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takaraphoenix · 3 years

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Ship game!! What about Nico and Will?? It’s pretty popular, but I don’t think I’ve seen you write much of it…

That's an interesting one in that I have vocalized my reasons for disliking it way back when it first became popular but instead of just linking that, it has been years so I think it's time for an updated version.

Firstly: This post is gonna be properly tagged and not crosstagged so if any shipper comes across it and feels the need to bitch about it, just don't; your lack of curating your own tumblr experience is not my problem! ;D

Now, there are three key factors that play into my dislike of this ship: How it was written, what it represents, how the fandom around it acts.

1. It’s rushed and uncomfortable

In BoO, it was incredibly rushed. They had literally five sentences of interactions before they walked into the literal sunset together. Five. It was just entirely born from Riordan's Noah's Ark Complex, where he just can't let people be single. The series was ending and he needed Nico to have an endgame so he rushed into some random romance with zero build-up.

The way their interactions went down was also severely uncomfortable for me. Will was acting so offended by Nico not wanting to go to camp and be friends in an entitled way that he had no right to be, he downright guilt-tripped Nico about how he had wanted to be friends. Nico has been just so severely traumatized at such a young age and his coping mechanism, as unhealthy as it was, was to run away and hide. Will acted like Nico not wanting to form attachments to people who could potentially leave him again was somehow just an Edgy Emo Decision and not a direct reaction to his trauma. His entire approach to Nico was basically all these hippie posts of "Don't have depression!! Just go out into the sun and stop being depressed!", which is already a bad take with non-medical people but he's supposed to be a doctor (and let's not get into the shadiness of him technically being Nico's doctor).

There is also an inherent "I can fix him" angle to this ship and to me, only few ship dynamics are more uncomfortable than that. If you want to fundamentally change a person's behavior and personality, you... don't actually want to be with this person.

Now, here's where my points overlap, because the following parts of their writing that bothers me also stand for what this ship fundamentally represents.

2. Solangelo is a queer ship written by and for straights

I'm a queer woman and as a queer woman, I want queer wish-fulfillment, not what straights want out of queerness. I'm kind of tired of that, I've been sitting through it for enough decades now. That's, of course, not to say that no straight writer can give proper queer representation, but far too often do straight writers - even the most well-meaning ones - project straight desires of queerness into their queer representation.

Let me explain that closer through this ship.

Nico's been in love with Percy for years and I'm going to do my best to not hijack this post with some Percico agenda; that's not what this his about, this isn't some "my ship is better than your ship" ship-war nonsense. It's simply a canonical fact that Nico has had romantic feelings for another character for years.

A character who, in this medium, is heterosexual. And if you're queer, you've been there. In love with your straight best friend. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.

We have also all been well-meaningly rejected by said straight friend.

And here's the straight desires for you: The queer person who was in love with a straight person just immediately stops having those feelings and will then as quickly as possible fall in love with the next queer person they meet to be happy and no longer uncomfortably in love with a straight person, because that thought makes the straights uncomfortable.

Queer wish-fulfillment would be for Percy to return those feelings, for the queer character to get his first love, to not be rejected. That thing queer teens always dreamed about for themselves.

Aside from the wish-fulfillment angle, the pacing is another problem. Let me repeat, Nico was in love for years. But a five sentence conversation with Will once causes a crush on Will and we see him physically turn away from Percy and toward Will just immediately to rebound and actually fall out of love with Percy and in love with Will. Anyone who's ever been unlucky in love will attest to just how unrealistic and ridiculous the pacing here is.

It's also straight queerness in another respect; Nico has been the first ever queer character we meet in that world. He loves a straight guy - and to get over that, we introduce the second queer character. Because heaven forbid there are multiple queers to pick from. No, in straight-written queer romances, there is always that one main queer and then they introduce a second one and the two just immediately hit it off and develop a romance like all a queer person needs to form attraction to someone is the confirmation that the other person shares your sexuality.

Also the notable gay guy on gay guy ship here, whereas the more queer-wish-fulfillment option would have also included more nuance to the queer experience, because Percy doesn't have to be heterosexual just because he has only been with girls so far. It's a very old-fashioned - think 90s and early 2000s - kind of straight-written queerness that there are only exactly two homosexuals and that those two homosexuals then pair up.

And, listen, I'm not immune to these outdated straight-written queers entirely, I have many such ships that I grew up with that I am still fond of because they were groundbreaking at that time and they weren't outdated yet back when they happened in said 90s and early 2000s. I am however a grown woman now and just like I have grown, so has queer rep so I am not as easily baited into falling onto my knees in gratitude for canon rep. You have to go with the times. And this ship, by all that is given to us, is just entirely outdated straight-written rep.

Which, I mention earlier that even straight-written rep can be good. If the author tries. Riordan doesn't really try though; he does the bare minimum when he writes any of his rep - and there have been many, many more qualified voices being very vocal about his depiction of people of color and, as a woman, I've been vocal about his depiction of women. I don't want to derail this post with all of that, but I do think that it bears mentioning that Riordan doing rep but only doing a bare minimum and not putting in the necessary work to deepen the representation he wants to give is a repeating pattern that has been pointed out many times by now.

(I’d also like to point out that no, it is not just the ship and not just the listed instances that make it straight-written rep for straights. It’s Nico’s entire queer arc, starting with his forced coming out. A severely traumatizing event that is completely brushed over because the straight author doesn’t understand the impact this has on queer people. Not to mention the framework; Nico’s coming out isn’t Nico’s story, it happens in Jason’s POV, it is given to us through the POV of the straight bystander who gets to be Best Ally by assuring Nico that being gay is okay. This kind of coming out is not a queer wish-fulfillment, it’s a straight wish-fulfillment of getting to be the straight savior, the ally to show the gay the light of acceptance. And, additional to the ridiculous pacing of how fast Nico gets over his love for Percy, Nico also gets over years of internalized homophobia just because of, I don’t know, Jason’s few encouraging words and the fact that Will paid attention to him? For a gay kid who was in the closet all his life, the nonchalant way in which he publicly confessed his crush to Percy at the end made absolutely no sense and was written as basically a joke, finished off with Nico literally high-fiving Percy’s girlfriend despite those two never having seen eye to eye before but this is straight wish-fulfillment so all straights are Super Allies, because that’s the way straights want to see themselves, even though Annabeth has shown before just how jealous she can be and she most definitely wouldn’t go around high-fiving people who confess to her boyfriend. Nothing about Nico’s queer arc in HoO felt natural or queer or satisfying.)

Sure, Solangelo on a surface level is big because it's a canon queer couple in a YA book-series and kudos for that and yay for the kids who get to grow up seeing queers in YA books, but I actually do think that kids growing up with books written in the 2010s shouldn't grow up with 1990s levels of representation, because the 2010s overall are actually at a far more nuanced and better level of representation when it comes to queerness. And I do reserve the right to quit on too straight-written and too outdated queer rep in a landscape where I can get more satisfying representation elsewhere; we don’t live in times anymore where you necessarily have to love every bit of rep because it’s the only one you get.

Now that we've gone through my first two gripes, let's wrap this up with the final point, because it also directly ties into this.

3. The new wave of antis hiding behind this ship

A huge part of the fandom is so busy kissing Riordan's ass solely for giving them queer rep at all they think that both the author and the ship are beyond flawless and that kind of attitude is not good. Just because an author includes rep doesn't make either perfect. Absolutely no one is beyond critique - especially not when said critique comes from the very people the author is representing. And even beyond any "valid" critique on the ship, quite frankly, someone should also be allowed to just not like it, without any reasons given at all.

But there is a certain... protective obsessiveness about this ship that doesn't allow a not liking. Very similar to how PJO bore this mindset around Perc/abeth already. It's okay to have OTPs, even OTPs that you have a blindspot for and just don't want to see any flaws in. It is however not okay to then go around attacking people who don't like the thing and mind their own business.

Solangelo's bred a new generation of antis in this fandom. And, particularly with the fact that this post too receives an "anti" tag, I feel like there needs to be a clarification (because tumblr likes to forget what actually makes an anti). Not liking something doesn't make you an anti, venting in properly tagged posts doesn't either; it's the people who harass others, who seek out the content they dislike to then complain that it even exists and who actively try to make others stop creating for it - those are antis.

And with Solangelo's popularity, there was a high rise in Percico antis, who sought it out, were unnecessarily nasty about it, harrassed creators and tried to enforce some kind of "Solangelo supremacy" that won't allow other ships for the characters.

I've been in fandom long enough to be perfectly aware that not all Solangelo shippers count into this category and that there are completely normal and nice Solangelo shippers, but this is a Venn diagram where the overlap between Solangelo shippers and antis is too large to not widely associate the nasty people with the ship itself. (I've been there myself, shipping the very ship behind which a fandom's antis all hid. The second-hand embarrassment of having these people give the ship a bad name is horrendous and I do feel bad for all the normal Solangelo shippers.)

The more often I encountered these people, who made Percico bad (sometimes in wildly ridiculous manners that bent and deliberately misinterpreted canon) and who in the same breath praised Solangelo high, the more tired I grew of that ship. It's a simple game of association, really. You see that linked to the gross and nasty behavior and you start associating the ship itself with that gross and nasty behavior - and with all the things I said before that already weighed into my dislike of the ship, this just was the final tipping point, really.

And that's it. That sums up why I dislike Solangelo. It was hastily rushed, uncomfortable in its execution, it is outdated rep that very much feels as straight-written as it factually is and it does not feel aimed at me as a queer person but rather at the straight audience and it has gathered a cult following of quite uncomfortable people who on their own would be reason enough to avoid it so you can avoid them.

Send me a ship and I will explain why I do or don't ship it

#Anti Solangelo #PJOverse #Riordan Critical #Shipping #Ship Ask Game #send me asks #it IS both a positive AND negative game #and I gotta admit #it is nice to put these things #into proper words #every once in a while

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seattlesea · 3 years

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Why Solangelo Isn’t A Good Ship (Sorry)

The amount of love I see for Solangelo is honestly kind of surprising???

1. It was only for publicity. The House of Hades- which is when Nico came out as gay- came out late 2013, and the spike for LGBTQ+ supporters and allies was mid-2013, and there was absolutely no foreshadowing or even hints to Nico being gay beforehand. Riordan only confirmed Nico gay to avoid backlash. And in The Blood of Olympus, Nico is openly gay to the readers, Reyna, and Jason, then comes out to Percy and Annabeth afterwards. Then he’s introduced to Will and- in the very next book they’re seen in- they’re in a loving relationship. It’s as if Riordan didn’t believe that having Nico come out as gay was good enough but had to give him a boyfriend to ‘validate’ or ‘confirm’ his sexuality like so many assholes ask LGBTQ+ people to do.

2. It happened way too fast. Will and Nico meet for the very first time and start dating within only five months. What? Not only is that too fast for normal people to actually get into a legit, real relationship that isn’t something out of a cliche high school movie, but Nico came out as gay after being scared to for years, just started slipping out of his isolated and depressive state, literally had to learn how to socialize after being alone for 3+ years, just came out of a war and even Tartarus with truck loads of PTSD that would take years to fully recover from, and just started gaining a family and friends and had to learn how to accept help and comfort from others. Tell me- how many soldiers who just came back from war are concerned about getting a boyfriend/girlfriend/datefriend? Nico’s story in BoO should’ve been about his recovery, not getting a boyfriend. I mean, he met Will for the first time and immediately started liking him, and they didn’t have any meaningful conversations whatsoever. All they did was bicker. Even in The Tower of Nero, they didn’t show any actual mutual understanding of or true affection towards each other. They didn’t talk about anything deeper than the shallow end of a pool, about each other, or even how they got to be in a relationship. They were just kind of there, reminding the readers that ‘Hey, I’m Rick Riordan and I added a gay couple to the main cast! I’m great!’

3. It was too fast for the readers. People often forget that the speed of relationships in books aren’t only about canon, but what the readers see as well, cause what good is a relationship if the fans didn’t see any of it? That’s not going to help us like it, it’s just going to confuse and annoy us. We want to see how the relationship formed, grew, and developed from a platonic friendship, acquaintance, or ally into a mutual romantic liking. If we don’t see that, the relationship is just boring and dull. Seeing the development of the relationship is what helps the readers gain a true connection and emotional bond to it. If we don’t get that, the relationship is as good as a blank page. And it’s not only that, but it’s also flat-out bad and lazy writing. Will and Nico met for the first time in BoO, talked like twice and only bickered and argued (as if that’s the start of a super healthy relationship), then in The Hidden Oracle, they’re suddenly a loving couple? What?

4. The mental illness problem. I’m sure most of you know of the disgusting and ableist stereotype that the struggle and trauma of people with mental illnesses (especially depression, anxiety, and PTSD) magically wash away after they meet their romantic partner, right? Like the teenage girl who’s having a panic attack in school, gets noticed by her crush, and is all of a sudden fine cause he touches her hand and they make eye contact? Or the girl who’s super insecure about herself but gains confidence after her boyfriend compliments her? Or the person with depression magically gets happy again after getting a partner? The same thing happened with Solangelo. At the end of The Blood of Olympus, Nico isn’t yet fully happy, but has gained the things that can make him so- a family, friends, acceptance, support, love, etc. But, after talking to Will (who’s a doctor, may I add) for the first time, all of Nico’s negative thoughts, anxiety, sadness, depression, etc. vanished and all his thoughts were replaced with ‘Will this’ and ‘Will that’. And in ToA- only five months after the war with Gaea- Nico is perfectly fine? As if all that pain and trauma could wash away in only five months? And this isn’t the first time this has happened in HoO. The same thing happened with Leo- he struggled with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc. but after he met Calypso all those internal struggles magically washed away and he was happy only after getting a girlfriend, so it’s obvious Riordan isn’t exactly avoiding this hurtful stereotype.

5. It ruined their characters. Before meeting Will, Nico had a lot going for his character, a development that didn’t need to be completed with a love interest. He was realistic, relatable, and overall one of the best written characters in HoO, and his trauma and struggles were actually really well-written. But, after he met Will, the entirety of his character was ‘Will Solace’s boyfriend’. That’s all Riordan wrote about after he and Will communicated for the first time. Nico didn’t even talk to Reyna, Hazel, Percy (besides telling him he had a crush on him, which- again- is just another part of his love life), etc., and the only time he did talk to someone else (Jason), all he thought about was Will and how he was ‘disappointed’ that it wasn’t him. All of Nico’s character arc, struggles, relatability, and everything else Riordan worked up to his character was destroyed to make room for his love life. As for Will, he was actually quite a cool character- driving around Manhattan on a motorcycle, fighting in the Battle of Manhattan, protecting Camp Half-Blood, sewing Paolo’s severed leg back together, healing Annabeth’s poison knife wound, etc., plus all the cool powers he must’ve had as a son of Apollo. Even his personality was interesting- extremely caring, too dedicated, intelligent, calm, patient, etc., and I was really hoping to see him at his full potential in HoO. But Riordan ditched all the potential Will had for ‘Nico di Angelo’s boyfriend’. Even their personalities were washed away for cute pet names and teasing.

6. The fandom ruined their characters. This was really annoying. At first I mildly disliked Solangelo, but after the fandom’s take on it, I couldn’t stand it. The fans completely destroyed Will and Nico. I mean- is there any post about Will that doesn’t involve Nico in it at one point or another? And there are barely any posts about Nico that doesn’t involve Will or some other male character like Jason or Percy or that doesn’t mention his sexuality. I get that they’re dating, but that doesn’t mean they’re completely dependent on each other now. Another problem is their personalities. The fandom portrays them extremely inaccurately. Will isn’t a super upbeat, cheerful, bright, outgoing, happy-go-lucky guy. He’s actually a serious and determined hard-worker who just cares a lot about people. Just because he’s the son of the sun god and has blond hair and blue eyes doesn’t mean he’s the definition of ‘happiness’. As for Nico, the fandom just gave him a whole new personality as well. I mean- Nico swooning or blushing cause Will called him ‘Sweetheart’ or some other cliche pet name? What? Since when? Solangelo was bad on its own, but the fandom just ruined it completely.

7. Y’all only like it cause it’s gay. Sorry to be the one to say this, but if the majority of you hate Jiper after reading a whole series on them where they actually talked to each other besides about their physical health because it happened ‘too fast’ (which, I agree, it did) but love Solangelo after barely two paragraphs? Why aren’t any of you guys complaining that that went too fast? The reason is pretty obvious. This is a problem most fandoms have- they only like ships (especially canon ships) no matter how unrealistic, unhealthy, or toxic it is because it’s gay. If Nico was straight and Will was a girl but everything else went exactly the same, y’all would’ve hated on it in a heartbeat, but because it’s two guys... yay Solangelo???

I’m gonna get cancelled-

#solangelo #heroes of olympus #percy jackson #nico di angelo #will solace #solangelo isn't that great #stop acting like it is #just cause its gay #ship

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