#asoiaf women

[fandom-trash-goblin]

IN DEFENSE OF LYANNA STARK

Andrei Tarkovsky, Journal 1970-1986 // Martyr in the Catacombs by Jules Cyrille Cavé // A Game of Thrones, Chapter 30, Eddard VII, GRRM

lyanna stark || elia martell || sansa stark || arya stark || alicent hightower || jaehaera targaryen || cersei lannister || myrcella baratheon || joanna lannister || aemma arryn || catelyn stark || sansa stark (2) || margaery tyrell

#lyanna stark #webweave #webweaving #web weave #asoiaf #pro lyanna stark #but also pro elia martell; which will be another post #asoiaf women #listen she was a desperate girl #webweaves: asoiaf #listen asoiaf is the obsession of the week

[startwi-light]

ASOIAF WOMAN 2/x: SANSA STARK

Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor. Men would say she had my look, but she will grow into a woman far more beautiful than I ever was, you can see that. I often sent away her maid so I could brush her hair myself. She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft... the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.

— ACOK, CATELYN VII

#game of thrones #got #asoiaf #asoiaf moodboard #a song of ice and fire #sansa stark #house stark #asoiaf women

[thetudorslovers]

Princess Daena Targaryen, also known as Daena the Defiant, was the eldest daughter of King Aegon III Targaryen and Queen Daenaera Velaryon. She was the sister-wife of King Baelor I Targaryen, and was the mother of Daemon Blackfyre, her bastard son by the future King Aegon IV Targaryen.

The most famous of three sisters, Daena was much loved, both for her beauty and courage. Daena was wild almost from birth. A Targaryen to the bone, she was strong, beautiful, and wilful and like the rest of her siblings had Valyrian looks. Her long silver-gold hair was thick and curly, an untamed mane that framed her heart-shaped face and her sparkling purple eyes. To top it off, she had a fearless "I'll dare anything" smile.

#daena targaryen #perioddramaedit #asoiaf #asoiafedit #asoiaf women #kaitlyn dever #perioddramasource #george r r martin #house targaryen #daena the defiant #pre asoiaf #preasoiafedit #pre got #game of thrones #gotedit #asoiaf/got #aegon iv targaryen #aegon iii targaryen #baelor targaryen #baelor the blessed #women of asoiaf #asoiaf ladies #userbbelcher #userstream #userrobin #userthing #preaasoiaf #valyrianscrolls #valyriansource #gotasoiafsource

[ladymarys-blog]

3 looks for Helaena Targaryen.

I didn't like her costumes in the show so I made 3 for her.

Game by: Kinibe.

#queen helaena targaryen #helaena targaryen #house of the dragon #hotd #house targaryen #asoiaf #asoiaf ladies #asoiaf women #dress up game mekier

[horizon-verizon]

You know what truly annoys me in ASOIAF ? That there are no queen regnants apart from Rhaenyra and that was a disaster in terms of what happened [and the fact that she was ignored as such and disputed if she was one]. Sure, we’ve had regents here and there [Sharra Arryn, Johanna Lannister, Jeyne Arryn, Lysa Arryn] and a few other ladies who ruled as lords, but that’s not the same, and the Iron Throne only had Alyssa Velaryon and Cersei Lannister as queens regents. And, again, a regent’s power is limited and with the understanding that her time will end when her son will take his throne. (There’s obviously iconic queen regents such as Catherine de’ Medici or Isabella of France)

[To be fair, there are “queens” regnant in Dorne, princesses, technically speaking, such as Doran’s mother, but even though it was never “conquered” by the Targaryens and the rules that apply to the rest of the kingdoms do not apply to Dorne, they are still subservient to the Iron Throne.]

And the thing is that although GRRM is using historical inspiration, it is taken into a fantasy realm where you don’t have to stick to the rules of our reality and history. England had two queens regnants in a row, Mary I and Elizabeth I, and both women were legally bastards. That is the single point of my thought is that it is his choice, as a writer, not to have any queen regnants even in pre-ASOIAF or prior to Aegon’s Conquest, and when he does [disputed] it is not a success [Rhaenyra’s story, I suppose, can be read as the Empress Matilda/Stephen of Blois struggle]. It’s his choice to turn Rhaenyra into the loser of that battle, his choice to have her set on fire and eaten alive in front of her 10-year-old son, his choice to have her remembered as a paranoid and cruel tyrant, a usurper or traitor as Stannis calls her. It is also his choice not to have another female heir. That could have easily been done in the past events.

*EDITED POST* 4/12/24

I answered another aks like this HERE (especially the reblog I made of it OR post).

Focusing on "That is the single point of my thought is that it is his choice, as a writer, not to have any queen regnants even in pre-ASOIAF or prior to Aegon’s Conquest, and when he does [disputed] it is not a success [Rhaenyra’s story, I suppose, can be read as the Empress Matilda/Stephen of Blois struggle]. It’s his choice to turn Rhaenyra into the loser of that battle, his choice to have her set on fire and eaten alive in front of her 10-year-old son, his choice to have her remembered as a paranoid and cruel tyrant, a usurper or traitor as Stannis calls her. It is also his choice not to have another female heir. That could have easily been done in the past events."

I think some of us struggle with GRRM's insistence on "historical precedence" vs how he decides to use such events to end up with condensed re-imaginings and visions of these events through ASoIaF. Because he does well enough for us to notice his flaws or him limiting himself to what exactly anon is pointing out.

A) No Queen Regnants

1.

There were Andal-FM lady "regnants" or queen regnants in the various kingdoms before the Conquest, but as you state, they are either nameless or violently murdered/attacked/or denied leadership (Shiera Blackwood, Agnes Blackwood, Argella Durrandon, Marla Sunderland, etc.) GRRM is very guilty of featuring/showing/giving names or attention to those women who were deposed, put aside for any succession dispute, or violently put aside/murdered/mutilated for his female lady & queen regnants--either/both Targ or pre-Conquest Andal-FM women. And in association or necessary plot event to a man gaining power.

I already mentioned Rhaena (Alyssa Velaryon & Aenys I's firstborn child) in the linked post above but only for her w/Jaehaerys' decisions and not Aenys or Aegon I's decisions that made a female claim lose to her younger brother, Aegon the Uncrowned, when considering who'd succeed after Aenys.

This is how it happened "The Sons of the Dragon":

I also did not explain how this would have happened in that linked post.

Rhaena was born only two generations (23 A.C., "After Conquest", so 23 years after their Conquest) after the conquerors conquered Westeros, and unified it under their own new hegemony. We can see during Aenys' reign that the Faith expected the Targs to put away their incestuous sibling marriage custom and stick to first-cousin-to-unrelated Andal-Faith-approved marriages. They were very willing to militarize themselves against the Targs after Aenys announced Rhaena & her brother's marriage AND after Maegor took more than one wife after Ceryse Hightower didn't birth any kids. But even before all that, Visenya was even one to suggest not allowing Rhaena to be the heir apparent, but marrying her to Maegor to "combine" their claims while making Maegor the next in line for succession.

For the story & timeline GRRM created, yes he chose to make the 2 living conquering Targaryen rulers choose to make the succession less open to a female ruler for political convenience & Targayren-dynasty surety.

2.

But you: "And the thing is that although GRRM is using historical inspiration, it is taken into a fantasy realm where you don’t have to stick to the rules of our reality and history. England had two queens regnants in a row, Mary I and Elizabeth I, and both women were legally bastards."

Nothing against you, anon, but after you say "it's taken into the fantasy realm where you don't have to stick to the rules of our reality and history"...

you then go on to use Mary I & Elizabeth I ("our reality and history") to point out why we should have had more female monarchs specifically on the Iron Throne in Westeros. And neither of these women ruled when Henry already had a male heir in Edward VI, younger than them both. So it seems we are returning to using historical precedent to justify more women becoming rulers in their own, more little-to-uncontested and unshared right.

there were de jure medieval queen or lady regnants, some of them actually practicing real power and celebrated by some contemporary chroniclers--esp if they ruled well to (some) their standards OR they were co-rulers to husbands OR were seen as "helping" them rule: Urraca de León, Empress of "Spain" [1109 – 1126]; Isabella I of Castile and León [1474–1504]; *her daughter, Juana I of Castile [1504 –1555]; *Æthelflæd of Mercia [911–918 AD]; her daughter, Ælfwynn [918]; Mary of Hungary & Croatia [1382-1385; 1386-1395]; Jadwiga of Poland [1384–1399]; Tamar of Georgia [1184-1213]; her daughter Rusudan of Georgia, after her brother [1223–1245]; Claudine, Lady regnant of Monaco [1457–1458]; Joanna I of Naples, similar ascension story to Rhaenyra [1343–1382]; Joanna II of Naples [1414-1435]; Amalasuintha the Ostrogoths, who was deposed & killed after only a few months [534-535]; Petronilla of Aragon [1137-1164]; Berengaria of Castile [6 June – 31 August 1217]; *Blanche I, Queen regnant of Navarre [1425-1441]; Eleanor of Navarre [January 1479–February 1479]; *Catherine of Navarre [*1483, but really kinda 1494-1517 and even her rule is debatable]

the period after the medieval era is the "early modern period", when Henry, Mary, Edward, and Elizabeth all ruled England and when the original proceedings for a more powerful sort of monarch began, a pseudo-absolute monarch in England...while under Henry VIII this absolution was more concrete as he directed it more than it directed him, "ruling" his break away from the Church to become the head of England affected how much ability his kids would have to rule according to their circumstances

Mary & Elizabeth's legitimacy was reinstated by the Parliament passing the 3rd Act of Succession of 1543 so no they were no longer "bastards" -- but in Westeros, there has been no incident--extant or accepted -- where a parent delegitimizes their own child even though the parents were undoubtedly married, reverses it, and neither does Westeros have anything like a Parliament or a branch of government that in any way "checks" the monarch nor does this supposed body have the governemental power over the land...as Westeros never has nor has not a constitutional monarchy. It was also not exactly like a pre-17th century commonwealth, where the idea is that the state's government is for the "public welfare, general good or advantage", which even then is practically "an association of self-governing autonomous states more or less loosely associated in a common allegiance (as to the British crown)". Presumably, no one has ever tried, which doesn't mean they couldn't if they had the mind and practical ability to do so, as Henry VIII did. Plus no council or legislative body can just rule for the reinstatement of two female claimants. The regents surrounding Aegon III, Unwin Peake, and his own council are not the same as a Parliamant or voting body. Even after Pope Pius VI declared Elizabeth illegitimate in 1570 in response to the failed Catholic uprising and attempt to bring her cousin Mary, Queen of Scots in the Rising of the North of 1569, Elizabeth continued to rule because other Catholic rulers didn't think it a pragmatic measure to take, instead encouraging more religious persecution of Catholics in England AND "provoked the English government into taking more repressive actions against the Jesuits, whom they feared to be acting in the interests of Spain and the papacy. This reaction soon seemed justified: it was the publication in England of Pius's exhortation that gave the impetus in 1571 to the Ridolfi plot, in which the Duke of Norfolk was to kidnap or murder Queen Elizabeth, install Mary, Queen of Scots, on the throne, and then become de facto king by marrying her". The pope after Pius declared Catholics in England should obey Elizabeth. We don't have something this convoluted in Westeros because we just have Westeros as the "EU" monarchial power.

Again, England's monarchy had separated itself from the papacy's influence when in 1534 Henry VIII declared himself the head of the new English church through the Act of Supremacy, got involved with the English Reformation of the Church and its practices, and divorced himself from Catherine of Aragon to marry Elizabeth's mother Anne Boleyn. Meanwhile, Westeros' "papacy" is still very and officially a power in Westeros of its own right at the moment of Aegon-Aenys-Maegor. All this to say that England wouldn't have or would have had a less probability of getting its two queens without Henry breaking away from the Church altogether & limiting his succession options.

Westeros is styled more after a feudal monarchy, where the "rules" are bound more by individuals' power & ideals of leadership and is modeled more from England-France-Germany (northern EU) and Dorne is like a Spanish-Italian state that came under the Westerosi monarchy not because they lost any battle but because of a few diplomatic meetings plus some "lower" level violence.

3.

You also mention the "Empress Matilda/Stephen of Blois struggle"; yes, the Dance mirrors the 1138–1153 Anarchy civil war of England & Normandy. I would say that GRRM purposefully uses this specific event for the Dance to provide context for the stakes of Daenerys Stormborn's own claim and what she will have to face--the result of Rhaenyra losing precipitating the loss of cosmic and political balance not just for noblewomen ruling in Westeros or being safe(r) from abuse and gender violence, but also the loss of dragons for the Long Night/re-empowerment of the Others, as women having more autonomy and power is nearly synonymous with cosmic balance and potential political stability in ASoIaF's themes. Again, fantasy fiction using history as its base & really depends on the big strokes of how those real events -- who ruled in the beginning, what battles, who invaded whom, who ruled by the end.

Matilda the Empress did not die such a cruel or heinous death at her own brother or anything like it nor did her children die such gory deaths. Her son Henry Plantagenet/Henry II did not become this depressed ghost who could only receive happiness after marrying a girl whose beauty was as praised as his own mother's (Daenaera). The result of the anarchy was that Stephen of Blois became King, but Matilda's son became his designated heir over his own living son. He tried & failed to get his son Eustace to become his heir but Pope Eugene III refused, and Stephen got into a lot of intense arguments about it with the clergy... ironically Aegon II had an "easier" time of it since (if we argued that the Faith sent the Shepherd) he got rid of his "clergy" problem by just burning the Shepherd alive. This is what Wikipedia says:

Henry [Matilda's son] invaded England and built an alliance of powerful regional barons to support his claim for the throne. The two armies met at Wallingford, but neither side's barons were keen to fight another pitched battle. Stephen began to examine a negotiated peace, a process hastened by the sudden death of Eustace. Later in the year Stephen and Henry agreed to the Treaty of Winchester, in which Stephen recognised Henry as his heir in exchange for peace, passing over William, Stephen's second son. Stephen died the following year.

At the same time, Stephen of Blois got to rule for more than 10 years to Aegon's 2-yr, uncontested months-long rule. And instead of Aegon II ruling "peacefully", we get Corlys and Larys both plotting his assassination and paving the way for Aegon III PLUS Rhaenyra's supporters still trying to get Aegon off the throne after her death.

B) Legacy

1.

You're right that in fantasy we could have a lot more freedoms or changes AND we never even get to the sort of female rule/Queen regnant that even co-ruled with a man bc Rhaenyra is killed...

but the very acknowledgment of "changes" reveals that there is truth to how real historical accounts characterized, ignored, or left out critical details to make female monarchs or leaders seem to the less favorable option or to feed more into a particular male-prioritized agenda at the time of writing.

Even though some supported some women like Urraca and complimented her legacy there were still those main accounts against her or writing disfavorably of her, as I write about that HERE. poorpaintedshadowedqueens writes about sexist "historians" and some examples HERE:

For example, the Anglica Historia of Polydore Vergil, which dates from the first half of the 16th century, purports to cover the history of England from its mythological founding to the reign of Henry VIII. Vergil was actually quite meticulous about his sources and made decent efforts to incorporate a lot of different material, but especially as he gets closer to his own lifetime, his biases really begin to show. He includes a scandalous story about King Richard III lusting after his teenaged niece Elizabeth of York and poisoning his wife in order to marry her. Elizabeth, according to him, was disgusted by this prospect and swore she would kill herself before allowing him to dishonour her. But Vergil also includes the detail that Elizabeth’s own mother sent her daughters to court because “so mutable is that sexe” that she fell prey to Richard’s flattery.

Now, when Vergil first came to England, Elizabeth of York was the queen, so he had to tread lightly when talking about events from her own history. But his job was also to make her husband King Henry VII look better, and his predecessor (from whom he’d usurped the crown) look worse, so Elizabeth became a tool Vergil used to blacken Richard III’s reputation.

How does Rhaenyra become more remembered as more paranoid and cruel? Through the book, Fire & Blood's amalgamation of different accounts told both during and after the Dance, with only 3-4 account-tellers being used before the Dance. But before the book existed & Gyldayn wrote it (at the latest, Robert's rule), only these myriad and often conflicting but not first-hand witnessed accounts told Rhaenyra's story. And still, we know that it is only after Rhaenyra raises the taxes on the King's Landing'ers that she's been called "Maegor with Teats". Finally, the maesters have always been in league or supportive of both the Faith/House Hightower bc the Hightowers patronize the Citadel and have had its members joining both the Citadel or the Faith institution, even a few becoming High Septons. There is and is going to be some heavy bias against the female dragonriding Targ who pushes for her claim to the throne. Something the majority nor the most vocal of fans (esp men) have not truly analyzed or considered. Aegon II is not even remembered that fondly.

2.

I also think that is important to consider how in the canonical memory of Rhaenyra being just a tyrant, it is men who claim such. Arianne Martell claims the throne was always hers. Both are trying to legitimize their own political campaigns for the throne, not just focusing on performing acts that have nothing to do w/the Iron Throne.

C) HOWEVER!!!

Yes, GRRM could have chosen to have at least one or two more generations between Maegor and Jaehaerys by making Aerea Queen, then her having a daughter who'd become queen but then only rules for a few years until deposed, then we have a Jaehaerys I figure (I would have done it this way) and we still retain this point about women not being allowed to rule...we'd have to then question how strong the impact of Rhaenyra's fall would have been though, with a single female monarch existing before her already.

#asoiaf asks to me #asoiaf writing #asoiaf women #rhaenyra and feminism #westeros succession #westerosi history #women in westeros #medieval history #medeival europe

[emproleon]

-Princess of Dragonstone and Heir to The Iron Throne-

#rhaenyra targaryen #house of the dragon #game of thrones #asoiaf #house targaryen #a song of ice and fire #hotd #hotd art #rhaenyra art #asoiaf fanart #fanart #my art #happy women’s day to targ ladies yall deserved better

[visenyaism]

"weird about Dany"

i'm afraid to ask but are people like really not ok with her vaguely hinted ending from the GOT Show?

what do you mean. they literally had her go crazy in the span of an episode because the man in her life abandoned her and her subjects just didn’t love her enough and she’s just so emotional so she had to murder thousands of civilians and then had tyrion say well we should’ve known because she freed the slaves too hard so that her romantic partner would put her down like old yeller. This was extremely sexist and very bad.

#asoiaf #guys we remember the showrunners literally hated women and minorities and lgbt people right. and that was expressed in the show

[all-lee24]

I would love to see your take on Brienne!

“Winter will never come for the likes of us.”

#ASOIAF #brienne of tarth #armor briennneeeeee is just think the Tarth colors/sigils are cool #I feel like I didn’t make her buff enough I’ll have to try again #7ft tall dumb but sweet women my beloved #arttag

[daenystheedreamer]

#people's princess ^_^ #stole this from a terror meme. im sorry women #yes i made the eyes bluer. that's girlie #stannis baratheon #asoiaf

[swordmaid]

cers in the anne hathaway 2023 met gala fit 🤍💛

#cersei lannister #asoiaf #mine. #WHREW MAMA...... #she looks too good i love women 😳

[daenerysies]

something something ‘feminine’ female characters being deserving of all things good and righteous and holy because of them overcoming their suffering by working within the system that hurts them using their wiley feminine attributes and charm something something ‘masculine’ female characters being villainized for fighting outside the constraints of the system they’re still subjected to in a more hands on approach and being victims of similar if not the same circumstances as their ‘feminine’ female peers but it doesn’t count for some reason because they don’t suffer as prettily as their counterparts something something

#asoiaf #rhaenyra targaryen #daenerys targaryen #arya stark #lyanna stark #brienne of tarth #can we like. not do this shit ever again? #i *loathe* the feminine v masculine arguments #why are you appropriating harmful stereotypes onto women? #wack ass #women are women at the end of the day #whether they’re gnc or trans or any other label #all deserving of a better life #what’s not clicking

[asharaxofstarfall]

i do not like the dany and rhaenyra stans that hate on sansa and alicent for "bowing down to the patriarchy" and "not stopping their oppression". dany goes through a traumatic marriage at thirteen in which she is regularly raped to the point of contemplating suicide. she forces herself to love her husband and make him love her to spare herself more abuse. she then gets pregnant with his child and goes through a horrific birthing and loses her baby at only fourteen. this whole situation is very, very common for women in their society. the only difference is that daenerys gains three dragons at the end. they empower her and help her move forward to claim her 'birthright'. let's looks at sansa in comparison. she is sold off as a child bride at twelve years old. her betrothed arranges for her to be publicly stripped and beaten. she is then married to the son of the man that killed her brother. her new husband sexually assaults her on her wedding night, but does not rape her. pretty much every man that she encounters tries to sexually harass and assault her. she escapes her marriage and is now being groomed by her mothers childhood friend. she knows that his feelings and actions towards her are wrong, but he's all she has. sansa has to use "a womans courtesy and grace" to get herself out of potentially harmful situations. we also see this with dany's 'seduction' of drogo. the only difference is that sansa is never given dragons to protect herself like daenerys is. she still has to rely on herself. people call rhaeneryas dragon moments 'badass' and put alicent down for sticking to the patriarchy. alicent sticks up for herself by calmly telling her husband that he can take her daughter away from her when she is cold and dead in her grave. that is the only thing she can do in that situation, and its a a risky thing to say to her groomer, abuser and husband (who is also the king) but she still does it to protect her daughter. when alicent is feeling lost, she prays to the mother. when rhaenerya is feeling lost, she rides syrax. alicent and sansa (and even cersei) are not afforded with magic and fantasy to escape their abuse, they have to do the best they can with what little power the average noble woman is given in their society.

#this post is NOT anti dany or rhaenerya #it's just pointing out that certain stans put down women for not having magical creatures to empower them and stop their oppression lol #alicent and catelyn and cersei and sansa are all normal women in westoros #alicent hightower #pro alicent hightower #pro sansa stark #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #also I'm talking about book dany and sansa and show alicent and rhaenyra #house of the dragon #hotd #sansa stark

[thetudorslovers]

Lady Larra Rogare was a member of House Rogare of Lys. She married Prince Viserys Targaryen, the younger brother of King Aegon III Targaryen. With Viserys, Larra had three children: King Aegon IV, Prince Aemon, and Queen Naerys Targaryen. She eventually abandoned Viserys and returned to Lys. And was considered a great beauty. She had pale skin, and the silver-gold hair and purple eyes of Valyria. She was tall and willowy and dressed in Lysene fashion, even during her time in King's Landing.

Larra was fluent in High Valyrian and the dialects of Lys, Myr, Tyrosh, and Old Volantis, but not the Common Tongue. She worshiped several deities, including Pantera, Yndros of the Twilight, Bakkalon, and Saagael. According to Mushroom, Larra liked to hear the music played by Sandoq, her guardsman, on a large stringed instrument, although it always made her cry.

On the eve of Smith's Day in 136 AC, Larra gave birth to her second son, Aemon. Two years later, she gave birth to a daughter, Naerys. Larra never felt part of the court at King's Landing, however, and was never truly happy in Westeros. In 139 AC, a year after having given birth to Naerys, Larra returned to Lys. She eventually died in 145 AC of unknown causes. Viserys, an otherwise charming man, grew stern after Larra left him and their children.

#asoiafedit #asoiaf quote #pre asoiaf #larra rogare #got #targaryen #free cities #old volantis #preasoiaf #preasoiafedit #viserys targaryen #aegon iii targaryen #aegon iv #aemon targaryen #naerys targaryen #sophia myles #lys #game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf women #asoiaf ladies #asoiafwomensource #valyriansource #valyrianscrolls #old valyria #aemon the dragon knight #aegon the unworthy #gotasoiafsource

[ladymarys-blog]

The Sand Snakes of Dorne

Obara Sand.

Nymeria Sand.

Tyene Sand.

Sarella Sand.

Game by: Elequinoa.

#sandsnakes #sand snakes of dorne #dorne #house martell #martell #obara sand #nymeria sand #tyene sand #sarella sand #asoiaf ladies #asoiaf women #asoiaf #oberyn martell #elequinoa #mekier dress up #mekier

[horizon-verizon]

Was I the only one frustrated by the fact that there were no Targaryen Queens? I know in canon ( the dance ) was the reason why that was, but It feels like it was aa deliberate choice from George.

You mean Queen Regnants? Women who ruled in their own right altogether? A female monarch who could pass or abolish laws and practices without having to use emotional influence, just full political powers?

A)

Well, anon, this is a territory in a fantasy series adapted from many real-life medieval sociopolitical structures and patterns of behavior and ideology. In real life, there were various women who were EU Queen Regnants or ruled like one, but their world/soceities was/is still patriarchal.

The preferred and much more often case was a male ruler, and a female royal consort (Queen Consorts).

You have less female monarchs in Europe going back even further, into the 10A.Ds, 20 B.C.s, 100 B.C.s, etc. With, of course, notable exceptions, like Boudicca (actually a chief, not a Queen but goes under the category of autonomous female leaders) or the much later example of Catherine the Great.

B)

The pre-conquest Targs and Valyrian dragonlords did not seem to allow women the same exact same level of power as men, similar to some real classical /Near East ancient peoples, And I mean the number of female to male leaders. There were female monarchs in the medical era, yet they were also thought unfit or inappropriate rulers until they "proved" useful or could claim that they were supporting a male ruler.

Valyrian women, I think, were definitely treated better than Westerosi women were and could hold much more power and public respect on her own merit than can a Westerosi woman can, but a man would still be the official leader of the clan/house/etc. 

Over the course of the Targ dynasty, we see the house’s women/Queen Consorts have less and less active and law-affecting political power. (post by @brideoffires)

C)

Then there is the fact, after reading Fire and Blood or even just by reading the ASoIaF wiki pages on the Targs starting from Aegon and his sister-wives (carefully, we still need the books) to the Great Council, we see that the Targ men turn against their female relatives for the sake of power and assimilation into Westerosi culture (for the sake of a stable rule, less rebelliousness) -- especially Maegor I and Jaehaerys I. 

D)

Jaehaerys I was loathe to allow a female heir partially due to his fear of rebellion after his own uncle brought in a few years of high intensity cruelty, but also because Jaehaerys himself didn’t seem the type to believe in women being good leaders or thought they should stick to their strict Westerosi gender roles and “duties”.

He talks to Alysanne condesecndingly about the right of first night and despite her protests and frankness about its affect, he proves loathe to abolish it and start more contention with the Westerosi lords. Really it’s after Septon Barth, on of his most trusted councillors, supports and reasons along with Alysanne that he finally gives in. 

He disproves of Rhaena, his older sister, threatening the Lord Farman after the same lord refused to allow her entry or stay at his castle with his own insulting words (that she responded to). 

He calls his own daughter a slut/whore (Saera), saying she was “always” one and prevents Alysanne from trying to bring her back or any sort of beginning of a reconciliation by pushing most of the blame for her escape and distance on her instead of himself and admitting his comparatively more fault.

He ignored Alysanne’s frequent protests against him passing over Rhaenys and Daenersy as his official heirs when he could have. 

It is not until in a supremely ironic turn of events where the man that is chosen by the Council that Jaehaerys I himself allows that we finally have a female heir to the throne: Rhaenyra.

Even though Viserys had been trying to sire a male, he does what Jaehaerys would have never done -- name a girl/woman his heir and future Monarch. And it is through how before her there was never a female heir/ruler (just princesses of the blood and consorts) that we understand how Rhaenyra’s reign would have had brought about a beginning of a great and indelible change in women’s power and value in a system that uses Andal male primogeniture to keep women from excercising power. Basically, Rhaenyra was/is the opening of a new book (forget the “chapter”) of Westerosi history. Women would have just that much more consideration in other houses’ succession events, even if that takes a few more decades. 

From a sociopolitical standpoint (before Dany) everything rode on Rhaenyra being able to rule and have her word mean law just as a male ruler’s would. It wouldn’t make women all of a sudden be able to be seen as full people, but it is a good start for the context we have.

It is through struggles of power that shifts in political and ideological structures happen, one of the main themes and uses of war GRRM explores.

E)

Before the Targs, the Andal-FM Westerosi lords each had their own individual kingdoms and fought each other for land, revenge, glory, etc. Again, for thousands of years.

There actually were some Andal queens, but they were outnumbered and rarely actually named in comparison to their male counterparts. We don't even know how many were rulers in their own right versus Dowager's and Regents.

Andal/FM patriarchy has been in deep since way before the Targs conquered Westeros and the customs favoring male leadership is the basis/stage of which the Targ males asaimilated into to consolidate their own power. GRRM condenses a bunch of intrigue and generational chaos within about 5 generations of the Targ dynasty of the males, compared to thousands of years of Westerosi male-preference primogeniture and intense misogyny (compared to Valyrian gender politics).

So yes it was a deliberate choice from GRRM. Just not totally in the way I think you are thinking.

Addition#1:

I didn't include this because I was focusing on Fire and Blood's plotline, but this whole thing also presages and contextualizes Daenerys' character development and narrative importance (the ASoIaF narrative itself) as she seeks to become the Queen of Westeros.

Daenerys, thematically, has been likened to Aegon I and Rhaegar by actually thinking persons, and she is pretty much set to "set things right" in her rule, which is why her development as a leader from her experiences, perspective as an abused and enslaved woman, and personal values all matter and connect to her goal to rule.

She will be, we can say, the cumulation, restoration, the "fix", and peak of House Targaryen. At least Watsonianly. And her house's history of assimilation at the cost of higher competency by cooperating with female members instead of against them makes Dany's current development all the more important to create a better future for those in Westeros and even Essos.

#asoiaf asks to me #women in westeros #rhaenyra targaryen #westerosi history #the targaryens #jaehaerys i #jaehaerys i's characterization #fire and blood characters #asoiaf women #westerosi women #rhaenyra i #asoiaf

[pixelshiftexe]

In a modern universe, Cersei Lannister would get sent to one of those fancy private rehabs/psych hospitals (she doesn't want to go but Jaime booked her in after her latest breakdown and convinces her that actually it's super trendy these days for rich white women to go on "mental health retreats") and immediately tries to convince her psych team that she's totally fine and actually doesn't need to be here only to promptly be diagnosed with Bipolar and put on an ungodly amount of Seroquel.

Every single meeting she's forced to attend, she sits in her chair huffing up a storm while everyone else speaks, and when it's her turn goes on a fifteen minute rant alternating between insisting that everything wrong with her isn't actually her fault, insulting everyone else at the meeting because can't BELIEVE people actually fall for this psychobabble therapy nonsense, and sobbing uncontrollably over how her life has turned out.

After she's done she goes back to ignoring everyone.

Would absolutely look down on the people in there for narcotic addictions despite the fact that she's spent roughly the equivalent of the GDP of a small country on cocaine over the years.

Also freely admits to her therapist to having had an incestuous relationship with Jaime during childhood and adolescence but insists it doesn't matter anymore because they "grew out of it" after Jaime went to military school and she realised it would've been social suicide for her modelling career if anyone got photos of them together while she was dating various other celebrity guys, and remains completely oblivious to the ongoing emotional incest and codependency that's running through her entire family.

She emphatically insists that the only problem with Tywin's parenting was that he didn't send Tyrion away at birth and that he got Jaime a spot at Harvard Business School even though he didn't actually WANT to go and SHE did.

If this sounds like I'm bashing her, I promise I'm not. These are simply things I know to be true.

#this is a copy and paste from a series of messages I sent Eloise/valyrianfreehold #but it must be shared with my fellow Cersei Understanders. #my source is that I just got out of one of these hospitals and met at least three women with one or more of the above traits. #they were so deeply delusional i loved them. #game of thrones #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #cersei lannister #jaime lannister #tywin lannister #tyrion lannister