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“System” is a Medical Term
…And Other Things the “Empowered Multiples” Movement Hid From Us
Introduction
Hello again, guys, Remy here, kind of. More or less.
This is something I’ve been meaning to talk about for a while, because it’s something absolutely no one in the online system/plural/etc community is talking about. Either because they want to ignore it because it makes them look bad, or because they legitimately just never knew that this had happened at all, likely because it was before their time as systems online. But I’m here to talk about it, because this is something that can explain so many things about why the system/plural communities online are the way they are today; damaged and filled with infighting and constant confusion.
Who Were The “Empowered Multiples”, and Why Does No One Talk About Them?
The “Empowered Multiples”.
That’s an identity label that should fill everyone but the most anti-DID, anti-psych, anti-recovery ableists with the most dread.
If you want a long, detailed and heavily sourced history of what the “empowered multiples” did to the online multiple/DID communities specifically, you can read this post here.
To make a very long story short, the “empowered multiples” was a movement started by Astrea’s Web and Dark Personalities that advocated for the abolition of DID/MPD as diagnostic labels and wanted them removed from the DSM, and displayed blatant superiority over those who still accepted or identified with DID/MPD for themselves, and that’s only a very small idea of what they did. They encouraged people to write them essays on why DID/MPD was a bad label, which they would both post on their websites, encouraged people to boycott the diagnosis, told people to refuse to identify with it it even if they were already diagnosed with it, tried to convince people that it was “natural” to have DID/MPD, including inherently pathological DID/MPD symptoms like time loss, as well as encouraged the idea that anyone was plural if they saw themselves that way and rejected the idea of DID/MPD.
They also deliberately muddied the definition of terms like “system”—which was originally a medical/clinical term coined with DID in mind only, originally referring to a “parts as a system” as it were—and “multiplicity”—also only associated with DID/MPD up until the “empowered multiples” movement, as MPD (when that was still the primary term used) was often referred to as things such as “multiplicity”, “being multiple”, the “multiple gift”, and more. See below:
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(Sources for these images are linked in the post above)
They changed the definitions of these words to better suit their narrative, to co-opt language that was not for them in order to both boycott DID as a diagnosis, and to still use language that they were comfortable with at the same time, so they didn’t have to change that much about the language used to describe their experiences.
In the process, and this was very likely 100% intentional, they changed the way a lot of people see the word “system”, now referring to any instance of multiple consciousnesses in one body, rather than a specific experience of “parts as a system”, which inevitably lead to the constant confusion and conflation of experiences, as well as the erasure of DID as a system experience, as this has directly lead to some people knowing about systems as a concept, but not about DID, or having very skewed perceptions of DID, things I have witnessed firsthand in the online communities.
Now, I generally use past-tense when talking about the “empowered multiples”, but it should be important to note that on some level, they do still exist within the plural communities, they’re just not nearly as prominent as they used to be, however, that’s purely in identifying with the term itself. The rhetoric of the “empowered multiples” is still quite rampant in a lot of ways, such as in the anti-psych sentiments of many parts of the plural communities, as well as even the “nondisordered plural supremacy” sentiments that many of them spread, with the implication that people with DIDOSDD1 are lesser for being so, or less “plural”/systems as it were, which all goes to display many of the ways that the “empowered multiples” still have an effect on the communities, whether they’re as prominent as they used to be or not.
How Did This Damage the Online Communities?
This damaged the online communities by constantly having dissociative trauma-based system experiences conflated with non-dissociative, non-trauma based experiences, and while there may seem to be a lot of similar experiences between the two on the surface, at the core, they have extremely different needs. In DID, integration/fusion, (not even final fusion/full integration), is often times necessary for survival and healing, and helps to give a more complete sense of self and personal history, whereas in plural communities, it’s often seen as an extremely negative thing on par with death. This alone shows that the communities are very different and have extremely different needs, meaning that the two cannot be conflated or treated the same at all, and yet this behavior of treating DID the exact same as a non-DID experience persists, simply because they are both called “systems”, when plurals, going by the original definition of the word “system” given above, are nothing like systems.
To clarify, I’m not saying endogenic plurals are not real, I’m saying that by the original definition(s) of the word “system”, and taking the history of the word “system” into account and who the word was coined for, endogenic plurals are not systems, because they don’t consider themselves parts, and because they are not parts neurologically. They’re plurals. In fact, “plural” as a term was actually coined as a non-DID alternative to “multiplicity” in the first place, which already makes it a great substitute for the word “system”. The reason that DID systems are systems, even if they don’t consider themselves “parts” is because no matter what, DID alters are, neurologically and structurally, parts of a shattered consciousness that broke apart to survive repetitive childhood trauma. This is something that has been proven time and time again, and even if certain systems are uncomfortable with this notion, that doesn’t change what the science says about DID neurologically and structurally.
But endogenic plurals are nothing like this, because they don’t have any substantial scientific evidence for their existence, let alone for what their headmates are neurologically, (no offense or judgement meant by this). So, going by this historical definition, endogenics are not systems, they’re simply plural. (Hah)
Is this a bad thing? No.
I also don’t think it’s inherently anyone’s fault for not knowing this, considering this is something that was pretty much deliberately covered up and forgotten about by most of the plural community, considering, well, if this were part of a community I were in, I’d also be pretty humiliated and offended by these people’s behavior, and would just want to move on. However, this is an extremely important part of the history of the plural community, and I haven’t seen people talking about it very much, if at all, and that needs to change if we ever want to start to fix the community going forewords.
How Can We Fix It?
The best we can do to even start fixing the community is to stop conflating endogenic plural experiences with the experiences of DIDOSDD1 systems.
Full stop.
The two experiences are far too different and have far too different needs to comfortably conflate the two under the same umbrella, using the same language, because someone with DID is never going to have the same experience as an endogenic plural simply because DID is severely dissociative and traumagenic, and endogenic plurality (or any non-DID plurality) is, by definition, not. DIDOSDD1 does not belong under the “plural umbrella”, because going by the historical use of the word “plural”, we aren’t plural. We’re systems, or multiple.
Using the same language implies that the two experiences are the same, when they are not. If you want to look more into the differences between DID and endogenic plurality, I suggest looking under the #endos vs. DID tag I have on my blog, which goes a bit more in-depth in this subject.
Is Separating the Experiences Necessary for Community Healing?
Separating the experiences via encouraging the use of separate language? Yes.
Separating the communities entirely? Well, that doesn’t have to be the case. It’s not like I could control people in the first place, so saying ‘yes’ would be useless.
Shared spaces aren’t inherently bad when they’re not using the same language to describe two extremely different experiences, implying they’re both the exact same just with a different origin, when that is very, very obviously not the case, verifiably so.
Conclusion
In conclusion, the “Empowered Multiples” movement did a massive amount of damage, more than I can put in one short post, which is why I linked the post I got my information from, which has dozens upon dozens of sources and links to archives of these sources, as well as screenshots and image descriptions for them, so you can read the original post and make your own conclusions based on the information at hand, (however OP explicitly asks for no syscourse on their post, so please respect their boundaries).
The “Empowered Multiples” movement did a lot in the way of conflating and confusing two extremely different experiences, taking language from the earlier DIDOSDD communities and it wasn’t even that long ago, either. The movement was only really brought to its knees when “The Haunted Self” came out in /2014/, presenting the Theory of Structural Dissociation, and just two years before that, 2012 was when the discourse surrounding the “Empowered Multiples” was at its peak. The damage that this movement did is still very, very prevalent in the community in the anti-psych fearmongering rhetoric a lot of plurals (and even DIDOSDD systems) spout, in that “fusion is murder” or the implication that all alters have to be extremely separate all the time or sentiments of “getting diagnosed will make you lose ALL your rights” in the form of long, severely misinformed and frankly bullshit twitter threads, and we can’t forget the outright ableism of being considered “disordered” that many plurals peddle—all of these things are remnants of the damage that Astrea’s Web, Dark Personalities and the “Empowered Multiples” movement have left us with.
These are the parts of plural history that people don’t want to talk about, which only makes these things more important to talk about now more than ever, if we ever want to change it and if we are ever going to make progress within the communities to stop the infighting.
If you want to make a change, we need to open a dialogue on this damage so that we can heal it.
Sincerely,
Remy
(P.S., I do not support the use of this piece being used to attack endogenics/plurals for any reason, that is not the reason I made this piece, I made this piece to start a dialogue within the system community about making actual, genuine change and to start a conversation about how we can try to fix a massive amount of what’s wrong with the online DIDOSDD1/Multiple and Plural communities, not to attack Plurals and to invalidate them, because it is very much my belief that it will do nothing to help the infighting between the communities.)
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not … the random anon lordt i’m SO sorry. i’m in a system who has mainly stayed out of discourse till now & therefore i don’t know most of the proper research etc. uhh what is lancers & pavilion? thanks for all you do
AHHH ily anon 💖
I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED, BECAUSE I WILL PROMO THIS BLOG EVERY CHANCE I GET, IT'S FANTASTIC
@pluraldeepdive covers a huge amount of online plural history from a neutral standpoint, and they say it better than I ever could. Here's a good overview of these two groups.
But, very quick and dirty history.
The endogenic community largely stems from the natural multiple movement. Also known as empowered multiples. These empowered multiples considered themselves to be... Above those dirty, disordered systems. They were "functioning", as opposed to survivor multiples. They were more intelligent, confident and didn't need therapy or help. They believed that it was impossible to be DID and empowered at the same time. These were the original groups that wanted to demedicalize DID. This was one of the first anti-DID, anti-psych movements. They weren't traumatized. They didn't have trauma. Eventually, it turned into, "you don't need trauma," and now, it is what it is today, but you can still see those core, base concepts in endogenic beliefs and stances.
Astraea, lancers and pavilion were the leaders in these movements, but lancers and pavilion were the... Crueler ones. Flat out hate groups, honestly.
@pluralitycritique also did an amazing post about the empowered multiples. I really recommend reading theirs, as well.
When endogenics can talk about this part of their history, I'll entertain one in my inbox.
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sysmedsaresexist · 3 years
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do you guys know of a symbol for systems that isnt associated with endos?
Unfortunately, I only know of the ribbon.
There is a recognized ribbon
And then @pluralitycritique created a new version of the ribbon that I really like
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It’s Debunk! Time!
“If DID is caused only by trauma, why is it not listed in the diagnostic criteria? Gotcha sysmeds”
There’s actually several reasons for this, but they can all be boiled down to a couple:
1) DID is a disorder that regularly causes people to not remember their traumas because another alter in the system is holding that trauma. Thus, a lot of people with DID will straight up not know they were ever traumatized in that manner, so they naturally wouldn’t report what they experienced to a psychologist because they don’t know about it.
2) Some people don’t consider what they went through to be “bad enough” to call it trauma, or “bad enough” to cause DID, and thus also may not report the trauma to a psychologist as they don’t consider it to be their view of “trauma”, or they may be more focused on the idea that “other people have been through worse” instead of focusing on how that trauma affected them.
There’s also the fact that the diagnostic criteria isn’t the only part of the DSM’s entry for DID. There is a whole lot of information on DID in its entry, including prevalence in the population, the symptoms in more detail, comorbid conditions, oh, and the causes of DID, and the DSM just so happens to not list any other cause for DID than chronic, complex childhood trauma, generally in combination with a disorganized attachment to one’s primary caregiver.
This is not a “gotcha”, this is misinformation on DID to say that it can be caused by anything other than trauma.
“But it says ‘associated with’ not ‘caused by’!”
This is medical language. They use the term ‘associated with’ instead of ‘directly caused by’ in the case that they are proven wrong, because with cases like this they can never be 100% sure of the cause of a disorder, especially one like DID, without being extremely unethical, and this is generally just to cover all their bases. It’s like this with every disorder in the DSM, and it doesn’t mean that DID can be caused by anything other than trauma, especially if you’re keeping up to date with the current research on DID.
Again, if there was something else known to cause DID, they would very likely know by now and it would be a revolutionary discovery for DID research, but that hasn’t happened, the current research and the DSM only state “chronic childhood trauma” as the sole cause of DID and nothing else. If they weren’t sure, or thought that it could be caused by something else, they would have put it in the DSM.
“You can’t prove DID is only caused by trauma!”
Yeah, because you can’t prove a negative. However, sometimes you don’t need to prove something 100% to be sure of something. Just because there’s an extremely small chance that the megalodon still exists in the ocean doesn’t prove that it still does, it just means that the chances of it still existing are so small that we shouldn’t even consider that to be a possibility until we see it for ourselves.
With our current understanding and research of DID, dissociation, childhood trauma and CPTSD, we don’t need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that DID is a trauma disorder to know that it’s a trauma disorder. All signs point to it being a trauma disorder and nothing else. Until we see a case of DID caused by something other than childhood trauma, it’s wildly inappropriate to say that it can be caused by anything else.
“But DID is a dissociative disorder, not a trauma disorder!”
It’s listed next to the trauma disorders in the DSM to show the close relationship between dissociative disorders and trauma disorders. Dissociative disorders are heavily related to and associated with trauma disorders, that’s why they’re so close together and that’s why the DSM’s entries for dissociative disorders talk so much about trauma.
Now that those arguments are debunked, I’m hoping that we can get better and more well-researched/more well-thought-out arguments from the side of endogenics. I’m not anti-endo, I’m anti-misinformation, and I debunk these arguments to give endogenics a better understanding of DID and to encourage more critical thinking, as well as to display the differences between DID and endogenics so that we can all get a better understanding of both sides.
Remember: I don’t support my posts being used to harass, attack or fakeclaim endogenics. I make these posts to open dialogues within the community and to attempt to grow communication and understanding between both sides of the argument. Fakeclaiming and harassment doesn’t help anyone on either side.
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Persecutors Only Come from DID/OSDD1 Systems: Here’s Why, and What You Can Say Instead
Persecutors only come from traumagenic, (AKA dissociative/DIDOSDD1), systems.
Persecutors are a system member that is created specifically to get "ahead" of abuse and/or other forms of trauma by punishing the body and/or the rest of the system, under the logic that if they abuse themselves/the system first, it will keep them safe(r) from the abuser(s)/trauma happening to them.
They aren't just "mean" or "rude" alters or alters that are closed off, they are alters specifically to get ahead of and reenact abuse and trauma in a misguided attempt at protecting the system and literally any alter in your system can be or become a persecutor, no matter how well of a caretaker they are, no matter how good of a protector they are, how good of a gatekeeper they are, even if they're an introject of a character or person who generally seems very nice, they can still all be persecutors by harming the body or other members of the system to reenact or get ahead of abuse and trauma, because it’s not about being mean, it’s about protecting the system.
Persecutors aren’t just rude or mean for no reason either, they are traumatized. They need help. It can be frustrating trying to work with them sometimes, but that doesn’t mean they deserve less help or respect just because their coping mechanisms are self destructive or otherwise destructive to the rest of the system.
This specific kind of alter only happens in DID/OSDD1 systems because they are formed from abuse and trauma and the term itself was created for traumagenic systems, having originated in medical literature about DID/OSDD1 systems. They cannot happen in a system that was not formed by trauma, and if they're experiencing something similar, then it's likely different and should probably use a different term, since persecutor is term stemming from traumagenic systems, and means something very different from just a mean headmate.
Other terms that could be used instead of ‘persecutor’ for nontraumagenic systems specifically:
-Clausiator: Coming from the Latin word for ‘closed’, this term references the ‘closed off’ nature of some headmates. -Standoffish: A descriptor more than a role, where the headmate is standoffish, i.e. generally not very friendly, may come off as rude. -Rude: You can always just say they’re rude. They don’t need a whole term.
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Why ‘Tulpamancy’ Is Racist
Here’s a reminder that using the term ‘tulpa’/’tulpamancer’ is racist. It is a term stolen from a closed religion, (Tibetan Buddhism), that got bastardized, and ‘western tulpamancy’ as a movement was widely popularized by 4chan and the My Little Pony community of all places. The original term is ‘sprul-pa' and refers to something completely different than what western ‘tulpamancy’ is.
Inb4 someone who’s not a Tibetan Buddhist comes onto this post and says that it’s not racist, I have to ask you, what makes you feel so entitled to speak over the only person claiming to be a Tibetan Buddhist in this discussion? While I am not one myself, what’s linked there is a carrd made by someone who appears to be a Tibetan Buddhist, and they talk about why the term ‘tulpa’ is a racist and culturally appropriative term to use. They’re not even trying to speak out against endogenic systems, they’re simply trying to say that you should use another term, and luckily for you, those terms already exist.
Other words you can use instead are ‘thoughtform’, ‘parogenic’ or ‘willogenic’, all of which describe something very similar to ‘tulpamancy’; the intentional creation of a headmate through things such as meditation. And the great thing about language is that if you don’t like any of these terms for whatever reason, you can just coin new ones that also don’t relate to ‘tulpa’ or ‘tulpamancy’.
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Endogenics Should Not Have Blackouts
Here’s a daily reminder that if you’re an endogenic system, you should not be experiencing blackouts between headmates, and if you are, that’s a sign you’re not endogenic. Endogenic systems can’t experience blackouts between headmates because blackouts are caused by dissociative amnesiac barriers put up between you and said headmates, which is something only caused by trauma, and that can’t happen unless you have DID. This isn’t just about full 100% blackouts either, if you experience grey-outs, don’t really remember anything other than bits and pieces when another headmate fronts, then that is a sign you’re DID and not endogenic.
This is not saying you should go digging for trauma though, if you have trauma it’s hidden for a reason and if you go digging for it you’re going to traumatize yourself further! This is simply telling you that if you experience blackouts, you’re most likely DID. That’s not a bad thing! I'm only saying this to inform people, because if you don’t have trauma between ages 0-9 then you shouldn’t be experiencing blackouts between headmates fronting, and you should be prepared to be handling trauma of some kind in the future, be it the near or far future.
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On Faking and Misinformation
Misinformation is so unbelievably prevalent about DID/OSDD that it's insane.
I got fakeclaimed by an anti-endo type because my alters acted "too similarly".
A friend of mine got harassed by someone on four different accounts for listing that they were an OSDD1b system in their bio and according to this person it "isn't called an OSDD1b system", despite OSDD1(b) being in the literal DSM as a diagnosis, with two subtypes known to cause alters or altered states.
I've been on subreddits like r/systemcringe and so many of the posts there don't make sense and are fake claiming because someone records their rapid switches and yawns while switching. Another post was making fun of some other youtuber for wearing wigs and letting their alters present differently.
Nothing about any of these things somehow means someone is faking their system, and it seriously escapes me how the amount of no true scotsman arguments, ("no REAL system would do this"), go all over the internet, with people feeling so entitled to someone's trauma and diagnostic history, thinking themselves so educated and knowledgeable on not just this disorder but on another person they've never even spoken to, that they think they can tell immediately if someone is faking or not.
Obviously there are cases where someone is trolling or intentionally faking in bad faith, (or even being manipulated into thinking they have a system when they don't by other forms of armchair internet diagnosing; that's a different post though), but "faking" implies intent. There is a difference between intentionally faking a disorder for attention and self misdiagnosis while truly misunderstanding a disorder.
It's this obsession with faking and fakers that puts so much strain on the DID/OSDD community. It's a huge issue because attacking people who were wrong about being systems helps no one if they weren't doing it in bad faith. All it does is push people to not look or act like the bogus boogeyman of a "faker".
In fact, I'd say that putting so much emphasis on who's faking and who isn't is actually what drives people to continue believing they have DID/OSDD when they may actually not, thus doing an immeasurable amount of damage to themselves by forcing themselves to dissociate and separate aspects of themselves into separate parts that aren't there, because if they're wrong they risk losing friends and committing social suicide online, and have to confront the fact that they were wrong; something the internet has forced people to associate with shame, guilt, and no chance of growing past this.
It doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on, the only people to focus on are the people who are faking in bad faith. The people who use their supposed disorder to intentionally hurt people and then get out of responsibility because "oh, it was my alter". The people that try to make fun of disorders by pretending they have DID/OSDD. Not the people who truly believe they have this disorder or the people who truly believe they're plural, (whether you're pro-endo or anti-endo). Not the people who are living their lives in good faith.
What we should be doing is expanding resources for those who believe they have this disorder when they don't, we should expand our kindness to those who realized they weren't a system, we should stop attacking people for faking and acting like being wrong is such a horrible, shameful thing when it's not; it's a part of life.
Misinformation on DID/OSDD is what leads to fake claiming, and neither of these things help anyone in the long run. All they do is make you feel better about yourself and your own system.
[This blog is pro-endo. "Tulpa systems" do not interact.]
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OSDD-2 Does Not Cause A System
Here’s a reminder that according to the DSM-V, OSDD-2 does not cause a system. OSDD2 is a dissociative disorder that refers explicitly to identity confusion and no separate parts. the trauma that causes OSDD-2 happens generally later on in life, after the cutoff age for DID/OSDD-1, and often relates to identity confusion due to outside coercion, but contains no separate parts.
Encouraging the idea that people can be systems with OSDD-2 is not only incorrect, but only causes further dissociation and will only impair the healing process for this person, as well as spreading misinformation on a disorder that’s already researched and backup upon.
Here is an image of the OSDD section of the DSM-V and the highlighted part refers specifically to OSDD-2, explaining its basic symptoms, what can cause OSDD-2 and it lists no separate parts/alters/identity states, as well as no ‘episodes of possession’. It specifically notes that it may present with ‘prolonged changes in, or conscious questioning of, their identity’.
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OSDD-2 does not cause a system, it causes identity disturbance and confusion due to intense persuasion. If there was another subset of OSDD that causes parts/alters, then it would be labelled under OSDD-1c, (which is not an existing OSDD subtype), instead of being its own separate disorder.
In fact, OSDD-2 can come from people intensely persuading someone that they have a system when they, in fact, do not, and by continuously spreading the misinformation that people with OSDD-2 can be systems, when they are mistaking identity confusion for parts, is only going to make their symptoms worse.
Please stop spreading the idea that you can be a system with OSDD-2, this is serious misinformation.
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Honestly, I wouldn't say it's directly proof that someone isn't faking if they’re worried about faking, more like, 'if you're worried about faking, then it's more likely you are not', but it’s not in and of itself hard evidence that someone isn’t faking.
I say this because it's completely possible to misattribute symptoms to the wrong diagnosis, and if you latch onto a diagnosis for long enough, you can accidentally manifest symptoms or see symptoms related to that diagnosis without actually having that illness. It's psychosomatic, and I think this is definitely something that needs to be talked about a lot more.
We need to open a dialogue about people who were wrong about being a system. People who faked systems for any reason.
This is extremely controversial, but here’s my take on it, and my advice on self-doubt and denial:
If you’re worried about faking, don’t automatically assume that means you’re not, because these feelings are important. You can’t always ignore your feelings and rely on this kind of reassurance because your feelings are important and they can always be traced back to a specific source. In short, there’s a reason you’re feeling this way, and there’s a way to get rid of that feeling if you find the origin of those feelings, untangle them and resolve them. So trace that feeling to its origins. Why are you feeling this way? Are you afraid that everything is too real? Are you afraid of having DIDOSDD? Are you afraid someone is going to find out and leave you because of it? Are you afraid of confronting the trauma that having DIDOSDD implies? Are you afraid of admitting it was actually that bad?
Or, alternatively...
Are you afraid of being wrong? Are you afraid of losing something if you are wrong? Are you afraid of losing friends? Are these feelings related to shame or guilt? Are you afraid of being harassed? Are you afraid of admitting it because of the shame often centered around being wrong about something on the internet? Are you afraid of being wrong because of how you’ve built a community and sense of self around this one aspect of yourself?
Trace your feelings to their origins. Figure out why you’re experiencing them, and resolve them. This is a legitimate therapeutic tactic; tracing your feelings so you know why you’re feeling a certain way and so you can communicate that to yourself and other people, and so you can understand yourself better.
This is a dialogue we need to open, or the community is just going to continue to be toxic. We need to be able to admit when we are wrong, when we are not a system, instead of repressing those feelings and pretending that they don’t exist and continuing to live a lie, because those feelings are only going to get worse as time goes on if you don’t trace them to their origins and resolve them.
This isn’t meant to be invalidating anyone, I refer to DIDOSDD in the first set of questions, but this can apply to endogenic systems with self-doubt as well. This blog is not anti-endogenic, and only aims to help the system community by providing a nuanced yet positive and welcoming space for people who want to safely criticize the wider online system community.
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A Criticism On System Role, Label and Origin Pride Flags
Hello, it’s Remy once more and I’m here to talk about why I, personally, seriously dislike system role, label and origin pride flags.
Introduction
The point of a pride flag is to spread awareness and be prideful of something you’re experiencing that might cause you harm or distress in your life because of it, which is why the gay pride flag was created. They’re supposed to be worn, painted on your body, posted on social medias and recognizable in real life, where people can ask about them and you can tell them about what it means. Where you can show to other people in a niche community that you’re a part of them, and that they can be safe with you.
Making a pride flag for everything, especially for things like disorders, alter roles and system types makes absolutely no sense because these aren’t going to get used outside of niche internet subcommunities, and I highly doubt they’re ever going to actually get recognized anywhere. You’re not painting the paragenic pride flag on yourself and wearing it to a pride event, you’re not putting the OSDD-2 pride flag on a pin on your backpack and waiting for people to recognize it, mostly because it’s not going to get recognized, and if it does, it’s going to be by people who mistakenly identify you as LGBT, because that’s what pride flags are most known for; being in the LGBT community.
Like my post on the subject of hyperspecific system labels and my criticisms of system origin terms, I have an issue with people creating pride flags for things like disorders, and worse, hyperspecific system labels, roles and origins because of a combination of things.
First, it feels like people are trying too hard to establish an identity and are trying too hard to make being a system their actual identity, which ties in with my next point:
It feels like people are trying too hard to conflate/compare being a system with being LGBT when the two are just not the same. This is a huge pattern in the online system community and it’s deeply uncomfortable for me, as a trans system, because the two experiences are fundamentally different in so many ways that I don’t know how people got to comparing the two in the first place. One is having a gender identity that is different from what you were assigned at birth, and the other is having multiple people/parts/entities/alters/etc living in your head and sharing your life with you. The two are not comparable.
Third is because these flags aren’t getting used anywhere. No one is photoshopping them into icons of characters, no one is wearing them to pride, no one is getting them made into pins and wearing them on their bag, no one is going to recognize them. People can barely recognize these flags inside of the online system community because there tends to be, like, 8 different flags for the same label.
It doesn’t make sense to have these flags in the first place, but these reasons just make it that much more irritating for me, personally. To constantly see systems and the LGBT community get compared, conflated, to see people act like they’re the same thing, for people to constantly create a pride flag for pluralpedia every single time they create a new term that may or may not be useless entirely.
The facts are, being LGBT and being a system are not comparable. They are far from it. Being LGBT is about your orientation and gender identity, and being LGBT in itself is an identity. But being a system, while it affects your identity, is not itself an identity. You don’t identify as a system, you are a system. Being a system is not a gender, and to compare being a system to being trans to gay or lesbian or queer in some way devalues the experience of both LGBT people and systems as a whole.
That reminds me of another thing, where people assume that if you’re pro-MOGAI, it means you /have/ to be pro-endo at the same time, which doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because being a system is not an identity and it is not a gender. The two are not the same thing, I don’t know how many more times I have to say it before people realize that being a system is not the same as being LGBT just because there is or can be some overlap for some people. Being a male alter in a body that was AFAB does not make that alter trans if they don’t plan on transitioning or consider themselves trans in some way, (socially or medically, by which I mean changing name or pronouns, going on hormones, identifying as trans in some way even if they are closeted). There is some overlap between the two experiences but they are not the same if said alter is in a body that was AFAB and has a host that has no plans to transition or consider themselves trans/non-binary/otherwise IDs as a gender outside of the body in some way.
I hope that I am explaining my point clearly enough, I’m not saying you have to go on hormones to “really” be trans, I’m saying that if you don’t consider yourself/yourselves trans/enby/etc then you are not trans, and having an alter that appears male in a body that was AFAB doesn’t make you or that alter trans, it just means that there is a somewhat overlapping experience that is, ultimately, completely different from the actual experience of being transgender.
My point is that these origin/role/etc flags are genuinely useless and don’t make sense to use or make. All you’re doing is creating a flag for a term that likely already has 8 other flags for it, and you’re just going to confuse people on whether or not you’re actually LGBT. Making pride flags for systems and mental illnesses don’t make sense, and it feels weird that everyone is trying to take the idea of pride flags without actually understanding what they’re there for.
But you know me, I don’t just generally complain without offering a solution to the problem, I have a very interesting idea for what systems can do instead of using pride flags. Instead, we can use things like awareness ribbons.
We already have a DID awareness ribbon, you may have seen it before, it looks like this:
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Personally, I think it looks jank as hell these days. I’m sure it looked better, but with the contrasting colors, the awkward stitches and the low resolution, it just doesn’t make very much sense to have as a symbol of awareness or pride anymore. So I’ve taken it upon myself to create a new awareness symbol for DID/OSDD-1b specifically, (since this ribbon is the DID/OSDD-1b awareness symbol), and to try to help revamp some of the other plural and system pride symbols that have come out over the years.
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This is my proposal for the new DID/OSDD-1B pride/awareness ribbon. The first one has colors and the second one is the transparent lineart in the case that you wanted to make your own colors with your own meanings specific to your system or background. The meanings of the colors can be found here. I made this ribbon to be a new version of the DID/OSDD-1b pride ribbon because it’s a lot easier to re-create if you wanted to draw it, and it looks a lot more coordinated and less awkward, with these stitches looking a lot cleaner to represent the pieces of us that shattered to cope with the trauma, and how we work towards connecting and communicating with each other to form the whole ribbon instead of being traumatized and unconnected/stitched together.
The other pride symbols for systems/plurality that also need to be brought back that aren’t specifically for DID/OSDD1 are these:
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And I talk more about these pride symbols in the other post I linked talking about the meanings of the colors on the new DID/OSDD1 pride ribbon. In short, these are the plural pride rings and the ampersand, both of which are stunning symbols of pride in plurality, with the colored plural pride rings being my favorite.
We should use these symbols instead of pride flags because they are far more distinct and recognizable and a lot less confusing.
What do you think? Do you like pride flags more? Why? You can send all of these into my inbox, I would love to open up a dialogue about this subject within the system community.
Sincerely, Remy
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On DID/OSDD Therapy and Fusion
Reminder that integration/fusion is not a bad thing for DID/OSDD! It is not ‘alter death’ or ‘murder’. Similarly, therapists aren’t there to hurt your alters/headmates, according to the ISSTD guidelines, they are supposed to treat them like people. They are not supposed to dehumanize them or treat them all like the host/the same person, and if they’re doing that, then you need to leave! It is not okay for them to do that under any circumstances, and it’s also not okay, (or even in the ISSTD guidelines and the DSM), for them to push for final fusion if you don’t want that to happen.
(Also worth noting that final fusion can’t happen unless everyone is on board! It doesn’t just happen because a therapist wants it to, and it cannot be forced!)
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System Hopping Is Not Real
I'm just going to say now that system hopping is not real. 9 times out of 10 it's intentional abuse, manipulation and/or gaslighting of some kind, and when it's not, it's someone who is genuinely misinformed. When you "system hop", you're often times just forcing the alter in question to go dormant, and the other person is either lying or ends up splitting an introject of your alter.
It is not real.
System hopping cannot happen because that's like saying singlets can switch bodies when that's just not at all physically possible. Being a system is not some magical, special experience that singlets can never understand or grasp, we are people/parts/headmates that share a body together and we cannot cut pieces of ourselves out to hop into someone else's head.
If you're claiming to do that under the guise of some kind of spirituality, that's not really a system in the same way as DID/OSDD, even paro/willogenic, etc, systems are, that's just a form of spirituality, and personally I'd recommend creating a new term to use instead of "system", because the word system implies something entirely different.
Personally, I'd recommend terms like "apparatus", "cluster", "collective", "collection", "flock", "constellation", "pack", "party", "guild", "union", etc. Or coin a new term yourselves.
[This blog is pro-endo, think before you reblog.]
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The Community Doesn’t Treat Introjects Like People, And As An Introject, I’m Tired Of It.
Hello all.
Technically not Remy here, but on some level, still Remy, and oh boy do I have a scalding hot take.
Almost /nobody/ in the community online treats fictives with any sort of humanity, dignity or respect.
One of THE biggest issues in the online system and plural communities is the fetishization of introjects, i.e. fictives/factives/etc, but particularly fictives and factives. This is something that happens on ALL sides of the community, it happens with pro-endos, anti-endos, DIDOSDD1 systems, parogenics, endogenics, all of us alike. Origin is irrelevant when fictives and introjects are involved.
In the community, there is a huge expectation for how fictives and factives are supposed to operate:
Introjects are always fictives or factives of comfort media/characters/creators/etc, and never of people you know IRL and especially never the collective’s abusers
You must have a deep connection to your source
You must have “source memories”/pseudomemories (the medical term)
You must always have “source trauma”/“exotrauma” related to your source
You must generally follow headcannons involved in the fandom or headcannons that your collective holds
You must actively seek out source content that suits you/your canon
You must miss your sourcemates and make “canon calls”/“source calls”
Being separated from your source always causes severe distress and discomfort
You must always split with no knowledge of the system or where you are now
Every time you watch a new media, you must split new introjects from it
You must always be fully 3D alters and never fragments
You must never grow past your source or become your own person, and must always be treated like your source
There are more, but these are the big expectations and stereotypes that I can think of off the top of my head.
Now, disclaimer here, I am not the Remy that generally posts on this blog, I am the co-host of the system. You should still call me/us Remy, I’m just specifying, because the Remy that generally posts here is not an introject, whereas I am and thus I feel more qualified to talk about my experiences being an introject that doesn’t fit any community expectations, standards and stereotypes, and how that alienates me from other introjects/fictives/factives/etc. I’m also going to be speaking mainly from the perspective of an alter in a DID system, and mainly talking about DID systems and introjects/fictives/factives/etc in DID systems, since I don’t feel comfortable speaking on the experiences of plurals that are non-traumagenic and non-dissociative.
I am an introject of multiple sources, 2 specific ones in fact: A fictional character, and our abusive stepfather.
I don’t have pseudomemories/“source memories” from either ‘source’. I don’t have memories of ‘being’ the fictional character I’m introjected from, and I don’t have memories of abusing my family. I just hold the appearance and some traits of said fictional character, in combination with traits and behaviors related to our stepfather. I didn’t start off as an introject of the fictional character, either. I started off as a fragment from childhood that held memories, emotions and traits related to our stepfather, and only recently, as of this year, did I actually become aware of myself during a traumatic event that I now hold the memories of. Because of that traumatic event, I started becoming more “3D” as it were, and part of that was latching onto the identity and appearance of a fictional character that displays prevalent anger issues and has frequent angry outbursts, something that is related to the traumatic event that caused me to become aware, as well as something that is related to our stepfather’s behavior. This character was also abused very similarly to how we were abused, making the connection and reasons for latching onto this identity stronger and more obvious, but in spite of this, I don’t have memories of being abused by ‘my’ parents in my source.
I only know that I’m an introject of that fictional character because of my appearance, and I know that I’m an introject of our stepfather because I share many, many traits with him, but I don’t have “source memories”/“pseudomemories” or any real deep attachment to my “sources”. In that same vein, I also don’t have “source trauma”. I don’t follow headcannons that people/Remy (host) has for the character I’m based off of. I don’t seek out source content very much because I don’t have a connection to my sources. I engage with it casually as in drawing fanart for the characters, but that is mostly to spread our artwork and to get commissions as my fictional source is a popular show. I don’t miss ‘sourcemates’, I don’t have any. I came into awareness knowing about the system, knowing who I was, knowing where I was, and knowing our general life situation, I didn’t come from nothing, (no alters come from nothing, they come from your subconscious, so they’re more likely to know what’s going on than they are to not).
I don’t share many traits with many of the other introjects in the communities because of this. I hate being treated like or compared to my source(s), so I don’t generally tell people I’m an introject at all. I changed my name, my appearance (relatively) and did as much detachment from my source as possible because trying to stay connected to it was exhausting. I constantly struggle with lines of thought like “[source character] wouldn’t act like this, you’re fake”. I actively tried to come up with ‘source memories’ so I could fit in with the other introjects, and it never worked or felt right because I wasn’t supposed to have any because I didn’t need any, even if the character I’m based on experienced a very similar abuse to what we experienced bodily.
Because of this, I feel extremely alienated from the system/plural communities online, because I don’t see many other introjects like me at all. I just see the community expectations of introjects, and I’m half inclined to believe that some introjects are exaggerating certain things about themselves to fit in, much like I tried to. What really doesn’t help is the fact that people treat introjects like a commodity, like something cool to have when we’re not. We’re just alters based heavily and obviously off of outside sources. That’s it. Introjects are always expected to tell people they’re introjects, we’re expected to flaunt our introject status as if it were an alter’s role within the system, which doesn’t make sense, because “introject” is not a role, its a type of alter, such as a ‘nonhuman alter’ or a ‘child alter’/‘little’. These aren’t roles, they’re alter types and there’s a huge difference. My role is not ‘introject’, it’s ‘co-host’ and ‘alter that keeps everyone’s shit together by keeping us on track’, and yet, here we are, parading around acting like ‘introject’, ‘fictive’, ‘factive’, ‘fuzztive’, etc, are all alter roles and not descriptors.
I don’t understand people’s apparent need to let everyone know that a certain alter is an introject, or how attached to ‘source’ they are, or the need to tell people you’re ‘introject heavy’, considering the fact that not only is this all personal information, it very obviously affects how people view and treat your system. People don’t treat introjects normally, they always come up to us, whether they’re singlets or systems or plural or whatever, and say shit like “you’re problematic for being an introject of x character/person/etc”, or “i love your source!” or “your source is triggering to me, don’t front around me”, or “why did you do x thing in your source?”, as if we’re expected to know what to say to that, or like we’re supposed to go “oh yes i know, i’m sorry for existing”, or “thanks for liking my source I guess??”, or “yeah sorry you obviously have the right to control who does and doesn’t front within our system and have the right to take away an alter’s autonomy just for us to exist around you collectively” or forcing us to explain why our source characters have done certain things, whether we have source memories surrounding those events or not.
The facts are: No one outside your collective is entitled to know you’re an introject. No one outside your collective is entitled to say who is and isn’t allowed to front. No one outside your collective is entitled to speak about your source with you. No one outside your collective is entitled to ask you invasive questions about your source and things “you” did in source, whether you remember them or not.
Another thing, people always talk about an introject’s source character/person/etc as if that introject is literally that character, and people don’t see how incredibly harmful this is? You don’t see how incredibly damaging it can be to tell an introject that they are literally that character, and reinforce dissociation between your alters by implying that everything they did and went through is real, by referring to them as that fictional character they’re based on? Because while it may hurt some alters to hear this, no, what you went through is not real or something that actually happened, that’s why the clinical term for ‘source memories’ is ‘pseudomemories’. Your source memories are based off of a combination of a very dissociated consciousness’s way of trying to conceptualize trauma, trying to make sense of everything by ‘filling in the gaps’, and a fictional piece of media/events that you did not go through bodily. It is not a ‘reality check’ to say this for several reasons, mainly because that is a term relating to psychosis/delusions.
It sucks for some alters to hear this at first, but your source memories did not literally happen, and the sooner we let go of this expectation of having detailed ‘source memories’ and ‘source trauma’, and the idea that we constantly have to reaffirm that these memories are ‘real’, the sooner and easier it will be to let go of a lot of these memories and trauma, and to start connecting/integrating* with your system.
(Note: I am not using “integrate” (lowering of dissociative barriers between alters, increasing communication, etc), to mean “fuse” (the merging of two or more alters into one), the two are very different and have very different meanings. Integration is required for healing in DIDOSDD1, but fusion is not.)
I’m not saying source memories or your feelings surrounding these memories (if you have them) aren’t valid, ‘source memories’ are normal to have in both introjects and non-introjects. I’m saying that these events did not literally happen to the body or to you. Most often, source memories are a way of processing and conceptualizing trauma that the body experienced in a way where the brain can think about it, but not have to attribute the trauma to something that happened to them, (ie it’s the brain saying ‘this trauma happened to this fictional character, not to me!’). Introjects are alters heavily and obviously /based off of/ an outside source, they are not, nor were they ever, the characters they are built around. They are and have always been, (in DID), dissociated aspects of a heavily traumatized and hypercompartmentilized consciousness. The implication that introjects were, at some point, the fictional characters they were based on, but /now/ they’re alters in a system, is extremely unhealthy and reinforces substitute beliefs that keep a system from functioning and integrating healthily.
I almost feel bad for other introjects in other systems/collectives, because even their own systems/collectives will treat them this way, and it only does damage in the long run. Most, if not all, introjects are at some point going to have to come to the conclusion that they aren’t and were never literally their sources, that the things they remember happening, while valid experiences, did not literally happen, and that they are allowed to grow past their sources and become their own people, that they don’t constantly have to perform as the characters/people/things that they are based off of. You don’t eventually /have/ to be 100% detached from your source like I am to be valid or whatever, I’m saying that if your existence as an introject is distressing to you, you are allowed to forfeit that identity and build yourself a new one. If it’s hurting you, you don’t have to go by your source name or dress like your source or act like your source or use images from/related to your source for your profile pictures or even tell people that you’re an introject/what your source is. You literally do not have to. I know the community encourages people to tell everyone everything about their system, specifically as a validity thing as well as pressure to be like other systems since everyone else is doing it, but you don’t have to do that at all. It is no one’s business if you don’t want it to be.
To everyone that has introjects or interacts with them:
Stop pushing these expectations onto introjects. Stop expecting introjects to have source memories. Stop expecting introjects to fit your headcannons every single time you split a new one. Stop suggesting that they were at some point literally that character/person/etc that they are based on. Stop parading around the fact that your introjects are introjects without their permission. Stop telling other people private things about your alters without their permission, actually, this just happens to be an issue that is especially prevalent with introjects. Stop forcing the idea that introjects are always heavily connected to their sources. Stop forcing your introjects into the box of “introject” and let us become our own people outside of what we’re based on if we want to be.
You may not realize this, but in DIDOSDD1, everything that happens in your system is based on your subconscious thoughts/views whether you are aware of these thoughts/views or not. Everything about your subconscious affects your entire system because you are all in the same brain and are all part of the same subconscious, whether you want to believe it or not. The way you view your introjects subconsciously is going to affect how your introjects split and how they behave, because everything down to what introjects you split, how they behave and how they interact with the rest of the system are determined by your subconscious thoughts/views of that source character/person they’re based on, the trauma/stress you experienced when they split, and your subconscious views of introjects, alters and your system as a whole. The less you view your introjects as people/individuals with their own thoughts/feelings/autonomy, the more that is going to affect how they behave, how they view themselves, (and it’s usually going to to be dehumanizing themselves because of this treatment), as well as how they integrate with the rest of the system, (ie usually by preventing or slowing down healing and integration).
This community needs to learn how to treat introjects with basic humanity and respect. We are just as deserving of respect and dignity as any other system member. I’m not the character/person I was based off of. I’m just me. The same goes for every other introject out there. I’m sorry if this is hard to hear or too ‘hot’ of a take, but I am so tired of (my alter type) being dehumanized by a community that is supposed to uplift, respect and care for us.
This needs to change.
Sincerely,
Remy
(PS: If any introjects want to add onto this post with their own negative experiences within the community, feel free. Or alternatively, you can come into our inbox about it, on or off anon, and talk about your experiences, and we can link it to a more concise post talking about the negative experiences of introjects within the community.)
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Here’s a reminder that you can’t have more than one dissociative disorder at the same time. They’re kind of like a scale, in that if you have something like DID, the most ‘severe’ type of dissociative disorder, you’re likely going to experience all symptoms and types of dissociation at least once, including blackouts, emotional amnesia, and DP/DR. If you have something like dissociative amnesia, you’re not going to experience DID symptoms like alters/parts, the episodes come suddenly, and can last minutes or hours, (rarely months or years), and isn’t generally a constant, like it is in DID.
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Why I Dislike “If You Think You’re Faking, You’re Not” and Similar Sentiments
…And what you can say and do instead.
Here I am, back at it again with my extreme distaste for the sentence “if you think you’re faking, that’s a telltale sign that you’re not”, which is true on some level, but also dangerous.
Just because someone isn’t intentionally faking does not mean that they can’t be wrong about their experiences.
Yes, if you think you’re faking, you’re not, because yes, faking is something that is done intentionally. However, there is always the underlying fact that you could simply be wrong about the label that you’re putting your experiences under. “Faking” is not the only reason for a misdiagnosis of something like DID, you can also be experiencing symptoms of BPD or just severe dissociative symptoms without DID, which are two big reasons other than faking, for a misdiagnosis that even professionals can make. This is something that applies to many, many disorders, not just DID.
Like I’ve said on this blog before in another post about this phrase, if you think that you’re faking, there’s an underlying reason why, and usually that underlying reason is fear. Trace your anxiety about faking back to the original source: Are you afraid of everything being too real? Are you afraid of discrimination? Are you afraid of what recovery might have in store for you? Are you worried that what you experienced wasn’t ‘enough’ to cause DID? Are you afraid of being unable to have real relationships with people who might not understand you? Are you afraid of people not believing you? Are you afraid of being wrong? Are you afraid of losing something if you are wrong? Are you afraid of having to tell people that you’re wrong? Are you afraid of your experiences not lining up with other people’s experiences with DID, and thus that makes you feel ‘less valid’? These are all things that I experience as underlying causes for why I think I’m faking my DID, or my worry that I might not have DID.
A note that I left out in my original post on this: None of these reasons for thinking you’re faking/wrong about having DID mean you’re faking or wrong about having DID. Often times, worrying that you’re faking DID is a sign that you should do more research on DID and the experiences of those with it. As much as I hate Facebook as a company, they have great groups surrounding DID where you can talk to people who have been diagnosed for years and you can get advice from them. Similar with DID subreddits. My personal place of choice to talk about things with older/more experienced in the mental health system people with DID are forums, since they’re primarily populated by older people. A form I ask questions on and share my experiences on is a website called psychforums, under the category “dissociative” (for obvious reasons). It’s a forum that is pretty open to queer/LGBT people and varying experiences, and is full of people who are very kind and supportive of even self-diagnosed/undiagnosed people with DID if that is your experience.
I’ve found that talking with older systems and their experiences, as well as people who are more experienced with therapy and the mental health system, and getting out of spaces where people sensationalize/over exaggerate their DID and alters has genuinely helped my experiences and has helped me feel less like I have to ‘perform’ my DID to other people and less like I have to tell everyone everything about my system, as well as helping me realize that I was, in fact, wrong about some experiences I was having in my system directly as a result of staying in spaces where DID was sensationalized/over exaggerated and especially in places where introjects were glorified and fetishized.
Basically, I’m saying that if you think you’re faking, figure out why. Think about your experiences, talk to people who are more experienced with DID and the mental health system, as well as DID therapy. Do more research and see if DID lines up with your experiences, and I don’t mean just read the diagnostic criteria, I mean read studies on DID, talk to professionals if you can. Get out of spaces that glorify/over exaggerate DID/DID symptoms/introjects/etc.
These things have genuinely helped me and my anxieties, they could very well help you.
Sincerely,
Remy
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