#anti Snowbarry fandom

[icedteaandoldlace]

A couple years ago, my family and friends had a PowerPoint party where everyone put together a presentation and delivered it before the rest of the group. Mine was on Snowbarry and the fandom drama wrapped up in it, and though I initially wasn’t going to let it see the light of day on the Internet, because I didn’t want a bunch of angry shippers in my DMs, I’ve decided to go ahead and post it (‘cause tbh the worst luck I’ve had in this fandom has been with fellow Westallen shippers).

Quick disclaimer: I love all of these characters and their canon dynamics with each other, so I’m not bashing any of them here. I’m also not saying that anyone is wrong for liking the idea of Barry and Caitlin as a couple, or that shipping them inherently makes someone a bad person. But I am speaking critically about both the ship itself and a good chunk of its fandom (see: reading them for filth), and some of my points will be fact-based and some will be opinion-based. I myself do not ship Snowbarry, and that fact is made very obvious in this post, so bear that in mind if you wish to continue reading.

Also, the images are not sized to Tumblr’s dimensions, so I recommend clicking/tapping to see them more clearly.

As an additional side note, I made this presentation before the major Killer Frost retcon, so Frost is referenced as a part of Caitlin and not as a full-fledged individual separate from her. I’m also disregarding the last two seasons entirely because 8 was trash and I didn’t even bother with 9.

Now on to the presentation.

Just what is Snowbarry, you may ask? Snowbarry is the ship name for Caitlin Snow and Barry Allen, two characters from The Flash, usually shipped in opposition to Westallen (Barry Allen and Iris West), which is the main couple in Flash canon.

If you are not familiar with the characters on this show, take a moment to look at the chart above. Pretty self-explanatory. Got everyone’s names and relationship to each other? Good.

Moving on.

So right off the bat, let’s get into how this ship got its start. Barry Allen is, of course, a comic book character first, and it was already canon in the comics that the love of his life was Iris West, so naturally it followed that she would be the person he’d end up with in the TV adaptation. One noticeable difference between the Iris from the comics and the Iris from the TV show is that Iris in the comics was drawn as a white woman, and Iris in the TV show is played by Candice Patton, a black woman. This caused a big stir among Flash fans before the show even aired, because the TV version of Iris “isn’t comic accurate”.

Neither is Barry, a hunky blond man, now being portrayed by brown-haired beanpole, Grant Gustin, but that detail didn’t get nearly as much or nearly as dramatic of backlash. Most fans are very pleased with Grant’s portrayal of Barry, and some even think he should play him in the DC movie universe. But Candice’s casting was received with an inordinate amount of vitriol, with many fans going so far as to bombard Candice with death threats and other forms of harassment, and people began calling for Caitlin to be Barry’s main love interest since before the first episode even aired.

It’s worth mentioning that Caitlin wasn’t even a Flash character before the TV series; she’s a character from the Firestorm comics who was brought in for this adaptation specifically, so there was no basis to say that she would be a better fit for Barry when there was no preexisting relationship between them in the comics universe. (Comic accurate whom?)

So basically, Snowbarry as a romantic ship was born out of racism, if you didn’t pick up on that already. They became a popular ship, even among people who had liked Iris in the comics, and had their own ship name before anyone had even seen them share screen time. All because they didn’t want to see Barry in love with a black woman.

Now that you know how the ship originated, let’s take a look at some fan arguments for how it maintained its popularity after the show started airing. While there are some Snowbarry shippers out there who will state outright that they don’t like Iris because she’s black, most of them have the sense to not want to be thought of as racist, and have defenses for why they prefer Snowbarry to Westallen.

I have encountered a handful of Snowbarry shippers whose claims are genuine, and who even like Iris/Westallen, or even ship all three of them as a polycule. The majority of Snowbarry fans, though, dislike (if not outright hate) Iris, and claim that their reason for preferring Snowbarry is simply that it’s a better relationship, and/or that Caitlin is simply a better character.

A common argument in defense of this preference is that Barry has more chemistry with Caitlin than he has with Iris. I’ve often heard it said that chemistry is subjective, but it’s hard to believe that Barry and Caitlin have such great chemistry--or even that the people who say they do feel it with conviction--when the Snowbarry fandom relies so heavily on photoshop.

If Barry and Caitlin had such outstanding chemistry, it would show in their scenes together, and it would be easier to find un-manipulated images of them looking like a couple.

Furthermore, if Barry and Iris had such poor (or nonexistent) chemistry, slapping Caitlin’s image over Iris’s wouldn’t make it look like Barry was in love with her. If Barry and Iris were so lacking in chemistry, their scenes together would not be a desirable template to make Snowbarry manips out of.

As a bonus, here’s some shots of Caitlin with her main canon love interest, Ronnie. Ronnie is absent for the majority of season 1, and dead for the entire rest of the series, but he is hands-down the person Caitlin has the biggest case of heart-eyes for, as well as the person she has the most passionate kisses with.

On to the next pro-Snowbarry/anti-Westallen argument, which is that Barry and Iris’s relationship is incestuous. Because as is the age-old fandom philosophy, if you don’t have a good reason to take the moral high ground, make one up.

Do Barry and Iris share DNA? No. This alone makes their relationship non-incestuous, but even when you get into the particulars, their getting together is still...not weird or bad at all.

Did Barry and Iris grow up in the same house? Yes. Starting at age eleven. At which point they already knew each other as friends, and Barry had already developed a crush on her, and then had to deal with moving in with the girl he liked. Because he had no choice.

Are Barry and Iris legally siblings? Technically unconfirmed, but most likely no. Iris does refer to them as “kind of like brother and sister” in the pilot episode, but in the same sentence, she also says the words, “we’re not brother and sister”. And Joe has been referred to as Barry’s guardian, adoptive father, and (unless I’m mistaken) foster father, and Barry has also affectionately referred to him as simply his father, and called him “dad” once. Exactly what the legal terms of Joe’s custody of Barry in his childhood were is unclear, but it’s safe to say Barry isn’t his son in the full legal sense of the word, considering he still goes by his biological father’s name and he didn’t run into any legal issues in marrying Iris.

Regardless, it’s Barry’s relationship with Iris that should determine whether or not his getting with her romantically is weird, not his relationship with Joe. If seeing Joe as a father figure makes getting with his child incest, then you could argue that any combination of Team Flash getting together would be incest because Joe is practically everyone’s dad at this point.

There are scenarios in which a romantic relationship between two characters in a situation like Barry and Iris’s would be weird and uncomfy, and come off as practically incest even though it wouldn’t be in a literal sense. Adoptive siblings do count as ~real~ siblings, and a romantic relationship between two unrelated individuals who grew up under the same roof can absolutely have some of the same negative ramifications that such a relationship between blood siblings could have. But Barry and Iris simply do not have the kind of sibling-like relationship dynamic that would cause those kinds of issues, so that plus the fact that there’s no biological relation between them makes the incest argument, frankly, stupid.

Sure, everyone has their own comfort level on matters like this; the most believable/relatable sibling relationship on this show is between two characters with no biological or legal ties to each other, and who met in their twenties (more on them later), and it makes me viscerally uncomfortable to see people ship them as a couple because they’re too much like brother and sister. But I consider myself an expert on siblings--I have six of them myself--and that’s not what Barry and Iris are.

Perhaps the most common claim among Westallen antis is that Iris is a bad person, or at least a bad girlfriend, or maybe even straight up abusive. These claims are...incorrect, and once again we delve into outright making stuff up, when simply blowing small matters out of proportion doesn’t do the trick. No one is perfect, and Iris is no exception. That doesn’t make her a terrible person.

As a person, Iris is brave, caring, ambitious, stubborn, loyal, charismatic, honest, assertive, forgiving, jealous, selfless, and protective, among other things. As Barry’s partner, she is very gentle and supportive, and she is often the only person who can get through to him when he’s either being too hard on himself, or being too single-minded and needs someone to talk some sense into him. They don’t fight often, but when they do, their issues are usually resolved fairly quickly with open and civil communication. Iris shares the responsibility of protecting the city with Barry, despite not having any powers of her own, in addition to finding ways to help people outside of official Flash business. She has her faults, but overall she’s a pretty good and well-rounded person.

The one negative claim against her in this matter to have some degree of credibility is that the individual fan simply finds her annoying. Annoying is a subjective term, so I can’t really argue that someone is wrong for being annoyed by someone I find to be very lovable. There have been moments where I was annoyed with Iris, and I think that Iris is the bee’s knees. There have also been moments where I was annoyed with Caitlin. And with Barry. And even Cisco (and I’ll fight anyone who dares call Cisco annoying).

What this argument against Iris basically boils down to is nitpicking over her being human and thus flawed. Well-written characters should be wrong now and then, and even the most lovable person can be annoying on occasion. But when it comes to Iris, first of all, a lot of the criticism for her is non-factual, and often wildly so. But also, even when it comes to valid critiques of her, there’s a tendency to focus on the negative when her positive traits far outweigh them--yet when the same or even worse negative traits are present in another character, they’re often excused or overlooked.

I’m not going to pretend that Iris stans aren’t guilty of doing the same with other characters out of bias for their fave, too (and boy do they), but by and large, Iris is the one who is disproportionately judged unfairly and subjected to double standards by the fandom.

If you’re just a fandom puritan hellbent on liking only the most unproblematic of characters, then technically Caitlin should be the one getting more flack since she has the longer rap sheet between the two, and Iris has one of the strongest moral compasses on the show.

As for personal preference? Of course, it’s totally possible that someone “just thinks she’s annoying”--but the tendency of black characters (or any non-white character for that matter), women, and especially black women being labeled “annoying” regardless of personality is a little too common to be taken at face value, so I’m automatically suspicious of anyone who calls her annoying, and bases their whole opinion of her on that, instead of recognizing her merits (because if you haven’t guessed, it’s not very plausible that that many people genuinely find her annoying as a person with no underlying prejudices at play).

Now, there are some people who started shipping Snowbarry during season 1 (y’know, after actually seeing the characters in action), because there was actually some groundwork laid for it. Not much, but it’s not nonexistent. Barry had a few love interests before ultimately getting with Iris, and a fleeting romance with Caitlin was also considered, before Grant vetoed that idea in favor of prioritizing what he felt was the more interesting and satisfying relationship, i.e. Westallen.

There were a few hinting comparisons drawn between Barry and Ronnie in early episodes, and a few platonic-but-in-a-heteronormative-way interactions between Barry and Caitlin. One episode in particular more overtly teased the idea of a possible attraction between them that they were too hung up on other people to recognize, but nothing ever came of it (partly because that episode also served to introduce one of Barry’s temporary love interests, Linda). And even the more shippable moments in it came across as mostly one-sided, and more as Caitlin trying to get over Ronnie than as being truly interested in Barry (spoiler alert: it didn’t work).

There have also been moments of light fanservice with no depth, such as the two kisses pictured above, which are two moments that the Snowbarry fandom treasures, and points to as validation of their ship.

The first is of someone who is not Barry, Caitlin just thinks he is in the moment. It is actually Hannibal Bates (aka Everyman), a shapeshifter who is causing trouble around town by committing crimes while impersonating innocent people. He kisses Caitlin to distract her while she’s trying to work on something to negate his powers, and Caitlin is confused and weirded out by his advances. And while one could argue that she started to seem a little into her second kiss with him, if she was, it didn’t last. Regardless, she was clearly not feeling the first one, she was relieved when she learned that it hadn’t really been Barry putting the moves on her, and she got uncomfortable and jumpy later when, for a split second, she thought the real Barry was going to try to kiss her again (so romanticizing that situation isn’t concerning at all).

For the second pictured kiss, Caitlin was in the middle of a mental breakdown/being taken over by someone whose actions she was strongly opposed to when she was stable and in control, and she kissed Barry not because of any feelings she might have toward him, but with the intention of freezing him to death with her ice powers--yup, she was actively trying to kill him with that kiss.

So to review, there are two Snowbarry kissing scenes in canon, and both of them are:

nonconsensual

not done with romantic intent

not really between Barry and Caitlin

Moving on from the Snowbarry fandom’s perspectives, now it’s time to address the elephant in the room that no Snowbarry stan ever wants to address, and that is the matter of the dynamic of O.G. Team Flash.

As indicated at the beginning of this post, Barry, Caitlin, and Cisco are a best friends trio. This kind of friend group is a common occurrence in both fiction and real life, and in the case of fiction at least, it’s common for there to be a favorite friend (which is almost always the main character).

In the case of the two other trios pictured above, for example, Gordo and Miranda have their own friendship independent of their respective relationships with Lizzie, and Shawn and Topanga similarly have their own friendship independent of their relationships with Cory--but in both cases, each friend has a closer relationship with the protagonist (Lizzie and Cory) than they have with each other.

O.G. Team Flash also has one character who is closer with the other two than they are with each other, and is therefore the favorite friend. And in this case, that friend

is Cisco. By a landslide, it is Cisco. It’s obvious in the show-don’t-tell sense that he is the friend they each have the closer bond with, whom they are both more likely to turn to for comfort or advice, and whom they would rather hang out one-on-one with, given the choice between him or each other. But it’s also implied in the way they talk about each other.

Cisco has referred to Barry and Caitlin both as his best friend, independently of each other, and it’s a tough call to say whether he’s closer with one or the other.

Barry has referred to Cisco as his best friend (singular) multiple times, with no mention of Caitlin, but in the times he referred to Caitlin as one of his best friends (plural), he did so in a way that was inclusive of Cisco. He has never called just Caitlin his best friend the way he has with Cisco (or with Iris, before they started dating).

Caitlin as far as I can recall has never used that term in regards to her friendship with either guy, but it’s obvious who she’s closer with. For that matter, Cisco is easily the most consistent and most important person in her life, whether she is aware of that fact or not. (At this point in the original presentation, my mom interjected to ask why Cisco and Caitlin weren’t the big fandom ship then, and I explained that they act like siblings and canonically think of each other as such, so most of the fandom doesn’t ship them romantically because That’s Weird, and their canon platonic relationship is something that most everyone values as is.)

I mean, heck, in The Icicle Cometh--an episode widely regarded as a ~Snowbarry episode~ because of the amount of scenes Barry and Caitlin get together in it--Barry all but says outright, “Cisco cares about you more than I do.” (pictured above)

Seriously, what does that line even mean if it’s not an acknowledgement that he does?

Of course, many Snowbarry shippers don’t like the fact that Cisco is the favorite friend because it blows holes in their ship, so they rationalize that closeness by likening Barry and Caitlin to his parents, which is all kinds of wrong and gross and just, no.

Considered but not included for this slide (because it would be hard to fit and would’ve required providing context for a room of people who don’t watch the show) was a screencap of Barry asking Frost, aka Caitlin’s other side, “How do you convince your best friend not to save your life?” while referring specifically to Cisco, just to further emphasize my point.

And speaking of Barry and Cisco,

I could do a whole PowerPoint presentation dedicated to why they would be better and more sense as a couple than Barry and Caitlin!

(And for the next PowerPoint party I kind of did, plus I’ve made a few other posts related to this subject.)

It just doesn’t make sense to me to make such a big fuss over two people who are clearly each other’s second-favorite friend. Personally, I’d be a little embarrassed to be shouting from the rooftops about how much better Snowbarry is than Westallen, and how Caitlin is the person Barry really loves and should end up with, when they don’t even like each other as much as they like Cisco.

And for my final slide, here’s some screenshots of Snowbarry fans being awful and unhinged + my commentary on them.

It’s not that Snowbarry is an inherently bad ship or entirely baseless--no more so than many of the other fanon ships for this show--but the fact that it’s as mainstream as it is when it has such little canon support and such weak arguments in favor of it reeks of racism, with a dash of hetero-/amatonormativity. The most sincere and non-toxic Snowbarry shippers I’ve seen around tend to be multishippers and/or rare-pair fans, which is where I see Snowbarry as a romantic ship making the most sense. But for such a large number of people to be adamant that the show should change its trajectory to make Caitlin the love of Barry’s life instead of Iris? That’s just bullshit.

#the written version will probably take longer to get through than the version I presented live #anti snowbarry #anti snowbarry fandom #some brief shade at KV as well #The Flash

[shezowhero]

Virichie and fandom racism towards ships with black characters.

I may not ship Virichie as hard as I do Static X Frieda but I’m glad and appreciate it being popular cause interracial ships with black characters and ships with black characters in general get very screwed over by fandoms. Black characters get very screwed over when it comes to shipping. 

They face alot of backlash and hate. Black characters in interracial ships with white characters especially get alot of hate and backlash. In fact people will lose their absolute god damn minds when black characters are paired up with white characters. 

Ships with black characters often get the least fan content if they get any at all. They’re the least popular ship. They could be a ship that’s been canon for a long time but be the least popular ship in the fandom like Guardianbee for example. Guardianbee has been canon in Teen Titans for a very long time but its the least popular ship and has very little fan content. It doesn’t help that they’re not together in alot of media and the Teen Titans are more outside of comics so its a lack of exposure and racism. 

They will make up all kinds of excuses to to why they don’t ship ships with black characters in them. They’ll things like “They’re just friend” or “Why can’t men and women just be friends” and I totally get this as a girl who had alot of guy friends as a kid and was always asked if we liked each other but people say this alot to ships with characters of color. They say it way too much that its weird. The only one I agree with is Star and Marco. And its never said to all white ships that should just be friends. Also what’s wrong with interracial friends to lovers ? Interracial best friends to lovers is really cool. Its one of the things I like about Virichie and Static x Frieda. 

Another excuse is Familyzone, they say they’re like family or like siblings or they’ll straight up say its incest when its clearly not. They try to familyzone them when it’s never stated in canon that the characters see each other as family. Its more of a fan interpretation or headcanon. I see people trying to familyzone Virichie saying that Virgil and Richie are brothers but its never stated in the show that they see each other as brothers. Its just a fan interpretation. Just because you see them as brothers doesn’t mean we everyone else sees them as brothers. I also use to see Virgil and Richie as brothers but not anymore so I get why people do but maybe don’t say that about a interracial ship. I still see them as family but not in a incest way but in a ”they’re a important part of the family like a family friend” way.

Another excuse they say is its forced while at the same time shipping a all white ship that’s forced. I understand not liking ships that are forced but just like the they’re just friends excuse they say this alot about ships with black characters and interracial ships. And like I said before the only one I agree with is Star and Marco. People ship white characters together all willy nilly all the time but they’re not willing to do the same with black characters and characters of color.

Another excuse when it comes to black women is she too strong. The strong black women trope. The strong independent women trope is progress for white women but its not progress for black women and women of color. You’re saying that black women and women of color don’t deserve love. You’re denying their humanity. Not every black woman is strong and not every black woman can be strong.

My favorite excuse is the “They don’t like good together” Its my favorite cause its very obviously racist like they do not hear themself. It doesn’t matter if they don’t look good together its about the chemistry, how they make each other grow and how the relationship fits the characters and story and other actual shipping reasons. “They don’t look good together” is a very shallow and racist reason to not ship a interracial ship.

The next excuse(s) is a big lie and its “There’s no good well written black characters to ship” and ”there’s no good ships with black characters” The reason why its a totally lie is that there’s alot of good black characters. You just need to consume more diverse media especially diverse media that star black characters. The problem though is that when people do consume diverse media they still only focus on white characters. I see this in the Static Shock fandom with Hotstreak and to a extent Richie. So consume more diverse media and stop focusing so much on the white characters. The whole “there’s no good ships with black characters” It sounds like they’re only caring about canon ships and there’s alot of good ships with black characters that aren’t canon and there’s good ones that are canon. You’re just not looking hard enough. As a mainly canon shipper you don’t always have to ship canon ships especially if they’re not good. Talisto Talia X Mephisto from Lolirock is a good ship and a low key crack ship and its one of the most popular ships in the fandom and it has a black girl in it. People will ship random white characters together all the time but won’t do the same with black characters and characters of color. Talisto isn’t treat as a crackship, if people can ship that than you can ship ships with black characters in them. There’s alot of good black characters and alot of good ships with black characters you’re just not paying attention to them.

Besides making up excuses to why they don’t ship interracial ships with black characters they will make a all white ship to go against it. Reylo and Snowbarry are good example of this. We call them racist ships cause they were made to erase a black character from their romantic relationships whether it’s canon or heavily shipped in the fandom like Finnrey. Reylo was very much created to keep Finn away from Rey and you can tell by how racist Reylo shippers are to Finn and his actor John. Snowbarry was created before the show even aired on TV when only the trailer was out after it was announced Iris was casted as a black girl. Reylo shippers and Snowbarry shippers act the same way to Finn and Iris. And I see this in the Static Shock fandom with the ship Hotgear Hotstreak X Richie. Hotgear was very much created to go against Virichie in the same way Reylo and Snowbarry were except they’re not all that toxic and racist to Static but it’s still very much erases Static in his own story, his own fandom and is white prioritization or white favorism. 

White prioritization is when white characters are prioritize over characters of color despite the characters of color being more important like being the main character like Static. Static Shock is a black lead cartoon when it comes to diverse media you shouldn’t be shipping the only 2 white characters together unless it’s canon cause its racist to only focus on the only white characters in a diverse show. Virichie has no way or power to become canon but Hotgear was very much created to go against cause its heavily shipped in the fandom. Even if not all Hotgear shippers are racist it’s the existence of the ship that’s racist. It doesn’t need to exist. Same with Reylo and Snowbarry. You don’t have to ship Virichie but you don’t need create and ship a rival ship to go against it especially if it made to erase a black character.

This is apart of Fandom racism. Fandom racism is the rejecting of diversity in fandoms and media and the attempt to push characters of color and fans of color out of fandoms to focus on white people, white characters and white fans. Refusing to ships with black characters is apart of Fandom racism.

And it doesn’t matter what type of relationship a black character is in. It doesn’t matter if its a black man with a white girl, it doesn’t matter if its a black girl with a white guy, it doesn’t matter if its a gay, straight or bi ship. It doesn’t matter if its a black character with another person of color. It doesn’t matter if its a black character with another black character. It also doesn’t matter if it’s canon, hinted/being built up to be canon or meant to be canon or canon in past or other materials like comics. It also doesn’t matter if its some what popular, shippable and well liked, it will get hate, backlash and have the least fan content.

For the black man with white girl part I was thinking of Finnrey and Karolsen. Sure black man are paired up with white women alot in media but never in a big sci fi franchise like Star Wars. Comics do it alot too but never in comic adaptations like the Supergirl TV show. The racist backlash to Finnrey and Karolsen is why I don’t care that black men and white women are paired alot with each other but I do agree media should do other types of interracial relationships besides them. 

Finn and Rey actually were going to get together but Disney decide against, most likely cause of the racist backlash. The worst part is that Finn and Rey didn’t even get together, and racists were still threatened by a black man being with a white girl. Besides being meant to be canon, it was just a strong possibility that Finn and Rey were going together and that drive’s them crazy. To this day they’re still racist about Finn. Racist fans treated Finn and James like they were the Black brute trope. Like they were sexual threats to white women which is apart of the Black brute trope but they’re the nicest, sweetest guys in their series.

For the black girl with white guy part I was mostly thinking of Westallen but also Thorkyrie and any time a black girl is paired with a white guy. I’ve made posts about this before with Winx Club about how black women hardly get to be the love interest or get to have a love interest especially a non black love interest. And by love interest I mean the endgame love interest cause the few times they get to be a love interest they’re not the endgame love interest and the white character they were a love interest to gets with a white love interest. A very good example of this is Danny Phantom with Valerie and Danny and how he got with Sam. We call this the Disposable Black Girlfriend trope or Disposable Black love interest trope cause it happens to black men too. 

Back to Westallen remember when I said people will straight up say a interracial ship is incest. They do this to Westallen all the time just because Iris’s dad Joe took Barry in when his mom died and his dad was arrested. Barry only see’s Joe as a father figure. Barry and Iris don’t see or think of each other as siblings. They never acted as siblings. The show never states that they’re siblings just best friends. I’m against incest ships too but Westallen isn’t incest. Keep in mind that Iris has always been Barry’s love interest in the comics, y’know other material. People never had a problem with their relationship until Iris was black.

For the gay bi ships part I was thinking of Dansen and Thundergrace. The Arrowverse has alot of femslash ships but the ones with white women are the only ones that are really popular and some of them aren’t even canon. The Supergirl TV fandom likes to act like they were queerbaited and that there was no lesbian representation but they weren’t queerbaited and there is lesbian representation with Kelly and Alex but since Kelly is black they don’t care, almost as if she don’t count as representation cause she’s black. Kelly and Alex even got married at the end of the show how’s that not representation ?  Its a example of how when people say they want LGBT representation they mean white LGBT representation.

This is getting too long so its time to talk about the most important part so really listen to this part. This isn’t about shipping, this is about a pattern in fandoms in how black characters are treated. Its about how you think black characters are unworthy of being loved. Its about how if this is how you feel about and treat fictional black characters then how do you feel about and treat real black people outside of fandoms ? You probably don’t treat real black people good. If this is how you feel about and think about fictional interracial couples than how do feel and think about real interracial couples ? Probably not good. This is about how black fans and fans of color feel unsafe and unwelcome in fandoms. 

We live in a society were white people are the default cause they made themselves the default. So when white people are not the focus they get mad. Which is why ships with black characters are less popular cause fandoms are very white dominant. By always attacking black characters and ships with black characters has made black fans and fans of color feel unsafe and unwelcome in fandoms making them leave fandoms or have low interacts in fandoms causing black characters and ships with black characters to have less fan content and be less popular. Black fans are the pillars that hold up black characters and ships with black characters up besides unracist white fans. Black fans and fans of color support ships with black characters and characters of color more than white fans. They are more likely to support them than white fans. I have seem white fans shipping Virichie but the major are black fans since it’s a major black fandom. Some of the most recent Virichie fan art have been by white fans. There are Pick me POCs/ White align people of color with internalized racism that are racist to other fans of color and characters of color and its important to point them out cause they are just as hurtful and racist as racist white people.

Virichie being so popular with everyone is so important. The only time I’ve seen a whole fandom ship a interracial ship is the WordGirl fandom with Tobecky (WordGirl X Tobey). Interracial ships with black characters aren’t that popular. Gay bi slash interracial ships like Virichie are especially not popular. The closest I’ve seen be popular is Finnpoe from Star Wars. Virichie being popular is a good thing. The only problems I have with Virichie is that alot of fan content mainly alot of fanfics focuses more on Richie and his point of view of the relationship than Virgil. This is the slight White prioritization towards Richie I mention earlier. I’ve only seen one person point this problem out. There’s only a few fanfics that focus on Virgil’s point of view on the relationship. I like it when there’s fics that give both of their point of views. Like what does Virgil think of being in a relationship with Richie ? How does he feel about liking his best friend ? I also don’t like how it dominants the fan content for Static Shock especially fanfics. There’s almost no gen fanfics and the gen fics that are there are unfinished most likely abandon. Virichie has good fanfics but I don’t always read fics for shipping so it’s a bit annoying.

Virichie being popular is a good thing. Characters of color in general get screwed by shipping but black characters get it much worst. The only time I see characters of colors being in popular ships are light skin east Asian characters especially from Asian media like anime and Latino/Hispanic characters. Shipping is a big part of fandom, it can say some things about a person. Ship what you want but don’t be surprised when people think you’re racist for refusing to ship ships with black characters and interracial ships with black characters especially when there’s nothing wrong them and black fans are okay with them. There’s nothing wrong with Virichie, there’s nothing with Friegil (Static X Frieda ) there’s nothing wrong with Karolsen, there’s nothing wrong with Finnrey, there’s nothing wrong with Dansen and there’s nothing wrong with Westallen and other interracial ships with black characters that get alot of hate for no reasons other than racism.

#Static Shock #Virgil Hawkins #Richie Foley #fandom racism #finnrey #westallen #Karolsen #dansen #friegil #fandomshatepeopleofcolor #supergirl #anti reylo #anti snowbarry #anti hotgear

[shrinkthisviolet]

for the relationship ask game - 11 (Barry & Cisco), 34, & 47

11. [Barry and Cisco] have just stumbled into a fairy ring, and they've forgotten they ever knew each other! What happens now?

My mind went right to that episode of s3 where Barry got amnesia and fell in love with Iris all over again. In a world with Barrisco endgame...he'd be falling for Cisco (all over again, ofc, because he had a crush on Cisco the whole time in this version of events). And since both of them lose their memories, Cisco would be gushing about Barry too.

But of course they'd both try to disguise it as "friendly banter," because neither of them wanna scare off the cute guy who seems to really like them (platonically, they think. Oh, these lovable idiots).

Caitlin and Iris realize that these two will get their memories back by kissing. And both of them know that Barry and Cisco have been crushing on each other for ages, and are still flirting now, but...how to convince them to go for it?

So shenanigans ensue, in which Caitlin and Iris try to set them up, except those plans go a bit awry. But also, in a way, those plans still succeed, because Barrisco fall more in love with each other until one day they go for it and kiss. And all is well!

(Except they "forgot" where the fairy circle was, so the following week, Caitlin and Iris get stuck there 😉)

34. Are there any well-known fanon relationships (not canon), that you just can't stand?

Oh boy. There's quite a list for this one. And mind you, this is only fandom ships that I have a strong opinion on:

Snowbarry, Zutara, Tokka, Zukka, Silverusso, Samhawk, Irosami, Makroh, Cykesquill (not Aurametis ofc 💞 I’m talking about Athena x Simon), Harringrove, Obikin, Anisoka, Narumayo, Dramione (not that I particularly care about HP nowadays, but still)

(I'm not discoursing about these btw, and anyone who tries is getting blocked ✋ the anti tags are there for a reason)

47. Answered here!

fanfic relationships ask game!

#fanfic ask game #barry allen #cisco ramon #barrisco #(some implied snowest at the end) #the flash #anti snowbarry #anti zutara #anti tokka #anti zukka #anti silverusso #anti samhawk #anti irohsami #anti irosami #anti makroh #anti cykesquill #anti harringrove #anti obikin #anti anisoka #anti narumayo #anti dramione

[fortressofserenity]

It’s only misogyny if

There’s a strange undercurrent to the Olicity fandom in that it’s only misogyny if it were directed at Felicity Smoak, if it’s somebody like Laurel Lance she will get bashed a lot regardless of the good things she could’ve done. I have the weird nagging feeling they’re like this because they see her as a threat to the Olicity ship. Like they’re not only too attached to Felicity Smoak, they’re too attached to Oliver Queen to the point of being unable to see him with anybody else.

I feel these people get really possessive of the characters they love, to the point where they’d lash out if somebody points out or portrays one of the characters otherwise. I don’t think they’re feminist in this regard, especially if their standards might already be narrow to begin with. Feminism is supposed to empower every woman, not just the most privileged one around. That’s why intersectional feminism happened, it addresses additional problems those who’re privileged don’t get to experience.

I think this is also the problem with the Snowbarry fandom, they get too possessive of their favourite characters that they bash Iris West a lot for it. Never mind that it’s Caitlin Snow who’s going to become a werewolf, so much for comparing Iris’s actress to a gorilla when it’s Cailtin who’ll be dehumanised big time. I think these fandoms are toxic, in that the only women they like are the women who don’t represent everybody else. Felicity doesn’t represent me in any way.

Same with Caitlin Snow, to the point where I feel Olicity and Snowbarry fandoms are anti-feminist because of this.

#anti-snowbarry #anti caitlin snow #anti-olicity #felicity smoak #caitlin snow #iris west #westallen #laurel lance #arrow #the flash

[cool-krazygirl-world]

These users on here make me sick

DrNotReallyStrange

SnowbarryWaterCooler

and so on

These people I’ve always saw posts on twitter or instagram. They are always making posts saying racists and degrading things about Candice. None of them have ever even met Candice, but for some reason they hate her. I wonder why? Seriously, you’ve never met this woman but you hate her so much. Like, what did Candice to to possibly warrant their hate. Like, what? I bet they wouldn’t even answer the question. 

The truth is Candice did nothing. She has done nothing personally to these people. Yet, they hate her. They base their hate on because they don’t like Iris. They base their hate on social media posts. Imagine hating an actress so much, but still keep up with everything she posts. Or maybe their jealous of Candice? She’s on a hit tv show making money while their sitting at home hiding behind a computer screen with all their hate. I bet they don’t even have the nerve to go up to Candice and say what they say online. Nope, they don’t. They’re too scared to do it. It’s sad and pathetic. They’re disgusting human beings. 

#The Flash #anti snowbarry fandom #Candice Patton deserves better than this crap fandom

[fandomlife-confessions]

#arrowverse #the flash #anti snowbarry fandom #fandom life confessions

[xswestallen]

CAITLIN’S SEXUAL ASSULT IS NOT A SNOWBARRY MOMENT

CAITLIN WAS KISSED AGAINST HER WILL

CLAIMING SHE “KISSED BACK” IS RAPE CULTURE

CAITLIN WAS UNCOMFORTABLE AROUND THE REAL BARRY AFTER

CAITLIN WAS THE VICTIM OF AN ASSULT

IT WAS NOT CUTE

#please stop #caitlin snow #caitlin snow deserves better #anti snowbarry fandom

[keeloves]

Remember when Caitlin Snow was helpful without alterior motives?

Yeah neither do I!

#anti caitlin snow #anti caitlin snow fandom #anti snowest #anti snowbarry fandom

[abberryyang]

But exercising doesn't promote abusive relationships and fridging women.

#anti olicity #anti karamel #anti olicity fandom #literally only y'all #I haven't seen any issues with the other ones #other than the #anti SnowBarry fandom #who decide to go after Candice for her race #y'all disgust me #but I've met too many good SnowBarry fans to say it needs to be shout out to them explicitly #but olicity stans are the worst #and yes #the west/Allen stans who call everyone racist are shitty as well #but damn the olicity fandom is the worst! #karolsen #lauriver #Westallen #stelena #bamon #steroline

[speedforceconfessions]

Do snowbarry shippers and Iris haters not understand metaphors? When people are married or going to be married they start saying "we". You ever hear a husband say "we are pregnant" do you think he's really saying he's carrying a baby in his belly?

Anonymous

#the flash #westallen #iris west #barry allen #anti snowbarry fandom #negativity

[icedteaandoldlace]

Any and all SB shippers out there saying they hope that this is the last we ever see of Ronnie are cordially invited to shut the fuck up.

#anyways Snowstorm is the best Caitlin ship #and I hope it sails smoothly this time #not that I'm getting my hopes up #but god dang she's lost him twice already it's high time he stayed alive! #The Flash #Snowstorm #Ronnie Raymond #Caitlin Snow #anti Snowbarry fandom #s8

[shewhotellsstories]

Kat Graham, Candice Patton, Mehcad Brooks, and Azie Tesfai all deserve so much better.

I’d pretty much given up on TVD by this point but I saw some screen shots on twitter a few weeks back that said circa 2016 Delena stans leaked Kat’s phone number, which is just awful. But I vividly remember reading the youtube comments (clearly I’m a masochist) in high school and seeing Bonnie get called a judgemental bitch for so much as breathing wrong at the Salvatore brothers. Never-mind that they frequently brought death and danger into her life.

And the cherry on top of this sundae of fandom racism. The actors who are literally just doing a job have to see the things you demons tweet at them. And it seems like they don’t get much support from the network. 

Again, they all deserve so much better. 

#fandom racism #misogynoir #candice patton #mehcad brooks #azie tesfai #kat graham #bonnie bennett #iris west-allen #kelly olsen #alex danvers #dansen #westallen #james olsen #karolsen #anti snowbarry #anti supercorp #anti sanvers #anti karamel #dceu #fandomshatepeopleofcolor #the cw #the flash #supergirl #the vampire diaries

[chsesteinarchived]

shitbarry fans have to honestly reach for reasons to hate iris. its pretty sad. 

how could she not know barry had feelings for her? what an idiot: from all accounts of anyone who knew them, barry’s been in love with iris since he met her, how is she suppose to notice anything different about him if he’s always been that way?! come on people. and further more, maybe she did know, but she wasn’t sure if she had the same feeling and/or if they didn’t work out as a couple, she’d loose her best friend. speaking as someone who has a crush on her best friend, the idea of loosing that person is scary as af. cut her some slack 

she’s so selfish she doesn’t care about barry: um.. she spent all of 3b telling barry if saving her meant compromising who he was, her life wasn’t worth it. she would rather he remain the man that he was. how selfish caring more about barry’s soul than her life. we should lock this bitch up right? how dare she. elsa the snowbore used jullian and his feelings for her for her own gain. her words not mine. so..i mean.. really?

she killed savitar, which is a version of barry, she should love and accept all parts of barry: first of all.. wtf? savitar wanted to kill her. she tried to help him but he didn’t want it. she had to make a choice. actual barry or clone!barry who wanted her, and everyone she loved dead? not to mention elsa the snowbore, tried to kill actual barry and cisco. 

candice and grant have no chemistry: you do realize after grant was cast and they decided on making the tv show, they probably auditioned, low balling it here, but probably close to 100 actresses? they all had to do chemistry tests with grant, and this was who they felt was the best. if they thought danielle was better, they would’ve cast her as iris. so if you don’t think they have chemistry than its your own opinion. the flash is a bit more expensive to produce. with all the special effects and stuff, than arr*w so yeah they aren’t gonna fuck it up

the flash is probably one of the highest rated tv shows on the cw if not the highest. arr*w isn’t even acknowledged by DC, the flash is. the reason arr*w is going down in ratings is because they did a fan service with no bases in the comics, and ignored over 50+ years of comic history. the flash isn’t gonna make the same mistake. even if you think 0licity is better than laurviver or shitbarry is better than westallen, the flash isn’t gonna make the same mistake. if you don’t like the way the show is going, stop watching. i hated dullena and i stopped watching tvd. i hated the fact they killed of cami and davina in the same season so i stopped watching the originals. 

instead of bitching, just stop watching and look for shows that have ships/storylines you like. i am just saying 

#anti snowbarry #anti snowbarry fandom

[cool-krazygirl-world]

This post is a response to a certain someone whom is trying to call out the Iris/Candice fans for things some people from their own fandom has done.

Let’s begin

Here are two SBs fatshaming Candice

Moving on

Ooh, here’s a screenshot of someone making a post on instagram spreading lies about CP

You wanna talk about people spreading lies about DP and having lots of followers disgusting you? Well, here’s someone with lots of followers. They tag CP in a post that basically spread a lie about her doing sexual favor

I’m not going any further. My point is that this certain someone doesn’t get to call out Iris/Candice fans and continue to ignore the people from your own fandom. Don’t do that. Until you do, stfu

#The Flash #anti snowbarry fandom

[fandomlife-confessions]

#Anti snowbarry #Anti reylo #Shipping #fandom life confessions

[xswestallen]

The Instagram user andthentheresdanielle is one of the biggest racists in the fandom. Please report her!

She tries to be smart about it, posting her disgusting “rants” like those seen here only in her story, so that when her account gets reported, the Instagram worker reviewing the report only sees what looks like some harmless pictures. But, here are just 2 of the countless examples of hate, ignorance, and racism that she has posted.

In the first one, she shares a post by the user fxckingsnowbarry, remember her? She’s the person who threatened suicide because Candice (a woman she’s never met or even spoken to) apparently drove her to it. fxckingsnowbarry and andthentheresdanielle both play dumb and act like they think the comment literally means Candice is killing people. Everyone knows it was metaphorical. They don’t have anything truly bad to say about Candice, so they use jokes-that weren’t even posted by Candice herself-to compare her to Hitler and Satan. 

I don’t know why, but call Candice Satan, a demon, demonic, or something of the sort is extremely popular in the Candice hate community. All of the worst ones do it: snowbarrywatercooler, fxckingsnowbarry, snowbarry4ever, all do it. It’s so random and bizarre, it’s actually kind of funny. Was there a racist meeting where this was decided on lol?

Now, let’s look at the second example. This is a popular post that a lot of Candice haters cite as their reasons for hating her (because it’s definitely not racism). It’s honestly one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. It alleges that Candice:

Supports rape

Couldn’t be further from the truth. Candice has never said anything in support of sexual violence or any known sexual offender. She has actually spoken in support of the #metoo movement and survivors of rape.

Seduces Grant Gustin

I am dumbfounded by the hypocrisy and stupidity of this claim. First, anti-Candice fans say that Grant hates Candice. Now, they’re accusing her of “seducing” him. First, even if Candice was trying to/did “seduce” him, that’s not a crime. She couldn’t force him to have feelings for her. But second, there is no evidence whatsoever that Grant does have any feelings for or attraction to Candice. He’s engaged to someone else. It’s part of his job to be affectionate with Candice, they’re acting. This is really just a compliment to Candice’s performance as Iris, because apparently it’s very believable!

Throws shade at Andrea Thoma

When has Candice ever said or done anything to hurt Grant’s fiancee, LA Thoma? She hasn’t. There is no evidence that Candice has any problem with or LA or vice versa. (By the way, her name is LA. Everyone calls her LA. If you actually cared about her instead of just using her to try and make Candice look bad, you’d know that nobody calls her Andrea.)

Hates Danielle Panabaker

Again, this is an assumption. When has Candice said she hates Danielle? When has she done anything to hurt Danielle? Unfollowing Danielle on social media doesn’t mean Candice hates her. 

Promotes reverse racism

The phrase “reverse racism” is illogical. It implies that only one form of racism has ever existed (white people oppressing black people), so there can be a reverse. Racism isn’t so simple that it can be “reversed”. This phrase excludes all other poc, ignoring racism they face. It also implies that Candice and other anti-racism advocates who promote ending oppression of black people is the equivalent of oppressing white people. It’s not.

Did plastic surgery

There is no evidence that Candice has even gotten plastic surgery. She posted on her Instagram about doing some kind of fat melting treatment, but that’s it. It wasn’t surgery. But, even if Candice did get or ever does get plastic surgery, that doesn’t make her a bad person. It’s her body and she has every right to so whatever she wants with it. 

Fucked up her body

This allegation makes no sense. What you consider fucking up, others might consider beautiful. And again, it’s Candice’s body, so her opinion is the only one that matters. Also, why so much judgement of a person based on physical appearance? How a person looks has nothing to do with who they truly are.

Her stans

There are some Candice fans who are mean. So? That’s not Candice’s fault. She’s never met them. She isn’t responsible for what her fans do, she has no control over their actions. By this logic, Danielle Panabaker is responsible for everything her fans have done. But, when one bad fan is called out, all the other Danielle fans scream that not everyone is like that. Why can’t you give Candice fans the same reasonable assessment?

Call her fans bitches

When? And, why would you care if you hate her fans so much?

Thinks she is superior to everyone

Candice has never said she’s superior to anyone. This is all your interpretation of her.

Has no respect for women

Candice and Caity Lotz started a feminist organization, Shethority. Candice spoke out against Pop Funko for their sexist exclusion of female characters. 

Probably slept with the producers?

Another wild accusation with no evidence. The question mark makes me think the person who wrote this doesn’t even believe it.

Walks around naked in front of little children

Candice tweeted about an embarrassing experience where she once ripped her pants in front of children and didn’t have underwear on. It happened one time, it was an accident, and the rest of Candice’s body was clothed. This is insinuating that Candice routinely parades fully nude in front of kids. Not true at all.

464849 more reasons

Candice haters always say they have so many reasons to justify their hatred, but they really don’t. They’ll name a few, but once you point out the straw-man arguments and hypocrisy of those reasons, they can give any more.

I honestly believe a child had to be the original author of this. The “no lies no exaggeration just fax” is so juvenile that I can’t see anyone over the age of 15 ever writing that. As I just pointed out: this was all lies, not just exaggerations but defamation which you could be sued for, and no facts.

Remember, these are ONLY 2 of the many posts this user has which are just as ignorant and hateful. Please go report this account!

#sorry this is so long but I want everyone to see #the flash #candice patton #candice patton defense squad #iris west #iris west defense squad #westallen #tw: racism #anti snowbarry fandom #the flash cast #fandom wank