#and just in general i feel like cishet people arent that interesting

[a-court-of-moonlight-and-ire]

Made it through chapters 13-18 today and I wanted to start this one off by mentioning something that I noticed a while ago but neglected to mention here so far, which is that Feyre uses Ihr/Euch when referring to Tamlin and I think Lucien and even Alis as well (Ihr/Euch is the Formal You thats used to refer to nobility (as opposed to the more common Sie/Ihnen which is the Formal You used in others contexts)), while Tamlin and Lucien refer to Feyre by du (Informal You) and Alis refers to her by Ihr/Eugh as well. I wanna try and keep track of when Feyre starts to use the Informal You for Tamlin because its a small detail but it always signals a pretty big shift in the relationship in german-language media and I think its really neat

Anyway, now onto the other stuff; i remember that I complained about the pacing feeling very slow in my first post and I would like to say that thats gotten a lot better, at least on the level of individual scenes. When it comes to the story as a whole though, I feel like its moving unnaturally quickly. Like, its a little hard to describe but Feyres character development and her warming up to the fae feels like its happening in chunks rather than a smooth, natural progression. The fact that SJM's writing is incredibly unsubtle isnt helpful either, it just makes the unnatural-ness of it all stick out that much more. I wouldve definitely needed atleast one realization of "Oh, these guys arent that different from me and the people I knew in my life" from Feyre before she started warming up to them and feeling sorry for Andras' death because as it stands, her feeling guilty felt very sudden

While the fae are still dissappointing overall and I despise the horrible What-if-America-colonized-the-British-Isles ass layout and the exposition was clunkier than ever before, I did like all the non-high fae fea creatures, the Suriel and the Bogge in particular, its truly incredible how interesting SJM's writing can be when shes not too focused on the most generically handsome basically-human-except-they-fuckin-growl-and-roar men

Speaking of those men, I continue to find Tamlin pretty charming although hes definitely definitely not my type, my type are pathetic submissive easily flustered guys, but given that this is a book by Sarah J Maas a guy who actually has hobbies outside of fighting and fucking might be all I can hope for. Despite that, I like Luien a lot more and I find his relationship with Feyre far more compelling. Like, him giving Feyre that dagger telling her not to stab him in the back with it was absolutely lovely, not mention his incredibly interesting family drama. Like ughhhhhhh whyd SJM decide she wanted to subvert expectations by having Feyre end up with Rhysand when Lucien is literally right there. Although granted, I think a large part of the reason I feel that way is because Feyre and Tamlin havent really interacted too much in almost 200 hundred pages while Feyre and Lucien have spent a decent amount of time alone already and its a little baffling because its not like Feylin have absolutely no time together, its just that we dont really see it. Like, we dont see their almost nightly dinners and its really frustrating because Im not even someone who really enjoys this kind of bland cishet "dark romance" thats popular on booktok, but like, whats the point of a beauty and the beast retelling where you dont see the beauty and beast slowly get to know each other. Its even more frustrating when I remember that like a quarter or maybe even a third of this book is gonna be all the Under The Mountain bullshit, like you know you can just tell a smaller scale romance story in a fantasy setting without a big war right

#acotar critical #anti acotar #thorns and roses liveblog #anti sjm

[lgbtpolitics]

Apologies for the long ask, I am just rambling and I'm curious about your take on this if you're interested.

Re: your post about bi women, biphobia is very very different when coming from gay men and lesbians versus straight people in my experience. And with women, when it comes from straight people it tends to be pretty similar to lesbophobia? Like, women are naturally attracted to men and that's the way it should be, so lesbians are sick in the head and bi women are just confused and will grow out of it -- or in one recent example, a middle-aged bi woman was treated like a lesbian because she married a woman after being married to a man, and she was treated like she was abandoning men or something. No time left to grow out of it I guess? She reached her assigned-woman-expiration-date maybe?

When it comes from cishet people it comes from a position of power that's being threatened by the presence of happy LGBT people, and/or an ingrained sense of disgust. I won't speak for gay men but with lesbians, biphobia often comes from experiences of oppression (the way men treat women in general, especially lesbians, the way attraction to men is considered required for sanity and respect, etc) that they then project on bi women -- and often, also straight women.

So it honestly is a very very different discussion to be had, depending on where the biphobia is coming from. And I understand why bi people so often point these discussions at lesbians and gay men rather than cishets, because cishets are in a position of power over all of us whereas lesbians and gay men aren't. Cishets have no incentive to listen or respect bisexuals, but the LGBT community is a community.

Nooo rant away!

And yeah I totally agree with what you're saying, biphobia from gay men and lesbians comes from a different place (thats not to say less harmful, just different) than it does in cishet people. Even just looking at within the LGBT community, there are a lot of different strands of bigotry towards one another; you have biphobia that comes from the very "exclusionist" (for want of a better word) strain i.e. that bisexual men and women aren't really LGBT, and then you have a level of biphobia that comes from a more "inclusionist" standpoint i.e. that bisexuals arent inclusive enough and should identify as pansexual etc.

And yeah i think part of the focus on gay men and lesbians comes from exactly what you say - it feels like a more achievable goal to eradicate biphobia from gay men and lesbians (whether it is more achievable or not idk but i think some perceive it as such) or at least to push biphobic LGBT people out of social circles enough to be irrelevant. And tbh i dont think its entirely wrong to focus so much on this; as biphobia from cishets is in the same sphere as general homophobia and transphobia this does actually get a fair amount of attention even if its not specific in the same way, if that makes sense. Attention needs to be drawn to intercommunity bigotry because its more likely to be swept under the rug.

What kind of annoys me, and this is what i felt about the post in question, is that sometimes people seem to spend so much time and effort on intercommunity bigotry they almost seem to forget about the more general bigotry. Case in point; the post said nothing at all about the LGBT community specifically, was just talking about self hatred in bi women, and yet people were absolutely insisting that bi women are much more hated for liking men than women. The idea that bi women have no reason to feel shame about liking women is the direct implication of some of the responses.

Whats kind of ironic about these things is that it somwhat comes full circle - if bi women genuinely had no issues about liking other women, but mostly felt self-hatred about liking men, they would actually have very little in common with lesbians.

[labyrinthphanlivingafacade]

Hi love

I think you misinterpreted the mlmxreader post as an attack on people that write Corirose

I’m the anon that said that and while I don’t understand the appeal of it, I’d never want to keep people from writing what they want. You’re allowed to ship the Corinthian with whoever you want, obviously. I’m just mad that mlm and nblm finally got a a cool and interesting character and people immediately jumped to only shipping him with fem characters/ocs or only writing f!reader because he’s suddenly pansexual. I’m literally pansexual myself but I’m fucking frustrated that everything is catered to f!readers or cishet women in general. We have this character that’s openly interested in men and they just erase that part of him? As long as you recognize all aspects of his sexuality I’m fine with any ship, but don’t erase the parts that don’t include women.

You keep doing what you want to do!!

so glad to have your permission /s

anyways if you'd actually read any of the fic i wrote, you'd know that i do acknowledge his sexuality... & i write rose as being bi herself.

as for fandom being catered to women,,, i would hope the spaces they built would do that. even if frustrating to trans & queer ppl like us. like tumblr & ao3 fandom spaces were built by them & you dont think theyre gonna go buckwild? weird.

also of all the things ive posted on tumblr tagged "the corinthian" that have to do w corirose as ship are... *checks blog* brief analysis of a scene they share in the show, pages from the original comic that imply they have a red riding hood/the wolf coding, pages from the original comics that parallel one another (it's the alley fight scene if you're curious, which you arent bc if you were you'd have seen that the dirty cishet writing the ship you dont like is indeed a queer like you)

additionally there aren't really people that ship corirose. there's a person. me. im literally the only one writing for them or posting about their entwined arcs in the show. which is why i took offense. im literally the only one here. ive looked on ao3. there are 7 fics tagged as corirose. 2 are the corinthian/dream/rose, 1 is a one off that's like 1k words long, & the other 4 fully written fics are me. you were talking about me, which is fine. but next time dont be a little bitch & just tag me. maybe come off anon. or, if you're conflict averse, just fucking dm me if my work bothers you.

you asked why i didnt ship the corinthian w carl, the roommate, instead of rose. i ask why you think that would be interesting. feel free to answer that on anon or private dms if you'd like. i dont post screenshots. bc i dont ship rose & the corinthian bc she's a woman. i ship them bc he's a nightmare & she's the fucking VORTEX. bc he spends half of season 1 looking for her & being nice to her brother & trying to get her to kill dream which i wish she had bc it is utter BULLSHIT that both dream himself & the narrative insist that her death be a nobel sacrifice for the fate of the universe. that dream doesn't even really seem to fight for her. doesnt ask his siblings or parents for help so he doesnt have to kill her. just accepts the utter cosmic injustice that is murdering rose walker for no crime other than being born the vortex. the corinthian may have wanted her to live so he could be free of dream, but he wanted her to live. & rose as the vortex def has the power to destroy him, but probably never would bc she is an infinitely better person than dream. that is just so,,, COOL to me.

#& tbh i think rose walker could use someone who would enable her to be a bit selfish #anyways hi whatever [REDACTED] simp from the server sent me this

[sheryl-lee]

i dont wanna join the discussion too late but i read all that eddie stuff and literally im so relieved other ppl feel this way and i have so much to say abt it. so many things sucked this season anyway akshdkjsd but i will NEVER understand the fandom. they have so many incredible characters to pick from. eleven played by the incredible millie bobbie brown, lucas who has one of the most compelling personalities when others dont have a personality at all and max who has so many interesting dynamics with everyone including him, will who was unfortunately reduced to being a sad gay boy but is STILL such a good character, ROBIN who is probably neurodivergent and canonically a lesbian. also about max - she's a morally gray character which is never seen. she didnt save billy because he didnt deserve to be, and there are characters that are just so lame and plain and "the good guys" like h*rry p*tter saving draco in that one fire scene. max isnt just a bland hero, which is even groundbreaking for a character. but nope. they go with steve and eddie the white guys and ship them and uggggh. someone said people would ship jonathan and argyle if they were considered more attractive and ITS TRUE. people will ship anything. they used to ship billy and steve but not these guys? its weird. man, even murray is a more interesting character. going back to the max thing, you have peter parker, another white guy, and ppl freaking out over how he wanted to kill that guy in nwh. im telling you, its groundbreaking, but they'll ignore interesting stuff in characters who arent cute white boys 🙄🙄

don't worry about it! and OOF EXACTLY thank you for the hp comp like that's exactly what i h8 abt people's obsession with these bland yt men. i swear fandoms have not progressed in some regards like so many of them are stuck in the 90s/2000s but instead of that decade's yt man we have this decade's yt man. nothing else has changed. women and poc are still discarded and minimized and villified regardless of their role in a story; the actors playing them are STILL sent d*ath threats for... doing their job? existing? and it's so tiring and sickening honestly. lucas and max and el and robin and even will are wonderful characters who are genuinely engaging to watch; at a surface level there are already so many fascinating things to analyze about them and all of them are played by capable actors. i truly am sad that people don't give them the credit they deserve. and the same goes for so many other fandoms with those same issues.

i'm generally not a fan of shipping and i'm not as into it the way a lot of people are. like i have my few romantic pairings that i like and that's about it, i'm not that intense about it. but that's me! i know everyone else has their preferences and they're absolutely free to like what they like, but it's a problem when people start gatekeeping and almost force others to like the ships they like, especially when those ships are typically comprised of canonically cishet white men. it takes the fun out of shipping and the joy out of watching a show or film. it takes the conversation and filters out what should be engaging and distills it to something so lacking of substance. the st problem just speaks to that larger issue imo, and it's very concerning to me that in 2022 fandoms still haven't moved beyond it - if anything, it's gotten worse.

#💌 answered 💌

[noelle-holi-gay]

Is it ok if you explain what a he/him lesbian is? I tried to google it but the results kept conflicting between it being good and bad

Yeah no problem! Explanation under the cut, since it's pretty long.

To put it simply: A he/him lesbian is someone who identifies as a lesbian and uses he/him pronouns. This can feel a bit counter-intuitive (we typically assume that lesbians are women and that people who go by he/him are men), but labels arent meant to be cages; they're tools used for self-expression and to communicate with other people. How we each define ourselves, and the terms we use to do so, are personal, and no two people will define their identity in the same way.

Pronouns themselves, importantly, are not indicative of gender identity; they're more similar to presentation. Someone may identify as a woman, but present masculinely (eg, butch lesbians). Similarly, someone may identify as a woman, but present using he/him pronouns. Why? Well, I don't know, that's rather personal. Maybe it's something to do with challenging an oppressive system of gender; maybe it just makes you feel good; maybe it's nothing you can really put a finger on, or multiple things. It doesn't particularly matter.

In the same way you can identify as a woman and use he/him, you can identify as a lesbian and use he/him (though, while I'm using the example of he/him women to make my point here, it's important to note that not ALL he/him lesbians consider themselves to be women. Again, there's nuance here, and it's all very case-by-case and personal). There's a million and one reasons why someone might identify this way: sometimes it's a natural extension of a masc presentation, sometimes it's a masc-leaning FTM nonbinary person who feels culturally connected to the lesbian community even if he no longer identifies as a woman, sometimes it's a genderfluid or bigender person, sometimes it's a person who is intentionally presenting a contradictory identity in an effort to challenge heretro and cisnormative social ideologies -- but, critically, it is NEVER anyone else's business, outside of those the individual wishes to share it with.

Some (mostly cis) lesbians take issue with he/him lesbians for a variety of reasons. Most of these are dismissible as blatant or poorly-disguised transphobia (there's a lot of TERF ideology thrown around in debates over this, but that's a conversation for another time), but the one I personally see most often that isn't obviously transphobic is that he/him lesbians dilute the meaning of the lesbian label, and that if we keep down this path, these labels won't retain any real meaning. This argument, in my mind, demonstrates a fundamental misunderstand of linguistics and of labels. Firstly, no words have any 'real' meaning beyond the meaning we as users of the language ascribe to them. Secondly, the broadening of a label like this isn't a bad thing -- we've seen it before with the broadening of 'gay', of 'bi', of 'ace', of 'trans', of 'nonbinary', and nearly every other label in the acronym.

As I said before, labels aren't meant to be boxes to sort people into, they're meant to be tools to express oneself. And to tell these trans people, who are using these labels in the ways that they feel describes their experiences the best, that they are expressing themselves incorrectly? That feels eerily similar to what cishet people have been doing to the entire community for far too long. We are stronger together, and this sort of gatekeeping and exclusion only divides us. I see no merit in it.

I hope that's a useful explanation! I'm a binary trans woman, so this isn't entirely my wheelhouse, so if anyone who identifies this way (or uses non-standard pronoun/gender labels in general) wants to add on, feel free! If anyone wants to debate me over why he/him lesbians are evil and ruining the integrity of the movement and, ohhh, think of the children!, I'm not interested, so just block me and move on, thank you.

#not deltarune #answers

[asuka--langley--soryu]

If you haven't already, could you expand more on the "Asuka's a lesbian" theory? I've seen people say it and I think it seems reasonable, but I haven't found anyone actually explain their thought process.

calling it a theory makes it seem a little more serious than it is, i think. more or less its just that a lot of asuka’s characterization resonates with the experiences of gay women (which i am using broadly, tho i do specifically think asuka is a lesbian), especially in regards to alienation from womanhood/women and compulsive heterosexuality. 

 basically, she exhibits literally no genuine affection for men but feels like she has to imitate heterosexuality (ie kissing shinji), she chooses kaji as a man to fixate on bc he is inherently unavailable, rejects all of the boys at her school and leaves her date early bc she can’t simulate interest in them, and mentions a few times how the idea of being in a relationship or having sex with a man disgusts and disturbs her. the only person she is even remotely close to is hikari and, emotionally, really the only person who seems to have an understanding of her and vice versa is rei (who she has a kind of classic baby gay obsession-rivalry thing with, which i will talk about in my eventual asuka/rei post lol). these are all things that mirror the actual experiences of young wlw p closely, which is why hc-ing asuka as a lesbian is popular. 

probably this kind of thing is more difficult for non-wlw to understand bc there isnt the sort of obvious gesturing to same sex attraction like w maya or kaworu or w/e. even though, for me, asuka is a much more accurate depiction of my experiences as a lesbian than maya. but if youre not a gay woman youre probably not well versed in their experiences and commonalities beyond like.....being attracted to girls--for a lot of reasons, obvi, one of which being that gay women arent often depicted in realistic ways so like.... how would you know what actions/emotions are signals or flags. 

then again, of course, how many ‘true lives of real and nonsexy lesbians’ stories is any given cishet person (and, to a point, non-wlw people in general) really intaking--esp w the goal of gaining this understanding so that you can approach media with an actual metric for judging whether or not a character may be gay without them having to be like ‘i literally love women/men’ (and even then like... look at fucking kaworu). im not kind enough to really give people the benefit of the doubt, i guess, but either way the difficulty in this kind of thing is that it’s all based in reading actions and expressions that feel inherent to the gay experience as therefore representative of gayness. and also being willing to accept the presence of gayness as something not necessitating textual confirmation--which is, for way too many fucking people, where the problem lies. 

its a bit of a dead horse but really the idea of like having to prove a sexuality for a character who has no stated sexuality is rooted in the presumption of heterosexuality as not only a neutral category but an inherent one. like, if we are to remove something from the default set there needs to be a given reason and evidence, a detailed claim of divergence, and what counts as acceptable is ever shifting and impossible. there isnt a like....homosexual scientific method or kinsey scale conditional proof system and, even if there was, people probably still wouldn’t believe it. 

basically what im trying to say is that if a lot of lesbians say ‘i think this character is a lesbian’ it might be best to just believe them. 

#asks #nge #evangelion #asuka langley soryu #neon genesis evangelion #god this got out of hand #but it was between being brief and snippy or extremely longwinded #and yknow where i went #kind of this is a thing that i have thought about forever and ever and so #i did kind of tangent and ramble #chozomechanic #q #this has been a text post #mine

[zanguntsu]

attractiveness and morality - or how people think with their metaphorical dicks instead of their brains

people are fucking horny over the villain characters in bleach, i mean specifically the male ones because as we know the female villains are nonexistent lol. but it’s not hard to see how attractive the male characters are even though i just refuse to acknowledge men unless i have too.

however, there is an issue with how we perceive the characters based on how attractive they actually are, more along the lines of how people will excuse any offensive behavior based on physical attractiveness

the convicts oops i mean examples

there are a few examples i can name like popular male villains that people lose their shit over.

aizen is the big one, where despite the crimes he has committed, such as emotional manipulation, attempting to wipe out a whole town, murders, and hollowfying his colleagues and getting away with it. yet, he is sympathized, especially over Tousen who tends to be more villainized by the fandom or at least held in a less favorable regard.

Gin is in the same boat, with the emotional manipulation and general emotional harm inflicted on multiple people but is sympathizes because uwu he loves rangiku even though he did cause her harm, simply because he betrayed her and hurt her friends and colleagues.

Ulquiorra is another very notable one, since he also has that whole manipulation thing although not as blatant as aizen. he did kidnap a minor and abuse her (isolating her, threatens her and her friends, and it is used to control her/keep her in captivity).

Grimmjow is another example, and its especially notable because he’s just very very violent. And he never apologizes or feels remorse for it, despite generally terrorizing Ichigo and co.

Nn*itra is especially reprehensible, he is overtly sexist, as most of his violent acts are targeted at women and uh. actively saying he hates women. creepy (implied sexual) behavior towards a minor as well.

Szayel as well, he has no regard for his minions, and then theres whatever he did to nemu what the fuck that was so fucked what the fuck.

notably, these men are also wildly popular among the fandom. they will have the most fanart, most discussion, most fics i guess. 

why do horny fucks sympathize with them

people empathize with people they see as attractive, and i mean conventional attractiveness. note how none of this empathy extends to people who do not fall in the category as attractive (often pale side eyes) hunk/twink. does zommari get that attention? yammy? why are they not held to the same standard as say szayel/gin or grimmjow. yammy is also angry and prone to violence, much like grimmjow.

what sets them apart is that they are not deemed sexually attractive so therefore, their flaws become easier to ignore and they arent sympathized as much. of course, kubo probably did inadvertently create this problem, seeing as theres a discrepancy in creating a complex character. another example of this is the comparison between byakuya and omaeda. of course, they are obviously different characters, byakuya has more development and screentime. however they are similar in that they are wealthy, in high positions of power, and look down on people they deem inferior for a variety of reasons. byakuya, however, is conventionally attractive and also has screentime. that being said there is an underlying issue of fatphobia as well in reducing omaeda to a comic relief character.

people empathize with attractive people or at least favor them. “People more strongly desire to form or maintain bonds with physically attractive partners relative to unattractive partners—an attractiveness-based affiliation effect (Path B). In turn, through projection, attractive partners are perceived to possess attributes that are compatible with these goals, which largely center on their reciprocation of interest in establishing or maintaining close relationships (Path C).”  this is indicated by the halo effect, “the tendency for positive impressions of a person, company, brand or product in one area to positively influence one's opinion or feelings in other areas“ which also applies to beauty and how attractiveness impacts how one recognizes a person. for example, an attractive person will often be associated with positive traits such as compassion, intelligence, and other desirable traits. it could be things like how appearing well groomed heightens others perception of you, how you will appear responsible and capable.

and this does extend to the villains. aizen is viewed as a tragic villain who fights for injustice or something like that. gin is a tragic antihero i think that did everything for his true love tm. ulquiorra is a tragic villain who does not understand love. grimmjow is grimmjow. nn*itra is somehow tragic with an inferiority complex lmao take that fucking L bug boyyy loser. and szayel... exists. see how fanon interprets these characters despite none of them having any remorse for what they have done. the fandom leaps to provide a justification or rational for their actions no matter how abhorrent they are. yammy and zommari are still held as villains, yet they are not sympathized with in the slightest nor are beloved to that extent. compare the sexualization of these men and the amount of sympathy garnered from the fandom. 

why this matters

its no secret that in online spaces especially, offenders are romanticized or at least sympathized. take the true crime community for example, in which case male serial killers were romanticized despite the atrocities they have committed. and this is linked to the “bad boy” trope that is prevalent in romance novels, where a troubled or dangerous man seems like a desirable partner despite stalking their love interest among other crimes. of course, this also gets a bad rep from wattpad ya books and just ya books in general.

there are examples of this trope. i have vaguely alluded to edward from twilight. there is also the cause of that white guy from 50 shades of gray, which is most known for romanticizing abuse but the audience cannot help but be allured by his white guyness or something/ there is the netflix film “you” where a man stalks a women but it is seen as romantic and people find themselves attracted to joe despite his violence. literally this type of behavior:

there’s ted bundy film and how people raved about how hot he was despite him being an absolute monster and having real victims whos family have to live with the fact that people find their family member’s killer hot. it is this in its absolute extreme, where people are fully aware of their crimes but still find sympathy or attraction towards a criminal. in this case it is the gradual romanticization of violence that may creep up. i cannot assuredly claim that there is a strong correlation between finding villains attractive and romanticizing violence but there can be some indication of this.

and this view of how attractiveness can bleed into criminal court. of course, there are other factors such as gender, sexuality, age of judges and the inherent corruption within the legal system. here is a list of studies about this topic because christ i am not copy and pasting all of that go read it yourself.  but the main takeway is that in mock jurors and other public opinion, the more attractive defendants accused of crimes have less severe sentences or even less sentences (however this is not seen as frequently in judges). it shows that there is a level of sympathy, leniency, or more compassion towards attractive people. 

Conclusion

the point being made here is that attractiveness affects how one sees a person. yes, it is possible to find villains attractive, however the bias of physical attractiveness and actual character can potentially be dangerous if left unchecked. this is not exactly a call to action or a psa because a) i am fully aware that this fandom is horny to the point of brainrot and that it is incurable and b) this is just an analysis on behavior in the fandom. and i am aware that the studies are cishet in nature and are not indicative of the fandom as a whole seeing as there are a fair amount of lgbt people in this fandom. that being said, my point still stands.

#hi everyone its me blaze zanguntsu back at it again with a whole essay #ramble tag #dare i tag this in the bleach tag #bleach #i am going to invite so much discourse onto my blog with this wont i

[lesbiradshaw]

Genuinely interested in what you think about Bucky being perceived as female-coded in some parts of the fandom. I read that thread years ago and agreed with because it sounded logical, but now I'm not so sure. Recently found out about the existence of this Tony Stark meta essay called "Tony Stark as the most female-coded superhero" and they use the same arguments: loss of agency, playing the damsel in distress role more often than their counterpart, etc. I can't take "fm-coded" seriously anymore

oh boy ...

idk how long this will end up but to preface whatever we do end up with: 1) im a nonbinary lesbian so my perception on what it means to be a woman and femininity in general is not going to be what a lot of other peoples is and 2) im a few months out from getting a degree in gender studies. take that for what you will. no i will not be arguing about this in my inbox.

to be frank, in my opinion, bucky being female coded is bullshit. not only is it bullshit, i have seen it used as a weapon by so many white women and terfs that even if it were true, i wouldnt care! whoever came up with the term “woobify” (which i have most often seen used in reference to how tony stark is treated) needs to tell bucky stans that they aren’t exempt. a lot of them see bucky being a victim as something that needs a continuation into every other part of his life, hence why he’s so often put into these weird dynamics with his ships and given traits he’s never displayed on screen.

i keep thinking of disclaimers to make in anticipation of people coming to my inbox crying so here’s another: if you are a woman or someone who feels a close connection to certain parts of womanhood, me saying bucky isnt woman coded in no way takes away from you identifying with him or parts of his story. that is personal. a woman’s personal relation to him is not reliant on “woman coding” as i’ve seen a lot of white women and terfs suggest, not does it strengthen the existence of such coding. coding is created within the original media, not within the fandom.

i also just realized ive been using the term woman coded rather than female coded, but i think subconsciously there is a reason for that that ties into one of my main points pretty well: the mcu stan’s definition of “female” coding relies on stereotypes, not about female roles, but about what it means in their opinion to be a woman. the issue with this is they take traits they think only exist in (cishet) women and use them to deem these (cishet) male characters as woman coded when in fact these traits are not exclusive to women and enforce weird standards upon people who are women that might not be cis or het or share these traits!

tony stark being short and bucky having long hair is not what would make them woman coded. bucky being rescued by a man while woozy is not what would make him woman coded. bucky being submissive to pierce when LITERALLY BEING BRAINWASHED is not what would make him woman coded. and perhaps a harsh wake up call: bucky’s story hinging around loss of agency issues and trauma in no way shape or form is what would make him woman coded. does it perhaps make him easier for many women to relate to? yes. but is this something exclusive to women? no. a vast majority of trauma victims are going to relate to him, and chalking up trauma to being something female makes me feel really funny.

i know exactly what thread youre talking about lmfao and its right up there on my shit list next to the childlike bucky post. theyre actually very similar now that i think about it ... but anyways. now that ive listed my woes about what doesnt make a character woman coded, what actually would! AND HERE IS WHERE WE GET INTO AN ACTUAL CASE OF WOMAN CODING! mr prequel series anakin skywalker aka my shakespearean downfall dilf. why is he seen as a valid example of woman coding? i will tell you.

the thing about woman coding is that its meant to subvert heteronormative tropes while remaining self aware of that to exploit and emphasize the change. DO YOU HEAR ME? SELF AWARE! anakin is given many of these stupid stereotypical traits i mentioned before, but they arent reliant on physical appearance at all. they are reliant on roles. padme is the levelheaded senate leader, the one with power and stability, while anakin is hotheaded and frankly a bit whimsical while he struggles for his own type of power and control. another classic example of woman coding (which i actually wrote a paper on last semester in my men and masculinities class) is heathcliff from wuthering heights, whose counterpart to his coding is cathy. both men have that whimsicality in common that contrasts heavily with how we would expect them to act. bucky does not act like them at all.

the reason that this is different from bucky and steve’s ‘damsel in distress’ argument is the self awareness i mentioned before. not to mention the weird heteronormative standards being applied as requirements for their gay relationship to be seen as valid because it “fits the narrative” but .. anyways.

anakin and heathcliff both have their subverted traits played up in a way that shows off how ridiculous the women usually written in their roles are forced to act. its tongue in cheek, because woman coding is not only about individual traits, but about how the character interacts with the story because of this as a whole. bucky is often seen as woman coded because he is put into these situations where he is “rescued” by someone that half his stans see as his love interest (steve my baby im sorry) when hes really only rescued maybe twice? at azzano and from the water when the helicopter crashed. only one of those is a real damsel in distress situation. all of the others are cases where hes fighting his own way out ????? bucky doesnt just sit around waiting for a “real man” to get off his ass as that post suggested but i digress.

anyways. mcu stans lack any self awareness that would be required even if bucky and tony were woman coded. calling them woman coded does not count as self awareness! the real self awareness comes with recognizing that woman coding doesnt actually make these characters women and it doesnt mean they forever belong in these “female” roles. mcu stans take the stereotypes they pick out at face value and use them to say “look! bucky is a bottom!” or to continue taking away his agency by ignoring all of his other actions and traits that dont fit in to this mold theyve made around the idea that he needs a man to save him or boss him around. his story as a whole is the only thing that would make him woman coded and seeing as there is no self awareness of this shown, no attempts to subvert, he displays little to no traditionally feminine traits, and loss of agency on its own is not something that only applies to women ...

in short: in my opinion, bucky is not woman coded. mcu stans just like rolling with stereotypes that rely around cis bodies and straight relationships. the end.

#oh also woman coding does not make a mape character trans lmfaoooooo #thats frankly just insulting #trans men are not men with feminine traits please for the love of god shut up #anyways this is my opinion and you dont have to agree but cis people arent allowed to argue with me

[thehumorousace]

hi! hopefully this isn't a stupid question but do you think aces are oppressed? i just want to get some perspectives but you dont have to answer if this is like, discoursey. have a good day :)

You seem genuinely interested so I will answer, but exclusionist dont fucking interact.

Well aces and aros are discriminated against and discrimination is a form of oppression so yes I´d say aces/aros are oppressed.

Aromantic and asexual people face many negative stereotypes and negative attitudes towards their orientation like for example negative feelings or characterisations include dehumanisation (equating aspec people to robots, aliens, plants, or even amoebas), the belief that our orientations are disorders/mental illnesses (and in some medical books asexuality is still categorized as a disorder), the refusal to belief our orientations are genuine valid orientations, that its only a choice/phase, corrective rape/sexual assault to fix us/being pressured by partners to do sexual acts, general lack of understanding and being invisible orientations/lack of awareness.

Just to name some things, and straight aces/aros arent off the hook either since they are NOT cishet they face the same stigma and dehumanisation from cishet people for being queer. And no I will not tag queer as a slur, thats terf rhetoric.

I hope I could explain it, if any followers want to add something that I might have left out you´re welcome

[kuromichad]

also idk how to really explain it but many things, particularly in emo culture, at that time were like... schrodinger’s gay... it was like. you WANTED things to be gay but knew better than to like, believe it, and just the like willingness of pop culture figures to Play with it, and the experience of having fandoms or whatever be excited by it along with you, was basically good enough... i feel like even though i was literally into them at the time and was openly bisexual and also clearly now am trans i like didnt even really comprehend how like gay/gender mcr was until i. saw people talking about it on tumblr like it was kind of a moment of Huh... So it wasn’t like, entirely in my head... does that make any sense. idk how much this was like a matter of the culture at the time (yknow, back when we didnt have gay marriage or like, performative wokeness) objectively vs my own weird lens on it due to not knowing i was trans yet but. Yeah

i think maybe the part that’s difficult to untangle is that like, there is a distinction between ‘doing things that will get you called gay’ and ‘doing things that ARE gay’ and the category of ‘things that will get you called gay’ was so broad and volatile back then. so yeah there were loads of emo bands with dudes who would do ‘things that will get you called gay’ aka wearing makeup, tight pants, singing a certain way, having lyrics about your Feelings. but many of those dudes would let it be called Guyliner, and their Feelings lyrics were still always about girls (and still had the capacity to be misogynist and/or violent), and just generally you could tell that even though they were willing to get Called gay they werent. vs there were other people who didnt like, assert masculinity in the same way, and were noticeably more comfortable in that gnc emo Look than some other guys were (and didn’t abandon it when they got more successful lol), and had less-straight or actively gay lyrics... but like. idk i think at least to me it still just came off like... ‘well i like that these guys arent being distractingly tryhard masc’ and that was it, rather than registering as ‘oh this is gay for real. youre not just like hoping it is or projecting like it’s actually there’ lmao. 

and so i think maybe if youre younger and dont Remember the 2000s like that, you look at the entire scene and youre like well none of these celebrities are like flag-carrying LGBT Activists now, so all of that was Intentional Corporate Queerbaiting, or something... or like that’s not even what that op is saying huh. like they think the specific purpose of mcr (or, im guessing, emo in general) was to like Steal Queer Aesthetics and sell them to the public...? and like, sure, the whole Emo Boys Kissing thing generated profit but in the form of convincing guys who did not want to kiss boys to just dress similar to boys who kiss each other. the only people who actually carried on that part of the trend were like. people with actual gay desires. everyone else was just like being cishet in their emo jeans and feeling very proud about how counterculture they were for letting people call them gay for wearing emo jeans. 

and the homoeroticism and androgyny in emo didnt just. come from nowhere??? it wasnt made up by marketing. if you wanted to accuse a band of selling a gay aesthetic in a straight way you have to go WAY farther down the chain of influence, like when you would end up briefly seeing Guyliner on bands that were making like, cheap top 40 butt rock for dads, because it did eventually become like defanged enough that it was like ‘this is just the thing to do if youre Alternative’ but. actual emo, especially early 2000s emo, especially early 2000s emo boys who were actually willing to kiss boys, were not the ones selling it in a straight way... they were the ones who were (As many gay people are) trendsetting and interesting enough to prompt other people to (whether earnestly or not) take on similar fashion and behaviors in order to like, form community. and that community of ‘people with an Alternative and often gay fashion and music sense’ just happened to get big enough to turn into a money thing

and again, getting mad about emo queerbaiting in 2021 is just completely fucking absurd because everyone at the time was so like cautious and defeatist that even gay people who wanted it to be gay didnt like believe it might actually be gay. this is why i cant stand queerbaiting discourse like bro at the end of the day no matter what it’s just gonna be about You and what You’re bringing to it and you could very easily be overlooking some important shit that’s, yknow, actually there, in the course of chasing after some imagined perfect reward. *2000s internet voice* End rant!

[selfship-pride]

Selfship Pride Spotlight: Sparkyboye

It’s that time again! This time we’ll be featuring our friend Caelum otherwise known as Sparkyboye! Make some noise for mint!

Caelum is a nonbinary, gay, arospec creator here on tumblr that has a knack for making kandi (that you can find here!) and very occasionally drawing (though not so much anymore!). Mint enjoys music (such as vocaloid and K-Pop). Mints really into Cookie Run, Pokemon, Webkinz, fashion, and mints F/O sources!! Mint’s also really nice and approachable with a lot of interesting things to say!

Caelum also has a really neat collection of 24 pronouns that can be found here! I highly recommend looking at them and giving them a whirl! The variety is nice! Be sure to give mint a follow and in ask mint some questions about mints F/Os <3 (who also have alternative pronouns !)

Under the cut you’ll find our interview!! Let’s see what mint has to say!

I should start by asking, What does pride mean to you and your selfships? Tell me more about how it comes into play in your lives!

Caelum: “okay !! for all of us its kinda a big part of our lives ig ? we're all trans n definitely not straight, so if we didn't show pride in any way itd feel to us like we're hidin a part of ourselves. for some showing too much it can cause dysphoria, which mostly happens w gakushuu, katsuki, n occasionally flick.

others like eijirou, denki, n izuku are all really open about being trans. in the way of our sexuality tho we all love showin pride about that !! overall pride is jus kinda,,, really important to us. we tend to get really into it, and the ones that don't get dragged into it hxtdbxjxg bam Loves dragging me n flick (and flick usually drags cj along too) to pride parades while w my other f/os we tend to jus celebrate alone,,, anyways i hope that makes sense hxgsbdh i ramble every time i talk abt them aaaaa”

It sounds like you're a really open bunch. I love it! What do you and your F/Os do to celebrate pride? What sort of things do you wear there? 

Caelum: “yea we try to be !!! as for what we wear at pride, it's all different things. im /massive/ into fashion so i tend to go all-out on my outfit, which definitely includes all my pride kandi.

i also got izuku into kandi, so bun tends to also wear all of buns pride kandi. as for the others tho, most of em dont get rlly into dressin up,,, so i usually dress em up hxtsbsjxg denki likes to wear skirts n stuff on their female days n they have a lot of petticoats so usually i make the ones that arent v outgoing wear them as tutus if theyre comfy. they all tend to be a mess (trying to get bam in anything that isnt sports gear or eijirou into anything that isnt crocs or cargo shorts is very difficult) but it fits all of us together tbh.”

What about the community has helped you express yourself (via your sexuality and gender identity)? 

Caelum: “mm i guess seeing other non-cishet self shippers ? i dont see a lot but which does make me sad, but the ones i do see make me feel rlly comfy here !! n seeing people share their headcanons too, esp since the ones i have mean a lot to me 👉🏻👈🏻 n self shipping in general really helps me figure out n come to terms w my gender n sexuality, n since i am Very Gay for all of my f/os it gives me a spot to show that lmao.”

To sign off, is there any sort of advice you give to selfshippers who are also struggling with their identity or sexuality? Also any last words!!

Caelum: :uhh dont b afraid to try out different labels n stuff ig ?? its almost guaranteed tht ur gon go through many labels, n thats okay !! n it's alright if u think ur something to the point where you're certain thats what you are, but smth changes and u realize u arent that !! just remember tht ur f/os love u jus the way u are, regardless of ur label !! also, dont let anyone tell you how to identify, whether u wan use really broad terms or multiple gender n sexuality labels like me, its all okay !!! :33″

Thank you so much to Caelum for coming out to speak with me! Mint was REALLY patient and I very much appreciate it!

#pride parade spotlight #sparkyboye #GIVE MINT A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR BEING SO COOL!

[normal-thoughts-official]

Ramble ahead: We always hear about what a shitty person C*mille is (rightfully so, no abuser's actions should be forgotten) but we (or I) never hear about other women Magnus has dated. I mean, I think his insecurities are always there, it's very difficult to ignore them, but I'm sure he has dated women that weren't transphobic. Some people like to show Magnus as this person who's never been loved, and that's not true. Alec is different, of course, but he isn't the only person who's loved Magnus.

2/2 lmao Idk, I how do you feel about Magnus's insecurities while dating women? (I feel like dating men is a different subject, maybe with different insecurities)

you are absolutely correct! tbh i feel like we dont talk a lot about the women Magnus has dated because (apart from the malec-centrism) we dont really know about any other than Camille? like his named exes are Camille, George, Freddie Mercury, and I think that's it? i know he has girl exes in the books but i dont go by book canon etc etc

but i totally agree with you that it's very frustrating when people act like all of magnus' exes or even most were abusive or bad like. no! of course Magnus has had plenty of good relationships!!!! thats good and important!! hes been loved and hes been happy before, and that doesnt make Alec (or any of them, really) less special. he's had plenty of happy and fulfilling relationships in varying degrees, just like anyone else, and he VALUES these experiences, or else he wouldnt have his memento box. Magnus' exes are a part of his history and they're important okay, and i hate it when ppl try to erase that (altho i do love talking about Camille cuz you know. slut for angst and particularly exploring abuse and post-abuse dynamics. but you get what i mean). honestly it would be terrible if he's never had any good relationships before Alec, because like, thats horrible? and he deserves better? and it puts a kind of imbalance in their relationship where Magnus needs Alec to be loved, and like, no! i don't want that! I don't think Alec himself would want that! their relationship is healthy because every second they spend together is by choice, because they're their own people and theyre complete, okay, they dont need each other, they choose to be with each other because it makes them both happy

anyway, onto your actual question! i think Magnus has dated less women than men because of the simple fact that well, he's queer, and for most of his life he's lived as a queer man in a time where that was dangerous. so it was harder to find a woman he could date and be comfortable with (since a lot of queer women arent gonna be interested in him anyway) than it was a man, you know

but there are and have always been plenty of bi, not to mention straight-trans women (and bi ofc but that already falls under bi women lol), in the queer community, and i think those were his happiest/most fulfilling relationships with women. gnc woc (the mental image of Magnus dating butches is 😩😩😩👌👌👌👌👌👌) in particular, because, well. they get it

hmmm also the mental image of Magnus dating other immortal butch girls with a similar age is *chef's kiss*. especially gnc trans girls, since he's a gnc trans man himself. idk why but i have soft images in my head of Magnus and a girl sitting on top of a roof looking at night, talking about how gender was perceived in the culture/time each of them was born, and laughing at how crazy it is that things have changed so much, you know? making jokes about how it looks like mundanes can't keep their stories straight cuz every time they turn around there's a new rule, and laughing because they just feel so understood. and it's sweet

and Magnus putting his hands around her waist and laying his head on her shoulder and them just being all soft in this safe little space where they get to be fully themselves free of the constant performance that is existing as a queer poc in the world.... effervescent

of course theres been cishet girls as well (i mean Camille herself is implied to be one) and i feel like thats trickier, cuz cishet girls, well. they have a lot of expectations of what being in a relationship should be like, so many unspoken rules. even if they're not transphobic abusers, and they're actively supportive of him and all the facets of his identity, there's like. this kind of standart that they seem to live be. kind of like, well Magnus is a man, ergo, he will be The Man™®©. I think that would be his main insecurity, like, trying to live by these rules and not disappoint them, afraid that if he's not what they expect he'll lose their respect (even the ones who would never). It can get pretty damn tiring tbh, and i think those tend to last less, or just not be as good because theres either that constant gap, or he has to be guiding them through breaching it, and it can get exhausting

i mean of course thats what friends are for, and its not like these feelings arent present when he's with men, especially white and/or cis ones. not to mention the fact that he's a warlock. he's all but bound to have a partner who doesn't understand certain things because there are so many intersections to his identity, but you know. theres a certain dynamic that comes with Cis Straight Girls™, especially white ones, that's hard to shake off

so i think his main insecurities would be in those relationships, especially because you know, the tiredness of this constant game they might not even realize theyre playing because theyre so used to these unspoken rules also gets to him in general, and sometimes he just wants a break, and he feels a bit guilty about it but it's true (and it doesn't mean he isn't happy with them or doesnt love them, thats normal. but welp, monogamous ideals of love plus insecurities make him feel like if he feels tired of certain things, it means that he doesn't love them enough, and that's Bad™. i think that might also be something that comes up - his fear that hes evil and uncapable of loving, like his father said, because hes not loyal enough, even if he's always been painfully loyal. you know?). not to mention the usual drama of coming out as trans, or the immortality/warlock blues, etc

idk I'm not sure if i answered your question, i feel like this answer is all over the place lol but i did like talking about it so i hope that's worth something? and I'm always interested in the many aspects of Magnus' past and history, so :)

#ask #reluctant-bi #sh #shadowhunters #magnus bane #meta #magnus bane meta #camille belcourt is an abuser

[oathkeptroxas]

Hi girl! Have you received acephobic hate,or is it "just" shit happening on Tumblr in general? 😒

Hey!

I haven’t received any on tumblr directly. I tend to be cautious with who I follow, and tend to unfollow people who post things that are upsetting and hateful. Up until this point I’ve managed to avoid online drama, because in general I simply reblog a couple of informative or positive ace posts and that’s it.

I’m not out in real life. So no one knows that I identify as ace (or bi, but that’s a newer thing for me that i’m still figuring out), even so people who have known me personally have noticed my lack of interest in pursuring people and my lack of participation in sex-centric conversations.

I was at the pub with a group of friends once and my friend Charlotte was talking about how difficult it has been for her to find a girlfriend and asked if I knew anyone I could set her up with, she’s a really fun, confident and forward person who’s comfortable with herself and she made a quip about wondering if she’d ever lose her virginity, which then spiralled into a sex topic within our group. And my cousin had recently come out as gay and was becoming a lot more comfortable sharing his sexual experiences within the group so the conversation was something that everyone was engaged in and it was really animated and positive, one of the straight girls in the group had previously tried anal so her and my cousin and another gay male friend were jokingly “swapping notes”, just being drunk friends mostly and joking around.

I listened intently but I didn’t want to participate personally because it’s not something that I’m comfortable with. I’m sex-indifferent. So i am not averse to sex and have had sexual encounters in the past. But sometimes it just gets a little too much and makes me uncomfortable and i’m not open to sharing my personal life like that.

So when they noticed my lack of participation Charlotte asked if I was okay and like….before I could respond my cousin just jumped in “Jodie doesn’t need sex like the rest of us.” And then pretty much continued speaking like I wasn’t even there and said it in such a way that it made me feel fucking worthless, like I was defective and less than they were and I wasn’t worth participating in their conversations. It literally ruined my mood for the whole night. And he didn’t even know I identify as ace.

My sister is nasty. She was a bully in school, she’s a proud self-proclaimed “bitch” and she fights dirty. She says things she KNOWS will hurt you, just to get a reaction. The word fat was literally banned from our house when we were kids because she’d call me it so often. Despite the fact I’m one size above national British average and me and my sister now SHARE clothes. She used that against me because she knew it fucked me up. To be honest, most of my self harm and self hatred probably stems from that, nothing triggers me like the word fat does.

And once she was bragging about how much sex she’s had and how her tampon fell out ‘cause she’s so lose? And 1) she’s my little sister I do not wanna know. 2) the vagina is a muscle that contracts back after childbirth, self-lubricates and loosens when aroused, and tampons come in different sizes and women have different set vaginas? Sex has very very little to do with it.

So, anyway, i just suggested that maybe the wrong size tampon had been brought (she came on abruptly in public and ran to a store toilet whilst my mum bought her tampons - and my mum has poor eyesight and can’t read without glasses and its very likely she picked up the first she could find without trying to read the box).

Anyway, after making that suggestion my sister got like? Irrationally pissed? As if I was like? Calling her a liar or whatever? And started screaming about how “JUST BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS YOU! YOU’LL UNDERSTAND ONE DAY IF SOMEONE ACTUALLY WANTS YOU” and basically implied/assumed that my seeming lack of relationship/seeking out sexual encounters was because people didnt want me and i’m fat and undesirable, basically. My sister regularly makes fun of people who are celibate. We watch shows where people have abstained for personal or religious or political reasons and my sister scoffs and belittles and acts like these people are lesser. There’s no way I can tell her I’m ace.

Everytime I go to a house party people want to play Never Have I Ever, which literally makes me so uncomfortable I can’t breathe. And they all try to pressure me into it anyway and I often end up drinking alone in another room so they can play. Luckily, over the last year my friend Jack (who usually hosts the parties) has been dating this great guy James. And James doesn’t like the game either, he’s just a bit more private than the others and doesn’t know Jack’s friends well enough for them to know those things about him, and he thinks the game’s a little tacky. So me and him just go for a smoke and gossip while they play.

But i feel like i’m suffocating under this all the time. Looking for “plausible”/socially acceptable reasons for not wanting/thinking the way my friends do.

I can’t pursue the guy I like who’s interested in me because I overheard him drunkenly telling his friend how he hasn’t had sex in 3 years and I’ve been panicking ever since because I don’t know if that’s something I can give him and I fear I’m not desirable without it - or worse case scenario, he tries to force himself on me to “prove” that I just “haven’t met the right person/had the right experience yet”.

I just feel like I’m choking on this thing all the time because I know if I told anyone they’d never take my word for it, they’d assume something happened to “make me this way”. They’d say I was a “late bloomer”. And my homophobic parents and possibly some of my friends wouldn’t believe I’m ace but would think i’m just gay and in denial. And i know a lot of gay people have previously identified as ace because they were dealing with internalized homophobia and maybe it was easier to accept they felt no attraction than it was to realize they felt the “wrong” kind by society’s standards. But that’s not the fault of ace people. It’s the fault of a toxic society that hates everything that isn’t the cis straight white default that it has the rest of us turning on each other. It’s also common for gay people to initially identify as bi because they’re dealing with internalized homophobia and think bi is easier because they can retain the illusion that they still also feel the “right” kind of attraction. But bisexuals arent to blame for that anymore than ace/aros are.

And i hate that people say they support aces as long as theyre not cishet and it’s like???? I’m bi so i’m not het but what those people are basically saying is “i accept part of your identity”……that’s not supporting me. That’s just gonna fuck up my mental/emtional state even further. And if someone is aro/ace its literally impossible for them to be het? If they experience no romantic or sexual attraction then they feel none of those things for the “opposite” sex, and cannot be het. So calling them that is insulting and invalidating their identity.

And i don’t understand the whole “we accept and welcome actual cis and straight identifying allies who wish to support our cause but aces can choke”? I get that allies are important because closeted lgbt youth can attend events under the guise of “ally” BUT ally and closeted are not synonymous, because if they became so it wouldnt be a cover at all.

#asexuality #ace stuff #ask to tag #long post

[jonghyyn]

1)this fandom turned to be disturbing yall only care about shinee sexual orientation and gender when its not of anyone's business. you spend all ur time on fighting over their personal matters instead of enjoying their music and what they give us. both sides acting like what they say is confirmed facts nd when one of shinee say random names or look at someone you act like they want to have sex with them nd yall act that the only attraction is sexual or romantic

2)the side that gets angry of the possibility that shinee are queer is homophobic nd not all idols has to be cis. the side that gets angry at the possibility that shinee might be like girls is weird coz we don't know these idols in real life no matter what they say or share with us

3) as an pan-aro nd part of lgbt its lowkey skeevy for me that shawols are painting shinee as lgbt icons when they only did basic decent things but in no way they r lgbt icons. yall literally could be calling a hetero guys an lgbt icons. I get wanting to connect more with them nd wanting representation but its not like this. actual lgbt people get killed nd a lots of lgbt people are fighting for our rights with little support bc we r looking in representation somewhere else we r not sure about

4) and please don't start with the closet talk bc I know how dangerous for an idol to come out but the idols u think they r queer might not be queer in the first place and if they were we have no right to want to them out too, at the end we don't know their sexualities. what am I saying is both opinions should be treated as headcanons not as confirmed facts nd this whole issue shouldn't have got that big. also neurodivergent idols headcanons should be respected too

tbh i dont even know what ur..trying 2 say by this?? i dont understand how youre like Yeah, Headcanons! but when ppl talk about headcanons ur like no...i didnt mean it like that... i mean it honestly baffles me how you reconcile these two things. if u respect ppls abilities to have headcanons youve also got to accept ppls ability to Talk about them as headcanons?? getting in discussions w ppl who say every idol Must be straight or cis isnt fighting w someone over shinees orientations Specifically, its fighting against the bigotry involved in this line of thinking. arguing w ppl who say “___ Msut be cishet” is not saying “_____ must not be cishet” its saying to question what motivates ppl to say the first thing. its not really About shinee exclusively bc its applicable to every single idol, and tbh every single person. its a discussion larger than any one particular person. i think this is an aspect that a lot of ppl miss.  

also i truly dont know when ive ever acted like attraction can only be sexual or romantic bc i rly have not. talking about how queer idols Exist is not demanding idols be out. its acknowledging a reality that is hardly ever acknowledged. like. ignoring queerphobia is Not whats going to make it easier for idols to come out, discussing how queerphobia manifests in the idol industry is what will. 

it really tires me when ppl pull out the U Spend All Ur Time Doing This, we’re all here for the music!! enough of that!! because while thats true, we all did become connected through shinee through music, a part of being an Active participant in fandom for many ppl is also like...talking about stuff besides their music. we’re here for their music but the Reason ppl blog about them and do shit like make gifs or edits or fics or what have u is bc they also care about the members themselves. their music is a given. i also like mamamoos music a whole ton, but i dont have a blog dedicated 2 mamamoo bc i am not As invested in the band members as i am in shinee. which isnt to say that every stan has to get involved w this specific discourse or even discourse in general, just that stans often Do get involved w non-musicy things in the process of stanning.

why is it that only queer headcanons are policed to this level...why is it only queer headcanons are met w Listen To Their Music Instead ! instead of the numerous other things ppl involved in fandom do that dont directly relate to their music. why dont u tell gif makers that theyre Too Obssesed w shinees faces and to go listen to their music instead. ppl do shit like “boyfriend imagines” for shinee which are 1000% unrelated to their music and tbh effectively function as Headcanons except youll never see ppl respond to that with Go Listen To Their Music Instead! while its not always (although it. often is lmfao) explicitly said, a lot of bf imagines are implicitly cishet and i feel like this is undoubtedly why those are accepted w/o word. bc ppl find being cishet ‘more polite’ and ‘less intrusive.’ when u make being queer a taboo to talk about (whilst simultaneously accepting anyone that talks about being cishet) u are basically saying that it is more acceptable to be cishet, while being queer is something that ought to be kept private. if ur truly adamant that this is about not spending enough time enjoying shinees music, then id like 2 see u come at every single other thing in fandom that has nothing to do w music. every time you see someone say “hey jonghyun would make a great bf” remind that person they shldnt care about something like that and shld instead be supporting shinees music. in any case, you ought to examine what makes u think that someone being queer is taboo to speak of while not rallying against statements like ‘he would be a great bf 2 his girlfriend.’

anyway i agree that ultimately what people are doing is making. headcanons. ive always agreed w this fact? this is a thing i continually say?? its why im not out there to Objectively Prove that jonghyun is gay or bi or whatever. the reason people respond to statements like ‘no jonghyun is not gay hes a straightie hetero’ with ‘no ur wrong’ bc the first statement is one that is Constantly enforced by society and it just functions as a way 2 shut down queer voices and reassert the heterosexual default present Everywhere. society treats straight as the absolute default. this is why straight “Headcanons” arent treated as well lmao... headcanons. theres rly no reason for anyone out there 2 headcanon something as straight?? when its the Assumed Sexuality in every situation?? tbh the only reason ppl are interested in doing that is Denying that idols might not be straight. doing this when ppl are Forced 2 be straight is gross. theres a difference between queer ppl saying Hey, remember not all idols are straight so lets talk about that and straight ppl being all No! ur wrong! he cant be anything but straight so shut up! these two things are coming from different perspectives. 

like. imagine a pie being sliced up. historically, a 100% of this pie has been given to straight people. when queer ppl speak up, theyre trying to take some of their fair share of this pie. saying Hey, queer ppl exist!! is trying to section urself out a piece of the pie when youve been given none. someone saying Nope!! theyre all definitely straight is stealing back the measly slices someone has Actively Fought to obtain and attempting to perpetuate this imbalance. 

im not rly here for ppl painting shinee as lgbt icons. ive expressed how annoying i find statements like ‘king of the gays’ or whatever to be. but also just. saying that anyone in shinee might be lgbtq is not painting them as an lgbtq icon?? its just stating a fact?? esp since a lot of the King of The Gays ! stuff seems to come from ppl who position him as a Amazing Cishet Ally so. idek buddy i feel like youve got to further think through some of your positions bc some seem to be in direct conflict with others. 

#long post #i am unable to be concise literally ever #but anyway my dude. how can u accept that headcanons are okay but also expect ppl to like..never talking about them... #i agree all headcanons should be respected but this sort of requires ppl being allowed to talk about their headcanons u know ? #i truly feel like youve got 2 work through some of this stuff and think it through #ppl talking about headcanons doesnt mean they dont care about other things #i definitely do #its just that the only thing im Interrogated on is headcanons and im a rather long winded person so ill answer as such #while im a Discourse Prone person and i discourse a lot of this #(mostly- like i said earlier abt- whats going on Conceptually bc Thats the most important thing here its not a shinee exclusive subject) #but someone could hold the same opinions i do w/o necessarily discoursing about them (and i kno ppl that are like that in fact) #anon #ask

[colorisbyshe]

"The slow, slow death of MOGAI brings a tear to my wee lil eye" what do you mean with this? o: genuine question bc doesnt the term MOGAI include gay trans etc? isnt it the same as lgbtq? perhaps like more inclusive including aces and intersex people, who arent inherently lgbtq, therefore differing from lgbt but,, its not a problematic group of identities right? are you like against the term? i'm just confused not disagreeing or w/e

I mean? MOGAI is problematic because of the identity politics within it. MOGAI tends to encourage unnecessary micro identities with the end goal including all of them as LGBT and therefore suggesting that they’re all even RELATIVELY equally marginalized when that just isn’t true. It’s all inclusive policies fuck up gender and identity politics by insisting we’re better off if we work together with everyone–including every cishet who feels a bit special that day. And it ends up being a mockery of everything we worked for.

A lithromantic heterosexual who ‘only enjoys relationships in theory’ isn’t oppressed or even discrimination against but MOGAI would see them as marginalized and pretends that LGBT people need to share spaces with them because ~we all have problems to work out.

They break down things like romantic vs sexual vs aesthetic vs sensual vs platonic attraction which isn’t healthy, especially for neurodivergent young LGBT people who can use that to foster internalized homophobia/transphobia(/ableism/misogyny/fatphobia/racism).

And it’s just… bad? Breaking down your identity into 20 different disparate pieces with the sole purpose of oversharing who you are to strangers who don’t have your best interest in mind isn’t healthy and it isn’t a way to understand yourself or to form a community. A lithromantic heterosexual who is aceflux has nothing in common with like… a gay trans man.

It’s also just disrespectful in general to the idea of the LGBT community, which was forged together by people facing the same oppression when we were experiencing police raids on our safe spaces and were, y’unno, actually being targeted. So, previous generations DIED for this coalition and put a lot of thought into why the L and the G and the B and the T would come together and then some prick with two gender studies classes under their belt went, “what if I blogged about how bi-aesthetic people (ie ppl who think more than two genders are pretty but could not be romantically OR sexually attracted to them…s o everyone) are marginalized by heteropatriarchal media.” 

It’s tone deaf. It is ahistorical. It is so deeply unaware of actual LGBT and gender politics in terms of misogyny and homophobic/transphobic oppression that it is insulting.

It’s a fucking mess and largely it is pushed either by young kids who don’t know better or 30 year olds who think Queer Theory is something we should still take seriously and pretend that being 5 year old during the AIDS Crisis makes them enough of an expert on LGBT history that we should listen to them.

It’s disgraceful.

#mogai #ace discourse #ace pride #ace psdljghsdgl #anonymous