johnny’s ro—” you felt Johnny shift, moving his hand to rest on your stomach, resting his chin on top of his hand as he looked up at you with tired eyes, his shoulder practically holding you down with his weight, making you stop talking to Lucas halfway in your distracted state, only snapping out of it when you heard a knock at the door.
“Come in,” Johnny murmured tiredly, and you brought your hands up to cover your face when you saw Lucas barge into the room, looking between you and Johnny before pressing his lips together, struggling to contain his smile.
“Uh...Y/N, I’ll just... wait for you downstairs,” he murmured, a slight giggle escaping his lips as Johnny waved at him with a smile, watching as Lucas closed the door behind him after walking back out.
“Good morning,” Johnny murmured, pushing himself off of you, getting up from his bed groggily as he fished for a bag from underneath his table, placing your clothes inside neatly along with your notes.
“Go on, poor Lucas is waiting for you downstairs,” he fiddled with his earring, holding the bag out for you.
You accepted the bag, getting up and smoothing down your shirt where it had bunched up while you were asleep.
“I’ll uh...return this to you after I wash it,” you said, and he was nodding patronizingly, hands on your shoulders as he guided you downstairs, seeing Lucas waiting in the kitchen, talking to Doyoung.
“Morning,” Johnny greeted Doyoung in the kitchen, seeing Lucas stand up and cover his mouth (though it was obvious he was grinning), nodding goodbye at Doyoung as you were practically pushed out of the door, Johnny smiling and waving you goodbye as he leant against the doorframe.
Once you were closer to his car, Lucas nudged you harshly, almost sending you stumbling onto the lawn.
“What the hell was that?” Lucas asked you in hushed whispers (or as hushed as he could bring his voice down), making you wince, letting out a groan.
“You’re asking me? I wasn’t necessarily prepared for you to pass out on me,” you glared at him, getting into the passenger seat of his car.
He sighed, thankful to be able to talk normally now.
“Yeah, well...” he trailed off, not being able to find an excuse for you. “But the way you two looked so cozy just now!” he diverted the topic, making your eyes widen defensively.
“That was all him, okay?”
“You see? I told you he was interested in you!” Lucas started the engine, beginning to drive slowly, making his tone more serious.
“But you guys didn’t…” he let out a grunt, “did you?”
You almost screamed, shaking your head vigorously, “Oh my god no, we didn’t.”
Lucas glanced at you pensively before looking back at the road, “That’s weird. You guys didn’t even make out or anything?”
“Lucas!” You scolded
“What? I’m asking important questions!”
You huffed in disbelief, shaking your head eventually, “No, we didn’t.”
Lucas hummed again, as if he was surprised, “… weird.”
“Why do you keep saying it’s weird?” you frowned, seeing him shake his head.
Lucas brought a hand away from the wheel to run through his hair, smoothing down the mess. “I don’t know, just...unexpected I guess. Johnny’s not usually so nice…”
“Take this for example,” Lucas gestured to the clothes you were wearing, “never in my duration of being here have I ever seen Johnny lend his clothes to anyone other than the other guys… and that’s saying a lot too because you guys didn’t even do anything last night.”
You contemplated on telling Lucas what Johnny had said before you slept, afraid that if you told him now he’d throw a fit and swerve the car, so you decided to wait until you’d reached your house, getting out of the car and grasping the handle of the bag tightly.
“I mean....okay he did say something,”
Lucas snapped his head around to face you, a questioning look on his face, eyebrows furrowing and lips parting as a hint of a smile played at his lips.
“We were like already going to sleep and all and we talked a little and then he suddenly told me to go to sleep and I was kind of sad because I felt like he was just trying to get me to shut up,” Lucas snickered at that, “but then I asked him why and then he said... it was because he was like really tipsy and I was making it hard for him not to kiss me.”
You scrunched your eyes shut, hoping the lift would reach your floor quicker.
“He said that?!” Lucas gasped, making you nod, gauging his face for a reaction, seeing him let out a loud strangled sound of excitement.
“Okay, well clearly that clarifies the question of whether he’s attracted to you,” he told you, making you frown, walking out of the elevator and unlocking the door of your apartment quickly, Lucas shutting the door behind him.
“Why do you look so hesitant? Isn’t this a good thing?” Lucas asked, seeing you shrug at him.
You sighed, feeling your headache worsen.
“Think about it, Lucas. I don’t know whether he’s actually interested and what he... intends to get out of it, you know? I heard some girls talking about the guys in the kitchen yesterday, and they weren’t speaking very highly of Johnny and his friends…”
Lucas dismissed your worries quickly, “that depends on how Johnny treats you, and of course, whether you’re willing to take the risk.”
“You said it yourself, it’s a risk,” you told him pointedly.
Lucas shook his head insistently, “Look, Johnny’s really nice, and if anything, whatever he’s been doing lately is just his way of trying to get to know you more.”
Lucas shrugged, walking over to your cupboard and getting out the spare set of clothes he kept here for days where he would stay over.
Taking in a deep breath, you let it out with a sigh, shaking your head.
“Okay, fine. I’ll just see what he does from here.”
Lucas smiled triumphantly, “That’s right. Now, I’m gonna take a shower and give you some time to think about him.”
===
“Hey,” you’d seen Johnny in the library when you were doing work in the spare time before your literature lecture, thankful that you’d brought the bag of Johnny’s clothes to return him. His hair was hidden again by his cap, turned backwards so it wasn’t covering his face, doing wonders in making him look like a typical boy (except typical boys didn’t look as good as he did)
“Hi,” you greeted, seeing him gesture to the table, “is there anyone sitting here?”
He gave you a small smile, adjusting his grip on his cup of coffee.
Shaking your head, you urged him to sit down, “Nope, go ahead.”
He gave you a smile in thanks, sitting down and laying out his things.
“Actually, since we weren’t very successful the other night,” he let out a huff of laughter, “I was wondering if you’d mind explaining to me that part in your notes again?”
Your eyebrows raised in surprise, nodding as you saw him push his notes towards you on the table, leaning forward to rest his weight on his elbows as you pointed with your pencil to explain to him the links between the different aspects of the story and how they related to that part he didn’t understand.
As you did so, you tried not to let yourself get distracted by the way he would take his lower lip between his lips in concentration, or the way he would bring the cup of coffee to his lips and nod at you as you spoke, stopping you whenever he didn’t get it to ask you if what he got was correct.
“Does that make sense?” you asked him to clarify once you were done explaining, seeing him nod slowly, eventually looking up to smile at you, nodding more firmly.
“Yeah, thanks so much,” he told you, putting his notes aside and opening his laptop up, typing away at whatever paper he was doing.
You noticed how different it was for him to be sitting at the self-study tables versus when he sat somewhere exposed with you, seeing how many more people approached him to say hi or walked past with the intention of getting his attention, and you lost count of the number of pretty girls that had chimed in with a ‘hi johnny’, but not without shooting you a surprised look, as if to silently ask why you were sitting with him in somewhere that wasn’t a party setting.
“Sorry, is it distracting you?” Johnny noticed after a while when he’d connected how you’d tap your pen and take longer to return to your work each time a girl or guy had walked past him to say hi.
You looked back at him in surprise, realizing he’d caught you staring at the girl that had just walked past the both of you, saying she would see him at the next mixer.
“Huh?” you raised your eyebrows in question, hearing him let out a huff in amusement.
“Nah...you just seem a little… distracted, is all,” he said, a soft smile on his face as he twirled his pen between his fingers, making you scoff, panicked at the thought that your distraction had been obvious enough for him to notice.
“You should be the one that’s distracted, with someone coming by to greet you every five minutes,” you shot back quickly.
Johnny shrugged, bringing his cup of coffee up to his lips with a smile, taking a sip before he spoke.
“I don’t know, Y/N… you sitting in front of me is already plenty distracting.”
You shut your mouth quickly, a small scoff leaving you.
“You know you shouldn’t say things like that so casually,” you laughed nervously, seeing him put his pen down, as if prompting you to continue so you did, “might make me get the wrong idea.”
He hummed, as if pretending to consider your words, though he’d already made up his mind on what he wanted to say.
“I don’t know, Y/N, what exactly is the ‘wrong’ idea?” he asked with feigned innocence, scrunching his nose up slightly, earning an exasperated look from you.
“You know what I’m talking about, Johnny.”
“Then you won’t mind telling me, right? You know, so I know that we’re on the same page?” he shrugged, prodding you further.
“Okay, fine. I just meant that if you keep saying shit like that to me I might actually start to think you like me,” you huffed, highlighting another line on your book, looking up when you hadn’t heard a response from him.
Johnny Seo wasn’t someone that usually expressed his interest like this, he was used to casual flirting, not flirting to win someone over, especially when that person was you.
And now that he was finally in that position, finding a way to express his interest in a way that wouldn’t intimidate you was a lot harder than he’d expected it to be.
Johnny shrugged, “… maybe I do want you to think that.”
Your lips parted, not being able to find a proper response to what he said, choosing to stare at him in shock, the way he was looking at you with an expectant expression, picking up his phone and texting someone as you tried to recover from your shock.
“What’s... what’s in it for you?” you asked, seeing him look up from his phone screen, giving you a shrug as he set his phone back down on the table gently.
“Well, you... I guess,” he answered, making you furrow your eyebrows, still a little bit unconvinced that he was being sincere.
I mean, not that you had any reason to question him, but you just felt like it was too good to be true.
“Oh… uh, well.”
Johnny decided to put you out of your misery for now,
“Anyway, should we get going? Lecture’s gonna start soon.”
He'd gotten up from his seat, slinging his bag over his shoulder as he gathered the rest of his things in hand nonchalantly, and you did your best to shove everything into your bag before carrying it in front of you, as if hugging it would make you feel a little more sane after what he'd just told you.
“The guys are asking when they’re gonna be able to see you again,” he laughed, making you frown in confusion, slightly out of breath from climbing the stairs up to the auditorium.
“Well, when do you think would be a good time for that?” you asked, seeing him scrunch his nose up.
“If I’m being honest, I wouldn’t bring you to see them if I had a choice… can’t trust some of them not to fall for you,” he tilted his head, lifting his cap and adjusting his hair before putting it back on.
You couldn’t help the laugh that left you.
“What the hell, Johnny, then why’d you even tell me they wanted to see me again?” You huffed, laughing at the absurdity of the situation.
Johnny laughed with you, shrugging when he realized what he said could have made you very confused, choosing instead to shake his head, dismissing the previous statements.
“You know what? It’s alright. I’ll let you know when the next mixer is, but then again Lucas will probably tell you first."
You couldn't help but laugh, knowing that was very much true, distracted as you’d reached the auditorium. Since it was your first time entering with Johnny, you’d wondered if people always gawked at Johnny like this as he walked past them, pushing the door open for you to the lecture hall.
“After you," he bowed dramatically, making you shove his shoulders so he would straighten up, not wanting to attract any more attention despite being flattered by the gesture.
You tried to remain calm at Johnny had taken his seat beside you instead of behind you this time, claiming it was to make it ‘easier for him to borrow your stationery’ (even though the both of you sort of knew/hoped that it wasn't true).
You watched as your professor had walked into the room, setting up his things noisily on the table as he invited ( or demanded ) for everyone to take their seats, announcing that today's lesson was rather content heavy.
Sighing, you took out your book, flipping it open to the pages he was referring to and having your laptop ready to take notes, Johnny taking the liberty to lean over and ask you for a pen, the smell of his hoodie making you wish you could just lean forward and nuzzle your face into it.
But of course, you stayed calm, squeaking out a small 'go ahead' to him, seeing him smile and reach over you to grab at the pink highlighter in your pencil case.
"Y/N," you heard him murmur, and you'd raised your eyebrows, nodding at him to continue as you typed down what your professor was writing on the screen. You hoped he wouldn’t ask you what the professor had just said because you were definitely struggling to pay attention.
"Do you wanna get dinner after this?" he asked, making you snicker, trying to stifle your laughter before it could echo throughout the room.
"Johnny, the lecture barely even started," you turned to him with an amused look, seeing him dismiss your amusement.
"But yes, I don't mind getting dinner with you after this," you replied softly, seeing his eyes widen, pretending to stab your highlighter in his chest with a wince.
"Ouch, you 'don't mind’? Hey, if you don't wanna have dinner with me you can just tell me," he teased, making you roll your eyes.
"Shut up before I change my mind, Johnny."
You realized how distracting Johnny's presence beside you was, thankful that he hadn’t chosen to done this sooner or you would’ve definitely left lectures feeling as though you’d never even attended.
It was the way he would lean over to peek at what you were writing when he got lost, or the way he would play with his earrings absentmindedly, which would make his earrings fall off occasionally, and he would have to fumble around to get it, making you unconsciously put your hand against the table to make sure he wouldn't knock his head against it, an action that didn't go unnoticed by him.
"Y/N," he whispered, the harshness of it making the people in front of you turn around, and you gave them apologetic looks in return, turning back to face Johnny with an expectant look.
Johnny leant over closer to you, turning to whisper, "What did he write, I can't read his fugly handwriting—"
"Johnny is there something so important that you have to be interrupting Y/N in the middle of my class?" you winced when you heard your professor's voice echo through the classroom, drawing a load of unwanted attention to you.
Johnny smiled, shaking his head, "Nothing, professor, just talking about how much I love your handwriting."
The professor eyed him suspiciously, nodding slowly.
"Flattered, but I’d like you to pay attention to the words I'm writing instead of the way I'm writing them," he sighed loudly, turning back to recollect his thoughts and pick up where he'd left off.
You'd silently nudged your laptop towards him, gesturing with your finger at the words Johnny was having trouble deciphering.
"Oh, thanks," he giggled.
You were pretty surprised at how Johnny had been keeping up considering the fact that he didn't always have the best track record for lectures. You were almost about to commend him for it until you turned and realized his head was close to hitting the table, already falling asleep.
Suppressing your smile, you'd reached a hand over to pat his head, making him jolt awake, confusion laced in his features.
Pushing his cup of coffee towards him, you struggled with the urge to smooth down his messy hair, "drink something. It'll keep you awake," you whispered.
Seeing him nod gratefully at you, he'd finished the rest of his coffee, leaning back and straightening his posture in an attempt to make himself feel less groggy, even at one point resorting to thinking about you so there was no way he could fall asleep.
At one point you'd took pity on him, initiating games of ‘tic tac toe’ on your spare paper to keep him awake, not wanting the professor to call you both out again.
"Alright, since I’m already starting to lose most of you, I’ll wrap it up here today. You're all free to go."
Johnny let out a relieved sigh.
"Finally, I'm hungry. Quick, let's go eat," he stood up quickly, taking his hat from the table and adjusting his hair before hiding it under his hat as he waited for you, ignoring the people who were staring as they walked past the both of you on their way out, surprised that Johnny Seo actually made friends in his classes that weren't his frat brothers.
"Did you have any place in mind?" you asked, seeing him nod.
"But only if you're okay with it, of course. I was thinking we could go to the burger joint just outside campus," he told you, his words alone enough to make your stomach grumble.
"I'm more than okay with that," you huffed, seeing his smile grow bigger, wordlessly leading you out of the lecture hall.
"You seem to know this area pretty well," he commented, after the both of you had discussed the other food places in the area that you thought were good.
You nodded, "I mean, I kind of have to. I live here," you let out a small giggle, seeing his eyebrows raise in intrigue.
"Oh, you don't live in the dorms?"
You shook your head. Johnny nodded pensively, making you curious to his reaction.
"What’s with the reaction?" you laughed.
He shook his head, and you spotted the burger and pizza joint down the street you were currently walking on.
"Nah, just, that kind of explains why the guys haven't really seen you around school," you raised an eyebrow.
"Do they spend lots of time in the girls dorms?" you joked, a part of you not expecting him to look so serious as he replied you.
"… I guess you could say that," he shrugged.
Walking into the shop, the owner had recognized you from how often you and Lucas get food here, and she had seemed to recognize Johnny as well.
"Y/N, usual for you and Lucas?" she'd asked before turning to Johnny, "table for the rest of the guys as well today, Johnny?"
Your eyes widened, strangely feeling shy that you were here with Johnny instead of Lucas, but if Johnny was shy, he did a pretty good job of not showing it, simply shaking his head with a friendly smile on his face.
"Nope, just a table for the two of us will be fine," he told her, and now it was her turn to look surprised, only realizing now that the both of you had arrived together, doing a poor job of concealing her smile as she led the both of you to a booth at the side.
You nodded at her in thanks before she'd placed the both of your menus down.
"Do you know what you want already?" you nodded at Johnny's question.
"Great, then we'll just order now," the owner nodded, taking your orders before leaving you two (not without a cheeky 'have fun' leaving her lips as she left).
"So," Johnny began, glancing at how you were typing away at your phone, since Lucas was blowing up your phone asking if you were with Johnny.
6:59pm -yes im with johnny now leave me alone pls ill update u later-
You set your phone down, looking at him expectantly, but he was having his own crisis about wanting to be forward with you but suddenly not knowing how to flirt when he looked at you.
You were thankful for the water that they'd served, bringing it up to your lips and taking big sips to take your mind off how nervous you were in front of Johnny, not only because he looked so pretty up close but also because of the way he gave you his full attention.
"Do I make you nervous?" he suddenly spoke, almost making you choke on your water, wiping your mouth with the back of your hand, making Johnny simply stare.
"Uh....just a little bit?" you confessed, seeing his eyes crinkle at its corners when he laughed at you, his laugh bubbling out in fits, making you smile, enjoying how cute he looked like this.
"Is there anything I can do to make you more comfortable?" he asked, and in your flustered state you'd laughed nervously, shaking your head.
"It's fine, it's not that bad," you lied, "it's not your fault, I’m just hungry.”
The way he’d simply smiled at you had made your hands come up to cover his face from your view, urging your heart desperately to calm down.
Feeling him pull your hands down gently, you pursed your lips, making him cast you a very amused look.
"You weren't this shy at the party," he murmured teasingly, making you desperately glance at the owner for help, seeing her prepare to bring your food to you (which you were very thankful for).
"Yeah, well, you didn't necessarily come with a sign that warned me that you're even prettier when I’m fully sober," you laughed, seeing his eyes widen, your words catching him off guard, and you noticed the way his gaze shifted, looking elsewhere as he used one hand to cover his smile. Perhaps... did you just make Johnny Suh... shy?
The owner had come to give the both of you your food, amused at Johnny's flustered state, enjoying seeing this side of him that wasn't the always-calm, flirting-is-his-second-nature exterior he showed her whenever he and his frat brothers would visit the eatery.
"You should be careful with your words too," he finally spoke after gaining back his composure, "might make me think you're interested in me too."
He shoved a fry into his mouth, his cheeks puffing as he chewed and you tried to resist the urge to reach over and pinch his cheeks gently.
You shot him a look, maybe I kind of am, you wanted to say. But for now, you decided on simply nodding in understanding as you ate your food, not having enough guts now to say it to his face.
As you two ate, he'd asked you questions about why you chose your major, even asking you how you got to know Lucas when the both of you are so different, and you actually found yourself growing more comfortable with him as you talked, starting to feel less like he was someone you were intimidated by and more like he was someone that you could see yourself hanging out with in the future (or more, if luck was on your side).
At one point, you'd started to delve into the things that were practically itching at your mind since the mixer you'd gone for, curiosity pushing you to ask him questions about the things the guys had said about him.
"C'mon, don't tell me you've never sort of... you know, wanted to be with someone that you knew you could never actually have?" he defended, the both of your food having been finished long ago, simply nursing your drinks that the owner was kind enough to let you have refills for.
You furrowed your eyebrows, shaking your head at him, "thinking back on it now, i don't think it's ever really… crossed my mind," you told him, knowing that was a big fat lie because here you were looking at Johnny sipping his drink and wondering how good his plump lips would feel on yours.
Johnny rolled his eyes playfully.
"What a bore," he joked.
"Sorry, I guess I’m just not fratboy material," you shrugged with a giggle, making him sigh, bringing his otherwise empty cup to his lips to let an ice cube slide into his mouth.
“It’s a good thing, honestly,” he told you quickly.
"Does it bother you?" he asked, the question catching you off guard as you raised an eyebrow at him, a silent gesture to prompt him to elaborate.
"You know, the fact that I’m associated with that kind of... behaviour," he told you, the mood suddenly growing a little too serious too fast.
You shot him a look, not knowing how he expected you to be honest with him, "Look, it's no secret that you've… you know, built up that kind of reputation for yourself, but I can't lie and say that it doesn't bother me at all."
"What part about it bothers you?"
You were confused at his questions, not expecting him to care about what people thought of him, but you didn't know that this was just a result of him not wanting to disappoint you, wanting to be honest with you about his intentions.
"I don't know," you lied, shrugging and avoiding his gaze, feeling as though you were an open book under the intense stare he was giving you.
Johnny shot you a skeptical look, one that said there was practically no cheating yourself out of this question.
"Be honest, please,” his tone was gentle, pleading. How could you possibly refuse?
You let out a breath you didn't know you were holding, "I guess I just… don't know how genuine you're being with me, you know? You have this...ability, to win people over. I can't help it if I find myself wondering why you started approaching me, asking me out on dates like this—"
"So you think it's a date?" just like that, the seriousness of the situation had dissolved slightly, a mischievous glint in his eyes as he smirked at you.
You scoffed.
"I say all of that and that's what you got out of it?"
You shook your head, the owner returning with your receipt and the both of you taking that as your queue to leave.
"Oh, I heard all of it, Y/N, believe me." He said, his tone firm, "and believe it or not, I’m telling you now that everything I’ve done to approach you and get to know you so far was genuine, because I’m very much interested in you, Y/N. Like… for real.” he told you.
"I wouldn't have even made Lucas specially bring you to the party if I didn't mean it."
Your eyes widened at that, making you think back to all the instances where Lucas seemed so confident that Johnny was into you but each time you'd approached him it just seemed like a normal exchange between friends.
"… here?"
You were pulled from your thoughts when you'd heard Johnny speak, looking back at him with a sheepish expression, "Sorry, can you repeat that?"
He gave you a look of mock annoyance, sighing dramatically.
"I said, can I walk you home? I won't impose if you're not comfortable. I just wanna make sure you get home safe, since you live outside campus and all..." he murmured, and if there was a meter for how much you were starting to fall for Johnny, it would've definitely jumped up a little now.
You nodded.
"I'm alright with it," you said simply, shaking your head at the way he tried ( and failed ) to contain his smile, nodding slowly.
"Y/N—"
"Can we play the silent game, please?"
Johnny shut his mouth quickly, nodding and actually proving successful in keeping quiet the rest of the way.
Only when you'd reached your apartment block did he suddenly blurt out, "Okay silent game over!"
"Johnny, you can't just declare—"
"I know but please, just listen, alright? I know given the whole... nature of my love life, if you can even call it a love life, whatever I’ve promised you doesn't seem so… legit. But I swear, it's just... I’m so used to casual flirting that I kind of seem like that boy who cried wolf or help or something... whatever!"
He looked at you with wide eyes, almost desperate to convince you of his intentions.
"I can get why you could feel overwhelmed now, so I’m not expecting any answer from you now...but whatever it is, I’ll respect whatever answer you have to give me, okay? Whether you want to continue getting to know each other… with romantic intentions, or… you know, not."
You looked at him with raised eyebrows in surprise, not knowing what else to do other than to nod, especially with the way he'd seemed as if he was about to lean in, and your breath hitched, but Johnny had pulled away suddenly, nodding at you, his fists clenching behind his back.
"Goodnight, Y/N." he said, promptly leaving before he could mentally kick himself even more.
===
2:51am -lucas help i keep thinking abt what johnny told me during dinner n now i cant sleep-
Lucas 11:02am -meet me at the cafe on your street in fifteen minutes, u can thank me later lol-
Seems like Lucas knew you better than to think you'd actually give up a whole night's sleep for Johnny, ( which you didn't, you'd ended up passing out at 3:30 in the morning ), and you hadn't bothered to read the message properly before putting on whatever you had in arm's reach and brisk walking to the cafe to meet Lucas.
Only Lucas hadn't told you he was going to bring help that came with light brown hair and went by the name of Yuta.
Walking into the cafe, you'd made as if to walk back out when you saw Lucas waving happily at you, smiling as though he totally didn't warn you that a cute boy was gonna see you while you were dressed in your pajama pants and t-shirt, slippers on and hair still messy from sleeping.
"Lucas," you frowned, sitting yourself down at the table and seeing Yuta look at you with a blank expression, nodding his head at you in greeting.
Lucas clapped his hands together with a stupid grin on his face, "Okay, great. So, as I was saying just now, Johnny asked her to dinner—"
Yuta snorted, shaking his head as he kept his gaze on the coffee he was stirring, ice clinking in the cup obnoxiously as your stared, wide eyed and eyebrows furrowed at him in offence that he was laughing at your dilemma.
"Johnny doesn't do dates," Yuta snickered, before realizing the implication of the statement, his mouth pulling into a frown, "forget what I said, continue.”
"Yeah, so then, he tells her that he's really into her and that he won't pressure her to give him a reply now and that he wants her to think about it and shit," Yuta nodded as Lucas had explained, turning to glance at you curiously, a part of him strangely not finding it weird that his friend Johnny would be into this pajama clad, mess of a girl sitting before him.
"Okay, now, as Johnny's close friend, what's your verdict?" Lucas said, tapping a (very loud) drumroll onto the table, thankful that there wasn't many people in the cafe at this time other than other working aged couple who were talking louder than his drumroll.
Yuta looked at you, sipping his drink with an intense gaze scrutinizing you.
"Do you like Johnny?"
You felt your cheeks heat up, "I mean, he's really nice and—"
"Yes or no?" Yuta said again, firmer this time which made you yelp out a "yes!"
Lucas eyed the both of you with a wide smile, covering his mouth in an effort to stifle his amusement, watching Yuta's expression slowly turn brighter, leaning his head back to laugh heartily.
"Great, cause he's totally whipped for you. And in my experience of knowing Johnny for like… two going on three years now, he's a sap, and from what Lucas has told me, he's definitely into you, and not just for a fuck in case that's what you're concerned about," Yuta shrugged, his tone matter-of-fact.
You almost choked at his bluntness, nodding slowly, seeing Yuta shake his head with a small giggle, a very contrasting demeanour from how he usually appeared to strangers.
"Don't be stressed, Johnny's the most genuine guy I’ve met, and when he says something like what he told you, I can assure you he really means it."
Lucas applauded, laughter bubbling from his lips as if he'd been holding it for very long, and you watched as Yuta stood up, giving you a reassuring smile that made you feel like all was good in the world.
"There's gonna be another party at our house tomorrow... yeah, just saying," he winked, leaving you to ponder on what he'd said. All the while, a very smug looking Lucas was looking at you expectantly.
"So what do you have to say now?"
You huffed, rolling your eyes, "Thank you, Lucas."
===
Plucking up whatever courage your emergency counselling session with Yuta had given you, you'd ended up standing outside the frat house, intimidated by the all-too-loud and curse-laced song that was blaring through the house (Lucas practically had to push you in the house in your anxiousness).
Your heart was practically thumping along with the bass as you navigated through the crowd in the living room to reach the kitchen. Making a trip to the kitchen first, you'd gotten a bit of liquid courage in your system, having to force yourself from the snacks table when a group of people initiating body shots had come to invade your personal space.
Thankfully enough (though you were slightly disturbed), you'd spotted Ten in this said crowd, and he'd cast you a smirk before gesturing upstairs, leaning over to you to say (or yell) into your ear.
"Johnny's in his room!" he shouted, adding an "alone!" as an afterthought.
"Why are you telling me that?!" you yelled back, seeing him shake his head, practically shoving you out of the kitchen.
"Why do you think?! Just gooo!"
And so you did, glancing around to make sure the people around you were mostly preoccupied that they wouldn't see you going upstairs, since that area was restricted for guests unless they were invited.
You knocked on the door, hearing a “Go away, Jaehyun, I’m not playing spin the bottle!" that was unmistakeably Johnny, making you laugh, shaking your head.
"Johnny, it's me,” you called, “Y/N. Ten said I could find you here," you winced, accidentally speaking louder than you'd intended to, having gotten used to speaking at a yelling volume while you were downstairs.
It was only a matter of seconds before you'd seen the door open, revealing a messy haired Johnny dressed in a black sleeveless top and shorts, and you'd tried not to let your eyes linger on his exposed thighs, looking back at his hair.
"You cut your hair," you pointed out, seeing his hand go up to his hair with a shy nod, before realizing you were still standing outside his room.
"I did,” he gave you a soft smile, “Hey, come in," he cleared his throat, a million questions in his head about your sudden appearance here.
As if you read his mind, you began.
"Yuta told me that you guys were having a party," you explained your presence here, seeing him remove his laptop from his bed and place it onto his bedside table.
"Didn't expect you to show up, to be honest," he huffed, though the laugh didn't seem to reach his eyes, he'd almost looked worried.
"That's actually kind of why I’m here," you started, feeling a little more confident speaking from where you were standing at his door, "I gave some thought to what you told me the other day."
Johnny’s eyes widened, his hand coming up in a gesture for you to wait.
"Look, before you say anything, I hope you're not being pressured into giving me a response, I really do want you to be sure about your decision," he looked at you from where he stood at his bedside table, searching your face for any sign of an emotion he could place.
"No, really, I’m not. I made up my mind," you told him firmly.
"I wanna give this a shot—"
"It's alright, Y/N, I totally underst- wait, what?"
You couldn't help the huff of laughter that escaped your lips, nodding at him, "Yes, Johnny. I wanna give this a shot."
You saw him bring a hand up to run through his hair, letting out a small sigh, "I'm... really glad to hear that."
He continued, taking steps towards you that you barely noticed with how distracted you were by the triumphant feeling of getting that off your chest
"And, you've really been nothing but nice to me from the start, you didn't try to use me for parties or like... clout or whatever, or even for... other stuff, and I really appreciate that, you know?”
“But that bad part about that is that I don't know what other way to thank you..." you felt your heart start to pick up speed at his proximity, the way all he had to do was just lean over and he would be at a very, very dangerous proximity to you.
"But at the same time, how can I resist?" Johnny looked into your eyes, his stare almost wolfish, looking as though he were 3 steps ahead of you and you didn't even know.
"May I?"
Johnny asked, his voice just slightly louder than a murmur but softer than you'd ever heard him, and he'd brought a hand up slowly, as if testing the waters, taking your unwavering gaze at him to be a good sign as he let his hand cup the side of your jaw, warmth spreading through your neck as his thumb softly caressed your lower lip, letting it spring back gently when he removed his thumb.
How could you refuse, when everything in your body was aching for him to close the gap between your lips and his?
His other hand smoothed down from your shoulder to find its place on your hip, and you watched as he'd began to lean in, letting your eyes flutter closed when you heard him murmur, "relax, baby."
"I haven't done this in a while," you dared to whisper, a small huff of amusement leaving your lips, "I'm going to disappoint you."
He shook his head, a huff of laughter escaping him.
"Indulge me, I’ve been thinking about this for ages now."
He connected his lips with yours, and you'd kissed him back, gasping at the feeling of his hands going to the back of your thighs, urging you to jump as he wrapped your legs around his torso, not breaking the kiss as he led you to his bed so you wouldn't have to kiss with a doorknob poking into your back.
Moving carefully, Johnny sat on his bed, leaning against the headboard with your knees on either side of his hips.
He swiped at your lower lip with his tongue, making you laugh at the sensation, letting him deepen the kiss, hearing knocking at his door, pulling away from him quickly with a start when you heard Yuta's voice.
"Johnny, did you talk to Y/N yet? Lucas said he brought her here but she disappeared."
You gave Johnny a panicked look, seeing him raise an eyebrow at you, moving to press kisses to your jaw, trailing them down your neck, speaking between kisses.
"Go ahead, answer him,” his voice was so intoxicating, you’d almost forgotten what he’d said.
You could practically feel his smile as he rubbed his hands soothingly over your thighs, amused at your shock.
You rest your arm on his shoulder, fingers combing through his hair as you mustered up your voice to reply Yuta, Johnny giving the skin at your neck a light nip at your delay, making you tug at his hair unconsciously, almost eliciting a groan from him.
"Yep, I’m here, Yuta! You can tell Lucas—" you swatted at the back of Johnny's head when he'd blown cold air on the spot on your neck he’d bit just before, making you shiver from the ticklish sensation, "you can tell him everything's fine!"
You heard a pause before Yuta replied with a hum. (though you swore you heard Lucas' tell-tale giggle)
Johnny smiled at you, "where were we?" he used his thumb and forefinger to guide your mouth back to his, feeling him tense up when you let you fingers find purchase in his hair, making you laugh, amused at his reaction.
"I love it when you do that," he sighed, and you'd pulled away, shoving yourself off of him as you flopped onto his bed beside him, Johnny looking down at you with a look full of admiration and a giddy kind of happiness.
You scrunched your nose up at him.
"Hope that didn't disappoint," you laughed, your heart swelling when you heard his own little giggle.
Johnny reached his hand over to run it through your hair, pushing it out of your face, before letting his thumb smooth over the skin of your cheek, shaking his head at you.
"Definitely not. I’m so satisfied I might just ask you to do it again."
===
lucas 2:23am -so....if ure doing all that funny business w johnny....- 2:23am -does this mean we get free passes for parties now?-
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niel-trbl · 5 years
Text
I Loved You
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Old Crush!Bang Chan
Note: happy valentines day to everybody! hope you spend it well with your loved ones (unlike me, i spent it writing this but nonetheless, it was fun!) hope you guys enjoy reading this one and as always, if you have any requests or feedback, let me know in my ask!
Song Inspiration: I Loved You // Day6
It was a pretty long day - you were out showing your friend from overseas around the city. As you were walking around, you bumped into an old classmate of yours from high school, Woojin.
“You’re dating someone new i see,” Woojin looked over at your friend.
“Someone new? I’ve never dated anyone though,” you got all confused.
“I thought you and Chan... He said, everyone thought... you guys were a thing,”
“We were what?”
To give some context - Chan was one of your closest friends in high school. He also happened to be the person you liked back then. But after the whole confession thing that happened after graduation, you naturally stopped talking to one another. You needed that anyway, so that you can get over him as fast as possible.
But here you are, hearing this nonsensical thing about the both of you after so long. Weirdly enough, you suddenly felt a wave of your old feelings flooding back. You thought you were over him. You thought you completely forgot him. But of course, you thought wrong.
After that day, you decided to drop Chan a text which you totally didn’t keep on deleting and rewriting it asking how is he, just to take it slow and easy. It has been years since you last talked so you didn’t know how he’s been or what is he up to. Does he still take super long to reply to texts? Does he still use those stupid emojis? Does he still send replies with multiple typos? You decided to busy yourself instead of waiting for the reply, just so that it can keep your mind off things. In that very moment, you got a reply from him, almost immediately after you sent your text.
You: Hey Chan! Not sure if this is still your number but, how have you been?
Chan: Yep, you got the right guy! I’m doing pretty okay. What about you?
One thing you learnt about Chan is that he always sent you late replies, as compared to everyone else. You weren’t sure why but never bothered much about it. However, this sudden change sure got you surprised but you just went with it. Maybe he finally learnt how to reply faster.
So you spent a lot of the day talking to Chan - mostly just catching up and whatnot. It felt nice to able to talk to him again after so long. He used to be someone whom you confide in a lot back in school. So when you stopped talking to him, you couldn’t really confide in anybody about your thoughts and feelings.
Then came the question - can we meet up? Which you agreed quickly. You thought maybe it would be better to talk about the main thing face to face. Just so that you can get a proper reply from him, rather than waiting for a text that might never come.
Fast forward to a few days later, you are finally meeting up with Chan. You wondered how he looks after all those years. Did he still keep that curly hair? He always mentioned he wanted to keep his hair straight. Sure it’s his choice but you always wished he kept his curls. It was one of your favourite features of Chan. He used to always ask you to run your fingers through his hair. You always did it out of ‘force’ but deep down, you loved doing it.
So you were waiting at a cafe around town. It used to be one of the places both of you frequent back in school. It was also the same place you confessed to Chan. Coincidentally, you were sitting at the exact same table when you did that. The sudden memory of that day made your heart ached.
“________?” you looked up and saw the person whom you have been waiting for, Bang Chan himself.
He still looked the same, like how he did back in school, with the exception of some changes - like his now blonde hair. You remembered he briefly mentioned about it once but never thought he would actually do it. His hair still curly like how you remembered it, but in a more styled way. He had grown a lot taller and maybe even hit the gym. Out of all the changes, the one thing that never changed was his toothy grin and eye smile - the one you looked forward to seeing the most.
“It’s so great seeing you after so long! You’re still very small I see,” he teased you as he brought you into his chest for a hug.
“Hey! If anything, I think it’s you - you grew so much. You’re so tall! Oh I got you hot chocolate, that’s okay right?” you playfully punched his arm before taking a seat.
“Wow you remembered?”
“Of course! You’re the only weirdo who orders hot chocolate instead of coffee to stay awake,”
Both of you spent the day, catching up with one another and joking around. It really felt like the good old school days. You really did miss them and Chan especially. He understood you the best and even share the same humour code.
“Hey, sorry to interrupt your date but we’re having a Valentine’s Day cake special. Do you guys want a slice?” the waiter came up to your table.
“We’re not on a date but that cake sounds like a good idea. Do you want some? We can share it if you want,” Chan replied nonchalantly.
People always assumed that both of you were on a date every time you were out. Hearing it again after so long got you feeling some type of way. You then thought this would be a good time to bring up why you wanted to meet him.
“Funny huh, how they thought we were on a date?” you brought up after the waiter left.
“Right! We always get that whenever we go out back then,”
“Yeah... So, funny story - I bumped into Woojin the other day and he told me something really funny,”
“Woojin? Man, I miss him. How is he doing?”
“He’s fine. So-”
“Cake is here!” Chan suddenly exclaimed as the waiter placed the cake on the table then left.
He’s clearly trying to steer away from the main subject. Maybe he knew what you were getting to. The whole time you tried to talk about it, he kept changing the topic or stuffed his mouth with the cake.
“Chan, why did you tell everyone we were dating?” you quickly said before he changed the subject.
“C’mon Chan, don’t lie to me. You know I don’t like it. Why did you tell everyone we were dating when we weren’t?”
The whole atmosphere felt still and quiet. He just stopped eating and avoided your eye contact. After awhile, you got tired of waiting so you grabbed your bag and stood up to leave.
“I didn’t want anyone to ask you out,” he finally spoke up.
“What?”
“I did it because I didn’t want anyone to ask you out. I liked you, a lot,”
You couldn’t believe what you just heard. The reason why he told everyone that you were dating him and why he did so. You were happy to hear that he too liked you but you were also confused and angry at him for it.
“If you liked me, why didn’t you say so when I confessed to you?”
“I was scared! I wanted to confess to you for the longest time but I didn’t want to ruin what we had. What if we dated and broke up? I didn’t want to lose you,”
“You think I wasn’t scared? You think I didn’t thought of those things too? But I just took a chance, because what if I lose out on an opportunity of a lifetime? I was so heartbroken when you said no to me that day. I hated myself for taking that chance,”
“I’m really sorry. This one is really on me. I really didn’t want to make you feel that way. Please forgive me?” he held onto your hand.
“I don’t know Chan. You really messed me up. I don’t know if I am ready to forgive you for that,” you pulled away your hand, even though you missed his touch.
“I understand. But can we still be friends, if that is okay with you? I really enjoyed today and I really miss the old school times and I miss you the most. What do you say? I’ll follow your pace. I won’t push you if you’re not ready or don’t want to,” he suggested.
“I’m sorry but we are closing soon. Are you ready for the bill?” the same waiter came up to your table.
You thought long and hard about it. Were you ready to go through the same things you did before? Or do you want to move on and let it be?
“Yeah. We’re ready,” you smiled to Chan and held onto his hand.
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itbe-jess · 4 years
Text
Bjorn Miller (test drafts)
For my Family Matters reboot.
It was 4:30 in the morning. A young lad awoken by his phone, with the Jackson Five's "The Love You Save" playing over the alarm. He grabbed the phone, and switched the alarm off. However, he didn't feel the strength to get up. He couldn't pushed the snooze, since he knew the alarm would go off eventually.
He had trouble sleeping last night, for he watched a stupid click-bait video titled "Top Ten Proof Of Ghost Existence That Will Leave You In Heebies-Jeebies All Month Long." He tapped the video, out of his own curiosity and boredom. After finishing the video, he was so scared, he sat up in bed, frozen in a single position for two hours, heart racing. The silence of the room made him imagine like he was hearing things. And a slight noise from outside his window made him jump. Then he accidentally broke his bed. ...again. After watching some comforting cute cat videos, he fell asleep at 3:00 am.
Now that he's awake, he's thinking of resting for a few minutes. Suddenly, his eyes shot open wide. Whenever he rests his eyes, he loses count of the minutes, and therefore falling into a deep snooze. Which means he will oversleep, and be late for school. And when he's late for school far too many times, it will affect his attendance, and probably his grade. No way he's gonna be held back twice!
"$@#&! Mama gonna be very upset if I don't graduate and earn a diploma! (Get your stubborn fatass up, boy!!)"
He threw himself off the bed, and made the room shake a little. Before getting ready, he put the coffee pot on. Then he brushed his teeth, washed his face, showered-- There's no time to shower! I'll do that tomorrow! He got dressed, packed his stuff, went over his belongings twice to make sure he didn't forget something, then drank his coffee straight out of the pot, with cream of course. For breakfast, he put a single piece of toast in his mouth. All ready, he went out the door. Unfortunately, while in a hurry, he broke the door away from its joints. He hurried back in a panic, then scrambled throughout the living room and kitchen for sticky notes. He wrote out a message, and stuck it onto the dislocated door before hurrying to school.
Ma, Will fix it again after school. Don't you dare go through the trouble of fixing it yourself! Your Baby, Bjorn.
Meet Bjorn Miller. Age 17. He's a 6'1 musclebound giant, widely thick in the middle, with a gut sticking out. His hair is a cross between a 90s' fade and an 80s' Jheri Curl. He's very strong, but quite clumsy because of it. He's gay, Jewish, and holds a case of anxiety that cannot be helped. He also battles with his own thoughts.
.................................
During lunch time, Laura was eating her lunch in one hand, and holding a history book in the other. She was multitasking, I guess. Bjorn slowly approached her. He stood next to the bench she was sitting next to. He wanted to get her attention, and hoped that she would start talking to him. He was too timid to start the convo himself. He tried coughing, but she didn't respond. He tried coughing louder, but Laura seemed to be more concerned about her studying.
Bjorn decided to get closer. He sat himself upon the bench, which broke down from his weight. He finally got her attention. Despite what just happened, all Laura asked was
"Hey, aren't you the top dog of scholastic wrestling?" "Yup. That's me." "Alright. I'm Laura Winslow! Nice to meet you!" "Bjorn Miller. That's me. Of course, you probably already knew my name, given the fact that, I am the strongest wrestler. ...of scholastic wrestling. The class where we wrestle for sport. (Reeeeeeeeeeal slick, 'top dog!')" "Actually, I didn't know your name." "Heh. That's an embarassment. ('That's an embarassment?!' That reply is an embarassment!)"
Then a long silence took place. Bjorn was expecting a conversation. If Laura doesn't say something, he might as well do it himself. But, with the wrong words, it might lead to the wrong results. He's worried about how she'll react. Lunch ends in 15 minutes, and judging how Laura had her nose buried in that book, she doesn't look like she'll be asking any questions soon.
"(BOY, you better say somethin', right now!) Soooo, that nerd, what's his name, has been following you around lately! Should I do something about it?" "Him? Oh, don't worry about him. ...unless he's coming at you with an accordion, or a jar full of roaches. That's just Steve. Steve Urkel. Everyone in school knows his name." "So he's popular?" "I would say infamous." "Wow. Hey, what's your relationship with said nerd? I mean, Steve Urkel. The way he follows you around, are you sure he ain't a boyfriend of some kind?" "No, I have better taste than that! He follows me around cuz he merely looks up to me as the twin sister he always wanted. His *Urkel voice impression* sibling from another crib-ling." "Oh man, that's a relief. ...TH-THANK God he's not some dirty little creep!" "Tell me about it. If he was in love with me, I'd have to beg my parents for a state transfer. Being friends with him is hard enough, but could you imagine, with someone of the likes of Steve Urkel, falling in love with you?" "That doesn't seem so baaaaaaaa- I mean, yeah! Just makes you wanna VOMIT!"
Laura hesitated for a moment. It made Bjorn a little uneasy.
"Why do I have the feeling you have a crush on Steve?" "WHAT?" "You pretty much gave it away at 'That doesn't seem so bad.' Plus, it looks to me you're obsessed." "That was a vocal typo! Those exist and that's what I call them! 'Obsessed?!' You straight girls think you know everything about gay dudes based on how we dress, talk, or look at other men! We are not your GBFs, we are not your shipping material, we are real people, dammit! Our reality is not your little pleasurable fantasy and okay you're absolutely right you got me. (BITCH!)" "Heh heh, c'mon, you shouldn't feel ashamed. We Winslows are accepting individuals. ...except for Eddie, just a little. ...and Grandma. "It's not the being gay part that concerned me, well okay by 1/2, it's who I'm hitting for. Have you seen him?" "Child, once you've seen an Urkel, you've seen them all. And I don't care who you have the hots for. Just as long as it's not Eddie." "Why?" "He's so homophobic, he won't even hug his male buddy in private. Despite that, he still pro-claims himself as an ally." "Does he ever refer to-" "Yup. 'The gays.'" "Yeeeeeeeesh. Well, thanks for this conversation! Remember not to tell anyone! You wouldn't break a tall muscle dude's promise now, would you?"
Bjorn was about to leave, but then Laura grabbed hold of his arm. Rather than stopping him, she got dragged along the ground. Taking notice, he stopped and helped her back up.
"Aren't we still discussing your personal issue?" "We are? Oh, we are! Sorry! I thought you had forgotten the subject after you brought up your brother! (Actually that was just an excuse to get away. I knew I would regret talking to you! Boy, am I lucky you can't read my thoughts. By the way, I hate that shirt.)" "If you love Steve, you love him! It doesn't even matter. Sure, he's annoying, weird, clumsy, socially inept, boney thin, laughs like this, 'Heeh heeh heeh heeh!! *Snort*', has bad taste in music, wears his pants too high-" "You sayin' you respect how I feel about Steve, yet it sounds to me you're trying to turn me off." "Sorry. What I meant to imply, my opinion, everyone else's opinion, should not affect yours. If that's how you feel about Steve, then don't deny it! (Plus, if you could get a date with him, we'd be so relived to have him off our backs.)" "That doesn't help me, but I appreciate the support." "Well, I'm technically not a shrink, so-"
Laura was then interrupted by a nasally, obnoxious, and familiar voice.
"LAURRRRRAAAAAAAAAA!"
It was Steve, bouncing his way over to his "sibling from another crib-ling," wrapped in measuring tape. Bjorn then panicked. The nerd was coming closer any second, and there's no where to hide. He just stood behind Laura, holding her lunch bag in front of his face. When Steve made it, he fell face flat on the floor. Laura helped untie him.
"Another invention gone wrong, eh Steve?" "Either my self-measuring measuring tape still has a few kinks to calibrate, or it just doesn't like me." "The second hunch is believable." "HEYYYYYYY!"
Even Bjorn himself was offended by Laura's statement. Suddenly, the bell rang. Laura grabbed her book and moved on to fourth period. Steve, being a helpful friend, grabbed his buddy's lunch, without noticing Bjorn standing there. The large man was left frozen in place. Him and Steve practically made eye contact, and he just ignored him like a stranger off the streets. Or maybe an inanimate objects. Steve loves to annoy strangers. Him and Laura didn't even finish their chat. Well, not like he wanted that chat in the first place. Bjorn began to hear static. He looked down at the measuring tape Steve left behind. The thing reactivated, then limped away on its own.
...............................
Bjorn was walking through the school hallways, carrying around a hall pass. Waldo came around, dragging an empty sack with him, which belonged to P.E. class. As Waldo spotted Bjorn, he greeted him with a "'Sup."
"Why are you dragging that empty sack?" "Well, have you ever tried to push one?" "I-" "Excuse me, I'm on my way to the cafeteria before the trash bins empty out."
Waldo then walked on with his sack, leaving Bjorn more puzzled. He would've asked more questions, but he knows how sensitive Waldo can be towards "personal topics," even if it is stupid. Suddenly, he heard banging from the inside of a locker. He then followed the sound.
"You alright in there? Look, if you just give me your combination, I could help free you! And, I know we've never had acquaintance with each other before ('ACQUAINTANCE!' everytime I try to say something fancy or smart, it only comes out sounding dumb!) and I really don't know who you are, but you can trust me on this! Your locker code will be safe with me! Hell, I forget easily! (Great, now I sound like a creep!)"
All Bjorn got in response was mumbling. It sounds like that person is being gagged. Maybe they're tied up in there, too! Bjorn just said "FUDGE IT," then ripped the locker door open in a second. To his surprise...
"Steve?!"
Of all the kids to rescue today, it happened to be that cute little nerd. His mouth was taped shut. Bjorn assisted his friend out, then removed the tape afterwards. Knowing his own strength, he tried to peel it off as gently as possible. However, even with the most littlest strength used, he still brought Steve into pain.
"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" "Calm down, little man! I was only trying to help! I only asked for your combination so I could save the school from property damage! Look!"
After screaming, Steve took out a crumbled up, now soggy, piece of paper from his mouth.
"No. Its not you. I think part of my lip teared off on that tape." "Don't worry, no part of your lip parted. Even if it did, I say you'd still look good. Uhhhhh, I mean that in a platonic statement." "Hmmmm. That's the first time I've ever been told I look good! Heeh heeh heeh, *Snort*" "(That laugh, oh my god! I just wanna &$#@in' hold you!) I hope I'm not making a nosey impression here, but how did you get yourself into this awkward mess?" "Awwwwww, you aren't being nosey at all, my friend! I AM a genuine intellectual! You ask the questions, we answer them!" "Even if it's just a simple one?" "Right-a-reeno! Now, let me see if I could trace back- Oh yeah!"
Steve straightened the paper that was stuffed into his mouth earlier. It revealed to be a flier. A Bug's Life Is A Living Life.
"It's an organization I arranged myself, to help protect those poor defenseless insects! You have to look out for the little guys, you know!" "They stuffed you into your locker for that?" "Yes indeedy! I just don't see what's the problem! What do they have against bugs? Sure, they're not the prettiest sight to the human eye, but they're quite misunderstood, I assure you! In fact, they hold such ecological and economic importance to our environment!"
While Steve was giving his monologue about bugs, Bjorn stared at the nerd, pretending as though he were listening. The way Steve felt about bugs is the same way he feels about him. Steve was unattractive, strange, and conceived as a pest. He was more of a frog than a prince. But, in Bjorn's case, he couldn't see any of those flaws. Steve was something special to him. What Bjorn loved about Steve was how he was good spirited, friendly, and carefree. He manages to stay positive no matter what people think of him. He was the opposite attraction to a worrywart like Bjorn here.
Bjorn wished he could be as careless and fearless as Steve. And the way he cares for his friends is just so wholesome. He cares for them unconditionally. Always popping up to lend a helping hand, always volunteering to give company. Last thing to add was how nice Steve can be. A little too nice, but it just goes to show you how much of a loving guy he is. If he sees a sad soul, he will do anything do put a smile on their face. Steve is always willing to fix a problem, even if it's not his business. He is also willing to stand up for those who have contempt towards him.
Steve may not be perfect, but at least he's passionate, supportive, and kind. People like that make Bjorn's heart beat. Although they have nothing in common, they both can be very clumsy. He wants to tell him how he feels. He wants to tell him before its too late. Whatever that "too late" might be, he won't allow it. But, what if Steve doesn't return his feelings? What if he's really heterosexual? So far, he hasn't witnessed or heard Steve give disgust towards same-gender pairs. It could imply that Steve may be queer himself, or he's just an ally. Bjorn thought, "I could respect Steve's choice, but I'll also be unhappy. It's not gonna be easy finding another one like him." He's got to tell Steve eventually. Now or never.
"Steve?" "Huh?" "Could we change the subject? If not, that's okay. Keep talkin' about your bugs, or somethin'." "Shoot!" "What?" "Go on! Tell the Urk my-ster what you have on your mind! I'm all ears!" "*Gulp* Okay." "My goodness, you're all sweaty! It must be very personal!" "(Now I wish you'd continue talking about your bugs again) Well, I wouldn't say it's MY problem. I have this... ...anon who posted this question to me yesterday on my blog." "'Anon?' Sounds like some slimeball con. That’s certainly something to get hot up about.” "No, Steve. Anon is short for anonymous." "Oh." "They sort of have an issue, involving a crush. They told me they love said person, but they don't know how to bring out a confession. How do I respond?" "Hmmmmmm... sounds like a hopeless romantic distress. Ya know, despite my lack of experience in romance, although the closest I've ever had was a unrequited affection for my fifth grade science teacher, Ms. Rohrback, one of the few pointers I could give to this so-called 'Anon' is to walk right up to said crush, and say, *Grabs Bjorn's shirt and speaks in a raspy tone* 'I can't help but think about you all day. My heart beats rabidly everytime I hear your name. You have no idea what this feeling is doing to me! Look into my eyes, and let me tell you... ...I love you.'"
Steve's gesture made Bjorn's heart beat louder, and he began to sweat more.
"Oh my! Bjorn, I think you oughtta see a nurse! You're more sweaty than usual, and I can hear your heart beat!" "No, I'm fine! Actually, maybe I will pay the nurse a visit! But could I ask a few more questions?" "Well, make it quick! You look as though you're ill, you poor lug!" "What if this anon happens to be shy?" "Tell them to take all the time they need!" "Yeah, but what if they are worried that said crush won't love them back? What if they get rejected?" "Ah, there's plenty of other fish in the sea." "What if they can't find another fish?" "Why are you so concerned with a person's, whom you've never met, social life? Unless these additional questions happen to belong to the Anon themself!" "Of course not! I mean, yes they do! I mean, I don't remember! I probably just dreamt of it!"
Bjorn is reaching his limit. Steve must be getting warmer to him. He is a genuine intellectual. Hell, Bjorn has likely gave himself away with all the sweat he's broken into, the loud heart beat, and these stupid questions. Bjorn yelled "I should get back to class now!" then ran straight through a wall, leaving Steve confused. The janitor came by and soon noticed the big hole. He turned his eyes towards the nerd.
"Well, now, don’t look at me! I didn't do that!"
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sailor-cresselia · 5 years
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okay so that article on burnout i reblogged immediately before this post.
i started to write a freaking tag essay and realized that was a terrible idea.
so here, have a post under a cut.
(also, like, there’s probably going to be copious swearing because? i’m actually trying to avoid censoring myself for this one? we’ll see.)
The decision paralysis, the concept of ‘not meeting adult-hood landmarks because they don’t exist anymore’, the idea of ‘being one of the more productive people on the work floor is still not enough, because i can’t get things done at home’...
well fuck, i’m in this fucking picture and i don’t fucking like it.
i mean, i suck. i know i suck, and people just get mad at me when i say that. and i’m damn well aware they’re mad at the sentiment and not at me, but since i’m the one thinking the bullshit, then they’re mad at me for it existing. it’s just that they don’t see it that way.
because my brain is dumb, which means i’m dumb.
anxiety fucking sucks, and i’m not even sure if that’s one of the things i was diagnosed with anymore, because the only ones i remember were ‘depression’ and ‘aspergers’, but. like. i’m not sure the depression one was accurate, and technically speaking aspergers doesn’t exist anymore? because god fucking forbid we want to have something to call it. also, they didn’t actually tell me the autism one until i was entering high school, and i’m pretty sure that i’d been diagnosed mid-middle school. and also i’m not even confident i remember any of that correctly, since everything blurred together pretty much immediately.
the sentiment of “There’s a word for it” is so fucking important, especially when you have trouble putting things in words. when your mouth and brain are running at different speeds, and you can’t say the thoughts before you lose track of which sentence you were on, you need to have a phrase ready. But if you don’t, you get the pauses that frustrate everyone including yourself, and mean that nothing actually gets said.
see: every fucking time i try to talk to anyone.
i got sidetracked again. i was planning to ‘copy’ the tag essay over here. whoops.
The thing about the ‘decision paralysis’ that the article mentioned... well, one of the many things about it, is that you can’t actually explain it to someone who doesn’t go through it themselves. See again: “There’s a word for it.”
I have yet to be able to explain to my parents that “No, i really have trouble with making a fucking decision on how to find the music you want for that playlist. I can’t figure out what search terms to use, because I don’t actually know what you’re talking about for ‘dinner music’, and the explanations you were able to give didn’t. actually. y’know. help.”
That’s not their fault, that’s on me being stupid and dumb.
i can’t make a decision because i freeze up. I freeze up because i know i will inevitably get some part of the decision wrong, and it doesn’t matter how infinitesimal that part is, it’s still wrong. and having been in the ‘advanced track’ or whatever the hell we called it at my school, i got convinced that even slightly wrong is completely wrong. and that’s just not okay.
i don’t even think that sentiment actually came from the teachers? or the lessons? or anything really? but welcome to america, where if you’re in the ‘high performing’ section, you somehow get convinced that anything less than perfect is as good as a failure.
(where you go on a vacation to disney in fourth grade and are still required to write the mandatory journal entry every day, even though you don’t. know. what. to. say.)
(a lot of those ‘daily writing assignments’ we did wound up being my first forays into fanfiction actually. ... i don’t really know what my teachers thought of those particular entries. wish i could find some of those notebooks, it would be good to post for a laugh.)
but i digress. again.
i can’t explain the ‘i’m not able to make a decision’ thing to anyone. because i freeze up when trying to figure out how to explain it, and that leads to the awkward pauses in speech, which leads to a completely different form of freezing up, because i don’t want to annoy people.
Being annoying is basically the same as being wrong and failing, after all.
And. like. i know that getting stupid, mundane things ‘wrong’ isn’t the end of the world. i’m well aware of that, you don’t need to keep reassuring me of that, okay? because that reminder just makes me feel worse, because it means i’m getting upset over stupid fucking things, instead of anything that’s actually bad.
which just leads to another thing that i can’t explain to people, because feeling wrong about stupid things means that I haven’t made enough of a successful effort at being better at being a functional person. That’s what winds up frustrating them, which makes me start tearing up because that’s just what fucking happens, which leads to me just not talking anymore.
because emotions are the enemy and are so often the wrong ones and so much as mentioning them just makes everyone else angry, so. it’s just. best. not to bring it up.
Like, i know that all of this is dumb. so i’m being dumb for thinking that way. But i can’t actually explain that vocally, because then people (my parents) assume (probably) that i’m saying i’m not intelligent. i can’t explain that no, that’s not what i’m saying. i’m saying that the thought itself is dumb, and that the act of thinking said thought is dumb. not that i, myself, am not smart. i know i’m smart. i’m just terrible at being smart.
so i can’t explain that. because there are different definitions for what ‘being dumb’ entails - there’s ‘i’m not intelligent’, which i think is what they conclude i’m saying when i try to explain this stuff, when it’s really, really not. what I’m saying is that the action itself is what’s moronic. but i can’t get that across without tripping over my damned tongue and pausing, and grumbling about dropped words, and frustrating everyone involved in the conversation to the point where i wind up just saying never mind, it’s not important, and changing the subject. or walking away. or letting them change the subject, because fuck knows i’m just going to get that wrong somehow too.
i can’t even fucking put something in the grocery cart when we go shopping, because that’s being super fucking rude and inconveniencing everyone. I’M TWENTY EIGHT AND I CAN’T ALLOW MYSELF THAT.
I live with my parents. that’s another failure, here in the states anyway. because i’m not independent, it’s not even the ‘starting a family’ bullshit, it’s the ‘not able to live on my own because i’m obviously not trying hard enough to not be a fucking dysfunctional coward’ bullshit.
also, for some reason everyone i know in real life, like, people who went to high school or college with me, all think it’s really out of character when they hear me swear? i dunno, because they think i’m too polite or something?
guys. no. it’s that i didn’t talk. ya know, because i’m a fucking coward. or shy. or whichever term you’ll accept for ‘human interaction is fucking terrifying and i’m going to get it wrong somehow whenever i try, so i’m just not going to fucking try that.’
(seriously, people, if i tell you i’m a coward or shy, whichever one i go with, please don’t tell me that that’s not true? because that’s like. the one way we could agree about my rampant social anxiety issues, and i would like people to accept that as an explanation for once, instead of trying to reassure me that it’s not true. because it is. those are the nice, socially acceptable ways of putting the problem.)
(also, like, reassuring me that ‘things are okay, you don’t need to get upset’ actively makes me more upset. It ALWAYS has. That’s not going to change anytime soon. For fucks sake, please stop saying that i ‘don’t need to worry.’ i’m well fucking aware of that, and when i literally ask you to stop saying that, and you say you’re going to make sure to remind me it’s okay, you are literally just making it worse and means i can’t fucking talk to you.)
basically everything is dumb, and i’m dumb and sick of being dumb, which means i’m even dumber and i can’t say a damn thing about it, because it’s rude and inconveniences everyone, and it means i’m. not. trying. hard. enough. to. make. life. work.
... see, if i could, like, print this shit up and hand it to my therapist tuesday? (if that’s even what the meetings are? i don’t fucking know at this point) that might help. or it might get me in hot water. so i’m probably not even going to try.
because the usual reaction from pretty much anyone ever is ‘are the medications not working anymore?’ and that’s. not true? i think? they’re working. i think. but it’s not like i’d know what my actual baseline is without them. because i always feel physically awful if i miss them, but i’m an anxious wreck either way. and since said state of being a wreck is to different degrees from day to day, it’s not like i’ve got a baseline for with the medications, either.
fuck everything, is basically what i’m saying.
... i can’t tell if i got off topic or not anymore. i’m gonna go edit this for spelling and spacing issues now, because while keeping typos in might be more authentic and natural, it also means i feel like an idiot for not being better at typing when i know full well i’m spelling things wrong.
not going after capitalization though. that’d just be a pain in the ass, and caps and italics are a part of tone.
you will have to pry my formatting from my dead, colder hands.
(i run really fucking cold, or at least my extremities do. like, i can put my hand on my face, and i know that it’s way too cold to be normal. i’m pretty sure that’s a bad sign, but it’s literally always been true, so. ??? that’s just how it is.)
(yeah, wow, there were a lot of typing fumbles in here. all of those are gone now. this got stupidly long. why am i allowed to write again?)
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elleberquist6 · 6 years
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Stray Cat - chapter two
Rating: Mature Word Count: 1748 Warnings: Past Abuse, Past Rape/Non-con, Slow Burn, Eventual Smut Summary: Phil Lester believes that if he does good things then good things will happen to him, so on one of the worst days of his life he invites a rain-soaked Neko boy named Dan into his home. Phil has never met a Neko before and he knows nothing about the dark system that has molded Dan. Dan is part of a repressed population with few rights, and as Phil gets to know him he can’t understand why – Dan is the most amazing person he has ever met. --- Phil and the Neko entered the apartment building and walked up the stairs in a comfortable silence, but once he unlocked his door and they went into his home, the silence became a bit more oppressive.
The boy was the first to move, taking off the borrowed jacket and hanging it on the hook beside the door so it could dry. Phil smiled at the boy and gestured to the kitchen, where their dripping clothes wouldn’t ruin the tile floor. “If you'll wait in there, I’ll get some towels.”
They parted in the hallway, and Phil retrieved two large, fluffy towels from his linen closet. When he returned to the kitchen, he found the Neko staring at an overripe banana that Phil left on the table, meaning to throw it away, and the Neko was practically drooling.
“Wow, you really must be hungry.”
The boy blinked in surprise at Phil’s reappearance and at the towel Phil tossed him, but he caught it. The Neko continued to sit at the kitchen table while he dried himself, but Phil leaned against the kitchen countertop, preferring to stand while he thought. They both rubbed the towels roughly across their arms to get the blood flowing, and as the Neko dried his ears and then hair, Phil realized that the wet waves were going to dry as curls, which probably looked rather cute.
Phil finished with his towel first, since the Neko needed to dry his tail next. While he did, Phil turned to his kitchen cupboards, which he knew were nearly empty. “Hey, I promised you food, but I don’t know what you like to eat.”
For some reason, Phil had hoped that the warmth and safety of his kitchen would encourage the boy to start talking, but when he turned around he’s met with the same silence that was becoming familiar. Could he be mute? At least the Neko was looking less miserable.
Phil bit his bottom lip as he thought, and he finally decided to think out loud since he was unlikely to get a response. “I don’t know if I said, but I have never met a Neko before, and I don’t know what you guys eat.”
The Neko was now looking at him with interest as he rubbed the towel over the damp fur of his tail. His ears were upright and pointed forward.
“So,” Phil said. “Would it be insulting if I made you a tuna fish sandwich, or would you like it?”
The Neko burst with sudden laughter, and the sound warmed Phil to his core. Phil decided to make him a saucer of milk, just to hear the sound again. He made himself a sandwich too, since this was about the time he’d normally be having dinner. They ate in comfortable silence, though after hearing him laugh Phil was pretty sure that the Neko could talk but he just didn’t want to now. Phil decided not to press the issue, and he relaxed, enjoying the boy’s company. He could tell that the boy was hungry as he finished half the sandwich in the time it took Phil to take a couple bites of his.
Once they had both finished dinner, Phil asked the boy, “Do you have anywhere to go tonight? Maybe there is someone you could call if I let you use my phone?”
Phil hadn’t expected a response. Up until now, the Neko had just stared at him and barely indicated that he understood a word Phil was saying, but this time he shook his head.
“Do you want to spend the night here?” Phil asked, and the Neko’s eyes widened looked afraid, but Phil wasn’t sure why. They were still wearing wet clothes, and shivering slightly, so Phil decided to offer more incentive. “I have some spare pjs I can lend you and my couch is pretty comfortable.”
The boy relaxed and accepted the offer with a nod and a slight smile. Phil left the Neko in his bathroom with a blue flannel pj set, and by the time he returned Phil had brought a pillow and a duvet to the couch. The Neko slumped onto the couch, looking exhausted and his ears were drooping. His hair was completely dry now and was a wild mess of curls that made Phil want to try to tame it with a brush; he looked so young like this.
As he closed his brown eyes, Phil noticed something around his neck – it’s a black collar with a silver tag hanging from it. There’s something written on the tag, but Phil would have to lean closer to read it, and he didn’t want to startle the Neko by getting so close. He cleared his throat to make the boy reopen his eyes. “I’m going to go to my room now. Good night.”
The Neko nodded and as Phil left the room he burrowed under the duvet. Phil shut his bedroom door, but he didn’t turn off his light, as this was much earlier then he usually went to bed, but he didn’t want to keep the tired boy awake with the noise of the TV in the living room. Instead, he turned on his laptop and pulled up Google. He typed “Neko” into the search field.
The first results didn’t tell him anything he didn’t already know: Nekos were cat-human hybrids with ears and tails. There was a lot of social discrimination against them and laws that prevented them from getting jobs and owning property – instead, Nekos were the ones who were owned.
He saw a website that seemed to offer advice to Neko owners. He didn’t own the boy in his living room, but there might be something useful here, so he clicked on it. There was an article on the website called ‘My First Neko’, and he started reading.
Congratulations on your purchase! As you get to know your new Neko friend, there are some things that you should understand about them. Personality: As a species, Nekos tend to have the following very common positive personality traits – they are sweet, caring, playful, and loyal. There are also some negative personality traits common to Nekos, such as laziness, short attention spans, and gluttony. Also, they are helpless and dependent on their owners for all needs.
Needs: • Food: First, your Neko will need food. The average healthy Neko can follow the same diet as their owner, so just make your Neko a serving of whatever you are eating, and they should be happy. • Clothes: Your Neko will need clothes to keep warm. While they can wear pants with their tail tucked into a pantleg, most Nekos are more comfortable with a hole cut in the pants to accommodate their tails. • Heat: This is a monthly healthcare concern for adult Nekos, as they can become ill if not properly cared for during a heat. A physician can prescribe heat suppressants to diminish the affects of the heat, though this is costly. A cheaper alternative that most owners prefer is to handle their Neko’s heat by themselves. • Toys: Remember that your Neko can become bored easily, so use toys to keep them entertained. From the innocent to the wicked, we have it all! Click [here!] to view our online store Grimacing in disgust, Phil clicked away from the website. While Phil didn’t like the way that the article referred to Nekos like they were inferior creatures, he was sickened by the abruptly sexual content of the article. It wasn’t really like that for Nekos, was it? They weren’t looked at as sex toys. Were they?
Of course, he’d heard of their reputation. While Phil had never met a Neko in real life before today, the little he’d seen of them had been in movies and on TV. Sometimes it wasn’t a real Neko and it was just an actor with ears and a tail pinned on, but the role was always the same: sex worker. They were portrayed as strippers, prostitutes, escorts, porn stars, and they always met violent ends.
Phil shook his head because this had to be a stereotype. The Neko sleeping on his sofa was just a kid, and Phil couldn’t imagine him going through some of the situations he’d witnessed on Law and Order: SVU. He cleared the search field on Google and typed ‘why do people buy Nekos’. The results weren’t very helpful since it seemed like not many articles had been written on this topic besides the vague few that claimed Nekos were for companionship. It seemed more likely that it’s an open secret – everyone knew what Nekos were used for, and no one wanted to discuss it.
Before he could click away, he saw that as he scrolled down his results yielded something different: not why do people buy Nekos, but where do people buy them. Phil already had one more Neko on his hands than he knew what to do with, but the name of one website sounded promising: ‘Neko House’. It was located in London not too far from where Phil lived, so he investigated further on their website.
As he was about to click on the listings for Nekos on the website out of curiosity, he saw another option for ‘sell’. He clicked it. There was contact information stating that Neko House would buy healthy Nekos, no questions asked. The standard offering price for Nekos was also listed, and the number of zeros in the offer made Phil gape. That had to be a typo. They couldn’t actually be worth that much. £10,000. That was 5 months of rent for Phil.
At the same time though, how could anyone put a price on a living creature? The idea made Phil shut his laptop, not wanting to see any more. He had just wanted to find someplace safe for the boy because tomorrow the boy would be back on the streets if Phil didn’t do something. A place called Neko House sounded so perfect in name, but would the boy be safe if he gave him to them? And what about the money? He could use it to live comfortably while he looked for a new job, but how could he spend it, knowing that the Neko he had sold might be used as a…
He couldn’t think about that anymore, so he placed his laptop on the floor beside his bed and he turned off his light, leaving his problems for another day.
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About me
Book, Paper, And Printmaking Facilities
Book, Paper, And Printmaking Facilities During snack time, we could choose between apple juice and grape juice. I favored apple juice more, but if everyone else was choosing apple, then I had to choose grape. This was how I lived my life, and it was exhausting. As a whole, this prompt lends itself to reflective writing, and extra particularly, talking the reader by way of your thought processes. In many instances, the exploration of your thought processes and determination-making is more necessary than the actual consequence or concept in question. However, keep away from sounding morally superior (as if you’re the only person who went in opposition to this conference, or that you simply’re higher than your peers for doing so). This prompt is troublesome to reply because most high schoolers haven’t participated within the kinds of iconoclastic protests against societal ills that lend themselves to an awe-inspiring response. ” After months of quiet anger, my brother lastly confronted me. An example of this could possibly be learning the way to bake along with your mother, thus sparking a newfound connection with her, allowing you to learn about her past. Having a long discussion about life or philosophy together with your father may additionally suffice, thus sparking more thoughts about your id. One option is to discuss a formal accomplishment or event that reflects private progress. To my disgrace, I had been appallingly unaware of his pain. When my parents learned about The Smith Academy, we hoped it might be a chance for me to find not solely an academically challenging surroundings, but additionally a community. And whereas there was concern about Sam, we all believed that given his sociable nature, moving can be far much less impactful on him than staying put might be on me. This prompt lends itself to consideration of what aspects of your character permit you to overcome adversity. Background also consists of your social environments and the way they’ve influenced your perception. In addition, you can highlight intersections between a number of backgrounds and present how every is integral to you. In the case of browsing, the salty water, weightlessness of bobbing over the waves, and fresh air may cater to senses. Alternatively, for much less physical subjects, you should use a practice of thought and descriptions to point out how deeply and vividly your mind dwells on the subject. A tip for expanding on these topics and reaching specificity is to pick specific particulars of the topic that you simply discover intriguing and explain why. This immediate allows you to expand and deepen a seemingly small or simple thought, topic, or concept. Alternatively, a extra relaxed method to tackle this prompt is using an off-the-cuff occasion or realization, which might let you present extra personality and creativity. If you go this route, ensure to debate why the ritual was significant and the way particular elements of mentioned ritual contributed to your private development. An example of this could possibly be the which means of turning into an Eagle Scout to you, the accomplishment of being elected to Senior Leadership, or finishing a Confirmation. In the case of religious matters, however, remember to not get carried away with details, and focus on the character of your personal development and new understanding — know your viewers. Bottom line, the topic you select for this immediate should, like each matter, highlight your personality, id, and how you consider the world. It can be easy for you to get misplaced in your words after studying and rereading, writing and rewriting. It is finest to have someone else do your last proofread to help you determine typos or sentences that are unclear. In many circumstances, the additional writing you do for this draft will contain compelling content. “Whenever somebody hears my name for the primary time, they remark “Wow, Jensina is a cool name.” She must be pretty cool. When I was little, these sentiments felt extra like instructions than assumptions. I thought I had to be essentially the most distinctive child of all time, which was a frightening task, however I tried. I was the only kid in the second grade to paint the solar red. A particular person’s background contains experiences, coaching, training, and culture. You can talk about the expertise of rising up, interacting with family, and how relationships have molded who you might be. A background can embrace lengthy-term interactions with arts, music, sciences, sports activities, writing, and lots of different discovered skills. Using this, you can carve out the varied sections and knowledge that let you inform your story best. Sometimes, it can be helpful to begin by jotting down the 3-5 features of your personality or experiences you’ve had on a bit of paper. Play around with narratives which might be constructed out of various combinations of those essential attributes earlier than settling on a immediate. Before reading the prompts, brainstorming is a critical train to develop high-stage concepts.
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geek-gem · 6 years
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OK KO Back Into Red Action
3:42 pm including I checked the episode title first twice on TV and saw the time changed and the time many seconds ago changed on here. Now it's 3:43 pm but now I just watched the episode commericals on including I'm gonna mention spoiler in here I'll tag it.
Really it was a nice episode. Including a surprise mainly even if last night I saw a screen cap of the title last night okay bro came in here nothing much I said hi and asked him how was school he said good. Heard him close his door including he closed my door first after he left.
But yeah I saw mainly two screen caps of the title screen and checked the guide last night.
Honestly it's a good episode. Including we get to know more of Red Action. Looked up to the right, "We Got Hacked" is on almost put let's get hacked almost I at times think of that title.
Yeah we get to know more of Red Action and basically well see her in action. Basically the episode starts off with Enid admiring Red Action's blog and even surprised by Red Action taking a picture of her and her too. Including Red Action invites Enid yet she says it was an option and also KO is excited about it. Yet Red Action is able to get Enid to come along leaving the gum she bought to come out and some how take it.
Turns out and even during when Enid is looking at pictures on Red Action's blog she's a time traveler which is interesting. Including as the episode went on the world of OK KO is in the year 21x they said supposedly a year I supposedly while Red Action is from 31x so interesting. Right thumb itched right side of nose.
Basically hanging out and Enid and Red Action kind of having the time of their lives. They are soon chased by a group sorry if I spell this name wrong Futroop or some shit. Including sorry if I'm wrong they seem to be parodying the Power Rangers in a way or just indeed. Including the backstory of them and their designs.
Their chasing Red Action because by mistake she broke this crystal that's been passed down from generation to generation of other Futroops. Including yeah I'm kind of describing the episode.
I didn't laugh much if I remember. But it was a nice it was a Enid with focus now on Red Action. Along with I suppose character developed. Mainly this part when Red Action reveals who she is. Along with telling Enid she's more cooler then her and basically admires her. Including thinks she's very cool and that she's too nervous to even comment on her pictures.
Mainly the episode ends with the both of them deciding to fight the Futroop and a meteor Red Action revealed in her story comes down. Including a new crystal or something is there. Okay, "We Got Hacked" just got finished I need to change it. So it turns out Red Action never planned this and because of Enid giving her a look she tells the truth about that. Including she likes being in 21x and decides to stay there. Along with she's good with her team again.
Now I remember I wanted to mention honestly it's weird when I think of a timeline for shows. I think of modern day and I head canon Enid as 18 and if we go by today's timeline 1999 to 2017. It's some stupid shit not really. It's mainly how old is think she is. Including from what I read she's mentioned to be in her late teens which is 17, 18, and 19. She seems like a young adult to me.
So I just sat back down switched the channel to let me look yeah mtv2 with Ridiculousness on.
But also what happens next the two girls are overjoyed or basically with Red Action saying in a way it wasn't much of what happened. So Enid recommends a insane and extreme thing known as volcano surfing with Red Action overjoyed by the idea of it despite mentioning she doesn't know what it is. Despite the name volcano surfing oh head.
Really it was a nice episode. Also that Danger Zone thing I'm surprised their wasn't more of a reference to the Danger Zone song or even Enid referencing the lyrics or hearing the song. That's what I expected.
Also to be honest please don't be bothered by this. The way the episode starts off. I was seriously worried Red Action was gonna be a jerk and try to embarrass Enid and just destroy even more of her trust with people. I was being cautious. Basically kind of what happened, "You Have To Care" the back story we got.
It's mainly because the way Red Action is first presented in, "Your Everybody's Sidekick" and how at first she used KO along with the other quote on quote cool kids. Even despite the end where she likes it the KO helped her with her hair. I even just this Red Action blog I follow the idea she tries to keep this tough image of herself. It's mainly that episode. Basically other times she's appeared, "Your Level 100" sorry if I got that title wrong where she's a bit upset that KO isn't 100. Other times she's just been around. Including, "Plaza Prom" and, "KO's Video Channel" where he tells Enid and Rad about their dancing video and despite giving a critical statement or heads up she might of laughed at it too.
Including writing that last part I realized just why the.....for some reason don't wanna say the f word but just me over studying this well bullcrap.
Also the last time I wrote Enid's name before I mentioned the episode, "KO's Video Channel" I rewrote her name a lot even typos.
But yeah about Red Action it's quite off topic. It seriously looked like that to me at first. Yet turns out I was wrong good and a lot more heart felt that Red Action actually thinks Enid is so cool she's too nervous to comment on her pictures.
Honestly even Red Action's vehicle I thought I was seeing the tank from, "You Have To Care" yet it's a different vehicle. Even writing this post I think when I started about maybe I thought Red Action was gonna be that way I remembered what the tank well it's a tank it looks different no doesn't suck just this is a hover vehicle oh it is a tank in a way.
Honestly really nice episode I liked it quite a bit........should I mention it just honestly the shipping if you like it I have no problem. I'm not the biggest fan or even of the other one. Not being mean or anything yet it seems better then the one from, "You Have To Care" but I'm not the biggest fan of ships I'm sounding like a hypocrite. It's just I feel people are gonna talk about that. So I might as well say my opinion. What I meant I'm not the biggest fan of ships is that I don't really obsess not trying to stereotype or even think much about them or just it depends. Also some personal weird feelings too.
Got tags done almost left the word rags it's tags. Yet seriously good episode also think one of my friends started watching the show he texted me about KO having two voice actors and I'm confused too almost left the word room instead of too. But stuff like KO's voiced by kid Goku I'm not the biggest fan of Dragon Ball yet seen much more of it with Dragon Ball Z Kai and seeing it's still going. Kept retyping still. But also I don't wanna mention him because of spoilers for him unless he's seen the episode.
Ether wise almost left the word food sorry....I mean good just ticks.
But ether wise entered a few times by mistake sorry ummm just seriously good episode. Luckily next Friday is a day off 4:22
Edit 9:40 pm after making a post I found out it's 301x to 201x wow and I am just.....need to look better and I'm stupid at times because I forget shit seriously I really do I happened last week with last week's episode where I thought Enid's mom was a witch but I forgot she was a vampire. Yet yeah I made a post talking about so my head canons aren't off now 9:41
Edit 9:46 pm it just turned that time was 45 but I seriously need to focus on shit and be careful and also just...reblog something it's Jim Cummings birthday I'm just editing back and forth like last week 9:46
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famlawatty6000 · 6 years
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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piatty29033 · 6 years
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing
Back to Podcast
Transcript
John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business
Transcript of How Chat Bots Can Help You Grow Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing
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John Jantsch: Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Andrew Warner. He is probably, most of you know him as the founder of Mixergy, a program that interviews experts to help you grow your business. I think I did a Master Class five years ago or so.
Andrew Warner: Yeah.
John Jantsch: So you’ve been rocking and rolling for a while with this. You’ve also got a new initiative, something you call the Bot Academy. So welcome Andrew.
Andrew Warner: Thanks. You know it’s so good to actually get to see you. I listen to your podcasts, and I know it’s all audio. But I’m glad that you’re doing video. I’ve got a screenshot here that I’m saving, just to remember how you’re doing this.
John Jantsch: All right, cool. Well, you and I bumped into each other at a conference, gosh, a year ago or so, but it was like two ships passing in the night. I didn’t get to hear you. I don’t think I know if you were around when I spoke, but yeah it’s actually great. This isn’t in person, but this is closer, right?
Andrew Warner: Yep.
John Jantsch: So we’ve been hearing a lot about bots obviously. It’s probably the hottest topic right now. A lot of small business owners come to me and say, ‘Okay, is this new thing, something I need to pay attention to?’. So give me kind of the practical lowdown. Why should a small business owner, or really anyone pay attention to what maybe, seems like a fad, this bot thing?
Andrew Warner: You know I wasn’t paying attention to it much for a long time, but what I did notice was that my email open rates were not increasing, and so I’m the kind of guy who wants to take action on stuff, so I hired a great copywriter, and she did fantastic work. I’m so proud of the work that she and I did together. The open rates increased a little bit, and the click rates increased a little bit, but it was not like revolutionary, and I want big.
So I said all right. There is a company that will actually help increase your funnels. So I flew myself, my copywriter, we spent two days at the offices of this company, working through our funnel, the whole process from beginning to end. And I came back super proud, still I am of the work we did. And it increased the open rates a little bit, the click rates a little bit. And I thought there is something wrong with me maybe, because everyone else is you know helping me, and they are all experts.
And then this company that I invested in, the founder sent me a research from MailChimp that said, here across the board, all of our open and click rates. I saw this amazing, and I went through and I realized, oh it’s super hard to get over 20% open rate. It’s super hard across industries to get over 3% click rates. That means 97%, 97 out of a 100 people are not clicking the emails that we’re sending out. It’s not just me, it’s across the board. And I realize, oh I am actually doing better than average. This is just the medium of email. It’s not getting much more open rates, it’s actually, I wouldn’t say dying, it’s just not growing.
And I realize, oh look at how I communicate with my team, we use chat apps like Facebook Messenger, Skype, Slack, text to communicate with each other. My wife and I, we just told each other I love you before I got on with you, and I said I can’t talk for a little bit. But I did it by iMessage. We’re using iMessage and other chat apps to communicate with the people we work and love with, and no, when it comes to selling we use just email. And I thought there’s got to be something better. So I’m not using chat bots to anything kind of miraculous or 26th century. I am just saying if people are communicating via chat, how can my business reach in that way.
John Jantsch: And that’s probably the theme that has come forward in the last year to this idea of meeting people where they are, personalizing, giving people better experiences. As you said, if that’s the experience they want to have, then we probably better pay attention. So before we go much farther, I suppose for some people we need to kind of give what you’re broad stroke view or definition is of a chat bot.
Andrew Warner: Sure. You know what the best way for them to do it is to actually see what I’ve made in intro to one that they could see if they go to botacademy.com/ducttapemarketing. What if I should get ducktapemarketing? Do you get a lot of people say duck, like quack quack?
John Jantsch: Well I do, and so of course I earn the URL for that.
Andrew Warner: Okay, I’ve got to do botacademy.com/ducktapemarketing and ducttapemarketing. Because here’s what happens when they go there. They’re gonna see my face, hopefully I’ll even get a picture of you, and a button that says ‘hey, if you want to find out more, press this button’. They press the button, and then their phone will vibrate, and they’ll get an alert that says, ‘hey, do you mind if I use this to tell you about my work’. They tap that and they get the first tip where I show them how chat bots can help them. Then next they come back with the next message and the next message.
So similar to email marketing, except you might notice one thing’s missing, there’s no form. If somebody comes to my site and subscribes to my email newsletter, they have to fill out a form. Tell me their name, tell me their email address. Lot of room for typos, lot of room for people to give fake names, or bad email addresses. Right, there’s none of that. They come to your site, they’re being offered something, they press a single button, and then they subscribe.
John Jantsch: Yeah. And I think of course with the [ubicerousness 00:05:15] of Facebook Messenger, you know as a chat bot, I think that’s the other thing too. People are already subscribed, billions of people are already subscribed.
Andrew Warner: 1.3 billion people on Facebook Messenger, not just once downloaded the app and ignored it every single month. And if they happen to be people who don’t have Messenger on their phone or don’t have new smartphones, next time they go to their desktop computer, they go to Facebook.com, my message will show in the bottom right.
John Jantsch: And I’m certainly seeing the increasing numbers of people that are choosing that as a medium just to communicate with me. They wanna ask a question, they wanna recommend somebody. You know I am getting numerous Facebook messages. So I think as that behavior increases, then it’ll just be normal to be in there.
Andrew Warner: And John, I’ll acknowledge this. Sometimes it’s frustrating, right? I might reach you via text message on a Saturday night, and then a friend of yours on Facebook Messenger, and then somebody else might really love telegram. I’ve got a friend who uses telegram with me. To be honest, it is a little frustrating that we have messages coming up, I saw everywhere.
John Jantsch: Yeah. Like don’t forget Linkedin there. I mean every flight that we’re on, its sending us messages now.
Andrew Warner: And so the issue is, that is the way of the future. The people do prefer chat, and the solution for that is coming in that our inbox used to be gmail.com or Outlook or our company inbox. What I am finding more and more is, iPhone is becoming, their messenger section is becoming that universal inbox and people are deciding what do I want in there, and what don’t I. With email I could email you. If I give your email address to a friend of mine, he could email you tomorrow with a request. If I give your Facebook Messenger URL to a friend of mine, he is never gonna bother you, no business can bother you there. I can’t message anyone unless they explicitly ask me to subscribe. So there’s frustration, but there is also a lot of user, end user controls there.
John Jantsch: And I think this is true of email of course. We all just got burned up on getting emails. But again it all was, you know you were useful, you were helpful, you said stuff I wanted to read. I mean that’s how you got your emails opened, and I think its gonna be true of the bots too. Right if you just start spamming people even If they give you permission, you’re not gonna be working out.
Andrew Warner: See you can’t. So here’s the beauty of this.
John Jantsch: Well no. I don’t mean spamming in the same way, but if the stuff you keep sending, even if they’re giving permission, if not useful, they’re just going to say, ‘I don’t want you anymore’.
Andrew Warner: You know John, I’ll say two things about that. How long have you been podcasting?
John Jantsch: Since 2005.
Andrew Warner: Wow. So you even beat me to podcasting. I started in 2008. So you eventually build up a reputation, and what you find is, there are these PR people who start soliciting you. You get on their list. And most of them don’t look at your site, they just fire off the same thing to everyone. And there’s nothing blocking them from doing it. With Facebook Messenger, with chat apps in general, there is no way for me to message anyone unless they come to that page and hit the button. And ones they do, it’s all in the user’s control. They could always swipe up to delete me, swipe up to report me and then you know you’re gone.
So I could see why many consumers, and many businesses are saying we prefer this to email.
John Jantsch: Ya. So let’s talk about a couple of business use cases. You can think of, it doesn’t just have to be only to get clients. I think the best use of a lot of these technologies is to serve our existing clients. So think about if you want to share a couple of instance or use cases of how you are seeing some businesses do things.
Andrew Warner: You know what, I will give an example of how a company that everything who has listened to this knows could use it to crystallize it. So anyone who could to Duct Tape Marketing for the first time will see in the bottom right, a little slide in that you’re using now that says, ‘grab the seven steps to marketing success guide’. They get to enter their email address, and then you send them the guide. Immediately you send them the guide and then you get to keep teaching them about marketing techniques that you’ve learnt that work for them, right.
Well the same thing could happen with chat Bots, which you could do if say, if you want the seven steps to marketing success, press this button. No need to enter an email address, just press the button. As soon as they press the button, the chat pod says ‘here’s the guide I promised you’. And here’s the technique that’s working for our students. They also will then say, ‘can I email you this guide too, so you can save it for later?’. If they want it, all they have to do is to press again, one button. They don’t have to type in their email address because Facebook Messenger knows your email address. All they have to do is press a button and then it goes into their inbox. And now our students can reach people in two different ways – email and chat.
So we’re finding people do that really really effectively. And again I incorporated that into the chat pod I created as a demo for your audience.
John Jantsch: Well thank you. So now I also encounter a lot of companies when I buy something. They’re giving me an option if I want tracking, if I want to know when the order is gonna be ready. There’s all of this communication that we maybe used to send through email can come through chat as well. So as a customer service to us, I think its gonna be a huge adoption, isn’t it?
Andrew Warner: So, I’ll give you a couple of basics, and then I’ll want to give one that’s mind blowing. A couple of basics are – yeah, you can send receipts through your Facebook Messenger, PayPal now will do that and Shopify stores will do that. Yes, you can do customer service. A lot of people are there on Facebook anyway, so they send a message to the business on Facebook. That’s basic, that can be handled. And in addition to having humans respond to it, you could also have a chat pod respond to some of the basic questions like, ‘what are your [00:10:37], what’s your refund policy’, an automated respond can do that. All right.
Let me give you the mind blowing stuff John. I was on a site called Pure Cycles, looking at a bike. So I am a cyclist. I saw one. I added it to my shopping cart, and then my light took off to go to San Diego. I think you and I met each other at San Diego at drinks or something there. By the time I landed, I didn’t buy it, I just put it in my shopping cart and forgot about it, which we often do. When I landed, my phone vibrated and said, ‘hey, you forgot something’. I tapped the alert. It was a message via Facebook Messenger from Pure Cycles. A picture of the bike that I had put in my shopping cart and said, ‘do you want to complete your order of this? Do you want me to remind you about it later, or do you want me to never bother you with that again?’.
That is something you can never do with email. I never entered my email address. All they did was put in an extra check box underneath the ‘add to cart’ button, and soon as I added to cart, that checkbox gave them permission to also follow up with me on Facebook Messenger. Super powerful stuff. We’re seeing, I think it is 1 out of 10 people buy when you use that.
John Jantsch: That would have otherwise abandoned.
Andrew Warner: 1 out of 10 people who put something in their shopping cart, and walk away, just abandon it, will come back and buy because of that.
John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business, all you had to do was the stuff you love. The reason you started the businesses, it’s not all that administrative stuff like payroll and benefits. That stuff’s hard. Especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those bug, corporate companies. Now it’s felt like little tiny fish. But now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto, and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern, small businesses.
You know we have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits and great service to take of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners, an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you earn your first payroll. Just go to gusto.com/tape.
So we all don’t pay much attention to email. I’m with you. It’s still an effective channel but is become less effective. Robots take that course, I mean again I am not saying it’ll be today or tomorrow, but Robots eventually take that course when everybody is doing it.
Andrew Warner: I think the different is, the power is completely in the user’s hands. I’ve had people say to me, ‘Andrew, I have this huge group of over a 100,000 people on Facebook, can I add all of them to my Bot, and have my Botnet? No, you can’t. Can I have these customers? Can I add all?. No, you can’t. They have to explicitly ask to subscribe, and at any time they don’t even have to ask you to unsubscribe. The power of unsubscribe is in their hands.
And the difference is, my assistant loves to use Expedia. Every time I want to book a flight, she uses Expedia. Problem with Expedia is, they immediately will subscribe me in every newsletter, and she must not look at all the check boxes that are there. And so I get a ton of email from them. I always will go through and personally unsubscribe, hit that button and unsubscribe. And often what I get from them is, it’ll take up to 10 days to unsubscribe. I think, what are you guys doing up to 10 days? Are you taking a punch card and putting it into a computer? Do you have to, what is this? And so, the difference here is it’s in their hands, the unsubscribe process is their way.
How many times have you hit a link to unsubscribe, and you think you unsubscribe, then you look at one of the tabs that was open in the background on your computer, and you realize it says ‘to complete the unsubscribe, enter the email address you signed up with’, and go ‘I forgot. I don’t even know the email address we have on file. And it doesn’t happen with chat.
John Jantsch: Yeah.
Andrew Warner: But I wouldn’t tell people John to give up on email. We even created code, we give to our students that allows them to say, ‘Look, you have a client who uses email and they love it. Just add this little bit of code, and then give permission to get chat messages to the user and email. It doesn’t have to be an either or, it could be an and.
John Jantsch: Yeah. What I think is it’s like a lot of things. Actually I suspect and maybe I’ll ask you this as a question. I suspect there are people that are actually building their email list more effectively using chat Bots, just to describe. And making the channel itself a better channel again because they’re using it in smarter ways.
Andrew Warner: Yes. And I’ll make sure that the chapter I create as a demo here will have that. Because what you’re gonna see is, you don’t have to type in your email address. One of the problems with typing in on a phone is, tons of typos. Well-intentioned people like me, I always for some reason, I wonder if this is you or other people do too, I don’t type in ‘.com’ for Dotcom, I type in ‘.ckm’. I don’t know why. I guess the K and the O are close, but so is the L and the O.
John Jantsch: So I give you a tip. You know in your iPhone you can create shortcuts.
Andrew Warner: I do.
John Jantsch: Okay.
Andrew Warner: I never type my email address. It’s email.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mine is like depending on the email address. Yeah. And still for some reason I have to type it in. I wonder why I do that.
John Jantsch: I don’t know. Sometimes they don’t work. Sometimes the fields in the form don’t work. So I want to ask you two things about this technology that I think a lot of people run into. A lot of people are using AI, if it is really that. In some of these Bots, where there are kind of pre-programmed things, and we’ve all experienced, I’ve experienced a couple of really good ones, I’ve experienced some that just become like a circle of hell.
You know it’s like that, whatever I ask, I might get a stupid answer, and then they say, ‘great, are you happy now?’. No, I’m not happy. It didn’t give my question an answer. So you know is that just laziness? Is that bad technology? And I mean, is that gonna get better?
Andrew Warner: I see that it will. I invested in a company that’s working on that, and doing a phenomenal job. It’s called Assist. They work with companies like 800 Flowers. The stuff is going to get better. It’s just not there yet. And so I would say to anyone who is listening to you, you know what, don’t do it yet. Don’t try to have your Bot be super smart. Just think of it as another way of reaching people. They prefer to get messages on chat instead of email. And I’ve got stats that show it, and reach in a chat instead of email, and let the intelligence get added in as it earns the right to get added into the experience. I’ve seen some of these futuristic things. They are amazing, where you can actually say to a chat pod, ‘my wife is having a birthday next week’. The chat pod will say what is your wife like, ask you general questions about her, and then suggest Grey flowers.
We’re not exactly there yet. In a world where that Bot will not break. But it’s coming.
John Jantsch: So let me ask you, one hard question before you can tell me about the Bot Academy a little more. A lot of people realize that Facebook paused the chat bot feature for a period of time, and I think that that kind of gave some other people reason to pause. Do you want to talk about why that was, what the impact to that is, should we be nervous about that?
Andrew Warner: I actually was happy that they paused, allowing new people to create chat bods. What I saw was people getting away with so much. This is a really powerful medium. Anything I send out is going to get, just about over 40% open rates pretty easily. So what I saw was people were creating these deal bots, where they were getting someone to subscribe, and then they were sending out nothing but marketing messages under the guise of deals. And it clearly goes against Facebook’s Terms of Service. They don’t want to pollute the environment by creating nothing but spam, and people didn’t got away. And I was sitting on the sidelines go, ‘Am I a sucker for not doing that?’.
John Jantsch: Right.
Andrew Warner: And then Facebook shut it down and said ‘let’s look into it’. There was a therapist bot, which said, ‘no human being could ever see what you’re saying to the therapist bot’. And I wrote to the founder. I said, ‘are you out of your mind? Of course a human being can. Stop saying that’. And so Facebook started cracking down on this stuff.
So having said that, I think that they were right to do it. But I will also completely acknowledge this platform risk. If you have nothing but Facebook as your way of connecting with people, there’s a big risk. Which is why you’ll see my bot, one of the first things it asks is, ‘what’s your email address?’. In the near future, we’ll be able to create the same type of chat pod, and we already do, on different platforms on your website, that has nothing to do with Facebook. I saw bots on Alexa. I don’t think they’re there yet, but we’re going to see it be superstrong. I think in business you’re gonna see it go to slack. I’ve seen some on LinkedIn. I think we’re going to start to see it on lots of other platforms. We should diversify. But you got to start somewhere, and this is 1.3 billion people who are checking it every month. I’ve got to be where they are.
John Jantsch: Probably the most advanced platform with those point.
Andrew Warner: So I’m talking a lot here John, right. I’m like hub hub hub hub hub. There’s so much I want to cover.
John Jantsch: No, no. It’s awesome.
Andrew Warner: I know your podcast will show for like 2-3 hours marathon.
John Jantsch: We’re gonna run out of time, so we better queue up what the Bot Academy is? Why you started it? Why people are to check it out?
Andrew Warner: The reason I started is, I am an angel investor. I made an angel investment in a couple of chat pod companies, and I wanted the founders, I said to them ‘look here’s where I think chat pod’s going’. In the future it’ll be as intelligent as you’re showing me, in the present give us a way of connecting with our customers’. And..
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