#once again I wrote up such a huge post about my s5 thoughts but It got eaten by tumblr

[archive2394934]

Wait, how do you think the battle is gonna happen...?

Ok so, thing is. Vecna has only two weaknesses: Fire/heat. And compassion/positive emotions. (For lack of a better way to describe)  The fire/heat thing was obvious and already explored in previous seasons but we established throughout S4 that positive feelings/thoughts are very potent in weakening/disrupting "Vecna's curse" as well. That's what the music was all about.

I always think its funny that people in this fandom think coming at Vecna with sadness and hate and anger is going to Do Something and that he wont just eat that and spit it back in their faces because thats literally his thing. You cannot out-rage and out-hate the hate fueled rage-monster. No one wields sadness, hate and anger with more horrifying proficiency than Vecna. We've literally seen canonly that the only times in which Eleven has been able to get the upper hand on Vecna is when she is channeling positivity and love. The Mileleven antis are gonna hate this but Mike and Els scene in the piggy back was important because - no matter what you feel about them as a romantic couple - Mike DID do something GOOD with his lil speech to her. If Mike didn't start talking his ass off and helping Eleven remember all the Good Times, the happy memories and things and people she holds dear in her heart Eleven never would have got the strength to come back at Vecna and Max would have been dead-dead. Anyway, the thing about Will? Will is the cleric. In DnD clerics are healers and spellcasters - they're described to be in connection with a "higher power" and their trade mark is basically summoning fireballs.

This is not to say I think Will literally has some kind of literal pyrokinetic powers. But then again I'm not gonna rule that out completely, we've got a lot to see and cover yet. Anyway, Wills "powers" that we do know of right at the moment are in the fact he shares a whole psychic metaphysical connection with Henry presumably through the "higher force" they're both linked into.

Unlike Henry though Will has not been twisted and wholly transformed into something vengeful and cruel by his pain and suffering. Will has had love, support, people to help him and as a result Will is a supremely compassionate individual.

And like I MIGHT be being insane here but Will could very well be the first and only person to actually acknowledge Henry's pain, genuinely and to perhaps actually offer him a genuine sense of empathy that no one else ever has (Something that we saw Eleven try to do in the piggy back episode but failed.) and perhaps that's going to be the thing that makes all the difference when facing Vecna. Because we did see in the piggy back episode that Henry wasn't necessarily beyond reach, its just Eleven ultimately couldn't get through. But the fact he had such a reaction to hearing Brenner was dead, stopped, listened, and started conversing with her in a VERY human way that we had not seen from Vecna before that, imo it goes to show hes probably not entirely beyond reason. Some other “unrelated” canon moments I think could back this are: How fast Billy's "corruption" turned around just by him being able to remember his mother, who he loved. A brief moment of compassion rocked Billy's shit in a good way. How, Dart, a literal Demogorgon that was shown love by Dustin was able to turn its back on the ""hive mind"" because of this.

Other fun things to consider here are: Essentially Clerics aren't born they're made. Whether they choose to become a cleric themselves or they're CHOSEN by a "deity". We know Will is the latter. Interesting thing here is Vecna, via DnD lore, is also considered a deity himself. He's a supremely powerful demi-god. And I presume we're all aware of the theory that Vecna chose Will personally back in S1? But this begs the question why? Why did Vecna choose Will and essentially "create" someone who could maybe “defeat” him? Is this some kind of cry for help? What does this mean?  We know he didn't go after Will to kill him because if that were the case there was no reason for all that elaborate bullshit. Homie could have just snapped the kid in two across dimensions. (( I personally am not 100% sure if I believe the theory that Vecna chose Will personally and that the S1 Demogorgon was just a poxy body for Vecna. I’m not ruling it out at all, because it could add up, and I do think due to the existance of the “hive mind” Vecna does kind of have an “influence” (even if indirect)  everywhere, but I think it might have been more a ‘twist of fate’ type thing. Currently I feel more like the Demogorgon just happened to get through the gate and it proceeded to promptly do Demogorgon things (We have a hint these things are parasitic in a sense that it seems they use living bodies as incubators for their offspring) and Will ended up connected to the upside drown through “the vine” which linked him to the MF and then in turned linked him to Henry. (Perhaps without Vecna himself being fully aware?)  My main point of reasoning here is I think there is something interesting in the flash backs we see in the piggy back episode when Henry explains his “transformation” to El and his “plan” and El has that moment of revelation that Vecna was always connected to things. There is no actual flashback of anything that happened to Will. To El, yes, but not to Will.  It seems to suggest Vecna’s attempts to break though and make “doors” are different to the “doors” El “accidently” created that showed the Demogorgon and the MF trying to get through in S1 and 2. For whatever reason season 1 and 2 are shown separately to season 3.  El says “It was you. Always you”  Vecna nods and says “All I needed was someone to open the door. And you did that for me. Without even realizing it. Didn’t you?”  We’re then shown a few flash backs of scenes in season 1. El touching the Demogorgon and the initial accidental opening of the gate in the lab that allowed the Demogorgon to get through and start Demogorgoning.   Then Vecna says “And when you did realize, you chose to resist.”  We’re then shown El dematerializing the Demogorgon in season 1 and closing the MF out in season 2.  Vecna then says “So I sought a means to open my own doors. I sought... Your power.”  This is when we’re shown scenes of season 3, dealing with Billy and the Spider Monster and Vecna says “So, don’t you see? Once again, you have freed me.” And again this might mean nothing and I’m being nuts but I find it interesting how the flash back scenes are separated and the initial attacks from the Upside-Down with the Demogorgon and the MF are separated from the attacks Vecna admits were his attacks to open “his own” doors. I’m coupling this with the fact theres very little suggestion of Vecna in S1 and 2 (the fans have made the theories and I’m not saying they're not fully believable but In s3 there is almost explicit suggestions of Vecna being there in some way when you look back after watching s4 where as the two other seasons his presence is much more... subdued at best)  So why did Vecna only start taking an active role in s3 and more obviously in 4? There is a heavy suggestion Vecna was somehow incapacitated during S1 and 2 and even though his “influence” was there he wasn't there consciously/purposely.  Which wouldn’t be hard to believe given we’ve seen our psychics fall into comas after exhausting their powers. We’ve even seen them loose their powers. And Vecna did explicitly say he needed El’s powers. Why did he need El’s powers when he usually has more than enough of his own? SO In the VR game, we’re shown Henry/Vecna Doing A Lot Of Shit since its all from his POV. I think they described it as “taming” the Upside Down. So this suggests that in doing all that, Vecna wiped himself out and couldn’t personally participate in the initial attempts to break into Hawkins. (This also might be the period in which Henry was fully “transformed” into Vecna bc we know he wasn’t all the way there when we first saw him make contact with the MF’s physical body) He was slowly building strength during S1 and 2 when El/the kids were dealing with the Demogorgon and the MF/Demo dogs.  Which could be evidence to the idea that even though these creatures are all connected to a “hive mind” and can be seen as “one” they can also act independently of each other (I think we’ve almost seen this proven with the demo creatures on occasion. They do be just doing their thing until they’re specifically “called” on) Or at least even though Vecna and the MF seem to be “one”, (pun maybe intended) they can act independently of each other, since we also saw very little of the “MF” in season 4 and instead it was all Vecna. I mean not to say they don't have constant influence over each other but yeah, they don’t seem to have to fully be present in each others shit))  We also have a suggestion that Vecna has precognition. Eg: he can apparently see the future or some version of it. This is what is suggested in the scene with Nancy. He literally tells her this: "Now that you've seen where I've been, I would very much like to show you where I am going." We're also not sure why he chose Nancy in particular to show this “vision” to but I dont believe these things were done without reason on his behalf. I dont even think that Nancy, Steve and Robin got the upper hand on him by accident. I think he let them have that win on purpose. Heres another question though: dealing with the MF. Did the mindflayer “poison” Henry? Or did Henry perhaps “accidently” poison the mindflayer? This is not gonna sound very Vecna sympathizer of me but its possible the mindflayer was more neutral until Henry linked with it and his own anger and sadness got sucked into it.

This being said this doesn't entirely explain all the little suggestions that the MF reached out to Henry first and things occurred the more the opposite way around. (Not to say Henry wasn’t already angry and sad - but that just seemed to be what made him the perfect “target”. Also, in the original script of the scene for Henry’s “fall” into the upside down it seems more explicit that he was weirdly targeted by the entire environment in a way we have never really seen before. He was particularly targeted by tentacles that SOMETHING had to be controlling and that something WAS NOT him. This could prove Vecna didn’t “choose” Will personally and something else did bc Will is the only other person the environment of the Upside Down could be described as acting kinda weird toward )  SO Yeah did The MF choose Will or did Vecna choose Will? Its currently unclear WHY exactly in canon that Vecna/The MF would "choose" Will but the thing is we know Will has been chosen and he is connected to them/him. People think it was just to be used as a spy but no, I think its bigger than that. We know Will has pretty much always been likened to a "cure" while Henry/Vecna is likened to a "curse" and we've also seen the MF at least work as a type of poison/infection/virus in a very PHYSCIAL way (s2 and then s3, which seemed to be a team effort by Vecna and the MF together) while "Vecna's curse" has similar connotations in a metaphorical/emotional way.

When I personally draw inspo for Will and Henry I draw it from places like Silent Hill, with Alessa and Heather. And also places like the Ring with Samara/Sadako to a slightly lesser extent.

What they all have in common and relation to Henry/Vecna/Will is they were powerful psychics who had bad mothers, were horrifically abused and their 'deaths' resulted in their transformation to supernatural forces of rage and vengeance. This being said, due to the fact that none of them were inherently evil, they all have a soul that is split and/or connected to a "good" half- and there is a concept of being "reborn" and essentially living the 'good life' they were denied through this "good half." Its not uncommon with this trope (Not sure what its called as a trope but I know it exists in a couple different stories) for the 'good half' and the 'bad half' to come in conflict but they usually they end up "merging" somehow - whether this is like literal/physical or is completed with the "death"/neutralization of the "bad" half. And we know we have had this whole “concept” of “becoming whole” throughout the show. We also have the color theories with how Hawkins, the upside down and Vecna’s dimension are presented by primary colors of “Blue” “Yellow” and “Red” which typically stand for “Mind” “Emotion” and “Body”. We know that these are  suppose to be in interdependence and harmony but in ST they’re kind of shown as “separated.” Maybe in some way these dimensions are meant to come together? 

But that's all really just theory and in no way am I saying that's exactly whats gonna happen and I’m totally rambling kind of off tangent but I think at least the aesthetic references are there. What I do think is Will is going to have an impact on Vecna in an "emotional" sense, so to speak. And thats the "key" to "winning" not so much the the idea of winning in a "physical" battle, if a physical battle is actually going to happen at all, and part of me is a little doubtful because what do we really think Will is gonna physically do against Vecna? Probably not that much, being realistic. He might be able to molotov him someway for some reason like the teens did sure but I don't think the focus is gonna be a big physical fight between them, I dont think thats gonna be the “focus” or whatever. 

#henry creel #vecna #001 #will byers #william byers #stranger things #once again I wrote up such a huge post about my s5 thoughts but It got eaten by tumblr #this touches on a few of things I wrote about tho so we're gonna pretend this is it #also i think its great that while I was writing this my playlist decided “The one” and “The gift” from the call of duty zombies sound track #was the correct musical/lyrical vibes for the post and you know what? It was very right #ALSO I should really post my whole crazy headcanons about Henry/Will/Zodiac signs/Elemental opposites etc #bc im really crazy u have no idea

[aprillikesthings]

GOOD MORNING (afternoon actually) time for more she-ra

(I actually started this episode last night lol but wasn't able to finish it)

s5 ep3 corridors

oh this episodes starts with the intro instead of an open. okay.

nnnoooooo

Not only do Catra's ears do a little twitch but it makes a really adorable noise????

Also I just looked at my fic to make sure I mention that Catra's eyes glow a little and got distracted rereading my own porn lolol but yes I did already edit that into a scene

man I feel sad for both of them here. they're both just little kids--with like, zero good role models :(

poor babies

anyway, nice segue

oh those lights are explosions. oh. :(

would you like some heavy-handed but appropriate symbolism

but also the clones are basically stalking her every move, and she runs into the clone that's actually Hordak

I wanted to get a screenshot of her smoothing down her hair and accidentally got whatever this is lol

but yeah Hordak is like "I don't know what you're talking about. anyway go away."

LOL

The ship shuts down and stops in space which is really funny because THAT'S NOT HOW SPACE WORKS unless you're fighting the gravity of a nearby planet or star or something you should maintain your speed forever

but whatever, fantasy universe, plot, etc.

awwwww Catra and Glimmer are talking again. Their banter is so easy to read as flirtatious, too.

It is a struggle not to screenshot every single facial expression they make during this scene.

...Also, I should read my friend's Glitra fics.

THEY'RE SO CUTE

Glimmer mentions specifically raiding the kitchen for cake enough times that I'm 99% sure I subconsciously remembered it when I wrote that short fic that includes it considering I wrote/posted it before I got to any of the mentions of it in my re-watch.

She even mentions eating it with her hands and here I thought it might be weird that I put it in the story lolol

I forgot entire huge portions of plot but remembered Glimmer likes to sneak into the kitchen to eat cake with her hands.

(they're talking about sleepovers)

UGH THIS SCENE IS SO GOOD also the look on Catra's face while she talks about Adora during happier times 🥺

SHIT Daci came upstairs okay I gotta finish this tomorrow

it is now tomorrow :D

don't mind me gonna rewatch this whole scene because it's so painfully sweet

OH ALSO one of the things that's good to note for myself later (re: character stuff) is that Catra is still a little shit here. She opens the conversation by taunting Glimmer about her failed attempts at escape, and when Glimmer pushes back she initially starts to leave.

So yeah. She's always still a bit of a brat.

ALSO I want to note that part of the reason they're willing to tolerate each other at all is that, at this point in the plot, they've both done Pretty Bad Shit. Whether it's the same amount of bad shit is a matter of debate, but Glimmer feels horribly guilty for trying to use the Heart of Etheria and allowing Horde Prime to find them--she's even the reason Catra is on the ship. So they're sort of equals at this point. I don't think Glimmer would be friendly to Catra to quite the same extent if she didn't have that hanging over her. I could be wrong though.

But also yeah they're still very similar people.

look at how soft she is ;_;

but yeah Glimmer's talking here, and oof, look at Catra

do you also have some regrets bb

;_;

and then she gets up and walks off without a word to Glimmer

lol the claws on the wall, absent-mindedly. I know why she's doing that--the urge to leave a mark, however minor--"I was here"--to be even the tiniest thorn in the side of an enemy that unfathomably powerful.

another allusion to Christianity

they went for (synthesized) Gregorian chanting here instead of the organ

oh no it's that fucked-up baptism thing D:

(true story: a lot of churches are willing to baptize you more than once, especially if they're weirdoes and don't think other churches' baptisms count. The Episcopal Church, like most mainline protestant denominations, won't re-baptize you--if your previous baptism was done with the Trinitarian formula ("Father, Son, and Holy Spirit") it counts. This actually gets tricky if you were baptized as a Mormon, because they do use the Trinitarian formula, but they mean entirely different things by it! In some parts of the country you'll get rebaptized, in others you won't. Sometimes they'll do what's called a conditional baptism, where they literally say "If you are not baptized, [name], I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Like. They insert a "just in case" clause. They also do this for people who just do not know if they were baptized--like if you can't ask your parents whether you were baptized as a baby because they're dead/no-contact. Anyway I was seven when I got baptized, so I remember it, which is nice; but I did text my mom about it when I was about to get confirmed and it turned out she'd kept my baptismal certificate all these years?!)

I don't know if they were going for The Meme this time--I don't think so? it's just a good way to frame this scene? --but I cannot unsee it

oof it must hurt to admit that, but also, it must be a bit of a relief to actually GENUINELY NOT KNOW and be unable to give away anything

"And yet you seek to protect her" dude has her number that's a fact

oh god he tells her to get info from Glimmer D:

"If I could tell you where Adora is I would! She's my enemy! I want her gone!" oh baby you're so convinced

at this point in the plot I'm not entirely sure he's wrong, but of course he misunderstands why it's a bad thing and the solution to it

(I get that a sprinkle of water on your head is a totally valid baptism but also I think more mainline churches should have full-immersion options bc I just think it makes sense from a symbolism standpoint. I know some mainline churches will allow you to do it if you're an adult getting baptized. Depends on the church/clergy.)

ANYWAY real glad that baptismal fonts/pools aren't electrified

And yes bringing Catra there was a threat

And Catra brings Glimmer cake

aww

hm

she could have stood looming over Glimmer here. Instead she's literally on her knees and holding Glimmer's other hand. She doesn't want to intimidate Glimmer into giving her information. She wants Glimmer to kNOW.

Glimmer drops the cake.

I'm gonna chew my fingers off aaaaugh

I'VE HIT THE IMAGE LIMIT i knew I would and I'm only halfway through the episode hold on

#april rewatches spop #corridors

[dolokhoded]

hii this is the-reynolds-pamphlet (this is my main and i cant get rid of it LMAO im not active on here)

re what you said about the s4 pacing. LITERALLY i wrote that whole other post as an answer to another ask i got about how the chosen's storyline really sucks in some aspects and i said the pacing is going to be incredibly off for season 4

okay first of all. there's a huge timeline issue in season 3 concerning the holidays and how much time passes since season 1, i was gonna make a whole other post about all the timeline inconsistencies but i didnt get around to doing it (i probably should). but like at this point it has been one year minimum since s1, realistically it should be three years if the end of season 4 is palm sunday. then like ??? theyre gonna spend the entirety of s5 on ONE week? and for fucking what. i thought they wanted a "bingeable" proper show with pacing and everything, why would they zero in on that

but anyways about ramah. first of all im 99% sure it's because her actress has schedule conflicts and likely wants to drop out of the show (that's why she mysteriously left to go talk to her dad in season 3). but also it's kind of obvious that they're using her death as character development for thomas for the rest of the series (which is gonna be like 2 weeks maximum over 3 seasons anyway. unless they continue onto acts but that poses another huge pacing problem.) which is pissing me off like?? i had the same reaction when tamar was acting weird for like one (1) episode and then she told mary everything and just left. why would you not give them proper character development established over a long period of time and just confine it to singular episodes like that. im pretty sure tamar's backstory won't be brought up again lmao. also ramah doesn't really have much of a personality (which sucks because i got the impression she was a bit of a rich daddy's girl and there was potential for character exploration) and her character hasn't even been that established so like... partially it's easy to kill her but on the other hand, it isn't as emotional especially bc she wasn't even here the last season.

also remember how in the other post i was like why are they literally giving consistent character arcs and emotional plot for matthew, mary, simon & eden, and james & john but theyre basically forgetting everybody else exists. yeah like james just fucking launches himself at someone and gets knocked out in season 4 which is great but how long are they going to be just keep throwing new arcs for the main cast and keep ignoring thaddeus' existence. btw i watched a clip of That Scene in s4 (i didnt realize what it was when i was watching it lmao) with thaddeus and james and they're basically asking jesus why he's talking about dying. so thaddeus stays personalityless while big james is over there getting concussions #maincharacter. im not saying that scene w/jesus isnt necessary but im saying its thad's big scene and it is once again about Not thaddeus

this entire thing is incredibly bizarre to me because they COULDVE made an actual show with fleshed out characters and everything ??? they confined themselves to 8 1-hour long episodes per season, which of course restricts how much storytelling they can do while keeping in all the major gospel events they need to put in. but like first of all they couldve Not Done that. i think their audience wouldve gone insane for more episodes. second of all, if they WERENT gonna carry on character arcs and give everyone a fleshed out character then why did they introduce them as such??? i mean it was probably because they wanted to spark interest and then just forget about it but that kind of sucks. why did they do this lmao they literally had the opportunity to make it better

ok v rushed reply cause i have to go to the library the bus is coming in 15 minutes which means all the law students are leaving which means empty spaces BUT

you're so right the chosen's timeline is fucked up atp i can't really tell when it's been a day or a week or like. a couple months it's. i dont understand what theyre doing and why theyre doing it like this. cause like. even the characters who do have decent arcs like matthew and simon peter and james and john are not being developed properly cause the timing is so goddamn off. and i Know that in this new season they're gonna try to make john like Rise Above and start to kind of live up to his name as the favorite and have more understanding of jesus' teachings while james doesn't which is very stupid to me cause like. When. i think it was last season that this guy was bragging about getting to plough a field. how are they going to have john transition into one of the most competent disciples just. doesnt make sense.

and ALSO !!!! the reason all of these arcs are being so rushed is because they never get a break because as you mentioned literally nobody else gets any character developement. i wanna see more of thad. and little james. and nathanael while we're at it, and zee, and philip, and mary and tamar's friendship. why are they just throwing shit in there and never expand on it at all, unless you're thaddeus, in which case you don't even get that.

also i have a.,., suspicion, kind of, on where they're going with big james, and i can't be entirely sure, i'm not saying i'm correct, but just in case. Leave Tamar Alone ! i'm begging you ! dallas ! leave tamar alone ! not every single one of your female characters needs a romantic subplot ! i know big james is pretty and you want to give him a love interest so the repressed christian women in your audience keep watching your show, i see him, but for the love of christ actually ! leave tamar alone ! i know that if this happens you're only going to utilize her character for romance LEAVE TAMAR ALONE !!!!

#asks #leave her ALONE I SAY !!!!!!!

[kellyvela]

Has GRRM ever said in any interview or on his blog that he hates Sansa's complete storyline after 4th season? I dont really follow all of his fan/media interactions but from what I can recall he has spoken abt how LF in books wont give sansa to ramsay or how noone had issue when Jeyne was given the Ramsay storyline in books etc. Asking this question to you bcs you rightly point out how ppl misunderstood his interviews/posts ( sansans/targ stans etc) & I cant recall him ever saying he 'hates' sansa's story in the later seasons of the show ( not s5 in particular but even s6 to s8).

Capclave 2013:

A change that has repercussions for season 4 is Marillion’s tongue removal from the first season. Martin said that the change was made (from an anonymous singer being the victim of a de-tonguing) because they wanted Joffrey to maim someone the audience would recognize. He believes this is an issue because of the part the singer plays in Sansa’s storyline, how he affects her interactions with others in the book, and he doesn’t believe another character will be fulfilling that role on Game of Thrones.

—GRRM talks season 4 & beyond - Winter is Coming - October 13, 2013

2014 Fan Reports about Capclave 2013 (*):

In a convention panel this year, George said on the record that he had no idea what they were doing with Sansa or where they’re taking her storyline, which now makes sense perhaps. He was not pleased when he was talking about it, so who knows what’s going to happen with her! Knowing GRRM, that could mean they’re going off the canon reservation, and/or that they’re going to be making a lot of shit up

I have notes I’ll be responding to (thanks!) but enough people commented about Sansa that I thought I’d share that tidbit, since it happened back in September iirc (was the same panel where he criticized the exclusion of Tyrell brothers)

—starkalypse - June 3, 2014

GRRM’s comments at capclave about Sansa (which I was in the third row for, for those asking about legitimacy) were among others during the panel that had a general theme of dissatisfaction with show changes. He was not in good spirits for that con and didn’t really have anything positive to say regarding the show. So take it with a grain of salt; there are deviations away from the books in the episodes he gets writers credit for, so maybe they’re doing something stupid or they really don’t have a gameplan!

—starkalypse - June 4, 2014

(*) These reports were posted in June 2014, during the airing of Game of Thrones Season 4, about Capclave 2013 that happened in October 2013.

Just after the rape episode:

How many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story.

There have been differences between the novels and the television show since the first episode of season one. And for just as long, I have been talking about the butterfly effect. Small changes lead to larger changes lead to huge changes. HBO is more than forty hours into the impossible and demanding task of adapting my lengthy (extremely) and complex (exceedingly) novels, with their layers of plots and subplots, their twists and contradictions and unreliable narrators, viewpoint shifts and ambiguities, and a cast of characters in the hundreds.

There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material, by and large (if you doubt that, talk to the Harry Dresden fans, or readers of the Sookie Stackhouse novels, or the fans of the original WALKING DEAD comic books)… but the longer the show goes on, the bigger the butterflies become. And now we have reached the point where the beat of butterfly wings is stirring up storms, like the one presently engulfing my email.

Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements.

David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can.

And over here I am trying to write the best novels that I can.

And yes, more and more, they differ. Two roads diverging in the dark of the woods, I suppose… but all of us are still intending that at the end we will arrive at the same place.

In the meantime, we hope that the readers and viewers both enjoy the journey. Or journeys, as the case may be. Sometimes butterflies grow into dragons.

—The Show, the Books - Not A Blog - May 18, 2015

Report about the last Game of Thrones Script that GRRM wrote:

No Wedding for Sansa and Ramsay: Without question, one of the most controversial changes the show made in trying to streamline the books was by slotting Sansa into the role of Ramsay’s wife and rape victim in Season 5. In the books, Ramsay marries and assaults Sansa’s best childhood friend, Jeyne Poole—who is being forced to impersonate Arya—instead. (You can actually see Jeyne briefly sitting next to Sansa in the show’s pilot.)

At the time Martin wrote this script, though, substituting Sansa for Jeyne was not yet the plan. Martin has Roose Bolton tell his bastard son: “We have a much better match in mind for you. A match to help House Bolton hold the north. Arya Stark.” It should be noted, however, that in Martin’s script, Sansa isn’t free from menace either. At his own wedding-day breakfast, Joffrey still threatens to rape the older Stark sister—once he’s “gotten Margaery with child.”)

—Game of Thrones: The Secrets of George R.R. Martin’s Final Script - Vanity Fair - December 7, 2018

A month before the Game of Throne S8 Finale:

Sansa’s story, in particular, has really deviated from the books. Ramsay Bolton — that marriage obviously was with a different character. When they start deviating like that, did you initially have any emotional reaction, even though you worked in Hollywood for many years yourself?

GRRM: Well, yeah — of course you have an emotional reaction. I mean, would I prefer they do it exactly the way I did it? Sure. But I’ve been on the other side of it, too. I’ve adapted work by other people, and I didn’t do it exactly the way they did it, so ….

Some of the deviation, of course, is because I’ve been so slow with these books. I really should’ve finished this thing four years ago — and if I had, maybe it would be telling a different story here. It’s two variations of the same story, or a similar story, and you get that whenever anything is adapted. The analogy I’ve often used is, to ask how many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? Do you know the answer to that?

I know it’s different in the book and the movie …

GRRM: Three children in the book, one by each husband. She had one child in the movie. And in real life, of course, Scarlett O’Hara had no children, because she never existed. Margaret Mitchell made her up. The book is there. You can pick it up and read Mitchell’s version of it, or you can see the movie and see David Selznick’s version of it. I think they’re both true to the spirit of the work, and hopefully that’s also true of Game of Thrones on one hand, and A Song of Ice and Fire on the other hand.

—George R.R. Martin on the Stark Sisters and Ending ‘Game of Thrones’ - RollingStone - April 22, 2019

James Hibberd’s Book:

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: Jeyne Poole was included in the pilot—she’s shown giggling next to Sansa—but she’s never seen or referred to again. I actually wrote Jeyne into “The Pointy End,” my first script, when Arya killed the stableboy. I had some stuff with Jeyne running to Sansa being all hysterical and dialogue in the council chamber with Littlefinger saying, “Give her to me, I’ll make sure she doesn’t cause any trouble.” That was dropped.

DAVID BENIOFF: Sansa is a character we care about almost more than any other. We really wanted Sansa to play a major part in that season. If we were going to stay absolutely faithful to the book, it was going to be very hard to do that. There was a subplot we loved from the books, but it was a character not involved in the show.

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: I was trying to set up Jeyne for her future role as the false Arya. The real Arya has escaped and is presumed dead. But this girl has been in Littlefinger’s control for years, and he’s been training her. She knows Winterfell, has the proper northern accent, and can pose as Arya. Who the hell knows what a little girl you met two years ago looks like? When you’re a lord visiting Winterfell, are you going to pay attention to the little kids running around? So she can pull off the impersonation. Not having Jeyne, they used Sansa for that. Is that better or worse? You can make your decision there. Oddly, I never got pushback for that in the book because nobody cared about Jeyne Poole that much. They care about Sansa.

—Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Official Untold Story of the Epic Series by James Hibberd - October 6, 2020

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: My Littlefinger would have never turned Sansa over to Ramsay. Never. He’s obsessed with her. Half the time he thinks she’s the daughter he never had—that he wishes he had, if he’d married Catelyn. And half the time he thinks she is Catelyn, and he wants her for himself. He’s not going to give her to somebody who would do bad things to her. That’s going to be very different in the books.

—Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Official Untold Story of the Epic Series by James Hibberd - October 6, 2020

I hope it helps you.

Thanks for your message.

#sansa stark #grrm

[teamfreewill2pointo]

Sam’s Emotional Arc 1/3

I hated the finale immediately, but I’ve spent some time with it and talked to friends who loved it. I can see now what it was about, and I’ve come to appreciate the story they were trying to tell, even if I think it didn’t land right.

I’ve been told that my meta on this has helped other people come to terms with the finale, so I thought I’d compile it in one place from across various discord channels and twitter posts. If you are struggling with the finale, I hope it helps you.

Part of this actually started with a shit post. I was making a joke about Sam being psychic since he was scared of clowns when Dean died by one. I realized that may have been deliberate. I dug into the story more and now I’m convinced it was. Then I came across some excellent meta that fit with the themes I was finding and opened up the series even more for me.

Happiness isn’t in the having, it’s in just being. It’s in just saying it.

Cas said it. Dean accepted it. Sam lived it. First, Sam’s journey. 

Clowns pop up in s15 before the barn scene. In 15.01, which was written by Dabb, Sam is injured by a clown. Castiel is able to save Sam and heal his injury. The clown keeps coming after Sam, with Sam having fight scenes with the clown, while others attack the other ghosts. The clown is kicking the shit out of Sam again, and Castiel saves him once more. Sam is unable to fight off the clown on his own both times.

They run until they are able to escape outside a magical barrier. Sam turns to the clown and says, “shut up”. 

This is literally Sam running from his fears. On top of that, this isn’t just any clown, but the ghost of John Wayne Gacy, from an episode also written by Dabb.

Dean: A serial killer clown. I mean, this is, like, the best/worst thing that’s ever happened to you, you know, ‘cause you love serial killers, but – but you hate clowns.

Sam gets nervous and struggles with the lighter before he’s able to get rid of the clown, for now.

I believe this is a metaphor for hunting in general: it’s both the best of Sam’s life and also the worst. The clowns symbolize his relationship with Dean.

Plucky Pennywhistle's Magical Menagerie was co-written by Dabb (see the pattern?). Sam’s fear of clowns was known since season 2. In season 7, Dabb explored where this fear came from.

On the surface, Sam’s fear is just because he found them creepy, but the episode explains that they actually come from Sam’s fear of being left behind by Dean.

This episode comes directly after an episode where Sam worried that Dean would get himself killed

Sam: Look... Dean, the thing is, tonight... It almost got you killed. Now, I don't care how you deal. I really, really don't. But just don't – don't get killed. Dean: I'll do what I can. Sam: Well, what's that supposed to mean? Dean: It means I'll do what I can. All right? You can shut up about it.

Sam is dealing with Hallucifer at this moment, but Hallucifer doesn’t really scare him. Losing Dean does.

Sam has a conversation with an employee about greatest fears.

Recognize the actress? She came back for s15 in 15.06. I don’t believe this was a coincidence. 15.06 featured Castiel helping a parent find their lost child in a season that features Castiel worried about losing Jack. Through his experience with her, Castiel confronts his fears and doubts and then returns to join in the fight against God. [I’ll touch on Castiel’s journey more in his chapter]

Sam’s greatest fear is losing Dean. There’s a lot in the series about how Sam felt lonely and abandoned for much of his childhood. A whole episode, Just My Imagination, centers around this. Sam hated when Dean went off on hunts without him.

source In The Chitters, Sam tells Dean how his fear of losing his family paralyzed him as child. It’s a story where an older brother dies and the younger brother never recovers from it until he’s able to lay him to rest (sound familiar???)

Sam: You know, whenever you and Dad used to leave me to go hunting, and I-and I wouldn’t hear from y’all for a while, I, um, I was always sure that some vamp or rugaru, or take your pick, I always figured one of them finally got ya. I tried to think what to do, you know, the next step to take. I was just lost. Dean: We came back, though, every time.

You might naturally think, “Wait a minute! Sam left Dean multiple times!” Honestly, this was something I had a huge issue with when watching through the show the first time. I didn’t understand Sam and hated him leaving Dean in s8. I was completely on Dean’s side at first. But, on multiple rewatches and talking to others, I’ve realized that when Sam left Dean, he was running from his fear. In this TV Guide interview, Jared perfectly sums up why Sam left in season 1; he couldn’t stand to see his family die. Dabb wrote Dark Side of the Moon along with a comic that explains why Sam left in detail. While the comic isn’t official canon, it shows Dabb’s thought process. In it, Sam sees his family as running towards a horrible end and can’t handle dealing with that.

Dean: So what are you gonna do? You're just gonna live some normal, apple pie life? Is that it? Sam: No. Not normal. Safe.

There are many more points in the series where we learn about Sam’s fear of Dean dying. This would be 3948573945 pages long if I wrote them all out, so I’m going to focus on the key moments that loop back to this ending, but there’s so much more there.

If you are struggling with this and need more, please let me know and I can do a deeper dive into that subject. We first see Sam’s inability to let Dean go in season 1 when Sam refuses to let Dean die in Faith.

Dean: You're not gonna let me die in peace, are you? Sam: I'm not gonna let you die, period. We're going.

Sam’s whole arc in s3 is him being unable to handle Dean dying. He wants to save Dean, but Dean won’t let himself be saved. This was what Gabriel was trying to teach him in Mystery Spot.

Trickster: This obsession to save Dean? The way you two keep sacrificing yourselves for each other? Nothing good comes out of it. Just blood and pain. Dean's your weakness. And the bad guys know it, too. It's gonna be the death of you, Sam. Sometimes you just gotta let people go.

This is how Ruby gets under Sam’s skin and what gets him to start working with her. Everything Sam did was to save Dean. In s4, Sam’s arc is about him sacrificing himself in order to save Dean. He’s gutted from being unable to save Dean. In 4.12, Sam decides to drink demon blood in order to save Dean

Dean: [says that they will die early] Sam: Maybe we'll be different, Dean. Dean: What kind of Kool-Aid you drinking, man? Sammy, it ends bloody or sad. That's just the life. Sam: What if we could win?Dean: "Win"?Sam: If there was a way we could just...put an end to all of it.

When Sam breaks out of the panic room, he’s suicidal. He’s determined to save Dean with his life as the cost he’s willing to pay. He didn’t think he would survive killing Lilith. He was committing suicide in that moment. The reason why Sam is so willing to sacrifice himself in s5 is because he has low self esteem. He blames himself for everything that goes wrong. In Sam, Interrupted 5.11, also by Dabb, Sam has a breakdown under the weight of his guilt. He hates himself and he feels his rage is out of control. In season 6, we see soulless Sam and, unlike souled Sam, he has no rage. Yes, he’ll kill when necessary, but he’s not angry. It was Sam’s fear driving his rage. He felt out of control of his life and let it lead him down a dark path. In season 7, he sees Dean heading down a dark path and he feels helpless to stop it. He worries about dragging Dean down and tells Dean to let him go. But, at the same time, he’s developing coping techniques. He’s starting to face his fears. 

And then Dean disappears and Sam completely falls apart. Sam didn’t have a healthy relationship with Amelia. They were two broken people clinging to each other. Sam and Dean struggle to reconnect after their time apart. There’s a lot of text addressing the horror of a partner dying and people trying to escape from it.

Mrs Holmes: He could see the end of my days were at hand, and... He had lived centuries all alone, but I don't think he could bear the thought of life without me. That's why he drove off that bridge. You must think I'm a monster.

In Hunteri Heroica written by GUESS WHO!?!? Sam finally acknowledges that he was living in a dream world with Amelia. He was running from his past. We see a flash back with Sam pressing on his scar, which he did to help himself distinguish fantasy from reality.

The episode is about a man refusing to engage in reality and harming those around him. Sam has a big confrontation with him

Sam: Look, it can be nice living in a dream world. It can be great. I know that. And you can hide, and you can pretend... all the crap out there doesn't exist, but you can't do it forever because... eventually, whatever it is you're running from – it'll find you. [CASTIEL appears to be taking Sam’s words to heart.] It'll come along, and it'll punch you in the gut. And then... then you got to wake up, because if you don't, then trying to keep that dream alive will destroy you! It'll destroy everything!

Likewise, when Sam was with Jessica, he wasn’t honest about himself. He was hiding from his family and his past. Running to avoid pain. Sam is avoidant in general. Not just in his relationship with Dean. When he talks with Rowena in 13.12 Various & Sundry Villains about his fears of Lucifer, he admits that he could talk about it with Dean, but he can’t bring himself to.

Sam: I’ve seen it too. What he really looks like behind – behind whatever vessel. It… Yeah, still keeps me up at night. Rowena: How do you deal with it? Sam: I guess I don’t deal with it. Not really. I mean, I pushed it down and, um, the world kept almost ending, so I keep pushing it down, and I don’t know. [stammering] I really don’t talk about it, not even with Dean. I mean, I could. You know, he’d listen, but… That’s not something I really know how to share.

In 15.20, Sam’s past is front and center. Literally. I know a lot of people found the Winchester family portrait odd and upsetting, but it symbolizes something I’ll get to in a bit. Instead of trying to avoid his grief, Sam has moments where he lets it wash over him. He goes and sits in the car. He’s no longer avoidant. He’s no longer running away. He’s letting his grief move through him. He’s literally sitting with it.

Soulless Puppy pointed out that the characters emotional arcs is similar to DBT. Please look through their awesome meta here.

Personally, I see them as similar to the therapy I do called ACT. Both are forms of therapy where instead of fighting against them, you accept painful emotions and allow yourself to feel them. If you don’t do that work, then you can’t stop feeling them and your fears/ghosts will always haunt you.  In Swan Song, Chuck tells us that “Dean didn't want Cas to save him. Every part of him, every fiber he's got, wants to die, or find a way to bring Sam back. But he isn't gonna do either. Because he made a promise.”  In 15.20, Sam initially didn’t want to let Dean go. He’s been refusing to do this since season 1. When he’s separated from Dean he lives a fake life or destroys himself/the world trying to get Dean back. There’s a moment in 15.20 where Sam looks at Dean’s guns. He wants to commit suicide, but he makes the choice to live. For the time in Sam’s life, he let Dean go and lived with his pain. He no longer ran from it. After Swan Song, Dean was unable to let Sam go. He wanted him back. After Carry On, Sam is able to do what Dean couldn’t do. He lives a life outside of Dean. What’s more, Sam has reconciled himself with his past and his family. It’s clumsy and I wish it were better shown, but having the family portrait and their parents in heaven isn’t meant to excuse the way Sam and Dean were raised. In order to move past the trauma of his relationship with his parents, Sam fully integrates them into his life. In Lebanon, Sam was able to confront and forgive his father. In doing so, he can also forgive himself. Mary asks for forgiveness too, and he grants it to her. He doesn’t forget what happened, but he’s able to move forward and leave the intergenerational cycle of violence. He’s able to raise his son, Dean, the way his brother should have been raised.

Happiness isn’t in the having, it’s in just being. It’s in just saying it.

Cas said it. Dean accepted it. Sam lived it.

I can see why people see Sam’s life after Dean as unhappy. I hated it so much because I saw it as horrible and sad the first time through. I had to sit with myself and my emotions first. I think it’s because we’ve been told by society that we have to get rid of our grief in order to be happy. The finale was showing us that it’s possible to do the opposite. [Personally I think it would’ve been better had they showed more overtly happy memories, but many of my friends saw this straight away] When I began therapy, one of the first things I learned was that there aren’t “negative” emotions. When working with our kids, we call them Big emotions. In DBT/ACT, all emotions are treated as normal and natural. Grief, anger, sadness, etc, these are all normal parts of the human existence. We don’t need to run from them in order to have happiness. We can live with them. As interstitial said in our chats, “you can't change the past, you can only change your relationship to it. To accept that your past contained both love and heartache, to miss it, but also know you can do better; that's actual recovery, as good as it gets.” As Soulless-Puppy explained to me, Sam lived in duality. Dean was dead, but Sam lived. Sam was happy, but he grieved. Dean was with him in the watch and the car and his son, but Dean also waited for him in heaven. I hated the finale the first time I saw it, then next watched it with my boyfriend who loved it. As we were watching together and discussing it, I realized that Dean’s death scene wasn’t just about him, but about the show itself. 

Dean promising Sam that he will be with Sam in Sam’s heart is also the show promising us that they will never leave it. That’s why Alex kept posting “The end has no end.” Just as Sam carried Dean with him in his heart, we will carry the show with us. I hope this helps. It’s a terrible thing to feel upset about an ending and thinking of the show this way, recognizing these patterns, is bringing me peace. I still have issues with how it was written, but now that I see what they were doing, I wish all the more that they had the chance to do it right. Please share your thoughts and experiences. I love hearing different opinions. Next up, Dean. Then Castiel.

#supernatural #spn #spnfamily #spn family #spn 15.20 #spn s15 #spn s15 spoilers #carry on #spn finale #sam winchester #dean winchester #jared padalecki #jensen ackles #brotherlylove #sam&dean #brothers man #my meta #meta #spnmeta #spn meta #long post #spn fandom #spnfandom #sam winchester analysis

[janiedean]

I feel bad for all the nice J*nsa shippers who like their ship for whatever reasons (tropes, pretty art, aesthetic appeal, whatever) and know it's not canon but get associated with the misogynistic Dany hating crowd who act like Jon being attracted to Ygritte is J*nsa foreshadowing because red hair (I guess Jon should fuck Edmure Tully too? Omg give me Dark!Jon getting revenge on Catelyn by seducing her brother!) Tell me something. I'm new to the fandom but was J*nsa popular before the show? And I've heard something about the OG J*nsa shippers being alienated by the new shippers who insisted it had to be canon and acted like the series is called, "A song of J*nsa #danysux." I don't find that hard to believe because I know people who are now ashamed of calling themselves J*nsa shippers. Like, at this point, it's not only rival shippers who hate it. Even Gendrya/Braime/Jon stans/etc have started disliking that ship. You know your fandom is a problem when people who have nothing to do with Jnsa have a problem with it.

me: reads this ask

me: iwastheregandalf.gif which I can't find now but

okay anon buckle up because I am sadly well-equipped to answer this ask but before I do lemme tell you dark jon seducing edmure to take revenge on cat is LITERALLY THE BEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD but *clears throat* ALL RIGHT THEN.

disclaimer: as anon says I have no issue with like the shippers mentioned by anon in the beginning and ngl I agree, I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO FUCKING STAKES in the j*nsa vs j*nerys war and the only het jon ship I gaf about is jon/ygritte and we all know where that ended up I just... have been here since 2011/adwd was over and all the fic around was just for the books under secret lj communities and asoiaf qualified for yuletide and I have... seen... things.... and I actually have like uh had... beef... with some people in there and I know things bc ppl who hated those others told me stuff so anyway *sigh* buckle up anon I'mma tell you the story of jon shipwars through the years

in order, the old gods help me here, under the cut bc this is long as fuck

when I got into fandom also given what numbers were on ao3 one ship was popular and it was sansan. no like sansan was lit. the only asoiaf ship on ao3 with more than 200 fics. jb had twenty when i checked first. jc had like around 100-ish because of the show but sansan dwarfed anything. I posted the first jon/ygritte fic on the ao3 tag and the fourth throbb fic and like the others were all reposts from lj kinkmemes. nothing was popular before the show except for sansan when it comes to huge numbers bc grrm doesn't like fic and it was all hush hush until the show made it impossible to control and that ship was the one with a huge enough fanbase it actually had numbers, so like... j*nsa wasn't popular in the way nothing else was popular until it got screentime on the show

now, that stated, j*nsa had a... fair amount of fic for a rareship which was mostly book-based and from og shippers that were there from before the show and liked it for what it was but literally none of them thought it was gonna be canon, like it wasn't huge or anything but it had a small but dedicated fanbase who did their own thing and thought it was fun/liked the idea but that was it

that fandom had their own niche of hcs that they cultivated and shit except that like... at the end of S5/beginning of S6 there was a surge in shipping for... well obvious reasons bc it was obv sansa was getting to the wall and that would have been all nice and good but a) it was the time puritanical shipping was starting to take root and the 'shipping sansa with sandor or tyrion is hella problematic' rhetoric had started to circle coming from sans*ery shippers mostly but I'mma not open that fucking can of worms here, b) while the ending of S5 had more of a theon/sansa spike, the j*nsa stuff started getting big

now here we have to mention my villain origin story ie: j*nsa fandom had this one stan whose name I won't make because honestly it's been years and if she's still around I don't want her to remember I exist who was a bnf, wrote for... the website that created the whole larry/carol thing etc who was really fixed on this thing that j*nsa was actually canon and started writing extremely popular meta about it. now you're gonna ask how do you know, I know because this person once wrote a meta named 'why robb stark is a dick' and I told her that it was really fucking bad meta and she took it so badly she kept on trash talking me on her blog/her podcast (I was apparently the insane robb stark fangirl l m a o good lord) and like that was when some sane ppl who argued with her informed me in pvt that she was basically harping on the CANON thing when they'd have been okay with like... it being crackshipping and that she was basically cultivating a hoarde of followers who were harping on them/the ogs and basically ostracizing them;

I would like to add that this person - before her tumblr got 'accidentally deleted' and remade it therefore deleted most receipts for, er, her so-called meta which included stuff like ned and cat raised sansa as a sexual object and only wanted to sell her like cattle - had at some point started a round robin fic thing where... some of the characters mocked openly said stuff that some of the og fans had said specifically targeting them and people in that side basically went harassing anyone who didn't agree with that specific notion

now never mind that this person basically coined an entire term to describe ppl who liked white guys and excused all their wrongdoings out of my conversation re robb basically lying about everything I said as if I didn't have the receipts and tried to sell shirts with it and it didn't work and like then she got kicked out of her own website because she was telling her commenters disagreeing pretty shitty insults (considering I was called psychotic for disagreeing with her that time I don't doubt it) I think at some point she stepped back from fandom bc idk wtf she's up to these days and I don't want to, but basically at that point the dam was broken and there was a bunch of puritanical shippers harping on anyone who didn't agree with j*nsa is canon endgame stuff

this also includes an incident when those ppl were like... passing themselves as throbb shippers and ended up trying to tell t*hramsay shippers off the theon tag based on moral reasons and I ended up arguing with all of them (and they were all from that crowd) which in turn landed me in contact with other og j*nsa shippers who were like detached from that fandom bc those same people harassed them away as well ssooooo fun

anyway when S6 happened everyone was high on it and whatnot but I wasn't gonna begrudge them that I mean... you shipped it for years, canon is delivering you, good for you, but then j*nerys happened

god j*nerys happened

aaand basically...... I mean personally I was there like are y'all seriously arguing about the best incest jon ship out there but like basically the j*nsa endgame side was like AH JON IS PLAYING DANY SEE IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, the j*nerys obv got defensive af and both sides were sort of alternatively shitting on jon/ygritte anyway and depicting any other romantic rship jon could have as abusive™ and during S8 it just got worse and like I tried to stay out of it but basically from what I'm seeing now idk how the j*neryses are doing but on the j*nsa one it's ah jon's gonna play dany anyway and she's going to go insane like in the show so SHOW TRUTHING EVERY OTHER WAY and like again denying that sandor exists or that tyrion exists and like I barely touch my corner (sansan) but I ended up arguing with j*nsa/th*nsa people on twitter who were antis and is2g it was white-hair inducing and I know for sure the sansa/tyrion shippers were harassed to hell and back throughout so FUN

and even if the show didn't go there now since everyone there banked on the jnsa endgame thing and admitting you're wrong is like... not a thing, they still haven't let go of it and attach to that ship any shred of evidence which honestly is grasping at straws half of the time (like... the sansa/alysanne parallels like guys please no) and which is why every other ship is starting to get fed up, attaching canon proof of stuff from other ships onto theirs see that batb argument and jb is platonic but jonsa is not nvm taking all the sansan stuff and throwing it on j*nsa but then denying that sansan has canon evidence (like guys I had to read sansa touching his shoulder when saying gregor wasn't a true knight wasn't meaningful and we were seeing things please) and blah blah blah

this also goes hand in hand with the fixation on like... villanizing dany at all costs and like is2g I have zero investment in dany or her storyline I don't even remember it and I don't particularly care abt her either way and sure af I'm not for j*nerys endgame but like.... some stuff I read is completely excessive esp when fixing on how she's a completely mad tyrant who's gonna have to be put down and like... guys no

(also there's some srs stannis hate in that corner which I honestly don't get why they even care abt stannis but I had to read stuff like ppl don't recognize that dany and stannis are the real villains in this saga and like........ idek)

I think most of the og shippers are gone or don't ship it openly bc they don't want to be attached to the drama but like I also think they're pissing off everyone else bc like... I mean a bunch of them also were down with sansa being paired with other ppl as long as it meant a good ending for her except those ppl were... like everyone but the ppl she has actual contact with in canon which meant that at some point sansa/gendry was a thing and like.... you can imagine why arya/gendry shippers & arya stans were fed up, and there's also this tendency to behave like sansa is the center of the entire saga which like these books is named a song of jon snow basically can we pls make peace with it and personally I've had it with both j*nsa and j*nerys people since they started with that dumbass JON/YGRITTE WAS AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP rhetoric but I'm also fed up with the total ignoring that sandor exists/depicting us as delusional and honestly I also was by proxy fed up from the harassing of the sansa/tyrion shippers soooooooooooo

there were also instances of 'well theon is an acceptable choice other than jon bc he can't threaten her' which... i mean we all know what that meant and I'm not even commenting it bc it's one AM and I have no force to but I don't have to explain why it's not a progressive take now do I

there were also metas about how cousin incest being legal in half of the world means that jondany is a worse incest and j*nsa doesn't count as such and I was basically there like guys please just fucking own up to it but honestly I chose to forgot where I read that and I couldn't find the link if I tried

tldr: no one wants to admit that it's not gonna be endgame which considering the amount of fic they have on ao3 is imvho useless bc they have more content than like.. anything I ship that's not jb or that's actually like canon *cries in joncon/rhaegar but I mean renly/loras is canon and has less fic than them* so idk what's the problem with enjoying that instead of insisting it's gonna be canon when not even the show validated it while show truthing anyway when the only show truthing that can be truthed is the small council made of minorities and possibly jon eventually fucking off with the wildlings but not like that but like most people who thought it wasn't gonna be endgame had left/were made to leave by the time S7 rolled by and at this point since wow isn't out yet everyone is fandom-grasping at straws to find stuff to discourse on and we're here beating dead horses *shrug*

so that's... how it is but I would again like to point out that I don't judge ppl on their shipping, I don't particularly care about this entire feud bc I only ship jon with ppl he's not related to in whichever way and I try to stay out of this mess bc I don't really care to argue with ppl who have already decided to bend canon to whatever they want and will have to realize that it's not what grrm wrote at some point but like I have a very good memory and the above rant is as objective as possible also bc again I don't literally have a stake in that race I just think romantic/endgame j*nsa is not a thing and that ppl should stay in their lane and not harping on other ppl who ship whatever in general but especially when their ship is the most popular thing in fandom in the first place /two cents

#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #anonymous #ask post #anti-jonsa #anti jonsa #anti-jonerys #anti jonerys #both of them for equality

[mirkwoodest]

History Channel's Vikings By Season According to Émile, post-rewatch (spoilers!)

vikings s1: Good

yeah it just slaps, sets of the world, makes you care. there's a reason it got renewed. the themes get set up, the cool stuff they do with languages, all good. Not perfect, but good.

vikings s2: Great

Plot is even more exciting than s2 in my opinion. The family reuniting in a new way rules. the set-up and twist in the finale is *mwah* 'My main issue was that Kwentrith was given a really 2D pussy-nality. Her stuff with Ecgbert and hitting on everyone was a red flag for the pointless horniness of the next few seasons, RIP.

vikings s3: Cringe until the last 3 episodes

U g h Yeah it gets very annoying here. The horniness of this season gets really tiresome here. Where before if felt like there was sexual energy that served a purpose, it started to get really pointless and annoying in this season. The way they wrote Þorrun off was annoying. Her arc felt very pointless and her motivation for leaving lacked depth. I couldn’t make myself care at all about the Saxon politics and that’s the show’s fault, not my fault, because I found that stuff plenty engaging in  The Last Kingdom. 

Good character development for other characters, especially Rollo and Bjorn. Aethelstan's stuff is pretty good. Was I sad to see him go? Yes, but I know George got a great gig as the main character of Versailles after this and I thought his death was respectful of his narrative arc. Unpopular opinoin maybe, but I appreciated Ragnar’s first signs of downward spiral. THE SEIGE OF PARIS IS SO GOOD. Literally felt like I was just waiting for the whole season to get back to this section. It seems like they put all their energy into these three episodes and it made all the cringe worth it. 

vikings s4 part 1: VERY cringe until close to the end. 

The Yidu plot was a HUGE fuck up. one of the worst of the entire show imo. Introducing a woman of color doesn’t get you any diversity points if make her a 2 dimensional sterotype and kill her horribly, lol. The political stuff in Paris with Odo and Charles and the offbrand Lannisters? Not a fan. Don’t care. Didn’t come here for that. Contributed nothing. The political stuff in Wessex with Exbert and Judith and Aethelwulf and Kwentrith? Not a fan. Don’t care. Didn’t come here for that. Could have all been cut and nothing would have been lost except for maybe little glimpses of baby Alfred. So many excessive and pointless horniness. Like WHY?

The only sex scenes that didn’t make me cringe were with Rollo and Gisla because they were funny and light and served a narrative purpose. Rollo and Gisla’s stuff was all solid gold. I would have liked more of it, to be honest. Enemies to lovers arranged marriage slowburn? Medieval powercouple? Girlboss/Malewife vibes? I wanted them to have a spin-off. Bjorn and the bear was a GOOD plot. It was a very effective way to make Bjorn grown up very fast. Lagertha making good on her promise to kill Kalf and doing it on their wedding day? A real GirlBoss move. I was similarly satisfied by Torvi’s stuff. I think it’s rad that she was such a minor character in season 2 and by season 4 she’s gotten pretty interesting. Ragnar’s downfall hurt, but it was a long time coming. It narratively made sense. As soon as they got back to Paris, the battles were once again wicked. That shit with the towers and the chain and the fire arrows was beautiful. Seriously, planning out interesting and engaging battles is one of the main strong suits of this show, it never disappoints. Finale? GOLD. Making us root for Rollo and feel satisfied that he had defeated the family of protagonists we’ve been rooting for this whole time? Genius. The jump forward in time!!!!!!! I remember I lost my shit watching it the first time. Because all of the first half of S4 is all about Ragnar falling to pieces, it was really useful and hopeful to see OH YEAH the next generation is about to take over.

vikings s4 part 2: Soooooooo good oh my god.

The tragedy. The coming together. Knowing that everyone's shit is about to get wrecked. TBH this might be the strongest season in terms of big-picture storytelling without neglecting nuances of individual characters. Biggest complaint is just that Gisla was treated as a dead end when there was still so much potential for interesting shit to happen with her and Rollo. Sigh. I thought Lagertha's characterization started to fray a bit though. Like it seemed like she was at peace w/ Aslaug so why kill her after she surrendered?

vikings s5 part 1: Decent

Good plot. Less over-the-top horniness. Very solid except Heamund was very annoying. Stuff with the brothers was pretty good. Lagertha's characterization continued to fray though. Idk why I don't have much to say, I guess that kind of speaks to the quality of 5a. Not mindblowing but not rage inducing.

vikings s5 part 2: Okay...

The plot itself was pretty good except Freydis is 2D as fuck. Great potential just left to rot on the floor. I'm in love with Gunnhild. Heamund was.... poorly cast. They continued to tone down the over-the too horniness and everyone benefited. Gunnhild my beloved... Thorra's character existing just to be fridged was 🙄 Speaking of which Hvitserk's arc was all over the place and totally disconected from where he came from of where he was going.

vikings s6 part 1: Good

Good tbh. Kiev is DOPE. Ingrid was kind of 2D. Hvitserk's fixation on Thorra was kind of hard to buy into because she had so little screentime and personality before being fridged. Bjorn's, Ivar's, and Hvitserk's arcs all felt solid and interesting. Loved everything with the little Russian prince. Yeah. Bjorn's kid dying felt very pointless though, and made me annoyed at Lagertha. Lagetha's end was good. Bjorn wrecking Hvitserk was extremely triggerig hahaha but good. The battle with the Rus was good. Character development for everyone but Hvitserk felt solid

vikings s6 part 2: Good

Mostly all good. Bjorn's final stuff was great. Hvitserk and Ivar's stuff was good, the Rus plotline was good. I really disliked the Gunnhild, Ingrid, Harald, Eric stuff. Like compared to the other plotlines it felr very hollow. They made Ingrid more 3D at least. I have mixed feelings about Gunnhild..... like it was kind of a badass end, but she was supposed to be the mother of kings???? The England plotline was pretty good, especially Ivar, Hvitserk, and Harald's stuff although Alfred just couldn't compare with TLK's Alfred in terms of depths. He was comparatively very 2D. I think they rushed Hvitserk's arc completion. There was interesting stuff that could have been mined. Ubbe and Torvi's stuff was p agonizing but the payoff was huge. I liked the Canada plotline. Very satisfying and a beautiful counterbalance to to the tone of the entire show, creating a really fitting ending in my book. Like perfect? No, of course not. The had sooo many strings to tie up so it would have been almost impossible to do it perfectly. But overall it was a satisfying and natural end. I felt like investing so much time to go on a journey with these characters was worth it in the end and it gave me a lot to think about.

#rape mention #vikings tv #I probably left out some stuff but this isnmy general take #txt

[historyofshipping]

My massive Bellarke is epic and here’s proof from s5-7 rant.

Ok guys I cannot stress enough that I am drunk, this is long, it has strong language, and it’s a trip. I am putting it almost all under a cut because it is 20 f*ing pages on word.

For reference: this was on a discord chat and I am removing all names and a few other things but there will be absolutely no editing. Anything in straight text is me, anything in italics is someone else (there’s several different someone elses so people are separated by line breaks). On my page I think it appears as everything grey is someone else, everything black is me. I’m going to put the beginning on here and rest under the cut. If you’re still going through with this, I suggest some popcorn.

Guys... I'm trying to stay optimistic but I'm really worried that jroth is gonna make bellarke canon in a really disappointing way. Like for me infidelity is a huge no in ships and I hate that becho has gone on so long that there doesn't seem to be a lot of room left in the canon timeline for a becho breakup/end that doesn't ruin the start of Bellarke for me

WAIT I GOT YOU I CAN CALM YOU I THINK BUT FIRST I NEED TO EAT MY BREADSTICKS

Every moment Echo is on the screen I want to claw my eyes out because she's so boring please jroth let it fucking end, but the feminist in me doesn't want her to die or be disrespected just because she's a callous asshole who doesn't deserve him yknow

Eat your breadsticks babe I've been living with my dread for 2 seasons I can hang on a little longer I just wish the entire becho relationship had never happened it's a blight and it's gone on so long adenfkidsngksdgnksdgn

Kate will say it better than I will, but don't lose hope! Becho hasn't really been together on screen for very long. It's only been like a few weeks to a month since the beginning of S5. They've stretched it out over two seasons, but in canon not much time has passed. And most of that time had Bellamy either sacrificing almost 300 lives to save Clarke, poisoning his sister to save Clarke, or fucking off into the wilderness with Josephine to save Clarke. They've just straight up not had enough time for Bellamy to be like, "Hey Echo, I know I said things wouldn't change but that was before my wife was actually alive, so bye." Though  to wishing Becho had just never happened. We got one good angst scene with Clarke seeing them kiss. But otherwise, I could have very much done without their whole relationship.

they gave me 2 dozen breadsticks. i ordered 6

You've been blessed by the breadstick goddess.

oh sorry i was misinformed. i only have 22. apparently one bag only had 4 OK SO BELLARKE BITCHES AM I GOING TO ANNOYINGLY DO THIS IN CAPS SO BUCKLE TF UP

I mean, I love the idea that they only got together in the sixth year on the ring when Bellamy totally lost hope but is that canon? I thought we had a 3 year range

ALL RIGHT

We ignore canon in this channel. lol They've been together for 3 months.

SO LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING OF BECHO ok caps off. i even annoyed myself

I'm so here for this.

https://tenor.com/view/murder-she-wrote-angela-lansbury-jessica-eats-popcorn-interested-gif-4594942

Damn, I was ready for caps.

OK WE'RE BACK TO CAPS

https://giphy.com/gifs/popcorn-go-on-keep-going-Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu

OK SO WE HAVE BECHO'S FIRST SCENE TOGETHER ANYONE REMEMBER WHAT BELLAMY SAID? ANYONE? THIS REQUIRES AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION

"Hey work with me so I can break everyone out of this mountain"? or something?

OH DAMN I MEANT WHEN THEY WERE CANONICALLY TOGETHER XP

"I'm a goddamn delight who's trying to save your life you ungrateful walnut so maybe don't spit in my face" is what I would have written

LMFAO OJN THE RING WHAT'S THE FIRST THING WE HEAR FROM THEM? THE FIRST IMPORTANT THING? ANYONE?

Unfortunately that scene was physically repulsive for me so I don't remember much except for "nothing will change on the ground and my sister totally didn't mean to murder you"

AHA! THERE YA GO NOTHING WILL CHANGE ON TEH GROUND BECAUSE WHAT IS HE EXPECTING ON THE GROUND? NOTHING TO CHANGE BECAUSE THE ONLY THING THAT COULD CHANGE IS -----

>"I'm a goddamn delight who's trying to save your life you ungrateful walnut so maybe don't spit in my face" is what I would have written I SPIT OUT MY DRINK I CANNOT

ANYONE? YUP

I'm behind. lol

CLARKE

AND THEN WE GOT TO THE GROUND, WHAT HAPPENED?

BEING ALIVE

His sister having more taste in his romantic partners than him?

WHAT WAS THE LITERAL ONE THING THAT COULD HAPPEN THAT WOULD CHANGE BELLAMY'S MIND DING DING DING CLARKE IS ALIVE

10 points to 

AND WHAT DOES OUR BABY BOY DO?

SACRIFICE 300 PEEPS FOR HIS WIFE

Clarke with a gun AND a kid AND a rover AND bedtime storytelling practice like what more could he want that's all the things he loves

A LITTLE AHEAD BUT BANG

BABY BOY FOLLOWS CLARKS DAUGHTER FIRST, LEAVING ECHO IN THE LITERAL DUST (that's what he does before sacrificing lives)

WE WENT FROM "I WILL NOT TOUCH THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO DO BETTER." TO "I WILL SLAUGHTER 283 PEOPLE WITHOUT RAISING AN EYEBROW" BECAUSE RANDOM CHILD SHOWS UP AND SAYS "CLARKE'S IN TROUBLE" RANDOM CHILD WHO HAS JUST KILLED A BUNCH OF HARDENED CRIMINALS

He had the dad mug tho, he had to help her

HE SAW HIMSELF IN HER HE KNEW

OK

HIS SOUL KNEW

SO WE'RE THERE NOW BUT THEN BANG, WE'RE ON THE GROUND AND OH FUCK I FORGOT I HAD A GIRLFRIEND BUT BELLAMY IS LOYAL SO HE SURE AF ISN'T DOING ANYTHING UNTIL HE'S DONE WITH ECHO BUT

He's had 2 seasons!!!!!

CLARKE BASICALLY ACTS LIKE SHE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE SEPARATION THOU SHALT NOT POKE HOLES IN MY SHIT UNTIL I AM DONE

>He's had 2 seasons!!!!! But only like a few weeks in time.

BECAUSE THESE TWO FUCK HEADS CANNOT HAVE A CONVERSATION

Forgive me!

SO WE HAVE A GRAND TOTAL OF FEWER THAN 3 WEEKS THAT THEY'RE ON THE GROUND AND THEN IN THAT TIME WE HAD.... one sec pPLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REVIEW THE TIMELINE https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/620425806742749184/season-5-7x03-so-far-timeline FOR SEASON 5 ALL RIGHT SO WE HAVE THEM TOGETHER FOR LESS THAN A WEEK BEFORE BELLAMY'S LIKE (FROM CLARKE'S PERSPECTIVE) "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR KID, I HAVE TO SAVE MY FAMILY" SO THEN WE HAVE THEM SPEND THE NEXT 10 DAYS APART BECAUSE SHE LEFT HIM AFTER SLAPPING HIM AND SHE THOUGHT HE DIED BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING MORONS WHO CAN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION (YOU WILL NOTICE A RECURRING THEME) AND THEN, ECHO HAS LEARNED THAT NOT ONLY HAS CLARKE CARED ABOUT BELLAMY ALL THIS TIME BUT THAT SHE'S ONCE AGAIN READY TO PUT THE FATE OF HUAMNITIY ON THE LINE TO SAVE HIM "GO SAVE HIM. EVEN TAKE MURDER!DAUGHTER WITH YOU" BUT BELLAMY STILL DOESN'T KNOW THIS SO ANYWAY WE HAVE ANGST!BELLAMY GET PARENT TRAPPED BY MURDER!DAUGHTER are y'all still with me? AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY AFTER MURDER!DAUGHTER'S INTERVENTION?

BELLARKE FORGIVENESS ™

YAS NOT ONLY THAT BUT SOFT!BELLARKE RETURNS WITH A VENGEANCE [side note: you can pry this theory from my cold dead hands but there was 100% a canon bellarke scene between forgiveness and 125 year wake up just in case they ended at season 5.]

[I need them to publish that scene when this is all over]

ALL RIGHT SO FUCKING MARPER - WHO SPENT A TOTAL OF LIKE 4 MONTHS WITH CLARKE BUT 6 YEARS WITH THEIR FAMILY- DECIDED TO WAKE UP BELLARKE TO TALK TO AND GIVE GUARDIANSHIP TO AND WHY DID THEY DO THAT?

THEY BEEN KNEW

I'LL ACCEPT IT

OK SO WE GET THIS PROMISING FUTURE TOGETHER ON THIS NEW PLANET RIGHT?

WRONG MURDER POLLEN

OK BUT TECHNICALLY BECHO IS STILL TOGETHER. NO PROBLEM - WE NEED TO FIGURE OUR SHIT OUT AND THEN WE'LL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO HAVE PEACE AND GET TOGETHER OK SO I'M JUST GOING TO START SAYING "CHORUS" WHEN I MEAN "BECAUSE THESE TWO DUMBASSES CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER" IS CHORUS THE RIGHT WORD? OR IS IT REFRAIN? WHATEVER ONE REPEATS - THAT ONE ALL RIGHT SO WE HAVE THEM GOING INTO THE VILLAGE AND EVERY TIME THERE IS DANGER, BELLAMY GOES IMMEDIATELY TO CLARKE WHEN IT'S PEACEFUL, OPE IT'S BACK TO ECHO

(like the husband he is)

I HAVE A WHOLE META ABOUT THAT IF YOU WANT IT BUT SO THEN THE FIRST TIME - LITERALLY THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE MARPER VIDEO - THAT THEY'RE ALONE, IT'S BECAUSE BELLAMY HAS SOUGHT HER OUT AND WHY DID BELLAMY SEEK HER OUT? Y'ALL I'M ONLY AT 6X01. I HAVE SO MUCH AMMUNITION BUT SOMEONE IS WELCOME TO SCREEN SHOT THIS SO THAT THE NEXT TIEM WE HAVE DOUBTS, I DON'T HAVE TO TYPE IT ALL OUT SO WHY DID BELLAMY SEEK HER OUT?

>Y'ALL I'M ONLY AT 6X01. I HAVE SO MUCH AMMUNITION @kate (historyofbellarke) "Give a position show me where the ammunition is" from My Shot just popped into my head lololol

WHY DID BELLAMY LEAVE HIS CANONICAL GIRLFRIEND TO GO SEEK OUT CLARKE?

BECAUSE HE LOVES HER AND ALSO BECAUSE THERE WAS DANGER

OK BUT WHY SPECIFICALLY NOOO WHEN CLARKE WAS IN THE SCHOOL

AND THE LAST TIME SHE WASN'T IN HIS SIGHT SHE ALMOST DIED

OK THAT TOO

Okay I'm lost at this point then.

LOL

Phone a friend.

Bc she sucks and Clarke's the best?

I'LL LET ---- CHIME IN LMFAO I LOVE YOU GUYS KNOW IT'S TO TELL HER THAT HE KNOWS ABOUT THE CALLS

OH THAT SCENE

HE KNOWS THAT SHE CALLED HIM EVERY DAY FOR 2,199 DAYS HE SOUGHT HER OUT, BY HERSELF, TO TELL HER THIS

YES YES

BUT BECAUSE CHORUS

WE'RE BACK THESE FUCK HEADS CAN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION

SHE GOT NERVOUS AND DUCKED OUT BECAUSE IT'S BEEN LESS THAN 3 WEEKS SINCE HE CAME BACK AND SHE'S OVERWHELMED BECAUSE HOLY FUCK WHAT A 3 WEEK PERIOD THAT WAS (REFER BACK TO TIMELINE AS NEEDED) ALL RIGHTY SO THEN AFTER THAT THEY FIND OUT ABOUT THE RED SUN WHICH BY THE WAY IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS BECAUSE HE CALLS OVER ECHO JUST TO PROMPTLY IGNORE HER COMPLETELY [AND BECAUSE IT'S ME, I HAVE A GIFSET FOR THAT] SORRY I GOT DISTRACTED

NO WE'RE HERE FOR THE GIFSET

I'M LOOKING OK IT'S PART OF THIS SO YOU GET A 2 FOR 1 https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/184827185143/bellarke-danger-vs-becho-safety OK NOW I FORGOT WERE I LEFT OFF OH YEAH IGNORING ECHO ALL RIGHT SO THEN WE HAVE EVERYTHING GO TO SHIT AND OF COURSE, BELLARKE LOCK THEMSELVES TOGETHER AND WE HAVE THE ANGST THE ANGST BUT THEY HAVE EACH OTHER'S KEYS

WHICH IS A MARRIED MOVE IF I EVER HEARD ONE

BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE KEY TO MY HEART, WHEREVER YOU ARE, I'LL KEEP YOU

That's a very comprehensive gifset

IF YOU DON'T KNOW THAT SONG THEN I FEEL OLD SO YOU HAVE THEM UNLOCKING EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF COURSE THEY ARE

I might drift in and out of conversation, partner wants attention but I wanna finish reading this asdfgh

AND HE'S LIKE "NAH ECHO, WIFEY AND I GOT THIS. WE GOTTA TAKE CARE OF OUR KIDS." TELL THEM TO WAIT THEIR TURN SO THEY'RE GOING LITERALLY PSYCHOTIC BUT THAT'S COOL. I TRUST THE OTHER ONE ENOUGH TO NOT KILL ME BUT OH WAIT - WHAT IS BELLAMY'S PSYCHOSIS ?

Not needing Clarke anymore...?

YUP WHICH MEAN S

He needed her and knew it at some point

YUP ALSO I FOUND THAT GIFSET THAT I IDD TO THAT SONG https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/184725894498/this-song-popped-into-my-head-and-i-had-to OK SO SKIPPING AHEAD, HIS BIGGEST SECRET IS THAT HE DOES STILL NEED HER OK EVEN I'M STARTED TO GET BORED SO I'LL GIVE BULLET POINTS FROM HERE ON OUT SO WE HAVE HIM NEEDING HER HIM CALLING HER THE LEADER EVEN THOUGH SHE HASN'T BEEN FOR LIKE 6 YEARS AND WE HAVE HIM PINING OVER HER AT THE DANCE FLOOR AND PICKING A FIGHT WITH ECHO OH YEAH AND WE SEE ALL THE  BECHO CRACKS HERE

This has been a v good rundown, I won't lie.

LOL

ONWARD  I'M BACK ON TRACK

WE HAVE JUXTAPOSED: ECHO NOT KNOWING WHAT TO SAY WITH REGARDS TO OBUT CLARKE KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT TO SAY EVEN AFTER 6 YEARS

BECAUSE WIFEY

https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/618426948212965376/historyofbellarke-4-times-someone-knew-the-right

Really you'd think the spy would know what someone wants to hear smh

NAH BECAUSE SHE HAS NO EMOTIONAL EMPATHY. WE'LL GET TO THAT EVENTUALLY

She's also kinda a shit spy. Like when has she ever done actual spying.

Y'ALL I HAVE A GIF FOR EVERYTHING. I'M THE LIZ WARREN OF BELLARKE GIFS GIFSETS AT LEAST

You don't need empathy to fake it, Madison's right she's just such a bad spy :joy:

I'VE GOT NOTHING ON ---- FOR JUST GIFS LOLi

I say this as someone who was 10/10 a spy in a past life at least according to my recurring dreams about it1

OK SO THEN WE ALSO HAVE BELLAMY SIDING WITH CLARKE AT EVERY TURN, OVER ECHO'S EXPLICIT OBJECTIONS AND WE HAVE HER NOTICINGGGGGG WE'RE HERE FOR THIS CONTENT

https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/185265380768/6x04-bec-scene-follow-up-with-6x05 JUST ONE EXAMPLE

HATE TO SEE IT 

SO WE HAVE BELLAMY CLEARLY SHOWING THAT HE'S HER LEADER - WHETHER HE MEANS TO BE OR NOT - WHICH COMES IN IN 7X01

Total aside but now I want a modern au where Bellamy doesn't know how to break up with Echo so he tries to ghost her while everyone around him is pulling their hair out

OH SHIT ONE SECOND I HAVE TO DO DUOLINGO SO I DON'T LOSE MY STREAK BRB

>Total aside but now I want a modern au where Bellamy doesn't know how to break up with Echo so he tries to ghost her while everyone around him is pulling their hair out ---- I love this, actually. WE SHALL HOLD YOUR SPOT

No one in this goddamn canon knows how to have an actual breakup conversation they only know how to die

CORRECT CHORUS

BECAUSE THESE TWO DUMBASSES CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER

Ironically Raven and Finn are the only ones who have had a half-normal breakup.

Will be back, partner is dramatically exclaiming that I don't love him anymore bc I won't go give him a goddamn hug bc the meta's too good

BOOM OK I'M BACK

SIDE NOTE BEFORE WE'RE BACK

GO ON

What language are you learning on Duolingo?

relearning spanish and then german german for work, spanish because i used to be fluent and i'm so bad now xp

This entire convo is a chaotic mess

We are a chaotic mess.

WELCOME TO THE HELLMOUTH, ----

Our ship is a chaotic mess.

It all tracks, honestly.

WE WOULD'VE ALL BEEN SO MUCH BETTER OFF IF JASPER HAD DESTROYED THE CHIP OOK SO MOVING ON NOW I FORGOT WHERE I LEFT OFF OH YEAH LEADER PERF SO OH YEAH I FORGOT TO ADD - 6 & 7 ARE ONE SINGULAR SEASON SO

This convo should totally be convered into a Masterclass session at the end. YES

WE'VE GOT A RUNNING THREAD OF ECHO BEING A FOLLOWER OF BELLAMY AND HER KNOWING IT

6/7 ARE ONE SEASON WE'RE HERE WE'RE LIVING

BUT BACK TO S6 SO WE HAVE BELLAMY BEING THE FIRST TO REALIZE THAT CLARKE WANS'T CLARKE AND WE HAVE THIS BEAUTIFUL MOMENT

I’m here and all of this is glorious

OH YEAH THERE'S ALSO THIS BUT I DIGRESS https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/618548726524510208/historyofbellarke-5x09-6x04-6x05 THE FIRST ONE HERE - https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/616075629201408000/just-some-clips-ofabout-bellamy-where-either HE'S WILLING TO RISK EVERYTHING EBCAUSE CLARKE MIGHT BE AT RISK  EVEN THOUGH THEY LITERALLY HAVE NO WHERE ELSE TO GO OH YEAH FUCKING MURPHY - I'LL GET BACK TO HIM ALL RIGHT SO THEN WE HAVE BELLAMY FIGURING IT OUT AND THE HORROR BLOOMING IN HIS SOUL AND THEN WE HAVE HIM LITERALLY WITH A ROOM DESTROYED EVERN THOUGH HE IS CHAINED UP LIKE SERIOUSLY HOW DID HE MANAGE THAT AND THEN TRY TO KILL RUSSELL THE SECOND HE COULD BECAUSE HE HURT CLARKE EVEN THOUGH, AGAIN, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY HE AND HIS PEOPLE COULD SURIVVE BUT WITHOUT CLARKE, HE'S NOT ALIVE. HE ONLY SURVIVES AND HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? BECAUSE HE FUCKING SAYS IT (implicitly)

I just came into this. I have nothing to add I just want to say I’m living for it

:heart:

Agreed, this conversation is giving meaning to my insomnia :joy:

https://historyofbellarke.tumblr.com/post/618973621000585216/just-a-reminder-that-bellamy-canonically-only

WHOLE F*ING THING ON SURVIVING VS LIVING AND THEN ONCE HE DECIDES THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE (AND LET RUSSELL LIVE)  BECAUSE IT'S WHAT CLARKE WOULD'VE WANTED, HE SAYS "WE SURVIVE" LOOKING LIKE THE SADDEST FUCKING PUPPY IN EXISTENCE AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE FACT THAT WE HAD A WHOLE DAMN EPISODE OF A 13 EPISODE SEASON DEVOTED TO BELLAMY SUFFERING BECAUSE HIS WIFE DIED AGAIN 3 WEEKS AFTER SHE WAS RESURRECTED SUBTLE, JASON. SUBTLE. OK NOW BACK TO MY BELOVED COCKROACH MURPHY AND BELLAMY ARE ARGUABLY THE TWO CLOSEST NON-ROMANTIC (:upside_down:) PEOPLE ON THE SHIP THE RING RIGHT? OK WE'RE GOING WITH IT ANYWAY

Hmmm yes(I agreee) but also Clarke and Murphy have that understanding that transcends words?

THEY ARE THE CLOSEST ROMANCE WITHSTANDING ON THE SHIP

AND MURPHY, MY BELOVED MURPHY, HAS BEEN THERE FROM "I'LL CHOP HER HAND OFF" TO "OH FUCK OH FUCK OH FUCK CLARKE IS UNCONSCIOUS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO" TO "YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE SAVING SOMEONE THEY CARE ABOUT"

BECAUSE BELLAMY DOES NOT EVEN KNOW ECHO'S ACTUAL NAME AND THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT CLOSE

LOL SO MURPHY AFTER 6 YEARS IS TRYING TO GET BELLAMY TO DO SOMETHING HE WANTS (WE'RE BACK IN SEASON 5 NOW, SORRY) AND HOW DOES HE DO THAT?

AND INVOLKES MOM'S NAME

BLESSED BE "WELL IF CLARKE WAS HERE" BELLAMY ESPLODES OK SO NOW WE HAVE MURPHY AGAIN WHO KNOWSSSS AND WHAT DOES HE SAY TO JOSIE? ABOUT BELLAMY

If Clarke is dead Bellamy will kill us all HE KNOWS

BAM ALSO, REFER BACK TO PREVIOUS GIFSET, SAME MURPHY "OH YEAH I'LL TRY TO HELP ECHO TOO" BECAUSE MURPHY KNOWSSSS OOK THAT'S ALL FOR MURPHY NOW SO WE HAVE BELLAMY "WE'RE GOING TO SURVIVE BECAUSE I CAN'T LIVE WITHJOUT CLARKE BUT I'M GOING TO ONCE AGAIN HONOR HER FUCKING MEMORY" UNTILLLLLL WHAT HAPPENS

lol @ Murphy having to remind Bell his gf exists hahahah UNTIL HIS SOUL REALIZES CLARKE IS ALIVE

BUT HOW DOES HE REALIZE THAT

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME HE KNEW IT WAS MORSE CODE BECAUSE OF EARTH SKILLS NO

HE KNEW IT WAS MORSE CODE BECAUSE HIS SOUL FUCKING KNEW HIS WIFE WAS ALIVE

Yesss

PLATONIC SOULMATE MY ASS JASON

Morse code is life

[okay rant over, continue Kate]

MILLER'S FACE WAS LIKE "YOU FUCKING WHAT MAN?"

(side note- i am getting alive in morse code on my wrist when covid clears) OK SO WE'RE BACK SO WE HAVE JOSIE TAPPING HER FINGERS

Oh I love that I have friend who has that tattoo

YES TAP TAP MILLER GOING WTF BELL GOING ALL GIDDY PUPPY WITH A BONE

WHICH MEANS BELLAMY HAD TO HAVE GONE BACK TO HIS FAMILY AND SAY "OK WE'RE GOING TO RESCUE MY DEAD WIFE. SHE'S ALIVE. IKNOW BECAUSE JOSIE WAS TAPPING HER FINGERS." AND THE FAMILY HAD TO GO "YEAH OK THAT MAKES SENSE."

AND NO ONE QUESTIONED IT BECAUSE THEY BEEN KNEW

Yessss

SO WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO? LIKE IT WAS EVEN A QUESTION. THEY'RE RESCUING CLARKE AND BY THEY'RE I MEAN HE BECAUSE HE DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEM AT THE MOMENT SO HE'S LIKE "READY OR NOT, I'M RESCUING MY WIFE. BYEEEEE" AND JORDAN'S LIKE "WHAT ABOUT PRIYA?" AND EVERYONE'S LIKE ".... SORRY BRO. CLARKE. YOU WANTED HEART BELLAMY. YOU GOT HIM." SO HE GOES, LEAVING HIS FAMILY BEHIND WITH A BUNCH OF PSYCHOPATHIC MURDERERS WHO KNOW THAT BELLAMY IS GOING TO KILL THEIR DAUGHTER BUT HE'S JUST LIKE... BYE AND HE KNOWS, AND WE KNOW THAT HE KNOWS, BECAUSE JOSIE TAUNTS HIM ABOUT IT THE WHOLE TIME BECAUSE JOSIE IS THE AUDIENCE BASICALLY

JOSIE IS US BUT SLIGHTLY MORE PSYCHOTIC

ALL RIGHT SO SKIPPING AHEAD, SKIPPING AHEAD, YOU HAVE JOSIE'S WHOLE RUN DOWN OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP

TOGETHER

AND HIS VERY LONG PAUSE FOLLOWED BY "I WON'T LET YOU DIE"

EXHAUSTING

INSTEAD OF I FUCKING LOVE YOU BECAUSE CHORUS SO WE GET CLARKE BACK THROUGH SHEER FORCE OF BELLAMY'S WILL

>AND HIS VERY LONG PAUSE FOLLOWED BY "I WON'T LET YOU DIE" @kate (historyofbellarke) "I LOVE YOU, BITCH. I AIN'T EVER GONNA STOP LOVING YOU, BITCH."

"I'LL SHAVE THE BEARD" SO WE HAVE CLARKE WHO GAVE UP LIVING BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT BELLAMY GAVE UP (REMEMBER, JOSIE SHOWING HER THE MEMORY OF BELLAMY SAYING WE'LL TAKE THE DEAL) AND THEN CLARKE COMING BACK TO LIFE BECAUSE BELLAMY WOULDN'T GIVE UP AND THEN WE HAVE OCTAVIA, MY BROTHER POISONED ME FOR HIS WIFE AND I STILL RAISED MY NIECE ON STORIES OF EPIC BELLARKE, BLAKE IN THE BACKGROUND BEING ALL OF US

>SO WE HAVE CLARKE WHO GAVE UP LIVING BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT BELLAMY GAVE UP (REMEMBER, JOSIE SHOWING HER THE MEMORY OF BELLAMY SAYING WE'LL TAKE THE DEAL) @kate (historyofbellarke) OMG I HAVE A SPEC ABOUT THIS I HAVE A SPEC ABOUT THIS BUT IMMA WAIT TIL WE'RE DONE TO POP INTO SPEC TO TALK IT OUT OKAY CONTINUE

i'm going to keep going, but have i done a pretty good job of convincing anyone who was wavering? because remember this is all canon.  i have done absolutely no spec-ing at all.

I'm very hype rn. Ngl.

lol

Could flip a tire for Bellarke rn kind of hype

OK SO NOW CLARKE IS ALIVE BUT OH FUCK, THE REST OF THE FAMILY IS IN TROUBLE WE LITERALLY HAD MURPHY, MY BLESSED MURPHY, SHOW UP TO GO "YO. YOUR GIRLFRIEND." AND BELLAMY GO https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/591463308117278720/716493560610029708/tumblr_pv4mkld49N1xsmktho1_500.gif SO OF COURSE, IT'S NOT TIME TO TALK BECAUSE CHORUS

DUMBASSES NO TALKIE

SO WE GET EVERYONE FIXED. A BUNCH OF UNNECESSARY PLOT SHIT HAPPENS. AND THEN BELLAMY LITERALLY PUSHES HIS GIRLFRIEND OUT OF THE WAY TO GO AND DO A DRAMATIC SUNSET REUNION WITH HIS WIFE AND THEN PLOT SHIT PLOT SHIT PLOT SHIT WE'RE IN S7 AM I MISSING S6 STUFF? PROBABLY BUT Y'ALL IT'S LITERALLY BEEN 4 WEEKS IN CANON AT THIS POINT AND I MISSED A LOT OF SHIT. SO Y'KNOW. OUR BABIES ARE TIRED N AND NOW WE'RE ALL GOOD RIGHT? JUST GONNA GO HAVE A QUICK MEETING WITH GABRIEL AND THEN GO BACK TO MY WIFE SO WE CAN TALK OVER SOME TEA THEN BAM, O GETS STABBED AND THEN WE HAVE . 4 EPISODES THAT HAPPEN OVER 2 DAYS BEFORE CLARKE'S LIKE "WELP. I'M THROWING MYSELF HEAD FIRST INTO A WORM HOLE TO GO GET MY HUSBAND AND HIS STUPID GIRLFRIEND." AND YOU HAVE EVERYONE ELSE GOING "I'M SORRY, DID YOU THINK ANYTHING ELSE WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?" AND FOLLOWING AND THE S6/7 WRITERS MOSTLY JUST CHOSE TO IGNORE THAT S4/5 WRITERS GAVE CLARKE A DAUGHTER BECAUSE, WELL, I DON'T BLAME THEM EVEN THOUGH I LOVE MADI SHE'S AN UNNECESSARY COMPLICATION SO HAND WAVING SHE'S FINE SO NOW WE'RE UP TO PRESENT

Fully convinced Madi was there to ensure Clarke didn't go fully insane on Earth and provide motive for that bitch slap scene from S5.

brb spilled beer

Oh, and to parent trip Bell/Clarke.

>brb spilled beer @kate (historyofbellarke) makes sense after the tea you're spilling on this channel

Someone really oughta document this convo for a later date. lol We will need to reference it before end of the season, bet. lol

blesss i do not deserve my partner he told me to go sit down and is cleaning it also i went to finish the last of the unspilled stuff and promptly spilled it down my chest so ALL RIGHT WHERE WERE WE OH YEAH AND BELLAMY FORGAVE HER BECAUSE MADI WAS LIKE "YO YOU'RE A PARENT TOO AND REMMEBER SHE STOOD BY YOU WHEN YOU PUT OCTAVIA ABOVE LITERALLY EVERYTHING" AND BELLAMY WAS LIKE "OH... SHIT." AND THEN SHE WAS LIKE "SHE CALLE DYOU EVERY DAY YOU DUMBFUCK" AND YOU HAVE THE PATENTED "OMG, DOES CLARKE HAVE FEELINGS FO RME TOO???" JAW DROP BUT NOW BACK TO PRESENT

(Now if someone will just fucking tell her that he did the equivalent grant gestureTM of the radio calls except w/ poison)

i didn't even include the fact that he fucking poisoned O, that diyoza referred to her as his girlfriend, etc etc etc OH AND AS TO WHY HBECHO ISN'T GOING TO BE A HTING ANYMORE BESIDES EVERYTHING I'VE SAID

FINN COLLINS THAT'S WHY

BASUCALLY YES

FINN COLLINS EXCEPT AT LEAST CLARKE KNEW HIS REAL NAME

THEY DID A LITERAL EXACT PARALLEL BETWEEN BELLAMY AND ECHO SPFEIHOi4ur YES LIKE IT'S LIKE THE WRITERS FOUND BESTOFBECHO AND WENT "FUCK, ARE WE NOT BEING OBVIOUS ENOUGH? TIME TO CALL IN ZACH MCGOWAN" ( THEY FUCKING GOT ZACH ON A PLANE FROM LA TO VANCOUVER TO JUST SAY "YOU DON'T LOVE HIM" LIKE I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE HOW INVOLVED OF A PROCESS IT IS TO GET AN ACTOR THERE - ESPECIALLY IN CANADA WHERE YOU HAVE TO BALANCE NON-CANADIAN WITH CANADIAN ACTORS OR YOU CAN'T SHOOT IN CANADA SO THIS AMERICAN HAD TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT FOR THE WHOLE SEASON FOR A 2 MINUTE APPERANCE BUT THE WRITERS WERE LIKE "YO HUGE NEON SIGN RIGHT HERE" AND THEN SHE CONTINUED ALL SEASON IN THAT VEIN UNTIL 7X05 WHEN SHE BROKEEEEE OVER HIS "DEATH"

BECAUSE HER SOUL DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS ALIVE LIKE BELL DID CLARKE

AND DID THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING BELLAMY DID WHEN HE FOUND OUT CLARKE WAS ALIVE

And also as mentioned, she's a shit spy.

BECAUSE THE WRITERS ARE LIKE "CAN WE MAKE IT MORE OBVIOUS? I'M NOT SURE HOW!" so now we're at present day and here's a bit of crack spec-ing

THANKS FOR THIS LONG ASS META !!

YOU ARE WELCOME once again if i put that amount of effort into my dissertation, i'd be a phd with a published book or 3

This was a joy to read An utter joy This reaffirmed all my beliefs and got rid of all doubts I had

https://tenor.com/view/about-to-ugly-cry-ugly-cry-emotional-sensitive-crying-gif-8033343 i aim to please so now we have that O/B scene so we as the audience know something is off. bellamy was dragged sobbing and unconscious by his captors to suddenly being awake, fine, and killing a bunch of trained soldiers and holding someone hostage with his left hand. so then you have O, noticing something isn't quite right, casually bringing up clarke's name clarke. fucking. griffin. who bellamy had JUST brought back from the dead after learning she was alive and he's just... calm? about O possibly doing something with these psychos that's related to clarke? HE JUST POISONED HIS SISTER LIKE A WEEK AGO TO SAVE CLARKE'S LIFE i cannot stress this enough. bellamy fucking blake would not just go "huh?" when O, his sister that he's barely tolerating, goes "i'll tell you, you psychotic cultists, everything about my sister-in-law" and that's it. that's where i'm at s6 was about bellamy literally pulling clarke back from death s7 will be about clarke literally crossing time and space to get back to bellamy THIS IS AN EPIC FUCKING LOVE STORY AND ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS WRONG AND NOW I'M GOING TO TAKEA . SHOWER BECAUSE I SPILLED BEER ON MYSELF BUT I WILL BE BACK also i didn't think iw as drunk but then i reread that and started crying so it's definitely shower time

#bellarke #bellarke meta #the 100 #anti bech #anti ech #blarke wine club #long post

[foxymuses]

do it! share the spn opinions!

aight, but i aint gonna go super into detail here, okay, and i’m putting it under a cut just so people who don’t want to SEE THE SALT can avoid it, so this is your LAST WARNING don’t read further if you’re easily offended/have strong feelings about spn. also, i say it several times, but it should be enforced here that just because i dislike a character on the show does not mean i dislike someone’s portrayal. oftentimes, the tumblr rp world writes characters better than shows do and it redeems these characters in my eyes, so. keep that in mind

i can’t stand sam at all. i think he’s a whiny bitch baby and he gets far too much love in the show. i prefer the later seasons when dean becomes the plot focus. this isn’t because i like dean better (but i do), it’s honestly just so... like sam’s writing is so off putting and it grinds me. i usually skip episodes that are sam focused, and i very much can’t stand most of s3 and s4. i also don’t like soulless sam at all *** i usually adore sam rpers. this isn’t to say i hate the character. i hate the way he’s written in the show, but how tumblr people write him is the Right way and i love them for it

i Strongly Disliked s6 and s12. i can’t even tell you what happened in these seasons aside from a vague recollection. s8 is also a bit of a fog, but that’s mostly because s9 is when i started watching the show on tv so i sort of skipped through s8 to be ready for the premiere.

i will forever be salty that they did dean dirty at the end of s5. having him go to say yes then essentially being all ‘jk sam asked me not to so i wont’ will forever irritate me. like. they were all ‘no dean, you can’t say yes to michael’ and ready to lock him up for it, but then literally like an episode later were like ‘nah it’s cool if sam says yes though, whatever’

sort of following that, i really hate that sam is oftentimes implied to be the ‘stronger’ or ‘nicer’ brother. i think he’s a huge hypocrite and like. he causes so many problems, and he’s so mean to dean a lot of the time? but dean would do anything for him? that’s annoying

i did not like mary being brought back at all. that was random and made super little sense to the overall plot, and i did not like how she was written

i also don’t like jack. he seemed a kind of... mmm there’s a word for it. but like the writers seemed to just throw him in for the sake of a plot line, and he’s annoying and i don’t like how OP he is. again, most jack writers are better, but within the show realm, he annoys me to no end, as does the immediate like... love for him that everyone but dean has, and the pushy insistence that everyone shoves at dean to like jack as if he’s not the spawn of the devil

i dont even think this is controversial, but how they handled demon dean was Disappointing, and great part of the reason i stopped watching in s10 and didn’t catch up until i learned dean got possessed by michael FINALLY. but that disappointed me too, so. here we are, living on my blog with my own rules about the possessions and shit

can we talk about how dean’s ptsd is never addressed at all. 

uh, john was an abusive asshole. no forgiveness here. there’s no excuses ‘he was a drunk, he missed his wife, he wanted dean to survive’ no, he was an abusive asshole that royally fucked dean up for good, and i will have none of the john apologist bullshit here, thanks. bobby was more a father to dean than john ever would’ve been

don’t really care for the claire arc all that much. i like her with jody, and i like jody’s little family with alex too, but the arc for claire is just.. really odd

donna is incredibly annoying. i’ll keep saying it, but tumblr writers do her so much better. show donna just. ugh.

i wrote a post about it once, but the episode i Hate the most is on the head of a pin, and i won’t super go into detail, but that whole episode is s shit show and i Do Not acknowledge it happened, thanks

I THINK THERE’S MORE BUT I’M BLANKING

the samulet and handprint both still exist, thanks. there’s a post about it somewhere on one of my blogs that i should bring out again

can we stop treating dean as either an angry fisticuffs player or an overall childish goofball? he has more to him than that

i’m still bitter over the ruby arc, honestly. it annoyed me in all the wrong ways. we can just assume that i’m fine with ruby writers at this point, nothing i say in this list pertains to writers on tumblr, just the show

the god is chuck thing is fine, but the whole direction the show took with it after amara is just fucking bananas. i mean sure, what else could they end on other than a fight against god, but still. fucking bananas. lets go back to the days of ‘maybe chuck is god’ in like s5, yknow?

um can dean and cas just kiss now? or how about like several seasons ago, but starting in like s11, even though i adore cas a lot, he started to get a little irritating. again, show writing, not tumblr writing. but he kinda started to become like... high and mighty and it does not mesh well with things, i think

ben is dean’s son, i dont care what you say.

um im trying to go through the seasons in my head to remember things that annoy me and are controversial, and aren’t just things that spn needs to fix, like andy’s death (still bitter)

what was that crowley and blood addiction shit that happened in like s10 or something? what was that supposed to be? was that supposed to mean something i am so confused

um are the ghostfacers even still alive, like this isn’t salt, i’m just genuinely concerned because if they are, why aren’t they in more episodes please

yo, maybe because i write pride and chronos and whatever, but the treatment of non-chrisitan deities is absolute Shit, thanks. like i get that the show is going for the christian religion is the Main thing, because most people get it, but like. as someone genuinely interested in religion, the utter disdain for other religious entities or even the idea that all demons are bad demons simply because demons is ridiculous. show some love to other entities. like for fuck’s sake, you can’t just kill the god of time? what the fuck? some of these gods were around long before any recorded history of the christian god, so i guarantee you at least half of them could kick god’s butt and call it a day.

s9 mark of cain dean was the best, that’s the end of that argument

wtf with the gabe storyline what even, gabe deserved better

imma go so far as to say lucifer did too, that was a bunch of nonsense. all of it that happened after s5, it’s all bullshit

actually the only angel that deserved what they god was metatron, thanks, the asshole. 

also can we talk about death, like. dont get me wrong billie is cool, but i want my original pizza-loving death back please, he and dean had a cool thing going on. also tessa, can we bring back tessa

honestly rowena annoyed me in the beginning. she grew on me, but i feel like a lot of her character was forced. 

the dean and pie thing has gone a little too far at this point

*claps* i *claps* don’t *claps* like *claps* sam! literally half the things in this post are me dancing around this idea, but most of my salt for the show stems from my dislike of him. 

idek the general opinion on this, but i did Not like the crazy cas & meg situation. like all of that. it was weird. i mean i didn’t even really like meg, to be honest. but that whole arc was fucking weird, and that relationship (one kiss?) felt super forced.

actually can we stop having cas just. fucking switch personalities all the time? s4 cas was the best.

dean does Not put sam above everyone else. he will try to save sam, yes, but sam is not the most important person to dean, and dean will not choose sam above cas or bobby or charlie or jody or literally anyone.

IM RUNNING OUT OF THOUGHTS BUT I KNOW I HAVE MORE so. we’ll come back to this.

#;;fox answers #oops spilled the salt #i don't apologize for anything #Anonymous #delivered

[thatesqcrush]

Long Way Home, Ch. 4

Rafael x Reader. AU; SVU x Good Wife. Set post s5 Good Wife, Dramatics Your Honor. References: s3, e.21 of TGW, with some dialogue borrowed from the episode itself. CW: continued angst, pregnancy talk.

***

Rafael entered his apartment with a heavy sigh of exhaustion. He tossed his leather briefcase to the side, and slipped off his suit jacket.

He slipped off his suspenders and undid his tie. Walking over to his bar cart, he poured himself a glass of scotch. He let the alcohol swirl around in his mouth before swallowing. Reaching into his pocket, he pulled out his cellphone. He swore he wouldn’t do it, but curiosity’s got the better of him, and he looked up Will Gardner.

Hot Shot Lawyer Gunned Down in Court

Chicago Prominent Attorney Murdered

Attorney Shot and Killed, The Suspect Is a Longtime Client

Killer Jeffrey Grant Sentenced in Lawyer Death

The Downfall of the Gardners

The last headline caught Rafael’s eye the most and he clicked on it. Splashed on the screen was a picture of you, smiling, looking up at Will, a glass of wine in your hand.

Whomever wrote the article did a shoddy job, just gleaning highlights of your career, painting you as more of someone riding Will’s coattails. “Hmph,” Rafael huffed, knowing how impressive your resume was.

Rafael enjoyed working with you. You were clever, smart, and when you did let your guard down, he thought you had the most beautiful laugh.

The last time Rafael let anyone get close to him, it was Yelina and she shattered his heart. Rafael threw himself into his work instead. He thought back of that day where he met you in the park with Noah. You were stunning and had him completely enchanted.

But Rafael couldn’t do anything about it. It wasn’t just ethics. Grief, he knew, after his father’s death, was a beast. Rafael wasn’t sure how he would even approach you, even if he would allow himself. More so, he wanted to be respectful; you hadn’t even told him about Will.

Exhausted, Rafael made his way to his bedroom. Stripping down to his boxers, he turned down the sheets and climbed into bed. After a few minutes of tossing and turning, Rafael sat up, kicked off the sheets and reached into his boxers, seeking relief. Release came quickly, with your name on Rafael’s lips.

****

You groaned as you emptied the contents of your stomach once more. Beads of sweat rolled down your face as you reached for some toilet paper to wipe your mouth. You shivered as your sweaty skin touched the cold tile wall. Blowing your nose, you eyed the box of tampons that sat on the top of the toilet tank. You did some quick math in your head, and realized you couldn’t remember when you last had your period.

Panic began to form and before you could even fathom the possibility of pregnancy, your stomach recoiled again and you began to heave into the toilet once more.

The retching eventually stopped. You splashed cold water on your face and rinsed your mouth to get the awful taste out of your mouth.

Exhausted, you made a mental note to pick up a pregnancy test on the way home fromt the office before climbing back into bed.

****

Later that morning, you sat in your office, going through the copies of the evidence. A knock on the door stirred you. Pushing a strand from your face, you smiled at the handsome ADA leaning against the doorway, holding two large cups of coffee.

“How’s it going?” Rafael questioned, offering you a coffee.

Taking the coffee, you nodded with a bit of a shrug. “Okay; I think I found some stuff that may help us.” You took a sip of the coffee and frowned at your stomach lurching again. It didn’t slip past Rafael.

“You okay?” Rafael asked, before taking another sip of coffee.

“Yeah, I think I am just coming down with something,” you lied. “Thanks for the coffee.” You turned the papers in front of you towards Rafael. “There were these four receipts; four purchases, all on Terri Rooney's credit card the day after her death. And, more importantly, the day after Patrick Rooney was in custody.”

“Meaning Patrick Rooney wasn’t the killer,” Rafael murmured. “So where were these during the trial?”

“I don’t know,” you replied grimacing while taking another sip of coffee. “I want to talk with Judge Cuesta’s lead investigator at the time. Maybe his co-counsel at the time too. Because Cuesta should have been privy to this; I am sure he carried a huge caseload and even if he was overwhelmed, he would have had to at least pharm this out to his co-counsel.”

“So it’s either on Cuesta, which gets him removed for prosecutorial blindness, or on his co-counsel, which gets Cuesta off,” Rafael replied, now standing, heading to leave. “Good job, keep me posted. I’ve got court in an hour.”

Rafael winked at you as he left and you felt yourself blush. From the time you met him, you felt comfortable in his presence. He had a sharp tongue and a dry wit about him that reminded you of your former husband. You found yourself eyeing Rafael’s frame, focusing on his backside. Shaking your head back into reality, you reminded yourself to focus on the case at hand, and to pick up that pregnancy test.

***

Later that afternoon, you headed out from One Hogan Place, and made your way down the subway. It wasn’t long before you made your way to your destination. You looked at the paper in your hand; the address was correct. You entered the small wine shop, cautiously. “Hello? I am looking for Mara Stokes.”

“Can I help you?” asked an older woman with blonde hair. She ran her hands over her apron and smiled before squinting and looking at you more inquisitively. “You prosecution or defense?”

“I'm sorry?” You replied, a bit taken aback at her line of questioning.

“When I heard that Cuesta's head was on the chopping block, I figured one of you would come look his investigator up,” Mara replied.

“Then maybe you could help me,” you replied, shoving your hands in your back pockets. “Did Cuesta bend the rules to get a conviction on Patrick Rooney?”

Mara sighed. “Maybe. Cuesta fancied himself a true public servant.”

You nodded, frowning. “How was his co-counsel?”

“John Bullock?” Mara questioned rhetorically. “Nice guy, smart as a whip; I think he became a judge too after Cuesta. Both were gonna nail Patrick Rooney, come hell or high water.”

“Thanks, that helps,” you replied handing Mara your business card. “Here’s my card if you think of anything else.”

Mara nodded, before turning away. Taking out your phone, you called Rafael.

****

That evening you were in Rafael’s office going through your meeting with Mara.

“I think Cuesta, Bullock - they all had prosecutorial blinders on. They needed to pad their wins so that they could eventually get on the bench.”

Rafael nodded, running his hands through his hair. “Assholes,” he swore, taking off his jacket and rolling up his sleeves. “Patrick Rooney did nothing wrong and he spent twenty years in prison for it. He had his wife snatched from him and then he was accused of her murder. All so these two could get secure their careers,” he seethed.

Rafael was so angry, you could hear his voice shake. “Yeah,” you replied quietly. “What are we going to do?”

“They nailed Rooney; so we are going to nail them right back,” Rafael replied. “I want to bring them both in, but separately. They’ll have their lawyers.”

You nodded, taking down notes.

Rafael looked over at you, your head was lowered and you were scribbling furiously. He took a deep breath before he spoke again. “Amanda told me.”

You stopped and looked up. “About what?” you questioned but you knew that Rafael knew.

“I’m sorry for your loss,” Rafael replied. “I can’t imagine...” he began but you cut him off.

“That’s right,” you began, your face getting hot. “You don’t know, so please, save me your pity.”

“I...,” Rafael began softly, sitting on the corner of his desk. He leaned over and reached out to clasp your hand. You felt a bit of a jolt of Rafael’s hand touching yours and you stared deeply into his green eyes. “I just wish...”

You felt a pang of loneliness. You were pretty sure it was evident on your face. As you stood, Rafael’s hand never left yours. Instead, he tugged you close to him. Your bodies were millimeters apart. Rafael brushed the strand of hair that had fallen across your face again, pushing it out of the way.

Studying Rafael closely, you could see their was some pain behind his eyes. “Wish what?” You asked quietly, your eyes now focused on his lips. You swallowed hard.

Rather than answer you, Rafael closed the distance between you and pressed his lips against yours. Throwing caution to the wind, you kissed him back, wrapping your arms around his neck. The kiss grew with intensity and you both made way to his couch.

That pregnancy test would have to wait.

#rafael barba and reader #barba and reader #rafael barba fanfic #svu x the good wife #svu goodwife crossover #svu x goodwife #goodwife au #svu au #my fics #my writing

[twdmusicboxmystery]

FTWD 4x16: Analysis

So, who watched the finale of FTWD? I really liked it, even though it ended differently than I thought it would. But I’ll get to that in a minute. Let’s get to all the awesome parallels and symbols.

***As always, spoilers abound for FTWD 4x16. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

So, we had Al escape the hospital at the beginning. I first want to say that it struck me as a possible parallel to how Madison survived. All was surrounded by a horde of walkers, coming at her from all sides, and she just kept looking around until she found a means of escape. In this case, a gated alley. I was just thinking that there were tons of chairs, doors, passages, and steps in that stadium, so something very similar could have happened with Madison.

Beyond that, Al left the HOSPITAL in a POLICE CRUISER. Really? Once again, the parallels are so close, it’s ridiculous. Remember that Emily was seen driving a police cruiser (one of the Grady cop cars) out of the hospital. That’s part of the footage they shot in S5 that we’ve never seen. So we’re relative sure that when she leaves Grady for good, it will be in a police car. Now we have Al doing the same here. I’ll leave analysis of the squad car’s license plate for @wdway, who’s the master at that.

In the opening credits, we see a lot of water and what I thought was a hospital in the background. By the end of the episode, we realize it’s not the hospital. It’s the denim factory where they’re setting up shop.

The group finds Al—oh, she’d passed out from being hit in the head, btw—and are deciding to get on the road to Virginia the next day. 

When Al woke up, they even did a close up shot of her eyes fluttering open, just like they did with Beth at Grady. 

They actually use the phrase, “we hit the road at dawn.” (New Dawn Theory).

Morgan decides he wants to go find Martha and try to save her. He promises he’ll meet them at Alexandria, but John says they’ll wait for him at the truck stop, and Morgan says he’ll be there. I made note of these statements because they’re dialogue foreshadows. Morgan promised he would get back to the truck stop…and he did. Dialogue foreshadow fulfilled. Because of that, it’s also very important that they first talked about meeting in Alexandria. They could have just left that bit out and decided to meet at the truck stop, you know? I’ll come back to that.

I loved when John said to June, “It doesn’t take a whole day to recognize sunshine.” Not only was it sweet and romantic, the sun is definitely a Bethyl theme. They said on TTD that Garrett Dillihunt actually wrote/improvised the line. When they said that, the entire audience “awwwwed.”

Then comes the next major round of parallels. He finds Jim in the back seat of the police cruiser. 

Think about that. Jim is a dude who died back at the hospital, but of course reanimated as a walker. Then Morgan finds him in the back of a Grady-like police car. That’s pretty much what I’ve ALWAYS thought happened with Beth: that Morgan found her and took her back to Grady. To extend the metaphor, he finds an injured Martha and takes her (or starts to) take her to where she can get medical treatment.

Then we have the antifreeze stuff at the truck stop. This was GREAT! I still haven’t done a coolant post, though I reblogged @frangipanilove’s post that talks about it.

So the antifreeze first caught my eye. Then we find out that Martha put antifreeze in the water, poisoning them. (I talked a little about the poisoned water theme HERE.) And THEN it turns out that the antidote for the antifreeze poisoning is ethanol, or just an alcoholic beverage. Guys, this is a perfect example of the Daryl = Fire, Beth = Water theme. The coolant represents water, and the thing that levels out its negative affects is alcohol. Which burns. Which Beth and Daryl used to burn the moonshine shack. I love it!

Martha purposely gets herself bitten so that Morgan can’t save her. Yeah, that woman is crazy. He ends up handcuffing her to the car so that when she turns, she can’t go off and bite people. That caught my eye at first because cuffing her by one hand is a parallel to Merle in S1 on the rooftop, as well as to the empty handcuff Daryl found in S8.

Then, when Morgan goes back after rescuing the others, he finds that her arm has ripped off. Can we all say Merle? Okay, he purposely cut his arm off because he was trying to stay alive, where she died and her arm got ripped off because she was a walker, but still. The parallel is there.

We see Morgan on a bridge briefly. He gets Jim’s Augie’s Ale truck and saves the day. I thought that was interesting because Jim saved them twice. Even though he died, and wasn’t on the show long, he had a huge impact on the plot.

Near the end, Luciana says, “I get it.” Beth line.

We also saw Morgan go into the bathroom to wash Martha’s words off his forehead. They talked on TTD about how it was symbolic of him finally becoming “unstuck” from his way of thinking. He’s finally free of his psychological barriers and can move forward in a positive way. 

I think that works well with the bathroom/toilet paper theory because the bathroom stuff often has to do with escaping prisons. This was just a psychological, rather than physical prison.

Martha is buried. Once again, everyone gets a burial except Beth.

Morgan did find his way back to people, so as I talked about before, that dialogue foreshadow (which came from Rick, btw) came true.

In terms of the plot, they didn’t head to VA at the end. Rather, they decide to stay and set up shop where they are. 

Now, that does explain the fact that they’ve already green-lighted a 5th season. And I almost seems like maybe Morgan won’t go back to Alexandria, but I think he will. Eventually. Remember what I said earlier about how they talked about meeting in Alexandria. I think that was a foreshadow and it just may take a few seasons to actually happen. I did enjoy this episode, though. It ended on a hopeful not.

TTD was kind of interesting. 

I don’t have a lot to say in terms of the episode of specifically TD stuff, but there were still some interesting things.

First, Gimple clarified his job. He said a lot of people think he lost his job, and that’s definitely true (that people think that, I mean). I can’t tell you how many people were happy he was “fired” and claimed AMC got rid of him because he killed off Carl, lol. It’s an absurd claim anyway, but they simply wouldn’t listen to reason. So I’m glad Gimple clarified that he actually has been promoted. He works on both shows and also other aspects of the TWD universe.

Plus, he teased that something else big is coming soon. Hmm.

The only other thing I found interesting was that he was talking about how they (the writers) are purposely vague when they’re on TTD and when they give interviews and such. He made the joke that he’d just heard the FTWD show runner be very vague and was so proud of him, lol. (Btw, the thing he was vague about was whether or not we’ll see more of Al’s interview tapes, so obviously we will.) But the point is that he admitted they have to be as vague as possible and they strive to do that so they aren’t giving anything away, even though they know absolutely everything that’s coming.

Just saying. ;D

I think that’s all I have. Anyone see anything I missed? Can’t wait for the TWD premiere next week!  

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theorie #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

[theclacks]

Buffy Thoughts - Season 6

I’m splitting up my Angel Season 3 thoughts into a different post because I have too many feelings this time to cram them both together. In summary though...

Me at the beginning of season 6:

Me at the end of season 6:

Previous Seasonal Recaps: BtVS S1+S2, BtVS S3, BtVS S4 + AtS S1, BtVS S5 + AtS S2

Previous Episodic Recaps: S6E1-3, S6E15, S6E16, S6E18, S619, S6E20-E21

On Overall Thoughts

The was by far the weirdest season of any show I've ever watched, and that includes season 4 of Battlestar Galactica. A couple people have commented on my smaller, episode recaps that apparently there was disagreement in the writer’s room? And boy does that explain a lot because yeah. Tonal dissonance out the wazoo.

I liked the juxtaposition of smaller villains in contrast with the huge internal problems the characters were going through. And ultimately, had it been executed with a more solid vision, I think this might have been one of my favorite seasons because at the end of the day I kind of love soap operas in the vein of Downton Abbey and Gossip Girl, and season six was a soap opera but with punching. And vampires. And death.

And regardless of me simultaneously hating episodes and loving episodes, it was definitely the most INVOLVED I've been with the show thus far. I mean, I wrote six or seven "per episode" recaps? I POSTED A GIF OF “EVERYTHING IS AWESOME” SAYING “SEASON SIX DO YOUR WORST” AND THEN IN THE VERY FUCKING NEXT EPISODE TARA DIES AND SPIKE TRIES TO RAPE BUFFY. I ASSUME ALL YOUR GUYS’ “LIKES” ON THAT POST WERE MADE IN SAD, CRUEL IRONY.

I think a lot of Buffy’s depression was solid because it really hit close to home, “Going Through the Motions” in particular.

There was a good comment in one of the AV Club reviews in that the season itself is super meta because Buffy died and the show itself was supposed to be cancelled. Her resurrection was the show’s resurrection, so in a lot of ways this season was more like a sequel to Buffy than the next season? And it was a kind of “what now?” sequel, where there weren’t any good answers and life just kind of sucks sometimes.

Well, a lot of times.

But because a lot of it hits painfully close to home, like The Body, it's something that I’m not entirely sure how many time I want to rewatch.

So yeah. I’m going to go through character by character thoughts, then do a thing on general inconsistencies and plot holes that bugged me, and then do predictions for Season 7, and I’ll be done.

On the Trio

I loved them as villains. Their bumbling methods give a perfect excuse for why they're in some episodes and why in others they're not. (Contrast this to Adam in season 4 who just sort of “took a break” a lot of times.)

Plus, there can't always be escalating threats. After Glory, they were going to do... what? An even more powerful God? Going with a more down to earth threat gives room for other emotional arcs to breathe, and at the end of the day they ended up being more deadly than the villains of Season 4 and Season 5 (RIP Tara).

Also, I loved how they maintained their separate personalities. I loved that Jonathan was the most sympathetic, but that also he wasn't "good" either.

On Giles

I get actor contracts and needing to write him out, and the writers tried to smooth it over with him and Buffy sharing a hysterical laugh in the finale, but I still think Giles should've been chewed out

I mean, a watcher’s job is to take care of his slayer. Yes, Buffy’s an adult now, but she’s just come back from heaven. She showed suicidal impulses in Once More With Feeling, she would’ve committed suicide in OMWF if Spike hadn’t stopped her so WHY would Giles be all "i should go so that she can stand on her own feet." Like HOLY SHIT, there is a middle ground between enabling her out and FUCKING ABANDONING HER.

Also, he said he left so that Buffy took better care of Dawn, but guess WHAT? DAWN STILL GOT FUCKING IGNORED.

On Dawn

Dawn is the best. I love Dawn. I don't care if other people think she's "whiny,” I love her. Steal all the shit you want girl, it's not like people will notice until they've been magically stuck in a house with you for 48+ hours.

Which is ironic because I went into season 5 thinking I was going to hate her and now she’s in my top three faves with Spike and Anya.

I love her continued bro-ness with Spike. I think the very first episode of Season 6 was my favorite (more on that later) just because her friendship and brotherly bond with Spike just BLED through the screen... even though their screentime took a major hit when Buffy and Spike started their affair.

Also I like that her character arc was basically "please notice me, i'm still a character even though i'm no longer a plot point.” Because that’s a common flaw in ensemble shows when plot point character no longer become plot points. Also like, yeah, maybe it's annoying but being ignored and feeling inadequate is also a huge part of what being a little sister is like.

And the episode where they all got stuck in the house together was a FUN episode in a sea of NOT FUN episodes, so four for you, Dawn Summers, you go Dawn Summers.

On Anya

My fave, my love.

I like that everyone was banking on her to ditch Xander, for her to have cold feet at their wedding, but it ended up being the other way around.

However my thoughts on Anya’s character arc this season are mixed because although I loved her becoming a vengeance demon again, that pretty much WAS her character arc. Everyone episode leading up to Hell’s Bells was filler for her. Like emotionally she didn’t change from Bargaining: Part One until the altar.

BUT, Anya and Spike drinking together and being bros in Entropy was by far... well, my second favorite part of the latter half of season six. (My favorite being the wedding conversation Spike and Buffy have.) And I still stand by what I said in my episodic reviews that Xander left HER at the altar, so she owned him nothing and deserved NONE of his "how could you do this?!!?" chewouts whatsoever.

Which, speaking of Xander…

On Xander

I appreciate what the writers tried to do with him this season, but I didn't like the execution.

Like yes, he's the guy normal and had RIDICULOUS pressure on him in the sense that he's the ONLY one in the group who never has, had, or eventually received super powers, and there's definitely something to be said for the decision to keep him that way. Also, I liked how he was used in the finale, how he was the one who calmed willow down with their mutual friendship…. HOWEVER

That friendship bond was built on past seasons of interaction, not this one. Willow and Xander didn’t interact at all this season. (Or it was so minor I already forgot.) And, sure, you can argue that that’s the point, that the strength and tragedy of their bond is how old it is despite how neglected it’s become, but it’s my personal view that seasons should be somewhat self-contained? Or at least they should be given the way Buffy handles its seasons.

Because yeah. This season, Xander’s only scenes were worries with Anya, snippiness at Spike, and occasional worries with Buffy. He didn’t interact with Dawn or Willow or Tara or even Giles when Giles was still in the picture. Xander was just flat and rather unlikeable this season.

On Tara

I talked about Tara's death in my Seeing Red recap, so I'll leave this one note here.

I don’t think Tara was ever a fully developed character. She was a really good love interest, but the writers never let her blossom and play off the other characters.

And THAT was the most annoying thing about her death because SHE WAS JUST STARTING TO BLOSSOM.

Through the Spuffy affair, she got her own relationship with Buffy as level-headed confidant. She got her own relationship with Dawn as motherly aunt. And I wish they would've kept going that direction because Tara without Willow was really cool.

On Willow

I loved Willow's arc this season. It was my favorite arc because it was consistent, well-executed (ignoring the brief “drugs are bad, m’kay” episode), had a clear beginning, turning point, dive off a cliff, struggle back to calm floating, and then dive off a EVEN BIGGER APOCALYPTIC cliff.

Like, if all of the other plots lines had been as strong as Willow’s, I think this could've been my favorite season.

Unfortunately Xander/Anya and Dawn's were a little too shallow, so they had a lot of "filler" episodes for their characters. And Spike and Buffy’s were all over the place, bouncing back and forth thematically.

That said, I looking forward to seeing Willow's recovery in season 7.

On Buffy's situation and how it could've been avoided

I really don't know how to talk about Buffy herself, so instead I’m going to talk about her situation and how I think a significant portion of Buffy’s stress and angst this season was on her friends TOTALLY dropping the ball.

Let’s start with finances.

Willow and Tara can start paying some fucking rent, thank you. I don't care if they don’t have jobs, they were obviously paying for their dorm rooms somehow, they can pay for part of buffy's mortgage.

AND IF THEY CAN'T PAY RENT, THEY SHOULD GET PART TIME JOBS ALONGSIDE BUFFY. Lots of college kids have them. Just because they’re going to class and Buffy’s not isn’t an excuse. It's like "SORRY BUFFY, WE’RE TOO BUSY TO HAVE JOBS BECAUSE OUR TIME IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOURS EVEN THOUGH YOU TECHNICALLY ALREADY HAVE A FULL TIME JOB AS THE SLAYER" like jesus christ, Willow and Tara.

But even that, I could chalk up as Willow and Tara not thinking/being immature if it hadn’t been for Giles backing up their mindset. Like Giles gets a stipend for being a watcher. Why doesn't Buffy get a stipend for being a slayer? Have other slayers in history needed to support themselves with minimum wage jobs? WHY DIDN'T GILES GET WILLOW AND TARA TO PAY THEIR PART OF THE RENT?

Also Buffy’s dad and child support. GILES, SHE’S TAKING CARE OF A MINOR. AT LEAST HELP HER GO TO COURT AND CLAIM CHILD SUPPORT.

Like, just, fucking support group some of this stuff people.

Season 6 acted like it was just Buffy's mental state that made everything so shitty, and yes, it was, but everyone else continuously dropping the ball until Buffy got buried in a sea of dropped balls didn’t exactly help things either.

So yeah, on behalf of Buffy, "fuck you, all the other scoobies of season six". 

Except Anya. Anya did nothing wrong.

On Spike

Because I've talked loads about him in other recaps, I’m going to move straight past his season six stuff and talk about his arc going forward.

Because OH MY GOD that ending.

HIS SOUL.

I thought I’d gotten spoiled for season 6′s ending. Turns out I got spoiled for season 7′s re: the hellmouth opening. Because yeah, I kept waiting for evil!Willow to open the hellmouth and then she pulled up the temple instead and I started getting SO confused, and then Spike was in Africa and asking to go back the way he was and I'd ALSO gotten spoilered for Spike getting his chip out and I thought THAT'D be the big thing, which didn’t seem like it was big enough for giant Africa sidequest and then boom

SOUL.

But at the same time, I can't see Spike acting much different with it. Like my favorite parallel/difference with Spike and Angel is that Angel does a complete personality flip with or without his soul. Like total good vs total evil. But Spike is already grey. And I really like the idea of his causing him to flip... to more grey.

Like when Spike comes back to Sunnydale, will the other characters even know the difference? I'm predicting they won't. Im predicting he's going to hide it from them and then it's going to be a WHAM moment or something around episode 5… or 6… or 7? IDK, one of those. The show likes its WHAM moments between episodes 5 and 7.

Also, I have no idea if Spike’s going to get back together with Buffy? I'm thinking not based on the tone of posts i've seen, and also because season 6 is THE talked about season, so season 7 will be mellower? IDK.

But then, I've also seen spoiler screencaps of them just chillin' and honestly Buffy and Spike just chillin' and being at peace/trust with each other means WAY more to me than angsty sex and being physically together. Like, I just want them supporting each other and joking and making each other smile and groan and all that fluffy shit… and then occasionally fist fighting themselves into the dirt because Spike and Buffy.

I will though end on one very annoyed Spike rant, which is the writers insisting that Spike’s evil because he only ever did good things because he loved Buffy/wanted to get into her pants, to which I say BULLSHIT.

Go back to Bargaining: Part One. Buffy was DEAD. Stone cold DEAD. And she had been for five months. Spike was still taking care of Dawn for her. He was following her wishes. He knew she wasn’t coming back. He knew he no longer had a “shot” with her. And yet he did the things she would’ve wanted him to do because it was selfless fucking LOVE, and I think that more than anything else was what frustrated me the most about this whole season. Because although I’m looking forward to what souled!Spike entails, I don’t think he needed it.

Anyways.

Results of Predictions for Season 6 Finale

- Willow gets de-evil!Willow-fied (CHECK)

- Clem lives (CHECK)

- Anya lives (CHECK)

- Spike comes back to Sunnydale because otherwise wtf is the point of his mystical quest thing (NO CHECK)

- Jonathan lives  (CHECK)

- Giles gets chewed out for leaving ONE EPISODE AFTER BUFFY REVEALED SHE WAS SUICIDAL like come on wtf  (HE APOLOGIES, BUT STILL... NO CHECK)

- Dawn and Spike have one more moment of being bros. I don’t even care about Spike and Buffy anymore. Just let me have Dawn and Spike being bros (I COUNT DAWN BAITING XANDER, SAYING “SPIKE WOULD’VE DONE IT” AS A BRO MOMENT. CHECK)

Predictions for Season 7

- Spike comes back to Sunnydale and becomes tentative friendship bros with Buffy with continual underlying UST that's never resolved again because of the attempted rape and also because none of my ships can ever be happy

- Dawn and Spike eventually work through his attempted rape and become bros again

- Dawn takes a level in badassery, will fight things

- Buffy's perma-death/rebirth will be addressed re: slayer chain of dead slayers leading to new slayer

- Anya stays a vengeance demon because fuck Xander

- Willow finds a happy place between using no magic whatsoever and trying to fry the earth

- Giles hangs out in Sunnydale again because Giles

- Anya stays in command of the magic shop because it's her magic shop… even though Willow kind of destroyed it

- Clem continues to have cameos because he's Clem and he's awesome

#buffy the vampire slayer #btvs #buffy season 6 #buffy #///// #clacks from theclacks

[milady-milord-lj]

Community Re-Watch Season 1: Advanced Criminal Law and Social Psychology

Community Re-Watch:  Season 1 Hello everyone! Once again, watching in intended order. Which means this week we've got "Advanced Criminal Law" and "Social Psychology" (yes in that order). Advanced Criminal Law

Commentary by Dan Harmon, Joel McHale, Gillian Jacobs, and Andrew Guest (co-writer with Dan)

Dan says the script for this episode was pretty much written on-set. Andrew confirms that the script went through a lot of changes. There was originally a secondary story involving Professor Duncan. According to Dan, Duncan just had a paper published called “Born to Leave,” which was about why women always leave men. Andrew clarifies that the comedy about the paper was that it was clearly Duncan publicly grinding an axe.

Dan says that a lot of people didn’t get the exchange between Jeff and Duncan where they talk “in code” using sitcom titles. Joel is kind of shocked by that statement.

Dan admits that Abed is loosely based on a friend of his (side note:  original Abed did make an appearance as one of the custodians during S5 in “Analysis of Cork-based Networking). He said Original Abed (the guy’s name is actually Abed) is incredulous. That was the basis of the Abed-Troy storyline in this episode. Joel points out that Original Abed actually read for the part of Fictional Abed.

Starburns’s first line in the entire series is said in Spanish class. It’s, “My name is Alex, dude.” According to Dan, this exchange was originally longer and descended into a huge argument between Chan and Starburns. Unfortunately, NBC hated the argument and it got cut as a result.

Gillian said during the day they were shooting in the Spanish class, Ken Jeong was doing a lot of Andrew Dice Clay impressions.

Joel actually doesn’t remember which episode he’s commenting on. He sheepishly admits that during the break when no one is talking he was quickly looking up on his phone to see which episode it was.

Dan once again repeats that this is one of the episodes where Jeff gets his one-on-one with each character in the study group. This episode is meant to be Jeff’s one-on-one with Britta. This is the episode where we discover that Britta is a character who cuts and runs “because she’s a skank.” Gillian cheerfully agrees that Britta is a skank-y, cheating, ‘ho, “which is what the people want.” Dan assures Gillian that she is selling herself short, and that he is in negotiations about that stuff with “the people.”

Dan says there were multiple re-shot scenes between Pierce and Annie at the piano while Pierce is trying to write a school song for Greendale. He mentions that some of the scenes will be included in the DVD extras. The point was to say something about Pierce (not Annie, apparently). Dan repeats that Pierce is Dan’s avatar representing him as an artist. Namely, that he’ll shut himself up in a room and procrastinate, then go around and lie about what a genius he is.

Joel notes that Alison’s neck is bright red in the scene where Chang threatens to flunk the class unless the cheater comes forward. Gillian points out that it’s because Alison just screamed. Joel asks Gillian if the same thing happens to her, and Gillian confirms that it does. She adds that she bruises very easily.

Gillian says that during the scene where the class throws balled up paper at her, some of the extras in the scene whipped the balls at her pretty hard. Dan admits that he ended up debating the scene with Joe Russo during editing. Joe wanted a beat before people starting flinging paper at her, and Dan wanted it to happen right away. Dan won.

Joel calls the scene where Jeff approaches Britta in the Cafetorium as “the battle of the awesome coats.”

Dan asks if Joel was the one who ad-libbed the line that a dirty bum is higher on the totem pole than Britta. Joel and Gillian say that the line was actually in the script.

Dan says that Jeff is based on a combination of his friends. In addition, Jeff Winger is both the voice of “the dorky writer who created him” and Joel McHale. He credits McHale with really highlighting Jeff’s “pomposity, narcissism, and shallowness.” (Umm, compliment? I guess?)

Dan says the dirty bum line to Britta was the point at which he realized that they had managed to successfully create a very flawed character as their Jeff protagonist and they had to commit to it.

Andrew says that there are a couple of different versions of the Jeff-Britta conversation that were put into the script, but that writer Neil Goldman was the one who locked it down to its current form.

Andrew also says that writer Hillary Winston came up with Britta storyline, and that she came into the writers’ room with the plot almost fully formed before they even wrote the script. Dan confirmed the storyline was Hillary’s. Although he adds that he always had the idea in his head that he wanted to do a trial storyline where the trial takes place next to a swimming pool. He notes that if the idea had come from Joe Russo, it might get shot down as being too expensive. But because Dan wanted to do it, people were willing to make it happen.

The pool-side trial was apparently a long day of filming. Gillian points out that on that day, Alison was on-set for 16 hours, and only worked for a half-hour. Turns out, Alison had a scene as a witness at the trial, and she ended up being cut from the final version of the script/episode.

Dan says that part of it was that when he went down to the set, he thought the pool-side trial scenes weren’t working. So he and Andrew basically sat on the bleachers and re-wrote the trial scenes. Then they were printing out the re-written pages to give to the actors, while they were still shooting the original script. Andrew jokes, “It’s really not the way you want to work.”

Gillian points out the guy diving into the pool in the background at the end of the first pool-trial scene made that dive 30 times.

Dan says the scenes between Annie and Pierce were originally much darker in tone. All of the scenes had to be reshot because NBC because they felt the scenes were too dark. Dan admits that NBC may have had a valid point. However, he says that the whole point of the Annie-Pierce storyline was to “find the Pierce character” that both Dan and Chevy would be happy with.

Dan goes off on a tangent and says that Chevy basically wanted to be Fletch. Dan’s argument was that Pierce wasn’t Fletch, he was meant to be a buffoon and that Chevy had been warned that Pierce was the target of jokes. But Chevy insisted that he wanted to be “Fletch-y and sexy.” So the Pierce-Annie storyline was Dan’s attempt at finding a happy medium. Pierce was written to be an angry character because he’s not getting what he wants in life.

Dan says in the original scenes between Pierce and Annie, Pierce is very abusive towards Annie throughout their storyline. In the final piano room scene between the two of them, Annie snaps and dresses down Pierce. Actual Dan quote describing the original scene where Annie finally confronts Pierce:  “You know why you have seven wives? Because everyone who gets close to you, you shit on them. Now I’m one of one of those people, and I accidentally thought you were a decent guy. Now I’m out of here too, and that’s just the way it is.” As Dan put it, Annie was supposed to be Pierce’s first real friend. Dan admits that the storyline was inspired by Malcolm in the Middle.

Back at poolside again, Gillian says she got great joy out of the seeing posters of the Human Being in his swimming form. Andrew adds that the art department did an amazing job on the set. Both Joel and Gillian pipe up and say that the set was infested by very large cockroaches.

Gillian says that it was her idea to crawl up onto the platform to give Britta’s testimony. Joel says he thought it was kind of adorable.

Dan says that he had a real problem with Gillian’s boots. Gillian adds that he seemed upset that she was wearing heels. Dan counters that he has a problem with dishonesty, and it seems to him that if someone is short they should own it. He had a hard time wrapping his head around why someone like Britta would wear high-heeled boots, because Britta was supposed to be a character that represented practicality and honesty. So, why is Britta stumbling around on stilts? Gillian interrupts and says it’s because she’s not very good at walking in heels.

Andrew points out that this is the first episode where the writers actually address Britta’s character. Gillian agrees that this is the first episode where you see Britta is flawed (Ummm, did we forget Britta admitting to being a hypocrite in “Spanish 101?”).

Dan says that this episode is one of his favorite episodes, however, it’s also an episode that had a huge number of problems during production and post-production. There was “political” pressure on him, plus a lot of second-guessing and over-correction. For example, a lot of the act breaks got shuffled around in the edit bay to improve the flow of the episode, so as a result none of the act breaks we see are the original act breaks in the script, which seems to drive him crazy. In short, filming and putting this episode was, in Dan’s word, “a mess.” Plus he was in the middle of the learning curve of learning to work with his team and the network. There was not enough confidence on his part.

Gillian says that both she and Joel got to really enjoy watching Jim Rash, John Oliver, and Ken do improve during the poolside-trial scenes. She says that it was like being at a comedy show that never ended.

Joel says the shower scene between Chang and Duncan and Jeff and Britta was shot about 20 minutes before they were about to be thrown out of the pool. Gillian says that both scenes were shot very quickly, with only two takes for each scene.

Dan calls Gillian’s acting in the scene between her and Jeff “brilliant.”Dan thinks that looking back at the Jeff-Britta scene after 25 episodes of pounding on Britta by pointing out that she’s humorless and joyless, you realize in this scene that Britta is “a crazy person.” He says that Gillian’s performance informs that realization, because it’s “so real.” Britta is the character on Gilligan’s Island who sticks out because she’s different from “all these sitcom characters.”

Andrew says that the Jeff-Britta scene was shot at the end of a 16-hour day and Joe basically had to tell Gillian, “Okay, this is your big scene!” Gillian repeats that they had to do the scene in two takes.

Dan’s still complaining about act breaks.

First appearance of Leonard (By the fabulous Richard Erdman! I recommend you see him in one of his most famous roles in Stalag 17. Great movie! Somehow it served as the inspiration of Hogan’s Heroes. If you squint, you can kind of see it.).

Everyone talks about how Dan almost drowned Richard. Gillian says it was fascinating to see two people swim out with Richard to guide him to his mark and then he’d sink about five inches down the second they let him go. Dan says “the legend” is that Richard had to do 20 takes of his “Busted!” line, but the thing is, he nailed it on his first take while Dan was in the bathroom. And then when Dan came back, he kept asking for more takes. Eventually, the first assistant director took Dan aside and said, “He’s going to drown!” Dan admits that the ended up using his first take. Gillian starts laughing that Richard is basically “eating water” during his scene.

Dan starts singing Richard’s praises and urges people to look him up on IMDb to see what he’s acted in and what he’s directed. He’s basically a museum of early television and a living legend. Gillian says that Richard was Marlon Brando’s roommate at one point when they were both starting out in Hollywood. Dan says everyone on the set should salute Richard when he comes on set. Gillian says he’s always in a good mood, and is always happy to be there.

Gillian says that she loved watching Danny shoot his scene where he’s pretending to be an alien communicating with his home world. She says that for the “alien twin,” Danny insisted that make-up draw in his eyebrows really heavy so he’d have a more alien look.

Dan says the scene between where Troy confronts Abed about trying to fool him into thinking he is an alien was re-shot as well. Originally Troy bought it, but Dan thought it was too implausible that Troy would think Abed was an alien. Andrew jokes that now the writers know Troy well enough that they’d probably go for the original storyline.

Dan says that in the first season of any freshman show, everyone involved has the correct feeling that it’s their job to save the show. This sometimes leads to the equivalent of a car crash at a four-waystop. But the thing is, everyone is right because it is everyone’s job to save the show. So everyone has to learn to work together. Eventually people learn over time. But early on “you think you’re writing the Constitution and everyone if Thomas Jefferson.”

Gillian says that Chevy loves playing the piano. Joel adds that he’s actually very good at it.

Dan clearly isn’t feeling the scenes between Annie and Pierce and calls them “watered-down.” However, he adds that writer Liz Cackowski did a good job re-writing the scenes between the two characters. Turns out that Annie’s final speech to Pierce about being a cheerleader is actually taken from a combination of Hillary’s and Liz’s real lives.

Dan says he actually loves Annie’s cheerleader story because it’s so specific of a backstory and it allowed them to learn stuff.

Andrew says adapting the Bruce Hornsby song “The Way It Is,” came about because someone in the writers’ room thought the name of the song was “That’s the Way It Goes.” And they got to talking about what if Pierce thought that was the name of the song.

Dan says they tried to get Bruce Hornsby and The Range to play the closing song of the episode, but was turned down. Dan adds that he hopes to get Bruce on the show at some point.

Gillian says that Luis Guzman posed for the Luis Guzman statue.

Dan thanks Luis. He adds that he originally asked Mark Hamill to pose for it. Although Mark said no, Dan still got an awesome letter in response to his request. Dan said it actually made him love Mark, because he he’s one of the few people who can say “no” without coming off like a dick. He said Mark came across as fairly reasonable in his rejection.

Social Psychology

Commentary by Dan Harmon, Joel McHale, Yvette Nicole Brown, and Anthony Russo. Danny Pudi watched them do commentary from outside the recording booth.

Anthony states that the episode was aired out of order. It was moved up, which resulted in a rushed post-production.

Dan says that Liz Cackowski wrote the draft. It was apparently a big milestone for Dan. He felt that this was the first script that was just “ready to go” and he felt from the start that they could actually do this story.

First appearance of Vaughn (Erik Christian Olsen). Yvette notes that he’s (as of when they were recording the commentaries) a full-time cast member of one of the NCIS shows. Yvette says he was a great guy.

Anthony says that commentaries were recorded out of order from when the episodes aired. Apparently they had just finished commenting on later episodes and this was a return to the earlier episodes for them. Antony says that part of the fun of the early episodes is that you’re getting to know the characters, and in this case, exploring the relationship between Jeff and Shirley. He adds that another part of the fun is finding characters outside your core cast. Some of those characters wound up having “lives” in the first season, despite the fact they were originally cast as a one-shot guest.

Everyone loved the character of Vaughn, and they’re kind of sorry they didn’t get to explore him more. Dan mentions about making Vaughn a musical rival to Pierce (which only sort of happened).

Yvette says the nice thing about this episode is that she got to spend time with Joel. She says that just as Shirley and Jeff were getting to know each other, she and Joel were getting to know each other at the same time.

Dan credits Liz for coming up with the idea that the basis of the friendship between Jeff and Shirley is their mutual love of gossip, specifically talking smack behind people's backs.

Dan repeats that this is part of the series where “in the first six episodes” (umm, it took longer than six episodes for Annie,just sayin’), where Jeff would interact with each member of the study group and become inextricably tangled in each character’s life. This was the Jeff-Shirley episode. The problem they were trying to overcome was how to make that happen with Jeff and Shirley. That’s why they leaned into the whole thing where Jeff says at the open of the episode that he hates walking with Shirley and making small talk with her. However, he likes the fact that Shirley is the first to really bond with Jeff.

Yvette points out that Jeff and Shirley are really toxic together, so does that mean that they shouldn’t be together in future episodes? Dan disagrees, since the whole point is for “the family” to grow together so much that, if they want, Shirley moves up from being Jeff’s “least favorite family member” to someone he likes more.

Joel points out that the name of the coffee shop is Hot and Brown. Dan says it was tough coming up with a new coffee shop name after going through 15 names of coffee shops used on other sitcoms. Yvette jokes that she thought it was in homage to her. Dan points out that it’s racist. Yvette asks how it’s racist. Dan says, “It’s not racist if you say it.”

Yvette says that John Oliver has the cutest dimples ever. Joel adds that comedy just flows out of John and Jim Rash like a broken Roman fountain. Dan says that both John and Jim are amazing in different ways. He calls Jim “a machine” who hits every mark in exactly the same way if you want him to, which makes it easy to edit his scenes. John does a different thing every time and it’s amazing every single time.

According to Dan, there were a lot of shots (that were cut) where Duncan was leering at Annie, and it just made him feel very uncomfortable. He is very protective of the idea that Annie was an innocent little girl.

Yvette says that during this episode, a writer from Entertainment Weekly was on the set.

During S1, the exterior shots were shot at LA Community College. They also did outdoor shots on the Paramount lot. The Paramount lot was dressed to mimic the exterior of LA Community College. In this episode, they were shooting on the Paramount lot.

Joel points out that during his and Yvette’s first walk-and-talk scene, they were walking across the street from the office of the President of Paramount.

First official onscreen appearance of Garrett (Erik Charles Nielsen) is in Duncan’s group of lab rats for the Duncan Principle! (Although, he does also appear in “Advanced Criminal Law,” but from an airing order perspective, this episode is his first appearance.) Dan admits that in this episode, Garrett didn’t have a name. He was just a background character in the scene. Dan says Erik is “a darling of the underground stand-up comedy scene in LA.”

Troy’s meltdown was completely improvised by Donald Glover, to the point that the script only said "Troy melts down." Everyone on the commentary track just bursts into laughter. Yvette says that Troy's meltdown just makes her happy.

Dan notes that this episode runs longer than all the other episodes in S1, because NBC let them “super-size” the episode. Anthony says that even with the super-sizing, this episode was eight minutes too long. NBC waived the length requirements on the episode because this episode got moved up in the airing order, which meant they had a very short post-production window. So NBC took pity on them. Anthony says the version on the DVD is the as-aired longer NBC version. However, on streaming sites, they use the chopped-down syndicated version that’s only 22 minutes.

Yvette is convinced that Jeff is in love with Britta.

Dan feels this episode has a weird effect. He notes that the critics had a weird reaction as well, because they commented that suddenly Jeff Winger is Jim Halpert from The Office, and it’s now a rom-com and Jeff is so devastated because some girl he likes is making out with another guy.

Dan feels that Jeff is very, very inexperienced when it comes to feeling anything genuine about women. He’s had a crass, collector mentality when it comes to women. That as soon as he gets what he wants from them (he calls it “validation”), they become disgusting to him and he moves on. However, Britta, for whatever reason is different. He’s got a big crush on Britta, he likes her, he’s attracted to her “dirtiness,” and the eclecticness of her. In short, (and this is Dan’s actual words) Jeff “believes Britta is the girl he’s supposed to be with.”

Joel asks Dan if he thinks Jeff leaning his forehead against the vending machine was over the top. Dan admits they cut it down, but that he likes the fact that privately, Jeff is bummed out that Britta is “the one that got away.”

Joel says that when he read the script he was heartbroken in a “how could she” kind of way.

Dan says that Britta reminds him of so many of his ex-girlfriends. That one of things he finds attractive is that Britta is that tough girl you can throw into a suitcase and bring with you around the world. Then she turns out to be a mattress full of bed bugs and gives you ringworm. (This is greeted by groans and admonishment from Yvette.)

Dan admits that Duncan’s breakdown is him doing a "take that" against doctors and therapists because he hates people in white coats.

Yvette said she was very nervous about making Shirley making fun of Vaughn because she’s not really a physical comedian and she had to physically make fun of him.

Erik (Vaughn) was wearing tiny fake nipples. Anthony said that they weren’t actually prosthetic nipples. It was actually a trick of the make-up because they couldn't really afford the prosthetics.

Dan really likes the scene of Jeff and Britta sitting on the couch together. Dan mentions that the focus groups had a really simplistic view of Britta and the Jeff-Britta relationship. Focus groups felt that Britta was “the normal one” in the ensemble. Also, they really weren’t on board with the will-the-won’t-they between Jeff and Britta, but they liked the sibling vibe when they hatched schemes together and hung out as friends.

(Dan is obviously unhappy with that feedback as he stumbles a little bit over his explanation over whether or not to pay attention to the feedback. On whether or not Dan really wanted to know what the focus groups said, and he admits that early on he did. He kind of closes the discussion with “to me, you could get good feedback form a fire hydrant.” Anthony adds that NBC never “misused” the focus group information. They only shared the feedback.)

In the scene where the study group reassembles in the study room and the shit hits the fan, Joel jokes about Alison’s costuming by saying that she walked onto the set directly from her audition for Dukes of Hazard II. Dan adds that it’s subtitled, The Prep-ening.

Dan says that the study room scene is the first time they had a “shit hit the fan” scenario, and he now considers it a Community staple. Dan and Yvette said they both felt bad during this scene. Dan points out that in this scene, Vaughn becomes the most likeable character. Dan says it was also part of his “beating up on Britta to make her more likeable” campaign so she'd become the group Charlie Brown. It’s also the point where you realize the Study Group is made up of bad people.

Yvette says the scene following the Britta-Vaughn break-up scene was hard to do with Joel. However, it was due to behind-the-scenes reasons. Joel was being a sarcastic ass, and Yvette thought he was being mean to her. (She stresses that at this point they didn’t know each other very well.) Joel admits that he makes jokes and is sarcastic with people he doesn’t know people all that well. Dan points out that Joel just admitted that his defense mechanism is to be an ass.

Dan comments that Joel and Yvette have good chemistry. Yvette jokes with Joel and asks when she’s going to be getting a kiss.

Dan says that the scene between Annie and Abed where she gives him the apology DVD set was longer. In the cut scene, Duncan comes back and tells Annie that she’s brilliant and wants her to come with him to help him continue his work. Annie turns him down because she decides that she’d rather watch the DVDs with Abed. Anthony says that the point of the scene was to show that Duncan realized his meltdown actually confirmed the Duncan Principle. By cutting it, the storyline didn’t get paid off. Plus, Anthony adds, it was one of the funniest scenes that John Oliver had ever done. Dan says that this was part of the learning curve of learning how long a script needed to be to essentially make a 20-minute movie. The tragedy was they had to “kill their children” early on, the children in this case being scenes and jokes.

Dan says that a lot of the cool songs in the show comes from Joe Russo’s Ipod.

The tag between Troy and Abed was shot at 4 a.m. Joel says he had to leave directly from the shoot to catch a flight to New York.

Anthony said the episode needed to be locked two days later on a Saturday at 9 p.m., so he was up for 36 hours straight in editing to make the deadline.

#jeff x annie

[zayadriancas]

@maya-matlin im gonna post this on a text post because it’s showing up weird when I answered it as an ask

Jimmy Brooks, Drew Torres, Dave Turner, KC Guthrie, Sean Cameron, Peter Stone, Spinner Mason, Adam Torres, Joey Jeremiah, Campbell Saunders, Hunter Hollingsworth, Lucas Friar, Ethan Craft, Zay Babineaux, Shawn Hunter, Manny Santos, Maya Matlin, Shay Powers, Paige Michalchuk, Alex Nunez, Fiona Coyne, Katie Matlin, Riley Matthews, Maya Hart, Miranda Sanchez, Tori Santamaria, Holly J Sinclair, Marisol Lewis, Imogen Moreno, Mia Jones & Ellie Nash

Jimmy Brooks:

general opinion: don’t like them | eh 
 hotness level: meh 
 best quality: Idk he was a pretty good friend to Marco

worst quality: he’s an entitled ass
 ship them with: Trina & Hazel
 brotp them with: Craig & Marco 
 needs to stay away from: Ashley
 misc. thoughts: He annoyed me and pissed me off half of the time I really only liked him in season 7.

Drew Torres:

general opinion: | like them! | love them | actual love of my life 
 hotness level: pretty hot | 10/10 would bang

best quality: he always tries to do the right thing 
 worst quality: idk 
 ship them with: Bianca & Imogen
 brotp them with: Dallas

needs to stay away from: Katie & Becky
 misc. thoughts: I love Drew’s character especially in s11-12 and wish they didn’t take such a huge shit on him in s13-14. He deserved so much better. I loved his gang/PTSD storyline and his relatonship with Bianca. And his friendship with Dallas. He’s a good guy and I wish people didn’t treat him the way they did.

Dave Turner:

general opinion: eh | they’re fine I guess 
 hotness level: meh 

best quality: he’s pretty funny
 worst quality: he was pretty selfish in s12 to Alli 
 ship them with: Alli
 brotp them with: Connor 
 needs to stay away from: Jacinta
 misc. thoughts: I’m neutral on Dave, he’s a decent character but I didn’t really like the way he treated Alli in s12 or the way he treated Adam in s11(I know he learned from his mistake but still) he didn’t really have a decent storyline, then he was just blackholed. I don’t hate him but don’t love him.

KC Guthrie

general opinion: like them! 
 hotness level: neutral 
 best quality: he can be sweet
 worst quality: bad at commitment
 ship them with: Clare, Alli, & Marisol
brotp them with: Bianca & Connor
 needs to stay away from: Jenna
 misc. thoughts: I like KC especially in s8-9 and I hate that they dumded down his character for Kenna. His storyline with the coach was great, I loved his storyline with his mom (and their relationship in general) and the storyline with his dad was good but I wish KC didn’t leave :( he was finally being developed and redeemed it’s not fair :( overall I liked him the devil that was Kenna kind of ruined him for me in s10-11

Sean Cameron:

general opinion: like them! | love them | actual love of my life 
 hotness level: pretty hot | 10/10 would bang

best quality: he’s sweet 
 worst quality: he sometimes lets his anger get the best of him 
 ship them with: Emma & Ellie
 brotp them with: Jay
 needs to stay away from: Amy
 misc. thoughts: He’s a great character and I wish he hadn’t been written off twice.

Peter Stone general opinion: they’re fine I guess 
 hotness level: pretty hot 

best quality: 
 worst quality: the way he often treated women in the early seasons 
 ship them with: Darcy
 brotp them with: Riley, Danny, & Sav
 needs to stay away from: Mia
 misc. thoughts: I hated him in s5/early season 6 but once he got with Darcy he started to grow up and become better. I wish she never left because I loved them together, but Peter was still okay in s8-9 aside from Mia and the one episode drug problem he matured a bit more and was more likable. I don’t have strong feelings on him, mostly neutral on him.

Spinner Mason

general opinion: like them! | love them | actual love of my life 
 hotness level: pretty hot | 10/10 would bang

best quality: he’s funny and a pretty good boyfriend for the most part 
 worst quality: his immaturity in the early seasons 
 ship them with: Darcy, Jane, Paige, Holly J, & Terri
 brotp them with: Jay
 needs to stay away from: Emma ew
 misc. thoughts: I loved Spinner’s character especially in s5-9. He had a great redemption arc and I enjoyed his interactions with pretty much everyone. He was funny and likable and it may be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think the way literally everyone turned on him was fair, yes what he did was wrong but it wasn’t completely his fault. I’m glad he had Darcy during that time. <3 I hate how they randomly married him to Emma and wish they had been divorced in the reunion episode, the writers producers and actors agreed it was a huge mistake so idk why they didn’t take the opportunity they had to break them up.

Adam Torres

general opinion: they’re fine I guess 
 hotness level: neutral 

best quality: he’s loyal and sweet
 worst quality: Idk tbh 
 ship them with: Imogen, Becky, & Tori
 brotp them with: Clare
 needs to stay away from: Missy
 misc. thoughts: He’s a good character and had good storylines in s10-s11. I feel like they kind of gave up on him in s12 aside from Beckdam but even that was rushed IMO(still liked them though.) The way they wrote him off was BS. He deserved better.

Joey Jeremiah:

general opinion: like them! 
hotness level: theoretically hot but not my type (DJH/DH)



best quality: he’s funny and a good parent 
 worst quality: cheated on Caitlin (not really a quality but I’m having a hard time with these lol)
 ship them with: Caitlin
 brotp them with: Snake
 needs to stay away from: Tessa & Sydney
 misc. thoughts: I liked him a lot and he was my fave in DJH/DH. I liked him in DTNG but I hated when they gave him storylines in DTNG they were always boring. I loved the way he took Craig in and was a great father to him. And I loved his relationship with Caitlin and wish it hadn’t been ruined again.

Campbell Saunders

general opinion: like them! | love them

hotness level: pretty hot | 10/10 would bang

best quality: he’s sensitive and sweet 
 worst quality: letting his anger get the best of him
 ship them with: Maya
 brotp them with: No one
 needs to stay away from: Zig
 misc. thoughts: I loved his storyline because I can relate to him so much. I hate the way he was made out to be the victim with Zig and I hate the way the fandom is with him often but I try not to let that affect how I feel about him because he was a good character and had a great storyline. I wish his depression/anxiety was focused on more than Camaya though.

Hunter Hollingsworth:

general opinion: eh 
 hotness level: pretty hot | 10/10 would bang
 best quality: he’s hot
 worst quality: the way he treats women
 ship them with: no one
 brotp them with: no one 
 needs to stay away from: Maya 
 misc. thoughts: I liked him a lot in s13-14 but they ruined him in Next Class with what he did to Maya. And the fact he never apologized makes it worse. I hate how they gave him a mental illness to excuse what he did then didn’t even bothering following up on that after one episode and just made it about his relationship with Yael. But at the same time I can kind of relate to him which scares me because I get angry easily and have depression but they didn’t write it correctly with him. He’s not as bad in s3 but his storyline was ridiculous and Yael deserves better honestly and I don’t even like her that much.

Lucas Friar:

general opinion: like them! 
 hotness level: theoretically hot but not my type 

best quality: he’s a good and loyal friend
 worst quality: i can’t think of anything 
 ship them with: Riley 
 brotp them with: Zay & Farkle
 needs to stay away from: Maya
 misc. thoughts: I like his character but I wish they gave him an actual storyline of his own.

Ethan Craft: general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: theoretically hot but not my type 

best quality: He’s hilarious 
 worst quality: He’s clueless lol
 ship them with: Lizzie (kind of)
 brotp them with: Gordo
 needs to stay away from: Kate
 misc. thoughts: I love him he’s hilarious he always made me laugh and smile

Zay Babineuax:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: neutral 

best quality: he’s funny and a good friend 
 worst quality: N/A
 ship them with: Smackle kind of 
 brotp them with: Lucas
 needs to stay away from: No one 
 misc. thoughts: He’s a great and funny character and I wish he got his own storyline too.

Shawn Hunter:

general opinion: like them! | love them | actual love of my life 
 hotness level: pretty hot | 10/10 would bang

best quality: he’s a great friend and always stays strong 
 worst quality: idk lol I’m so bad at these
 ship them with: Angela
 brotp them with: Cory
 needs to stay away from: Katy
 misc. thoughts: I love Shawn, he had the best storylines in BMW. He went through so much and deserved better than what he was given. He’s definitely my favorite BMW character aside from Eric.

Manny Santos:

general opinion: they’re fine I guess | like them! 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: She’s a great friend 
 worst quality: in the early seasons, her obsession with Craig tbh
 ship them with: Jay
 brotp them with: Darcy
 needs to stay away from: Craig
 misc. thoughts: I have mixed feelings on her, I liked her in seasons 1-2, seasons 4-5, and 7-8. But something about her in s3 and s6 bugged me. I guess I just didn’t like how she didn’t care how Ashley felt when it came to the Craig situation and hooked up with him anyway. And just her obsession with him in general. And idk about season 6 she just annoyed me for some reason. But other than that I liked her character and she had good character development.

Maya Matlin:

general opinion: like them! | love them | actual love of my life 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s a great friend and very selfless and caring 
 worst quality: sometimes caring more about other people more than herself because she deserves to be happy and as great as it is that she puts other people before her she needs to take care of herself too 
 ship them with: Zig
 brotp them with: Grace
 needs to stay away from: Miles & Zoe
 misc. thoughts: I love Maya so much. She’s one of my favorite female characters to ever be on this show. I can relate to her so much especially after NC season 3. She’s a strong, caring, sweet, talented, amazing person and she deserves so much better than the way people have treated her. But for the most part she doesn’t let it get to her and I applaud her for that even though I wouldn’t blame her if she slapped some of these people lol.

Shay Powers:

general opinion: like them! 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s smart and strong
 worst quality: honestly she takes things too seriously 
 ship them with: Tiny
 brotp them with: Frankie
 needs to stay away from: Esme 
 misc. thoughts: I like Shay’s character. She’s smart, strong, and doesn’t take any shit. But at the same time she takes things way too seriously (like with the Tiny/Lola thing in episode 5) but I still like her and she’s a good character.

Paige Michalchuk:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: shes sassy and doesn’t take anyone’s shit
worst quality: the way she treated her friends in the early seasons 
 ship them with: Spinner & JT
 brotp them with: Marco 
 needs to stay away from: Dean & Matt
 misc. thoughts: At first I didn’t like her the first time I watched but I love her character now. She had good storylines for the most part and I wish they didn’t kind of erase her character development in DGH, I know her and Marco made up and she was good again in the reunion episode but it was a shitty send off for her character. Still love her though.

Alex Nunez:

general opinion: eh | they’re fine I guess 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she doesn’t take anyone’s shit
 worst quality: the way she treated people in s3-4
 ship them with: no one 
 brotp them with: Paige 
 needs to stay away from: no one 
 misc. thoughts: I don’t really care for her character. She’s okay but most of her character was about her relationship with Paige which I didn’t like because I felt like they brought out the worst in each other. Then she was just written off. Also the stripping storyline was ridiculous.

Fiona Coyne:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s stylish 
 worst quality: clingy 
 ship them with: Imogen & Charlie 
 brotp them with: Holly J & Dallas
 needs to stay away from: Alcohol
 misc. thoughts: I love her character. She had great character development and I loved her alcoholism and abuse storylines in season 10. Also I know a lot of people didn’t like her storyline in Karma Police but I liked it because she finally learned she can’t always depend on other people and needs to be there for herself.

Katie Matlin: general opinion: eh | they’re fine I guess 
 hotness level: meh 

best quality: she was a good sister to Maya for the most part 
 worst quality: she was hypocritical, bitchy, and took advantage of Drew
 ship them with: Jake
 brotp them with: No one 
 needs to stay away from: Drew 
 misc. thoughts: she annoyed me for the most part but I didn’t hate her. I hate what she did to Drew and hated the way she treated Bianca but in season 12 once she got with Jake she wasn’t too terrible. But then she screwed him over too and she took it out on everyone else and it pissed me off. I like that she was there for Maya in Next Class though. I liked her soccer storyline but at the same time the way she treated Drew during that time pissed me off. Mainly she just pissed me off.

Riley Matthews:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s a great friend and super positive and optimistic and caring
 worst quality: a little too dramatic sometimes 
 ship them with: Lucas, Farkle, & Maya
 brotp them with: Maya 
 needs to stay away from: No one
 misc. thoughts: I like her character a lot. She’s one of my favorite GMW characters. I like how positive and sweet she is.

Maya Hart:

general opinion: they’re fine I guess 
hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s tough 
 worst quality: the way she takes her making fun of Lucas too far sometimes
 ship them with: Josh, Riley, & Farkle 
 brotp them with: Riley, Zay, & Farkle
 needs to stay away from: Lucas 
 misc. thoughts: I don’t really care for her character she kind of bugs me. I feel like they tried too hard to make people feel bad for her and I do feel bad for her situation with her dad but aside from that she doesn’t have it that bad, her mom cares for her and she has good friends and basically a second mother figure in Topanga and two father figures with Cory & Shawn. I hate how a lot of things were made about Maya when they didn’t need to be. She’s not a bad character and I don’t hate her but she just bugs me most of the time.

Miranda Sanchez:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: I love her style and she’s a great friend 
 worst quality: idk 
 ship them with: No one 
 brotp them with: Lizzie
 needs to stay away from: No one 
 misc. thoughts: I love Miranda’s character. She had great style and was fun and interesting and had good storylines. I wish they didn’t write her off :( the movie would have been even better with her in it.

Tori Santamaria:

general opinion: they’re fine I guess 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she was a good friend to Tristan and Maya 
 worst quality: she was kind of too clingy with Zig tbh
 ship them with: Adam 
 brotp them with: Tristan 
 needs to stay away from: Zig
 misc. thoughts: I didn’t like her in s11 she was way too clingy with Zig like 50 messages really? And the way she treated Maya out of jealousy for awhile. But she was more likable in s12. I wish she had a better storyline. And that her characrer didn’t just revolve around her obsession with Zig.

Holly J Sinclair:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s determined, strong, and powerful 
 worst quality: her bitchiness in s7-8
 ship them with: Declan(s9), Sav, & Spinner
 brotp them with: Fiona
 needs to stay away from: N/A
 misc. thoughts: I didn’t like her in s7-8 but I grew to love her character & she became one of my favorites. She had one of the best character developments. I loved her storylines in s10 & 11. & I loved her friendship with Fiona.

Marisol Lewis:

general opinion: like them! 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: idk 
 worst quality: her rudeness in s11
 ship them with: Mo, KC, & Jake
brotp them with: No one
 needs to stay away from: No one
 misc. thoughts: I liked her character, especially when she started dating Mo because she became nicer. I mainly liked her in season 12. I wish she had her own storyline. As much as I love Morisol it bugged me that his diabetes storyline was from her POV and only lasted 2 episodes.

Imogen Moreno:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she doesn’t care what people think of her 
 worst quality: idk lol
 ship them with: Fiona, Jack, Adam, Drew, Becky, & Dallas
 brotp them with: Becky
 needs to stay away from: Eli
 misc. thoughts: I love Imogens character. I loved how quirky and unique she was and I loved her style. I wish she either wasn’t held back or had better storylines in s13-14 (preferably the latter) because they wasted her potential. Her storyline with her dad should have been continued or he at least should have been mentioned. But I still loved her and I wish she got to have a happier ending. Both proms she went to she lost her girlfriend, I know it was Imogen’s choice both times but it’s still sad.

Mia Jones:

general opinion: don’t like them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s pretty 
 worst quality: she’s annoying ASF and an irresponsible mother 
 ship them with: Danny
 brotp them with: Anya
 needs to stay away from: JT & Peter
 misc. thoughts: I actually kind of liked her in s7 but she annoyed the shit out of me in s6 and s8. Her storylines were terrible and unrealistic, the one person I liked her with she screwed over, she was an irresponsible mother, terrible at prioritizing…I’m so glad she was written off.

Ellie Nash:

general opinion: like them! | love them 
 hotness level: gorgeous! 

best quality: she’s pretty strong and tough 
despite being through a lot

worst quality: she can be kind of rude sometimes 
 ship them with: Craig & Sean
 brotp them with: Marco 
 needs to stay away from: Jesse
 misc. thoughts: I loved Ellie’s character. She had great storylines in s3-4. I loved her style too. I didn’t like the way they wrote her in s6-7 but still loved her regardless. I wish she was in the reunion episode.

Thanks for all these this was hard lol but fun. :P Btw I skipped the hogwarts houses cuz idk how to do those lol.

#maya-matlin #answered #peter stone #maya matlin #ellie nash #paige michalchuk #alex nunez #mia jones #sean cameron #holly j sinclair #fiona coyne #zay babineaux #maya hart #Riley Matthews #shawn hunter #ethan craft #miranda sanchez #jimmy brooks #kc guthrie #imogen moreno #adam torres #marisol lewis #tori santamaria #katie matlin #drew torres #shay powers #lucas friar #campbell saunders #joey jeremiah #dave turner