#dany anti nonsense

[fromtheseventhhell]

Another reason that Stansas hate the idea of Arya and Dany being friends (outside of them wanting to demonize Dany) is that they've convinced themselves that Dany and Sansa are the only main female characters, so if a Stark sister is going to have a significant relationship with Dany it has to be Sansa. Arya being constantly downplayed and treated like an accessory to Sansa has generally led to the consensus that her relationship with Dany will be defined by whatever Sansa's relationship (positive or negative) with her is. That's why Arya is always being left out of the "we were robbed of [x] female character friendship" conversations and why theories about Dany/Arya getting along are treated as Sansa hate; Arya, as a character, is seen as secondary to Sansa by a lot of people

#arya stark #anti sansa stans #Don't get me wrong I'm happy whenever people discuss Sansa/Dany parallels instead of pitting them against each other #but the difference in how their potential relationship gets discussed vs. Dany and Arya's is very obvious #and the root of it is that people don't want to perceive Arya as being her own important character outside of her relationship with Sansa #(but also that some people simple don't view Arya as an actual female character because they're misogynistic) #even though Dany/Arya have many parallels shared experiences + values and tons of foreshadowing #Show!Arya was the exact opposite of Book!Arya to justify her disliking Dany but somehow that never gets acknowledged #and people complain about Sansa and Dany not getting along in the show but Arya is ALWAYS being left out of the conversation 🥴 #just made a post about this with receipts so they can't even pretend this is something I made up 😭 #cause they sure do love to gaslight us about the shit they try to pull like we can't see them #this is why I need TWOW to come out so we can get Arya's Braavos arc and finally be free of the show's terrible writing #fandom nonsense

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

Daenerys is 14

And she does stay in Slavers Bay and try to rebuild the economy. Source: A Dance With Dragons.

She spends much of the book trying to negotiate new trade deals with the Lhazarene and the Qartheen, trying to plant new olive groves and bean fields, trying to reform the guilds membership so former slaves can earn proper wages as skilled craftsmen. She tries to assimilate with Meereenese culture to ease a peaceful transition of power, she consults with their priestess, she adopts their religious rites and their uncomfortable traditional dress, she agrees under pressure to marry a Meereenese noble (she doesn't force anyone into marriage at dragonpoint like in the show). And she goes out personally to feed and care for the sick and starving refugees at her door, she tries to set up quarantine zones to slow the spread of infection.

And yeah she falls short. But the odds are stacked against her. She's 14, for starters. And before she arrived the slavers burnt all the olive groves and salted the soil so she couldn't use them, and as she calculates it will take 30 years before the land will be truly productive again. She also has the Meereenese slaving class working very hard to sabotage her by funding domestic terrorism within the city. And she has to deal with a refugee crisis, a famine, a plague, and an alliance of pro-Slavery states forming a blockade around Meereen and threatening to siege the city.

True the refugee crisis is arguably due to her leaving Astapor. She set up a new government, but she should have stayed longer to consolidate it. But she is only 14, and her main adviser/parental figure is too busy being a pro-slavery pedophile.

And the fall of Astapor isn't completely on her shoulders. She left adults in charge, people with qualifications and who knew the land and people better than she did. They had political agency and responsibility. As did Cleon. He could have chosen not to overthrow the Council and name himself King. He could have chosen to heed Daenerys when she told him "don't start a war with the Yunkai". And the Yunkai could have chosen not to slaughter Astapor and chase the refugees to Meereen. They could have simply removed Cleon and then recognised Daenerys had no part in his actions. The Yunkai could have chosen not to then declare war on Meereen.

The institution of slavery is complicated to overthrow and complicated to replace and even complicated in the ways it reasserts itself. Daenerys isn't the only actor here who determines the fate of Slavers Bay (though if she unleashes her dragons she can certainly become the most decisive actor again). The entire point of ADWD is that it's much more complicated than that - its GRRM's answer to "what was Aragorn's tax policy?". She is a 14 year old child who does her best against impossible odds, and who explicitly puts any dreams of Westeros on hold indefinitely. Time and time again she is offered the chance and means to sail for Westeros, and she turns it down each time because she knows she can't leave the people of Meereen behind to die.

And hopefully the lesson she learns by the end of ADWD is that she has to stop being conciliatory towards the slaving class. She spares the lives of hostages, she opens the fighting pits for them, she gives up her body in marriage, and still they try to poison her to install Hizdhar as King. Mercy isn't a weakness, but the people who have a vested interest in slavery aren't going to stop just because you ask them nicely (like that garbage show GOT seems to think). She's got to use her dragons.

No, critiquing her failures isn't the same as defending slavery. But claiming that she never tried, and ignoring the odds stacked against her, is false. As for blaming her for Slavers Bay falling into chaos and suffering... First off, again, she isn't the only responsible actor with agency - I maintain that the fall of Astapor was pretty much out of her hands. And second, it ignores the massive scale of human suffering that already gripped slavers bay. The daily violence inflicted on slaves - the families torn apart, the lives destroyed, the children mutilated, the thousands of dead babies killed to initiate the Unsullied, the tortures and crucifixions and whippings and executions and rapes.

Ignoring that isn't that far off from defending slavery. Claiming that the violence that overthrew slavery is worse than the violence that is slavery isn't that far off from defending slavery. Should no one ever dare strike off a slaves chains just because they can't account for the violence that could come after? Is the crucifixion of child-murdering Slavers worse than the crucifixion of innocent children?

Or to bring up another literary scenario with more moral equivalency and ambiguity - was the Tenth plague upon the firstborns of Egypt worse than the mass culling of infant slaves? Who do you blame for the Ten Plagues of Egypt? Should Moses have left well enough alone?

#fandom nonsense #daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #breaker of chains #daenerys defense squad #meereen #daenerys meta #dany meta #dany #dany defence squad #pro daenerys #pro daenerys targaryen #anti got

[gendrie]

tinfoil hat time: the faceless men are slowly poisoning the sealord bc or their agenda against the “dragonlords”. 

"It wasn't stealing. I took one of his, but I left him one of ours." The kindly man understood. "And with that coin and the others in his purse, he paid a certain man. Soon after that man's heart gave out. Is that the way of it? Very sad." The priest picked up the coin and tossed it into the pool. (Arya, ADWD) 

first of all; the faceless men are known for making their assassinations look like accidents (ie: animal attacks, a fall, ect) or from natural causes. its part of the reason their services are expensive. arya herself utilized one of their poisons in adwd to make it look like the insurance man died of cardiac arrest. arya spends a lot of time learning about poison in general and the FM are one of the few groups that know how to create the strangler, ect. this is very much their m.o.

"The Sealord is still sick." "This is no new thing. The Sealord was sick yesterday, and he will still be sick upon the morrow." (Arya, ADWD) 

the kindly man seems a little too confident that the sealord will still be sick in the future. why rule out the chance he could recover? the FM teach arya to not speculate without reason so it feels like he could have some insight into the sealord’s sickness to make this claim. 

Once chosen, Sealords serve for life. Inevitably, there are always those who wish to cut that life short to effect some change in policy. (TWOIAF) 

and we know that sometimes sealords are killed to influence policy within braavos. but what are the faceless men looking to control?

conspiracy theories aside all the info we currently have indicates dany was living in braavos during her earliest years. she might or might not have stayed with the sealord, but there is a document that says he was aware of existence. 

"It is a secret pact," Dany said, "made in Braavos when I was just a little girl. Ser Willem Darry signed for us, the man who spirited my brother and myself away from Dragonstone before the Usurper's men could take us. Prince Oberyn Martell signed for Dorne, with the Sealord of Braavos as witness." (Dany, ADWD)

unless this pact is a lie (possible? but currently theres nothing to suggest that it is) then the sealord was involved with a potential alliance between the martells and targaryens. this means that the sealord is probably somewhat sympathetic, at least, to the targs. were dany and viserys turned out bc of braavos’ past with the dragonlords of valryia? we know its a very sore subject among some braavosi.

But these men and their ships are well-known to us. No, these other sails … from farther east, perhaps … one hears queer talk of dragons." "Would that we had one here. A dragon might warm things up a bit." "My lord jests. You will forgive me if I do not laugh. We Braavosi are descended from those who fled Valyria and the wroth of its dragonlords. We do not jape of dragons." (Jon, ADWD)

jon gets shit for merely joking about dragons in theory to the iron bank’s representative tycho nestoris. the iron bank’s interests seem to frequently align with the faceless men and vice versa.

“We have flowered in Braavos amongst these northern fogs, but we first took root in Valyria, amongst the wretched slaves who toiled in the deep mines beneath the Fourteen Flames that lit the Freehold's nights of old.”

Arya drew back from him. "He killed the slave?" That did not sound right. "He should have killed the masters!" "He would bring the gift to them as well . . . but that is a tale for another day, one best shared with no one." (Arya, AFFC)

braavos was founded by escaped slaves and the faceless men originated in the mines of valyria. the kindly man even implies they were responsible for the doom that destroyed valyria; an entire civilization. they’re willing to go to extreme lengths. which is probably why they also have an operative (the assassin formerly known as jaqen h’ghar) in the citadel. 

"Learn three new things before you come back to us," the kindly man had commanded Cat, when he sent her forth into the city. She always did. Sometimes it was no more than three new words of the Braavosi tongue. Sometimes she brought back sailor's tales, of strange and wondrous happenings from the wide wet world beyond the isles of Braavos, wars and rains of toads and dragons hatching. (Arya, AFFC)

the faceless men know the rumors of dragon’s hatching from arya’s reports if nothing else, but i am sure they have even better intel and known these strange tales are very true. dragons have returned to the world. if the faceless men believe the sealord could potentially align braavos with this dragon queen (again) they would likely want to put an end to it far in advance.

there are also 4 references in 4 books to the sealord’s sense of humor. it seems like he is an easy going guy. maybe not the sort to stand firm against the powers that will soon be making their way west. 

so the faceless men poison the sealord to put someone sterner and more suited to their agenda in charge of braavos. 

This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt. (Arya, TWOW)

bonus point: in mercy arya notes that her assassination of raff the sweetling (+ framing him for mercy’s murder) will cause problems for the sealord - not just the westerosi envoy. assuming arya was acting on orders (i think she was) then we known the faceless men are deliberately acting against the sealord. and thats something arya will only become more involved with in twow. 

#asoiaf nonsense #is it so far from madness to wisdom???? #tbh i dont actually think this is THAT insane of a theory #the FM poisoning the sealord tracks #its their motive that isnt clear #but this feels like a more practical way to explore the FM's anti targ antics #then smth like arya being sent to kill dany #idk im trying to connect all the sealord dots #bc he's clearly going to be important somehow #and this is what ive got lol #sn: i realized i was conflating the sealord serving for life with the first sword #oops #which means!!!! ferrego is likely the same sealord syrio served #and all 4 laughing refs are about ferrego after all #oh arya is def meeting him

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

What's with this obsession of wanting the series to end with Aegon III and Jaehaera getting married? "It's the most neutral ending" Don't tell me that nonsense, nobody wants a neutral ending, they think jaehaera is a more important ending than aegon iii reuniting with his brother, the only green that I can see having relevance in the end is Alicent, she being depressed and paranoid and the only one left of the greens, always thinking about how all that left her with nothing until she died

TG stans are fundamentally contradictory given how almost all of them are Targaryen antis. They condemn and hate all Targaryens (especially Dany), yet stan the worst group of Targaryens and want their line to continue to their most hated Targaryen in ASOIAF (again, Dany).

They go on and on about how Rhaegar and Dany are evil and deserved to die, but are rooting for their favs to be their ancestors. So basically they want their favs' bloodline to continue but also be wiped out. The only time they want the line to continue is if they're jonsa shippers who want R+L=J.

Because TG stans want to win the war against Rhaenyra so badly, they behave as nonsensical hypocrites (even more than they already do). Jaehaera surviving and marrying Aegon III is the only way the greens could still "win". The only reason it's seen as a neutral outcome is because of people painting the Blacks and Greens as equally wrong. If Rhaenyra and Aegon are both in the wrong and dead, their child joining the houses seems like a good idea. Except there's a clear right side. GRRM killing off all Alicent's bloodline is karmic retribution for her actions and those of the rest of the Greens.

It's a tragedy that Jaehaera died, but it's a tragedy of her family's own making. If Alicent hadn't plotted to undermine Rhaenyra since Aegon's birth, her family would still be alive and well. If Aegon had bent the knee when Rhaenyra offered him mercy, he, his siblings, and his children would be safe and sound. If Aemond hadn't killed Luke, Rhaenyra and her faction would have been more merciful. GRRM has set a precedent of wiping out the bloodlines of traitors and usurpers, the Greens are no different. Anyone who rejects this fact is missing the point of the Dance.

#anti team green #team black #house of the dragon #asoiaf #rhaenyra targaryen #aegon iii targaryen #jaehaera targaryen #anti alicent hightower #anti aegon ii targaryen

[jackoshadows]

I love how this post is tagged as anti-Jonerys and anti-Jonrya - Jon’s canonical connections in the books. As in they think there is no way that Jon can get a loving family and domestic life with Arya and Dany 😂😂😂

Even more ridiculous that these fans grasp hold of that one Jon Snow paragraph where he is considering Stannis’ offer and ponders on starting a family in Winterfell - with Val!! Who he thinks is hot because she shanked a guy in the throat with a knife - ‘ Lonely and lovely and lethal, Jon Snow reflected, and I might have had her.’ And he thinks he might have started a family with Ygritte if she had lived. And yet Dany and Arya are somehow exempt from domestic bliss when they too want family and home - same as every other main character in the books!!

“All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.”

Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile.

The sexism just jumps out of the page in these kinds of posts and the sad thing is the way this fandom embraces farcical misogynistic nonsense like this.

#anti Jonsa #asoiaf fandom wank

[daerklina]

it amuses me how targ antis try to degrade daenerys.

god forbid a childbride who wants to put an end to slavery and oppression doesn’t know how to ruin the system of this regime that was upheld in essos for THOUSANDS of years.

the funniest thing is when these ppl tell something like “daenerys (13 years book - 16 years show) is a rapist” or “she’s a murderer” or “she murdered an innocent woman to get her dragon eggs🥺🥺”, like this is pure nonsense

FIRST OF ALL that woman tricked daenerys which caused her losing her baby, what goes after and who she is doesn’t even matter because she did a terrible thing and EVERY person who got 🩸&🧀ed by Daenerys deserved it 🤭🤭

must be sad reading a book that setting up the plot for dragons & targaryens being reborn, the stark children being obsessed with different targaryens and all westeros being concerned by dany and her dragons 🖤🖤

#queen daenerys #daenerys defense squad #daenerys targeryan #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #game of thrones daenerys #game of thrones #hotd rhaenyra #queen rhaenyra #daemon x rhaenyra #daemyra #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #house targaryen #visenya targaryen #team black #house of the dragon #hotd

[agentrouka-blog]

i love reading jonsa metas bc they’re my favs and they really do deserve a love story like that, but unfortunately grrm said that the show was an accurate adaptation and that he has known the endings of the main characters for YEARS, we know that he told d&d a bunch of stuff… maybe it’ll be left open for interpretation, let’s see :/

His response to the question of accuracy was a little more nuanced than that, ("yes and no. And yes and no.") and I dare say in the very broad strokes it reflects the book endings. (King Bran, queen Sansa, traveller Arya, dead Jaime and Cersei, ambiguously influential Tyrion, villain Dany dead, destruction of KL, Jon does not take up a Targaryen crown and stay South, etc.)

But that's not necessarily accurate in the details, in its level of completion, and certainly not in the lead-up.

Because while he told D&D a bunch of stuff, they liberally left out crucial plot points and tried to replace them in unrelated plotlines, which rendered some depictions unrecognizably nonsensical (Dorne), left main characters without cathartic high points (Arya and LSH), and forced some characters into roles not meant for them just to fill the resulting void. Butterflies of changes down the line turned into dragons, as GRRM put it. Accurate this is not. And when you follow the pattern of what they chose to leave out, it's usually related to emotional arcs or more complex examinations of grief and ethics and the general anti-war messaging. Lady Stoneheart, nearly all of Dorne, Brienne's AFFC plot, Aegon VI, Manderly, the Gilly baby swap, Tyrion's Tysha obsession, Euron and Aeron.... Jonsa fits into that pattern. It's not a flashy explosive twist that celebrates violence. It's more complex and cerebral and soft. They didn't like it. Of course, they didn't like it. And still you see traces of where they began to adapt it initially. That should tell you something.

I see absolutely no reason to consider the show and its ending to be an argument against the jonsa theory and a jonsa ending.

#jonsa #anti game of thrones #anti d&d

[lilith-91]

Daenerys and Rhaegar haters, how does it feel to always be loud and wrong? 🤔 That's not an easy accomplishment

You are so uncreative and unfunny bruh

How long will y'all come up with broken record bs? every single Rhaegar and Dany anti repeats the same nonsense, its a pattern trained bot

Try new fresh takes like "they killed my grandmother" or "they beat little kittens" at least the discussions are gonna be interesting again

#asoiaf #rhaegar targaryen #daenerys targaryen #house targaryen #anti asoiaf fandom

[atopvisenyashill]

So disguting to see Martells white stan acting like anti racist & POC allies because they stan fictional brown people (lbr Martells are clearly Catholic Italians) but so many of them are silent on the Palestinian genocide (but thankfully that means they wont use anymore the screenshot of GRRM saying he based Dorne on Palestine).

the martells are not "clearly" catholic italians, they are actually based on the moors, which was a shorthand for "muslims" regardless of race, so it refers to an entire religious-ethnic group of the maghreb, al andalus, and malta, which is a wide swath of area but if you'll notice - it does not include Italy because we are in the Iberian Peninsula and not the Mediterranean. If we're talking "people we consider white that Dorne is based on" the answer is Wales not the Italians. There are Welsh Marches and Spanish Marches, Welsh rulers called themselves "Princes", they were culturally different from the rest of the Isles, etc. Also, being a hypocrite about Palestine isn't going to stop people from saying that Dorne is based on Palestine because that's not a fandom thing people made up, that's just the truth. It's literally right there in plain english on so spake martin:

And beyond that - idk why you would say Dorne is Catholic Italy as if Oldtown and the Hightowers aren't right there being Medici as FUCK like come on now.

As for your other weird ass point...a lot of people in the imperial core - no, not just the USA, I will not let Canadians and Brits get away with pretending like they don't have western privilege, thanks - are uncomfortable with the idea that they benefit from the suffering of PoC in the third world, or that they may yet have some unlearning about their own complicity and ignorance to the sufferings of others. Yes, I find it annoying, frustrating, infuriating that someone can spend all their "fun" time critiquing the Targaryens for the Dornish Conquest or Dany for the mess in Meereen and Astapor yet are incapable of turning that criticism inwards because it might mean they have to think about parts of themselves and their privilege they don't want to, but you can say this about every fandom because what you consume does not necessarily mean you understand what you're consuming. Look at how Bojack Horseman essentially had to turn to the audience and say "Bojack is not a man you want to be like you fucking freaks" because the subtext was not sinking in. Look at how a bunch of Broadway stars got together to sing "Bring Him Home" as if Les Miserables isn't based off a true story where a group of oppressed people rebelled through violent action including kidnapping nobility and those of the royal family for ransom. The dissonance is everywhere; when I notice someone who seems too far gone into some bs racist colonizer mindset, I simply unfollow and/or block. It's just not worth my time to debate whether a genocide is a genocide.

Also, this is a really weirdly worded ask and I would deeply appreciate if people didn't do this in my ask box. If you want to genuinely discuss politics, fine, go hit up my main, if you want to genuinely discuss fandom racism or asoiaf in general, also fine, but whatever this ask is? It's tacky and I need you to really think about the way you're bringing a real life genocide going on right now that your tax dollars are paying for into this fandom nonsense.

#lovely nonsense to wake up to. #asks #anons

[finitefall]

out of curiosity have you watched the youtubers hills alive dany vids ( I avoided them because she seems to be a dany anti given the title of the vids ) but is she one of the people you talk about when talking about dany antis since recently she made a vid saying that her crucifixion of the masters proves she is a bad queen

I just watched it since many people are talking about it. More nonsense, but I’m sure a lot of people are eating it up - including antis Dany who insisted for years that it made her a tyrant, or mad, and who will now say “have you watched this video? it’s proof that she’s a bad queen!” because they found someone who sounded smarter than them. I’m not gonna comment everything, only a few parts:

Killing people who have enslaved, abused, mutilated, and murdered countless people for their own profit is not something anyone will ever be inclined to argue against.

Funny, because that’s exactly what antis Dany have been doing for years.

Ultimately, regardless of who did what, these are all masters who engaged in human trafficking and all sorts of unimaginable violations of basic human rights.

Duh. So it’s wrong because...? Ah, yes, an “interesting” take on why it makes Dany a bad Queen: she didn’t know which masters were responsible for the 163 crucified children, so she shouldn’t have allowed the Meereenese to pick which ones would be killed. There was no investigation or trial. Please explain to me how she could have discovered the ones responsible for the 163 crucified children, how she could have been sure those were the ones guilty of that particular crime with everyone accusing each other to be spared? It wasn’t possible. Either she’s delusional about it, either she’s aware of it and is, in fact, saying that Dany shouldn’t have killed any of the masters.

Ironically, despite the fact that this was meant to be a harsh punishment to the slavers [...], it actually provided a lot of the more politically intelligent and manipulative masters of Meereen with an opportunity to strengthen themselves and get rid of potential rivals. [...] They would put forward their enemies and protect their allies. Or they would simply throw out the weakest of the bunch because there would be little consequences for betraying the people who aren’t truly powerful in their societal structure. So what that in mind, it is a near certainty that some if not most of the people who Dany killed were not only not responsible for what she was killing them for, but wound up on the literal cross because they were not powerful enough for their compatriots to bother protecting them, or because someone with more sway or political acumen wanted them gone.

That sounds like an interesting, logical argument. Except that Dany isn’t stupid and she knew she couldn’t discover who was responsible for the 163 crucified children. So she sent a message instead by asking the Meereenese to hand over 163 of their leaders and crucify them: you shouldn’t have done that, and this is what’s gonna happen to you if you touch innocents again. If she had picked herself who would be punished, she would be blamed too since she had no way of knowing which slavers were behind the crucifixion of the 163 children. If she had thought that it would be the ones responsible for it, the most powerful people in Meereen, the most dangerous who were chosing which ones would die and decided to punish the former ones instead, she would have been accused, again, of not having any proof.

So Dany was supposed to go to Meereen and tell them they were terrible people, but not do anything. That’s what she’s saying in this video.

She largely seems to see Meereen as a trial run to figure out how she is going to rule Westeros.

That person has literally zero understanding of Daenerys. She chose to fight slavery because she’s been a slave herself. She cares about those people. She’s not fighting slavery to figure out how she’s gonna rule the Seven Kingdoms: she’s fighting slavery because it’s a fight she believes in. It’s so important to her character, you can’t even talk about Daenerys Targaryen without talking about this.

If there were anyone among them who supported Daenerys or had some kind of ethical agreement with her desire to revolutionize the slave cities, they ironically were almost certainly among those that the Meereenese offered up to be killed.

That’s only a wild guess, with no proof to back it up. Does she truly believe any of those slavers wanted things to change? Of course they didn’t.

She then points out Dany’s previous mistakes, because apparently everyone is allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, except Dany. Once she made a mistake, they have the proof that she’s not a good ruler and will never be a good Queen. What’s interesting though in this video is that she points out the subtext in ASOIAF, how GRRM is writing a storyline with a message behind it. She’s doing the same thing here, avoiding the past mistakes of antis Dany. She doesn’t try to defend the slavers, she doesn’t try to excuse any of the masters, she doesn’t say Dany shouldn’t have done anything. Instead, she’s pointing out how Dany is a bad Queen because of how she tries to fight slavery, offering absolutely no opinion on what she could have done to succeed.

And that’s really the whole point of this video, in fact: Dany doesn’t offer a good justice and made enemies because of course slavers don’t want her to be in Meereen fighting slavery. There’s no good way to fight slavery, so she shouldn’t have been in Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen. If she’s gonna make mistakes, it’s best not to do anything. If she’s not gonna succeed, it’s not worth trying. Slavery is absolutely atrocious, she insists on this in her video and I do believe she is sincere (edit: after knowing more about her, she isn’t being sincere at all), but it’s not our business and it’s not Dany’s business. We can’t fight it, so we’re just gonna sit around and cry about it. It’s nor our fault, really. In fact, people like Dany trying to break the status quo are the ones in fault because they start huge fights and wars instead of coming up with a miraculous way to peacefully end slavery.

With those kind of videos, it’s always interesting to read the comments and here’s one:

All of this has me wondering about Faegon. He's a lot like Egg (King Aegon V) from the Dunk and Egg stories if you think about it. A prince who knows what it is to live like a commoner and have a hard life and who generally seems like he'd be an advocate for the commonfolk and perhaps not too brutal as well. He seems, by all accounts, someone who might be a good King yet he is likely not the real Aegon VI but something like a Blackfyre imposter. In contrast, Dany is unquestionably a Targaryen who even has dragons yet she fits the way Varys describes Tommon to Kevan "Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right." and is quite brutal. I think George might be saying "She is technically the rightful Queen but this imposter would actually make for a better ruler than her." a sort of play on the common trope of a rightful heir rising, regaining the old Kingdom and ruling justly. She won't rule justly, I reckon, but the imposter would have and therein lies the irony. My pet theory anyway.

This comment was liked by Hill’s Alive, and I had a feeling that was proven right when I looked to see if she had made a video about Young Griff. I didn’t watch it and have no intention to (there’s also so much bullshit I can take from one person), but her theory is that Young Griff, a character introduced in the fifth book, is actually the real Aegon (son of Rhaegar and Elia). I’m certain she explains very well how he will be a good King unlike Dany. She already didn’t have much credibility in this video about the 163 crucified masters (she tried though, and sounds much more convincing and intelligent than the “mad queen killed innocents slavers” antis, I’ll give her that), but she doesn’t have any credibility left at all with Young Griff.

#ASOIAF #Daenerys Targaryen #hillsalive criticism #answered

[fromtheseventhhell]

Mind you the "girl bosses" in question are Dany: who has been sold as a bridal slave at 13, been on the run and feared for her life since she was born, rarely known safety and security, been used as payment by her abusive brother and further abused by the husband she was given too, who has made it a point to protect other women around her from further harm despite having little agency, who faced multiple assassination attempts and the painful loss of her child, vowed to defend others who couldn't defend themselves, has faced constant misogyny on her journey to doing so, has put her own ambitions on hold in order to help others, and is currently the only character enacting wild scale revolution in order to protect a class of people nobody else is fighting for. And Arya: who has been on the run since the end of AGOT starving and scared, has been thrust into a warzone and directly affected by the violent impact, was witness to the horrific torture of the smallfolk by the mountain and his men, was captured and forced into servitude at Harrenhal, was beaten and threatened with sexual violence, who has witnessed countless people she cared about die including her father, mother, and brother, and who still remembers those who lost their lives when nobody else has and done her best to get justice for them.

Yeah, It's soooooo feminist to treat these two female characters like they're lesser because they aren't traditionally feminine. I find it funny how the ones who talk about the importance of valuing "feminine" strengths are the same ones who erase them from Dany and Arya. All of their intelligence, kindness, empathy, etc. get thrown out and their characters are reduced to ones who only know violence. Even the suffering and abuse they've gone through is treated as less impactful and they're given no sympathy. It's an interesting circle of them being misogynistic so that they can justify their misogyny to themselves. It also highlights how little they believe in the things they're saying. Supporting "feminine" characters has just become a convenient way of propping up their favorites; feminism is nothing but a disposable tool. If they actually cared then they wouldn't be rewriting characters to make them seem more "masculine", and in fact wouldn't care about that distinction at all. The female characters have a lot of overlapping experiences afterall.

No one is saying you have to like Arya or Dany, but being misogynistic toward them and trying to disguise it as feminism is disgusting. There's also no way of doing so that won't inevitably reflect poorly on the characters you claim to love. There's nothing productive about making such restrictive boxes for female characters. If you really don't care about them then you don't have to talk about them. It's as simple as that. But if putting them down is the only way you have of propping up your fave, then maybe it's time to find a character that you actually like.

#daenerys targaryen #pro daenerys targaryen #arya stark #pro arya stark #anti bs #fandom nonsense #anti jonsa stans #anti sansa stans #hurray for putting down these young girls who have faced incredible violence and abuse because they aren't traditionally feminine! #and I love how they used my post to start shit-talking Arya and Dany when I didn't even mention Sansa in the post! #they literally treat liking Arya and Dany as Sansa hate it's insane #sorry but Arya and Dany are the two main female characters they're just going to be more popular 🤷🏾‍♀️ #on top of that Dany is arguably one of the most iconic characters of all time #it's not misogynistic to like them more than Sansa

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Everyone has shit to say about stan culture when it comes to targ fans but can I remind everyone that before this latest hbo shitfest, nobody - apart from maybe a few dedicated misogynists - was arguing that Rhaenyra deserved to be deposed and femicided, that her half-brothers were actually decent people who loved their family rather than power hungry misogynists, or that the greens were the ones to carry on the dynasty with secret bastards. This is all completely new discourse, and behind all of it you’ll find rampant Dany and targ antis. This is what stan culture actually is: hating a character and/or their family so much because they get in the way of your favorites that you invent nonsensical theories and even go as far as arguing that the femicide of their ancestor was a good thing.

What Targaryen antis don't understand is that whether they stan Team Black or Team Green, those characters are still TARGARYENS. They should stan the ancestors of House Tully or something but ofc they are more interested in the royal family despite supposedly hating anything Targ related, dragons included.

#hotd ask #asoiaf ask #hotd #house targaryen

[briarruler]

Masterpost for all of my Danny Phantom related posts.

Thoughts and Comments

For the Ghosts: why Danny keeps his secret.

Danny turning up at Sam's in the early morning.

Decided I don't like Memory Blank.

Do the students of Casper High know that Spectra was a ghost?

I shall call him 'Plasmius Phantom'.

Ghosts consider a day to be from one Sunset to the next?

Micro Management's Mouse.

King Tuck's eyeliner.

I don't think Freakshow knew Danny Phantom was half-human.

Amorpho did not know Phantom was a Halfa.

Students at camp during Claw of the Wild.

Tucker's reason Danny should keep his powers is logical.

Human to ghost and retaining hair.

Danielle is not 12.

Alternate Universes

Halfa Trio AUs

Halfa Trio AU ideas where their transformations are linked.

The Portal Kawoosh as an explanation for a Halfa Trio.

Ideas for Halfa Trio AUs with Identical Ghost Form.

Three for the Portal AU

Three for the Portal: Half-Ghost Trio Fusing via Overshadowing.

Three for the Portal: Names.

Description of the Trio's ghost-forms.

Ecto-Acne Trigger AU

Ecto-Acne Triggered Ghostification AU.

Other Trio AUs

Halfa Sam and Tucker, Human Danny AU

AU Idea: Half-Ghosts Sam and Tucker.

Lemures and Poltergeist.

Ghost Sam AUs

The Human, The Ghost and The Liminal.

AU where Sam died in the Portal.

Ghost Trio

My Dead Trio AU Masterpost.

Other AUs

Danny actually hides his transformation.

Star Mythology empowered Danny AU.

Sam with the Ring and Tucker with the Crown.

Full Ghost AU but the divergence happening during Memory Blank.

Fenton Crammer AU

Fenton Crammer used to imprison enemies.

Who Danny could uses the Fenton Crammer on.

Thoughts and Questions

Have we ever seen the Fenton Thermos not capture a ghost?

Fenton Thermos and humans?

Overshadowing and the Fenton Thermos?

Request for Overshadowing Theories/Analysis.

Why does Danny get shipped with Dash more often then Tucker?

What would the Fenton Peeler do to Danny?

Fanart

Bad Chibi Avatars: Danny Fenton-Phantom.

Bad Chibi Avatars: Ghostly Tucker Foley.

Bad Chibi Avatars: Ghostly Sam Manson.

Bad Chibi Avatars: Everyday Human and Colour Inverted Ghost forms.

Crossover Related

A pokemon team for Danny.

Masterpost for my Danny Phantom Pokemon fusion idea.

Pariah Dark's voice just gave me sudden Nene flashbacks.

The Box Ghost goes looking for the world of Blue Dragon.

Everyone goes ghost crossover beginning.

Amity Park unaffected in during Young Justice: Misplaced.

Ghost King Danny 'gifted' John Constantine's soul.

A Better World triggered discovery of Amity Park.

Sam Manson and the Justice Lords.

Justice Lords mentoring Team Phantom.

Santa vs Darkseid as the Origin of the Christmas Truce.

Team Phantom's side gig as minor supervillains.

Team Phantom moves to England and Phantom meets Constantine.

Amity Park unaffected by outside nonsense.

Superheroes were taken out by ghostly team up in TUE timeline.

Why Batman shouldn't try to adopt Danny.

Scarab Sceptre Museum Heist Crossover continuation.

Other Stuff

The problem with Sam's plan in Memory Blank.

Reason I don't use the Fandom's Ghost Obsession headcanon.

Straight up colour inverted ghost forms.

Disproven Penelope Spectra Theory.

Draft of a dates given in show-canon canon.

An Ask.

Would Half-Ghost Sam commit crimes?

For Humanity or for Love?

Secret Identity Fight: Ghosts are dead vs Danny's lack of subtly.

A possible limit on Clockwork.

Duplication vs all the other powers Danny could be trying to learn.

The less you know, the more likely to connect Phantom to Fenton.

Tucker is the Team Phantom member with lands in the Ghost Zone.

Dani is useful to a Team Phantom trying to hide.

The Fenton Ghost Portal causes a Ghost Zone population boom.

What does canon gives us about ghosts and food?

Can the Fenton Ghost Catcher create a Halfa?

A reason for Walker's ban of human world objects?

The Ghost King as an anti-mind control role.

Scarab Sceptre museum Heist.

The Infinite Realms declare war on America.

Summoning Circle Duplicates.

Will be updated via editing as needed.

#Masterpost #Danny Phantom

[hellsbellschime]

redux of my last message. Giah is skrull in the mcu who is a foreign invader (along with many of her kind), who is trying make Earth her new home planet along with some members of species because they’ve fighting these assholes named the kree who want every planet. and so giah came to earth with her parents at young age during the captain marvel movie. & she got killed in the show. giah ended up being hated for how terrible she is. & giah gets shot & ummm… this EC stan was pissed at a giah anti saying blaming it all on the Sansa v Dany drama from 4 years ago. and i couldn’t just keep this to myself. and giah is even resurrected. so…,

that’s all.

Oh LOL okay so it was supposed to be nonsensical, I was like wait what is even happening and why is Wanda here. Truly even as someone who has made beaucoup de content about Dany, no one cares about Dany as much as her stans think that they do.

#fandom fuckery for ts

[b0tis]

I had a response to an anonymous message readied in my drafts but Tumblr has decided to fucking obliterate it so here goes nothing;

Basically I expressed my disappointment with the way they handled Rhea. Then I received a reply that stated that they made Daemon kill her, as opposed to her death in the book, because HBO dislikes the Targaryens (since they're an incestuous dynasty) and is scared that if they made them look more sympathetic, "people would come for them". Anon also mentioned something about Daemon being supposed to be portrayed as morally gray. And I uhhhh disagree. So here is, more or less, my response to all that.

I was not a part of the GOT fandom during Dany's character assassination but I dare assume HBO does not give a crap about the values of House Targaryen and whether the content of their shows is moral or not. If they minded giving incestuous relationships a platform, I doubt GOT would have seen a light of day at all. Streaming platforms don't tend to care about whether viewers will come for their heads or not. And if the audience finds certain characters likeable, they'll stick around to see more of them on the screen = more money for HBO.

That being said, I don't see the way they decided to handle the scene as some part of anti-Targaryen agenda. No, the answer is apparently far simpler: the man responsible for writing for this week's episode seems to be downright fucking goofy in his inability to comprehend the reading material he's being presented with.

I dreaded the way they were going to solve this [scene] not because I refused to believe he'd be willing to kill his wife but because this solution seems just. unnecessary and unnecessarily stupid. Did they add that in to make us believe he all of the sudden took a turn and decided to end Rhea to be able to marry Rhaenyra? For someone who marries her against many odds later on anyway... that seems like a weak argument. Idk, the scene just seemes disjointed and like a waste of time (and Rhea's character) to me.

And let's be clear, I do not care for Daemon being shown as likeable! He is anything but, most of the time! And when he does have his likeable moments, most can't help but wonder if they're without underlying intentions. So this is not to whine about Daemon being villainised, I wouldn't even readily agree on him being morally gray! No, it's just that we did not need to see him in his ratty lil cloak, spitefully bashing Rhea's head in with a rock to realise that the man is vile. We have already seen him doing vile things and there are many more to come. The scene simply felt childishly edgy to me. And on one hand I'm glad we even got to see Lady Royce and witness her taking absolutely none of Targaryen's nonsense, throwing facts left, right and centre, but ehhhhh at what cost.

*And before anyone mentions it, I know their marriage was fucking miserable and a political flop pretty much since the very beginning. And that for some reason they have been refused an annulment many times. Not the point I'm making here. We just did not need that scene from a narrative and technical perspective.

#this episode felt really meh in more places than i'd like to admit even though i've had fun watching it #they did my girl rhea dirty AND FOR WHAT #and chile i know many of yall dont care about her but uhh i do #house of the dragon #daemon targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #anti house targaryen #house targaryen #rhea royce #lady rhea #lady rhea royce #hotd spoilers #game of thrones #anti targ stans #anti targaryen stans #which is funny since im taking no sides but ehh

[jackoshadows]

Why do you think there is so much animosity between Sansa fans and Dany fans? I can understand how conflict comes up between Sansa fans and Arya fans given the conflict between the characters but I can’t figure out what the issue is with Dany fans vs Sansa fans. It can’t JUST be because of shipping, right? I’m a big fan of Dany, Arya, and Jon, but I still do like (canon) Sansa as a character and honestly see a lot of similarities between her and Dany. Their stories have definite parallels and anti parallels and I don’t really know why I don’t see anyone else talk about it. Every time I try to talk to a Sansa blog or a fellow Dany blog about it, I never hear back. What gives??

I don't like the both siding in this ask. Sansa fans keep spewing hateful nonsense, farcical theories and made up headcanons in the form of 'intellectual' discourse in the Dany/Arya/Jon tags and then when book fans of those characters respond, the so called 'neutral' bnfs pretend both sides are to blame.

All this explained very clearly here.

And while I personally feel that Dany and Sansa have very little in common as characters, there's a lot of fandom metas/essays/gifsets and fanarts paralleling these two as fandom faves. You should be able to find them on many of the character blogs if you are interested in that sort of thing.

IMO, Daenerys is clearly written as a tier I main character. She drives her story more than any other character in the series as the sole representative of her house and considering how isolated she is from every other POV character. The story in her POV is about her.

If we are looking at parallels, then it's Daenerys and Arya who have a lot of commonality in their way of thinking, their concern for the little guy, in their ideas of justice and dispensing that justice, right and wrong, their toughing it out on their way to the top, their proactive nature in getting things done, to be in charge, their love of nature etc.

With respect to the increase in toxicity from the Sansa fandom post show, then yes, that's because of shipping and Jonsa. A lot of the hate that the character of Daenerys gets is from Sansa fans - especially on Tumblr - because of her foreshadowed future relationship with Jon Snow and they want fanon, self-insert Sansa to have Dany's plot importance and story in the books. It's different on asoiaf sites like Reddit and Westeros.org - the majority of Dany hate on there is from Stannis/Jon Snow fans who are not big fans of a female character being the prophesied chosen one/top dog of the series.

And I point to shipping being the big reason because of my personal fandom experience on this site. This is me going down memory lane but I remember around 2015/16, I wrote these angry, frustrated posts calling out the TV show for taking Jon's book plot and writing that for show Sansa and Sansa's actions in the Battle of the Bastards in season 6. At that time a lot of Dany fans were also big Sansa fans and attacked me for being a 'misogynistic dudebro'. I am not naming names - shit's in the past - but I used to get blocked and get hateful inbox messages for criticizing show Sansa's actions.

During season 6 there were so many posts about Jon Snow being an useless idiot who deserved to die, Sansa was right to not tell him because he's a moron, Sansa's the politician/general who knows best, she deserved to be queen, Jon's the worst for stealing Sansa's birthright else Sansa and Dany would have ruled as best queens of westeros etc. - all from Daenerys fans!!

This was some kind of superficial notion of girl power with Sansa and Dany girlbossing around Westeros, bow down before these Queens sort of thing and fuck the actual book story. Arya was never included in these conversations because she did not wear dresses and Maisie Williams was not conventionally beautiful like Emilia Clarke and Sophie Turner and therefore did not fit into these Girlboss headcanons.

And then before season 7 was when we got the leaked spoilers of Jonerys meeting at Dragonstone. And this was when the full toxicity of the Jonsa shippers was unleashed. This was when we got 'Political!Jon' and all sorts of vile hate for Daenerys and more and more Dany fans started to react to that hate from the Sansa fandom.

Fandom always, always influences our likes and dislikes of characters (This is why I stay away from some fandoms - I don't want to end up hating characters) And this is what happened here. The Sansa/Jonsa fandom was so vile that a lot of Dany fans on tumblr stopped stanning for Sansa.

Fast forward to 2019 and the same Dany stans - again, not naming names but the very same Dany stans - who attacked me for being a sexist, male dude for critiquing show Sansa in season 6, started critiquing show Sansa when Dany got the same treatment that Jon, Arya and Bran got before her with the show tearing down these characters to prop up Sansa. Suddenly it was no longer misogynistic to call out how these characters were being torn down in order to prop up Sansa when they share scenes with her 😂😂😂.

That’s why I don’t hold much stock in words like ‘misogyny’ and ‘sexist’ randomly thrown around without context by the stans of female characters to attack people for critiquing said female character. I have been at the receiving end of this for years from the Jonsa fandom because I call out their utter nonsense.

The sexism and misogyny occurs when a female character is criticized for doing the same thing a male character is praised for - for ex. Daenerys gets a lot of this because she has parallel arcs with Jon Snow and very often she gets attacked for doing the same things that Jon is praised for. Even the show did this - Dany getting unfair flack for executing traitors when Jon Snow and the North do it all the time. The sexism is in how Arya gets attacked as being ‘male-coded’ because she’s not the right kind of girl. The sexism is in the slut shaming and commentary about how Daenerys is not the right kind of rape victim. The sexism is in the popular theories like political!Jon - wherein Jon Snow turns into LF 2.0 and sexually manipulates and seduces a rape victim.

Sexism is not simply liking a male character or critiquing a female character - there needs to be context. One does not simply throw around these heavy words simply to attack other bloggers to win fandom points. The word then loses it’s meaning.

So yeah, I ended up going on a tangent about my fandom experiences when the show was running. I do think a lot of the beef and toxicity in this fandom comes from shipping and Sansa fans wanting her to be something she is not. They want her to be a tier I main character with the story revolving around her love life as she Disney princess rules the North with sewing and dancing. And this leads to them diminishing the actual main characters and taking away from main characters to give to her. Naturally fans of the main character are going to push back against this.

And Sansa is a classist, sexist character and so her fans espouse classist, sexist viewpoints to justify her actions. Their love for all things 'traditional' and sticking to the status quo - 'Jon being KITN would be boring, he should stay a bastard, Arya being lady of WF is not right as she does not want to wear dresses, Dany will be mad like her father she can't escape her genes, Tyrion is doomed' etc. is based on Sansa being a traditional, pro-status quo character. Hence why there is so much clashing of ideas and discourse happening in the fandom.

So yeah. Honestly, I am just tired of seeing all these posts bothsiding fandom drama and making it seem like all the stans are equally responsible when the majority of fandom toxicity is started by stans of one character - Sansa - with the result being fans of other characters pushing back against their nonsense.

#asks #This turned into a long post damn #fandom memories