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jackoshadows · 3 years

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Do you think that Daenerys will burn kings landing in the books? She did it on the show and she has to show the strength of her dragons in Westeros like in Essos.

For the answer to this question, I would direct you to Dany blogs that dissect her story arc using the books. You could read their theories and speculations based on the books and come to your own conclusion on this.

As for my speculations on this,

1. Dany has done nothing so far in the last 5 books that leads towards her going on a random rampage in KL. She has shown a lot of concern and care towards the civilians and common folk of Essos. More than the likes of Robb Stark for example.

2. Dany burning down KL would turn her into her father. This goes against what I think is GRRM’s message in the series - that the younger generation can rise above their birth and the societal biases against them.

3. That said, I do think that the author means for us to question and speculate, along with Daenerys, if she would turn into her father. This is an internal conflict that the character is struggling with and a part of her story. More on this below the cut.*

4. I think there will be a second dance of dragons between Young Griff/Aegon and Daenerys in KL. Going back to the original outline, the second book of the original trilogy - titled the Dance of Dragons - was supposed to be about Dany’s conquest of Westeros. There will be casualties in this war. GRRM has been explicit about the consequences of war on the small folk due to the WOT5K. Robb Stark may have had a just cause but innocent people suffered and died due to his war for independence. Even with Stannis’ march to Winterfell, we see a 14 year old soldier being burned to death as punishment for cannibalizing a corpse because he was so hungry and there’s no food. War is brutal.

5. Dany can win KL without massacring thousands. The Lannisters did it in the books when they sacked KL and no one - not even the honorable Ned Stark - complained about it. She could have done it on the show and won - except, suddenly pacifist Tyrion kept advising against it. In fact if the dragons act as a nuclear deterrent, there will be less casualties. Aegon the conqueror won the North without a single casualty.

5. Westeros is already in a bad way and winter has come to KL by the end of the fifth book. Dany will end up in charge of a war torn Westeros down south. By which time, the North is overrun, Winterfell is lost and the survivors head south. IMO, the Others will not be defeated at Winterfell in 30 minutes like on the show. They are the central antagonists and the last book will mostly be about the rest of Westeros uniting against them. Dany will acknowledge the central premise of the series - ‘ When dead men come hunting in the night, do you think it matters who sits the Iron Throne?’ and joins Jon, Bran, Arya and others to defeat the army of the dead.

6. I have no idea how her story will end in the books. Considering she dies on the show and if it’s the same in the books, I would think that if she goes out she will go out a hero and not a villain. There’s a lot of prophecies associated with her and I would speculate that her character is instrumental in defeating the Others. Fire and Ice and all that.

7. And speculate is all we can do, considering we will never get the last book and a conclusion to GRRM’s version of the story.

* Now to expand a little bit on the point number 3 above.

I would like to comment on a line of thought/discourse regarding Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow and Targaryen madness.

I have seen a few posts from time to time making the assertion that if one speculates on mad queen Dany, but does not do the same for Jon Snow, then this is sexism. I disagree.

Now, if one is making that argument that by genetics, Daenerys Targaryen is designed to go mad and she will go mad, burn down KL and die while Jon goes on to be King or goes into exile etc. then yes, this argument would indeed be sexist, IMO. If we are going to speculate based on Targaryen genetics, then, not much is different between Jon and Dany. They are both Targaryens. Dany is not fire proof and neither is Jon. While Dany has some strongly prophetic dragon dreams, there are indications that Jon’s dreams are prophetic as well.

“Sleep came at last, and with it nightmares. He dreamed of burning castles and dead men rising unquiet from their graves”

He has dreamed of Winterfell burning, of Ned being executed, of being told that he is not a Stark by the old kings of winter in the crypts where his mother is buried and of Bran as a weirwood.

Jon’s dream here is very similar to what Dany dreams of:

“Snow,” an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. - Jon Snow

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.- Daenerys Targaryen

We know zombie ice spiders are going to be a thing. And the armor of black ice that Jon references here could be Euron Greyjoy’s black valyrian steel armor.

So if Dany is going to go mad because of genetics, then there is every chance that Jon will as well.

But from a narrative point of view, the author wants us to question if Dany will go the same way as her father. The mad king Aerys III is a part of Dany’s story. She questions if she is going to become her father. Other characters – allies and enemies – do the same. It’s a conflict that Dany wrestles with as she comes to terms with her Targaryen identity. It’s an obstacle she faces as she takes on both enemies and friends.

"Freedom to starve?" asked Dany sharply. "Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?" Am I mad? Do I have the taint? (ASOS, Daenerys VI)

A shadow. A memory. No one. She was the blood of the dragon, but Ser Barristan had warned her that in that blood there was a taint. Could I be going mad? They had called her father mad, once. (ADWD, Daenerys II)

The old knight did not blink. "Your father is called 'the Mad King' in Westeros. Has no one ever told you?"

"Viserys did." The Mad King. "The Usurper called him that, the Usurper and his dogs." The Mad King. "It was a lie."

"Why ask for truth," Ser Barristan said softly, "if you close your ears to it?" He hesitated, then continued. "I told you before that I used a false name so the Lannisters would not know that I'd joined you. That was less than half of it, Your Grace. The truth is, I wanted to watch you for a time before pledging you my sword. To make certain that you were not . . ."

". . . my father's daughter?" If she was not her father's daughter, who was she?

". . . mad," he finished. "But I see no taint in you."

And then there is the discourse that her enemies start about her being mad. The propaganda that she is just like her father. Propaganda that will no doubt be also used in Westeros.

The clever Volantene swordsman who always seemed to have his nose poked in some crumbly scroll, thought the dragon queen both murderous and mad. "Her khal killed her brother to make her queen. Then she killed her khal to make herself khaleesi. She practices blood sacrifice, lies as easily as she breathes, turns against her own on a whim. She's broken truces, tortured envoys … her father was mad too. It runs in the blood." (ADWD, The Windblown)

Madness and the mad king is nowhere in Jon’s story arcs or narrative themes. GRRM still thinks that R+L=J is some big secret and was so impressed that Benioff and Weiss figured it out he gave them the show. The author does not question whether Jon is going to become a mad Targaryen with a fascination for burning people to death.

Jon’s internal conflicts and the problems he has to surmount are different in nature. He is a bastard born of ‘lust and deceit’. If we want a connection here to the Targaryens that explores Jon’s narrative arc, then there is the Blackfyre rebellion. Daemon Blackfyre’s attempt to usurp the throne is used as an example in Westeros to be wary of all bastards, noble or base born.

So if the speculation is that Dany is going to turn into her father and become the mad queen, then the narrative equivalent for Jon would be that he would be a deceitful usurper who takes Winterfell from his trueborn siblings.

And this is something that is explored in Jon’s story.

When Stannis offers Winterfell to Jon, the only reason he does not accept is because of his oaths as a NW brother and his reluctance to burn down the heart trees in Winterfell. But in his heart, he wants it.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger … he could feel it. — Jon Snow, ASOS

Just as Dany wrestles with whether she will turn into her father, Jon wrestles with his feelings of wanting Winterfell and feeling ashamed of those feelings.

His dreams in regards to this are interesting:

The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled …- Jon XII, ADWD

Jon literally beheads Robb in his dreams.

There is a lot of speculation here that after he comes back from the dead, we are going to get a darker Jon Snow who is going to go after Winterfell and not care much about the trueborn siblings ahead of him in the queue. We could see conflict between Jon and Rickon or Jon and Sansa. The original outline hinted that Jon and Bran would not get along.

And just like Dany faces the ‘Mad Queen’ propaganda because of Aerys III, Jon too faces the biased prejudice against bastards because of the actions of Daemon Blackfyre. While prejudice against bastards existed before then, the Blackfyres are often used as an example to caution against them.

Catelyn’s hatred for Jon Snow is based on the fear that someday he would usurp and take away Winterfell from her children.

“Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”

“Precedent,” she said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may have by Jeyne will never be safe.” - Catelyn, ASoS

Similarly the Blackfish – having not even met Jon Snow – distrusts him.

"I will permit you to take the black. Ned Stark's bastard is the Lord Commander on the Wall."

The Blackfish narrowed his eyes. "Did your father arrange for that as well? Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both..." - Jaime Lannister, AFfC

The existing prejudices against bastards in Westeros is strong.

"Trueborn children are made in a marriage bed and blessed by the Father and Mother, but bastards are born of lust and weakness." - Jon Snow

Orys Baratheon was a baseborn half brother to Lord Aegon, it was whispered, and the Storm King would not dishonor his daughter by giving her hand to a bastard. The very suggestion enraged him.

Go away, I wanted only Freys up here, the King in the North has no interest in base stock.— Walder Frey to little Walda Rivers

Bastard children were born from lust and lies, men said; their nature was wanton and treacherous. Once Jon had meant to prove them wrong, to show his lord father he could as good a true son as Robb Stark - Jon Snow

So both Jon and Dany face internal conflicts and the author wishes to interrogate if Dany can overcome her own self doubts with respect to her father and society’s opinions of her and if Jon can overcome his desires and personal ambition for Winterfell and society’s opinions of bastards as untrustworthy and deceitful.

If a reader is therefore making the argument that Dany will become the mad queen like her father and burn down everyone – they should also rightfully be arguing for Jon turning against his family for a selfish power grab and essentially turning into Daemon Blackfyre.

Remember how Daemon took the Targaryen sigil with colors reversed – a black dragon on red giving him the nickname ‘The Black Dragon’

Jon was referred to as the ‘White Wolf’ on the show and as per the books, two bastards have reversed the sigils. Jon’s direwolf Ghost is white and he would therefore have a white wolf on a grey background as opposed to the Stark grey direwolf on a white background.

The sexism arises when Dany is singled out for turning into exactly what her enemies expect her to be, while the Starks overcome societal prejudices and expectations and end up the heroes. That, while Dany turns into her father, Jon Snow continues to love his Stark family (i.e Sansa Stark) so much and would sacrifice everything for them.

The show’s thesis and final message for these Targaryens is that they cannot rise above their birth and are exactly what society makes of them. That their final destiny is decided from birth and that they cannot change it no matter how much they tried. Daenerys turned into her father, randomly burned down KL for no reason and massacred thousands. Jon Snow pretends to support her, gets close to her, deceives her and kills her. He becomes a kinslayer, a queenslayer, a traitor – deceitful and untrustworthy and is exiled. It was an utterly nihilistic ending for house Targaryen.

I strongly believe that GRRM is not heading in this direction for these characters. It would be very disappointing if this is what he intends for them. It would indeed be sexist if GRRM wrote Dany as turning into her father, while Jon remains good and faithful to his family. From my reading and interpretation of these books, the story is about these underdogs triumphing over their internal conflicts. The conclusion of this tale would be Dany not turning into the mad queen, Jon not turning into a deceitful traitor, Arya not fleeing Westeros because she does not belong, Bran becoming king despite being a cripple.

But that is the final answer. In the meantime, GRRM means to explore these characters and their narrative themes and conflicts. In that context, it’s valid to question and theorize whether a possible direction for Dany’s story is her becoming her father. Five books in there is nothing to support this theory, but it is a theme that GRRM is interested in examining for the character of Daenerys Targaryen.

#Daenerys Targaryen #Jon Snow #asoiaf #anti GOT #asks

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sayruq · 4 years

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do you think grrm favors tyrion, jon, arya and dany too much? imo you can really feel how much he loves/indulges them, yet they are the weakest and least interesting characters???

he does give them so many chapters and sometimes that makes their storylines drag. actually dany and sansa had roughly the same amount of chapters until adwd which i am fine with because dany’s 10 chapters have a rhythm and an overarching arc that sets up dany x perfectly.

i feel like there are so many tyrion and arya chapters and half of them have little happening, no character development and could see be combined with theor other chapters. there’s a tyrion chapter where he talks to lancel which could have easily been added to his next chapter. there’s a chapter where he goes to see shae. i get it was setting up his last asos chapter but grrm could have done that just fine with 2 pages maximum. there’s an arya chapter where she tries to escape the brotherhood and not only was it boring, it added nothing. imagine if grrm added an entire chapter where sansa tried escaping her wedding. i might like reading it but i wouldn’t gain anything from it.

no wonder some people think the two of them are stagnating. i feel like grrm really enjoys writing them but he should have restrained himself because it weakens their arc. it’s the same problem with cersei in affc, he should have cut out 2 chapters but he wanted to indulge in the ‘cersei is insane’ show. this is why while brienne’s chapters are more boring, they’re better structured compared to cersei chapters (and lowkey jaime chapters). catelyn is probably the only pov character (along with sansa, arianne, dany) where every chapter serves a purpose- they either move the plot along or they develop every character involved. imagine asoiaf if grrm restrained himself and cut out the fat. few people would be complaining so much about the additional pov characters if the books were better structured and the filler was kept to a minimum.

#song of ice and fire #asoiaf meta #Anonymous

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alinaastarkov · 4 years

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Honestly, like ... it's funny cause I actually liked Sophie before Season 8 aired, because I wasn't paying that much attention to her and her behavior outside the show, you know? Other than Emilia and Kit's interviews I wasn't really following the any of the actors outside of the show. But after the finale aired and everything exploded and fell to pieces, it was like a magnifying glass was put on all of them for me. And then I saw the shit Sophie had been saying for YEARS. (1/?)

Like how it wouldn't be fair if Daenerys got the iron throne because she had dragons, that Daenerys couldn't have EvErYtHiNg - as if she was personally affronted that Daenerys was so popular. And it was the same with Arya! She was constantly saying Sansa was the best character (and like, ok, a lot of actors probably say that about their characters, fine), but also going on about how 'smart' Sansa was and complaining that she wasn't as popular as other female characters (2/?) because she didn't 'act like a man'.

Thank you so much for this long ask! To keep things organised, I am roughly going to answer this in sections.

I agree with you. I did not pay much attention to any of the cast really, and I’m still not hugely bothered about them. GOT is done and I rarely get invested in cast members. It’s characters I’m interested in. But I remember randomly coming across bts footage of the Jon/Arya hug from season 1, and I just fell in love with those two actors in particular, and I happened to see an interview with Emilia and adored her too. And that’s when I happened to see more of this cast and understand what they were like. But with the final season, and seeing pretty much everyone’s reactions that ranged from forced awkward laughter to straight up saying it sucked, it became incredibly obvious when any single person reacted positively. Even former cast members were saying it sucked, and celebrities not even involved were dragging it, so Sophie’s words on this topic (which I will touch on in a second) were put under a microscope, and subsequently everything she had said before was too. Her hatred for Dany was definitely fed to her by D&D, but there was definitely a jealousy about how other characters and actors were more popular than her. But her comments about female characters in general were so toxic.

I was even annoyed for a hot minute with Maisie too, because of all the shit she and Sophie said about Daenerys while promoting S8 (calling her power-hungry and saying she was worse than Cersei). BUT THEN. I noticed exactly what you said in an earlier post about Maisie going along with WHATEVER Sophie said. And when I re-watched those interviews it was always SOPHIE saying those shitty things, and Maisie just agreeing. (3/?) I even saw the interview you mentioned where Maisie kept changing her answers to match Sophie's. They're friendship comes off as really uneven and toxic, tbh, cause it felt like Sophie was CONSTANTLY running roughshod over Maisie.

Yeah, Maisie’s attitude initially seems off as well, especially with regard to Daenerys. But as you said, she never says this sort of thing in solo interviews, or interviews with other actors. It’s such a shame that there are so few without Sophie, so we rarely get to see what she’s like on her own. It would be one thing I suppose if Maisie gave similar answers to Sophie without much prompting, but she always has one answer, then Sophie speaks, and she changes it based on what she says. That really clearly shows you she is amending her behaviour to fit in with Sophie, which is not good. It does feel so uneven and I’ve had friendships like that and it took a while for me to cut them out. Once I did I felt much better. We obviously don’t know the ins and outs of their relationship, but it does feel very similar.

Sophie's also made uncomfortable comments dealing with racism in the past, she claims to be an advocate for mental health but then behaves abominably towards her castmates (4/?) (making insensitive comments about Kit's drinking during an interview, saying shit about Daenerys when she knows how much that could affect Emilia, etc.), the way she said she "loved" Sansa's rape scene because of how twisted it was, all that in addition to how she defended the show's final season (with it's STRONG xenophobic, isolationist undertones) even though she didn't even watch the last 2-3 episodes (5/?) - how she seemed so smug and happy about the (tone-deaf) ending, even seemed to be celebrating it when it was brought up in interviews (talk about not being able to read the room - seriously, everybody else seemed to realize it, and kept their mouths shut after the required promo period) - her history of sicking her fans on people who disliked Sansa/said anything negative about her on social media even when they didn't @ her (6/?)

Her comments about race and mental health always made me uncomfortable too. I was sympathetic to her struggle with mental health, but then she invalidates everyone else’s struggles and it just made me dislike her even more. You can’t be an advocate for mental health and then say stuff like that about other people. Those two things do not go together. You could see when she said that stuff about Kit’s drinking that, though the audience laughed, everyone in the cast including Kit gave awkward smiles and giggles to cover how uncomfortable they were because they didn’t want to make a scene. And the way she talks about other characters is disrespectful. These characters mean a lot to the people who play them, and she does not react well when people give the same back to her. It reminds of John Boyega and his comments about Reylo and Ben Solo especially, knowing how much his castmates, Adam and Daisy in particular, love the character and how much he means to them, and he went ahead and said those things anyway, fuelling his fans to be cruel to other fans. It’s not as bad as Sophie perhaps, but it’s just poor form when these people are supposed to be professional. Sophie’s comments about Sansa’s rape scene came straight from D&D’s mouth, but she has to be at least a little self-aware about how that sounds and how gross it is, especially when she loves it because of how gross it was. You don’t see Emilia defending Drogo, do you?

Her reaction to the ending was so telling because it was the single positive opinion in a sea of negativity. Everyone else, including people no longer in the show and celebrities who were never involved, hated it and called it out to varying degrees (there was still contracts to fulfill) for how tone-deaf and nonsensical it was, and there was the table-read were everyone was devastated, but Sophie was grinning the entire time. She liked the show because her character won in the end. Sophie is not a writer, and it’s obvious when she praises the writing of this show (and criticises others which had far fewer problems than this). She did not care how nonsensical and crass the rest of the show was, as long as her character ended up on top, and then went out of her way to criticise people who hated it. Other actors have done the same, but on top of everything else it’s not a good look. And don’t even get me started on her behaviour on social media. It’s gross and not something we can blame on someone else.

after all that, everything about her just reeks of this 'woe-is-me I'm so oppressed white feminist' bs. It makes it impossible for me to like her now. Like, I think I'm only 1-2 years older than her, I don't come from nearly as much privilege as she does, and she has all the resources in the world to be educating herself and improving herself but...I don't see anything resembling that kind of growth in her. (7/7)

Yeah I can only agree. I’m five years younger than her and you would never catch me acting the way she does. She’s 24, she’s an adult, and obviously early fame and the producers affected her, but at some point we can’t keep absolving her of blame. She could be educating herself and alleviating her own ignorance, but it seems like she’s just doubling down. Maisie has had the same troubling influence from an earlier age, and she is younger, but she is not acting this way. I’m not hugely into following actors’ lives as I said, but when this was brought to my attention it rubbed me the wrong way. I am perfectly fine to ignore her as best I can, but I don’t have to like her. You don’t have to like celebrities if they’re not great people, and I don’t like her. And I’m glad the show is over so her castmates can go on to bigger and better things and leave that toxic environment the show created behind.

#anti got #anti d&d #neve has mail #anti sophie turner

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rhegar · 5 years

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Sansa and Arya Stark fed a man to his dogs, killed people and baked them into pies, but that’s all alright, because those people deserved it. Dany burned and crucified people, and that’s alright because they were slavers. Except... it’s not?

You know what the difference is? Why the writers want you to believe that Sansa and Arya are morally superior while Dany was somehow a piece of shit? Why Dany was made to lose everything and die by the hands of the only man left she trusts, while Arya survived with fireproof plot armor and Sansa insisted on keeping the north independent out of sheer xenophobia and got her wish, being rewarded with a queenship she no longer deserves?

Because Arya is the kind of “feminist” who says “most girls are idiots” and denounces being a lady, and Sansa’s brand of “feminism” is the one that gets to where she is by being nice to men, even while they abuse her, until she takes what they have, and then being thankful for the little she was given. Now, am I saying that’s wrong? No. Am I saying Sansa is anything less than a survivor? No. Am I belittling what she survived? No. But compare her “If it weren’t for Ramsay and Littlefinger I would still be a little bird” to Dany’s “The only thing that kept me standing is faith in myself.”

Sansa gave credit for where she is to the men who abused her, while Dany said “fuck that noise”. That’s why Sansa’s stans told Dany to “Get over it and stop complaining” when she mentioned all the hardships she went through.

Daenerys Targaryen never made herself palatable for men. She never bowed down and thanked Viserys, Drogo, the khals, the slavers for abusing her. She never gave them credit for where she is because they don’t deserve it. She was too strong, too big, too smart, too intimidating for these men (both her adversaries and the writers), so they tried to weaken her, dumb her down, shrink her into nothing, take away all that she has worked for. Their fragile masculinity and their peanut-sized dicks couldn’t bear to have a woman be that unapologetic about her power.

And even though their final sick, misogynistic vision is what was given the screentime, it is all too transparent. Even the people who never particularly loved Dany saw through it. The critics, the reviewers, the audience, we all saw through it. Those final three episodes have tainted the show forever with their legacy. That’s why HBO is in a panic, calling up actors to insult Daenerys and try to sell us that she was evil all along. But no one is buying it except the incels and the Sansa stans, and neither of them has any credibility.

Daenerys Targaryen ultimately won. She showed us what men are all about. She refused to go down without dragging the whole ship down with her. We all saw through the contrived moral superiority of the rest of the cast of this show who are all murderers in their own right, and hung on to our love for Daenerys for dear life.

And oh, does it hurt them.

#daenerys targaryen #sansa stark #arya stark #anti got #got

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cateyesinlove · 4 years

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A song of Wolves and Dragons

——————————————

Daenerys.” He exclaimed in an attempt to draw her attention while walking after her.

”Daenerys, please” he pleaded rushing to her, “ Daenerys just wait.” He said when he finally reached her at the entrance of their tent.

“Why? Do your lords have something else to add about everything they have complained about? Is there something else that I have not realized is my fault? Or does your lady mother have something else to argue with me?” She answered with irritation in her voice and the fire in her eyes, burning with great intensity.

“Dany I-“ he started but got interrupted

“NO!” She exclaimed with hurt in her eyes but masking it behind her stoic face, “You don’t get to let what happened moments ago occur and not say anything, to then come to OUR tents and call me Dany with the intention to make it all better, Robb” she looked at him straight in the eyes not letting him stare somewhere else. “It doesn’t work like that.”

“They are my men Dany, the lords... you have to understand” he spoke softly, trying to calm her but what a mistake he had made. “And you are their King! Does that not count? I am your queen, the woman you are to marry, do I not deserve respect from them,” She said softening her face, “From you.”

“Dany...” He replies almost as a whisper, he knew that the north would be hard to handle once they announced their betrothal but it had been nothing compared to what they imagined the lords to react, the situation was getting out of control and he knew it; he just didn’t know how to handle it.

”Look Robb I’m not trying to diminish you nor to say you have not contributed to where we are in this war but you asked for my help when you were at your weakest, so I came.” She voiced crossing her arms and standing firm, “ those out there are my people.” She added. “Fighting, alongside my children, my boys, out in the sky and thanks to them we are winning this war.” She sighs, “Is it so unimaginable for me to expect some respect from your army? If me being their Queen means nothing, then at least they could be thankful I have avoided the death of many northerners.” She turned around and started to walk towards the table and picked up a metal piece of a dragon with three heads, she traced her finger through the neck and closed her eyes, not knowing if what she wanted to say was the right thing to say at the moment but deep down she knew that just holding it would be worse than letting it go and putting the piece down, “ I got us through the twins, I got us through when not even your mother could and I did it without the need to sell Sansa and Arya’s future, is it too much to ask from your mother to at least not go against me so openly? What do you think the Lannister’s would say if they could see us fighting amongst us” She turns her head towards him waiting for an answer.

He looked at his hands and frowned, “We were not gonna sell them,” he started but got shut down very quickly.

“Then what were you doing?negotiating?” She turned again looking down at the table. “Sansa and Arya for the pass, What do you call that?” She asked but did not let him answer. “ A noble alliance? Because to me it sounds like you are just trading them, it happened to me Robb, my brother sold me for an army and ask how well that ended.” She finished turning around to confront him, no hesitation in her gaze. “He died and got no army, and me...”

“It’s not the same and you know it.” He added quickly.

“Look, we passed and without the need to once again take your sisters away from their home.” She started to get near him, “But it seems like none of your men are okay with that.”

”They just don't like how you handled the situation.” He said meeting her halfway.

“Why because of my children?” She said scoffing.

”They are nervous with them roaming around,” he said taking her hand and caressing it with his thumbs.

“And why would they be nervous,” she said, raising her eyebrows.

“They are dragons Dany,”

“They are my children!” She said raising her voice. Robb knew that as much as her dragons grown, to her they were still her children and she would not let anyone get a bad word about them. “I am NOT putting them in cages.” She pulls her hand away from his and pointed her finger and dig it in his chest, “especially when they have done nothing wrong! A dragon is not a slave and especially not a prisoner, they have done nothing but make sure our people stayed safe.”

“And I’m not saying that! I would never ask you to do this to your boys” he exclaimed taking her hand, “but every day they keep getting closer and closer to the camp, the men are restless and getting more and more concerned,” he tried to explain, “maybe they could rest a little farther from the camps.”

”You’re right, maybe we should be farther,” she said taking her hand out of his slowly.

”That’s not what I meant, dany,” he says defeated and exhales.

”If they don 't want my children here then they must really not want me here either,” she said and walked towards their bed grabbing her white lion cape fur and putting it on, “ these savages that I hear so much around this goddamn camp are my people and so are the unsullied and those beasts are my children, who I hold in my arms and cared for, I cradle them, feed them and loved them and now that they are returning their love, making sure our people are safe they turn their backs on them, and what for? Because is new to them? Because the north doesn't accept nothing that is not what they are used to, well let me tell you something Robb,” she walked until she was face to face with him, “I’m done with your lords, I’m done with their disrespect and distrust. I have done everything in my hands to show them I am a just leader and someone they can rely on but I’m done,” she sigh and starts walking towards the door letting some tears come out once her back is facing Robb, “So until you can act like the king you are and the man I fell in love, I would be moving my camps.”

“Daenerys, don't do this, isn't taking it too far?” He asked turning to face her even when she wouldn’t turn to him, “Please just let's talk.”

”Am I? Robb, those people out there are our people, my people If you also share the same views that your fancy lords have, and every day they are out there in the field. Alone.” She didn’t turn him not knowing if she was ready to face him about this, not feeling strong enough to show him this vulnerable side of her. Her insecurity about his love. “Because none of your men wouldn’t even risk a hair to help a Dothraki or an unsullied.” Finally, she turns around showing him her tears, “I’m not risking lives because of judgment that is unfair.”

Finally seeing her tears hit Robb, he did this, he hurt the woman he loves with everything he is, what kind of man would let anyone treat his wife like this? What kind of king is he if his lords can pass above him and treat his queen, their queen like this but this is changing, ”right now”, he thinks, ”starting in this moment he will fix it”. He can’t and won’t lose her, not to the Lannister, not to his mother and certainly not to the lords who refuse to see past their pride and recognize that without her they might nor be standing on this world today. “You are right,” he says walking quickly to her and taking her face in his hands and wiping the tears and making her look at him in the eye to see if she can perceive all the emotions he is feeling but mostly there is only one. Fear. Fear of losing her, “I have not been a worthy husband to be and a strong King,” he said caressing her cheeks and with a smile, “We will make it right,” he whispered, “I will make it right, starting with this,” he leaned and kissed her sweetly and carefully, “ I’m sorry Dany,” he whispered once he separated enough to see her, “I should have said something earlier, yes, they are lords but I’m their King and you are my future wife, their queen and they need to respect you.” He hugged her closing his eyes and bringing her closer to him. “I love you Dany and you are right, this can't keep going on.”

She closed her eyes and let some more tears come down, he loved her just as she loved him, she was safe, she knew that her unsullied and her Khalasar, even her sons would do anything to keep her safe but it was frightening have so numerous people hate her in a space she was deemed to be safe and finally here was her reassurance, she was loved. “ I love you too Robb,” she whispered and hugged him tightly.

”So no moving to the Dothraki camp, right?” he asked kissing the top of her hair. “because I have made a huge advance with Viserion, he will let me at least sit near him now, I can’t lose that progress,” he said with a grin that she didn’t need to see to know it was there.

she left out a small chuckle, “yes, we wouldn’t want that, especially with the wedding so close,” she added smiling and kissing his chest, “So how are we dealing with this?” She asked separating from the hug and standing on her tiptoes she put her arms around his neck and played with his hair.

“I don't know,” he answered honestly but he smiled and kissed her forehead, “but we do it together.”

”together.” She said with a smile and leaned to kiss him.

He grabbed her by the waist and bringing her closer to him, she relaxed in his arms and smiled in the middle of the kiss and she felt his hands caress her hips. They kissed not caring for the world outside, the war, not the stubborn lords, it was a moment for themselves. suddenly she felt his hands leave her and him separating himself from the kiss with a huge smile.

”You know I have always loved this,” he said touching the lion fur, “You look radiant in it,” with a playful smile he added, “especially when it’s just the fur,”

She smiled, “Just the fur?” She asked playing along with his game and walking towards the bed.

”What can I say, your grace,” He said looking at her from where he stood, “ you are stunning in everything or nothing.” He added and walk towards her.

”well thank you, your grace,” she said smiling and taking his hand, “Help me get ready?”

”Always,” he said kissing her like a wolf running in the open, free and she kissed him with the passion of the fire of a dragon.

—————————————————————————

@mega-ringsandthings-world

#daenerys stormborn #robb x dany #daenerys x robb #robberys #got #robb stark #daenerys targaryen x robb stark #robb stark and daenerys are the ultimate couple of westeros and yall can cry and hate me but is true #robb stark deserved better #daenerys targaryen #robb x daenerys #dany x robb

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onhersleeve · 5 years

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about sansa in 8x03

the amount of hate that sansa is getting (and that is being tagged on her tag when it shouldn’t, if you want use the anti tag) is ridiculous and too extreme, especially when she did not do anything wrong.

people hating her for ‘bitching’ and/or ‘complaining’ about daenerys, when she did none of the two, she simply stated the truth, that her and tyrion’s loyalties are different, his lays with the dragon queen, and hers does not. and while i understand missandei’s reaction and don’t hate or dislike her for it, it was completely unnecessary and overly aggressive, as sansa had not complained about daenerys or her aide to the north (my other issues about the statement shall be not mentioned). not once she pretended to be loyal to dany, in fact she always very honest to were her loyalty was and it is with her people and the north and its independency.

the other part were people were insulting for being ‘useless’, ‘weak’ and a ‘coward’, and that she could have at least learned how to fight while they prepared for the war.

sansa was everything but coward or useless. in fact she was aware that she could do nothing to help in the actual fight as she can’t fight, and having the lady of winterfell in the fighting ground would only take more people to defend her and not fight the dead, it would get in the way of the battle. and she wanted to be with her people, she dinned with them before the battle started (while most people were focused on the theon and sansa moment they seem to have overlooked that she was dining with the common people as her last thing to do before facing death), and she wanted to stay with arya, before arya told her to go and she realized that there was nothing she could do.

they also criticize her for not fighting the wights within the crypt as she had the dagger. they draw comparisons to what dany did, as she grabbed the sword. yes, dany was incredibly brave and heroic, but unlike most people are calling her, she was no warrior queen, because dany is no warrior and that is okay. she had no fight knowledge, the way she held the sword and used it, along with the seasons before, showcased that. her fighting was an instinct, it was survival kicking in, she was all alone in an open field, with nowhere to hide as the undead came after her, she had no other choice, but fight for her life and she did. bravely. but i truly believe if was in a place where she could find a place to hide, she would do so, because she is not a warrior, she was not trained in combat, and to hide is normal in those situations.

and this is what sansa did. she isn’t a warrior or a trained soldier. she never had to physically fight in her entire life. she was in a place where she was supposed to be safe, the horrors, the monsters, were behind that door. and then the dead rose. not only dead people, her kin. dead starks rose to kill her and those within the crypts. so she was afraid and she did what any other person would do (and all the other people did, funny how i didn’t see anyone hating varys, tyrion or missandei for doing the same thing she did) she ran.

but then she didn’t. you can see in her eyes the recognition that her end is eminent and remembering that she had the dagger. she shows it to tyrion, showing him her decision. sansa stark was going to fight. she knew she would die, but she was going to fight before her demise. tyrion sees that and kisses her hand, in a way of closure to their narrative and saying goodbye as he decides to follow her lead and go out to fight. and then they don’t have to, after as the night king is slayed.

and then there is the factor, why hasn’t sansa learned how to fight? arya practiced, lyanna learned, other girls did as well, as per asked by jon. the reason is simple, she didn’t need to. and more importantly she didn’t have time to. why you may ask?

as the battle of the bastards ended and jon was crowned king in the north, who had to worry about rallying the remaining north that had fought against her and jon to their side, so they could rebuild winterfell and unify the north? sansa did.

who had been named lady of winterfell and had the responsibility to look after her household and all of those who came for her protection? sansa did.

who was responsible in feeding, clothing and worrying about the two wars to come (against the dead and the living) way before jon left to dragonstone? sansa did.

who made sure every soldier was armed, protected by stronger armors and making sure they had leather within so they wouldn’t freeze during the war? sansa did.

who took care of a north, as their king went away for many moons, making sure their loyalties would remain with jon, even though they wanted to name her queen, while maneuvering petyr and cersei, making sure people would have a place to run to, and to have food for all the people in the north through the winter and making sure she would return the food if not used? sansa did.

after jon returned with new allies and armies, who was responsible in feeding them all? who was worried about the common folk and making sure the gates would be open until the last moment so people could be safe within winterfell walls. who did you see constantly moving around the castle working, preparing for the war that jon and dany would fight? sansa did.

so yeah, loves. i’m sorry sansa wasn’t able to learn how to yield a sword and how to fight, she was too busy running a kingdom and keeping it safe, fed and clothed so the fighters could fight. because without food they wouldn’t even be able to face the dead, as a starving army cannot fight.

sansa didn’t need to learn how to physically fight, as her fight was another, as she was fighting in another manner way before the battle started. she cannot fight battles, but she can make them happen and make sure those who can fight can do so.

sansa stark is not a coward, she is a brave leader who fights, in her own way, with her wits and heart, not hands.

#sansa stark #sansa stark defense squad #game of thrones #lys watches stuff #lys rants

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gascon-en-exil · 4 years

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Joining the Game Late: S7E7 “The Dragon and the Wolf”

Synopsis

Jaime and Bronn debate the logistics of fighting without cocks. As the meeting at the Dragonpit looms, Jon doesn’t understand urban population density and Cersei works out her kill order. Tyrion, Bronn, Brienne, and Podrick have their various reunions before Sandor sets up CleganeBowl and Dany flies in fifteen minutes late (not yet with Starbucks). Everyone there kind of hates each other, most of all Euron, but there’s a wight in a crate to make everyone pay attention. Euron wants to go hide out on his island, and Cersei wants something that Jon won’t give because he doesn’t understand the concept of lying. Dany and Tyrion rightfully let him have it because they are all fucked and know it, and Tyrion’s private conversation with Cersei goes badly but at least he comes out of it alive because something something pregnancy. Littlefinger teaches Sansa how to assume the worst, which comes back to bite him when the Stark siblings conspire to take care of him for good. Theon and Jon discuss Ned, leading to a last bit of foreshadowing and a victory for the cockless as Theon leaves to save his sister. Cersei fails a second time at having one of her brothers killed as Jaime leaves her. Sam’s back in Winterfell, and he and Bran share notes and discover that Jon is secretly a trueborn Targaryen at exactly the time that he’s on a boat having sex with his aunt. Arya and Sansa have an actual bonding moment, and Bran watches Eastwatch fall to the undead who, as mentioned, have an ice dragon now.

Commentary

Let it be said that, for me at least, this finale largely makes up for the stumbling of the past two episodes. Some of that is purely in hindsight, as is the case with the Winterfell plotline and the setup for Littlefinger’s death. While it’s still very obvious that the writers couldn’t think of anything else to do with him and the use of Bran’s flashback powers to “prove” that Littlefinger betrayed Ned is as silly as everything involving Bran is now, the summary exposure of all the conflict and death that have resulted from the man’s actions is satisfying to hear laid bare. His execution is also satisfying and pathetic, cutting short his disturbing attraction to Catelyn and her daughter with the dismissal it properly deserves. Not a great narrative execution prior to this moment with the show duping the audience along with the target, but no point in complaining about that twice.

Other stories still aren’t great in hindsight, namely the wight hunt which still ran purely on stupidity and action movie logic, but their resolution is still sound. There’s a certain irony to the gathering in the Dragonpit; background exposition reveals that it was the Targaryens chaining their dragons in there that led to them growing smaller and weaker, but putting some of the show’s most dynamic and engaging characters and also Jon Snow in there is a recipe for solid writing. Not CleganeBowl because who genuinely cared about that, but Cersei and Dany or Jon being an idiot and everyone having fun calling him an idiot or even the smaller reunions before the big meeting between characters who shared storylines in the middle seasons. This is the first time that Cersei and Tyrion have had scenes together since Season 4, and their private meeting especially is powerful and tense and only slightly mitigated when I wondered if every dialogue scene involving Cersei now is going to end with her referring to her pregnancy. It also comes up in the appropriately parallel scene at the end of the episode with Jaime, where (from what I can tell) she comes closer to having the Mountain kill him than she did with Tyrion which says all manner of interesting things about how she views betrayal. I am less sold on the followup on Theon’s end, save that there’s a punchline in there calling back to the episode’s first scene where Bronn and Jaime wonder what could motivate a man without a cock to fight. But never mind that - Jaime and Cersei are finally separated (consistently established only to be ruined at the last minute redemption arc my ass - the guy dies in, what, five episodes?), Theon’s off to be a hero, the Starks are all together as the White Walkers destroy the Wall and Cersei’s going to sit this one out, and Jon and Dany...well....

Obviously, the incest doesn’t bother me*. Notwithstanding my personal indifference, this is the same show that showed a twin brother and sister having sex in its first episode after all. I even like that Sam’s contribution to the reveal (that Bran didn’t know about because...?) is the real problem here: that Jon is a trueborn Targaryen and thus a threat to Daenerys’s right to claim the Iron Throne. Splicing this revelation with the sex scene between the two leads is delightfully twisted in a very GoT way, which goes a way toward making up for the actors’ lack of chemistry or the by-the-numbers development of their relationship. It does add certain uncomfortable layers to what’s going to become of them and Dany especially in the final season, but I’ll get there soon enough - although maybe not that soon if the episodes continue to be this long. My ultimate plan for this liveblog is to finish by the end of March, which should be manageable even if the episodes for Season 8 each take a little longer to work through than normal. Put it this way about these two though: I’m glad that their approximate equivalents in Fire Emblem: Three Houses were not sexually (or, arguably, romantically) involved prior to the scene where one of them kills the other before a throne, and that the game instead leans harder on the family angle even though ironically Dimitri and Edelgard are not biologically related like the GoT characters that partially influenced them.

*My theory for why some people seemed uncomfortable with this reveal when it happened is that Jon and Dany were developed as protagonists from the start of the show and their interactions this season like standard romantic setup. This would contrast against the Lannister twincest, which we’ve known about since the first episode and that involves two characters who are (mostly) on the villainous side of things.

#Game of Thrones #GoT

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hamliet · 5 years

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GOT 8.03 I Know Death

Well... I can’t lie. If the WW threat is really over, that was a wee bit of a letdown, but seriously WHAT A WAY TO GO. That was honestly one of the most brutal hours of television I’ve ever watched. I’m not surprised the true enemy is Cersei but. Sigh. Supposedly episodes 3-5 are like... one cohesive story according to the director with a beginning middle and end soooo I have questions?

Whatever. Let’s talk characters.

First of all, IS GHOST OKAY????

A moment of silence for Edd, Beric, LYANNA, and the nameless characters we still cared for. Double moments for Jorah and Theon, Amen. Lyanna did not deserve to die, but at least she took out a giant?

JORAH and THEON

The big deaths imo. If it wasn’t clear, they were always parallel characters. Their arcs both follow the same structure:

trust (Theon is like family, Jorah Dany’s most trusted/House Mormont)–>

betrayal (of the Starks for Theon for the sake of his blood family, of Dany for the sake of returning to his blood family for Jorah)–>

suffering (Reek and exile to Essos/for the Dany betrayal, greyscale)–>

redemption (saving Dany from the Dothraki, saving Sansa)–>

near-death experience (greyscale and losing Yara to Euron)–>

forgiveness (Dany welcoming Jorah, Lyanna Mormont wishing him luck; Sansa embracing Theon)–>

death saving someone they once betrayed. Jorah, saving Dany. Theon, saving Bran, the boy he lied about killing.

Not to mention they both have love stories that alas, are not to be, with Sansa for Theon (you can interpret the love however you wish) and with Dany for Jorah, though that one was unrequited romantically, it was still love.

Not to mention both of them completed “redemption(esque)” arcs, along with...

MELISANDRE

I’m not getting into this Azor Ahai stuff because the writing on that looks skeptical at best to me. Still, she was able to fulfill her desires--to save the world basically--and die in relative peace. I liked her moment of doubt in her faith before the trenches lit as well.

ARYA and BRAN

Arya is the person who, after all, has been bragging about knowing death and its many faces, who trained to become an agent of death. Her killing the NK is a way of her asserting herself as a part of the living, as a Stark, not as a faceless (wo)man. The fact that she did it protecting Bran further cements this. She is a Stark of Winterfell. She is not nor has she ever been no one.

TYRION and SANSA and MISSANDEI and GILLY

Missandei and Gilly may not have major roles, but they are parallels and if one is okay the other should be as well. Missandei’s line to Sansa was great, and I say that as a massive Sansa stan (she’s my favorite character). Dany sacrificed so much to save them all, and none of them would be alive without her.

I liked Sansa’s scenes with Tyrion as well. It was a good way to give closure to that relationship.

The scene in the crypts, though, was agonizing, but for me the true horror was long before the dead broke in, the scene when people outside were begging to be let in, and they couldn’t save them. They truly could not, and that was agonizing, but it was the right thing to do, and Sophie Turner did a great job showing the anguish on Sansa’s face. You can’t save everyone.

BRIENNE and JAIME

They saved each other, amen. And Pod is alive.

DANY and JON (and CERSEI )

Well, now the focus will likely shift back to politicking. Again, I’m not here for Mad Queen bullshit--or, er, well, there is indeed a Mad Queen: Cersei. Who didn’t appear for two whole episodes so I’m absolutely terrified.

Dany has lost Jorah, the one who has been with her since season 1, the closest thing she has to family since her husband and her baby died which is pretty traumatizing. Let’s break down how this season is challenging Dany: its methodically picking apart what she thinks she knows about herself and her family and her value. She assumed it was all on her to continue the honor and legacy of her family (the Iron Throne). Now, she has a relative still alive and will probably have another family member soon (more later). The Iron Throne isn’t hers according to the rules of succession. Everything Dany has believed about herself has been flipped now. She also just lost Viserion, who was like her child, her dragons are injured, and the Dothraki, her tie to her first husband and her dead child, the people who follow her like the free folk follow Jon, were massacred. Dany has lost a lot. I am expecting Dany to be in the lowest place we’ve ever seen her next episode. I’ve said before the Iron Throne is a coping mechanism; she’ll probably cling to it even more because she has nothing else... except Jon.

Theory time: I’m honestly guessing that Dany is pregnant, or will be in the next couple episodes to further extend the foiling with Cersei (it’s dumb AF writing if she isn’t, since that was simply foreshadowed too strongly not to happen), and I do think she’ll lose the other two dragons eventually to parallel losing her three “dragon children” with Cersei losing her three children. Does she want the Iron Throne, the childhood coping mechanism, the story Viserys used to feed her as a child to keep her going while assassins were trailing them, or does she want a family? (She wants the latter I think.) The choice will be to become Cersei or become like Sansa, to remain a child clinging to stories or to be an adult and choose her fate.

Which... again there’s inherent misogyny in that because a woman CAN have power and a family and that both Cersei and Dany are portrayed as “oh noes the danger!” is irritating, but w/e. They’re probably going to drag this “will she won’t she” out until the last couple episodes, but there’s no point to her ending up like Cersei. That being said, one thing I will say is that I reallllllly do appreciate that the women are getting the arcs.

One more thing on the deaths: I just knooow there will be people complaining about the lack of major-major deaths, but really, it’s fairly predictable that most of the MCs with arcs still need to finish said arcs. I am still betting that we’re going to have MC character deaths in the next three episodes. I do not, however, expect Bran, Sansa, Arya, Jon, or Dany to be among them. Really, I get annoyed when ppl complain about the lack of major deaths–anyone with a narrative background could have told you Catelyn, Robb, and Ned dying was inevitable because the story is about the children and specifically the cripples, the bastards, the broken things, rising up and creating a better world than the ones their fathers left for them (oh hey, Dany said that to Yara–whom I also think will survive thanks to Theon’s death). I also think Davos, Brienne, Grey Worm and Missandei, and Sam and Gilly (and Little Sam) should survive. All of these characters are characterized by loyalty and justness, just like Ned Stark was. However, unlike Ned? They’ve all been able to grow and learn to be wise with their loyalty. Game of Thrones isn’t as unpredictable as you might think; stories follow narrative structures, GOT just happens to excel at red herrings.

#theonsa #theon greyjoy #jorah mormont #got meta #game of thrones #got season 8 episode 3 #the battle of winterfell #lyanna mormont #melisandre #arya stark #night king #bran stark #sansa stark #tyrion lannister

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sheikah · 5 years

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My thoughts on Friki’s 8.01 leak

Ok so first and foremost I just want to say that this information is received second and even thirdhand. I do not speak Spanish and did not watch Friki’s video. As it was playing @adecila was kind enough to translate for @muttpeeta who was kind enough to chat with me. My bff @dracarysqueen was also feeding me some info (thanks my love!) and I read a somewhat broken English and at times unclear translation here. It gives you a gist of the video and I’m grateful to u/hang_the_dj2 for making it. Edit: Here is @adecila‘s leak translation so that you guys can draw your own conclusions without my salt about these revelations haha. Her translation is the undisputed best and I didn’t see it prior to writing this post, though my response is still the same!

One of the first things I read about the leak was the bit about Gendry/Arya. Essentially Gendry makes a weapon to Arya’s specifications. He calls her “m’lady” purposely to fluster her. There is “sexual tension” between Arya and Gendry. HELLO??? I can’t fucking wait. This is going to take over as like the whole world’s GoT OTP lol calling it now <3

Arya apparently also reunites with the Hound. My takeaway from that bit of the translation is that Sandor mentions something about how Arya didn’t go through with killing him, and I guess he’s grateful for that now? That part was a bit unclear to me in the translation I read.

Arya also reunites with Jon (!!!!!) where they share a tender hug, compare weapons with one another, and generally have a sweet and positive interaction. Arya is wary of telling Jon that she’s a Faceless Man, and Jon asks Arya to try and talk Sansa into coming around re: Dany. It is obvious that Sansa dislikes or distrusts Dany and Jon is troubled by this and asks for Arya’s help. I’ve heard from one person that Jon also asks Arya to talk to Dany herself. I’m really pleased by the prospect of this because I knew that Arya would support Jon no matter what, and that that support would extend to Dany since they’re obviously in love.

Speaking of, Friki did make note of the fact that Jonerys is obvious to everyone else: Davos, Tyrion, Varys, etc. Sansa can see it too and asks Jon point blank if he bent the knee out of love or if he did it to save the North. Apparently Jon is extremely taken aback that she would ask this question. We aren’t told more about this moment but I’m guessing Jon is offended that she would ever think he would do something as serious as swearing fealty to Dany simply because of his romantic feelings, and not with the best interests of his home and family at heart. I’ll be interested to see how that conversation ends.

Also, I realize we all already knew this (and have been knowing this literally forever) but these revelations all completely disprove political!Jon. Yeah, it was already disproven by the scripts and basically everything else about canon but this is just another nail in the coffin. Jon having apparently private conversations with both Sansa and Arya about his love for Dany pretty much solidifies that he isn’t secretly playing her in the interest of Stark supremacy or independence.

That independence, though, is something that is still important to the Northern lords. Lyanna Mormont is outspoken in her disapproval of Dany as queen. She notes that they chose Jon as king, not Dany. Again, we knew this was coming, but I’m stricken again by how silly this is. It’s literally the end of the world. Can this discussion not wait?

Anyway, the Northern lords are not a fan of Dany and it is obvious. Apparently Dany attempts to ingratiate herself to Sansa. Something along the lines of her telling Sansa the North is beautiful. I guess this isn’t successful given the bit about Jon talking to Arya about how much Sansa dislikes Dany.

The Northern lords also tell Jon and Dany soon after their arrival at Winterfell that the Night King has turned Viserion into a wight and is riding him. Dany is distraught by this information and encourages Jon to ride Rhaegal already, in episode 1, BEFORE he finds out about being a Targaryen. They do this to try and get an edge over the Night King.

Jon does ride Rhaegal while Dany rides Drogon, it’s a great time, and they have a pretty passionate makeout session afterward lol. Friki specifically said this was a good episode for Jonerys scenes. I obviously love this bit of info and think it’s hot and exactly what I want for them both. Who wouldn’t get turned on by riding a dragon with Dany???? (also, lol at how accurate @muttpeeta‘s fic is!!!!) My only wish is that the dragon riding happened after the reveal. I just think it would be a more significant acceptance of his identity for Jon to reach this milestone after discovering he’s a Targaryen. At the same time, I like this because it shows how much Dany loves and trusts him already. Before learning he’s a Targ, before learning he has a claim to the IT, she is already willing to share everything with Jon--even her “children.”

Also at Winterfell, Dany and Jorah break the news to Sam about the death of Randyll and Dickon. This is the part I really don’t like, so I apologize in advance for the rant here. So Dany shares this information and Sam is unbothered by the death of his father. Good. We expected that. He is, however, perturbed by the death of Dickon. While he thanks Dany for sharing the information with him, he is upset and apparently leaves to seek out Bran for more insight. Bran stresses that it isn’t important and that Jon needs to know the truth of his parentage. So Sam leaves Bran and finds Jon in the crypts.

The first thing Sam shares with Jon, though, has nothing to do with Jon or his parentage. Sam finds Jon to tell him that Dany killed Randyll and Dickon. Jon, understandably, isn’t really phased. There are more important things to worry about, and Jon points out that not only do they need Dany, Dany is the queen. This is the moment when Sam drops the bomb. He tells Jon the truth of his parentage. Jon is shocked and denies it. Sam pushes further and tells him that Dany doesn’t have to be the queen because Jon is the king.

This is the part that really, really bothers me. A lot. I knew there would be friction about Jon’s parentage. I knew there would be friction about Jon’s claim to the Iron Throne. What I didn’t expect was for the Tarly deaths to be brought up again (literally they brought these unimportant characters back in s7 just to kill them, just to cast doubt on Dany’s decision-making by her male advisers) in the same breath as Jon’s parentage reveal. These things are not of equal importance. The world is literally ending and we’re supposed to be worried about Dany’s judgment again? And to say she “killed” Randyll and Dickon is silly anyway. Let’s not forget: Dany didn’t break into Horn Hill with a dagger and kill Sam’s unsuspecting family in their sleep. Sam’s family betrayed Olenna Tyrell, sacked the Reach, wiped out the entirety of House Tyrell leaving no survivors at Highgarden, and allowed their liege Lady to be murdered in cold blood by Jaime Lannister. Dany retaliated on behalf of her slain allies and even offered mercy to the Tarlys if ony they’d swear allegiance to her instead. They refused, and died for their crimes. Why is this still being discussed? I genuinely don’t understand.

By comparison, the Umbers and Karstarks betrayed their liege and were killed, but that act was seen as so egregious that Sansa suggested (and was supported in this suggestion by many Northerners) that even the descendants of the traitors be rooted out of their homes in retaliation for treachery. So why is Dany’s righteous vengeance on traitors still an issue? Why?

The episode apparently ends with Sam telling Jon that he is the heir. Again, I understand that. Westeros is built on male-preference primogeniture. Jon’s claim could trump Dany’s (for multiple reasons) and Sam and others would see that and likely push Jon to see it. The natural extension of that argument would be to suggest that Jon and Dany marry and unite their claims. Instead, Sam is possibly (again, we just had one brief video and multiple translations and interpretations of this video. I’m not sure exactly what Sam said) encouraging Jon to press his claim as king because 1. he has a potentially better claim and 2. because Sam might not believe Dany is an ideal queen due to the Tarly execution after the loot train battle.

I just hate this. I find it massively OOC for Sam to use the huge moment of Jon’s parentage reveal to air his grievances about something Dany did. I find it massively OOC for Sam to be so concerned about Dickon in the first place, especially now. We have not been shown a positive Sam/Dickon relationship in canon, and Dickon was aware of Randyll’s abuse of Sam--he witnessed it firsthand--and did nothing to protect Sam or stand up to his father. On the contrary, Dickon loved and looked up to the brutal Randyll enough to willingly die at his side. This was not a man who was overly concerned about Sam, or vice versa. But now, suddenly, Sam loves his little brother enough to complain to Jon about Dickon’s death in a way that disparages Dany? Additionally, Sam is one of the few people at Winterfell who knows exactly how big of a threat the Night King and the White Walkers are, and we’re supposed to believe his main concern right now is what happened to Dickon? We’re also supposed to believe that Sam, Jon’s best friend, would think he could talk Jon into being king of the 7K, despite Jon’s multiple explicit statements about how much he abhors ruling?

So we’re going to have a delightful week between episodes 1 and 2 during which the antis compose dissertation-length dark!Dany meta like crazy. We have to suffer under what I consider to be a very poorly manufactured conflict that was written just for petty drama. I literally spent the day today at a conference on Women’s Leadership and one of the key topics discussed was how women with true power are seen as threatening and have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously. Glad to see Game of Thrones doing literally nothing to challenge that idea where Dany is concerned.

Moving on.

We also apparently learn that Theon saves Yara early on, early enough to be back at Winterfell in time for the Battle of Winterfell. I’m thrilled as a shameless Yara fangirl :)

In King’s Landing Cersei receives word of the Night King and wight!Viserion. She also sees that the Golden Company arrives but not with the force she expected. Apparently they were supposed to have elephants, and they don’t? She’s angry about this, but still sleeps with Euron as payment for delivering her army. I also read somewhere that back at Winterfell, Tyrion is aware that Cersei has commissioned the GC and that she plans to use them against the North instead of as aid against the Night King. This is interesting considering Friki’s other leak involving some treachery by Tyrion later in the season.

Overall, the episode sounds compelling at least and I’m excited about Gendrya, a Jon/Arya reunion, Jonerys getting horny from riding dragons together lol, and Yara living. But Sansa still being a constant voice of opposition for Jon, and the petty Jon/Dany/Sam conflict is really unsettling to me and I’ve very tired of hearing about Randyll and Dickon Tarly.

#got spoilers #friki leaks #ep1 spoilers

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stephtastrophe · 5 years

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I watched the season 8 finale of Game of Thrones aka the last ever episode last night and it was quite good, not quite how I expected the whole spectacle to end.

I did see a spoiler of the most important thing to happen aka who ended up on the throne on Facebook though after I had successfully scrolled past most without seeing them enough.

Dany after going super crazy with her fire breathing dragons destroying the entire city, wanted to do more crazy things and whatnot.

It was sad when Tyrion found Cersei and Jaime dead in each other’s arms, that was sad. Also it seems they could have survived if they were just like 10 feet away so there’s that ...

Tyrion was not on board with her shit and I don’t blame him, she really became what she claimed to detest, a dictator who went around killing people, she claimed to cleanse the world and make it new again and good. She said before she wanted to save innocents and yet went and killed an entire city for no real reason, which also left no one there to rule in King’s Landing and a load of building work to be done again ... didn’t really think that through tbh.

Of course, after Tyrion got locked up by her craziness, it was left up to Jon to do what had to be done.

He was actually pretty slick about him for him, she went in for a kiss and he kissed her back and then stabbed her with his sword. We just heard it then saw her drop to the ground. The out pops Drogon who upon seeing what has happened, uses his fire breath to melt the throne, as I said at the time, knowing it corrupted her and is what truly killed her. Even the dragon could see it ... or it could be as some memes claim and she was killed by something pointy and the chair had them in spades. But no, I think Drogon was actually smarter than that and knew what was up. It was her quest for the throne and absolute power which sent her mad as it did her father and corrupted her and her once beautiful ideals. Because of course, absolute powers causes absolute corruption.

Then Drogon lovingly picked her up and flew off with her to take her to lay her to rest somewhere I assume. That was pretty sweet of him to do tbh, bless. Even after all that he still cared even if he knew she did bad.

Then fast forward a few weeks later, Grey Worm apparently still hates Jon for killing Dany and wants something done about him and there’s a meeting with all of the heads of the houses or whatever to discuss who will take the Iron Throne.

Apparently, even being the rightful heir due to his lineage somehow Jon didn’t really even get a look in, like not even from his family. I dunno.

Tyrion proclaimed that people love a great story and who has a better story than Bran and therefore he should be the King ... the boy who never seemed interested but said “why do you think I’m here?” because obviously he knew it would happen as he saw it as he did everything. So he could’ve just cut it short with all the crazy and said “I’m the answer actually” when you think about it. As people pointed out, Jaime the Kingslayer nearly killed the future King 8 seasons ago lol.

I mean, it makes sense from that perspective I guess. Bran accepted as he knew it was his fate all along. That sneaky bastard.

But Sansa wasn’t having it and said The North would be separate like it once was so she could be Queen there basically. She just didn’t want to rule under her younger brother, so much for like having your families back.

King Bran et al had to discuss how they were going to bankroll and set up bringing the citadel back to life after it was so badly destroyed. Bronn was amusing as the keeper of the money.

Somehow Jon ended up back where he started at The Night’s Watch ... which I thought there was no longer any need for as weren’t they just meant to watch out for the White Walkers north of the wall? They’re all dead and gone so that would be there’s no need for that whole unit, I said it literally when watching, I was a little confused. I did think that was a bit sad that after he’d come all this way and been King of the North and was the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne that he fell back down to just being a soldier at The Night’s Watch when his watch was meant to be over. I expected him to have a much greater ending after all that, it was kind of a fall back down the Earth. It seems like it wasn’t deserved really. He should have been the King. It just didn’t do his character justice tbh.

Brienne filled in the history books as to what happened and very quickly changed pages and shut the book when surely the ink could not have been dry which many have pointed out. Even if she checked, I don’t buy it could have been dry that quickly. It takes longer than that for that kind of ink.

Arya did what all teens did and went travelling to find out what isn’t shown on their maps, probably America lol. I bet she’ll discover that or maybe France. I’d love to see Arya’s adventures in France, if it were somewhere real or based on somewhere like that.

Jon and The Night’s Watch either went on Watch or abandoned it as it’s no longer required ... not quite sure which they did.

I did love seeing Jon finally reunite with Ghost properly. It was so cute when he petted him, finally! If that was CGI it was good as it looked so real, although online it says it’s a combo of CGI and footage of real wolves. Ghost looked super real then.

Well, I can’t believe the show is over! I thought it would last a lot more seasons and apparently HBO wanted 10 seasons but I guess the writers wanna go do their Star Wars movies now ... so we got shafted from that point of view tbh.

It also would have been better if George RR Martin had finished the books 4 years ago when they were due so they would have finished the same, although I only have the first one which I didn’t finish but apparently he’s complained about the ending being not what he wanted. It did feel like this season was quite rushed though and it could have been better than it was, also characters completely changed overnight and that was strange. It shouldn’t have happened. I know people started a petition to remake the entire season and I don’t think they’d do that after all the money they just spent on it and the CGI, it could be good to appease the fans but I doubt it’d happen. It could’ve been done better but it is what it is I guess. It could have probably been even worse. So think of it like that.

I will miss this show as it was one of my favourite shows if not my favourite show while it aired and I was always excited for it when it came on! It won’t be the same any more now it’s over!

It was a wonderful show with an outstanding cast who all embodied their characters perfectly.

Kit Harington and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau <3

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rainhadaenerys · 5 years

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1/2 Honestly I also stan daenerys (she's one my favourite characters in anything ever) but to me it makes perfect sense that Sansa (and Arya) wouldn't like her right off the bat? Think about it, they don't know her, Sansa (and Jon) fought to reclaim the North from their enemies and keep it independent and then Dany shows up and has plans to be queen which would mean the North is not independent anymore and Jon agrees. Why would Sansa be just fine and dandy with that?

2/2 From her pov, she doesn’t know what made Jon believe in Dany so much, she wasn’t there, and she doesn’t know enough to go “heya yeah sure my ancestral family home that I fought so hard to reclaim is yours no probs!!!” without any sort of resentment. Like we know from that one trailer she DOES give up Winterfell to Dany, but Dany to her is a stranger claiming her home, it’s only reasonable she’ll be pissed off. It’s an understandable conflict, tho d&d may handle it badly bc they’re shit

First, to get it out of the way, Sansa’s ancestral home is still hers. Bending the knee is not the same as giving away your ancestral home. When the Starks bent the knee to the Targaryens and to Robert Baratheon, Winterfell was still theirs.

Now, I agree with you that it makes sense for Sansa and Arya to not like Dany right off the bat. I agree that of course there will be resentment over not being independent anymore. I just think that, from what we heard in cast interviews, this conflict will not be handled well.

Emilia said that, when Dany privately meets the Starks (which seems to be in episode 2), she realizes that they all hate her. Sophie and Maisie said that “everyone is a threat. We’re done trusting people. We’re done with being pushed over. We finally managed to scrape our family back together somewhat, minus Jon.” (notice the minus Jon, so apparently, they don’t trust him either) Sophie also said that Sansa goes behind some people’s backs, and that she risks tearing her family apart, that there’s a lot of fights with Jon, and that Sansa doesn’t like that she has to feed the dragons.

Now, it’s one thing for Sansa and Arya to distrust Dany and be wary and reserved. But from what we heard from the interviews, it seems like they’ll be openly hostile. It makes sense to me that Sansa would have private fights with Jon, but the rest of the comments, about how Dany realizes that everyone hates her, and how Sansa goes behind some people’s backs, well, it paints Sansa in a terrible light. Dany, from all that we heard right now, sits silently while the Northern Lords talk, and does her hardest for the Starks to like her (Emilia said this in one interview). I don’t expect Sansa and Arya to trust Dany, or even be friendly, but I do expect them to be polite, and what I’m fearing right now is that this won’t happen. They might not trust Dany, but she went there to risk her life to save their lives, the least she deserves from her hosts is some respect, is not being treated like shit. Some politeness. But apparently, Sansa and Arya will be hostile and Sansa will go behind some people’s backs.

And frankly, this is an insult on Sansa’s character. What about “courtesy is a lady’s armor”? Acting unpolite is actually dumb and politically dangerous. And having Sansa complain about feeding dragons is also very dumb. How else Sansa expects Dany’s army and dragons to protect them? By letting them starve? How else does she expect to defeat the Army of the Dead without the help of Dany’s dragons and army? It all makes no sense. (and this food drama also makes me fear that D&D will bring up the burnt food in the Loot Train battle to shit on Dany’s character and say that she’s “impulsive”. Which is something I find insulting. I even wrote a meta explaining why Dany burning food for seemingly no reason is out of character for both book Dany and show Dany).

So it’s not that I think it doesn’t make sense. I think this drama will be bad for both Dany’s character and for Sansa and Arya’s characters. It’s not that I dislike Sansa and Arya, but I dislike what the writing is doing with them (just like I disliked the Winterfell drama in season 7), and I think it makes their characters appear stupid and catty. It makes all the women look bad (Dany has also been dumbed down and made to look impulsive in the show). Especially considering that we know D&D’s history of writing catty women, while the men in the Wight Hunt all got along super well even though they had more reasons to hate each other. So to me, it looks like the men in the story will be the voice of reason, while the women are having a catty fight when they should be at least trying to be polite to each other. I hope I’m wrong, I hope it’s not as bad as it looks, but I don’t trust D&D’s writing.

#anti got #ask

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jackoshadows · 5 years

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Jon and Sansa had nothing in common as children in book one...

I constantly keep hearing from Sansa fans - on the Jon Snow Tag - about how Jon and Sansa had similar/parallel journeys and were pretty similarly bratty when they were children - pointing to Jonsa because they are so compatible you guys! - and that only Sansa gets unfairly criticized as opposed to Jon. Let’s tackle this:

Was Jon emo and bratty in the first few chapters in AGoT? No doubt. But as Maester Luwin aptly put it, bastards grow up faster - they have to deal with the harsh realities of life - unlike the popular, privileged daughter of the Warden of the North. Jon does look down on the other recruits of the NW as soon as he gets there, but Donal Noye very swiftly puts an end to that by explaining the circumstances to Jon and Jon LEARNS. Jon then goes about teaching Grenn and Pip and the others, protects Sam, talks to Aemon about taking in Sam etc. That’s the character growth that Jon shows in book one.

Meanwhile, Sansa continues to be bratty and selfish for pretty much the whole of the first book despite Ned’s constant pleas and warnings for the girls to not fight, that they were in a dangerous place (KL), that they had to be united as a family, that the Lannisters were bad people who had killed loyal Stark men. Sansa ignores all this and learns too late - after Ned loses his head, she is trapped in KL and the Lannisters start abusing her.

Sansa also goes against her family twice - she lies about the Trident incident, not supporting her own sister against Joffrey. And she tattles to Cersei all of Ned’s plans that was useful for Cersei to trap the girls - Sansa, Jeyne, Arya - in KL as opposed to on a ship bound for WF. Jon on the other hand wanted to leave the NW to fight for Ned, Robb and the rest of his family when he heard what happens. He feels deeply that he cannot save the people he loves:

Forgive me, Father. Robb, Arya, Bran... forgive me, I cannot help you. He has the truth of it. This is my place. "I am... yours, my lord. Your man. I swear it. I will not run again. - Jon, AGOT

That’s why it’s all the more significant when Jon does end up breaking his NW oaths for Arya at the end of the last book ADwD. Jon ends up choosing love over duty finally - like honorable Ned did.

The parallels about Jon and Sansa both wanting to leave WF also makes no sense. I mean, if you want to strip away all context, then yes, they were the two characters who wanted to leave WF in the beginning. But does not context matter in these so called parallels?

When Jon had his little tantrum with Benjen about leaving WF, it had just been made very clear to him what his status was among the siblings. Catelyn had made him sit at the lower tables while his siblings sat with their esteemed guests. Jon was bitter and angry. As we saw, Catelyn makes it very clear to Ned that Jon had to leave WF if Ned left for KL. Which was why Ned agrees to Jon going to the wall despite 14 being too young to make such a decision. Jon basically did not have a home anymore - the home he grew up in is not his - Catelyn made sure of that. Jon wanted to leave WF to make something of his life in a place - NW - where even a bastard could climb the ladder based on merit.

Sansa? She had a home. She had a loving family. A mother who doted on her. She was considered beautiful and admired for her skills unlike Arya. She wanted to leave WF to marry Joffrey and become Queen of the 7K.

So there’s a reason for why Sansa gets more criticism than Jon in the first book. Jon is an underdog trying to make something of his life as an outcast in Westeros. Sansa selfishly betrays her family twice - despite already having what Jon desired (home and family) - so that she could marry Joffrey and become queen. For reasons like this:

“Go Ahead, call me all the names you want," Sansa said airily. "You won't dare when I'm married to Joffrey. You'll have to bow and call me Your Grace." - AGOT

As show Sansa tells LF at the end of season 6 - “I came here every day when I was a girl. I prayed to be somewhere else. Back then I only thought about what I wanted, never about what I had. I was a stupid girl.”

Of course, then show Sansa negated that development by once again acting like her mother, never fully supporting Jon and passive aggressively undermining him in season 7 - but that’s D&D’s terrible writing that does not allow characters to grow for plot reasons.

Sansa gets criticized because she was a character created to have conflict among the Starks as per GRRM - not because she’s a girl.

When the series was originally conceived, it was only three volumes long and I did not know that several of the main characters were going to be stuck with being children for so much of it. The hardest chapters for me to write are the ones about Bran, just because he is the character most involved in magic, the youngest child and he is so seriously crippled--I have to write in that sense of powerlessness and it has always to convince. Sansa was the least sympathetic of the Starks in the first book; she has become more sympathetic, partly because she comes to accept responsibility for her part in her father's death. Jon Snow is the truest character--I like his sense of realism and the way he copes with his bastardy. - GRRM

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?tag=westeros-21&ie=UTF8&docId=49161

Jon and Sansa do not have much in common at all. Both in the books and the show. That’s why their stories have nothing to do with each other in the books, why they hardly ever think of each other and why their stories will most probably never intersect. I mean, Sansa spends an entire book impersonating a bastard in the Vale, and never once, not once thinks about the bastard brother she grew up with in WF! Is that not amazing?! In fact Sansa admits to forgetting about Jon till Myranda Royce brings up his name. That’s how unconnected Jon and Sansa are in the books.

On the show, we see them clash again and again. Sansa keeps important information about LF and the Vale from Jon and then berates him about fighting with less men. Jon, like Ned, tells Sansa that they have to trust each other and be united as a family. Sansa undermines Jon, disagrees with his policies, Jon never listens to Sansa and instead does what he thinks is right.

As in the books, Jon has the steady, unwavering support of Arya - who stands up for Jon and defends him when he is not there to defend himself. Remember this in the books?

Sansa looked at Arya. “What did you think of Prince Joff, sister? He’s very gallant, don’t you think?”

“Jon says he looks like a girl,” Arya said.

Sansa sighed as she stitched. “Poor Jon,” she said. “He gets jealous because he’s a bastard.”

“He’s our brother,” Arya said, much too loudly.

A variation of this is pretty much what we saw last season as Sansa complains about Jon and Arya defends him on the show:

Sansa: I warned Jon this would happen. That he couldn't leave the North and expect it to just sit and wait for him like Ghost.

Arya: He didn't. He trusted you to hold it for him

Their clash over Jon escalates so much that Sansa considers having Arya executed to depose Jon and Arya lets her know that she is keeping an eye on her.

LF: He was named King in the North. He can be unnamed.

Sansa: Even if I wanted to, Arya would never go along. She always loved Jon far more than she ever loved me, and she'd kill anyone who betrayed her family.

Jon and Sansa have a non-existent relationship in the books and an almost antagonistic relationship on the show. That’s why Jonsa is just an absolutely baffling syndrome. I don’t know of any actual Jon Snow fans shipping Jonsa. Jon-Dany, Jon-Arya, Jon-Sam, hell even Jon - Satin and Jon - Val are more believable positive relationships than Jonsa. I constantly hear from the Sansa fans about how much Jon loves Sansa. Like where? You guys want to see what actual love is? You will see it next season when Jon finally reunites with Arya.

#Jon Snow #Sansa Stark #Arya Stark #Jon and Arya are the best sibling duo around #Always there for each other #The Jon Sansa parallels make absolutely no sense to me #They are two very different characters with nothing in common

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roxannepolice · 5 years

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@nekomajo this is is sort of an answer to your reply about how th can people still believe in Re/sky. And after sleeping through the mind boggling bs I've watched, the essence of people's logic has become clear to me.

I think that this is something similar to what currently is going on in GoT fandom, following the horrible 8x04 episode which destroyed what illusions were left after 8x03 (spoilers ahead). The thing is, conclusion people were hoping for (infertile Dany suddenly gets a baby with resurrected Jon Snow, war with the Night's King has people realise the insignificance of political struggles, Dany is plain happy to finally have family again, Sansa finds comfort in platonic/equal relationships, Arya can fit her Titus Andronicus persona with Kate persona., etc.) was... not a very fitting conclusion to a show which gave us the Red Wedding and Ramsay Bolton but it was what one could expect after consequence free resurrections, turbo ravens, scuba zombies, Flash Gendry, Arya surviving a swim in a canal with open wound in middle ages, the ever present curling iron for the main characters and of course, High Septon Maynard. So the expected conclusion wasn't one of a very well written story, but it was a feel good conclusion of a bad writing which was at least consistent in its feel good bad writing. As such, the supposed subvertions of season 8 is basically worse writing trying to make a reality kick in bad writing.

And without comparing the misery that GoT's writing has been for a couple of season to space fantasy for ten year olds that's Star Wars' writing (or believability of the theories, I'm not comparing Re/sky to boat baby, just analysing the similarities in backlash), I think that many dudebros/sis, backed by some casuals who never cared much for Vader's redemption, are infuriated that after a feel good ANH remake that TFA was, which they criticised but still enjoyed (same as people were rolling their eyes at Jon Snow's supersperm but got along with it, since we should start with the logistics of a fire wight having an erection), on a surface level at least, they're getting what looks like subvertions for subvertions' sake. Now, the SW subvertions aren't a case of worse writing trying to deconstruct bad writing but they do, retrospectively, make some of the things in TFA make less sense than the surface reading allowed: Rey's faith in her parents, which some would say should be rewarded in Star Wars, that apparently we should have divined is denial; why didn't Luke dispose of all maps if he didn't want to be found; are midichlorians still canon if Rey can be superpowerful because; couldn't they have made Luke a badass for 2 hours if they still make him a consequence free badass for 15 minutes; why did Leia hug Rey rather than Chewie if they don't even know each other, etc., etc. So I think that TFA, along with Re/sky hype, created poorly written but feel good expectations that dudebrosis feel are getting subverted in the name of plot holes only different - a good subvertion makes more sense than the expectation, not as much.

So Re/sky looks like a return into that comfortable feel good story where people are simply good or bad (no one would care about implications of Luke leaving his daughter in a desert, the only complain about him in TLJ is that he wasn't kicking ass not contemplating killing his nephew) and the point is for da hero is to overthrow an empire. It's not a case of hoping we can go back to bad writing exactly, but it is the case of... hoping for poor but feel good writing marketing promises to get fulfilled?

#replies #nekomajo #cultural ramblings #got spoilers #anti reysky #tw: pregnancy #tw: infertility

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stardyng · 5 years

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Hi Arya stan from before here. I don’t hate Sansa I actually really like her character and started following her tag on tumblr and guess what it’s super annoying most of the time to try and appreciate her when there’s 1000+ blogs who can’t just like her without hating Arya and Dany. Season 7 had shit writing for all of the characters so I get being angry at Arya for the things she did then because some of it was dumb I get it. I just find it really annoying that Sansa stans have spent the 1/2

Have spent the last week or so trashing Arya and Dany because of a 10 second clip that nothing happened in. Why do you guys want her to come for Dany and Arya? Why do you want to watch a show where they make women fight because it’s fucking gross? I see no one comparing the male characters and preparing them to go against each other. I don’t think Sansa is an idiot. Dany is an important ally against the white walkers and I hope they come to appreciate each other and work together. I hope she 2/3

I hope she protects Arya and they actually get along like her parents would’ve wanted them to. The last thing I want to see is a season of Sansa passive aggressively berating everyone in the room just for the sake of her being a “bad ass” it’s stupid and doesn’t make any sense. Go watch the video where the writers discuss season 7 and you’ll see that Sansa was still being manipulated by Petyr and did want to take power from Jon. Arya had a right not to trust her in the beginning. 3/3

________

What’s so wrong about me having an opinion and expressing it? I can’t stand S7 Arya and Daenerys in the show, and I have every right to express why. If you don’t like that I do that, just block me or mute the anti arya stark and anti daenerys targaryen tags so none of that pops up in your efforts in finding someone who appreciates all three characters. I’m sure there are people who love Sansa that think really fondly of Arya and Daenerys. I’ve seen some of these people, and I even follow some of them. There’s two Daenerys stans on twitter that I absolutely love, and their analysis on her character (especially the book version of her) is outstanding. There’s a lot of Sansa stans as well who I see really appreciate the sisterhood between her and Arya, who have both of them as their favorite characters. All props to them. However, that’s not me. I don’t like these two characters (among many others) right now and I’m not going to pretend to like them, or filter my opinions because of some stranger on tumblr. If I like them later on, then that’s good, but we’ll get there when we get there. I’m here because I want to discuss the series in a candid manner, and how am I supposed to do that when whenever I talk about my negative feelings on a character, someone always complains on my blog about it. If you don’t want to see that negativity, block the tag, or me. Yes, I fully agree that Season 7 has been really bad for most characters. Not all though. Cersei stood out to me as being magnificent in the past season. She clearly surpassed her father in any way you could think of. Jaime I still really enjoy and find quite compelling. Even though I wasn’t satisfied with some elements in her story (aka. everything that has to do with Arya), I really enjoyed Sansa and her story-line last season as well. Plus, there was Theon, who’s character arc is turning out quite different from what I originally imagined. So there’s that. I didn’t like what was going on with pretty much everyone else, and I’ll elaborate on that if I wish to.

The thing is that Sansa stans have said nothing about Arya in relation to the new content that has been put out. Arya stans just want to insert themselves in an argument that they play absolutely no part in. This has nothing to do with Arya. Yes, I did make a post elaborating on my frustration of how much of an absolute monster she was (don’t kill the messager, maisie williams said that first) last season and how the show is literally going to ignore it, but when it comes to the actual trailer and any of my post about it, Arya wasn’t even really on my mind. Nor was she on any of my mutuals mind either. That being said, let’s talk about Daenerys for a moment. I criticize Daenerys because she’s a tyrant, because she’s an imperialist, because she has committed literal atrocities, because she has been neglectful of the former slaves in Essos, because she is pretty much slated to commit atrocities in Westoros as well. She is a threat that needs to be dealt with, in the same way that Cersei and the White Walkers are, and I don’t even know how Daenerys stans manage to still ignore it when all of Emilia Clarke’s interviews about this new season alludes to the fact that Daenerys is going to snap soon. Plus, for starters, when has Daenerys been a good ally to the North? She has been more of an inconvenience in the fight against the white walkers than everyone else combined. She gave them a literal dragon that destroyed the wall. Because of her actions and general incompetence, thousands of people are going to die. That’s not forgetting that without Daenerys in the equation, all the seven kingdoms could have worked together to deal with the threat, but now Cersei is going to stab everyone in the back. So like…Daenerys really needs to clean up her mess. Also, the idea that having two female characters be against each other is ‘‘fucking gross’‘ is just weird. Y’all didn’t say the same thing when Daenerys and Cersei were fighting for the throne. Y’all didn’t say the same thing with Lysa was trying to murder Sansa. Y’all didn’t say the same thing when any of the male characters have expressed distaste with each other. There was a literal war of FIVE kings, but it’s so terrible to suggest that two women who would have very valid reasons to not like each other, don’t like each other. The trailer hints at that, all the casual fans are talking about it and articles that were written months beforehand even suggested this being an actual thing. This is not something that Sansa stans have created out of thin air. It’s a legitimate plot point in the story, that you will just have to learn to accept one moment or the other because it’s going to be an actual thing. And did you just say that you don’t see people pining the male characters against each other? Cleganebowl? Did you forget about that? People have been hyping it up for years now. Daenerys has been a liability thus far, and has done absolutely nothing to earn the trust of anybody in the seven kingdoms, so I really don’t see what Sansa has to like or respect about her, especially considering that she risked her life in order to take her ancestral home back and have it be independent again.

Honestly, Sansa and Arya are probably going to get along just fine next season. I don’t mind that, because that’s what I wanted in the first place last season, but that didn’t happen. Now, the writers made me intensely dislike a character that I really enjoyed, and that makes me extremely sad when looking at how much they could have done with their relationship and Arya as a character. I don’t really care that much about Arya in the books, but there’s a lot more to her character, and I understand why people love her that much. I don’t share the feeling, but I understand. Arya in the show is an empty vacuum of murder and sexism, and I’m not going to pretend that I like it. I also don’t want Sansa to be passive aggressive towards everyone. I hope Jaime pledges his allegiance to her, I hope we get more moments between her and Brienne, I hope they have more conversations between Jon and Sansa, hope we get more of her with Bran as well. I hope that we get to see her dynamic with all kinds of characters. Just because I pointed out that she clearly doesn’t like Daenerys doesn’t mean I want her to dislike everyone. Also, just because I want the show to recognize that Arya has lost herself, doesn’t mean that I want Sansa to hate her. I want the problem to be addressed in the narrative, and fixed later on. Also, Sansa wasn’t really manipulated by Littlefinger. He was incapable of making her do one thing. He told her to keep Brienne close yet Sansa sent her away. He tried to increase the divide between her and Arya, and she spotted his slipup and went to Bran to verify all the information with him. On the other hand, Arya was running around spying everyone at Winterfell like a little rat, and tormenting Sansa for being feminine every step of the way. The only one he did manage to manipulate was Arya. Plus, Sansa was literally offered to take Jon’s spot (and if she did it, I would have cheered) but she refused the damn thing. Like, we seen the scene. Also, the fact that Sansa wanted power, but still pushed herself to the side to let Jon have and keep it just goes to show how much of a great and caring person she is. Sansa was an absolute queen this season and had not committed one wrong act and that’s the facts. So nope, Arya did not have any right to torment her, or to make her fear for her life seeing as Sansa did nothing wrong. I even made a post a while back elaborating on that, so if you want to read it, you can.

#anti arya stans #anti dany stans #game of thrones #got #sansa stark #sansa #anti daenerys targaryen #anti dany #dark dany #anti arya stark #game of thrones season 8 #got s8 #asks

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daeneryses · 5 years

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here’s what i think abt the episode

it wasnt as BAD as it seemed it would be but that doesnt mean it was good but my expectations were so fucking low that i could sort of enjoy it.

but well lets unpack that shit

it began alright, the funeral was emotional, not much to be done there i suppose. jon’s speech was good. nothing spectacular.

then the feast, which was also okay. but here begins one of my most serious concerns. what the fuck is up with sansa? in past episodes i could see her point, the north has been betrayed too much, it has bled too much, and southern rulers don’t quite get the north. but at the feast she was straight up dropping attitude towards dany, like damn girl aren’t u supposed to be a diplomatic figure in order to be a political mastermind? but well i’ll rant more about that later on. also dany legitimizing gendry was something we all saw coming i believe (even before the leaks i mean lmao) and it was a smart choice on her behalf really bc as tyrion pointed out gendry would never betray her, out of pure gratefulness if anything.

the feast lasted a lot lmao am i the only one who feels that way?

we started to see dany drifting from jon bc for some reason my tiny brain cannot comprehend people seem to want him as a king and she know he could be king if the truth gets out (WHICH DESERVES A WHOLE ASS POST TO RANT). she also sees tyrion laughing with jaime and brienne and i just felt so bad for her? like everyone was ignoring her she was clearly uncomfortable there ;( maybe it just hit too close home ahah. Anyway, I understand her becoming wary, and i understand why she doesn’t want anyone to know abt jon’s parentage. which, ofc, jon doesn’t give a flying fuck so we end up in a very bad place (which, again, i’ll talk more abt later on)

i was pretty nervous abt the gendrya breakup ahah but it really wasnt that bad, i didnt really see it as a breakup as much as a “c ya later” and im allowing myself to be hopeful for them. they’re both clearly very much in love but my boy’s a whole ass clown if he thought she’d say yes THAT quickly.

but im actually nervous about arya’s fate??? did she even say goodbye to sansa? bran? what the fuck was that??? she really plans to kill cersei and i just have a feeling in my HEART that she’s not gonna make it out alive and she won’t succeed either. why would u have her lecture jon abt the importance of family if she’s just going to clock out the next day. ALSO what the fuck was that line of her never returning to WF?????

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

if she dies im gonna become a full blown alcoholic. its even worse if she dies by the mountain or some stupid shit like that.

anyways

lets fast forward shall we

when they were at the war council room (idk the name im sorry) SANSA WAS STILL PROVOKING DANY. WHAT THE HELL? was it ever explained why she distrusts her? or are we just supposed to go with it? i loved that jon for once in his life stood up for her. she lost so much, she lost her khalasar, she lost most of her unsullied, she lost JORAH. and you don’t even want to send men to fight a much less scary enemy? gtfo here. i have always always always loved sansa, and i could see where she came from when she initially didn’t trust dany, but this? dany gave them everything and more, what do they want from her. im also emo bc i always thought dany and arya would get along :( and now im wearing a clown costume.

then the jon’s dumbass who’s a targaryen but inherited ned stark’s ability to disclose very sensible information at the WORST possible timing goes “hey, u know what will make them be at peace with dany ruling? knowing that i’m a secret targ and i can be king instead of her ahah :)x” and tells them. which, ofc, has many many consequences.

god they really are setting everything up for dany going nuts i hate this i hate this so much

everyone is plotting behind her back. that sneaky little treacherous rat varys is going to get dracarysed very soon and i will REJOICE.

and i truly fail to see why, all of a sudden, varys doesn’t want her on the throne. i cannot see what she has done wrong, and i mean this. if it’s all bc she burned down the tarlys i s2g.... if this was all done properly, if this was well written, if dany had truly started to show signs of madness, i would not be complaining. but the second she suggests using heavy force on KL to end the war once and for all, she is MAD!!!1111! aerys reborn!11!!! get the fuck outta here w that im fuming

but well im just rambling now. we all know that rhaegal survived a fight with his undead brother but died bc apparently NO ONE saw the massive fleet that was somehow hiding behind a rock. god i wish i was joking this sounds like bad fanfiction. also they killed missandei just for the lulz apparently and to give us what they believe will be a justified reason for dany going mad. thanks i hate it.

the way she said dracarys though ;___; she wants dany to obliterate the whole lot of them.

also the show really sad fuck jaime lannister huh.

like, it’s the same shit guys. amazing episode if you look at the technical aspects, the music was great as usual, the photography is impressive, it feels like you’re watching a blockbuster movie not a TV show and that definitely counts for something, but the story is simply not good anymore. they are crushing everything they’ve built up to this point character-wise. everyone’s acting so so so ooc it’s unbelievable, and sadly i can only see one way for the “story” they have begun to tell us. they are going to destroy the single most important character of the show, the most ICONIC character in the story of TV, one of the most beloved characters of our times, and turn her into a monster just so jon can save the day. if that ain’t trash writing, idk what is.

i also want to point out how great the cast is. it amazes me each episode. this time in particular emilia was amazing.

i guess that’s the sad part, that this show has it all to be the best of the best, but they decided to butcher the story, which cannot be saved, no matter how amazing your crew, cast, and production is.

#got rant

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