#himself lmao AND IF HE HATED HIMSELF FOR THIS THEN WHY WOULD THE DUFFERS SAY THEMSELVES THAT WILL WANTS

[bylertruther]

me saying will does not hate himself for being gay =/= me saying will is somehow magically not affected by homophobia or the abuse that he's endured his entire life because of it. nor is it me saying that he has never once had doubts or negative feelings/thoughts about his sexuality and what it's made of (and will make of) his life.

intrusive thoughts are normal. no marginalized person can go through life without ever experiencing them or any of the other things that come with being discriminated against. it's impossible, unless you live in a bubble in the middle of nowhere untouched by society.

will isn't a super confident character. we've seen that multiple times and it is literally a plot point more than once lol. i'd be shocked if there are people who have been in similar positions that haven't ever felt weird, different, or down in the dumps for how they're treated for things they can't control. we've watched will suffer with being different on-screen. i know that he's felt bad for being a freak that gets babied by everyone.

i still don't think that that is indicative of internalized homophobia.

internalized homophobia, as in self-hatred over being gay, as in actively believing the negative stereotypes about yourself and thinking that there is something wrong with you because of your sexuality.

not internalized homophobia, as in "wow, being gay is hard" or "wow, this aspect of myself means i have to be careful around other people" or "wow, being this way is making my upside down-related alienation even worse". those are normal things to experience and go through. he's some poor nerd in the middle of nowhere, midwest, usa, in the eighties. nowhere did i ever say he wouldn't feel those things.

but hating himself for being gay? actively hating himself? as is suggested by my post, where i state that multiple times? i just don't think so. i explain myself multiple times, but i don't think his actions suggest hatred. he wouldn't lean into it if he hated it.

i never said will was the happiest, most confident guy in the entire world and that he's 100% self-assured in his sexuality and never experiences anything negative because of it. i just said that i find the canonical evidence for self-hatred over his sexuality, aka internalized homophobia, to be lacking.

#sorry but...... every weird kid dyke or not experiences tht alienating I'm Different feeling. i'm talking abt people who say that will #byers believes the homophobic rhetoric and thinks he's disgusting for being gay and hates himself for it and wants to be different. #i'm not talking about the normal experiences of every gay person ever. i'm talking about internalized homophobia. and how will would not #make artwork for his crush where he's got a heart on him + confess his feelings to him + claim alan turing to be his hero + never change #if he hated being gay and hated himself for it. will is a sad kid sometimes. he tells us himself when he says he sometimes feels like a #mistake. but he said it himself: SOMETIMES. we All get negative thoughts and have to carry what was done to us and think before #we tell someone we're gay. that is very different from self-hatred. will didn't look troubled in lenora. i highly doubt he was hating #himself lmao AND IF HE HATED HIMSELF FOR THIS THEN WHY WOULD THE DUFFERS SAY THEMSELVES THAT WILL WANTS #TO GET THIS OFF OF HIS CHEST AND MAKE HIMSELF UNDERSTOOD. WHY WOULD HE WANT TO REVEAL AND SEEK UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE IF THIS IS SOME #THING HE HATES. WE'VE SEEN HIM HIDE THINGS AND FEEL ASHAMED OR EMBARRASSED BEFORE. HE HAS NOT BEHAVED #THAT WAY WITH HIS GAYNESS. SO WHERE IS THE SELF-HATRED. #caps for emphasis not because i'm yelling btw. #but anyway! #mine

[alwaysthequietones]

i haven't watched dawson's creek but ever since writers made that tweet i've become more convinced that some of these parallels are actually worth looking into

i've seen people say pacey and steve are v similar and i have seen all the parallels regarding stancy and it does look like there's some actual connections

again i haven't watched the show, so i'll ask you for your (unbiased please) opinion; looking at the whole thing is there any way pacey and joey have some parallels with jancy as well? and when it comes to all the stancy parallels do you think writers making that tweet recently possibly alludes to them continuing with jacey/stancy agenda and actually giving stancy their endgame?

I mean, it is hard to say. These parallels might be completely a moot point and not have any correlation with what the Duffer brothers are doing. So I might be making these posts just for shits and giggles. lmao But we do know that the Duffer brothers were "obsessed" with DC. And then that tweet of the writers room with the Dawson/Pacey picture...Hmmm

Because the context of the love triangle in DC is completely different than the one in ST. There are a few little things here and there that could apply to j*ncy but when you look at the characters individually and the couple dynamics and their overall arc (individually and together) and growth, I feel fairly confident in saying Pacey=Steve, Joey=Nancy and Dawson=Jonathan. If I had to make a comparison, bc again a very different show than ST. Even hearing the showrunners commentary on why they ended up choosing Pacey over Dawson to end up with Joey in the end, is very stancy coded somehow? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqTsKGxFzo)

Because the showrunner, from the beginning, had planned for her to end up with Dawson (Why? Dawson is universally hated.) But then things changed. Partly bc Joshua Jackson (Pacey) told them to reconsider, basically saying, look back on the journey, respect the journey, the only way is for it to be P/J. Pacey is also a very romantically centered character and the showrunners said that his arc had to be romantically fulfilled for him to have a satisfying ending. But he's always been in love with Joey and him ending up with someone that isn't her, would feel false. The showrunners also said that even though they had planned her and Dawson since the start, they actually couldn't envision them living day-to-day regular life together somehow by the time they were coming up to the series finale. + "P/j has the chemistry" "Joey becomes a lighter person around Pacey." etc....

Joey is also someone very ambitious, sarcastic, cynical (about love sometimes too), working hard to get into collage and get out of her small town....

Pacey is self deprecating, doesn't consider himself smart enough to make something of himself, often feels like the black sheep of the family...

Dawson is literally the worst and Jonathan despite obvious flaws is still 100x the man than that universally hated guy is an aspiring filmmaker. Has a pretentious air about him and often belittles others and their problems around him because the only problems he actually cares about are his own. Again, I cannot stress this enough Jonathan>>>>>>>>Dawson.

So it's interesting to see how their arc and ending are deemed satisfying in certain ways too (and honestly could be applied to N/S/J too):

Joey gets out her small town, becomes a talented editor and gets a partner that she loves and that fully loves her and moves in with her to the city. Career AND romantic life fulfilled

Dawson always dreamed of turning his passion into a profession and meeting Spielberg. He ends the show doing both. Career fulfillment

And Pacey, he only felt fully alive when he could be with and love the woman in his life. And he does. Romantically fulfilled.

In other words, this could all mean nothing and I have no fucking clue.

#ask #stancy #dawson's creek

[thestobingirlie]

The take that Stancy happened in s4 due to the UD being stuck in 1983 resurfaced on Twitter. While I thought that could be a good theory prior to Vol2, it's such a stupid thing, really? If that were true, why would it only apply to one romantic relationship. The party would start hating Steve, Robin, as well if being stuck in time would influence feelings.

They say Steve said the truth about being over Nancy, so this came out of nowhere. I mean not really, he said the truth to Robin because that was how he felt that time but going on date after date and it simply not working out I think he did some soul-searching as to why this is. So, seeing Nancy and actively working with her for the first time in years brought some feelings back. Plus, it wasn't resolved at all in s2. They never talked it out, and Steve took the blame and internalized that. I think he believes now that he has changed, he can be there for Nancy in a way he thinks she deserves. She was the first person he loved, I think he will always love her. And as for Nancy, her behavior towards Steve was to me more confusing. I don't doubt she loved him at some point, but she had no problems moving on. She was out of that relationship long before they broke up. If Stancy is endgame, she needs more reflecting and explain herself and not just take Steve bc he's available now that she hit a rough patch with Jonathan.

yeah, i thought it was an interesting theory, and i do like the idea of the past coming back to haunt the characters, but i don’t think that’s what the duffers intended, and i think it’s a stretch to actually read the season that way.

honestly, with steve saying he’s over nancy, it really just depends on who’s interpreting that scene, because a lot of people think he’s just lying when he says that. but, like you said, even if he was over nancy that summer, after dating around for a while, and then being thrown back into a very dramatic and life-endangering situation with the only girl you’ve ever loved, i think it’d be easy for the feelings to come back.

especially when that relationship never really had any closure, and you’re haunted by the what-ifs.

for nancy, i think it’s more complicated. her relationship and love towards steve was so entangled in her grief for barb, and i think in s2 nancy wanted to move on from barb’s death, and it was just easier to leave steve behind too.

i think that, like steve, nancy never got any closure, but she buried any lingering feelings, and just didn’t let herself think about it (whereas steve kinda ruminated more on the relationship. though, because he totally blames himself, and doesn’t really realise the depth of the issues they had, he doesn’t have the total picture. which is another issue to be solved before stancy could have a healthy relationship).

nancy isn’t the best as dealing with her emotions, so again, i’m not surprised that something would come back up once she’s kinda forced to face him again. though, i think our girl needs a lot of therapy before she’d ready to be in a relationship with anyone lmao.

#steve harrington #nancy wheeler #stancy #stranger things #asks #anon

[maddy-ferguson]

can u expand on the byler vol2 problems

i said ask me to expand and i will and you delivered thank you for that!!! i didn't say byler vol2 problems though i said byler fandom problems post-volume 2!

i think the main thing is overcorrection. i said every major problem but i only meant the things i think of as byler tumblr trends that annoy me personally. tbh🙏 it's subjective. kind of.

i've been rereading posts from after volume 2 recently and yeah it's the "will only ever gets to be sad" to "will deserves a villain arc" kind of pipelines that you saw after volume 2 that i think are still very much happening i'm gonna talk about even though the will villain arc one died down pretty quickly. on this side of the internet anyway. some of these actually aren't volume 2 related sorry i lied i was mostly thinking about the mike stuff when i said that.

mike says i love you to el: everything always ends up being about mike somehow. i think this is the biggest one. people like the mystery and the way mike's sexuality isn't confirmed like will's is and so they analyze him more which leads to people literally rewriting history with takes like mike is more queercoded than will?😭 i get that everyone knows will is gay now but the mike focus has people thinking that will has no subtext when literally his entire storyline is full of the saddest subtext ever!!! but it's not subtext that you can choose to only read as "this boy is gay" so it's not as fun i guess😔 and it really isn't as fun. because it's mostly heartbreaking and awful lmao but yeah. just wanted to give a thumbs down to the mike is more queercoded than will take again.

mlvns say will is a whiny crybaby, bylers say going through what he's had to go through would make anyone cry just as often so will isn't even that sensitive even though he is it's literally one of the first things we learn about him lol. people imply that being sensitive is bad so often and act like will has sensitive gay kid allegations to beat when he literally doesn't like he is a sensitive gay kid😭 why do you think that's bad exactly...🎤

mike says i love you to el: 90% of people think they read everything wrong for 72-96 hours and then everyone's like oh no i get it now. byler's still endgame. overuse of the term media literacy and everyone who doesn't think or simply doesn't believe that the duffers would make byler endgame is stupid and has no media literacy. which actually comes off as very INSECURE!!!! and is frankly annoying. and obnoxious. the term media literacy needs to be taken away from byler tumblr i'm so serious.

will is not a baby just because he's gay look at these two scenes he's actually so mean and most importantly not sensitive (and then he's not even mean in the scene) and he can load a gun could a sensitive baby do that (and then he's literally 12 in the scene so like. i'm sorry but that's a baby to me😕). how dare you imply that he's sensitive, gay, and a kid. i'm kidding about the gay one because no one in this day and age is defending will by saying he's not gay but some of them might as well be because it's the qualities that made people assume he's gay that people try to say he doesn't have. the how dare you infantilize him he can load a gun one is just nonsensical because regardless of how you feel about will with a gun you're definitely meant to be like oh no this poor little kid has to defend himself all alone :( in the moment like him being a kid isn't a bad thing (??/!??,/) it makes you feel for him and is part of what makes what happens to him so awful.

mlvns accuse bylers of hating el and of being raging misogynists: elmike is born. bylers start saying that el will actually be thrilled by the match and might actually set up the guy she spent the first two and a half years of her life out of the lab fixated on who's been her boyfriend for over a year and her newfound brother. because she's so mature and over the petty drama that's a teenage love triangle. which is crazy because i DON'T believe that most bylers are as misogynistic as mlvns make us out to be like i've seen way worse which might be because...the show is actually pointing to mike being gay so it's not made up and no one needs to give el a thousand flaws to justify anything? even though people do blame her for things that i don't know if she should be blamed for but whatever that's a different discussion. i was saying: it's crazy because while i don't think bylers are all awful misogynistic el haters...the girl being so happy and out of the way and not being given the space to feel anything about her (gay) boyfriend not being in love with her is sooo new age 2010s mlm fandom sexism. let el have emotions about her breakup with her gay boyfriend who was the first person she bonded with (who didn't die immediately) after escaping the lab who lied to her about falling in love with her at first sight 2k25‼️

everything about babygirl mike and buff byers? let's not get into the whole buff byers debate i hate it with a passion. but it's like. people want mike to be taken down a peg. mike says i love you to el with will's sad little face in the background and people want mike to have to beg for forgiveness. which i get because as i was saying the other day, "i feel like my life started 24 hours after you were taken to the upside down and were traumatized forever because i met this girl who's replaced you in every way that matters, will" is hard to get over. but idk. people are so weird about mike being lame and loving will and about will barely caring about him in return and about the loserification of mike wheeler because yes mike is a loser but only in the sense that the whole party is!!! and that's something that gets lost when he's made to be below them and below will specifically because people feel like he has all the power in the relationship right now and will's at his mercy. which is something they don't like. like it's okay they're both miserable actually. rejoice! post-volume 2 mike needs to have fallen first and he needs to have fallen harder because if the only thing will gets at the end of everything is a boyfriend who loves him only as much as will loves him it's not good enough even though that's all he's not letting himself hope he'll ever have.

#kidding about will being a baby. i know he does not like being treated like one🙏 #see how i'm a real will fan #at one point i was like wait. should i do the will wasn't in the wrong at rink o mania thing again😁 #but then i didn't. sorry jackietaylcrsers #about the mike is more queercoded thing. this one time someone who mostly does mike analysis got an ask that was like could you do #the biggest hints that will is gay? and their answer was a link to noah's interview saying that will is gay and if that doesn't sum up the #way bylers tend to think about will's storyline #like if will's not your area of expertise and looking for the gay clues of a canon gay character isn't of interest to you it's fine but #they really were like there's no need to dig bc we know. and i thought that was so weird😭 and dare i say a little sad. #especially because now there's people who think he's less queercoded somehow?//?/)/) #anyway #ask

[booksandpaperss]

Good morning everyone, today I’m once again thinking about Mike Wheeler’s character

I think we’re kinda forgetting just how much Mike HATES lying. He hates it. Friends don’t lie? Yeah that’s *important*

There’s only one season where we saw Mike lying directly to someone’s face multiple times: s3. And who was he lying to? EL. And this got me thinking:

Even in s4, until his vol 2 monologue, he only ever lied to El through omission when he didnt even write a standard “Love, Mike” in his letters. S3 was when Mike was being the least authentic version of himself possible, and that’s the only time we’ve seen him say direct lies to anyone’s face. But who, even in s3, has Mike never directly lied to? WILL.

Sure, he’s hiding some things from Will (like his gay asf feelings lmao), but other than that Mike has literally never once told a direct lie to Will onscreen. Pair that with the fact that right from the get go in s1 Will couldn’t even bring himself to lie to Mike about what he rolled in D&D, AND that when Will was calling El out in the rollar rink while Mike was getting socks, his biggest concern was that he didn’t think Mike was gonna like that she was lying to him.

Soo what am I getting at here? Well, we can tell that Mike and Will have a mutual understanding (heh, Finn we see u) to above else, *never* lie to each other. When they fight, Will always calls Mike out on his bs, which is another form of absolute honesty. Mike takes his “friends don’t lie” *extra* seriously with Will (once again, his friendship with Will being different than with anyone else). So the fact that Will was the one who pushed Mike to lie to El is *very* significant.

When Will lied to Mike, he broke an unspoken understanding between them that caused a domino effect of miscommunication. This is happening *while* Mike is trying to be closer to Will again, and he thinks everything is okay between them right now. Mike finding out The reason he directly lied to El about how he felt abt her (something he had been avoiding during the season) was bc of a lie that WILL of all ppl told?

That is going to break Mike. He’s not going to know what to do with himself. Will is gonna have to be completely honest with Mike about what happened in order to save their friendship… except Will thinks his truth is what would *ruin* their friendship. If duffers have any decent writing skill (and they do) then there’s no way this isn’t going to massively blow up:

“Friends don’t lie, Will! Especially *best* friends! Why? WHY did you lie to me like that??”

“Well then I guess we just aren’t best friends anymore, Mike!”

Yeah… it’s not gonna be pretty.

#byler #guys I’m so scared the more I think abt it the more I realize how badly this is gonna blow up #mike and will #byler analysis #byler painting #mike wheeler

[iratetourist]

eddie munson: running away vs control and choice

i hate the way they tried to frame eddie’s death as being heroic, BUT i do think there is a lot of validity to the idea of him “not wanting to run away anymore”. i know a lot of ppl hate this (i do, too, but only because i think it was done poorly… i don’t think it’s a bad character point in theory), but i think it fits eddie’s personality more than ppl give it credit for.

i think eddie’s whole life has been one big thing where he feels like he doesn’t have control. we know he grew up disadvantaged, with a shit dad for a good bit of it, and we know he is consistently seen and stereotyped as the loner freak, even tho we know in reality he is actually a really nice dude. he’s been forced into boxes and circumstances his entire life with little to no say, so i think it is safe to say he would grasp at any opportunity to feel a sense of control over his own choices and life (like “owning” it), but maybe also would cow to the bullshit more often than not just out of instinct because he might feel like it’s too good to be true and/or that he deserves it.

then chrissy dies and he is thrust into the whole upside down situation and what little control he did have is gone completely. forced to hide out because he’s wanted for murder, forced to contend with this entire debacle because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. he knows that no one outside of the hawkins gang will take the time to believe him or trust him - his life is as good as over, as far as he is concerned. he’s not about to just hang in the towel, per se, but he also has no goddamn idea what he is doing, and just kind of goes along with it all because what else is he meant to do?

but then the upside down mission happens and even if he’d rather be anywhere else, he feels a sense of agency for the first time since being dropped in an extremely traumatizing situation - like right then and there, he can make a choice for himself instead of having it made for him or it getting foisted upon him.

he goes “i can help, i can do this, for dustin, for chrissy, for everyone else, for myself” and then just goes for it. the guitar scene, the sacrifice. impulsive and crazy and stupid? yes, absolutely. he couldn’t know any better, but the fact is that he chose it himself, for himself. no one got to tell him what to do, and he felt like he regained a bit of volition, a bit of sense and responsibility and agency after a lifetime of having it taken from him.

again, i think they could have gone about his death and the theme surrounding it a lot better, but i think this makes sense for him as a character, but that’s just my read on things.

i don’t think he ever wanted to be seen as a hero (his characterization doesn’t support this and also it just doesn’t fit with him tbh), but the duffers weirdly framed his death that way, when i honestly believe the one thing eddie munson wanted and felt he needed was to stop “running” from what he had been told he was and what had been placed upon him, because all running away did prior was reinforce and play into what ppl (himself included) thought of him and only served to preserve the little box he had been placed into (“i do this because society tells me this is what i am, so why would i go against that when i can give them the stupid stereotype they want” vs. “i know what i am and i am that to some degree, but it is not all i am and i am tired of letting the way other ppl view me control how i conduct myself”)

i’ll end this here but ummm yeah that’s just what i think about everyone’s beloved idiot boyfriend hope this made sense lmao

#me writing a miniature character analysis essay a week after the finale lmao #eddie munson #stranger things

[stregoniconiconii]

Screaming. Me but with Nancy instead and I’m desperately trying to bargain with the duffers so we can both get what we want.

Steve being an over enthusiastic ally with her crush on Vickie to hide the fact that he absolutely can not stand the idea of sharing her with anyone please Also do you think eventually girls would start warning each other like “He’s cute and he’s great in bed but something weird as fuck is going on between him and his best friend and it’s just not worth it.” meanwhile Robin is like “Damn neither of us are getting bitches :(”

the thing with Nancy is that well. I don't trust her to not break any hearts. honestly my head canon is that if robin did tell Steve that she had a thing for Nancy that it would be the one time that Steve wouldn't be all over enthusiastic ally over robin's potential romantic endeavours. and that's bc he knows what it's like to get his heart demolished by Nancy wheeler and he wouldn't wish that on robin. I think Steve trusts Nancy with his life, loves her absolutely, but I think if they ever got back together he'd be holding his breath and just like waiting for the other shoe to drop. because honestly I do think Nancy would cheat on Steve if they got back together (track record isn't good and I don't think she wants the life Steve is envisioning for himself, the whole uh 6 kids thing) and tbh I found it bizarre that robin was like campaigning for Steve and Nancy to get back together in s4 bc it's the bff rule that you don't let the besties get back together with the ex that broke their heart. like part of the reason I think robin would kinda hate Steve's girlfriends/dates is bc she doesn't want his heart to get broken like Nancy broke it...besides the weird platonic jealousy thing she's got going on too lmao. idk maybe Steve was being a bit of an unreliable narrator when he told robin the story of stoncy circa 1983-1984 bc the bare facts do not paint either Nancy or Jonathan in a good light. or he just doesn't know all the facts but um we the audience do. maybe all Steve knows is that Nancy didn't ever actually love him during the year they were dating and that after their fight/break up Nancy and Jonathan teamed up (this is my version of friend's were they on a break or not bc um. it doesn't matter if they were technically broken up, it's still a huge betrayal imo and I see the s2 stancy fight as a fight and not a break up soooo cheater mccheaterson) but does Steve know that Nancy and Jonathan had sex? does he know that Nancy was pining after Jonathan for the whole year and that he was literally second choice bc Jonathan didn't ask her out after a month of waiting? yeah I don't think so, because I think he would have a lot more feelings about it. and then like. idk I don't really ship ronance (I love that everyone's having fun with it tho <3) mostly bc I don't think Nancy likes girls but lets say she did the reason why I struggle to ship Nancy with robin is kinda the same reason I struggle to ship Nancy with Jonathan in the sense that Nancy says and does some pretty mean things to both of them (nancy's frustration with robin at the library, only warming up to her when she proves useful, which is mostly due to robin being autistic coded vs Nancy calling Jonathan's very real financial situation an "Oliver Twist routine"; neither of these things are things that robin and Jonathan can control and Nancy doesn't ever apologise for saying these things or acting that way. which she doesn't have to I guess but I think it contributes to the girl boss syndrome Nancy has which is that she's never wrong. which is why I Liked ronance teaming up this season bc it gave Nancy the opportunity to be wrong <3) anyway basically I have complicated feelings about Nancy and I think she's bad at relationships and she would definitely fuck up a polyamorous relationship but maybe that disaster would be fun to explore? idk. single Nancy rights

also yes there is definitely a gossip chain about Steve harrington and his weird relationship with his best friend but there's always somebody willing to take that risk in the name of good dick

[thecreelhouse]

Another B*lly ask here ignore if you don't want to have this discussion on your blog, because I honestly understand not wanting to interact with this topic.

Going off that other anon, yes B*lly stans really blame Max for a lot of things than her abuser. There were a bunch of people who were angry at Max's speech in vol2, saying the Duffers just shit on B*lly even in death and it was apparently ooc for Max to wish for B*lly to dissappear, those are the words of the Duffers not Max because they are evil people. It's insane to me because I feel like I watched a completely different show than them, because they think after s2 Max and him were close and had a almost normal relationship. I mean I shit on the Duffers constantly, but one thing I have to give to them is how they handled both Max and El's relationship with their abusers. I was skeptical before s4 (especially when the first reviews said something about Max avenging B*llys death) but they did a good job showcasing how complicating those relationships can be. As soon as I heard Max say she wished B*lly would dissappear I knew how much hate she would get from those fans. I mean like the other anon said, they believe her standing up to him in s2 was her perpetuating Neil's abuse and makes her like the same level as him, I know it sounds so fucking dumb. It's not like she had to watch her brother almost kill a guy, who was probably the first one to stand up for her. Speaking of Steve, they also justify him getting beat up because he in their eyes threw the first punch unnecessarily, completely ignoring B*llys violence towards Lucas. Plus some even go so far to say B*lly thought of Steve as a pedophile for not telling him the truth about Max's whereabouts. This is by far the most insane take I've seen so far like I was speechless.

They also shit on Caleb after the interview, saying his opinion doesn't matter, only Dacre's who apparently played him as non racist. I think that says everything about them, dismissing the things the main black actor says about their clearly racist fav. Even when people acknowledge B*llys racism it's always compared with no those are Neils beliefs he just repeats them, as if that's not what racism is lol. They always blame anyone but B*lly, he was 18 years old not a child who didn't know better he could start think for himself. I understand he was abused himself, and nobody deserves that but it's not an excuse for his actions. They baby him so much but at the same time are hyper critical of Max who is an abuse victim herself. Saying she should have known better or reach out more, etc. Like Max was 13/14 she's a child trying her best ugh.

I'm sorry this is so long, but B*lly stans just make me so angry. Like I get some of them, I've seen reasonable takes about his characters but others are just something else. When I first watched the show without being in the fandom, I'm new to it, I was neutral towards B*lly, like I disliked him in a normal way but then his stans tried to make him out to be this completely different character than he was canonically and it just made me hate B*lly sm. The complete opposite of what they wanted to accomplish.

no bb you’re so so so okay and your feelings about it are so valid bc it’s so beyond fucked. the way they throw him up on a pedestal and try framing survivors of his abuse as the abusers is SUUUUUUCH a scary tactic that abusers use commonly irl. i think that’s one of the main reasons why i can’t fuck with anyone who stans him. that and the racism obviously.

and honestly i know anyone could come at me and try to be like “but you write about kurt!!!1!1!1!” like…. ya babes but I don’t deny his character was fucking awful too lmao like. at least own up to the fact that your fave is problematic, recognize that, and maybe don’t internalize it and try to mirror his mindset/actions/words bc that’s just fucked.

anyway back to your points— yeah that’s textbook abusive behavior, deflecting the damage you’ve done on others to make it seem like you’re the victim. max did what she could to protect herself and the party because no fucking adults listened, and b*lly wasn’t stupid, he knew when and where it was safe to unleash hell on her. constantly a dick , but we saw behind closed doors how fucking scary he got.

also that’s so fucking infuriating that they’re being so dismissive of a black actor’s perspective on their character. like….. how fucked do you have to be in the head to try and argue that caleb doesn’t know what he’s talking about lmfao….. and these are the same folks that will have blm in their bios but try to ignore the blatant racist views their fave had. even if it was “indirect” at some points, anyone that doesn’t have fucking hay for brains would recognize that immediately after watching b*lly interact with lucas.

even if he DID get those views from neil, you’re absolutely right, he’s old enough to know better enough that that’s fucked up, old enough to know he has a lot of unlearning to do. and i get it, if we really want to get technical, i know the american schooling system has always taught us that racism is a thing of the past, and back when you didn’t have internet at your fingertips, living in a small sheltered town of mostly white folks, it’s not hard to fall into those shit mindsets. that is NOT me excusing any of this by the way!!! point is b*lly definitely knew how to be a bully, and it grew into something so much worse. trauma can really fuck a person up but it’s NOT AN EXCUSE!!!!! i say that firsthand lmao like i have lost people due to my outbursts and bad episodes and taking it out on them unintentionally but it’s something i still take responsibility for you know? you don’t get out of jail free card that just because you’re suffering yourself. just because you’re hurting doesn’t give you an excuse to hurt others!!!!!!!!!

sorry i’m rambling lmfao. anyway. the mental gymnastics they go through to defend their shitbag fave is absolutely astonishing. the disconnect to reality and the cherry picking is so fucking ass backwards; there’s no reason for them to try and defend him with “he was abused!!!!!!! where’s ur empathy!!!!!!!!!” and then go and excuse the fact that he literally wanted to beat (and probably kill if he could) lucas just because he’s black. i just can’t say enough how fucking insane it all is.

#sorry i’m so scatterbrained today bb but i so so appreciate you sharing ur thoughts!!! #y’all are always welcomed to share thoughts as long as ur not being a jerk to me or anyone else here but anyway #answered

[tellywoodtrash]

immj2 04.12.20 lb

dadi is totes eskited, jaise pehli baar shaadi ho rahi ho. shipper ho toh aisi!!!!

lmao iskiiiii utaavli toh dekho. didn’t need to be told twice. not even a momenttttt of jhijakkkk he had. varmaalas hote toh kachchue ki taraah mundiii aage karta. 

yeh aage itna parking space kyun choda hua hai????

lol this unnecessary chacha is back for what joy???? he wasn’t here when vansh “died”, he’s here for this total random ceremony???

lmaooooo all of their faces are so tortured. ki ek baar hi iss shaadi se humara band bajaa hua hai, ab toh doosri baar bhi ho gayi.

solemn sorry to vansh. ki i have to do this to save the family.

meanwhile jisse sorry maang rahi hai, he’s hassi-khushi lootofying mazze of wedding # 2.

he needs to fucking stop looking at her like this, like she is the reason the sun rises.

dadi going hardcore on this ki yeh waali tootni nahi chahiye ok, chaahe duniya idhar ki udhar ho jaaye. this ends only when riddhima dies (because sadaa suhaagan, etc. 🤮🤮🤮)

happy affirmative nods from this one. lol he’s genuinely so psyched to have scored his own wife again. cute!!!!!!!

ishani is like bhakkkkkkkkkkkk, saara mood kharaab kar diya. poor thing,

and lol angre went trotting behind her immediately.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ISKA CHEHRA DEKHO LMAO.

this bitch tooooooooooooo soft for his wife. I LOVE IT.

warning glares to everyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyone as he takes her.

LMAO HER PETTY ASS COULDN’T HELP BUT RUBBBBBBBBBBBBB IT INTO KABIR’S FACE.

V on the outside:

V on the inside:

blah blah how could you let this behroopiya put sindoor in your maang, i’ll find out the truth and then badnaaam youuuuu, just waitttt. abbe jaaaaa na.

wow. champion scrabble player kabir must be.

abbe duffer scrabble mein checkmate nahi hota. i overestimated your intelligence.

also how the fuck he instantlyyyyyyyyyyyyy make vihaan’s name correctly????? like, there’s 6 letters and if you do permutations, 6!/2!=360. THERE’S 360 WAYS YOU COULD ARRANGE THOSE LETTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

idhar this one is babbling about what happened today was just part of contract, main sirffffffff tumhaari hoon vanshhhhhh. 

this one deciding to toy with her emotions a little by doing the vansh voice. not cool, my man. she looks genuinely devastated.

grief gives way to anger.

lmaooooooooo she’s saying take my vansh’s clothes off and ripping them off him.

i would do the same, sis. NIKAAALO KAPDEEEEE (but in a sexyyyyy way.)

passionate defense of mera vansh aisa tha, mera vansh waisa tha, tum mere vansh jaise kabhi nahi ho sakte, blah blah blah. behen, speech dene se fursat mile toh dekho ki tumhara vansh is looking at you like he wants to take you up against that fuglyass wall right this second. mandbuddhi aurattttttttttttttttttttt.

trying to tamp down his horny by saying all this love you have for vansh seems fake af. website doesn’t seem credible it seems, lol. riddhima forgot to update her security certificates.

i can’t stop lmao whenever he calls her Dollar Biwi.

who dis watching from outside now??????

pushing and prodding and poking (saying the truth only, ki kahin aise he khel OG pati ke saath bhi nahi khele the???) aaaaaand.......

“thappad se darr lagta hai sahiba.......”

“............lekin pyaar se nahi lagta!”

lmao who knew he was so filmy!!!!!

“toh agli baar, sirf pyaaaar, pyaaar.........”

“...... and only pyaar!”

he cute and all but asking for a good kick in the crotch rn.

“laaton ka bhoot nahi hoon main; pyaar se baat karogi toh baaton se maan jaunga.”

HE NEEDS TO STOP NUZZLING INTO HER HAIR THAT WAY!!!!!!

ALSO BRO IF YOU JUST TELL HER WHO YOU ARE, YOU’D BE GETTING SO MUCH NOOKIE TONIGHT. STUPID MASOCHISTIC FUCK.

i hate this stupid “ladki ka gussa is so hot” bs. i hate it so much.

finally she gave it to him nicely. idk wtf she was waiting for this long. main hoti toh kab ka miss congeniality waala S-I-N-G method deploy karti.

he’s really working on riddhima and my lassssssst nerve.

speaking of fuckers paaofying bhangra on women’s lasttttt nerve.............. all you men in this house are really asking to be fucking stabbed in the eye today, aren’t ya.

scrabble champion kahinnnnnn bhi shuru ho jaata hai haan?

maybe all this badla and mission is just a sad way to distract himself from the fact that he has noone in his life to play scrabble with. that’s literally all he wants. vansh could end this whole thing by just devoting one hour a day to him.

riddhima playing dumb. not that it takes khaas effort for her........... 

anyway challenge challenge challenge between the two. idc. 

15 min and kabir will have proof he’s saying. yeah right. popat banne waala hai tera.

running in to warn V, and................

V’s face whenever kabir talks to him:

kabir ka toh pata hai, but why is dadi sooooooooo eager and happy to hear this story about how vansh almost fucking died????

lol V tells the whole story (that AP had cooked up that day about the ghar mein gunday and all.......) and kabir’s reaction......

“beautiful!!!!!!!!!”

V is this close to beating the teeth outta K’s mouth lmao.

mishra’s sent the proof aaaaaaaaand....................

lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

askdjlsakjdlaskjdlaskjldkjaslkjdalsklkjas i hate him lolololololololol

a narrow win for our team!

“kya hua kabir? tumhare chehre se toh aisa lag raha hai jaise haath mein aate aate koi bohut badi daulat haath se nikal gayi!” HE’S SUCH A PETTY BASTARD LMAO

mrs. petty bastard has some extra salt to rub in. premium grade pink himalayan salt.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. container house ke itttu se gadde ko bye bye, hello again to my king size mattress!

ofc they’ll fight about contract, sanskaar, blah blah idc i’m just here for what i know is coming up .

there it isssssssssssssss.

MANS GOTTA STOP LOOKING AT HER LIKE THIS.

“main gentleman hoon. kisi bhi ladki, khaas kar meri Dollar Biwi ko taqleef nahi de sakta.”

i’m so sickkkkk of himmmmmmmmmm.

badiiiiiii jaldi maan gayi riddhima??????? don’t blame her tho.

IF THAT “BETA MANN MEIN LADDOOOOO PHOOOOOTA” CADBURY AD WAS MADE IN 2020.

lo ji naagin 5 mein vani ne pardaa utaar diya toh idhar inko gift kar diya.

standard “tumhaari neeyat bigad gayi, toh bhi main uss side nahi aane waala” dialogue.

UGH I AM SUCH A SUCKER FOR THIS BS.

he’s like achcha mujhe le toh aayi, but karna kya hai exactly??????

vansh ne property dadi ke naam kii thi. it’ll be transferred back to vansh, and i want you to write it all on my name.

great. he’s gonna think she’s a golddigger now. re devaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. kab milegi muktiiiiiii riddhima mujh ko innn tuchche misunderstandings se?????

#ishq mein marjawan 2 #immj2 #immj2 lbs #episode liveblogs

[drawacharge]

Hi!!! What's your opinion on Steve and Billy's relationship with the group and how the group would react to Steve and Billy being together?

oh man, ok, this will probably be long so.... strap in. also this will be assumed like after billy get his shit together and becomes like, apart of the group in some ways. 

( dustin ) i mean, we basically know steve and dustin’s relationship ( and i really hope the duffers expand on it in season 3 ). steve is like the big brother dustin’s never had but has probably lowkey always wanted. as a only child i can tell you, as kids we spend a lot of time day dreaming about what it’d be like to have siblings, and i bet dustin did that and now he has one. and even though he can be a total nuisance sometimes, steve would die for him. 

look, dustin’s annoying, we can all admit that. he’s loud and opinionated and a fucking tween and that is just... billy’s worst nightmare. however. i also think billy is a secret nerd, just the kind that doesn’t go around advertising it like the party does. so. seeing as billy is also very opinionated, i feel like he and dustin’s relationship would be a lot of bickering about comic and movie facts and theories. 

also dustin would 100% give billy the “if you hurt him i’ll hurt you” talk,  which would just endlessly amuse him.

( mike ) mike is... mike. he likes steve, he does not like billy. it takes him a while to like billy even a little imo. to be fair, billy is probably the meanest to mike so i don’t blame him. also,  mike is super protective of his friends. billy terrorized his friends. therefore billy is on his permanent shit list. i think mike holds grudges and for a while ( lmao same tho ). i think the only hope he’d have of warming up to billy would be will’s influence. and speaking of.

( will ) will is gay and the duffers can fight me. he is gay, and billy is gay, and when will realizes this ( whether he catches him and steve sharing a kiss on the byers’ front porch or what ) there’s this kinship that forms almost immediately. will has probably never met another gay person, after all, and he has questions and fears. questions and fears billy probably answers because shit, how can he not? how can he deny this kid when it was the exact thing he needed and didn’t get at his age? 

i’ve always imagined a talk going down between them maybe at some get-together at the byers’ that billy ( somewhat reluctantly ) attends. maybe will saw him and steve kissing a week or so prior and has been working up the courage to ask billy about it. billy, of course, is totally taken aback by it, and maybe gets defensive. up until he sees will like curl in on himself and almost shut down and thinks shit, because it all kind of clicks into place. 

after that they’re pretty close. billy would threaten anyone who tries to fuck with will. as for steve and will i think they’re chill. i think steve-- and everyone in the group, really-- are all a bit more protective over will than usual just because of everything he’s been through. plus he’s nice and quiet, what’s not to like about him? 

steve could do without those big knowing eyes that stare at him though. 

( eleven ) speaking of knowing eyes :/ el looks at you like she can read your soul, okay. it creeps steve out. he likes her, but she creeps him out a little. it creeps billy out a little too, but then he sees eleven throw something across the room and thinks fuck yeah. and el thinks billy is pretty cool. he has the earring, the style, the music. it kind of reminds her of her sister and her friends. she’d be weary of him at first, because she’s protective of her friends, but i also think el like... reads people really well and there’s some things about billy she’d just get. especially when she finds out about his father. el, billy, and will kind of become the “hey, we’re gay and have shitty dads” club. oh yeah, el’s gay af, fight me. 

( lucas ) lucas and steve have a good relationship. he’s the more realistic of the kids, the more rational one, and boy does steve appreciate that. he is, however, also very protective of lucas, and very aware of how some people in the town treat him. and then there’s billy.

billy’s relationship w/ lucas is.... rough. starts off rough, and even after billy apologizes lucas is weary. he’s a black kid growing up in the 80s, ya’ll. his parents have warned him about people like billy. even lucas’ own friends commit small microaggressions ( like mike assuming he’d be the black ghostbuster ). it’d take a while but.

i always felt like it’d only be a matter of time before neil found out about max and lucas. and i think when neil finds out, he would not only try to put hands on lucas, but max too. and billy’s an asshole, you know? and maybe, before steve and the others, he bought into his father’s prejudices a little too much. but things have changed, and he’s grown up some, and he’ll be damned if his father touches a hair on max’s or lucas’ heads. 

after an altercation like that, lucas would slowly warm up to him. plus, like with will influencing mike, he’d have max influencing him. max who like, despite all her and billy’s shit, has this protectiveness towards her step-brother.

( max ) max thinks steve is a fucking weirdo. she likes him, sure. but he’s a total dork who tries way too hard to be cool and she has no idea how any of the girls in hawkins ever fell for it. she also totally gives him the “hurt billy and i’ll hurt you” talk, but she also gives billy that talk about steve, so. yeah. he’s alright in her book. he took her brother on by himself for her and the others, after all. that earns respect. 

we all know max and billy have a complicated relationship. i think they got along better in california. i think he was a dick, but the kind of dick that somehow managed to endear himself to you anyway. he probably taught her to surf, took her out for food, ice cream, and movies. then they kind of lost that when they moved.

the now would be about getting back to that. finding that understanding in one another again. it would start with him apologizing, with him backing off ( some ) and kind like... respecting her for almost taking a bat to his balls and drugging him. that takes... well, some balls lmao, and billy would respect that shit. 

their relationship is them bickering, though, that’s something to understand. max and billy getting along isn’t jonathan and will getting along. it’s bickering, and calling each other names. but its also billy letting max have the remote when they watch tv, or billy taking max to get ice cream when neil and susan fight. or max sneaking billy dinner after neil banishes him to his room, maybe even offering to help him with patching up after particularly nasty incidences. or, more often, billy threatening anyone with in an inch of their life if they ever hurt her. ( sorry, lucas ). 

also, i hc that max eventually realizes she’s bisexual and that’s just another string that connects them. 

( jonathan ) jonathan is... fine. steve hates him sometimes, tries to, but its hard. and then he doesn’t hate him anymore, because he’s moved on and, honestly? he’s just happy jonathan treats nancy well.

billy thinks jonathan’s weird. he also doesn’t understand why nancy would drop steve fucking harrington for him either, but whatever. what’s her loss is his gain. 

( nancy ) lmao billy hates nancy, at least at first. i don’t think they ever become best friends, but they’re eventually amicable, giving each other advice on homework etc. before that, though, billy hates her guts. he thinks she’s a priss and that she’s an idiot for leaving steve. he also gets jealous because it takes him a fucking long ass time to get it through his big, dumb head that steve loves him, not her, and every time he sees them together before that his chest aches and his blood boils. 

we all know how steve feels about nancy. i think, eventually, they become best friends, which is healthier for them anyway. 

( joyce ) she loves them both :/ like everyone, she’s weary of billy at first, but, c’mon guys, she’s a mom. she’s the mommiest mom to ever mom. she finds out billy’s being abused, or suspects it, and it takes everything in her power not to just lock him in her house where he’s safe. she offers him extra food when he’s over and look. billy has a thing about moms ( no, not that thing ). he thinks all moms deserve respect ( susan to some degree, but only because she replaced his mom so he’s biased in that regard ). he offers to help with dishes, always says “yes ma’am” and “no ma’am” and joyce just eats it up. 

steve is similar if not the same. there’s never been a parent he hasn’t charmed. plus, he willingly totes her son around without payment ( despite her offering ) so she adores him. as far as joyce is concerned she has four ( 4 ) sons. 

when she finds out they’re dating, she reminds them that if they ever need a place to stay, her door is always open for them. 

( hopper ) i mean :/ hopper is a cop, how do you think billy feels about cops? not great. he doesn’t trust ‘em, doesn’t like ‘em, and the feeling is usually mutual. and it is here at first too, but damn is it hard for hopper to ignore the signs of child abuse. he even tries to approach billy about it, but he can’t do shit to neil without proof and up until neil goes after max billy just refuses to admit to anything. 

plus, jane loves billy and she’s so convincing :/ in the end, hopper is protective of all these kids, he’s just grumpy about it. 

also, he likes steve. or, more accurately, he likes who steve is becoming. remember, before billy, steve was probably the closest hawkins got to a troublemaker. how many times had hopper probably knocked on the widow of the BMW at lover’s lake and told steve and his friend to scram? how many parties either thrown by steve or attended by steve has he raided? and now here steve harrington is, maturing, taking care of kids, becoming an adult. that’s the steve hopper likes. he even thinks, maybe, that kind of kid would one day make a good cop. 

#hcs #harringrove #tHIS WAS LONG AF LMAO #i had... so much to say im sorry #@duffers hire me you cowards #ill fix your show #Anonymous

[sitaaronkepaar]

Daily Rikara Ramblings

I wasn't gonna do this today but someone said they wished i did them, and their wish is my command, so.

Waise I'm so glad they cut the show back to half hour again. Now i can watch the entire epi if I'm bored. One hour was just too much. You couldn't even ffwd without your fingers aching.

Ahahhahahhaha, the precap looks LIT!

And wtf, lagta hai sare segments aaj k hi epi mein hai. Rikara moving faster than the bullet train today.

You know, I don't have big family, or Oberoi's jitna money, so maybe I'm way off-base here but why do these people have such weird seating arrangements? Matlab har bar couples me baithna zaroori hai? No need to make poor omkara feel like the fifth wheel. Waise bhi bichara #FureverAlone hai. No need to rub it in.

Seriously, ₹2 game hi hai. Who plays truth and dare in this day and age? We play candy crush like men.

Okay, i can't with rudra being back to his lovable self when i want to hate him for years. Chalo, at least his creepy smile is gone.

Wtf, why is he so scared of bombs now? Jab bhavya ki jaan bachani thi, tab toh bada iron man ban raha tha

Kya bakwas hai. Lol.

Oh my god Bhavya wtfffff. OM servants are gonna hate your guts. Ye sab saff kaun karega?

ShivKara giving Ru pyaar like he isn't the 2nd most evul asshole in the room.

Shivaay my son, i knew you would be the one to bring up gauri. Baki toh no one gives a fuck. Bus tu hi gauri ki team me hai.

Uff, this loser and his tragedy. I wish i could feel bad for him, but I've lost all patience. Matlab ye aadmi galti se ungli na utha de to fight for his love. He couldn't even fuckin talk to her before leaving first. Like i wasn't even surprised cause i knew yeh asshole yahi karega. Ab ro baith k corner me. #no1curr

Ha! Rudy me bhi is se zyada dimag hai. For once this fucker isn't 2000% unlikable.

Waise i love how no one's worried about silly things like polygamy, or divorce. everyone's wants to complete Omkara's ishqbaazi ka safar except himself. Wah, kya family hai.

Shivaay, Omkara ishqbaaz nahi GiveupBaaz hai. Ain't no body gon do a thing. You gotta force him as usual.

Even annika's 100% more determined than Omkara to stop this marriage. But yeh mahashay bas side me baithkar royenge.

Wow, kya beta hai aapka mam. Koi aur ladki pasand nahi aa rahi thi toh he started dore daling on a married woman. Bahut khushi ki baat hai.

Omg Gauri, STFU about Omkara and marry Ajay. At least je isn't passive like him. And c'mon, if annika fell in love with Shivaay after he forced her to marry him and threatened to blow up her brother toh phir ye ajay kis khet ki mooli hai. You'll learn to love him. Trust.

I KNEW GAURI HAD A PLAN. MY CHIRRIYA IS ACTION CHIRRIYA, NOT ABLACHIRRYA. HAH!

Gauri's mom seems to have accepted her decision all heartily. Chalo, at least we don't have to suffer none of her patidev bhashan anymore.

"manzil khud musafir ka pas chali aati hai"

OFC YOU WOULD SAY THAT FUCKER. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN LIFTED A FINGER TO SAVE THIS RELATIONSHIP? SAB KUCH GAURI HI KARTI HAI. FUCK YOU.

Aww, man, that was such a loaded statement. Stop making me feel bad for you fucker. I'm not gonna melt today, I'm NOT.

These Oberoi's, my god. Dusron k ghar me bhi entry tadi se marenge. LOL.

But sardar Sso cracked me upp. Why is rudy in army uniform though? Bas army ka hi mazak udana reh gya tha is show me. Baki professions ki toh OMM kar di hai.

Lol daadi maa Annika.

How has gauri not recognized bhavya? Itna bhi andha koi kaise ho sakta hai

Shit Shivaay you duffer. Gauri definitely recognized you! Sare IBverse me you're the only kanji aankhein wala guy.

Or maybe that was his plan. Cause omkara ka bas chalta toh woh gauri ki Bidaai bhi kar deta

Ugh my AniRi heart.

LMAOO ANNIKA WHAT THE FUCK. LOL.

Hahhaha, annika's cray dancing is me when no one's watching. But kya confidence hai, lajawab!

HOW IS GAURI NOT RECOGNIZING BHAVYA? WHAT FUCKERY IS THIS??

OH FINALLY. CHALO, OMKARA KO TOH PEHCHANA. THANK.FUCK.

YAAAAASSS QUEEN, FUCK HIM UPPP!!

Omkara crying and gid gidaying is my new aesthetic. Matlab kya sukoon mil raha hai mere dil ko, you don't even know. Grovel for eternity you loser.

"Ek baar hamare bare mein nahi socha aur faisla le liya"

Now you know how it feels.

Omkara's grovelling is also useless like him. Will you ever stop blaming her for your mistakes, you failure? Will i ever get to see the day? Will any Rikarian?

"kyunki main tumhare bina nahi reh sakta"

Okay, lowkey feels, but i want more grovelling. Chalo, finally kuch toh phoota iske muh se.

"poori izzat aur samman k saath"

Yeah this is literally the least you can do after shredding her self respect to bits.

DAYUMMM, THE PRECAP IS LIT.IT.IS.LIT. I Knew it was a love confession. HAHHAHHAHAH. I feel so validated when my predictions come true. Lmao.

#gauri kumari sharma #omkara singh oberoi #rikara #ishqbaaz #liveblog

[bylertruther]

I will just never trust people who are ignoring Will's characterization lol. ''He is straight passing'' bitch where? Will was the only party member who was singled out as being subjected to homophobic bullying, and I am sorry but Mike hasn't faced homophobia, homophobic bullying/abuse... which is why it is important to recognize because their narratives are different. It's such a pet peeve of mine because it is undermining the narrative of the characters and their differences. This, and that 'buff!Byers' headcanons... I dislike so much because Will is not supposed to be buff you guys just made it up in your heads and passing it is as canon. The reason why the constume department covered Noah's arms was because they do not envision Will to be 'buff' with strong arms. And while headcanons are nice and all, it is kinda getting weird here when they're presented as canon to characters' designs/characterization/personalities. Mike's supposed to be the 'straight passing guy' here that is why he's never seen as the 'Gay Guy' and never faced actual homophobic bullying or abuse, he is portrayed as the 'masculine' character and is given those traits that define him....... but for some reason Mike is the one who is headcanoned as the 'gnc' and 'most queercoded' character here in this fandom lmao

#real. you can't even talk about it without people jumping down your throat with "oh, so you think i'm a terrible person because of my headcanons? you hate me personally? you think i should kill myself because of my headcanons even though your post wasn't about me or anyone's headcanons at all?" like, no, i just think you should stop making a fool of yourself putting words in other people's mouths and acting like a defensive victim when ain't nobody saying shit about you personally. ✋🙄

will was called homophobic slurs and assumed to be gay because he didn't behave or apparently dress like other boys did. he isn't like other people and that's okay. there's no shame in that. it isn't a bad thing, and yet so many people jump to "defend" him and make him into the kind of son lonnie would've loved to have, but that he ultimately just fucking isn't and never will be. the words that i put in quotation marks in my other post are THE DUFFERS' words. the person who said that they chose to lean away from noah's musculature was the COSTUME DESIGNER. i'd like to think that they know more about who will is than people online who would rather throw away entire seasons worth of scenes that clearly dispute their claims.

and i'm not talking about headcanons when i say this. i'm talking about people who genuinely believe their fanon interpretations, which are really just a role reversal if we're being completely honest with one another, to be true to canon.

not even robin faces on-screen homophobic vitriol from other characters, because she purposely "camouflages" herself better and that's how she survives. will does precisely what she says you can't do as a gay person in hawkins: draws too much attention, and thus makes himself a freak.

the irony of will is that even though he's good at hiding, this is something that he can't hide—something that others knew and vilified him for likely before he even knew himself. he never got to pass. his only choices were to survive and learn to find love and acceptance where he could.

this is already so long, but the differences between mike and will are the crux of their characters.

will has always been visibly different with no way of hiding it, even if he still desperately tries to, but he had a family that loved him and encouraged him to be himself no matter what. mike was fashioned to be the stereotypical eighties movie lead, was raised in a family where he was expected and hounded to be as normal as can be, and who is described as wanting to impress others and be as normal as possible.

will gets bullied for being a fairy and later a freak with issues after having come back to life. mike gets bullied for being a nerd, a "hellion", and a satanist. they have different issues, because they're different people.

will needs to learn that he can't hide from the world and call it a life, that he has to be brave and create a life that he can actually participate in and where he can allow himself to be loved for who he truly is. he tore down castle byers because he outgrew it. he needs to learn to live in this world and not the one he escapes to in his head. he needs to learn to allow himself to love and be loved, to be selfish, to be brave.

mike needs to learn that it's okay to be different. that conforming will not bring you peace, because that acceptance is no true acceptance—it's conditional, and you will never find any happiness or fulfillment in creating a farce of your own life. that he can have everything—money, material items, a girlfriend—and it won't be enough, because it isn't what he wants or comes natural to him. that he can't hold himself to society's rules for what a man should be, because society's rules fucking suck and they'll kill you either literally or spiritually. he's always celebrating everyone else's differences, defending them, and making others feel better for them, but he can't do the same with himself. he's the heart, but he needs to learn to listen to his own heart, too.

like. men in real life get called gay if they don't behave in a way that society deems to be masculine enough. men in real life get called gay if they're too nice or they dress a certain way. this is fucking real. traits, behaviors, interests, and material items are not inherently gendered, but we live in a society that suggests they are, and not sticking to what is "allowed" for your gender does come with consequences. that's just the way that the world works. i don't know why anyone pretends like that isn't so. things are better in certain places in the world, but we're not living in a utopia. be real.

but even then. that doesn't even totally matter, because we're just talking about the text here. will is the one that's faced all of that shit explicitly. the only time we've ever heard anyone say gay, or anything gay related, has been with him. mike defended him, yes, but those words were not about him.

mike defended will at cost of his own already pitiful social standing, because he's a good person and a wonderful friend. he couldn't stand to hear someone saying such vile things about someone that didn't deserve it and who was presumed to be literally fucking dead. mike was furious, hurt, and unable to stay quiet, because he couldn't tolerate the fact that will had gotten a shitty lot both in life and in his perceived death. that not even tragedy could make people be decent towards him. mike has always been willing to fight all sorts of monsters for all of his friends, whether they be fictional, from another dimension, or humans just like him. that's just who he is.

but that doesn't mean that mike received similar treatment as will did. troy doesn't ONLY look at mike when he says all of the many homophobic shit that he says, nor is mike's the only reaction that we see. and mike having long hair isn't a crazy thing, because a lot of men in that era had long hair. the artists that he and eddie presumably listen to are known for it, even. no one makes fun of his clothes or calls him a fairy.

like. i could continue on this tangent, but the fact that mike gets bullied for being a satanical nerd does influence how he interacts with his own sexuality. we saw it in how he spoke about women in season three. we saw it in the rain fight. we saw it in how he acted with el. we saw it in the rink-o-mania fight. we saw it in how he reacts to the truth and his inability to speak his own. will struggles to live in this world as he is, and mike struggles to be someone that he isn't. his ability to "camouflage" and "fly under the radar" like robin does affects his character just as much as will's hyper-visibility does.

have all the headcanons you want, but textual analysis should actually be... oh, i don't know... based on the text of the show? and secondary sources, such as things that the duffers themselves have said about it? i don't understand what the issue is. i don't understand what's not clicking even years later.

#asks #long post #not rereading this u get wht u get