#flowey deserves better

[smoonship]

this bro is cooking oatmeal

#undertale #undertale art #undertale fanart #undertale papyrus #papyrus #art #fanart #digital art #krita #oatmeal #flowey #undertale flowey #flowey dreemurr #flowey deserves better #the great papyrus

[sandersgrey]

Its become glaringly obvious too that Toriel nor Asgore only ever mention Chara once, and it fucking annoys me.

Asgore will mention "the day after my son died," "I just want to see my son again," but not one single mention of the human child that died under their care until you spare him, and then it's "The human child that fell here long ago." Which one, old man?

Maybe he's compartmentalizing to be able to kill other human children or he blames Chara on some level, but fuck. Asriel/Flowey is the only one who mentions Chara by name, and the monsters at the castle are the only other ones that mention them at all, even though Alphys clearly knows about them from the tapes...

Chara so obviously colors their life too. Toriel leaving and trying to save any children that fell in the ruins as an act of penance, taking Chara's body with her and burying them where we first fell, literally making Chara's death soften our fall. Asgore ruling from a throne room covered in Chara's golden flowers, keeping Chara's fucking casket in his basement with the other children- implying he wasn't gonna bury them? I'm just. I get that they couldnt say Chara's name or itd fuck up the plot twist of Frisk, but not even "my children-" or "the first human child- my human child" at the same time he talked about Asriel? Nothing?

No wonder Flowey kills Asgore when he offers to become your family with Toriel. The fucking hypocrisy.

#alex wont shut up #undertale #chara dreemurr #the dreemurrs #asgore dreemurr #toriel dreemurr #flowey #asriel dreemurr #meta #justice for chara they deserve so much better #and that compared to Kris' and Asriel's room in deltarune... the way everyone treats them... #Asriel really is thr golden child huh. the one ghat is Openly missed.

[brewingcoffi]

I hope that in ONE AU.

Clover ends up surviving without his soul, pulling a Michael Afton so him and Flowey can besties. Giving this a semi-happy ending.

Please let me believe, Undertale Yellow is already out, and I’m already imagining 5 AU’s of this-

#🌻Eloise reflects #Undertale Au #Undertale yellow #clover #Flowey #Uty #Uty Clover #undertale yellow clover #please let me think #Clover DID deserve better #Flowey deserves a cowboy friend

[promise-keeper-papyrus]

What if we had the option to tell Toriel the truth?

#frisk #toriel #flowey #sans #undertale #pacifist route #toriel deserves a better bff

[abel-draws]

[ Delayed Birthday gift for @hiimtryingtounderfell <3 ]

#undertale #underfell #undertale animation #flowey #flowey animation #gif #flowey gif #don't you have anything better to do #he's such a sassy bastard #twitch #I guess ??? asfskf it's an outro #anyway tags done now it's time for rambling #i love her so fucking much #she deserves the world #i drew her blorbo to bring her extra joy #he's so fun to animate too??? such a simple bastard #<- says the CLOWN who forgot TWO detils in his simple as fuck design SAJLFKSALKJFSALF #but anyway #:D

[saffron-gold-stardust]

Let Sans Rest Day isn’t over yet so here have the spud man and his 7ft tall gf on a nice, sunny day at the park. (Myths You Forgot came on as I finished this and I am so full of feels now, man.)

If you’d like, you can support me on ko-fi!

#letsansrest #undertale #utdr #letsansrestday #sans #toriel #soriel #papyrus #flowey #frisk #post pacifist #true pacifist #i need to get better at toriel #she always deserves more love #saff art

[justaweirdo06]

#Hope you guys don't think I'm dead #Who was going to tell me it was the 8th anniversary #Undertale #flowey undertale #undertale chat box #chat box #god i love him #he deserved so much better #but I'll make angst of him anyway #angst #does this make any sense? probably not #undertale 8th anniversary #undertale anniversary #ill make art of this someday who knows #yes this is base off that zootopia scene #non gacha

[the-meme-monarch]

Can you explain Strange Someone Frisk’s motivations a bit more? I don’t really understand how they could go from being a nice supportive kid to tampering with things in DR

well frisk Does appear to be nice and nonviolent even without the SOUL’s control (sans saying “even when you ran away you did it with a smile” and seemingly feeling guilty for taking more than one piece of candy (the bowl tipping over and the narration saying “you felt like the scum of the earth”(unless that’s just chara trying to guilt them/you)) and we know from deltarune that while the SOUL controls what frisk and kris do, where they walk and what they say, it doesn’t control how they say things, like kris saying things sarcastically/confusedly/as a joke when it’s a choice they don’t particularly agree with (like the “perish” being said enthusiastically, or saying they’d go to the festival w ralsei or noelle and not sounding like the Actually Want To).

and similarly to kris ithink ss frisk feels. lost. without the soul. in the context of the au, frisk doesn’t remember anything before falling into mt ebott. idk it’d they even remember their life before that day. idk if they even had one. they maybe convinced themself that they were literally made for their role, and didn’t exist before then. maybe them causing problems through the secret bosses is them trying to get the SOUL’s attention, bc the SOUL’s influence is all they know, and they know the SOUL is here now.

they’re messed up in a similar fashion as jevil and spamton (and presumably the other secret bosses we have yet to meet) but where as they were Told by frisk about their roles as characters in a story, and jevil’s method of coping being that he’s “free”, and spamton’s is by trying to escape, frisk was made aware by their firsthand experience, and has turned to telling the secret bosses. and well, while i don’t know Why frisk would let this knowledge upon them when they’d been previously kindhearted, maybe it has to do w like. their life being entirely upended by the game ending and being shunted out of that universe as a result. maybe they feel cheated. maybe they feel that doing good isn’t worth it. maybe they feel like they can’t do good without the SOUL telling them to do so. maybe they don’t even realize or think that what they’re doing is causing harm, maybe they think that telling them What’s Really Up is a good thing. they did actually help spamton, for a time.

think that makes flowey’s plea for the player not to reset, to leave the game alone let frisk have their happy ending, kinda. ironic. not that resetting Would Have done them any favors either.

also if i was made fully aware that my life was little more than a means to tell a story i think I’d snap a little bit too. my life is a game maybe I am tired of being nice, maybe I do just want to go apeshit. maybe I’ll cause some problems on purpose

#also this reminded me. on the comic w ss frisk and flowey talking and frisk thinking they don’t deserve a happy ending anymore #frisk forgives him but not themself bc of their differing circumstances #frisk feels like now that they’re doing Bad Things after having don’t Good Things that weren’t their own choices that they just. arent good #they KNOW what it’s like to do good. they HAVE done good. now they arent #frisk hasn’t been told how trauma can effect poeple and that healing isn’t linear. sad ! /ref #flowey was able to undo the harm he did at a moments notice when he would save and reset. he can’t anymore and hes doing better now. he’s a #he’s acknowledged his wrongdoings and worked to fix them post game #i couldn’t really get into that bc i lost the canvas in A Cropping Accident #sorry I’m beginning to feel incoherent idk if any of what im saying or have said makes any sense #i have a commission to work on and i have been here typing for like half an hour!!! goodbye now #the monarch’s court

[mountainrapture]

OBSESSED with the idea of flowey ending up like frisk’s little chihuaha in the post pacifist ending. yes he’s slightly rabid yes he's small and full of rage yes he can and does bite no he will not hesitate but also frisk carries him around everywhere in a little purse and has toriel make a sweater for his pot that he wears during the winters and they finally get him that bike and he rides in the basket while frisk pedals. frisk insists he's perfectly lovely when in reality (which they are fully aware of) he's basically their very own personal attack pursedog. literally no one understands their dynamic but everyone respects and slightly fears it.

#i got a little sentimental writing this post #its important to me that someone loves flowey post pacifist. even if he can't reciprocate i want someone to love him on purpose. #and treat him like just another member of the family #and who better to do that than the only other one who knows what it's like? #he shouldnt be exempt from the love and care that everyone else is shown just because he’s no longer asriel in the way that he used to be #he shouldnt have to live up to the image that everyone else remembers to deserve their love and its important that people understand that #and love him anyway. because in spite of everything. DESPITE everything. its still him. #undertale #flowey the flower #flowey undertale #frisk undertale #frisk dreemurr #frisk #flowey

[metro-nix]

Haven’t drawn this plant in much too long, I got sloppy.

#mx creations #traditional art #fanart #Undertale #Undertale fanart #Flowey #Undertale Flowey #Flowey the Flower #hope I'll get a burst of inspiration sometime and draw him better he deserves it

[pikachu-deluxe]

i still haven't gotten over my poor little meow meow asriel undertale all these years later 😔

#he deserved better #even tho he does at least stop viewing the world like he did #before frisk came through the underground #but he's still stuck as a flower and insists that he's gone back to being flowey even tho it's clear that he very much didn't revert #to his old mindset #he'll never be the same asriel he was when he lived as a child but at least let him keep his form man...

[agentravensong]

thinking about how the extra area added on to a pacifist run of undertale, the true lab, is about alphys's past mistakes. how it ends with the story reaffirming that, despite the pain she's caused, the thing that matters is that she has now made the choice to do the right thing. she's still worthy of her friends' love.

thinking about how undertale doesn't expect the player to get a pacifist ending for the first time. how it's more likely than not that the player will kill toriel the first time they battle her, how lots of players don't initially figure out how to end undyne's fight without killing her, etc. what it expects — not even expects, really, but hopes — is that the player, if they care enough, will use their canonically acknowledged power over time to make up for those mistakes.

no matter how many neutral runs a player has done before committing to the pacifist run, the thing that matters to the characters, to the story, is that you've chosen, now, to do the right thing.

compared to alphys, the player honestly gets off lightly, in that you're the only one (other than flowey) who really remembers any harm you might have caused. and any direct guilting the game could have done about it is long past at this point. instead, as undertale often does, it makes its point via parallels: alphys caused harm, and she knows it. she has committed to being better. in doing so, she has unlocked for herself a better ending to her story. and she deserves it. she's forgiven.

those structural narrative parallels are all over undertale, if you know where to look. and that's one of the things that makes it so fuckin' good.

#undertale #alphys #true lab #this inspired by a mutual's alphys posting #and a discord convo i had a couple weeks back about ut's stance on ''punishing'' the player vs the monsters for their actions #and thoughts i've had generally post a certain fangame with a color in its name about just how well ut is structured as a narrative #everyone rightfully praises toby fox's character writing but stuff like this i think flies under the radar a bit by comparison #and it deserves to be appreciated #there's obvious Lore reasons why the true lab is only visited in a pacifist run (what's revealed about chara and flowey) #but this is the other half of it: the message of alphys's story hits hardest on a paci route post neutral runs #toby fox is a good writer more often than not

[squidpedia]

Do you think undertale yellow deserved a better neutral ending

Oh its funny you ask this now, i wanted to go back and draw on the id card in steamworks last night and decided I may as well go do the nuetral ending again after. I personally really like the neutral ending (though I do wish I had done it before the pacifist route lol but thats on me). Maybe its just that flowey has always been one of my favorites, so I see any content relating to him as an absolute win, but I didn’t have any personal gripes with the ending and enjoyed it. Others probably have their critiques though and thats totally fair and I wouldn’t mind listening to them.

Oh ps id card that I did the run for:

The first neutral run I did was streamed on discord while my friend and I joked about putting my previous justice oc Marz on the id card. We both forgot to take a photo though so it was lost and it kept eating at me so I needed to go back and make a new one

#undertale yellow #uty #utdr #pedia says stuff #pedias headcannon #pedias art #asks

[sukifoof]

Do you think Deltarune will give us a Dark World adventure with Asriel? I would love to see a chapter that gives us a deep dive into his DR character that he deserves, but most people seem to think he'll only show up for the ending (I should know, I did a poll back in April, even if the sample wasn't very big). Where do you stand on this?

And also how would you design a Dark World Azzy?

omg hi i think about deltarune asriel a lot... i cant say for sure when i think he'll show up but i'd like to think he might be a bit like hero from omori. something something he's got dess issues and he and noelle could be foils and hes constantly trying to keep everything calm and live up to what people want from him... i think at the very least we'll definitely find out more about him kind of like how flowey is built up to be this Terrible Creacher Who Only Wants Death and then we find out hes actually just extremely traumatized. i think it'll be similar in deltarune where he's built up as this Perfect Guy Who Can Do No Wrong and then you find out he's actually got a lot of issues and being in college made him go "oh god what do i. Do." because it seems like his role in town is Guy Who Keeps Everyone Together. i just think a lot about what we do know of him and how he and noelle might be Kind Of Similar.... i think i saw someone recently mention that he might come home early if he finds out about some emergency at home?? like with kris opening a fountain and toriel calling the police and then how the internet is down... would be kind of funny for him to rush home and be like WHATS GOING ON !!! and everythings fine.

AND AS FOR DARK WORLD STUFF!!! i really like the way that everyone has designs that correspond their Important Character Traits i dont know how to better explain it cuz im a little out of it rn BUT ANYWAY. here are my thoughts. imagine a guy desperately trying to keep it together but every time anything happens he jumps ten feet in the air and goes "anyway im really calm."

#deltarune #utdr #asriel #asriel dreemurr

[theforgottencrow]

Like quite a few people ima be making a KOSA post in case it actually happens and everything is removed.

My time on here has honestly been, the best. There have been so many times I was upset about something and came on here only to forget that sadness by seeing my friends and etc. Before this, I also thought that nobody would ever think my art was good enough or have the same interests as me, but I was wrong. so, so, Wrong.

@i-died-fr-teehee, You were my first friend on here, you’ve made me smile so many times and your art continues get better everytime I see it. Keep being silly.

@dustsansm1, I remember first seeing your stuff and thinking how awesome and funny you were with your rps and just in general. You make me laugh all the time and make me so happy in general whenever I see u in my likes or reply to my stuff.

@weirdest-worlds, you deserve all the love and kindness. You’re so kind and funny and never fail to make me smile and actually feel appreciated. Please never forget that you are loved and are worth WAY more than you think.

@systematic-err0r, We may have not known each other long but you made me giggle while talking to you during the reblog chain and it was a lovely experience that I’m glad to have had.

@floweytheflower55, Your funny and silly and make me laugh everytime I see your stuff, Your flowey art is beautiful and I have no doubt you’ll continue to get better.

@leartistickarma, Your art is SO beautiful and stunning. You’re funny and creative and I enjoyed talking with you and becoming your friend. I already know your gonna be a legendary artist on day and I can’t wait to see it.

@lazy-shapeshiofter, We may not know each other but you bring a smile to my face whenever I see your art and rambles. Your art is absolutely gorgeous and I honestly look up to you as an artist.

@chrai, You’ve been such a amazing support to me and I smile everytime I see you’ve liked my stuff because no matter what it is either it’s a stupid ramble or me trauma dumping. You’ve been there. Thank you.

@scuddle-bubble101, When I saw you follow me I literally felt my jaw drop. I never imagined I’d get such an amazing and talented artist who makes me smile to actually like my stuff. Thank you.

Thank you. All my moots, and everyone who’s liked my stuff and followed me. Without you all I’d still be considering myself a worthless nobody with mediocre skills. I’ve had the best time on here and have met some absolutely amazing people who made me feel appreciated. If KOSA really happens, I’ll never forget you all.

I hope KOSA doesn’t happen. I want to continue sharing my art and laughing with my friends. I want to meet new people and make more friends, I want to see the people I care about grow as people and artists and get to be right besides them while telling them “I told you so.” When they’ve become that talented and beautiful person I know they are.

Stop KOSA. And if we fail? Then we tried our best. I’ll never forget the experiences Ive made with you all, I truly won’t.

#end kosa

[haunted-80s-arcade-game]

An Inconclusive and Slightly Unhinged Analysis of the True Lab Entries from Undertale: And Why They May Be Significant to Deltarune.

There is very little I can add about the True Lab entries that hasn’t already been pointed out by the fandom many many times before, so this analysis is more of a re-telling of EVERYTHING rather than a suggestion of brand new theories, however… I will be throwing in a few details I noticed while extensively combing through each lab entry that may have been missed by other people (but again, I highly doubt it. I haven’t searched through every thread on reddit or tumblr etc. so if I’m repeating anything that others have already mentioned, then I apologise. I’m mostly just writing this to get all of my thoughts in order before I explode).

Nevertheless, I’m going to order this in chronological order based on the most well known facts/speculations, down to the least well known, and the speculations that I myself have been recently thinking about.

So what are the True Lab Entries?

Basically, the True Lab is only accessible when carrying out the True Pacifist Route and reaching (almost) the end of the game. After defeating Omega Flowey, you can travel back to Hotland and enter Alphys’s Lab like normal. This time, however, you will find a note on the ground reading:

Hey,

Thanks for your help back there. You guys… Your support really means a lot to me. But… as difficult as it is to say this… You guys alone can’t magically make my own problems go away. I want to be a better person. I don’t want to be afraid anymore. And for that to happen, I have to be able to face my own mistakes. I’m going to start doing that now.

I want to be clear. This isn’t anyone else’s problem but mine. But if you don’t ever hear from me again… If you want to know “the truth”. Enter the door to the north of this note. You all at least to deserve to know what I did.

Upon entering the door to the north of the note (the door with a bathroom sign on it), you find yourself in an elevator, which almost immediately breaks down when you try to ride it, and sends you plummeting down into what is known as the True Lab.

The True Lab is basically just the creepy basement where Alphys does all of her more shady experiments involving determination, or at least, the place where she kept all the monsters who’ve had determination injected into them after death. Now, however, all of those monsters have turned into sticky, melted “Amalgamates” and are being hidden away from the rest of the Underground and in particular, their families, who regularly send letters to Alphys asking where their family members are, only to be completely ghosted by her. I’m going to safely assume that everyone reading this knows all of this and therefore, I don’t need to continue on with this very long-winded explanation.

The most intriguing part about the True Lab are the Lab Entries, which are basically updates about experiments being logged as “entries” that can be read as the player wanders around the True Lab. They are numbered, but this is both painfully significant and also potentially not significant at all, so bear with me here. I’ll get back to this.

Who writes the Entries?

This is where we start to get into the meat of the True Lab, and also down the rabbit hole of speculation, so pretty much nothing beyond this point can be considered canon, apart from a few select details.

At first glance, it seems that all of the entries are written by Alphys, and indeed, a lot of them certainly are. Entry Number 11 is certainly proof of this:

[“now that mettaton’s made it big, he never talks to me anymore… except to ask when i’m going to finish his body. but i’m afraid if i finish his body, he won’t need me anymore… then we’ll never be friends ever again… not to mention, every time i try to work on it, i just get really sweaty…”]

Obviously, we know that Alphys canonically created Mettaton’s body, so we know– at the very least– that this entry was written by Alphys. Because of this, people have assumed that she also wrote entries 9-13, and 18-21 (and maybe entry 16 and the second version of entry 17… again, I will get back to this). This is because the grammar and the capitalisation of letters at the beginning of the sentences (or rather, lack thereof) is the same throughout all of them (entry 16 is tricky to determine, because there are no sentences. It simply reads “no No NO NO NO NO NO”). Not only that but, again, a few have very Alphys-specific details in them, such as her spending time at the dump.

Now… this is where it gets Very, Very Interesting (for those who haven’t heard this shit thousands of times before because this is NOT new information, I promise). The rest of the entries are written COMPLETELY differently. I don’t just mean grammar-wise either (but it is noticeable that everything is properly capitalised, which tipped people off into thinking that these weren’t written by Alphys). What I haven’t really seen analysed before is how much the content of the entries don’t quite match up with Alphys’s timeline. Not to mention the fact that there are some very specific wording choices that caught my notice.

Entry number 4 and 8 are the ones that mostly confirm the theory that these weren’t written by Alphys, at least in my mind, by the simple fact that they mention Toriel (both directly and indirectly). Entry number 4 explains that the writer found the VHS tapes and we can glean from their wording that they watched them (why would they say that Asgore shouldn’t watch them if they didn’t know what was on them?) which means they heard audio footage of Toriel.

In entry number 8, they mention how they found a flower that appeared “just before the queen left”

which means that they are aware of Toriel, and may have even interacted with her, if they were around before she left as well. I say all this because, unless Alphys is lying at the end of the Pacifist Route, she doesn’t recognise Toriel.

(Yes it’s a screenshot from Jack’s playthrough, did you think I was gonna go through the full game for this one scene?)

None of the monsters really do, except for Sans, because Toriel left long before any of them were even born, judging by the timeline (which I’ll get to in a sec). Not only does Alphys not know the queen, but she also absolutely did not have anything to do with the first flower, and therefore did not create Flowey.

Think about the timeline for a second. Toriel left fairly soon after the original human’s death and after Asriel’s death, when Asgore started to take the souls of other human children. We can assume that, unless human children were literally dropping down every other week, it has been YEARS between the first human who fell and Frisk falling down. It could be anywhere from a few decades to potentially even centuries (I think I saw a timeline suggesting it had been about a hundred years since Chara fell?). Now, I’m sure many monsters probably have ridiculously long lifespans– clearly Toriel and Asgore do, but I honestly don’t buy the idea that Alphys was there when Asriel died and the queen left. I honestly don’t think she had anything to do with any of the experiments in the True Lab beyond the creation of the Amalgamates.

And, because of this, the reason why I’m sure she didn’t create Flowey is because Flowey had to be created fairly soon after Asriel died. We know that he was, because entry number 8 specifically mentions that the first flower was taken from the outside world, just after the queen left (“hang on,” I hear you say. “The entry says the flower appeared just after the queen left, not that it was taken. It could have been taken way later!” buttercups live for two months, next question). Now, this is where it gets a little tricky, because I think there are still some people who don’t quite understand how Flowey was created (believe me, I was one of them). The reason he has Asriel’s soul inside of him is because the dust from Asriel’s soul stuck to the flower and mixed with the determination that was injected into it. In entry number 10, which was written by Alphys, it’s mentioned that the seeds of the flowers “stick to you, and won’t let go” which is a nod towards how the dust stuck to the flower. This is why Flowey had to have been made very soon after Asriel’s death, which Alphys just was not there for (and yes, I know that isn’t technically confirmed canon, but I really don’t think the timelines match up in this case). Overall, I think it’s safe to assume that Alphys didn’t create Flowey.

However, going back to entry 10, we do know she worked on flowers. In fact, I think this is more solid evidence that Alphys didn’t specifically create Flowey, because the original experiment was on one, original flower. Whereas Alphys seems to work on multiple of them: “whatever. they’re a hassle to deal with anyway.”

I also don’t think that Alphys’s experiments on the flowers led anywhere, because the only reason Flowey turned into Flowey in the first place was because he had Asriel’s soul embedded inside him, not because he was a flower. The entries about Alphys’s experiments in the flowers seem to align with this, because there’s nothing in them that suggests the flowers ever did anything after being injected with determination.

“But wait!” Yes… I know. What about entry number 18?

Well… I don't think Alphys wrote this one either.

I know the lack of capitalisation suggests that she did, but I think this is a red herring. Think about it, does this read like Alphys? It’s very abrupt, very factual. There’s no concerned ramblings or anything, it is simply a grim statement that the flower has gone. Also, why does it only mention the flower? We know that Alphys has worked on more than one flower before, so the fact that she hasn’t clarified, or said a flower is suspicious, to say the least. It sounds more as if the person who wrote this is the person who experimented on the original flower (or at least was present during that experiment), aka Flowey.

Lastly, none of the other entries that Alphys presumably wrote ever mentions this flower again. True, neither do any of the entries after this one, but to be fair… this is the last entry that (possibly) isn’t written by Alphys.

So who did write the other entries?

Well, you can theorise all you want on this aspect, but personally I do believe it has to be W.D. Gaster and naturally that’s the most accepted theory. Obviously, we know for a fact that he was the Royal Scientist before Alphys, so it stands to reason that these are the notes from his experiments. This is where I’d like to actually talk more about the contents of these entries, though, and put together more of an idea of exactly what Gaster was working on, how it relates back to Alphys’s own experiments, and one theory that I made up while reading the entries (though I haven’t checked to see if anyone else has pointed this out before… perhaps I should have researched this more instead of just launching into my own ramblings).

First, Gaster specifically researched humans and their souls as part of his experimentation, including experimenting on the souls of the humans that fell into the underground. Again, this is why I don’t think Alphys had a hand in these experiments because– unless she’s still hiding a lot of things– she never mentions that her knowledge of humans really goes anywhere beyond what she’s seen in anime, let alone personal experience with the souls of the fallen humans.

This isn’t what interested me, though. The interesting thing, in my opinion, is where the experiments of Gaster and Alphys cross over each other: the monster souls that were injected with determination, an experiment which they both worked on. Here me out, but.. I don’t think these are the same monsters. I think Gaster experimented on dead monsters and their souls and the results were just as inconclusive and fatal as when Alphys tried to remake the experiment. However, I think the outcomes might have been slightly different.

I think Gaster specifically created the so-called Gaster Followers (and Goner kid). I think these are the monsters that he experimented on, and something went wrong, and now they don’t even exist anymore.

I’ll get more into my reasonings why in a sec, but I wanna go back to the timeline again. If Gaster experimented on Flowey around the same time as he experimented on the monsters, then these can’t be the same monsters that make up Alphys’s amalgamates. We’ve already ascertained that there could be a decades long gap between Gaster’s experiments and Alphys’s experiments, so how would Alphys still be getting regular, frantic letters from the same families of whom Gaster experimented on if their family members have been gone for decades? I’m not saying the families would have given up entirely (if they’re even still alive by this point) but the letters would certainly be fewer and farther between, surely. The letters Alphys is receiving are from families who have only just recently lost their family members, which doesn’t match up with the timeline if these are supposedly the same monsters from Gaster’s original experiments.

So, why do I think the grey characters are the original monsters that Gaster experimented on? Well, I’ll start with the most obvious connection first and talk about how Gaster specifically uses the word “goner” to describe the monsters he had been working on, which I think?? may have been the reason the fandom nicknamed the grey monster kid Goner Kid in the first place, but I could be wrong on that. I haven’t kept up with fanlore for a while. I think a lot of people assumed that Goner Kid was more of just a victim of timelines being reset over and over again, but I think it’s plausible that he could have been one of the monsters that Gaster experimented on before this happened, along with the Gaster Followers.

I can’t really back up this claim with evidence from the grey NPCs dialogue, except that they have the most information about Gaster, which would make sense if they actually interacted with him at some point or with his lab. I just think it’s never really talked about why these characters exist in the first place. Why have they been erased from existence when other monsters haven’t and why are they so connected to Gaster? If the experiment that Gaster was working on with the monster souls happened around the same time as the experiment that shattered him across time and space, it would make sense if the monsters had gotten caught up in this, along with everyone else in the lab at the time (Flowey perhaps? Judging by entry number 18, Flowey was still there when Gaster “fell into his creation and shattered” if we conclude that entry 17 is the moment that this experiment went wrong and, let’s be honest… There must be a reason that Flowey is able to control timelines. Almost like a side effect of something idk…). Unlike with Alphys’s experiments, we never actually see the outcome of Gaster’s. His entries talk about the monsters waking up and walking around, before we get entry 16 and 17 which cuts off his experiments for good before we’re able to find out if the results were the same as Alphys’s. Perhaps they would have been, had Gaster’s time fuckery experiment not got in the way and potentially wiped out both him and the monsters entirely. As a result, we get these grey NPCs who don’t look melted and fucked up like the amalgamates, but their existences have been destroyed.

Which brings me onto another point of interest. What is the timeline of the entries? And do Alphys’s entries even exist in the same timeline as Gaster’s?

My main reasoning for this is the fact that there are two entry 17s. One of which was definitely written by Gaster because… well, it has to be because I think if Wing Dings McGee wasn’t the guy who wrote entry 17 then the fandom will immediately lay down on the floor and die. The other, however, was written by Alphys and talks about the monsters she experimented on melting together:

monsters’ physical forms can’t handle determination like humans’ can. with too much determination, our bodies begin to break down. everyone’s melted together…

Now, yes… I know this entry doesn’t exist in the game and I know it’s technically a deleted entry that can’t be treated as canon. However, it does still exist in the game files. People can access it, and by this point, I think it’s common knowledge that Toby Fox does not just leave things behind on accident. Everything that can be accessed by the players is put there for a reason (unless we go with my other theory that Toby is a master of chaos who just likes to amuse himself, which… shouldn’t be ruled out tbh). How can there be two entry 17s and how come they overlap each other without ever mentioning the other. How can Gaster go on a one-man trek into a fucking black hole while Alphys is dealing with melted dogs at the same time? These entries did not happen together, and I definitely don’t think entries 9-13 happened before entries 14-16. I also think entry 4 is actually the first entry, because it mentions Gaster “researching humans to see if I can find any info about their souls” but the previous entries already talk about the “persistence” of human souls.

Also, I briefly mentioned how the voice of entry 16 couldn’t be determined, but what I find interesting is that it… technically has both Alphys and Gaster’s voice. I don’t know for sure, because this could absolutely just be me reaching into an abyss right now, but Toby Fox’s attention to detail has driven me completely insane so fuck it… the entry specifically reads “no No NO NO NO NO NO” in which the first no isn’t capitalised and yet the second one is.

It feels like their timelines are crossing, but never fully meeting, if that makes sense, and entry 16 seems to be the start of everything going wrong. It’s the last entry before (Gaster’s) entry 17 and after that we get the mysterious “the flower’s gone” entry which you know what? Hot take, but this entry has even more mystery surrounding it than entry 17 because WHO WROTE THIS ENTRY?? Gaster didn’t; by this point he’s already yeeted himself off into space, and Alphys didn’t because I already said that this isn’t the flower she was working on (and hey… before anyone says “ummm but she literally knows Flowey when Papyrus mentioned him, she freaked out about it”. Okay smartass just because she didn’t work on Flowey doesn’t mean she doesn’t know about him, Gaster could have kept notes lying around… give me a break I’m tired). Point is, I don’t think either of them wrote this entry.

And yeah okay I am about to bring up that old ass theory that Sans may have a connection to the True Lab Entries because he’s the only other character who doesn’t capitalise his letters (curse you MatPat for being a defining figure in my childhood) but like… guys. Remember I said that Gaster’s failed experiment may have had side effects on everyone in the lab, including causing Flowey to become aware of the timelines?? Yeah, how do we know that didn’t happen to Sans too? That experiment fucked everyone up, and Sans sure as hell knows everything that goes on in Undertale. There’s no way he isn’t connected to Gaster in some way or another, like there’s no argument about that atp we’ve been over this time and time again already. 

(oh and is now the time to mention that Gaster’s entries were the ones to mention the blueprints he used to begin his experiments on soul power, which means those blueprints predated Gaster’s experiments and also there are blueprints in the shed beside Sans and Papyrus’s house? I know the common theory was that Sans and Papyrus came after Gaster, but like… what if they didn’t? And I don’t mean that they were there at the same time, because I know about the “Gaster is Sans and Papyrus’s father” theory, but I mean like… what if Sans actually predates Gaster? I know it sounds really tinfoil hat-esque but we honestly can’t rule anything out by this point).

Someone wrote entry 18 and I don’t think it was Alphys or Gaster.

Okay cool, so what does this have to do with Deltarune?

Let me answer that with a different question:

What if Deltarune is the creation that Gaster fell into?

There’s plenty of theories out there about Gaster being connected to Deltarune, possibly even more so than he is to Undertale, but like… what if that’s because he literally created the whole universe? He fell into this parallel universe that he wasn’t supposed to enter and it caused him to shatter, throwing off timeline hopping side effects that may have caught both Sans and Flowey. I mean, Sans does show up in Deltarune, and it’s odd that he’s the only character there that clearly hasn’t been established as a long-time resident. He doesn’t really know anyone there, he’s asserted his store into the street by rubbing out Grillby’s name and he winks at the player when he says he doesn’t know you. He’s like… the only character there who definitely still remembers Undertale (and like I don’t think we talk enough about the fact that Papyrus just straight up isn’t there. Like, yeah we assume he’s locked away in his house and that’s his parallel version to his Undertale self– a shut-in introvert, but the “distant trousle of bones” line might suggest that he actually just isn’t there at all. How distant is distant, Toby?).

Like, it’s obvious by this point that Gaster has some major control over the Deltaverse, and that entry 17 has a lot of parallels to the creation of dark worlds, but we don’t really ask how that parallel world existed in the first place. We know that parallel timelines exist, but Flowey said nothing about parallel worlds. Flowey doesn’t even seem to know about parallel worlds because if he did, I’m sure he wouldn’t have gotten bored so quickly and turned into a homicidal maniac if he had whole other WORLDS to explore. How did this world suddenly come into existence if not a creation by the one and only W.D. Gaster?

And while we’re on the subject of funky little guys who haunt the Deltarune narrative, it’s funny how Dess has disappeared from the world, rather than explicitly died. There’s already a theory floating around that Dess is somehow connected to Gaster in the same way that Spampton and Jevil may be but again her circumstances feel… different somehow. Not only that but unlike Spamton and Jevil, Dess is potentially present in Undertale if we take the Undertale alarm clock dialogues from 2017 as anything to go by, wherein Sans mentions “that antlered girl and her big sis” (it may also be notable that it’s Sans who seems to know Dess and Noelle but… I’m too tired to go much further on this theory right now).

So, I think what I’m saying is, Dess is almost definitely incredibly significant, and is potentially linked to Gaster in more ways than we first thought, although again… we probably all did think this and I’m just late to the party (if you can believe it, I’ve been in the Undertale fandom since the game came out, but I never frequented Reddit or Tumblr at the height of the fandom so… I’m definitely repeating a lot of old stuff here).

Basically, this whole analysis is just a recap of everything we know about the Lab Entries, while also potentially throwing out a few tidbits that may interest Deltarune theorists far better than I could ever be.

Also the song Don’t Forget at the end of chapter 1? That’s 100% Dess and I take no other suggestions on that. “When the light is running low and the shadows start to grow” Hey that sounds fucking familiar *said with the most deranged smile on my face*

#undertale #undertale theory #undertale thoughts #undertale meta #undertale meta analysis #deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune meta #wd gaster #dess holiday #sans #sans undertale #alphys