#Mincéirí

[wastedwinter]

Mincéiri women and children and their decorated caravan on route to Cahirmee Horse Fair Elinor Wiltshire, Buttevant, Co. Cork, July 1954

#nli #ireland #irish #vintage photography #travellers #Mincéirí #Mincéirs #Pavees #irish travellers #an lucht siúil #the walking people #gypsy #caravan #nollaig na mban #elinorwiltshire #elinor wiltshire #irish photography #irish photographer #photography #Black and White #peoplephotography #history #irish history

[deanrheims]

Travellers Rest #GRTfuturism #art #digitalart #illustration #GRT #irishtravellers #Mincéirí #landscape #fantasy #alternativeuniverse #glow #countryside #caravans #trailer #tents #camping #nomad #moebius #deanrheims #danmomford #procreate #photoshop #illustrator #highfantasy #disney #pixar #digitaldrawing #artbyhumans #sketchbookapp https://www.instagram.com/p/Co2mrUvKxVP/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=

#grtfuturism #art #digitalart #illustration #grt #irishtravellers #mincéirí #landscape #fantasy #alternativeuniverse #glow #countryside #caravans #trailer #tents #camping #nomad #moebius #deanrheims #danmomford #procreate #photoshop #illustrator #highfantasy #disney #pixar #digitaldrawing #artbyhumans #sketchbookapp

[cruelsister-moved2]

ngl. seeing people who don't understand what indigineity means in the context of europe makes me insane some of you bitches are reinventing blood and soil!!! whilst erasing the actual indigenous people who live here. literally saw an irish american saying they are ‘descended from indigenous people’ because their great grandparents were ‘indigenous to ireland’ and firstly, taking the term literally in the naturalistic sense makes no sense because it’s used relatively, like every plant is indigenous TO somewhere and being indigenous is not an inherent thing that a species can either be or not be. but secondly would you not ask yourself what kind of category you’ve created by this logic wherein colonised and coloniser are all one on the condition they remain where their genome ‘belongs’, but forcibly displaced people and immigrants etc are excluded. whats the point? also the understanding of indigenous as being ‘there before the white people got there’ ignores the reality of internal colonisation within europe, like frankly if the only reason not to think of romani, irish travellers, tatars etc as indigenous people is because they are perceived as like interlopers from outside once the dominant white population of the region was already established then how is that not just cosigning the exact prejudice against those groups.? 

#my jaw dropppps like you seriously cannot be doing 'my ancestors were here first and therefore i have an inherent connection to the land' #as a white european. #....................... #sorry for being bad at explaining as always but i just cant bite my fist abt seeing ppl doing blood n soil again #bc they wont listen to indigenous people about what indigenous actually means #well from what i understand #mincéirí just diverged from the settled irish population several hundred years ago #rather than being an outside group that came from somewhere else #which to me makes their not being understood as an indigenous group particularly baffling #but they are also not understood as a 'before' in like a genomic sense which to me throws the whole thing into question because they like. #DO predate colonialism but it was very much like the fact that colonialism changed everyones relationship to the land including in coloniser #countries #ALSO fwiw sámi dont predate norse settlement of the region so i dont really know on what basis exactly they are considered the only #indigenous group in europe except from if people think thats the case #and if thats why that just kind of proves in reality indigineity isnt actually reliant on the timeline #because in their case it was like 2000 years ago so it matters much less than like how they have been & still are treated #by the governments of the countries which claim to own their land

[lesbiansandgayssupporttheminers]

Hope this isn’t somehow an offensive question, but what’s the difference between Irish travelers and Romani people? I thought ‘travelers’ was another term for Romani, and that they were essentially the same thing? I’m not European so my knowledge of Roma people is all second hand

So, first of all, although I have some traveller ancestry (which is a whole separate complicated thing), I don't consider myself part of any of the groups covered by GRT and I didn't grow up within a traveller culture. I don't, unfortunately, know any Irish travellers on Tumblr, or I would direct this ask to them.

Irish travellers (also known as Mincéirí) are a distinct ethnic group who originate in Ireland. In UK, Irish and I believe EU law, Irish travellers have protections as an ethnic group.

Irish travellers have their own language and culture. The origin of Irish Traveller culture isn't entirely clear- possibly they are an ethnic group within Ireland who have never led a settled lifestyle OR they were group displaced from their land by English colonialism. However, they are genetically distinct from the "settled Irish" and are a separate ethnic group, legally and practically.

It's worth bearing in mind their language is a closed language and their culture, to an extent, is a closed culture.

Romani people are originally from the indian subcontinent, and travelled from India, through Asia, into Europe, and other parts of the world.

Both are nomadic groups, and they do have some cultural similarities, but in the UK at least, they regard themselves as separate racial groups (in fact, within the UK, there are multiple different groups of Romani as well, who regard themselves as somewhat separate) with distinct cultures- and I think it's really important to acknowledge that.

In the UK and Ireland they experience extremely high levels of prejudice, and they are sometimes grouped together under the heading of "GRT"- gypsy and romany travellers. This also includes other groups who live traveller lifestyles, but may not be genetically distinct from the settled population.

It's worth bearing in mind that some historical examples of prejudice, such as the holocaust specifically targeted Romani people only. However, in the UK, historically laws were made against "gypsies" and this therefore targeted both groups. Current issues, like the shortage of proper traveller sites, and the new laws against using stopping places and so on, and general prejudice target both groups. Generally, the same slurs are used to target both groups.

In the UK, historically, both groups have faced issues such as having their children removed and placed with settled families due to "homelessness".

Both groups are extremely discriminated against- sometimes surveys lump them in together, but a recent survey of ethnic minorities suggested that travellers (Irish and Romany together) experience the most racially motivated assaults of any ethnic minority in the UK. Which doesn't surprise me- I hear a lot of casual racism against travellers from people who'd never consider behaving that way towards any other ethnic group. P**** is the only racial slur I've ever actually heard used in my classrooms, for example, and I've heard it multiple times. It's also used as slang for stealing.

Surveys of educational outcomes distinguish between Romani and Irish travellers. Bear in mind it's difficult for these groups to access education if they live a traditional lifestyle. Romani children have the worst educational outcomes of any ethnic group in the UK, and Irish travellers are the second worst. The next lowest group is black-carribean, and their outcomes at GCSE are double that of Romani students. Irish travellers have outcomes which are less than 50% of the highest performing ethnic groups.

We know that Romani and Irish travellers are both disproportionately represented in the prison population in the UK. In Ireland, we know Irish travellers have a much lower life expectancy than other Irish groups.

Tl;DR- in the UK, travellers is a general term for anyone who travels, and this includes Irish travellers and Romani, who are both distinct ethnic/cultural groups.

[s-n-arly]

I saw your previous post on g*psy used as a slur (I hope I'm censoring that correctly) and was wondering if you knew anything about/have any particular opinion on irish travellers (particularly in the UK) using it? If not, no worries! Regardless, I found the sources you linked really helpful in understanding!

Thanks for asking! I'm glad my sources were helpful. I'm not an expert on Travellers, who are a distinctly different ethnic group from Romani. However, as a nomadic people they have suffered much of the same hostility, and historically in the UK the word "Gypsy" was used to include both Romani and Travellers. I've seen recent news articles about the child protective services in Ireland needlessly taking Traveller children from their families (under unsubstantiated claims of child abuse), and for many years nomadism was effectively criminalized in an effort to force cultural assimilation.

Wikipedia has a decent introductory page on the Irish Travellers.

#asked and answered #Romani #Irish Travellers #Mincéirí #Pavee #Nomadism #Not writing

[cruelsister-moved]

ngl one ireland kinda slay is in the same constitution that massively redacted the rights women had enjoyed during the irish free state and set them back to worse than they had been under british rule, and established the domination of the catholic church over irish state matters which continues today, they also gave specific constitutional recognition to irelands jewish population which was like kind of unprecedented for europe in the 1930s

#trivia for u #apparently it was a big thing to be like 'ireland is the only christian nation in europe without antisemitism' #and its so crazy bc irish ppl r literally still like this today. like there's a v common idea #that they can't be racist/antisemitic/xenophobjc bc they're irish #and like. it's not TRUE but it's like smth some ppl r so obsessed w #and that's why i get so fucking fuming abt irish americans getting in a frenzy abt irish oppression n colonialism #like you are just excusing yourself from culpability in these discussions #esp when in ireland there is just like.... unparalleled oppression n discrimination against mincéirí #that no one ever wants 2 address #n it's like ig they dont see their great tolerance as extending to the indigenous people in their own country lol #like omg when everyone was obsessed w the irish 🤝 native american solidarity its like #lets see how patrick bateman treats the indigenous people he has to share his land with 😐 #not to mention how irish ppl in america actually treated black and native ppl also. 😐

[fiagai-cnuasaitheoir]

Apart from being colonised, where does Ireland stand when it comes to colonialism?

Well Ireland, didn’t colonise in the traditional sense. Being the invaded rather than the invaders, they don’t have the same track record that the neighbouring oppressive European countries do

But there still were and are irish catholic “missionaries” converting people in countries like Africa to Christianity. Which is arguably also colonial in a sense. Because its the erasure of culture.

And stems from the same mentality that erased a huge portion of Irish culture long ago. When the first christians over took the Irish pagans culture.

There are still colonial aspects of Irish society that need to be addressed.

So are the Irish responsible for colonialism? No. We were part of the countries who were colonised. Should Ireland still be held accountable for colonial behaviours of its population through the catholic church? Absolutely. The Irish “missionaries” of the catholic church have colonial qualities and this is still harmful. And a feature of a colonial institution.

Many aspects of Ireland need accountability. There is still discrimination within the country. There is also an ethnic minority in Ireland called Mincéirí or Irish travellers. These are a nomadic community of Ireland. Who are often mistreated and discriminated against harshly. Many settled travellers often also experience discrimination on the basis of preconceived class. And people who experience discrimination of the basis of class in Ireland are not protected under the Irish constitution. The Polish and black community also deserve better in this country.

#Colonialism #gaeilge #irish #as gaeilge #history #ireland #world history #cultures

[unreal-unearth]

when several romani people said they either don't mind the word or they do but don't expect an apology, what are you fighting and attacking others for? to be right?

Who are those Romani people, btw? 'cause I follow one here who's been hurt by the use of the word and *does* expect an apology, but instead of actually listening, y'all started to attack her. Also, who's fighting others? I'm not the one sending anon hate/demanding an apology from him. I just answer your asks in the same tone you use with me. If you're nice even if we don't have the same opinion, I'm gonna be nice as well. If you come here trying to invalidate me or those hurt by this, then don't expect me to be *nice*

Edit: I know many Romani people are ok with the word but some are not and they deserve to be heard as well. This is a criticism of people who are not Romani (including you, anon) who refuse to see that the g word is a slur to some people. If any Romani/Mincéirí wants to come here to tell me that it isn't a slur to them, I'll listen. But I won't take it from someone who isn't part of these communities :)

#asks

[deanrheims]

Lucid Comfort. #GRTfuturism #art #digitalart #illustration #GRT #irishtravellers #Mincéirí #landscape #scifi #fantasy #otherworld #outlined #deanrheims https://www.instagram.com/p/CoWbZwNKjwA/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=

#grtfuturism #art #digitalart #illustration #grt #irishtravellers #mincéirí #landscape #scifi #fantasy #otherworld #outlined #deanrheims

[cruelsister-moved2]

i hate when I wanna say something but I don't know how to say it succinctly and I don't want to make like a huge lecturing post this is seriously my daily struggle help me

#i wanna talk abt how if ur european u should look into the jewish n romany history of ur area #the same way americans now recognise its important to know abt the indigenous history of ur area #but idk how to summarise like how and why its important and my feelings about it #bc idk like... americans DO always throw out goofy stuff like 'there's indigenous people everywhere' bc they read one tumblr post abt sámi #but there totally is indigenous history here and a lot of it is like so unremarked on unless you look #and like theres almost certainly jewish and romany history in your area where you are #and then depending where you live mincéirí and tatar and sámi and manyyyy other regional groups #and like it's part of knowing abt ur area n its hugely important... i have this anecdote frm my dad recently #who met this guy tht was like raving abt romany ppl at the pub #and he was. shocked to discover he lives in like a huge traveller area #bc he just reads the sun n hears all this stuff n then his lawnmower goes missing n he blames it on travellers or smth #having no idea the whole time hes been peacefully coexisting w travellers so much he nvr even noticed their presence #I think tht part is so important bc travellers r so so invisible #everyone will highlight anything bad that happens but no one ever notices 99%of the time #actually I rmbr my friend from uni telling me how their horse got knicked n the police were like #hmm probably travellers. and they were like. officer we ARE travellers...