#that adults in fandom spaces are inherently creepy or weird

[proudfreakmetarusonniku]

tbh I think a large amount of the reason people got away with being weird as shit towards minors in the mcyt fandom is like just homophobia. like with tommy, if a sixteen year old girl had a twenty one year old guy she met online “joke” about her dating her adult friend, masturbating, and having oral sex, having her say that she loved him in private chats, and repeatedly mentioning how she’s technically legal like he'd get the fucking cops called on him, but bc tommy was a guy it was just haha funny bc gay! they wouldn’t actually be creepy bc they’re not gay that’s silly! ignoring the fact that sexual harassment can happen regardless of orientation. like genuinely i'm honestly surprised there’s less creeps there considering how accepted it was to borderline state you wanted to fuck a sixteen year old with a massive power gap who's inherently incentivised to keep friendly relations with you and play it off as a joke. like do i think anything bad happened? no, but the fact that actual predators could have done literal grooming tactics and get brushed off by both ccs and audience- bc all of these things Can be a part of grooming, they’re not here bc grooming also requires Intention and the scary part is that it’s a matter of luck no one Had That Intention- bc haha they’re both boys isn’t that funny it can’t be anything serious or concerning they’re just joking bc they wouldn’t really be creeps they’re both boys! like if there was a predator in that situation the children in those groups were already being sexualised constantly as a “joke” the space was and still is ridiculously unsafe for underage content creators as well as fans. all it could have took was one creep and no one would even bat an eye.

#like again this isn’t an accusatuon #IMO it’s inexcusable that they did it for any reason but it doesn’t make them nonces #but if there Was someone who was no one would have took it seriously! #genuinely frightening to think about i will always feel a level of sympathy for kids who grew up in that enviroment #like they were let down by everyone

[mothheart]

Whyyyyy are people getting mad at adults who want to buy a plush or toy from a kids show. I promise no adult is going to throw hands with a toddler if they get to the bluey plush before them

#these teenagers are going to have the worst crisis when they turn 20 and realize that their interests dont just Go Away and they still want #to collect all the same things they always have #'why are you; as an adult; collecting action figures and stuffed animals' i dont know how to tell you that 25+ is not old #i dont know how to tell you that life doesnt end when you begin to have adult responsibilities #i dont know how to tell you how strange it is to expect adults to have no personal lives and special interests and quirks and hobbies #im so scared for teenagers genuinely #if MY crisis when i turned 18 then 19 then 20 etc etc was bad i cant imagine what itll be like for these kids who are adopting the idea #that adulthood is nothing but responsibility and suffering #that adults in fandom spaces are inherently creepy or weird #i know this was a thing long before tik tok but #id venture to say tik tok is making it so much worse #literally a plague on humanity #miles rambles

[ploffskinpluffskin]

sometimes I kinda wonder if there's sort of a. boundary or Something where it feels less Creepy to interact with minors when you yourself aren't one. bc i do often see the early twenty-something crowd refuse to interact or write with minors on the basis that it's weird or creepy but i almost wonder if it's bc at that time you're close enough in age to be genuinely mistaken for a peer if you're too comfortable and chummy

but once you're in your thirties it's less likely bc the dynamic and that chasm between you just Feels Different. i can't explain it myself tbh

and probably not everyone feels that same sense of distance but it just feels to me like there's a very clear boundary between you and minors once you're Old Enough that makes it less Awkward to interact in a friendly but hopefully still appropriate and Not Overbearing way

like in the real world there are absolutely adults who put themselves in mentor-like positions to minors and children and the vast majority of them are well-intentioned. it's certainly not as out there as the internet might lead you to believe laughs

but i can understand someone my age still feeling uncomfortable with it, especially here. there's a role of responsibility inherent in interacting with kids and adolescents and not everyone is up for that lmao some people don't want to Analyze the way they speak to someone else to make sure it's all staying appropriate, not on such a public platform 🤔

idk. i saw something just now and it's a view i come across a lot and I just wanted to get my thoughts on it down bc tbh I've always wondered if someone out there has ever thought i might be a Creep for continuing to interact with minors in fandom spaces at my age

#ok back to bed rip

[averykedavra]

i wish that older fandom members, especially “fandom moms,” would act less attacked when minors express uncomfortable feelings abt them. like, yeah, older ppl are allowed to have hobbies and nobody should criticize them, but when you’re an adult (i’m talking post-college) you automatically have a power imbalance with any kid that interacts with you.

and that’s not inherently bad, but it’s not something that u can dismiss just like that. especially when that power has been used and abused tons and tons of times. not to say kids and teenagers can’t do stupid, hurtful shit either. but there’s a specific brand of harm that can be done by an older person who thinks they’re in the right.

i guess i’m saying that kids are allowed to be wary of u. they’re allowed to crack jokes abt “fandom moms” being so old, so out of touch. they’re allowed not to interact with you. it’s not cool to make fun of anyone’s interests, old or not. but i’ve always seen this underlying fear in some of those jokes. get out of here, some are saying. i’m scared of you.

everyone has different boundaries and experiences. there’s no right or wrong way to interact with minors or adults. there’s definitely nothing wrong with being an adult fan. but pls be aware of the power dynamic. pls be aware that many ppl in your position have hurt kids, and that kids--reasonably--don’t want to be hurt again.

when we say “fandom moms are so weird” it’s not a personal attack. when we mock adults with hogwarts houses in their bios, it’s not a personal attack. and when people call out the pattern of older fans being racist/ableist/antisemitic/cult-y, it’s not about you. yes, you might not be any of those things. and it might hurt to feel compared to them.

and yes. anyone is allowed to be a fan. no one should be ousted from a fan space unless they do harm. age doesn’t stop u from enjoying things. but fandom is not a place insulated from the real world. it echoes it. fandom is not always a safe space.

not all adults are bad. not all adults are creepy. but adults are adults, and kids are allowed to see u and step away. they’re allowed to set boundaries. and they’re allowed to crack jokes abt their experiences.

just move on. find ppl who are comfortable around u. and hold other adult fans accountable, because the thing u can do with ur power is use it for good.

#delete later #ugh idk if i even phrased this right #all i'm trying to say is i wish older fans would stop feeling so victimized #when younger fans feel uncomfortable/make jokes abt them #It Is Not About You #Pls #fandom problems #dkjhegfhjks definitely delete later now that i think abt it #anyone can reblog with additions or clarifications #including adults! #and btw like what i mean by Adult isn't like a 19yrold college student #but grown ppl #they're the backbone of fandom in some ways #but they're also sometimes the source of problems #and Yeah i don't even know #free to rb #long post #avery's argot

[amendments]

Pro vs Anti-shipping opinions from someone who is Neutral...and will get canceled on both sides anyway

It’s fair and 100% ok to deem ships that are problematic, “problematic”, and be uncomfortable with them...and maybe even try to discourage people from shipping them, but you absolutely do not have the right to act like an authoritarian little sh!t and dictate what people can and can’t do. Block and move on.

Proshippers can effectively draw/write/create whatever they want. This is the internet and no matter how much you whine and complain, the internet isn’t going to adopt a pro-censorship stance. However, if you create content for an obviously disgusting pair, you’re going to get criticism, and people are going to find you creepy. You will be judged, even if you’re using your ship as a coping mechanism. No one is free from it.

Criticism, suggestions, and expression of discomfort are NOT BULLYING. If someone doesn’t like your ship, too bad. However, if you’re blatantly telling someone to kay why ess, hurt themselves, giving them some type of violent threat, or are doxxing them, you’re a disgusting person and no better than the people who commit said actions you’re against.

If you’re a proshipper and bullying kids, you’re also apart of the problem. Be the bigger person and block/report.

No, not all proshippers are creeps, some are just people who are anti-censorship, sick of PC culture and ship said ships out of spite, and/or don’t actually like anything bad themselves.

No, not all antis are annoying harassers, stalkers, or minors, some are people who are genuinely concerned about the questionable work you put out or may expose to minors/victims. Also, the lack of restrictions of minors in NSFW spaces is...sus -_-

Yes, there are predators in proship spaces, but there are also predators in antiship spaces, and literally everywhere else on the internet. This isn’t a ship problem, it’s a fandom problem.

Antis who claim that neutral people are just as bad as proshippers, actually push us away. You aren’t making us want to side with you. In fact, you’re doing the opposite. Most people who are neutral/position-less are actually people who really don’t care. Why? Because ships and fandoms don’t engulf our lives, and we actually have more important things to worry about than bullsh!t that strangers online are fighting about.

No, not saying anything or having a position on a topic is not inherently condoning it, it’s just not involving yourself in the problem. -_- It’s hard to really speak about something that’s not on your radar.

No, literally nobody in real life cares, or will care, about this debate. Most people (surprise, surprise) don’t really care about fandoms in general. (Amazing I know). Frankly, I’ve seen people on both sides that are waaaay to invested in this discourse and need to go outside. If you are super passionate about literal internet discourse, go to the park and touch grass.

Antis who are minors, I can genuinely tell you, that no, bosses in the real world really don’t care about what their employees do as hobbies outside of work. If you actually tried to contact employers about NSFW art (of fictional characters) that an employee drew on their own free time, unless you give them actual evidence of them acting inappropriately towards real people, they will ignore you. It is only a concern if that person has actually expressed illegal behavior which could put actual people in danger. (BDSM art of All Might and Deku isn’t going to get someone fired).

Antis, yeah, people will find problematic ships gross, if you tell someone about them. But, unless they are actively involved in internet fandom culture, which the vast majority of people aren’t, they’ll completely forget about it 5 mins later.

Proshippers, no, people in real life don’t care about what you ship in your private life, but if you make your whole identity about your ship, or proshipping, people will think you’re a creep. You’re chronically online. Get a hobby outside of internet discourse.

I will unfollow problematic people, and people who have caused harm, but if you tag me because I’m following a proshipper, simply because they are a proshipper, and have not actually been a perve to real children, I’m not unfollowing them. And if you pester me about it, I will unfollow, block, and report YOU. Who I follow is my business, and I will not tolerate being harassed over Twitter drama. Buzz off.

I will also not unfollow someone who identifies as an anti, or simply criticized your ship if you do not give me evidence of them actually harassing people. I am allowed to have an opinion and engage with people who have similar disapproving opinions. Who I choose to interact with is my business alone.

I’m not un-tweeting a tweet just because a self proclaimed “proshipper” or “anti” tweeted it. Good art is good art, and good takes are good takes.

Some of you overuse the word “p£do” in references to ships. I don’t care how you view it, a ship between an adult and a minor that has a 2-3 year age gap is not p€dop1llic. This age gap is completely common among teenagers in real life, and you’re honestly sheltered if you think that’s automatically predatory. A 16 year old dating an 18 year old is a LOT less worse than a 20 year old dating a 30 year old, and the latter isn’t any less predatory or weird just because they’re both adults.

No, ships between two adults with a very large age gap, are technically not p€doph1llic, either. They may be predatory in nature, and you may perceive them as wrong and gross, but if it ain’t already illegal in real life, then it definitely ain’t on paper.

It doesn’t matter if she’s 1000 years old, we all know what the underlying intention of that character design is, buddy.

Speaking of underlying intentions, there’s a lot of unspoken racism and xenophobia rampant in anti-spaces...like more so than in pro-ship spaces. Racism is everywhere in fandoms, but white, western antishippers are...a particular breed...oozing with arrogance and ethnocentrism.

Thanks for reading my rambling novel if you made it to the end, this is just a venting post. I hate discourse.

#pro ship #anti ship #pro shipping #anti shipping #ship discourse #pro shippers #anti shippers #fandom disk horse #haha #I don't care if i anger you #stay mad #don't like block #fandom #pro shippers aren't oppressed #but neither are antis #this is such a white debate lol #minors aren't oppressed either #boo hoo #oh pooor me

[bearplush]

I completely agree with your tags on that age/tweet post! I've been watching in disbelief and confusion how this topic came back around and a whole wave of black-and-white polemic opinions suddenly popped up on my dash.. I get that gatekeeping is bad and overgeneralizations as well, but also acting like really young groups will be just as comfortable holding a 20y/o fan's hand at a fansign as a 35+ y/o is just unrealistic... kpop has all sorts of weird dynamics and the labels literally make money off of "selling" their idols as imaginary girlfriends and boyfriends, so seeing older stans step into that dynamic can be strange and should be reflected, but of course of course doesn't have to be inherently "evil"... but also, like, I myself as an early 20s person sometimes feel weird stanning people born after 2000, even if I never saw them as "crush material" anyway, so the point that gets me worried is when fans don't think about/reflect that at all (but that counts for young stans as well, especially such that stan significantly older groups)

exactly!!! maybe the twitter op worded it a bit harshly (although if the person i reblogged the post from is correct then it sounds like it may have been a knee-jerk emotional response, and a totally understandable one at that) but as someone who grew up online in fandom spaces and experienced lots of weird shit from adults firsthand, i really feel like now that i'm the adult i owe it to younger fans to prioritize their safety over my own feelings and imo that means recognizing that it can be uncomfortable for teenage/early 20s fans to see people my age and older being obsessed with teenage/early 20s idols, regardless of whether anything truly creepy is going on or not. also you make a really good point about the bf/gf thing, like take the younger members of wayv for example. even if that's not how i view them (putting aside for a moment the fact that im a lesbian lol), the fact remains that a lot of the content they put out is *designed* for me to view them as like fantasy bfs, so i can easily see how it could lead to a weird dynamic (tbh i usually just ignore it cause im clearly not the target audience lol but still). but yeah the internet can make it really easy to forget that the person on the other side of the screen might be significantly older or younger than you (whether we're talking about an idol or a fellow fan) and while im obviously not saying we can all only interact with people +/-3 years of our own age or whatever i think it's something we do need to keep in mind

ummmm anyway so much for me not wanting to talk about this lol but im glad you saw my point and i hope you're having a good day/night!

#i had something else i wanted to mention in the tags but i forgot :( #anyway i reeeeally hope any of that made sense!! #answered #Anonymous

[kai-keda]

So something on twitter got me rambling this to someone who I don’t even know whether or not they’re involved in the same communities as me or not and I kinda just realized this is actually a big problem.

Why are fandom spaces having age wars? Or would it be more appropriate to call it generational wars?

Basically what I’m going on about is how now that I’m 25 years old and have joined and become super involved with a relatively much newer community than any other I’ve been in before I’m seeing a lot of hostility.

Hostility thrown at me by complete strangers.

Okay, so, if you’ve known me for long enough you’d know that I’m used to people not liking me because of actions I did or words I said. Specifically I’m referring to that mega dark time in the Dragon Ball fandom when my mental health was unchecked, I was overly emotional and stupid.

When I say “Hostility being thrown at me by complete strangers” in this context I don’t mean it in that same sense. I mean people who only know my age and that I’m in their fandom.

With my previous fandoms they were things that a lot of adults were in as well because they initially joined said fandom as children themselves. This includes Dragon Ball and Naruto. So I never really had a problem with people hearing my age and running for the hills screaming since they were used to seeing adults. There were also communities with source materials that were geared more towards adults like Trigun.

Heck I was still more often than not on the younger side of any particular group discussion. At most I would be more in the middle of the groups age range and never the oldest.

That is until now.

See I’ve recently gotten really excited, obsessed, hyperfixated or whatever you want to call it with the MCYT content creators. I’m talking of course specifically about the Dream SMP stuff but also the creators individually.

I love the Sleepy Bois Inc group and the Dream Team and Fundy and Ranboo and Niki and BBH and Tubbo and just the whole lot of them in the right contexts honestly.

To me this wasn’t really anything new. I mean, once upon a time I enjoyed Yogscast but I was really young and not involved in the internet’s current world of fandom culture. Also, I never obsessed over them and their story. I was into other things at the time.

When I get really invested in something I tend to immediately go searching for a community to share it with and I’ve started following on tumblr and twitter a lot of wonderful fan-artists and analysts and shitposters and man the lot of you are so great. And I’m also subscribed to a LOT of animators on YouTube. I’ve been leaving as many positive comments ranging from pointing out the finer details of a piece of work to fully emotional responses as I can possibly leave.

And it seems like you guys are really awesome and open and friendly! You guys tend to reply to my comments and even if you don’t (which is totally fair! Don’t feel pressured, my comments are to make you feel good not a trap to make you interact with me!) you’ll leave a like or heck a heart on my YouTube comments to y’all’s animations.

Seeing my positive energy getting returned with positive energy gave me the courage to join some discord servers and I started, of course, with the official ones. Wilbur Soot was the content creator of this group of people that I watched first so of course by this point I was subscribed to him on Twitch. I was also subbed to TommyInnit so I joined their servers. I’m in a few other servers including SAD-ist’s server and Techno’s members only server.

I started out joining vc’s and chatting in text channels but it’s been quite a long time since I’ve done either of those two things (not including a stray opinion here or there being thrown into the DreamSMP Boundaries discord).

I’m pretty sure it’s been since early December since I’ve really interacted in ANY of these servers - including the much smaller non-official fan ones!

Why is that?

Honestly, I got tired of the hostility thrown my way at any mention or reminder of my age.

I’m 25 years old and when people in these servers hear that, a good chunk legitimately feel really awkward.

I was asked not once, not twice, but FOUR TIMES in a single night from FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE in the SAME VOICE CALL “Why are you in a fan server for a sixteen year old Minecraft streamer (referring to TommyInnit) if you’re 25?” with NO trace of irony and with complete seriousness and out of all those times only ONE PERSON defended me because they were in the call for the third instance only for them to leave, someone else to join and it to happen again.

And each time, the call went quiet and everyone waited silently for my answer. They were all legitimately concerned for the fact that I happen to be a fan of a streamer who happens to be younger than me.

And when I pointed out what I THOUGHT was obvious which was “90% of the other streamers he’s with and openly calls friends are also adults including Wilbur who is only one year younger than me and Philza who is seven years OLDER than me” only a portion of people responded with “yeah that’s true.”

The rest said “That’s not the same.”

I tried again to “explain myself” (we’ll get to how shitty THAT is in a minute) by detailing how I just genuinely think Tommy, and Tubbo as well, are fun to watch. They’re entertaining, they’re funny, they’re energetic, they work well off the other streamers and I also find them adorable the same way I find puppies and kittens adorable. Heck, I love referring to Tommy as a Chihuahua because he’s a tiny little child with a really loud bark. It’s funny and cute and that’s the appeal.

That got a few other people to relax but there were still some people who at this point just said “well, I still think it’s weird but whatever.” and continued on only with an awkward air of nervousness around them.

Alright so it’s really important for me to stress that being a fan of a content creator does not equate wanting anything romantic or sexual with them in any capacity and therefore there is nothing inherently “creepy” or predatory about an adult being a fan of a content creator who happens to be a minor. I get that that seems like a hard concept to grasp but it’s true.

I’m sure there’s plenty of musicians and actors y’all absolutely adore who you don’t want to marry and/or bang. Heck, I’m positive there’s a good chunk of you who love Miyazaki films. You love his work, you’re a fan of what he does, of his content and you’re a fan of him yet you don’t want to marry and/or bang him. I’m sure a lot of you also have really close platonic friendships that you enjoy.

Assuming I’m only a fan of Tommy to get closer to him and his fans who are minors for some gross reasons is really shitty. NEVER assume the worst in someone like that. Be cautious around adults on the internet in general, sure, but this particular attitude I’ve described is disgusting.

Anyways, beyond that though this rabbit hole goes deeper.

It’s not just people being concerned that an adult is a fan of a content creator who is a minor. People have actually openly shamed and mocked me for being 25 years old in these other servers. Including the one you have to pay monthly to get into in the first place!

And now I go on twitter and I see a post pointing out how silly it is for minors to push adults out of fandom spaces that are based on content created BY ADULTS and the replies are people arguing FOR THE EXCLUSION OF ADULTS?!?!

HELLO?!?!

Are you guys okay?!?!

How is me being a fan of Philza and wanting to interact with other fans of his weird and creepy?? THE MAN IS LITERALLY SEVEN YEARS OLDER THAN ME AND MARRIED WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!

I heard that there’s been a lot of drama in the JoJo fandom recently where minors are trying to say the whole fandom needs to be purged of adults??? That it’s meant to be a safe space for children and teenagers?? THE ANIME JOJO’S BIZZARE ADVENTURE?!?! DO Y’ALL KNOW HOW OLD THAT FRANCHISE IS?!?! IT’S OLDER THAN SOME OF YOU!!

Should teenagers have safe spaces in fandom where they don’t have to worry about strange adults if they’re uncomfortable with that? Absolutely.

Should adults be shamed and kicked out of fandom as soon as they become an adult? Should “20” be the age where fandom must stop? Absolutely fucking NOT!

I want so bad to make friendships and be a part of a community of people who enjoy these dorky Minecraft streamers as much as I do. It kills me to open Discord, see all the activity in these servers and shy away at the last minute from joining in because of my age.

I’m rusty on this quote so forgive me if it’s not exact but this has been my life motto since I became an adult and accepted my place in fandom. I think a lot of you guys can learn from it:

“When I became an adult I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

- C.S Lewis

#long post #mcyt #might as well tag the fandom in specifically talking about the most #you guys seem like so much fun to talk and hang out with #i want to be a real part of this community #y’all are so nice and awesome until my age is discovered or brought up #fucking hell #and don’t say oh just don’t mention your age #cause then I just feel dishonest and like I’m being fake #fandom #discourse #I guess #Kairi Yajuu rambles #Kairi Yajuu rant

[tinynebula]

hey luki, i'm an idiot but an idiot w a question: so i've been shipping a pairing with an age gap (not like, starker age gap but maybe ~15 years?) and i've know that that's bad and that this probably makes me a bad person but i still kinda can't get over it and now i'm just kinda angry at myself and don't know what to do. also, it's the night before a big exam and i'll only get 4 hours of sleep bc i've been thinking abt this the whole time

i don't think this makes you a bad person, it's just something that's harmful to yourself and potentially others. look, my parents have a 13 year old gap between them and that's not weird or creepy, because my mom was 23 when she met my dad and 25 when they started dating. it's harmful when the younger person is a teenager, or barely legal which is basically still a teen, because that's inherently taking advantage. someone on their 20s is young but they're an adult, with a job, responsibilities to themselves and their families, is probably in college or has finished it. someone who's still in highschool is responsibility wise just a kid. a relationship with an adult in that circumstance it's by nature abusive, because kids don't know better.

i don't think you are a bad person, because after all it's still fiction, but you have to be aware of this, and how teens participating in a fandom that allows this kinds of ships to have a space are normalizing something that can be very harmful to them

[nightcoremoon]

ok so let's talk twilight. girl meets vampire. girl falls in love with vampire. vampire falls in love with girl. girl and vampire start dating. evil vampire wants to eat girl. vampire kills evil vampire.

new moon. vampire leaves girl. girl gets depressed. girl rebounds with werewolf. werewolf wants to fuck girl. werewolf realizes he's the rebound. werewolf leaves girl. girl seemingly attempts suicide. vampire learns about this and attempts suicide. girl goes to tell him she's not dead. vampire king gives a warning.

eclipse. vampire and girl are back together. evil vampire girlfriend wants revenge. evil vampire girlfriend makes evil vampire army. vampires and werewolves kill evil vampire and army. vampire king gives another warning. vampire marries girl.

breaking dawn. vampire and girl get married. and fuck. girl gets pregnant. baby will kill girl. but abortion is ~evil~. girl dies and gets turned into vampire. werewolf wants to fuck the baby vampire. vampire king shows up to kill the baby. it was a big misunderstanding lol. happily ever after except for the people who died.

that's the gist of things for anyone who doesn't remember.

ok so there's two groups of people. team edward, people who are satisfied with the canon. team jacob, people who say "fuck that, girl should be with werewolf instead". and many people on team jacob proceed to say that team edward all condone pedophilia and stalking and other terrible things. fandom wars happened. and in the end, most people moved on.

...

but not me.

now, I wasn't an obsessed super fan. I thought the first book was boring as shit until the second half. it took me a month to read the first half and three days to read the second half. I read the entire second in literally one day. the entire third in like 3 days. and the entire fourth in like 5. I watched all the movies in theaters. but none of this was by choice. my mom and my several sisters basically made me, but it was okay I guess. personally my fandom progression started with final fantasy 12. it moved into eragon, death note, jak and daxter, avatar the last airbender, invader zim, tales of symphonia, a dash of harry potter, sly cooper, my little pony friendship is magic, dead space, red vs blue, twokinds, resident evil, etc. I'm not in the twilight fandom by choice, but I know all the lore and trivia so fuck it. I might as well be.

I'm team edward.

I know what you're thinking. "but he's 100 years old trying to fuck a teenager! he watched her sleep! he almost killed her drinking her blood! he made her suicidal and depressed! he was super jealous and possessive whenever jacob was around! he broke her bones when they had sex! he impregated her with a monster baby that killed her! HE IS TEH EVILEST EVAR!!1"

let's take this one piece at a time.

1- he didn't try to fuck her. she tried to fuck him. but he said not until she's a full grown adult capable of making her own decisions, and not until marriage ~because premarital sex is wrong~

2- yeah watching her sleep was a little creepy but we can attribute that to stephenie meyer thought it was romantic because she's a dumb white mormon cultist

3- he is a VAMPIRE, and not by choice. and it was either suck the poison out of bella or let her become a vampire. which he didn't want to happen because ~being a vampire sucks 🥁~ so yeah he saved her life. and he managed to not drain her dry and kill her even though her blood is so goddamn delicious because she's a fucking mary sue

4- he didn't make her suicidal and depressed by leaving the country so she didn't get in any life threatening situations like being around jasper who has the self control of a fat kid in a twinkie factory. bella just took the breakup really really badly, and if someone reacts badly to a breakup, it's on THEM, not the other person. saying any differently is, what's the word, toxic and clingy. her emotional instability for plot is just indicative of the author's inherent misogyny (which makes sense, as dumbass mormon cultists are rife with the stuff)

5- he was not jealous and possessive. JACOB was the one who was toxic, since "that cold one will TAKE MY BELLA AWAY FROM ME". jacob wanted bella for himself because he had a crush on her since they were kids, and it was a super unhealthy obsession. edward could read his thoughts and was pissed; consider his backstory in hearing potential rapists' thoughts and killing them. but edward couldn't kill jacob because he was bella's friend. nothing more, though, and jacob fumed in his nice guy fedora

6- again, edward is a VAMPIRE, and a horny bastard at that, because he is a gentleman and therefore probably was a virgin too. he even told bella countless times that it would happen but bella thought it was #WORTH to get some of that hot vampire dick. I guess she's into some super kinky shit. no wonder 50 shades of grey made sense as a twilight fanfiction. anyway, bella seems to have fully consented, otherwise she's the world's most unreliable narrator.

7- the monster baby plot arc was propaganda against female bodily autonomy because "teh babby haz a SOUL and abortion is MURDER even tho she'll LITERALLY DIE otherwise but hey backwoods redneck mormon values are more important than the lives of women, right? anyway, ironically enough, he respected her bodily autonomy by not fixing the mistake he didn't think could happen (uterus vampires can't get pregnant but dick vampires can get other people pregnant? NANI, THE FUCK???) because bella didn't consent to him killing the fetus that was literally breaking her bones from inside since ~abortion is wrooOOoong~

and now, counterpoint.

...and counter-counterpoint.

"edward groomed bella" edward's main focus when she was 16 was to not kill her and drink the delicious cherry fanta, and his main focus at 17 was to make sure she didn't die and that nobody else killed her and drank her delicious cherry fanta, and only when she was a full ass adult was he like "alright fine you wanna marry me sooooo bad here's ur fuckin diamond ring". yeah they made out but like, consider that a FUCKING MORMON WROTE THIS BOOK. one can't fault a character for the dumbassery of the author. that's why in this house we stan james potter. and besides, a few years ago whilst playing truth or dare I at 21 was dared to kiss a 17 year old and I did- granted I didn't know he was 17 at the time but that doesn't even matter because granted edward was a lot older than 21, but granted that doesn't even matter anyways because you know how many teenage girls would make out with oscar wilde, keanu reeves, chris evans, or danny devito jason momoa if they had the chance? I know I would have. it isn't necessarily sexual unless you want it to be. besides, the argument could be made that brain development stops when you become a vampire, considering their body stops developing too. technically edward had the brain and body of a 17 year old, he was just 17 for a long time. so any way you slice it, there are acceptable explanations justifying this in the magic fantasy land of what-ifs and JUST BAD WRITING.

we good?

now let's tackle jacob.

he demanded she "choose" him over edward. he was just as childish and petty as mike. oh, poor mike. he was just too dumb. SWM be like. anyway, he literally abandoned her, his friend, because she wouldn't fuck him, when she needed her best friend the most. because that's who jacob was to her. he was her best friend. she kinda ignored him because edward is smexy and it overpowered her tiny teenage girl brain, or at least that's the author's excuse (yay for internalized misogyny). when they were in the mountains and he was keeping her from dying of hypothermia edward literally had to ask him to stop thinking about fucking her. while she was unconscious. which is kinda rapey. and then to top it all off, he wanted to fuck her baby daughter. so jacob is literally every single thing people called edward. he is jealous, possessive, creepy, obsessed with bella, and a whole bunch of other stereotypes associated with brown skinned man wanting to fuck white skinned women.

...

...

...

oh dear god.

wow I can't believe that the white woman who took an existing native american tribe and rewrote their culture to fit her vampire love story for white girls to have a sexy ~exotic~ savage feral werewolf boy in the love triangle turned out to be a racist all along.

so ideally, jacob would be the ideal partner for bella. lore-wise as well. bella and jacob grow old together in their plain regular normal human lives (and hopefully bella's face doesn't get clawed off like sam and leah BIG OOF FOR THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE), edward and tanya get married like they were supposed to do all along and gallivant off and do vampire things, all that jazz. edward isn't creepy and weird, bella isn't a magic mary sue with a magic fucking jean grey mind shield, jacob isnt an asshole.

but after reading the books and the evidence provided, I cannot in good conscience be team jacob over team edward.

thank you for your time.

fuck stephenie meyer.

and fuck all the dudebros who dog on girls for liking twilight anyways, as if dudebros don't watch and consume shitty media all the time.

[jinlian]

i dont know if you're the right person to come to but i kind of have some thoughts on fandom women writing m/m sex. im def. not saying women can't write it (esp. considering theres a whole industry filled with men fetishizing lesbians, but thats for another time) but if all they talk and focus on is the sexual aspect and dont care abt anything else, it feels almost fetishy and dehumanizing? there's intersectionality btwn how women creators and gay people are treated but i cant quite grasp it.

i also forgot to mention in the last ask but i feel like the line btwn fetishizing and exploring can be awfully blurry and it’s kind of hard for me to consume media as a result. it’s weird, but i feel the need to look at the person and see what context it’s written in, what their background is, etc. i want to be critical of what im consuming and the person who created it and how im consuming but it’s just kinda weird and causes cognitive dissonance a little. sorry for the ramble.

hey, so, there’s definitely a lot that can be said on this topic! there’s a lot to unpack in your ask both regarding the fetishization thing and how you’re interacting with media. i think what you’re doing is important and you’ve definitely got the right idea but i can also really see where the dissonance comes in a little bit. it’s tough, because you sort of have to walk the line between “everything we consume is problematic, sometimes i just need to enjoy things” and “media doesn’t exist in a vacuum and we need to criticize things when they deserve it.” which – yeah, is a tough line to walk! 

i think at a certain point it unfortunately comes down to individual judgement. i can think jk rowling is pretty shitty while still loving harry potter and what i was able to take from it as a child, while still acknowledging she could have pushed the envelope further. i’m having a much more difficult time knowing what to do with my feelings about rurouni kenshin. et cetera. basically, i try to enjoy things while still being willing to talk about the bad shit, but if i’m feeling like the harmful things way outnumber the good then i’m out of there.

so unfortunately all i can tell you about how you’re consuming media is just to  to use your best judgement. we all need to let ourselves enjoy things. but enjoyment and criticism can and need to go hand in hand. so – just keep being conscious of it. engage and have fun, step back when you feel you need to do that. 

when it comes down it, cishet women writing m/m sex is always going to send off a lot more danger bells to me than wlw doing it. which isn’t to say that all straight women shipping and writing m/m ships are bad, because that’s definitely not true! the answer isn’t to desexualize the ship completely any more than it is to point fingers at any straight girl daring to ship two men together, both options are bad. i’ve definitely seen straight women fans interacting with victuuri for example in a way i felt was very genuine and heartfelt and not creepy at all, and that’s awesome. the weirdness comes in context.

because you’re right – there’s a lot of bad crap out there that does come off as dehumanizing. the fics that completely toss aside any semblance of characterization for the “hot smut” or have clearly done no research into how (cis) gay men have sex and really are just there to focus on the banging. there’s way too much of that – and they’re often the most popular things in fandom (mafia aus, nympho yuuri, that rival au, etc). it’s gross, it’s uncomfortable. so i agree w you.

it gets complicated when you introduce 13-14 year olds to fan spaces occupied by 30-40 y/o women who are producing some of this content. it’s difficult to blame teens when adults should know better. yes, adults belong in fandom spaces. i’m an adult, i like having fun with nerdy things too! but adults also have a responsibility not to be fucking weird about it. younger people will try to emulate the older ppl and get wrapped up in fandom culture, which perpetuates itself, and it’s just a big cycle. sex in fanworks is fine, it really is. but adults in particular need to start doing some critical thinking about who’s sharing fandom space as well as whom their content might be harming.

so there’s an exploration aspect of young teens testing out sexual content, which isn’t inherently bad, but adults producing some of this gross fetishy “what is characterization i just want hot inaccurate unsafe sex smut” should know better. it’s harmful and hurtful. our sexuality does not exist for your entertainment and consumption.

to an extent this can be said of wlw as well, i’ve seen my fair share of it (especially wrt ~omegaverse stuff). this is not to say that trans men and mlm can’t and don’t enjoy this stuff, but they cannot fetishize themselves, that’s totally up to them to create and consume content about their own lives. but there’s an inter-community discussion, as i know there are differing opinions there. which just comes down to this imo: if you’re a cis/cishet woman, just…. think more critically about what you’re doing.

it gets more complicated with wlw i think because we don’t have a lot of stuff that reflects our own stories. i’ve talked a little bit before about how there’s a reason we latch onto male homosocial relationships in media, platonic or otherwise. at least for me, it’s because there’s just a dearth of women in media who even have characters, let alone unique or individual stories, let alone really fleshed out relationships with other women. male relationships are often given so much more depth, exploration, and respect in storylines that i think it’s easy to find ourselves gravitating towards that – especially when we’re looking for relationships of the same gender.

it doesn’t mean that women in media don’t exist or that it excuses any gross things produced by those wlw, because it definitely doesn’t. but i understand why we find those stories compelling. in my experience wlw tend to be more careful and aware of how they’re producing fan content for mlm (though of course not all of us!) simply because the stories feel more personal and they understand how it feels to have their sexuality and identity fetishized for consumption, and are actively trying to avoid it.

none of this ofc applies to every person belonging to each identity, so there are bound to be outliers and aberrations here. that’s fine! i guess this is kind of more of my rambling about general trends and observations.

basically – i think i share your concerns while recognizing that it’s a complicated topic. i like seeing people loving a ship for what it is and wanting to engage with it. gay ppl in particular are looking for stories about ourselves. and all ppl should be fine writing sex and exploring those aspects of relationships in fan content! it just comes down to being aware and responsible and knowing that media and fandom do not exist in a vacuum.

#annanons #anna gets asks

[apollon-hyakinthios]

adults can be in fandom without being predatory towards children... adults being in fandom isn't an inherently bad or creepy thing... predatory people shouldn't be tolerated, but adults simply being in fandom is not inherently predatory. fandom is a creative outlet

one time i knew someone who said it was "creepy" and "weird" if anyone over the age of 30 wrote fanfic or had a tumblr, and i mean, it's no weirder than someone over 30 makes any other type of art or lit because... fanfic and fanart are legit forms of artistic expression... derivative works are legitimate art. fandom is often thought of as childish but it's really not. i think it's great when i see people who are in their 40s or 50s writing fanfic because yknow, people of that age are still people and still like to have fun and express themselves! as long as theyre respectful how is that wrong

by all means, teens who feel uncomfortable with interacting with adults should make that clear and should make sure that their personal spaces dont include adults, and adults should respect that. there's no excuse for predatory behavior in fandom. however, to say that no adults should be in fandom ever is unnecessarily restrictive, and plays on some unrealistic and frankly nasty ideas that fandom is "for kids", that adults should just "grow up" and leave their artistic, creative pursuits behind

#disorganized thoughts or whatever but i really... am uncomfy with this idea

[angels-heap]

I highly recommend ur blog being 17+ or 18+ (15 or 16 would be too low) just to keep the minors away.

I know there’s a non-zero chance that my response to this ask is going to be taken out of context somehow and used to argue that I’m some kind of creepy predator, but I’m answering it anyway because I want to make a point here, and I figure I should be transparent about this now that it’s been brought up. 

If I ran a ns/fw blog or made adult-oriented fan content for a piece of children’s media, I would absolutely do everything in my power to keep children from following me (or even finding out my blog exists; I wouldn’t put stuff in main tags and I’d have the blog set to be unsearchable). But... I don’t run a ns/fw blog, and Half Life is not intended for children, so I don’t feel that I have any social or moral obligation to age-restrict my audience. 

I very rarely post ns/fw content (and when I do, I make sure to tag it), and anyone who spends more than 5 seconds on this blog knows I’m an adult because all this ridiculous discourse forces me to scream that from the rooftops at least 3 times a day. I generally don’t initiate conversations with minors, I respect minors’ DNIs, and I’m careful to maintain appropriate boundaries when minors initiate conversations with me. I also tag ships, heavy topics, and common triggers for filtering purposes. 

I’m doing everything any adult in a fandom should reasonably be expected to do to make sure they aren’t exposing minors to harmful or age-inappropriate content. However, as I’ve said before, people are ultimately responsible for their own fandom experiences, once they’re given the tools (proper tagging, etc.) to be able to do so. Tumblr is a public website that grants its users total anonymity. Its blocking system sucks (and is very easy to circumvent), people don’t have to share their age to engage with other users, and there’s absolutely nothing stopping people from lying about their age in their bio. As a result...

No amount of DNI text, preemptive blocking, reactive blocking, and/or secretive behavior is going to guarantee that minors aren’t seeing my blog. There comes a point where any decisions they make without directly involving me are not my responsibility. 

Also, seeing as I’ve ended up in the middle of the discourse shitstorm, I think there’s something to be said for not going out of my way to prevent minors from hearing the other side of the story, much of which has been posted or shared on my blog. Unlike some people, I haven’t directly reached out to any minors to tell them how they should feel about the discourse (because that would be weird and inappropriate), but I want them to have the option to see the counter-arguments if they choose to seek them out. 

As I’ve said before, intergenerational exchange in fandoms is not inherently dangerous (in fact, it can be very positive and beneficial for all involved!), and while I completely understand and respect why a lot of kids on tumblr prefer to interact only with other people who say they’re kids, I worry about the long-term consequences of that generational isolation. Therefore, I don’t feel inclined to proactively impose it on others in my personal corner of the fandom. 

I’m doing my best to be a model for how non-predatory adults should behave in fandom spaces; hopefully, having experienced that, the handful of minors who follow me will be better equipped to recognize and avoid predatory behavior if they encounter it elsewhere. I mean, this is like bare minimum human decency and fandom etiquette stuff, so I don’t think I’m doing anything particularly noteworthy by not blocking minors from my blog and not being creepy towards them, but I wanted to point that out to underscore my point that there are benefits to allowing for some limited, healthy, consensual intergenerational interaction. 

So, this got long (as usual), but TL;DR: I will not be age-restricting my blog, because its content is not inherently inappropriate for minors and I’m very cognizant of how I engage with younger followers. If that makes you (or anyone else) uncomfortable, feel free to block or unfollow. Same goes for anyone who somehow managed to miss the memo that I am over the age of 18 (I’m in my mid-20s); the block and unfollow buttons are right there. 

#asks #anon #discourse #long post