#recreation salt

[gale-gentlepenguin]

What is your opinion on the comments from the writers about the season 5 finale and the finale itself?

So I should say that the only comments I’ve seen (from the translation ) and this ( post )

My opinion on the writers and their commentary regarding the finale.

I do understand why they did the things they did.

Limited resources and wanting to utilize what they had.

I totally agree with their use of Piano Lucky Charm.

I think the fight the physical fight with Monarch and Bug Noire is phenomenal.

I can tell a Lot of effort went into planning this season out.

And as a Writer I can respect the references, nods, foreshadowing and jokes that were put in.

Fang using Kung fu is a hilarious image and it’s my favorite shot outside of monarch having a piano dropped on him.

People can say they like the ending, and if they do, awesome. I’m glad that you can enjoy this ending that I don’t.

So let’s have that put at the forefront

That is everything positive I have to say regarding the commentary and I will be going into detail on my ‘Problems’ below. And yes I will be getting angry.

(You have been warned)

I absolutely LOATHE their explanation on how they justify their ending.

Everything about it makes them sound pretentious and arrogant. They sound like they think they are being so clever with an ending when the ending is actually a fucking punch to the face of ANYONE that cared about having a resolution to this arc.

If the writers were so keen on having us CARE for Gabriel’s little arc. Why not take that Kwami’s choice special and replace it with a two episode arc of Gabriel, Emilie and co getting the miraculous? They can’t say budget because they could use flashbacks or the re-enactment from Representation.

And my goodness, the mental gymnastics it takes to say “Gabriel put down his other rings which means he lost” NO IT DOESNT. He is making his wish, he won. Why the heck would he need them after?!

“His wish is vague, so we don’t know what he wished for.” I DONT CARE IF HE WISHED FOR FREE ICE CREAM FOR EVERYONE ON EARTH! HE WON BY EVERY METRIC! It’s unsatisfying, it’s gross, and it feels all kinds of wrong to the point that my soul as a writer feels personally insulted.

The arrogant pretentious Pricks don’t even realize they left Ladybug in the losing position once again! She’s going to have to suffer the consequences of the wish. Not the person who died VINDICATED.

In the words of Brooke from one piece

“Death is never an apology.”

But she got the miraculous back? Yea, AFTER the villain got what he wanted. Adrien never finds out about any of this, Marinette is left gaslighting and hiding things from him, just like usual but now MORE people are keeping things from him.

All of this writing just end up with a cool final battle scene and then take a metaphorical dump all over it because their peak in character development is outfit changes.

The ending isn’t unsatisfying because it’s meant to be. It’s unsatisfying because it made 5 seasons of watching ML pointless.

And I didn’t think I could hate the finale more than I do. BUT THE COMMENTARY somehow made it Worse!? I don’t know how the f*** they did it.

But knowing their intent and knowing this ending was always intended makes VOLTRON’s ending SEEM serviceable. And yes I know how bad that sounds and I FUCKING MEAN IT.

#Gale’s thoughts #miraculous ladybug #ml critical #ml criticism #ml writer criticism #Gale gets salty #ml writing salt #recreation salt #I think for the sake of my sanity that’s the last I’ll be talking about the finale

[theluckiestlb]

girl...WHEN??? WHERE????

what are you talking about???? when you kept him isolated for 14 years??? when you robbed him of bodily autonomy???? when you exposed him to his mother's corpse to akumatize him, TWICE????

wait, wait—OH you mean when he was terrified for his life, literally begging you to stop after you beat him up. my bad.

no? OH, you mean when you forced him to leave the country and the love of his life.

Huh.

#ml #miraculous ladybug #the math is not mathing #i'm sorry for the salt but this unacceptable I am BIG MAD #adrien agreste #gabriel agreste #ml spoilers #miraculous ladybug spoilers #ml recreation #ml recreation spoilers #nothing says love like a deprivation chamber #AND SHAME ON MARINETTE FOR DECIDING WHETHER ADRIEN SHOULD KNOW THE TRUTH OR NOT #STOP!! ROBBING!! HIM!! OF !! DECISIONS!!! #literally a mar stan till I die but smh at the writers #TWO WEEKS OF PANCAKE DON'T ERASE A LIFETIME OF ABUSE #ZAG DO BETTER #'the good father i tried to be' girl you are DELULU

[zoe-oneesama]

Ladybug has far more patience than I to listen to Chloe’s new annoying catch phrase and not punch her in the face.

Based on Yamai:

Ko-fi | Patreon

#look I rewatched the first 3rd of Season 5 and all of Chloe's screen time is literally just repeating the same tired point #woman you didn't help even when you WERE called upon #OR when you DID help that was only against akumas CAUSED. BY. YOU. #yeah I shot-for-shot recreated chapter 8 of komi-san can't communicate lol #cracks me up that Ladybug and Yamai are both voiced by Cristina Vee so #my art #anti-chloe #chloe salt #ooc ladybug #haha

[eddo-tensei]

"Make sure that Adrien never knows about the villain that I was, but instead, that he remembers the times I tried to be a good fathe-"

YOU TRAPPED HIM IN AN ACTUAL WHITE ROOM WITH HIS EX AND MADE LITERAL AI VIDEOS OF THEM DATING TO AIR TO THE ENTIRE WORLD! SHUT THE FUCK UP!

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous #mlb #ml writers salt #ml salt #gabriel agreste #gabriel agreste salt #gabriel salt #ml s5 spoilers #mlb recreation #mlb s5 finale

[melodiousramblings]

THEY MADE A FUCKING STATUE IN HIS HONOR A MORHERFUCKING STATUE TO THAT ABUSIVE PIECE OF SHIT DOMESTIC TERRORIST FUCKHOLE

AND OF COURSE ADRIEN DOESNT FIND OUT ANYTHING. HE GETS RO KEEP HIA AMOK BUT LOL HE SOESNT FIND OUT HIS FATHWR WAS AN ABUSIVE FUCKBUCKET

WHAT RHE FUCK WAA RHE POINT OF HIM FIGHTING HIS FATHEE IN REPRESENTATION IF THEY WERE JUST FONNA MAKE HIM SEE HIS FATHER AS A HERO IN RHE END WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY GIVE HIM CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT LIKE THAT JUST TO WIPE IT AWAY LIKE IT SIDNT FUCKING MATTER IMAGINE BEING AN ABUSE VICTIK AND SEEING YOU ABUSER AS A HERO LIKE WTF WHERE IS HIS FUCKING AGENCY MOTHERFUCKER

CAN YOU TELL I HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT THIS OMFG I AM SO ANGRY

ALSO ALSO ALSO SO IF MARINETTE IS NEVER GOING TK TELL HIM ANYTHING ABOUT HIS FATHER OR BEING A SENTI IS SHE JUAT GOING TO CARRY RHAT SECRET FOEVWER???

OH YEAH BECAUSE THATS SURE TO MAKE FOR A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP RIGHT THERE OK NOT LIKE SHE NEEDS ANY MORE TRAUMA LMAO

WILL SEASON 6 FUCKING FIX THIS? FUCK I HOPE SO

Ok rant over I’m gonna scroll the tag and/or Twitter for a bit and go to bed, it’s 3:25am.

Please don’t come at me for this post. I’ve been holding all of this in since I watched Recreation in storyboard form months ago. I knew this was coming. It doesn’t make me any less angry.

Also yadda yadda Lila is the next Hawkmoth, woo fuckin hoo. I wonder what freaked her out there in the end though.

#miraculous ladybug #ml spoilers #miraculous ladybug spoilers #ml s5 spoilers #ml s5 finale #ml s5 finale spoilers #ml conformation #conformation spoilers #ml recreation #recreation spoilers #ok I think that covers all the spoiler tags #ml salt

[familyagrestefanblog]

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!

Adrien's amoks!!! Oh my gosh, she didnt notice the wedding rings!

Marinette almost killed Adrien! The entire time their conversation went down Marinette didnt realize that she was holding Adrien at gun point! That changes the entire nature of the situation! Dont tell me that it doesn't, it absolutely does!

Oh gosh this was so much worse that I thought! I need to further look into this. I was already of the opinion that believing that Gabriel gave Marinette his BLESSING after she basically told him in nice words that she will for the greater good let Adrien, as a then orphan, pay for all of his family's sins and mistakes on a disastrous globally scale is absolute insanity or blatant denial, but THIS???

look closer:

You can see Adrien's rings, oh my god...

Gabriel is talking about the day Adrien was born and how happy he made Emilie and him - that he was there little miracle - and Marinette is here not realizing that Gabriel knows exactly that she's ONE word away from making Adrien met his death in a mere second! Even Gabriel and Nathalie still had longer life-spans than the few moments Adrien was at the risk of having left if Gabriel made a wrong move or said the wrong thing!

No wonder Gabriel behaved as well as he did! And no wonder that all of this so quickly became entirely about Adrien while Gabriel kept catching glances at her hand resting on his:

"And Adrien will be miserable"

How have we gotten so far by now that I'm agreeing with Gabriel's faces here?? Adrien would be DEAD! She's even saying that her powers cant remedy any of this, how is this real?

Bug Noire is currently the threat towards Adrien's entire existence. The episode almost had Marinette kill Adrien/ Chat Noir with his own Miraculous! With PLAGG! Gabriel had to end up playing along to de-escalate the threat that SHE posed to Adrien!

I'm stressed right now!

Girl, take that hand away!

Thank you...

Oh gosh, this was so much worse than I though. Marinette is absolutely screwed and she doesn't even know why! Don't think for a second that this didn't had consequences via Gabriel's wish! Gabriel's love for his son very much exists and always has and it's by far the worst thing in Adrien's entire life!

I don't care if you truly think the scale of the wish is nothing but on the smallest dimension of 1:1 just because that's the damn berry explanation Gimmi gave for an easy understanding while obviously being characterized to be annoyed with humanity for how they treat them and how pathetically trivial the things are for Gimmi the humans wished for in the past, and the ending didnt immediately present you with the grand answer of how every chain reaction worked.

It's a reality changing wish after 5 seasons of built-up from the one damn person the show explained to you in ever way possible that it would be an world ending catastrophe if he got his wish!

If there is one bastard who didn't use Gimmi for something small and noble its the fucking MAIN VILLAIN before he dies and the hero almost killed their child who is the hero's love interest!

Come ON people!

#ml spoilers #ml recreation #gabriel i swear to fucking god #miraculous #bug noire #Marinette almost killed Adrien im going insane #she didnt even notice #that changes the entire scene #And yall actually believe Marinette got Gabriels BLESSING #ml season 5 #Just wanna make clear #This isn't meant to be salt #I'm just pointing out what's clearly on screen and give my low-key bugged opinion on it

[motherofplatypus]

"You and me against the world" Remember this line? You'd think when the whole world literally against them, they will work together? Pathetic.

#i already have my review for the finale and just wait until most of the fandom have watched it #im still thinking about your experience unlike the show #folks get ready for a tsunami of salt #miraculous ladybug #miraculous #mlb #miraculous salt #mlb salt #ml salt #ml writing salt #ml writers salt #thomas astruc salt #miraculous conformation #miraculous recreation

[xwolfclaw]

im Still no over Yet

#ml salt #thomas astruc salt #owl house #gabriel agreste salt #ml writers salt #miraculous salt #miraculous critical #belos wittebane #toh season 3 #watching and dreaming #recreation spoilers

[danidoesntart]

Miraculous ladybug writers really said "power to child abusers"

#miraculous ladybug #ml salt #ml season 5 spoilers #ml recreation #ml conformation #ml revolution #ml gabriel agreste #adrien agreste #chloe bourgeois

[sidsinning]

Ok now that I have said the good I must dive into the Oh God Why

Redeeming Gabriel is a big no thank you from me there is a reason why I am cheering for his death

The only way I can accept this is if the truth is eventually revealed later so Adrien’s vision of him is finally untainted by lies next season

Much like how we got hoodwinked by Chloe's supposed redemption (which I liked)

#miraculous ladybug #mlb #ml #ml re creation #ml recreation #gabriel agreste #adrien agreste #ml s5 finale #ml s5 spoilers #ml spoilers #ml salt #sidrabbles

[gale-gentlepenguin]

You know, I am 100% sure that if Marinette and Adrien were gender swapped the season 5 finale would be almost unanimously hated like it should be.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #ml critical #ml salt #I know I’m right #ml recreation salt

[theerurishipper]

A few more things because I am not done talking about this finale.

I know a lot of people think that this issue of Gabriel being seen as a hero and Marinette keeping the fact that Adrien is a sentimonster and that his father is Monarch is going to come back as a major plot point, or that Gabriel isn't really redeemed and that this isn't the end. And I'm not saying I have evidence that it's not going to turn out that way, but like... this is Miraculous we're talking about.

The show which famously tries to offer sympathy to bad people because of their tragic backstory by:

Trying to half-assedly "redeem" Natalie into some kind of super mother figure for Adrien, even though she enabled and participated in his abuse for years and never showed remorse for it, or even took accountability for it. Her callously killing Sentibug is never brought up again either. And she still does not give Adrien the Amok that helps him choose for himself or tell him he is a sentimonster, and yet is framed as a good parental figure for him.

Trying to redeem Andre Bourgeois and frame him as some kind of great person by having him adopt Zoe and send Chloe to live with her abuser by disowning her, even though it's his shitty parenting that let her get to this point. And letting him get off scot-free for all the times he abused his power as Mayor.

Trying to redeem Felix by glossing over such crimes as him giving all the Miraculous to Gabe, him committing genocide, him trying to ruin his cousin's life, him victim blaming Adrien, him returning Adrien's Amok to Gabe, and many such things. All because he had a tragic backstory and cared for sentimonster rights (even though he killed two on-screen with only regret for one of them) so that clearly means that he did nothing wrong and does not need to be held accountable for those things, even though he showed no remorse for it or desire to do better.

And the show which also famously ignores major plot points and leaves them behind with little to no resolution in favor of dropping new bombs on the audience, such as:

Choosing to ignore the Ladynoir conflict in Season 4 by having Chat Noir just push aside his legitimate grievances with Ladybug's bad decisions to continue being her emotional support partner. This conflict was not addressed ever again, even in Season 5, and was left without any resolution.

Neglecting any exploration of Chat Blanc beyond some obligatory mentions now and again to remind the audience of why the show needs more seasons.

The whole plot with the alternate love interests Luka and Kagami, which was built up across a whole season and dismissed within two episodes of the next season so that the writers could focus on the new Love Square drama they came up with for Season 4.

Luka's conflict about knowing Chat Noir and Ladybug's identities, which was written out in one episode, only for it to have been ultimately pointless in favor of having Kagami know it anyway.

These are great examples of how the show neglects to build up and conclude previously established plot points and conflicts in favor of substituting them with other ones and/or does the absolute minimum to somehow write them out in order to move the story forward and focus on other new plot points that they came up with for the new season.

From these, we can understand that:

Trauma is a valid excuse for everything, and a tragic backstory frees you from accountability unless you're Chloe.

And:

Previously established conflicts are not brought up or explored in any meaningful capacity in order to make way for new ones.

Knowing this, I think it's highly unlikely that the show will ever explore this idea of Gabriel not having truly become a martyr and a hero, and that even if it is the case, it will be neglected as a plot point in order to push this Lila thing to the front. At most, we will get a moment where Adrien learns the truth and instantly forgives Marinette for doing what his abuser asked because she did it out of love, and no one will question the implications of this in any meaningful way. This is because Adrien is not allowed to have feelings that inconvenience Marinette in any way, be it his hurt at her keeping secrets from him, or now her siding with his father and outright lying to him, because his role in the story is now that of Marinette's love interest and emotional support partner, and that's all he's good for. And as for Adrien acknowledging that Gabriel was a bad father again, combining the redemption that simply having trauma gives him and the fact that Thomas "Chloe is not an abused child" Astruc doesn't seem to understand the severity of such things, I doubt we will ever see him outright reject his father ever again.

For all these reasons, I really do believe that it is wishful thinking to expect this to be addressed in any way that matters. If it is not forgotten, it will be relegated to a single moment and forgotten after. That is, if it was ever meant to be explored. The writers of this show are... not the best at dealing with this sort of thing, after all. After all I've seen, it is not surprising to me at all that Gabriel was redeemed. There is a clear trend of characters with any motivation that could be construed as sympathetic or with a tragic backstory portrayed as being justified in their actions, having their actions erased and ignored or at the very least severely downplayed for the sake of making them out to be better than they are. Gabriel has been consistently given sympathetic scenes throughout the season, which culminated in this finale which absolves him of every wrongdoing.

And I know people feel like this is clearly not the end, but that's how a lot of people felt about the Ladynoir conflict in Season 4, and look how that turned out. This show has always been bad at dealing with nuance. An abused child is portrayed as irredeemable and evil, and her enabling father is portrayed as a good person for giving up on her (I don't even like her, but damn). There is a trend of demonizing those characters who really should not be, and offering sympathy to characters who haven't earned it. I have no trouble at all in believing that Gabriel is supposed to sympathized with and redeemed by the end. He gets his happy ending, he gets what he wanted, and his actions make the world a better place.

I've seen the idea that Gabriel actually lost floating around, but did he? He already knew he was dying, and he had, to some degree, come to terms with it. And in the end, he was clearly very happy with just dying if it meant being able to make his wish. His end is clearly portrayed as him making the ultimate sacrifice to wish for a better world, as one last good thing he does for his son. It's portrayed as him asking Marinette to hide all this from him to protect him. Of course, anyone with common sense can see that this is still really controlling and manipulative, but the show pretty clearly frames it as a selfless act. The line "all the times I tried to be a good father," isn't framed as the delusional statement it is. He's smiling in that scene, surrounded by light, and that's not the framing for someone who's supposed to be read as manipulative and evil at that point. The writers seem to genuinely believe that the man was a good father at some points. I've also seen others say that clearly Gabriel was not redeemed by the end because he refused Marinette's hand, but that's not really true. He did paralyze her, but then he freed her and returned all the Miraculous, and Marinette ends the season by fulfilling his dying wishes and letting the world know he was a hero. He paralyzed her, but then he also clearly listened to her. He was also genuinely emotional. Her words did reach him and it is framed as him making a "selfless choice" even though it clearly is not.

I've also seen people say Adrien's reaction isn't necessarily acceptance of Gabriel's heroism since he might be trying to cope with his loss by convincing himself Gabriel was a hero, or that abused children often cannot recognize that their parent is not a good person. And I agree, but that is clearly not what is happening here. Adrien has already expressed disgust for who his father is, and it is possible for him to fall back onto old thoughts and feelings regarding him, but that isn't what's going on here. This here, is Adrien being fed a lie that his father was a good man and a hero by people he trusts. This is Adrien being told what to think and feel, because there are statues of Gabriel being erected and Ladybug spreading the word that he is a hero. This is Gabriel's abuse being erased to portray him as good. And Adrien, after spending the whole season working up to calling Gabriel out, ends the season with hoping to be like him.

And I've seen arguments about how episodes like Chat Blanc and Ephemeral were there to show us that Adrien facing his father isn't a good idea because his reaction makes him vulnerable, but then... why would you write that! Why would you set the protagonist up with this plot point only to write reasons to leave him out of his own plot and character arcs? What about that is good writing? It only makes this finale more deserving of critique! It is not the defense it's trying to be. It just shows they couldn't care less about their own narrative.

I get that this could lead to a potential arc about trust and honesty and all that, but... we've done that before. How many times will Marinette learn the same lesson? How many times will Adrien forgive her for it? How can you even forgive something like this? And even if it all comes to light, what purpose does this serve in anyone's arc? Gabriel is dead, so there's no consequences for him. Marinette has been "learning" the same lesson for two seasons now, and not even losing all the Miraculous made her stop keeping secrets. And what more does it contribute to Adrien's arc to have him learn the truth later rather than now? How does it add to his story to know that everyone he trusts lied to him? Nothing, if you think about it. It really takes away from his story, because he can no longer confront the man who did this to him, he can no longer get that closure, because Gabriel is gone! Sure, it'll be dramatic and all, but that's all it is! But that is how Miraculous operates: shock value and dramatic scenes over consistency and character arcs. Which is why characters like Marinette aren't allowed to retain the lessons they should have learnt ages ago, and characters like Adrien are actively pushed away from their arcs to make way for some other drama.

And this is me saying this while believing they aren't going to bring it up anyway. How many times have we seen this kind of thing happen? For a conflict to be set up only to be ended unceremoniously with no proper conclusion? What reasons are there to believe that the show will actually follow through with this plot? Other than speculation, I mean. I don't see any. The ending did not indicate that there was anything wrong with what happened. The seasons prior set up the conflicts for the next season in the finale episodes. In Season 3, we had Gabe fixing the Peacock and Marinette becoming the guardian. In Season 4, we saw Monarch rise and Marinette lose all the Miraculous. In Season 5, we see Lila get the Butterfly Miraculous and that light that scared her or whatever it was. But we never see any set up for this being a plot point. There is no point in which we are supposed to think this is wrong. A set up, for example, would be something like Marinette looking to the Gabriel statue with a frown, or Adrien feeling unsettled somehow. But there's nothing like that. For all intents and purposes, Gabriel is done and there are new threats to move on to. And removing all that stuff with Lila, it just seems like it could be a solid series finale. The conflict is over, all the characters are back and together and happy, the main couple kisses as the theme music plays in the back in a scene that's clearly the sort of scene used in the ending of a show, and no one even hints at anything being wrong. It's all audience interpretation, and quite frankly there's no real reason to believe it's setting up something. Something was already set up and it wasn't the thought that this ending is in any way flawed. It's a charming, idyllic ending where all the characters are clearly happy and content, basking in the end of Monarch.

And what he did is not clear at all. Did he not actually rewrite the world? It seems like he just traded his life for Natalie's (and Emilie's???? Is that her?), because Hawkmoth still existed here, the Alliance rings still exist, which means everything happened exactly how it did, and the only thing that's changed is that Natalie has recovered. But this just makes the "clearly something isn't right" argument less valid. This isn't Gabriel's "ideal world," which needs to be fixed, this is just the normal world, where there is a statue of Gabriel only because Ladybug told everyone he was a hero. The things that are being done are completely against everything Gabriel ever believed in, so clearly the world is not based on his ideals, and it hasn't been rewritten. So, the only one really responsible for Gabriel being seen as a hero is Marinette (this is not a criticism of Marinette btw, just the writing). This is just the normal world, and the only thing that needs to be "fixed" is that Marinette should tell the truth. But the writers clearly think that Gabriel is fully redeemed, so there isn't anything that needs to be fixed. So why would they address this plot point again? They have no reason to.

And if he did rewrite the world, then the writers just made Gabe rewrite everything and everyone's memories so that he didn't have to be held accountable by anyone, especially the son he abused. That's going to be even harder to fix.

Any resolution to something I don't believe will be resolved anyway will undoubtedly a side story or a minor plot point. Remember, this is the show which is notorious for setting up plot points only to do nothing with them in the end. Everyone was so hyped about the resolution to Luka discovering both Mari and Adrien's identities only for the writers to decide Kagami fit that role better and shittily write Luka out in one episode. Everyone was talking about how Luka keeping secrets would undoubtedly have massive repercussions only for no one to give a shit about it and simply write Luka out for a few episodes and have him come back with no consequence in the finale. And this is a pattern for this show.

All this to say that no, we're probably not going to address this. It hasn't happened before, and I doubt it will happen this time. I've tried to give this show chance after chance, but it never delivered, and I don't trust it to do so anymore. I'll take all this back gladly if it does deal with this conflict well, but as of right now, I feel very confident in putting this post up.

#MLB #Miraculous Ladybug #Adrien Agreste #Chat Noir #Gabriel Agreste #ML Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Recreation #ML Season 5 #Meta #My meta #S5 Finale

[chronicallylatetotheparty]

I feel like the fandom is ignoring the fact that Adrien is under no obligation to forgive Marinette.

Regardless of her reasons for lying to him what the finale establishes is that Marinette as a character is not trustworthy to Adrien specifically.

In that Adrien trusted her and she failed. Not failed to defeat Monarch but, much more importantly, failed his trust in her.

To the point where the best thing Adrien's narrative can do for his character is break up with her.

The writers established so many parallels between Marinette and Gabriel that at this point Adrien extending forgiveness wouldn't be a sign of his own development as a person but a return to his fawning trauma response.

Said parallels ignorantly reinforced by the writers constantly forcing Adrien to put aside his own needs and emotions in favor of supporting his "partner". (Syren, Kuro Neko, Risk)

Support the writers never allow Marinette to return.

So yeah, I think they should break up.

I'm so serious.

Ephemeral's whole premise is Marinette taking advantage of Adrien's trust in order to learn his identity so she can tell it to Su Han.

Catwalker is literally just Adrien fawning in a vain attempt to be trustworthy. The inciting incident being Ladybug not trusting Chat Noir when he asks to take on more responsibilities. Kuro Neko ending with nothing resolved and the idea that Adrien as a hero is superfluous reinforced in his head.

It's not just Marinette's pattern of behavior that contributes to this.

Adrien's relationships with those around him are frayed specifically because of the Guardians' rules. He values Ladybug's trust in him so much that Adrien is willing to hurt himself to follow what is expected of him as the holder of the Black Cat Miraculous.

But no one else is.

I mean that from a writing perspective not a character one.

Nino and Alya are revealed to each other due to necessity. Marinette breaks down and reveals herself to Alya.

And Adrien is still alone. Still expected to follow the rules that keep him isolated from his meager support network. Still expected to just be okay.

He has a girlfriend now! That means everything is fixed! No need to worry about his best friend calling him annoying to his face!

It's long been a fandom theory that Marinette doesn't see Chat Noir as "real".

And this is reinforced several times when she learns that Chat Noir found out something she kept from him, apologized, and then... changed nothing about how they function as a "team".

After meeting Scarabella and learning that someone knows Ladybug's identity Adrien is mad sure. But he goes right back to fawning. To saying that "it's okay" because he has so little self worth. Because the writers reinforced the fact that he is unnecessary.

And that's because the writers don't see Adrien as his own character. Don't see him as a "human" character least of all after literally dehumanizing him.

#ml recreation #adrien agreste #ml season 5 #ml analysis #ml writers salt #ml writing critical

[eddo-tensei]

SPOILERS FOR ML SEASON 5 FINALE

This is the message of Miraculous. A neglected child who gets manipulated into doing horrible things ends up with nothing and everyone chooses to leave her to be "tended to" by a mother who doesn't give a shit about her. All the while, we're supposed to treat her as completely irredeemable. Meanwhile, an abusive father who happened to be the main person who manipulated her gets a last-minute sob story to justify all the horrible things he did before making a wish that ERASED THE UNIVERSE only to be treated as a hero even by the main character who he TRICKED into giving up her Miraculouses just to spare his abused son's feelings. And we're expected to be happy about this ending.

I'm not sure there was any more of a "go fuck yourself" they could've possibly mustered with the last stretch of this season. Message received.

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous #mlb #ml s5 spoilers #mlb spoilers #ml writers salt #ml season 5 spoilers #ml salt #ml conformation #ml recreation #ml finale

[non-un-topo]

#tog #the old guard #andromaquynh #kaysanova #siggy draws #two of them!! do not separate!! #posting art i hate today lol. because i miss these four so bad and i missed my doodly style #grain of salt historically accurate costumes dfghjgfd #don't try to recreate period costumes from memory ;;; #also #are andy and quynh on a rice cake? ....no but also maybe. looks like it huh #maybe they're all like little thumbellinas... hold them in your palm they're just little guys... #eventually i'm going to learn how to recreate that terrible medieval manuscript style !! #the old gays

[cameforthecat]

Listen the thing about the final is, even if they are planning this big "This is the Bad Place" moment later and they are going to "reveal" that Gabriel was a monster all along... This is still a show aimed at children. Now I dont know much about kids and I don't want to treat them as dumb, but I just don't feel like most kids will get the nuance to know that Gabriel was still the bad guy the whole time? That he was NOT actually redeemed? If even WE were confused by the show's intention then it seems really likely that a lot of kids will watch it and take it at face value thinking "oh so this makes up for the bad things Gabriel did, hes good now" and that's just not a message I want anyone to internalize. I might be able to get excited about this subtle psych horror plot if this was a show actually intended for me, but even if there's a big adult audience there's an even bigger kid one. Saying that they are going to fix things in season 6 doesn't change what they did here, and how many kids just catching this on their local cartoon channel might never see the fix? I don't know, personally I just don't feel like teaching kids bad principles so that you can dramatically reveal they were bad principles later doesn't seem like a good idea. I WANT to imagine that every little 7-year-old watching was screaming "No!! Bad man! They shouldn't make him a statue! He's bad!" at their tv but... did they?

#if even one kid thinks Adriens “I want to be like him” was anything other than stomach turning im ready to throw down #hesitated a lot on posting this cause i dont like adding negativity 😭 #ml salt #i hate to post salt believe me i WANT to like it i dont like disliking my favorite show #but i can't stop thinking about this #does anyone who knows more about kids wanna tell me im worried for nothing? #miraculous ladybug #ml recreation spoilers #ml recreation #ml season 5 finale #ml season 5 spoilers