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psychologicharacters · 27 days

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Myths to Avoid When Writing Torture

Fiction makes, implicitly or explicitly, some kind of argument. A fictional portrayal of a guy simply going for a walk might make the argument that walking is a nice activity to do. This might not be a particularly earth-shattering message, but messages like this are implicit within the literary tools we use in how we portray characters, behavior, settings, and relationships. This underlying argument – a theme – is present in all of fiction. It’s why you’ll often see people make the statement that “all art is political”. And when it comes to torture – a subject which in and of itself has been the topic of political debate for millenia – how we approach the ideas and arguments made within fictional depictions of torture warrant, in my opinion, a degree of care. Torture isn’t just something that happens in movies. It is something that happens today, to real people, on a global scale. It’s not even particularly rare.

The difficulty with the subject of torture specifically is that for the past two decades, the public perception of torture has shifted on a global scale, seen most clearly in how torture is presented in contemporary media, fiction or otherwise. Everybody believes these myths. And getting indoctrinated into having reactionary takes on a topic is nobody’s fault, considering that almost every source outside of academia feeds you misinformation. But that’s, y’know, kinda why I made this blog: in the hopes that I might be able to get people to consider what ideas they’re presenting in their writing.

I want to start out by briefly reitorating some basics of how torture apologia typically works within political discussions, because this very much is relevant to how you can avoid accidentally sending the wrong message.

The first thing you need to understand is that the real-life debate surrounding torture isn’t framed in terms of whether or not torture is good or bad – everybody, including torturers themselves, will concede that it is bad. The more insidious argument is that torture is useful for achieving certain goals, and that it is therefore justified in extreme emergencies. Not only does this argument try to soften the usually rigid negative framing of torture in moral discussions, but it also seeks to poke holes in the international laws which ban the use of torture outright. It’s a moral, political and legal argument all wrapped up in one reactionary package. For this reason, having the theme of “torture is bad” doesn’t always mean a piece of writing isn’t making use of torture apologia. “Torture is useful” serves that goal just fine.

Torture is also often discussed in terms of civility – not the civility of the torturers, but the civility of the victims. It’s the argument that the people who are being tortured are bad people, and therefore don’t warrant the respect and dignity we usually offer to other human beings; they are so bad, essentially, that it’s fine for us civilized people to war crime them. Whenever I’ve encountered this argument, it has usually been presented in a way that was, shall we say, sussy as fuck – some even give up the pretense and straight up call their victims “savages” or “degenerates”. I hope I don’t need to explain why this line of thinking is insane, but in any case, it’s just my way of getting you to consider that a lot of the myths surrounding torture are rooted in broader sociopolitical issues, often racism and religious discrimination, and historically, most often within the context of colonialism.

With that in mind, let’s get into the myths, starting with the most obvious one.

"Torture for information works."

Every study I’ve read has concluded that torture is counterproductive when it comes to gathering intel from reluctant sources. Under severe pain or distress, victims are more focused on saying whatever they think the torturer wants to hear to make the torture stop, as opposed to providing accurate information. On a neurophysiological level, severe pain or distress actually interferes with the pathways of the brain relating to long- and short-term memory; this means that torture in and of itself is likely to destroy the very evidence it sets out to gather. Furthermore, victims are less likely to cooperate if subjected to physical abuse, including torture, and nothing in the infliction of pain itself works as some kind of truth serum. Lying and defiance are more likely under torture.

To a large minority of people, portraying torture as a reliable tool for gathering accurate information will make the implicit argument that torture, although usually bad, can hold utilitarian value in certain exceptional cases. I’ve written about this more in depth here.

"Under torture, everyone cooperates sooner or later."

French prosecutors used torture in the events leading up to the French revolution, as a way to gain forced confessions from suspects. Their failures and successes were jotted down, leading us with a pretty revealing insight – the highest success rate for gathering forced confessions was in Toulouse, an exceptionally high 14%. In Paris, only 3% of suspects cooperated long enough to sign their name – the rest did not. This is one of the primary reasons that the French criminal justice system eventually dropped using torture for intelligentsia. To quote Darius Rejali, who wrote The Book on torture: “Torture the clumsiest method available to organizations.”

So no, not everybody talks – in fact, rough estimate, 90% of torture victims never do. Defiance is by far the norm with torture.

"When the bad guy does it, it’s torture – when the good guy does it, it’s a tough, but morally justifiable decision."

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Heroes of stories, especially in the action genre, often engage in the use of torture for information, usually following the framework of the ticking bomb scenario, a thought experiment based on the false notion that torture works as an interrogation method. Here, torture is turned into a heroicact, one that speaks to the toughness of the person who uses it. Ask yourself if you want to frame torturers though this lens – because if you do, you are literally justifying the act torture, and, y’know, you do you, but I am gonna call you stupid and reactionary. Torture done by a “good” person is just as abhorrent as torture done by anybody else.

"Some methods of torture are less severe than others."

This myth stems from governments trying to downplay the use of certain methods of torture, and usually goes hand in hand with euphemistic redefinitions of the concept, such as the CIA’s “enhanced interrogation methods,” also known as “torture lite,” or the Israeli “coercive interrogation.” The methods that have been proposed in this supposed less severe category of torture includes stimulated drowning, also known as waterboarding, as well as caning, beatings, limbs being broken with clubs, sleep deprivation, stress positions (ex. forcing a person to crouch against a wall for extended periods of time,) mock executions, sexual assault, and more. If these things all just sound like torture to you, it’s because they are. There is zero evidence to suggest that any torture methods, including those that leave no physical mark on the body, have less severe outcomes than those that do not – on the contrary, non-physical torture methods, including mock executions, or witnessing the torture of a loved one, have been ranked by victims as causing equal amounts of psychological distress as physical torture.

"Torture only causes harm to the person who is being tortured."

This is incredibly unrealistic. Torture is an act that is destructive in all directions, causing trauma to victims, their family, witnesses, and even torturers themselves. It disintegrates the structure of the organizations that use it, it breeds resentment and hatred in the communities around it, and it radicalizes people into extremism. Pretending that consequences like this don’t exist isn’t torture apologia per se, but if your aim is to show the realistic outcomes of torture, these are some of the things you need to consider.

Torture is portrayed as “scientific”; torturers are “skilled” in the “art” of torture.

The most common methods of torture in use today are: hitting people, sleep deprivation, and starvation. These don’t require a whole lot of brain power to conjure up, in fact the infliction of intense suffering is very straightforward. Human beings are full of nerves. Stick a knife anywhere, and I’d be more impressed if it didn’t cause pain.

Not to mention, portraying torture as “scientific” or something that “requires technical skill” makes the implicit argument that torture works for its intended use, here under the condition that you should at least do it right – which brings us right back to that utilitarian fallacy.

"Torturers are expert interrogators, and possess an extraordinary ability to detect lies in their victims."

Studies have been done on the ability of police officers to detect lies for about four decades now. The average person will have a 57% accuracy rate, meaning they’re barely better at spotting deception than a coin toss. For police officers, the highest estimate is around 65% - but it might also be as low as 45%, meaning they might be less accurate than a coin toss – even though police officers tend to think of themselves as exceptional at spotting deception. The same trend is seen in torturers.

In fact, this myth in particular originated from torturers’ accounts of how they conceptualize themselves, which is not only false, but also cringe. When an interrogator starts making use of torture, their focus tends to shift away from gathering reliable information, and more towards “perfecting” the infliction of pain, which means that over time, those interrogative skills are substantially degraded – they are terrible interrogators. So torturers are no better at spotting lies than your average person; they might actually be worse. They can’t read minds, and they don’t possess some secret mystical knowledge about the psychology of their victims.

"You can train someone to resist torture."

Loads of intelligence agencies and revolutionary groups around the world have published material that supposedly serves as manuals for resisting torture, but the truth is, torture is so extreme, there really is no way to prepare or train someone to “resist” it; this is something that even the CIA has acknowledged. Everybody individual’s reaction to pain will be different. There is no way to predict how torture will affect anyone, much less give them instructions beforehand that will somehow magically negate those effects.

"Brainwashing through torture works."

Torturers can’t change the emotional framework of a person through the infliction of pain. They cannot change the strongly held beliefs and opinions held by their victims through the infliction of pain. They can’t erase someone’s entire personality or make them a ‘blank slate’ through the infliction of pain. They can’t predict how a victim responds to torture, much less direct that response to their own benefit. This is not how pain works.

This is not only an implicit argument for the usefulness of torture to change someone’s behavior or force religious conversions, but the myth that torturers have some form of control of their victims even after the torture has ended is also used in real life to paint survivors as dangerous or unstable, and thereby bar them from treatment and aid, and even to allow access into countries to escape the circumstances that facilitated their torture in the first place. That last point is why you often see the advocacy of refugee rights in organizations that work to prevent torture; these two branches of activism have a huge overlap.

Torture victims cannot be controlled by their torturers. Brainwashing isn’t real.

"Stockholm syndrome is real."

This is a derivative of the brainwashing myth, which means all the connotations previously mentioned remain, but as a cherry on top, Stockholm syndrome as a trope can also serve as an implicit argument for the utility of domestic abuse. So that’s cool.

If you deliberately inflict suffering on someone, that is guaranteed to make that person dislike you. In real life, torture survivors not only tend to be extremely resentful of their torturers, but they also tend to be resentful of anyone belonging to the same demographic as their torturers, whether that be ethnicity, nationality, or even gender or general appearance. Like I said, torture radicalizes people.

"Torture makes people obedient."

Any physical abuse or neglect, including bad cell conditions, access to medical aid, decent food and clean water, is likely to breed resentment in victims and makes them far more reluctant to cooperate with their aggressors. With torture, defiance is the norm, by far. You saw this on a larger scale in the war on terror, for example – turns out that carpet bombing a country to deter terrorism only radicalizes the civilian population, producing more terrorists. No form of violence exists that will make a person particularly eager to shut up and do what you want them to do. It will just make them hate you.

The notion that torture makes people obedient is also an implicit argument for the use of corporal punishment or as crime deterrence, something that along with capital punishment has repeatedly been proven false by sociological studies. People just do not function like this. If you want to create obedience in your story – violence is the last thing you should use.

"People “break” under torture."

Victims of torture sometimes make the conscious decision to do what their torturer wants them to do, and this often serves as a means to buy enough time to plan an escape, or mount up whatever act of defiance they can manage. Sometimes they simply do it to get the torture to stop – this, too, is a tough, conscious decision. If you want to consider this a form of “breaking”, by all means go ahead, but implying personal weakness or lack of willpower in torture victims rubs me the wrong way. I personally see it as a rational choice made by a person who is in an otherwise impossible situation.

"Torture survivors are “broken”."

Torture certainly can lead to extreme psychological distress, but again, the term “broken” here implicitly makes the argument that torture victims simply lacked the mental fortitude to withstand their trauma. In my opinion, there’s a certain degree of victim blaming involved with framing torture survivors in this way, and certainly, it’s a framing that inherently strips away their agency.

Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is the fact “brokenness” implies a degree of permanence and rigidity to human beings that simply isn’t there, as if we are solid objects that, once shattered, can never regain the function we once had. It’s a nitpick, but I view people as organic things, capable of healing and growth – not as glassware.

Conclusion

I’d wager that while reading this, a good portion of you recognized some of these myths from depictions of torture in fiction; that’s not particularly surprising to me. These myths aren’t just widespread, they’ve been engrained in the global public perception of torture by decades of political debate and government propaganda, and as a result, have seeped into popular culture.

Torture isn’t rare, and neither is torture apologia. According to Amnesty International, 31% of the global population believes that torture is justified “in some cases”; as of 2014, AI had also reported on torture or other ill treatment in 141 different countries, despite the fact that torture is internationally recognized as a war crime.

In an ideal world, the subject of torture in fiction is treated with the same due diligence with which we have learned to portray subjects like homophobia, sexual assault, and racism; because, to be fair, all of these things have the capacity to intersect, and very often do. The first step in that regard is to spread awareness about how torture actually functions, which is what I hope to slowly start doing on this blog. At the very least, I hope I can make people more aware of how they choose to portray torture in their writing.

#torture #psychology #characters #media #tv #writing #thank u op #this is interesting and needed

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psychologicharacters · 2 months

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Timeline of Every Anecdote from Dean's Childhood in Supernatural

This is super open to feedback and suggestions if I missed something. This also includes a few quotes and things from a couple of the tie-in novels where they don't conflict with canon.

Content notes: death, child abuse, alcohol

1983

Dean is 4

John & Mary used to call Dean their “little piglet” because he liked to eat so much. [1]

Dean played T-ball. [2]

Mouse Trap is Dean's favorite game. [3]

Mary would feed Dean tomato-rice soup when he was sick. [4]

Mary would sing "Hey Jude" as a lullaby. [5]

Dean really likes Mary's meatloaf. He doesn't know she gets it from Piggly Wiggly. [6]

Between May and November John and Mary had a fight and John left home for a few days. [7]

November 2 - Mary Winchester dies, Sam is 6 months old.

November 6 - Mary Winchester's funeral. Her uncle arranges a headstone even though she doesn't have a body. [8] John Doesn't go. [9]

Before November 16 – They're staying with friends, Mike and Kate. [8] John Meets Missouri. [11]

November 16 – John walks out of Mike & Kate's. Takes boys to Julie's. Goes to see Missouri. Julie gets killed. They leave Lawrence. [12] “Got the hell out of Lawrence. If I never go back, it'll be too soon. Not for Dean, though. The first thing he wanted to know was when we would go remember a home [sic]. But we don't have a home anymore, Dean. The sooner you get used to that, the better.” [13]

John leaves a box of pictures in the basement of the house. [14]

November 20 – Dean sees John kill a shapeshifter. [15] “Dean walked out of the roadhouse right when I put the final bullet into the shape-shifter's head. And he said, 'Why'd you kill him, Dad?'” [16]

November 21 – Boys are with Pam & Bill in Elgin. John's first night away from them. [17] “Here's what I wish I could say to Dean – Your brother's too young to understand any of this, but you're beginning to. And that scares me. Since your mother died, I've seen unspeakable things, and now you've seen them and that's my fault.... Until then, I can only pray that you're strong enough to look after Sam. One of us has to be.” [18]

November 25 – John meets Pastor Jim. [19]

November 29 – John gets the boys from Elgin & leaves. [20]

December - Dean still hardly talks. He never budges from John's side – "or from his brother. Every morning, Dean is inside the crib, arms wrapped around baby Sam. Like he’s trying to protect him from whatever is out there in the night. [21]

December 11 - Sammy has finally started sleeping through the night, and now that Dean shares a bed with him, he’s out like a light as well. [22]

December 25 - "a crooked two foot tall plastic tree, a bunch of junk food stuffed in the stockings, and a pile of sports equipment for the boys… football, basketball, soccer." [23]

December 29 - “Dean hasn't been the same since he saw me kill that shape-shifter. I don't know how to talk to him about it. He's not even five years old. Most kids his age don't even have a clear idea what death is, and he's seen it up close and personal. What do I say to him? How old does he have to be before I tell him the truth?”[24]

13.21 (okay this is technically in a dream of Sam's)

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/John%27s_Journal_(diary_entries)

14.17

5.13

12.2

5.16

2.04

"John's Winchester's Journal" by Alex Irvine

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/John%27s_Journal_(diary_entries)

John's Journal

1.09

John's Journal

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/John%27s_Journal_(diary_entries) & John's Journal

John's Journal

1984

Dean is 5

“I realized I can't leave [Dean] in school... I know he should be able to run around with other kids, who don't know how to field-strip the Browning. Well, Dean doesn't either, yet. But he's learning. He's got a talent for guns. I can see it already. And he'll need it.” [1]

May 2 – John meets Daniel Elkins. [2]

May 17 - “Sammy took his first steps yesterday. He walked toward Dean, then fell flat on his face and started crying. Life is tough, kid. Do I sound like a proud dad? I am.” [3]

1-3. John's Journal

1985

Dean is 6

January 24 - “It's been more than a year since he saw me kill a shape-shifter. He doesn't talk about it anymore. And he's stopped asking when he's going to go to school. Maybe this year, now that he's a little older, now that he knows a little more about things. I've been teaching him. Not the worst stuff, but enough so he knows that there are things that go bump in the night.” [1]

September 7 – Dean's first day of school. [2] “He asked on the way in whether kids in school learned the same stuff he'd been learning. I had to tell him that maybe it wasn't a good idea for him to talk about Dad's job on the playground. He came home on the top of the world, and he brought me worksheets with the names of the different parts of a fish...” [3]

November 2 - “Dean saw something on my face, or maybe it was just that he knew what day it is. When I got here, he came up to me and asked if I'd had a tough hunt. I couldn't talk for a minute.” [4]

November 14 – John takes Dean shooting the first time. “Took Dean shooting. If he's big enough to try to comfort me, he's big enough to start learning the tools of the trade. I only let him fire the .22, but he is a deadeye marksman. My drill sergeant would have taken him over me in a second. Times like this, I sure am proud of my boy. I have a feeling it will be different with Sammy. Maybe he's just too young to show it, but I don't think he's got the same kind of killer instinct.” [5] John takes Dean out shooting for the first time, using bottles as target practice. According to Dean, he "bullseyed every one of them." Dean remembers this story as him being “6 or 7." Dean cites this story as one of the fonder memories of his father. [6]

Rufus spent the whole year being nice. It was the worst year of his life.

1-5. John's Journal

6. 2.06

1986

Dean is 7. “For his seventh birthday, I took Dean shooting again. He wanted to fire one of the big guns – that's what he called them. I let him shoot the Browning, but I steadied his hands. Sammy wanted me to help him make Dean a card.” [1]

Dean starts having a crush on Daisy Duke. [2]

April 16 – Bill Harvelle dies. [3]

May 2 - “Sammy is three years old today. We celebrated with ice-cream cake. He was still wearing most of it when he fell asleep. Dean's sleeping too, the two of them in the same bed. The room only has one bed. I'll sleep on the floor... Some nights it's enough to watch them sleep, and know that if they start having a nightmare, I'll be right there to stop it.” [4]

September 5 – Dean starts second grade. “I watch him like a hawk. He makes me swear that I'll take good care of Sammy before he'll go to school. God, I love that kid.... Sammy's a very different kid. He hasn't taken to the idea of hunting bad guys, and he's still too young to really understand what it means to avenge his mother.” [5]

November 2 – “Dean watches his little brother like a hawk every minute, with an expression on his face that says he's willing to die to keep Sammy safe. [Mary] doesn't know how it tears me up inside to see that expression, and to know that it's there because I have drilled it into Dean that Sammy is his responsibility. He's eight [sic] years old, and I've told him his brother's life is in his hands. Mary, I didn't have any right to do that. But what else could I do?” [6]

John began the masked vampire case - looking into killings and kidnappings along Route 77. [7]

John's Journal

11.13

2.06, 2.14 & John's Journal

John's Journal

15.20

1987

Dean is 8

January 24 - Dean's school has a party for him then John takes them to Chuck E. Cheese's. [1]

John takes Dean and Sam on a donkey ride at the Grand Canyon. Dean’s donkey is very flatulent which Sam finds very funny. [2]

May 2 – John has to pull Dean out of school because a demon knows where they are. “Dean understands.” [3]

May 17 - “I'm starting to figure out you can move a kid from school to school every month, and the schools deal with it because they have to. A part of me wonders how the kids deal with it. But sons have to be soldiers. And soldiers adapt.” [4]

July 13 – A hunt goes bad for John in Portland, Maine. “We were almost to the New Hampshire state line and I'd told Dean a little about what had happened, because I was so frustrated and ashamed that I had to talk to someone. Sammy was asleep the whole time. Then Dean asked me one of those killer questions that little kids come up with. 'Dad,' he says, 'Won't the manitou go after other people now?' That's a hard thing to face. Not that he asked the question, or that he was right, but that he had a better sense of right and wrong than I did.” [5]

November 2 - “Dean asked me today what she looked like. He never talks about her on any other day but this one. I couldn't even show him a picture, so I told him what you tell a boy who asks about his dead mother. I told him that she was beautiful and kind and she loved him and Sammy more than anything in the world.” [6]

Dean has begun hunting. [7]

John's Journal

8.21

John's Journal

11.08

1988

Dean is 9

January 24 - “We're on our third move, so he might not finish third grade. He calls himself the New Kid all the time. He's been to three schools already this year. Who knows how many more.” [1]

May 2 - John is hunting a Shtriga in Wisconsin when he leaves Sam and Dean alone in a hotel room. Dean gets bored and goes out and comes back to find the Shtriga attacking Sammy. John returns in time to scare the Shtriga off. [2] “I could blame Dean, but it's my fault. There's enough blame to go around. I missed the kill, and I left Dean watching Sam, and he couldn't pull the trigger when he needed to. I haven't taught him well enough. If he is weak like that again, my boys will die... but what kind of father am I to put my a nine-year-old boy in a situation where he might have to kill to protect his brother? I'm the kind of father I have to be. I'm the kind of father who teaches his boys that no man or monster can kill their mother and get away with it.” [3]

They know Pastor Jim by this point. [4]

Dean and Sam (5) were playing dress up as Batman and Superman and jump of the roof of a shed. Sam breaks his arm and Dean took him to the E.R. on the handlebars of his bike. [5]

May – John knows Bobby by now. [6]

December 5 - “Dean's teacher called to tell me that he got a subscription to Weekly World News, and had it delivered to school. How is he paying for it? I could ask him, but he's already too sharp to give me a straight answer. And I could force him to, but there's no point. If that makes him feel more at him in this world...” [7] (Dean later misremembers the name of the newspaper.[8])

At some point before now Dean is given his first beer by Fred Jones in Salt Lake City. [9]

John's Journal

1.18

John's Journal

1.18

9.15 (mentioned again in 11.08)

John's Journal

2.03

8.08. He also apparently gives Sam his first beer too but it's unlikely it was this same time?

1989

Dean is 10

January 24 - “Dean turns ten today. Regan out of office.” [1]

Dean knows how to drive. [2] “Not young like I was when he actually taught me how to drive.” [3] (If Sam learned to drive by 9 (see 1992), it stands to reason Dean would have learned at least that early if not sooner.)

“When I was 10, I got my first B&E from borrowing some family's pay-per-view so I could watch the cage match between you and the Tower of Power.” [4]

May 2 – Sam turns six. John sends him to kindergarten. “He's such a different kid than Dean. Quiet, watchful. He's learned that there are things to fear in the world, but where Dean wants to fight them, you get the sense that Sammy watches, learns.” [5]

July 4 – Dean & Sam are in a day camp. Staying nights with Pastor Jim – camping in his yard. “On the fifth day of the camp, Dean was canoeing through an easy rapids on the Blue Earth River. Things went bad. Dean swore to me when he came back that he'd seen something – only he said 'someone' – capsize the canoe. I didn't think about it too much... until the next week when another canoe went over and the counselor paddling it died.” John pulls them from camp. [6]

Dean: "You couldn't been more than 5— you just started asking questions. How come we didn't have a mom? Why do we always have to move around? Where'd Dad go when he'd take off for days at a time? I remember I begged you, "Quit asking, Sammy. Man, you don't want to know.... I just wanted you to be a kid... Just for a little while longer. I always tried to protect you... Keep you safe... Dad didn't even have to tell me. It was just always my responsibility, you know? It's like I had one job... I had one job..." [7]

November 2 - “Today I overheard the boys talking about her, about her death. Sammy's old enough to be asking hard questions, and I think that's making Dean think about some things that he'd put away until now. He's a tough little kid, Dean. Like me. But he's also like me in the way he holds things in. Now his little brother is asking him things and he's got to figure out a way to protect Sammy while Sammy's questions put him through the emotional wringer all over again.” [8]

Bobby takes Dean to play catch instead of “practice with the double-barrel” as John had instructed Dean. In the flash back Rufus guesses the year is around 1989. “No, we didn't shoot rifles, as a matter of fact. We threw a ball around. He's a kid, John. They both are. They're entitled.... Yeah, I know I ain't their dad.” Bobby hangs up and throws the phone down. [9]

John's Journal

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Origins_1

11.04

11.15

John's Journal

2.22

John's Journal

7.10

1980s General

(i.e. there isn't a specific date mentioned for this but I'm guessing from context that it happened in this decade)

Sam sticks army men into Baby's ashtray. [1]

Dean sticks Legos into the vents. [2]

Dean eating all of Sam's Halloween candy sometime. [3]

John taking them to see World of Wrestling. Sometime before Dean is ten. Dean calls it “one of the nicest things” John ever did. Sam remembers John getting drunk. [4]

John takes Dean fishing. When Dean tells Jack, Jack feels from his tone that it's his happiest memory of John. [5]

Dean telling Sam a stupid joke to distract him from ripping off bandaids when he was little. [6]

The first beer John shared with Dean tasted like "crap". [7]

Sam's memory of Thanksgivings: “We had a bucket of extra-crispy and Dad passed out on the couch. [8]

"I always wanted to be a fireman when I grew up." [9]

Dean says he believed the TV ads about Sea Monkeys having families [10]

Dean mentions a babysitter, Mrs Chancy, who was obsessed with the TV show Dynasty [11], which ran until 1989 when Dean was ten. This could be a lie he's just telling a kid to get him to open up about his babysitter though.

"Alright, here we go. John Winchester's famous cure-all kitchen sink stew. There you go. Enough cayenne pepper in there to burn your lips off, just like Dad used to make."

"You used to read to me, um, when I was little, I— I mean, really little, from that— from that old, uh... Classics Illustrated comic book. You remember that? ... Knights of the Round Table. Had all of King Arthur's knights, and they were all on the quest for the Holy Grail. And I remember looking at this picture of Sir Galahad, and, and, and he was kneeling, and— and light streaming over his face..."

5.22

12.11 & 14.04

11.15

14.17

15.01

15.20

5.16

1.22

5.06

8.21

1990

Dean is 11

January 24 - “Dean turns eleven today. He asked for his own gun, and I got him one. A Seecamp LWS .32 automatic, the smallest gun I could find that offered any kind of stopping power. Dean and I poured silver slugs for it ourselves and we loaded it with alternating silver and Winchester hollow-points. He's got it in his pocket now.” [1]

January - John is injured on a hunt in Windom, Minnesota, and goes to the hospital, where he meets Kate Milligan. [2]

May 2 – They've moved around enough that Sam is behind in school. John thinks he should do more like home teaching. “I'd ask Dean to do it, but there's only so much you can pile on a kid. Having Sammy's life in his hands is enough for Dean; he can't be responsible for home-schooling Sammy too.” [3]

September 29 - Adam Milligan is born. [4]

At some point Dean makes a sawed off. He's in sixth grade. [5]

John's Journal

4.19

John's Journal

4.19

3.03

1991

Dean is 12

February – Winchesters go to Albuquerque for a few months. Dean “even talked about wanting to play basketball this spring, but I'm not sure he's serious. I think he's taking cues from me, talking about everyday stuff when I try to keep us in one place. Then when we're on the road again, all he can talk about is hunting.” [1]

March – Sam played a sunbeam in the school play and talking about a science project to enter into the school fair. John working construction. [2]

March 17 – The kids play soccer. [3]

April 1 – John quits his job. Mrs Lyle kidnaps Sam – taking him to a regional science fair but not. “Dean came through. I don't have any words for how proud I am of him. His brother's under some kind of spell, there's a giant monster made out of train parts coming after me, and he has the presence of mind to find the journal and read the exorcism out of it. I almost lost both of my boys today.... How am I going to explain to Sammy that we're not going back to school?... To top it all off, I had to give Sammy a sharp lecture on not talking to strangers. While I was on the phone with Bobby, he just got out of the car and went up to a black Seville. I read him the riot act – Dean too, since he let it happen and it's his job to watch Sammy. All Sammy would say about it was that the guy wanted to know where we were going.” [4]

April 7 – At Bobby's. [5]

April 18 – Silas, friend of Bobby's tells John Sam is special. [6]

April 19 – John taking Dean deer hunting. “It's out of season but the Dakotas are lousy with Deer and Dean needs to pull a trigger to sharpen him up.... The hunting trip was nearly a disaster. Dean missed the shot. I sent him after the buck, a beautiful twelve-pointer, and he dropped the gun when he tripped on the trail. Then out of nowhere comes Sammy, who picks up the gun and lays that big boy out. A seven-year old... well, almost eight. Then he tells me that the deer had taken Dean's gun, and that Sammy had to protect him.” Sam got a ride from the Black Seville to the trail. They go back to see Silas. Dean & John leave for an hour but they see the Seville. Go back to Silas'. John leaves Dean outside with Sam on the porch but John finds Silas butchered inside. [7]

Dean to Bobby: “You used to take us hunting. Remember? Dad had a case, he'd just dump us on you. Shoot, you must have taught us most of the outdoor tracking we know.” Bobby: “Yeah, what I could get to stick. I never could get you little grubs to pull a trigger on a single deer.” Dean: “You’re talking about Bambi, man.” Bobby: “You don't shoot Bambi, jackass. You shoot Bambi's mother.” [8] (This interaction isn't directly referencing the story above but it adds context, I think.)

April 20 – John has kidnapped Anderson, from the Black Seville, stolen the car and Dean killed Anderson. “My oldest son is blooded.” [9]

December 25 - Sam (8) and Dean are at a motel in Broken Bow, Nebraska. John is hunting while Sam and Dean spend Christmas alone together. Sam reads John's Journal and finds out that Mary's death was supernatural, monsters are real, and that John hunts them. He confronts Dean, who confirms it. Sam gives Dean an amulet. [10] John suspects Sam has been reading the journal. Says he left them presents. Dean stole night vision goggles from the gun show in Amarillo to give to John from him & Sam. [11] “They're both starting to act out a little, because we're apart so much. Sam gets resentful and has trouble keeping his temper. Dean tries to fix everything and keep us together as a team.” [12]

John's Journal

7.09

John's Journal

3.08

John's Journal

1992

Dean is 13

January 24 – they celebrate at Mama Janer's in Flint, Michigan. [1]

March 30 - “I thought the lesson was learned back in Wisconsin, but the same thing almost happened again. I left the boys next at the beach in Two Lakes State Park and went looking for a skinwalker, and then it was Ichi all over again. Only this time the skinwalker took on the appearance of a park ranger it had killed, and nearly got the boys to come with it because they trusted the uniform. I still can't completely trust them on a hunt. I took it down, and lit into the two of them. Especially Dean. I have to be hard on him because one of these days I'm not going to be around, and he's the one who's going to have to look out for his brother. He's a badass, though. I thought I was tough when I was thirteen, but Dean would have kicked my ass six ways to Sunday.” [2]

John buys a Playboy featuring Anna-Nicole Smith, both boys end up reading it. [3]

June - Sam tells John he is afraid of the monster in his closet and John gives him a .45. [4] Sam sleeps with it under his pillow and sleeps soundly for 5 nights in a row. [5]

Sam wants to go hunting with Dean. Dean says John said no. John calls to ask Sam to come. [6]

Sam learns to drive when he's nine. [7]

John's Journal

7.22

1.01

John's Journal

11.08

John's Journal (mentioned in 1999)

1993

Dean is 14

January 24 – Dean goes to the movies with "girlfriend" (according to John) Katie. “Quite the ladykiller that kid. Like I was at his age.” John thinks Dean is like him and trouble. “He's like me. If i'm not careful with him, by the time he's twenty he'll have left a trail of kids and arrests warrants all over the country.” [1]

January – Motel Baba Yaga case. Dean says, “I was babysitting you when I was your age”. Sam says "I'm pretty sure that's illegal." Dean sees the nest, a pile of dead kids and has "nightmares about it for the longest time." [2]

May – Sam has been on a soccer team. He had a game and John took him bow hunting instead. They need to learn weapons because “there are demons after Sammy. He needs to know how to fight them, and Dean needs to know how to protect him.” [3]

Summer - John takes them hiking in the Rocky Mountains. One day he fills packs for Sam & Dean and takes them up a mountain and leaves them around dark, telling them to wait for an hour then try to find the way back and that he doesn't expect them for days. They find the packs are full of mostly useless supplies. John says it's a lesson not to trust anyone. [4] (DM me if you want the full quote. It's really sad.)

December 25 – Joplin, Missouri. Sam & Dean give John a book on theosophy which John guesses they stole. [5]

John's Journal

15.16

John's Journal

"Witches Canyon" by Jeff Mariotte, 195-198

John's Journal

1994

Dean is 15

January – Dean helps John “take out a spirit haunting a grocery owned by an Indian family in Erie, Pennsylvania.” It wasn't as simple as burning bones because of different traditions. [1]

May 2 – Sam asks for a computer for his birthday. John gets him a Macintosh Performa. “Looks like Team Winchester just took a big leap ahead when it comes to gathering information.” John mentions Bobby helped him get fake credit cards. [2]

Summer - Sam and Dean spend part of the summer being looked after by Donna, a babysitter (and maid at the Mayflower) in Housatonic, Massachusetts, while John hunts. One time John is gone for two weeks. It is the summer before Sam enters 6th grade, and he assigns himself a summer reading list. Dean possibly has a crush on Donna. [3]

October - They are living In Bismark (North Dakota?). Sam has a crush on Andrea Howell & has a really bad experience at her Halloween party, throwing up. Sam hides in the woods until Dean comes and gets him. [4]

Sam still believes in the Easter Bunny until close to here. [5]

John's Journal

5.12

14.04

10.12

1995

Dean is 16

January 24 – Montana hunting a werewolf with bows. John says he'll let Dean take the lead on the hunt the next day. [1]

January 25 – Dean does very well. Good shot. [2] Dean's first Werewolf. Sam go to the body burning. "So. I pick up this crossbow. And I hit that ugly sucker with a silver-tipped arrow right in his heart. Sammy's waiting in the car, and uh, me and my dad take the thing into the woods, burn it to a crisp. I'm sitting there and looking into the fire, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm sixteen years old. Most kids my age are worried about pimples, prom dates. I'm seeing things that they'll never even know. Never even dream of." [3]

Dean spends two months at Sonny's Home for Boys after being caught shoplifting. [4]

April 20 - Dean's award for New York Wrestling Champion. [5] John is in Oklahoma City hunting. [6]

Sam spends all of his time on the computer or arguing with John. “He wants to be in one place, live a normal life. The older he gets, the more he wants it. But the older he gets, the more I'm going to need him to help on the hunt. He's got to understand that.” [7]

November 13 – Sam's soccer team won division championship. John writes that he's proud of him and that he'll keep the trophy. [8]

November 24 - Sam has his first traditional Thanksgiving dinner at his crush Stephanie’s house. He has been attending a school called McKinley for two weeks. [9]

John's Journal

2.03

9.07

John's Journal

3.03 & John's Journal Book

5.16

1996

Dean is 17

January 24 – John takes Dean shooting. Then sends him to hunt. “I've let him take the lead before but I've always been there to back him up. This time he's on his own. Partly it's a test, and partly I wanted some time with Sammy. Should be no problem for Dean. Ghosts of two nuns haunting St. Stephen's Indian Mission in Riverton, Wyoming. Simple salt-and-burn mission. Nuns in love with each other, then discovered. Killed themselves. We scoped the situation out, figured that something must be left behind that's now a focus for the haunting. Bible, rosary beads, some small article that's hidden somewhere in their room. I figured Dean would take care of it no problem, but I still stayed close by with Sammy.... Dean took care of the nuns just like I thought he would, but I don't think I'm going to be sending him on any more solos soon.” [1]

Sam finishes sixth grade a year late. He's mad about it. [2]

July 4 - Dean and Sam set off fireworks in a field and almost burn it down. [3]

At some point when Sam was 13 he ran away for two weeks while under Dean's watch in Flagstaff, Arizona, living off pizza in a cabin and befriending a dog he called Bones. Dean scoured the whole town looking for him and worried he might have died, and John was furious when he found out. [3]

John's Journal

5.16

1997

Dean is 18

January 24 – John gives Dean the Impala. “I've taught Dean a lot of what I know about working on cars, which was everything until 1983.... He knows I'll still be driving it, but he's a man now, and since he's already made his share of kills, this was the only right of passage I could think of. He goddamn well better take care of it.” [1]

When he's 13, Sam briefly wants to be a magician. [2]

May – Sam has been having strange dreams. “Plus now that he's hitting adolescence, he's a giant pain in the ass. Dean just chased girls and snuck around with beers in his coat pockets.” Sam just shuts down or wants to argue. [3]

June 16 – John claims Dean graduates high school & gets a diploma. John says Sam will be graduating when he's nineteen and will be mad about it. [4] But Dean didn't graduate high school. He got a GED. [5]

July 4 - Sam and Dean “burned down that field” when they set off their own fireworks display. [6]

Summer - The Winchesters hunt a werewolf. [7]

November - Sam and Dean attend Truman High in Fairfax, Indiana, for 3 or 4 weeks, while John is on a hunt that was originally supposed to be 2 weeks but ended up taking longer than expected. Dean is in 12th Grade. It is the third school they have attended since September. [8]

John's Journal

4.12

John's Journal

5.01

5.16

4.13

1998

Dean is 19

Sam is a mathlete. [1]

Summer - While John and Dean are off hunting a Kitsune, Sam stays in Lincoln, Nebraska, and does research for them. While there, he meets a girl and has his first kiss - only to discover that John and Dean's hunt has circled back on him. [2]

May – John feels Sam is shirking his duty. Dean and Sam don't get along as well. [3]

July - Dean goes on a solo "five states in five days" road trip, but ends up spending most of it in Cicero, Indiana, with Lisa Braeden. In the meantime, John & Sam "tie up a hunt" in Orlando, Florida. [4]

Dean meets Rhonda Hurley, she makes him try on her pink, satin panties and he likes it. [5]

At some point they spend time with Travis, the hunter. [6]

4.04

7.03

John's Journal

3.02

5.04

4.04

1999

Dean is 20

January 24 – Dean in Ohio. “Hasn't called in a couple of days. Tracking a possible poltergeist. He's supposed to call in every night. Mission discipline is critical.” [1]

John's Journal

1990s General

Dean trying to cook Winchester Surprise on a hotplate with food (baloney and sliced cheese) that it seems Sam shoplifted in the rain. John gets home and throws it out. [1] In Lebanon John tells Sam he remembers this and apologizes to Sam for it. [2]

Sam and Dean visited the Cleveland Botanical Gardens on a field trip. [3]

Dean going to CBGB "way underage" and John coming to get him. [4]

Hunting the chupacabra in Mexico. Sam is an olderish teenager when he says this happened the year before. [5]

John making Dean be bait, [6]

Dean used to live on “Nerve Damage” (“10 times the legal limit of caffeine”) as a kid. [7]

Escalating prank wars? [8]

Could be 80s too: Dean: “Remember that wreath Dad brought home that one year?” Sam: “You mean the one he stole from, like, a liquor store?” Dean: “Yeah, it was a bunch of empty beer cans. That thing was great.” [9]

14.11

14.13

5.16

10.09

11.10

14.14 production draft. Corroborated by 1.20. Putting this in 1990s and not 1980s is very generous imo.

13.08

1.17

3.08

2000

January 1 – Dean has a terrible hangover. Immobile. John is also hungover. [1]

January 24 - Dean is 21. “I'd buy him a beer if I thought it would be something new. He's also old enough to buy his own guns now. I tried to raise him right, and it looks like I did. He's a scam artist, a ladies' man, and an absolutely loyal son. He knows what's right and doesn't hesitate to do it. I'm proud of him. Now that he's hunting on his own I don't see as much of him, but I know he's out there. When I call him on a job, he's right there every time. I've spent the last sixteen years afraid that I was going to screw him up somehow. Maybe now I can forget about that.” [2]

May 2 – John buys Sam a Mac for his birthday. [3]

1-3 John's Journal

2001

Dean is 22. He's away from John in Arkansas. [1]

May 2 – Sam & John aren't getting along. “He hunts when we need him to, but he's never committed himself the way Dean did. Dean's never known any other way to live, or if he has, he doesn't act like it. He's playing the role he was born to play.... I've given [Sam] more slack that I ever gave Dean.... Dean never even thought about college. We used to joke about it once in a while.” John wants to convince Sam not to go to college. Sam helps hide their trail of credit cards. [2]

Sam smokes weed maybe. [3]

John's Journal

11.19

Pre-2002, 2000s General

Sam & Dean driving 1,000 miles for an Ozzy show. [1]

Driving two days for a Jayhawks game. [2]

John catches Lee and Dean 'wasted' on a hunt. [3]

John plays Dean and Lee “Good Ol Boys” before hunts. “Listen up boys this is real music. [4]

Sam used to try to get him & Dean to do 'honest work' rather than hustling pool.[5]

The Las Vegs annual trip. [6]

Sam ran tech for a production of Oklahoma. [7]

5.22

15.17

5.22

7.08 (this seems like a stretch, imo)

10.05

Post-2002, 2000s General

Dean sleeps with Annie. [1]

Dean sees Lee while Sam's in college. [2] Possibly the 'cult thing in Arizona' 'what that thing did to that family, those kids.' Because Lee does one more job after that in Texas and retires.

At some point Dean hunts a Vetala and learns they usually hunt in pairs. [3]

7.19

15.17

7.11

2002

Dean is 23. John imagines he feels physically invincible. [1]

March 8 - Sam says he's leaving hunting to go to Stanford University. John says if he leaves to stay gone. [2] “And now he's going to college? He can go to hell, is where he can go.” (“Dean has always responded to discipline because he believes in the mission”) [3]

June 13 – Sam graduated high school (he's 19). John thinks he's mad it took him a year longer. [4]

August 31 – Sam leaves & John tells him to stay gone. [5]

September - Adam Milligan meets John Winchester. [6] (This could be any time from now til 2003 but I think it would be now because John will want to feel he can replace Sam or do something right.)

John's Journal

1.01, 1.20

John's Journal

4.19

2003

Dean is 24

January 24 - “I was twenty-four when I married his mother. Sorry, kid. Every boy has to cut the apron strings sometime, and for you it's not going to be until we kill off a supernatural entity that seriously needs killing.” [1]

Dean dates Cassie Robinson in Athens, Ohio, for a few weeks, while she finishes up her senior year of college (at Ohio University). Cassie breaks up with Dean after Dean tells her about hunting. [2] It lasts less than two months. [3]

May 2 – Dean & John are leaving Ohio. John overhears Dean on the phone talking about Sam. John notices Dean has been in a rough mood. [4]

June 13 – Dean hears about a succubus in Brooklyn from Richie and heads out quickly. [5]

June 21 - Dean is involved in a hunt for the father of Cole Trenton, in Nyack, NY. [6]

October 9 – Poltergeist case in Kittanning, PA. [7] John mentions that he's been visiting Palo Alto but not like seeing Sam. [8]

John gets taken from this year into the future in "Lebanon." He is sleeping in the Impala and Dean calls him and he tells him he'll be back soon. [9]

John's Journal

1.13

5.11

John's Journal

John's Journal 3.04

10.02

1.04 & John's Journal

John's Journal

14.13

2004

Dean is 25

End of June – John visits Palo Atlo & sees that Sam has a girlfriend. [1]

September 29 - John takes Adam to a ballgame for his 14th birthday. [2]

John's Journal Book

4.19

2005

Dean is 26, dude.

January 1 - “When I was twenty-six, I'd been married for two years and had a toddler. Dean's never been with a woman for more than a couple of weeks at a time. I've prevented him from being a father.” [1]

January 24 – John mentions he's been telling Dean more about the demon stuff he's learning from Bobby. [2]

Summer - John teaches Adam to drive using the Impala (this is after John gave Dean the car for his 18th). [3]

September 29 - John buys Adam a beer when he's 15. [4]

October 3 - John cuts off contact with Dean (John is in Jericho, Dean in New Orleans). [5]

October 28 – John leaves journal in Jericho & goes after demon. [6]

End of October – Dean comes to get Sam.

Dean: "I must have stood outside your dorm for hours... because I didn't... I didn't know what... What you would say. I thought you'd tell me to... to get lost or get dead. And I don't know what I would've done... if I didn't have you. 'Cause I was so scared." [7]

John's Journal

4.19

1.01 & John's Journal

John's Journal

15.20

General Comments

(i.e. just quotes and things that are either too general to place in time or give windows into Dean's feelings about John at various points)

Toni Bevell saying about John's drunken rages and weeks of abandonment. Also pointing out that Dean & Sam didn't tell Mary about it. [1]

Dean says he & Sam could have benefited from a mother's dating advice. [2]

Sam talks about worrying when John & Dean would be out on a hunt and he wouldn't hear from them for days. He thought about what he would do. [3]

Sam saying it seemed to him Dean & John bonded over hunting. [4]

Dean's allusions to liking dancing/wanting to be a dancer. [5]

John saying hunter gatherings were trouble and in general keeping Sam & Dean away from them. [6]

Dean: “I know things got dicey… you know, with dad… the way he was. And I just… I didn’t always look out for you the way that I should’ve. I mean, I had my own stuff, you know. In order to keep the peace, it probably looked like I took his side quite a bit. Sometimes when I was… when I was away, you know it wasn’t ‘cause I just ran out, right? Dad would… he would send me away when I really pissed him off. I think you knew that.” [7]

Dean: “Ah well, growing up it was a… it was always nice to check out once in a while. I like to watch movies where I know the bad guy is going to lose.” [8]

“you know kids, no matter what they still want the old man's approval” about an abusive dad. Dean agrees to it. [9]

Dean drinks to “crappy childhoods”. [10]

Dean: “Jo, you've got options. No one in their right mind chooses this life. My dad started me in this when I was so young... I wish I could do something else... Jo, you've got a mother that worries about you. Who wants something more for you. Those are good things. You don't throw things like that away. Might be hard to find later.” [11]

Sam: “his drill sergeant thing worked with you but it didn't work with me.” [12]

Sam: “Dad always said it was temporary, Dean. He said it for 22 years.” [13]

Dean: “And I get what I've been doing lately, you know, what with the yelling and the acting like a prison guard. It's just, that's not me. You tell yourself you're not gonna be something, you know? But my dad was exactly like this. All the time. It's scaring the hell out of me.” [14]

Sam: “I wish I could have that kinda innocence.” Dean: “If it means anything, sometimes I wish you could too.” [15]

“I'm starting to get why parents lie to their kids. You want them to believe that the worst thing out there is mixing Pop Rocks and Coke—protect them from the real evil. You want them going to bed feeling safe. If that means lying to them, so be it. The more I think about it...the more I wish Dad had lied to us.” [16]

Dean says he's been wanting John and Mary back together since he was four. [17]

Dean learned to use CB radios to look for leads from truckers. John used them all the time. [18]

“Growing up on the road, no matter where Dad dragged us, no matter what we did, there was always a TV. And you know what was on that TV? Scooby and the gang.” [19]

Sam: "And when we were kids how many times did we tell dad we were fine just to make him happy?!" [20]

Sam says explicitly that they had to hustle pool to eat. [21] Additionally, Sam says John made them do this. [22]

Travis: "you ever been really hungry? I mean, haven't-eaten-in-days hungry?" Dean: a 'yeah' so emphatic his voice cracks. Sam: silence. [23]

John: “You know, when you were a kid, I'd come home from a hunt, and after what I'd seen, I'd be, I'd be wrecked. And you, you'd come up to me and you, you'd put your hand on my shoulder and you'd look me in the eye and you'd... You'd say 'It's okay, Dad'... You shouldn't have had to say that to me, I should have been saying that to you. You know, I put, I put too much on your shoulders, I made you grow up too fast. You took care of Sammy, you took care of me. You did that, and you didn't complain, not once.” [24]

12.21

11.12

11.18

12.20

7.16 & 15.10

2.03 & 12.06

14.12

14.04

13.02

10.12

2.06

13.04

6.02

1.18

5.06

14.13

13.11

13.16

14.16

15.11

1.08

4.04

2.01

Shoutout to these great timelines as well! http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Timeline_(Pre-series) & https://supernatural.fandom.com/wiki/Chronology_of_Supernatural

#supernatural #spn #characters #psychology #GOD THANK YOU SO MUCH #i’ve actually wanted to do this for such a long time #so glad someone actually did #thank u op #dean winchester

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