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onesunofagun · 5 months

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I will now yell about Fi and Ghirahim as symbols of their respective creators, please stand by:

So, the biggest slap addition the lore that Skyward Sword gave us was (Her Grace) Hylia and (the Bringer of) Demise. Entities who, regardless of confusing localisation choices, exist as two sides of the same coin and are locked into a mutual karmic cycle.

They reflect each other like a mirror, and also represent an antithesis of each other, seemingly existing as consequence to one other. They were presented as the penultimate deities of the physical and metaphysical realms of their world since the advent of its creation by the departed Golden Goddesses; twinned yet opposite, and each both inevitable and necessary.

Shadow; Light. Chaos; Order. Indulgence; Restraint. Upheaval; Stability. Primordial; Designed. Spite; Grace. Hidden; Seen.

Ghirahim; Fi.

It goes right down to the blades that Demise and Hylia would level at one another. The spirits of each are a representative of the principles and philosophy championed by their creators.

Now, the closer you get to the works and relics of the Gods/Gods Tribe in Zelda, the more you see divine constructs that blur the line of spiritual magic and advanced technology, and are ostensibly both. This was a direction that really bloomed in Skyward Sword, taking a running start on it that games hereafter have followed. The caveat is that only certain special people chosen by Gods or otherwise given permission to use this kind of Magitech can interact with it or produce things like it (either at all, or without punishment).

Even the Sheikah, who have closely served the intentions of the Gods/Spirits of Light (Hylia and her aligned) all throughout history, make the mistake of getting too comfortable in their inspiration and cross the line into imitations. Despite the successful utilisation of, and later recovery of, certain Sheikah Tech such as the Divine Beasts to positive effect, the tragedy of both the Sheikah's Divide and the Calamity's hijacking of Hyrulean defence systems is still played as a cautionary tale of hubris and knowing one's place in the natural order of things.

The Sheikah were effectively making unauthorised knockoffs of Divine Magitech and it bit them on the arse.

Can't have shit in Hyrule.

Pretty much every significantly advanced tribe in Zelda has a stated closeness to 'the Gods'. Either by being adjacent to or descended from deities and spirits collectively known as the Gods (specifically the Gods Tribe in JP), they are still distinctly subordinate to and separated from entities such as Hylia and the three Golden Goddesses.

Confirmed to be included in this special grouping are the Zonai and the Oocca, for instance. Speculatively, the Wind Tribe are an example of people who ascended (with permission or worthiness) from the surface-- they are an arguably Gerudo adjacent tribe who may even be precursors to the Zonai or related to the Twili.

The Picori, at the very least those in their native realm, also certainly count as part of this grouping. Though it could be argued whether those descent Minish living on the surface still do.

The Sheikah, it should be noted, have never gained entry to this Gods club. Despite their proximity in worship and service to Hylia, historically, they've also done some pretty shady things-- like the Shadow Temple and the general murder and espionage stuff -- that may have otherwise excluded them from ascending like the Wind Tribe did. They walk a grey line, and they have a duty in the eyes of the Powers That Be that apparently prefer they stay put.

Not Turtle-y enough for the Turtle Club.

Another example of this Icarus flying too close to the Sun type cautionary tale, and a far more egregious offender in the eyes of the Gods Tribe, are the 'Interlopers' who would eventually become the Twili. They were a tribe of people that, while squabbling with others, tried to take dominion of Hyrule (referred to itself as the Sacred Realm/Holy Land in TP) with powerful magic that more or less gave them a winning advantage. Specifically, the Crystal Stone of Shadow (the Fused Shadow) which greatly amplified their magical power.

Banished by the Spirits of the Light whole cloth into an underworld (lit. A Realm of the Dead) that we also know as the Twilight Realm, they have been shunned from the land they tried to conquer and transformed by shadow so much, they're now allergic to the light (without sufficient mystical power to bolster themselves).

Basically, the intended message is this: any earthly people who have advanced themselves without approval by the Gods Tribe-- especially by using Divine Constructs as inspiration or means-- have therefore disrupted the order of things, and stacked the deck too much in their own favour. Even if the intent was primarily a fixation on preserving Hylia's bloodline, and by extension her sacred land, it is still possible to elevate oneself above your contemporaries (especially the capacities of the Royal Family line in Hyrule) in such a way that you impose too much independent influence upon the the natural world.

No longer following 'the way of the Gods' (the Gods Tribe law) or respecting the order of things (ala Shintoist inspiration), you are labelled a disruption to harmony and peace, and therefore seen as corrupted and pollutive, and generally negative in your impact. You will then be chased off, at the very least, unless you renege-- for fear that you will bring in demonic influences or be used by them. This has canonically happened to both the Gerudo and the Sheikah, now.

But you know who Magic Constructs on par with the Gods Tribe, except it's more eldritch and organic-looking and primordial in form? It's the other club, the one that the disenfranchised Sheikah went and banged on the door of, hoping to be let in if they started wearing cool red and black outfits and changed their name and stopped worshipping Hylia.

Yeah. It's the Demon Tribe-- who are pretty much just the inverse reflection of the Gods Tribe and its set up. Their Magitech equivalents, and what they can do, only serve to further cement this.

Specifically, if you could suggest that the Gods Tribe's main objective is maintaining a status quo of shared prosperity that provides an ordered and peaceful existence through conformity and tradition, the Demon tribe is an ever churning well of opportunity where winner takes all. It is a hierarchy built on brutal meritocracy, honed by constant challenges and hard won continuation-- survival and status fought for and maintained by individualistic influence and innovation.

Many various little bastards exist in the Demon Tribe. Bosses in charge of sub-tribes of monsters are commonly seen, but they have their minor Deities ad Spirits, too. The head honchos are called Demon Kings (plural, because it doesn't describe a single position, but rather just very powerful Demons who have clout). Demise is both a Demon King, namely the most powerful one, and also the 'Chief' of the Demon Tribe; just as, in this case, Hylia could be considered the 'Chief' of the Gods Tribe. So, Demon God-King, really.

While Demise is incapacitated by Hylia's seal, his role as the Chief of the Demon Tribe is actually the position that Ghirahim fills in for as his (literal) right hand man-- the very extension of his arm, as his blade.

Both the Master Sword (Fi) and Ghirahim himself are, perhaps, some of the most advanced forms of this sort of Magitech we've actually ever seen.

Ghirahim goes above and beyond in his role, even going so far as to cultivate his full persona as a Demon in his own right in order to maintain his authority as the effective Regent while the big boy is incapacitated. He disguises his true form and nature, and with a surprising level of autonomy and self-transformation for what he is, sets about attending his duties with great devotion.

He seems to have an incredibly intuitive and flexible mode of operation. His sentience is full of creativity, emotionality, and genuine potential that he has the capacity to explore and shape with great freedom, for the construct that he is.

He is flamboyant and attention grabbing, highly expressive. He entertains great personal indulgence, even going so far as to toy with Link in a manner that borders on vicious training for a while. Though in part due to his undeniable sadism, Ghirahim almost can't help himself but to continue to test and push against the potential as a swordsman that the Hero has, inadvertently cultivating its growth.

This depth of identity and adaption he's capable of was either an intentional part of his design, or specifically not prevented by it-- both of which stand to represent something of Demise and Demonkind. The lengths to which Ghirahim is allowed to wield himself when not in his creator's hand is remarkable and, though he is shown to be unable to override actual commands from his master, it stands in an interesting contrast to Fi.

Where Ghirahim is able to radically redefine his own presentation and function to best suit his Master's needs in a way that mimics the organic, Fi's evolution is far more linear and streamlined, never really deviating from systematic updates. Though the sword itself is subject to physical restorations, Fi's personal appearance is unchanged and reflective of her true shape, indicating that her tempering in the Sacred Flames is either a slow return to previous form or a pre-programmed and permanent upgrade set into motion by Hylia. It is also an evolution that is entirely dependant upon the actions of others, largely lacking the individual agency and flexibility that Ghirahim possesses.

Not to suggest that Fi is any less devoted to her purpose, however.

She is, quite unlike Ghirahim's aspect of individual advancement, wholly geared toward a model of mutual enhancement with a partner. She is built with a singular and clear objective in mind, perfectly designed to suit the needs of the one wielding her as a supplement to their ability, rather than an autonomous servant. She defers entirely to her Master's decisions at all times, though does make informed suggestions, and does not appear to be able to relocate the physical sword on her own. Many of her abilities are things that must be directly requested of her.

Even when she is given to performance, such as her singing or her ballet, these are seemingly dispassionate affairs that are precisely executed, preprogramed displays for Link's benefit. Absolutely nothing, not even particular inflections of emotionality, must risk the distortion of her relayed messages and guidance to Link-- these displays may also be something analogous to morale boosting rewards or a really weird form of reverence to the musically inclined Hylia. Either way, Fi is highly logical and presents herself foremost as an instrument and a tool. She does not indulge in a persona or otherwise engage in anything not directly tied to her assigned mission-- she does not get distracted or indulge personal whims as Ghirahim does. But critically, a large part of her design is geared towards an awareness of her surroundings. Fi has a visible consciousness for the living things around her at all times, contrasting to Ghirahim's seeming negligence of them and open disdain.

Fi's orderly efficiency and lack of cultivated personality to detract from her purpose make the fact of her construction obvious. Unlike Ghirahim, her true nature and her task is almost painfully undisguised. She exists in a simple sincerity, almost austere, seemingly unwilling or unable to seek function beyond her designation without being updated by another. However, her concentrated application seems to achieve concentrated results, strengthening both herself and her wielder in a near impenetrable mutual reinforcement.

It is perhaps of no coincidence that, despite Fi's seeming inflexibility and clinical pragmatism, she also expresses something of a fondness for Link at the end-- in many ways, mirroring her Divine creator. She does this very robotically, by correlating her collected data time spent together and their completed task with what she's observed of human happiness.

Skyward Sword seems to argue that Ghirahim's main flaw is spreading himself too thin, or trying to be so many other things, that he falls short as a sword in the end. It suggests that his sin, like others in the franchise, is getting too big for his boots scabbard and letting his pride become his downfall. His individualism gets presented with a great cost, as he has only enhanced himself in ways that seemingly do not apply when he returns to his primary function as a sword. The emotionality he has, such as the frustration and cockiness and bloodlust he indulges, are also shown to lower his successes-- reducing the sense of his efficiency and precision beside the ever level, measured Fi.

When he returns to Demise's hand, Ghirahim is already weakened and spent. Despite all he's done for his Master's revival, Demise is left to fight with a paling version of the blade that once fatally wounded Hylia-- not unlike a Master Sword in need of restoration to its full power.

There's a legend regarding Gorō Nyūdō Masamune, widely regarded as the greatest swordsmith in Japanese history, and Sengo Muramasa, who is famously known for creating unique and terrifically sharp blades that are considered cursed.

It starts when Muramasa challenges Masamune to see who can make a finer sword. When the work is done, they go down to a river, and place the blades in the water with the cutting edge towards the current.

Muramasa's sword, which he named Ten Thousand Winter Nights, cuts everything that floats its way-- leaves, fish, even the wind that happened across it. It is so sharp that nothing escapes unscathed.

Masamune's sword, named Tender Hands, is placed in the river and cuts the leaves that go by so seamlessly, they reform on the other side. Fish swim up to it and seem to be repelled by its aura, avoiding death. The wind kisses the blade gently with a pleasant whistle.

Muramasa isn't impressed by this. He thinks the blade is useless, barely cutting anything at all, and starts to remark on the lack of skill. Masamune smiles at the criticism, but merely compliments that Muramasa's sword is indeed quite sharp.

A monk who had watched all this from nearby approaches at that point, bows, and interjects with his own observations.

Though he too observes that Muramasa's sword is technically very finely made, he notes that it's a bloodthirsty, wicked blade. It cuts anything in its path indiscriminately, he says, and would just as soon cut a butterfly in half as remove somebody's head.

Masamune's sword, however, was the clear winner in the monk's opinion-- a gentle blade that did not needlessly cut that which was innocent or undeserving, tempered by grace. It is a benevolent sword, and so far finer made.

In popular culture, Muramasa's blades have held onto their violent reputation. There's a superstition that they can compel their wielder to murder. It has even been said that, once drawn, they can't be sheathed again until their thirst for blood is sated-- even if it has to drink from its own wielder.

They also had a weirdly consistent habit of maiming or killing members of the Tokugawa Shogunate, and so became an anti-Tokugawa symbol synonymous with the rebellion. So that's fun.

But Masamune was considered to be a very calm man, who was controlled and reserved and quite spiritual. Muramasa, though, was depicted as an aggressive man, who was a bit wild and kinda unpredictable. As far as the folk stories go, Muramasa is depicted as having been quite envious of Masamune. Unlike Masamune, who approached his craft as the art of achieving clean death, they say Muramasa needed to transfer his unhinged energy into his blades to keep from being overwhelmed by it himself.

Because their natures bled into the swords they created, it was believed that Masamune and Muramasa imbued them with purifying and demonic power, respectively.

Just as with Demise and Hylia and the swords that they created-- as inspired by such a legend-- the spirits inside of them represent their natures, as well.

#legend of zelda #zelda meta #zelda analysis #long post #hylia #demise #fi #ghirahim #skyward sword #sksw #zelda lore #tloz

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ganondoodle · 10 months

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genuine genuine genuine question- wwwhy do you not like the zonai? (zonau? not sure if thats like. the worlds coolest plural or a translation difference) given your content with more monstery designs i would have thought they'd be up your alley!! however. i have also not played skyward sword (as much as id like to) and i know most of peoples upset with their existence and the totk storyline is because of its conflicts with that plot? i'm very excited to see what you do with your rewrite/botw2!! given their slight presence in faron in botw, it would be cool to see you repurpose the zonai in some way that doesn't conflict with the plot you're going for, something that makes more sense with the cryptic kinda bare minimum we had in botw? sorry if you've explained your stance on the zonai before <3

hhhhhhhh i had ranted alot about it but i hope you are prepared- (also "zonai" is sonau in german but im choosing to write it with a z so people recognize it at least, im pretty sure zonau is also the orignal japanese word for them)

i am fine with their design, in fact, i LIKE their character designs, however i dont like everything else about them.

and no its also not bc it affects skyward sword bc it doesnt affect ANYTHING in skyward sword, bc skyward sword is the VERY FIRST zelda game in the timeline and totk is nowhere near it, totk draws several paralels towards skysw bc its meant a sort of soft reset for this new era but its really just thematic overlap and references bc those are cool (i know alot of people are trying to convince the entire fandom that totk somehow is crammed into the old timeline but trust me its never anywhere near confirmed nor does it make any sense, heres the lil graphic i made last month to clarify how i think its meant to be understood .. quite obviously even -

i dont mean to sound .. mean, but some people read too much into little phrases or references to older titles (like first king of hyrule .. doesnt have to mean the literal firstest of the first ones in all of forgotten history ever, just the first of THIS hyrule for example), and while im not against theories i am very annoyed when people try to say its somehow canon when its NOT)

with that out of the way;

i dont like how they are 'integrated' into botws world, they feel unnatural and shoved in everywhere, they have been everywhere and did everythign better and cooler and no part of (this) hyrule was untouched by them their architecture feels not integrated well either and design wise its rather bland, while the sheikah shrines for example while obviously not natural and very 'techy' they still build a harmonizing contrast while the totk shrines are pretty laughably unfitting compared to them the basically complete disappearance of all sheikah tech related stuff bothers me immensely bc why would you just get rid of it istead of developing it further (i know about purahs towers and think they are just like a worse version of the previous ones; and before this argument comes up again, them destryoing it all -somehow- bc they were afraid of it being taken over again is a dumb excuse bc then they should be even more scared of zonau tech- even MORE unknown and advanced tech literally falling from the sky) you could have done SO MUCH with the ancient shiekah tech it drives me nuts

i also think it tipped the delicate balance of the kinda medival setting + high tech that botw had set up compeltely over, the zonau tech just .. is so painfully obviously only the way it is to give you little lego parts to glue together (i know its a focus of the game ... or at least the gamePLAY but it could have been done better, again i think they managed the balance perfectly with shiekah tech, its weird and isnt natural but doesnt endanger the believability of it ... the zonau tech just throws that out the window rly ... how cool would it have been if you could built lil guardian walk thingies djknhfkd )

in general they just feel like a complete replacement for the ancient shiekah and are so SO desperately trying to make the zonau the COOLER and BETTER versions of what the shiekah were (you COULD have connected them in a cool way, like there being ancient shiekah labs build in the old zonau mining facilities bc they used zonau tech as basis for their own tech etc)

like instead of building on the set up and potential botw had prepared, they just scrambled to make a 'better' version of botw, like oh no forget THAT ancient civilization we have an EVEN MORE ancient, and EVEN MORE highly developed peoples there that were also everywhere before you but also were never really hinted at- and then repeat botws structure .__.

having an old and forgotten civilization of whom only some withered ruins remain gave botw a much more real feeling, a world with a history that you will never know (you know, bc that makes it intriguing and is just .. a good choice of worldbuilding imo)- and then totk comes along and reveals everything and also nothing, we know too much of them to be intrigued by their mystery and also not enough to actually care about them (also them beign presented as the good perfectly perfectestest kingdom of light that can do no wrong other than underestimate the eeeevil guy while they also had their hands on every part of the land and made all other races be their face and nameless servants just ... thats weird man!! i know its a game, even if its only aimed at kids my god they arent stupid either!! you really present me with that and expect me to take it at face value what argh)

again i think they COULD have been integrated into it, but the way it was done completely threw me off, im not mad about them EXISTING but about how it was DONE in the game

the way they were done robs not just totk but also botw of mystery and intrigue, for example i much rather had them stay a mystery, only ever talked about in some text and some old and almost completely withered ruins left, you never get so see what happened there in the past, you can only guess, but you have to deal with the fallout anyway and thats just ONE possibility, there are so many and it feels like they chose the most boring one every single time

sometimes knowing less is better than knowing half

(maybe i can make it clearer when .. or if i can get to illustrate what could have worked -in my opinion- better .... sorry for ranting again ;__; )

#ganondoodles answers #ganondoodles talks #zelda #totk #ganondoodles rants #i WANT to like this game so damn much #but cant with the way it was done #and i didnt have big expectations either #sorry if i sound agressive #the way i type just reads to others like that somehow #im desperately yelling in my cage with tears in my eyes thinking about the potential it all had

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phoenixcatch7 · 6 months

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A comprehensive and detailed timeline about the ancient past of totk

Okay I was going to append this to someone else's theory post but it got out of hand size wise and that's a tad rude so I'm making my own.

(Part 1) (long post)

Totk ancient history, let's go!

So! What do we know about the botw timeline, first?

Ancient sheikah! They've existed since the beginning of hyrule, but these lot were scifi. They supposedly took inspiration partly from the zonai before they (the zonai) died out. They built all the tech to fight calamity ganon. (and presumably improve their quality of life, but we don't see much of that)

Calamity ganon. First appearance 10k years ago. Second appearance in botw (technically 100 years ago? Not important, he didn't leave and come back). Zelda (or rhoam or impa) say it gave up its mortal from to be a giant goo pig. Both attacks were foreseen by sheikah seers.

Rito and zora existing together! This is very important! Rito originally evolved from zora in wind waker, so they've never existed together.

Them existing together, along with basically everything else about botw lol, proves we're working with a merged timeline. Gang's all here!

A divine beast (probably) took that chunk out of hebra peak. Lol. Lmao, even. Most likely to be ruta or medoh.

The duelling peaks are split in their artwork (the observatory and sword trial chamber). Rumour (npc gossip) has it a dragon flew through and split them in two.

The sheikah knew about the master sword. Somehow installed... Whatever the sword trials are. Also the master cycle, which, heck yeah, wish totk had that, hand built stuff isn't a fraction as good or cheap.

The sheikah built the shrine of resurrection. Even in botw, it's said it was built over a spring of healing water.

Now, let's briefly cover what we learned in totk.

The zonai! Of course! We learn a lot from the tear flashbacks. They descended from the sky to earth to 'found hyrule' (lmao) with their secret stones that boost powers. Already a dying race at that point. Rauru and mineru are the only ones we ever see. They're guarded and served solely by hylians.

Sonia, a priestess (of at least the triforce if not hylia), blood of hylia. She was one of the people first greeting the zonai, which tells us they descended in that generation.

The rito and zora are already there! The timelines are already merged! We see the ghost of what the sheikah took inspo from with the zonai animal masks.

A gerudo sage! Despite the gerudo still being led by ganondorf... That must have been fun. Likely the ruler of the gerudo after ganon is defeated, which must have been a Trial and a Half in THAT political landscape.

The duelling peaks are... intact. This lends a lot of credence to the dragon theory!

There are no floating islands in zeldas time. This implies either the cloud barrier is intact and zonai still lived up there for a while, or the whole zonai race went to earth and brought their islands with them.

The great plateau walls are already there. Hylian design.

The hero's aspect. A half hylian, half zonai hero. This confirms that the hero can be reborn into bodies that aren't purely hylian (or, well.... We'll get back to that). It also could not be more clear that it's the hero from the calamity tapestry! Even has a pointy face where zelda has flat. Booty shorts/skirt. The red hair is important.

Ganon has been reborn, zelda arrived via time travel, but there's no hero? Rather, the only one to defeat him named link is our totk boy 10k years later.

The zonai temple of time is on the plateau. Where the landmass under it comes from I DO not know.

The zonai temple of time is currently not really very close to the plateau. This implies islands can drift. This isn't relevant but is cool.

We get no explanation for the zonai ruins in the jungle. Which is a crying shame. Rauru never ever goes to the jungle. The best we get is the dragons head quest. Or the labyrinths! Well... I'll get back to that as well.

The depths, the zonai mines, zonaite. Despite being from the clouds, the zonai get their powerful metal, the one named after them, the stuff they make everything out of, from the deepest, darkest depths of hyrule (literally lol). The only other place zonaite can be found is some caves in the sky.

The distinctive swirl of zonai magic above shrines perfectly matches rauru's final spell. The shrines were constructed by/for rauru and Sonia, said to help 'seal the darkness and prevent it encroaching on hyrule'. Underneath each one is an inactive light root, which, when activated, becomes surrounded by the only hylian flora in the depths. Hilariously, you can pick up the actual shrines in pebble form and cart them around.

Unfortunately, one can only install a single read more, so I'm going to make it a new post.

Topics I intend to cover:

How the timelines fused and the state of it currently

Possible origins of the zonai and how long they stuck around

The ancient hero and what it means for the timeline

The relation between the sheikah, the zonai, and the hylian king

The state of hyrule 10k years ago, politically

The original sages being the blood ancestors of every new sage, but using the champion voice actors. Also population statistics

Ganondorf v calamity ganon v phantom ganon v the blights v the depths (there's a lot of ganon)!

What this means for age of calamity...

My best attempt at covering everything from the fusion of the timelines to the events that start breath of the wild, sticking as close to canon and as far from headcanon as possible.

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546five · 10 months

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totk spoilers

the barbarian set is really weird when you think about it

its in age of calamity, breath of the wild, and tears of the kingdom

it was previously theorized to be zonai armour as it came from zonai ruins but heres the thing it looks nothing like actual zonai armour

im not including the armour set you get for completing all the shrines as its supposed to make link look like a zonai

now not all of the above sets were made for hylians the "dragon sets" were most likely made for zonai wear as rauru is seen wearing the charges shirt but thats not really important as we can see that the barbarian set doesnt look similar to any of the above sets its missing green "zonaite" parts

now there is a chance that not all zonai armour follows the same design idea but what confirms its not zonai armour is it item description "A helmet once worn by the warriors of an ancient warlike tribe from the Faron region. Wearing it draws out your inner animal, increasing your strength and battle prowess." "Armor once favored by an ancient warlike tribe from the Faron region. The war paint bolsters your fighting spirit and raises your attack power." "These leg wraps were favored by a warlike tribe from the Faron region long ago. They're adorned with traditional markings that bolster your fighting spirit to raise your attack power." all of these mention that its from a "warlike tribe from the faron region" which first of all the zonai are not warlike nor are they only in faron sure most of their ruins are in faron but they mostly populated central hyrule as we can see that their temple of time is on the great plateau as well as having important ruins all across hyrule especially in the depths.

one thing to note is that it has a new model in totk meaning the devs thought about it but kept the description the same

this right here at least in my opinion fully writes it off of being zonai armour as they had a chance to make it follow the design pattern other zonai armour follows but didnt.

now this leaves the question of who or what did this armour belong to the easy answer is that a new warlike tribe sprung up and primarily focused on trying to use the zonai tech after almost all of the zonai structures were moved up into the sky

#totk spoilers #totk #the legend of zelda #zelda #zelda theory #botw #tears of the kindom spoilers #tears of the kingdom #breath of the wild

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curseofpower · 5 months

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What really baffles me about the Zonai is that, despite their importance to the game, we learn next to nothing about them. Where did they all go? Did they die off? Return to their home planet? Ascend to a higher plane of existence? Why (or how) did Rauru and Mineru stay behind? We know a lot about what their technology was like, but bugger all about what THEY were like.

Well I definitely have my theories, but... yeah. The rapid disappearance makes me think they literally did fuck off using their super high tech. Why? Well. I mean.

The world was poisoned by their mining operations. Gloom? That thing they were all mysterious about but which was actually a blight probably inflicted by the planet itself for being so deeply wounded. They dug deep to get to their precious ore. I mean we see it in the game.

I almost wondered if Ganon intentionally ripped the mines open when he caused the upheaval in hopes of exposing the Zonai for their misdeeds, but well, by then it'd been 10,000 years and it was an act only really he could see the significance of...

All the lights to keep it down had gone out so all the Zonai's dirty laundry was literally just aired right there and No One Alive remembered them to care abt it.

His hate of Rauru seemed personal. I think he hated all Zonai. The Gerudo, who had to rely on barely any water sources, were essentially poisoned by their mining operations. Something they wouldn't have known unless they'd gone down and saw it themselves, which it is confirmed did happen. Ancient archeological site and all. Also gloom resistant clothing (which who knows how long they had need for that considering...)

Also it's quite clear Ganondorf himself got poisoned by it. Many things could be said about that and how it played a role in how powerful he became as basically an avatar of a planet Very Pissed Off at being violated and gutted by these alien outsiders.

#totk #Man I hate the story but I can't seem to stop getting Into it when I talk about it with y'all.#As for goatman he either stayed because he had a savior complex so huge he thought he could save the planet #or he was just an asshole who liked lording over 'lesser beings'.#maybe a bit of both? God/savior complex?#personal hc

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aikoiya · 10 months

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LoZ - The Wild Series is in the Fallen Hero Timeline

I just realized something. The time of legends that the Zonai lived in Hyrule for, had to have taken place after not only Skyward Sword, but also Twilight Princess/Spirit Tracks/Adventure of Link.

One major reason being that the Great Plateau was in the same place in TotK's past as it was in BotW & TotK's Present.

Like, you can literally see it in TotK's 6th Tear Memory. And you know that it's in the same exact place because Ganondorf is standing on the East Gerudo Mesa & facing north northwest. Directly in the direction of the Great Plateau in the present.

However, we can assume that it wasn't always there. Having likely instead been in the Woodland area, right where the Great Hyrule Forest is now, as the bog has the exact same shape as the Great Plateau. The Great Plateau being the sight of not only OoT's Castle Town, but its Hyrule Castle. However, we can't be sure whether the switch was a result of pure magic or megi-tech.

Either way, if this is the case, then OoT's map would've much more readily fit within the Wild Series' map.

The fact that it remains in the same place as the present even 10,000 years before, suggests that whatever switched the forest & Plateau 100% happened before Rauru refounded Hyrule.

In fact, another thing we see in the 6th Tear Memory is the second reason, which is the fact that all the Gerudo except for Ganondorf all have pointed ears while the ones from OoT don't. Creating a Champion even addresses this & says that the ancient Gerudo had rounded ears.

Third reason being the presence of both the Zora & Rito as major parts of the story.

It has to be after Skyward Sword, period, due to the absence of the Zora. Now whether you subscribe to the theory that the Parella or the Tadtones are the ancient ancestors of the Zora is irrelevant. The point is, the Zora themselves are not present.

And the Zonai could only have appeared after Four Swords Adventure/Spirit Tracks/Adventure of Link due to the Rito being present during Rauru's reign. (Possibly even Hyrule Warriors if you wanna consider it canon adjacent. It'd certainly work as a way to fuse the 3 timelines back together. And it's possible that New Hyrule is still out there & inhabited by Spirit Tracks' Link & Zelda's ancestors.)

Therefore, this lends credence to the theory that Rauru wasn't actually the first king of Hyrule, so much as the first king of Hyrule since the last of many, many, many massive near apocalypses in Hyrule's long fucking history.

Nintendo outright saying that the game happens so far into the future that all the other games are considered myth & legend confirms this. As a result, it's likely that Rauru named his kingdom after the Hyrule of legend & most likely truly believes that he was the first king of Hyrule because of this.

I think that Hyrule was likely destroyed once more after the Adventure of Link. To such a degree, in fact, that not only was the monarchy destroyed & the Hyruleans were basically back to square one as a race again, but the Gorons retreated underground to Gorondia. After which some of the Zora evolved into Rito for one reason or another, the Zonai appeared, & Hyrule was refounded.

Also, the past events of TotK happened around 10,000 years ago with the first Calamity depicted on Impa's screen (I hc as having been) around 100 years later. That Zelda having been the daughter of Rauru & Sonia (we don't actually know how long Zonai can live) & the red-headed Zonai known as the Ancient Hero being a Link.

Personally, I believe that he was actually the next Gerudo male to be born, as Urbosa only said that there have been no male leaders of the Gerudo since Ganonforf, which means that those males might've simply not been made leaders of the Gerudo.

I'm saying that these Voe ARE being born, but due to the 2-4 previous Ganondorfs, there is a systemic misandrony within Gerudo culture that leads to mothers either not returning to the desert upon birthing voe in the best case, & either abandoning the voe or outright killing them at worst.

TotK's Ganondorf also has to be a different one as OoT's remastered Ganondorf after 7 years, TP's Ganondorf, & WW's Ganondorf all had pointed ears, while TotK Ganondorf has rounded ones. Meaning he most likely doesn't have the Triforce of Power, which is likely what initially made the 1st Ganondorf's ears become pointed, which you can see after OoT Link 7 year nap.

Same with HW Ganondorf, who also possessed the Triforce of Power. Which he's been able to keep the Triforce over multiple lifetimes & through resurrections.

Anyway, my thoughts are that the Ancient Hero lived in a small Hylian village with his father at least & thus grew up Hylian. Then, when he was discovered to be the Legendary Hero, at some point he got his hands on a Majora's Mask-style Zonai Mask that turned him into a Zonai.

If not that, then he was possibly half-Gerudo, half-Zonai.

Not to mention, the Sheikah technology of the time having been the Sheikah's adaptation & expansion of the Zonai tech, but with a different power source & material.

It's possible that due to not being made with Zonaite, it allowed these machines to be much more long-lasting than the Zonai's tech.

LoZ Wild Masterlist

#loz #legend of zelda #adventure of link #twilight princess #spirit tracks #tp #st #oot #ocarina of time #fallen hero timeline #zora #rito #botw #breath of the wild #totk #tears of the kingdom

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dav1thy · 11 months

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several small totk headcanons:

-time between botw and totk is 6 years, like the irl time it took to release the games

-like botw, purah aged not through normal means but thru experiments

EDIT: It has been confirmed in one of Purah's diaries that this is exactly what happens, I am a wizard.

-In botw, link actually charged straight into the divine beasts/calamity ganon to save zelda. This means he didn't do any side missions (except tarrey town) in botw. This is why nobody other than tarrey town and the champions descendants actually acknowledge link in totk.

All the npcs probably knew him as "that strong knight guy who follows the princess around”. This doesn’t stop Link from becoming a big topic amongst the knights, but many side characters probably only know him by name if even that. (Tarrey town is the exception bc that was the biggest fan fav quest of botw and nintendo probably knew that and capitalized on it)

EDIT: Ive read somewhere that Hudson does not recognize you if you don't have a botw save, so perhaps this adds more credence to the idea that link stuck to the main quest stuff in botw? I like to think that he eventually comes back to do the sidequests WITH zelda in the 6 year time span between botw and totk, but zelda consistently made a better impression to the npcs than link does, so that's why most people are just oblivious to who link is.

That and the fact that link has Tony Hawk syndrome(tm)

a big totk hc:

-old sheikah tech dismantled both bc its served its purpose of helping the hero face calamity, but also prob bc the people of hyrule had more bad than good experiences with them and thought it best to get rid of them/repurpose them entirely to something benign (Like the towers)

another big botw/totk hc:

-sheikah built their tech based on the principals of the zonai, so the 120 shrines that were made to help the hero in botw were then turned into the lightroot/shrines in totk through zonai magic (there are 120 shrines on the surface in totk too, similar to botw)

Anyways, I’ve been having a blast with totk!! Conquered all the dungeons, gathered all the light roots, and finished the main story quest just yesterday! I’m currently cleaning up the rest of the remaining sidequests and doing a full explore of the new map :)

Btw. dont even get me started on timeline stuff. Mainly bc I won't get into it. I leave that to the zelda lore wizards to piece together, but I know that the "Imprisoning war" is a BIG info drop. Big lttp fan myself :)

#totk #botw #tears of the kingdom #breath of the wild #headcanons #davithy thoughts

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faroreswinds · 1 year

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More Totk thoughts below

Found two other memories so far. Memory number 9 first, then memory number 5.

Memory number 9 is when Sonia is murdered by Ganondorf. Honestly, these two naive young women thought they could attempt to handle something alone? Wtf were they thinking? Zelda also somehow now has some control over her time powers.

Learning that Puppet Ganon is disguised as Zelda really ruins the rest of the game. The present time tries to “trick” the player into thinking Zelda might have gone evil. Of course, unless you are like 5, no would buy this BS. But if you get this memory before doing the “main” story, you are really gimping yourself out of a cohesive narrative.

Number 5 is Rauru’s sister, Minaru, info-dumping about how Secret Stones amplify power, how she can separate her own body from her spirit, and that people can become dragons if you swallow the secret stones.

Again, this is pretty easy to figure out because the “Light” dragon has golden hair and the Master Sword. But even if you didn’t catch that, this basically tells you that Zelda became a dragon. They are really bad at telling stories.

I went and did the Goron temple. Thematically, it was actually super cool. The build up isn’t as special as the Rito one, but first you fight Yunobo, who is possessed. This is super easy but still kinda fun storywise. Then, surprise! Another boss fight! Very bold to put part of the dungeon boss BEFORE the dungeon but it worked. Another easy boss. Like the Rito boss, this one is more spectacle more than anything.

And I gotta say, the Gorons that are possessed by the gloom rocks were really unsettling. When I approached Goron City, two possessed Gorons just suddenly got up and approached me. I actually kinda freaked for a moment. That was more unsettling than the entire Depths ever was.

Thankfully they weren’t aggressive, but they had text boxes over their heads that said “Hey, come here”. And every ounce of my body said “No thanks, I chose life”.

Another cool, thematic dungeon, and a huge step up from the Rito Dungeon. It actually made me think about the layout like dungeons of old, and had a cool mine cart system. I also liked how it is in the ruins of an ancient Goron City.

One thing I also enjoy about these dungeons is that they exist organically in the world, unlike BotW, which were separate maps that required a loading screen and were mechanical monstrosities. It’s kinda a shame you can’t just do them when you find them, like the OG LoZ, but nonetheless these are closer to what I want from future Zelda games.

That all said, the dungeon was still subpar. Too easy to skip the labyrinth of mine cart rails. Just climb and Ascend everywhere. You are given just given the map right away, so you are never lost for a moment. Lame.

The boss was a Gohma variant, and also stupid easy. To be honest, the best boss in the game so far is an overworld boss called Flux Construct III. I can gush about that boss for hours, but I won’t in this post. These story bosses are for literal babies.

Also, Yunobo is just as annoying as Tulin. Please, I beg of you, shut up and let me fight. I also hate how you need to be near the Sages to activate their powers. And the A button is shared with other uses so sometimes when you go to pick something up you accidently just activate a Sage. Terrible button design.

And for some reason, the Sage tells you the exact same story of the Imprisoning War. Almost word for word, with the same cutscene. Wtf? Why repeat what we already know? Is there no dynamic story telling?

I’m also annoyed that these past sages have no face or name. They are literal nobodies.

I did find Vah Rudania’s helmet armor piece, and if you put it on the Yunobo spirit will also the Sage helmet too. It’s a cool touch that I appreciate.

It also kinda confirms my theory that the Sheikah tech was inspired by the Zonai tech.

Again, Link has just no reaction to anything around him. Worse 3D Link of all time.

So... oops, I accidently found the start of the Sage of Spirit’s temple by diving into the storm cloud over Faron. I didn’t know that it would trigger a story thing. Urg... I might have ruined the flow of the story even more.

“Link.... Zelda’s chosen protector.... Link.... Zelda’s chosen protector.... Link.... Zelda’s” Holy crap, please stop talking, I am BEGGING you.

I’m going to not do this temple right away. I’ll save it for later.

#totk-spoilers

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powdermelonkeg · 3 years

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My BO2W Wishlist

There's a lot of hopes that I have for the new BO2W game, and a lot of things I'm excited for. Some are a lot more ambitious than others, so I've taken the time to put together a list, half so I can get my thoughts out on paper, and half so that when some of them DO happen, I can run circles in my room screaming with happiness.

So without further ado, let's get right into it.

Pettable dogs. This is by far the LEAST ambitious of all of them, since Nintendo's basically confirmed it themselves. But it would still be nice to have Link interact with animals more, and give him a bit more personality.

Cooking mechanics expanded. I am a SUCKER for cooking mechanics in video games, not for their complexity, but because it feels like I'm actually making something cool in game. It's one of the biggest draws for me for Genshin Impact, where you can make all kinds of dishes with specific ingredients and buffs. My hope is that, in BO2W, we get new ingredients, new recipes, and maybe even learn some ancient Zonai or Skyloftian foods from old texts or new characters.

Worldbuilding. I'm an author. Worldbuilding is my JAM. Anything new to the game that shows sign of culture--alphabets, food, architecture, clothing, historical events--is going to make my gay little heart happy.

A new house. In the original BOTW, you have the option to buy and fix up a house. It's a small place, but it's pretty, so I like it on a surface level. But the stable at the side of it is purely decorative, the house doesn't have any storage functionality besides weapons display, and the two construction guys camp out in my front lawn. I want a bigger house. I want it to be able to do things, like store cooking ingredients or let me hang pictures of myself or take a bath, and I want it to be AWAY from people. Ideally, in the sky isles

Loftwings. This is one of those ones that's more far out there, and I'd be very surprised if it came true. But Loftwings are BEAUTIFUL creatures, and given that we get sky isles, I'd love the option to be able to fly on one whenever I like, even as a later-game mount. And the idea of being able to sneak up on wild Loftwings like you do horses in BOTW, maybe with a little minigame for hanging on while they try to throw you off in the air, gives my the happy chills.

Playable Zelda. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, because it's about half of the fandom's wildest hopes. I would LOVE to be able to play as Zelda for different segments of the game. Maybe she has a subterranian adventure while Link's up in the sky, and the two of them have to activate different parts of Zonai tech to advance the plot. And maybe when she cooks, she gets different buffs than Link does, because she's more of an alchemist than a chef. Do I think it’ll happen? At this point, no. But I can hope.

Ancestry lore. The Zon-eye symbol reminds me of the Sheikah and Yiga, and the architecture reminds me of the Twili, Lanayru Robots, and the Tower of the Gods. I want to know if the Zonai are related to any of the above things--were they the ancestors of the conflicting clans? Are they gone because they were banished for dark magic? Were they around before Skyward Sword? Please link them to established lore, Nintendo, I would die!

Three more levels of Hyrule to explore. I don’t mean dungeons, though I do want those and will get to that. I mean in the sense of exploration; we’ve already got the sky, but I want to be able to explore underwater and underground, too. Tunnels with ruins of old dungeons, underground mushrooms to forage, the Lakebed Temple, things far out in the ocean...I also want the sky isles to be EXPANSIVE. Give me more islands than just the Skyloft cluster.

Dungeons and items. Another popular one by the fanbase, but I want to give my reasoning. I LOVE puzzles. They’re the reason I hold the Zelda franchise so dearly; it feels really cool to manipulate the area around me cleverly enough to discover secrets or progress. We sort of had that with the Shrines; if EVERY Shrine had given you a rune, I wouldn’t be so upset (even though 120 runes is ridiculous, but I was expecting less shrines back when it got announced), but in the game, you get four cool abilities, and then everything feels...same-y. The themes of the shrines didn’t change; we never got a shrine that was overgrown by invading plants, or had lava seeping through cracked walls. It was always “the monk is over here, do mini-puzzle to win.” I want DIFFERENT puzzles. I want THEMED dungeons. I want BIG motivators. Maz Koshia’s shrine was PERFECT. Give me more of that.

Timeshift stones. These were my absolute favorite mechanic in Skyward Sword, and I would pay literal money to have them implemented again. When I was playing Skyward Sword for the first time, they were INCREDIBLE, and I thought we were going to get one as a key item. BRING THAT BACK.

If anyone else has wishes for the game, feel free to shoot me an ask! I’d love to hear about them!

#zelda #loz #botw #bo2w #botw2 #wishlist #theory #breath of the wild #breath of the wild 2 #nintendo

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nolongerapileofashprobably · 3 years

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Okay SO trailer dropped here are first thoughts

-Like we’ve theorized before, it looks like Link’s hand gets turned into ancient tech where we can use the old runes during this gameplay poor bby can’t get any rest

-GADGET ARM ATTACHMENTS TO FIGHT (dungeon) BOSSES ???

-can’t climb??? Just casually shoot yourself up through the ground and act like you’re Mirio from BNHA

-permeation y’all permeation

-paragliding is still a thing thank the good lord almighty but I wonder if we’ll be able to paraglide back down to the mainland?? Or if we’ll have specific points of entry and fall to our deaths like we did when we boarded the Divine Beasts and fell if it’s not the right area??

-speaking of falling and dying… loftwings? Can we please get loftwings again?

-I just want my loft wing back 🥺

-I REALLY want my loft wing Nintendo GIVE THEM BACK

-YES it is in the SKY and we HAVE ISLANDS TO EXPLORE

-skyward sword vibes but you can actually see the ground

-no thoughts just admire how amazing the ground looks I mean cmon Seres Scablands is honestly one of my LEAST favorite places in BOTW but it looks fabulous from up above :)

-Funny how Zelly falls deeper into the earth and we don’t see anymore of it besides Ganon’s corpse also dramatically falling, cuz the man can’t stand sharing the spotlight but whatevs

-now I’m not saying we’ll get to play as Zelly, it’s totally up in the air and at this point I dunno 🤷🏻‍♀️ HOWEVER not seeing Zelly again, the two being separated, the two being in two drastically different places… something seems sus

-(heaven and hell, really Nintendo? Because you can’t give my over analyzing fan girl mind a break huh? Do you KNOW how long I’m going to theorize about THAT SYMBOLISM???)

-Master Sword is conveniently gone. For both Ancient Link and Ground Link. What a shocker

To summarize this first part— a few new tricks with the runes, gADGET ATTACHMENTS LKKE THE CONCEPT ART, becoming Mirio 101, no Zelly gameplay that we have seen (keeping hope tho), and no Master Sword!

And now the VISUALS

The SKY THE SKY THE SKY

We have ISLANDS PEOPLE

But the real question is where these islands came from. It SUCKS because from the perspective we are given (see photo above) we’d be looking southwest from above Ludfo’s Bog. We see the edge of Seres Scablands and can see Illumeni Plateau&Washa’s Bluff in the distance. Both are elevated pieces of land and they are boxed in my Tamio River and Tabagar Canyon

Please ignore quality I get it but I couldn’t get the screenshots to upload from my switch leave me BE

So we don’t see the ground itself in the trailer because it’s at such a low level :/ I don’t think the islands in the sky are from the main land at all which begs the question of HIW THE HELL ARE THERE ISLANDS

— the answer is Zonai and Zonai don’t play by the rules

-side note, I’ve just noticed the lamp thing on the island Link lands on in the first picture. Specific points of entry? Confirmed.

- continuing the analysis, let’s just note the stark differences between Sky Link and Ground Link.

—Ground Link has his ponytail, he is wearing the champion/Hylian tunic (blessed be)

— Ancient Link has markings on the right side of his torso/shoulder, Ground Link … doesn’t? Unconfirmed need more data

—both do have ancient arm tho so… same Link?

-is it like a clash between ages??? And Link must travel both the sky and land to bring peace back to Hyrule and stop the spread of malice? But he also changes w the terrain?

— I have so many questions literally just on the nature of the islands and Link’s changed appearance between the two like I want SS lore and connections people I want to KNOW

-Hyrule Castle being lifted by straight malice and being set in the sky with the sunset behind it was so visually appealing that I’ve rewatched it at least seventeen times in the hour ish I’ve been analyzing the video

-Oh let me just say that there are 0 islands when Hyrule Castle is first lifted which tells us that the islands come from whatever Link does after

- The Talus w a Bokoblin encampment on its head. Nuff said.

Additional notes—

Ancient Link’s hair 🥺🥺 isn’t in his ponytail and I just want to thank Hylia and Nintendo for this decision. I love em both

Zelly and Link get separated… how did we know

The Sky and Ground have Skyward Sword vibes but the cave/underground has majors mask vibes. Ganon and Zelly give off Twilight Princess vibes.

The piece of Hyrule Castle that falls off as it starts to lift into the sky is the same part I paraglide to during speed runs and I’m honestly a little hurt by that fact

This gameplay trailer really gives us Skyward Sword vibes and I’m HERE FOR IT!! Y’all should know I absolutely adore Skyward Sword and seeing all the little parallels and things in Botw 2 makes me SO HAPPY and I just want to put skyward sword back into my Wii and play again (but alas imma wait for the switch version). I want to see connections!! I want to see if the Zonai were perhaps a race thAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE GROUND oh my Hylia

I’m just. So. Excited. Thank you Nintendo for reinvigorating my soul. Just. Thank you.

#zelink #botw #loz botw #link botw #zelda botw #zelink botw #the legend of zelda breath of the wild #the legend of zelda #botw 2 #breath of the wild sequel

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