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#different standards different morals
autumnsxxangel · 8 months
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I'll be 100% real with you guys. Early 20s me would ABSOLUTELY be friends with this group. Maybe not like close friends, but party buddies? Hell yeah!
Ray is the reason you would never pay for a drink. He's an alcoholic and rich. Go to the club? He's bought a table and got bottle service. He's got a bottle with his name on it behind the counter of every bar in Bangkok and then some. You're drinking for free and you're drinking good shit, too. (He's also got the good drugs if you're into that)
Cheum is the reason you'd be blacked out drunk. You're like "no, I'm drunk, I should leave" and she'd be like "bitch one more shot" and then it's suddenly six shots later and you can't remember your name.
Boston IS the drama. He causes drama, he lives the drama, and then he tells you about it in excruciating detail the next morning while you're both sipping mimosas, trying to get rid of your hangover. (He will also tell you about his sexual encounters in vivid details and you'll never be able to look your classmates in the eyes again...except then you do)
Mew's the one that's always slightly too sober, but because of that, he'll sit there and listen to your drunk ramblings. He's also the one that remembers everything that happened so that you can be reminded of it the next day. (The most important friend, really, because otherwise you won't have stories to tell)
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some-pers0n · 4 months
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You can just say it's a mistake. It's so much worse to try and excuse it
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singingcicadas · 2 months
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I find it super ironic that Cyclonus has this highly romanticized, propagandic view of the Decepticons, because like:
This is him 🔽
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And this is also him 🔽
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Dude you yourself was a member of the ruling elite of the old order. Even if what you said about the Decepticons were all true, you're a big part of why people needed to be emancipated in the first place.
He was part of Nova Prime's inner cadre during a time when bigotry and oppression was even more predominant. Nova. who's literally the founder of functionism, which flourished and peaked under the so-called Golden Age of his rule. And Galvatron's... Galvatron, I don't even want to talk about him everyone knows what he's like. But Cyclonus was somehow fine with being yes-man to both?
The way he spoke about the Decepticons, it sounded as if he's this super dedicated sjw filled with righteous passion about stuff like liberation and revolution and emancipation and 'the people', when in truth it's shown that he'd never cared about any of those things before that point.
Nova Prime's ideology was literally this:
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And Cyclonus didn't have a problem with it during his entire life before the Ark, compared to more decent people like Dai Atlas and Omega Supreme who eventually clashed with their group and got kicked off the Ark b/c they couldn't stand Nova and co.'s lack of a bottom line and misuse of the word freedom.
As a matter of fact Cyclonus still believed in Nova Prime after he became Nemesis - not that he was much of a better person as Nova. Where's his sense of justice against corruption? Nova got turned into a literal demon, surely it's hard to get more corrupted than that. But his only complaint wasn't about what Nova/Nemesis was trying to do, it's about the process being too much of a damn ordeal.
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He's super excited over the anticipation of murder and has no scruples whatsoever about killing non-combatants. The same thing happened again at Kimia.
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He finally grew enough of a conscience to break off from Galvatron in the end but notice his wording. It's not 'you forced me to hurt people', it's 'you forced me to hurt Cybertron'. He even said Cybertron twice for emphasis.
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It's not mind control, he just thinks like that. The guy's obsessed with Cybertron - with what Cybertron once was. The Cybertron he lived in. Nova Prime's Cybertron. The Golden Age. He's shown to repeatedly lament over it in his internal monologues.
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It's all about the loss of his 'perfect world.' The infrastructure. the scenery. the Tetrahexian real estate lmao. How about let's feel some sadness for the billions of Cybertronians who once lived on it? When did he ever spare a thought for all the people who died?
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The Decepticons worked so hard to destroy this. It's a gilded carcass rotting from the inside. It eats people alive. The rot was already there in his own time. He was complacent in putting it there. But he only had eyes for the beauty and nolstalgia.
In the first panel he lauded the Decepticons for wanting radical change. Well he himself seemed to be dead set against change judging by the way he kept wanting things to go back the way they were 8 million years ago.
Back in the Golden Age he would not have looked twice at a bot like Tailgate. He was part of the people who didn't give a shit about the disappearance of one waste disposal bot. He still wouldn't have given a shit if circumstances hadn't forced them together over and over again.
Looks to me he's enarmored with the grandness of the concepts of liberation and revolution and emancipation for 'the people' in the Decepticons' (theoretical) ideology. The concepts of fighting against corruption and bringing down the old order. Just like how he bought into the concepts of Nova's 'spreading freedom to the galaxy' and the glittering prosperity of the 'Golden Age.' Does he know that the Decepticon ideology is a twisted lie built on terror and massacres and genocide and despotism? Does he know that Nova's idea of spreading freedom and enlightenment is galactical conquest and his beloved Golden Age is built upon a foundation of misery and suffering and systematic subjugation? Of course he knows he's not stupid. He's nose-deep in it, it's virtually impossible not to. But he's able to willfully ignore those ugly truths as well as his role in them by only engaging in shallow romanticism through rose-coloured lens and refusing to delve deeper.
It's either that or imperalist mindset and the endorsement of violence and casual murder resonates hard.
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ganymedesclock · 1 year
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To explain The Goblin Problem and not go on a tag rant on someone else's reblog, I will explain it in the nutshell.
The Goblin Problem is when a story establishes a group of creatures to serve as recurrent antagonists (not necessarily all one species; in a lot of rpg games this can broadly apply to "monsters") THAT:
Are never negotiable, or the negotiable parties among them are Token Heroic Orcs- that is to say, they are seen as objectors or 'good' versions who have absolutely no connections to, and hold no objections toward you attacking, the rest of their brethren, who they have forsaken as the price to be paid for being good.
Have obvious unique technology; they may attack you with weapons found nowhere else in the game, demonstrate the ability to speak, have their own obvious language, tame a creature that nobody else tames so that it's thus impossible that they are stealing already-tamed specimens from someone else
Are characterized primarily or exclusively as raiders who attack others, with the justification this means they are inferior creatures parasitically dependent on Good, Civilized Settings, e.g. they cannot possibly be sustainably hunting, gathering, or practicing either nomadic or settled agriculture.
Are often defined as having no choice to be evil or are created by a greater evil to serve as thralls, and yet, will not under any circumstances be regarded as indoctrinated victims, or if that is mentioned, there will nonetheless be an overarching lack of narrative concern as to where or how the survivors should live after the greater evil is taken care of, or if effort should be made to challenge the indoctrination and give them the ability to choose their lives.
What this ultimately creates is that they are unambiguously people, who obviously check all the marks of sapience, who are quite possibly wearing clothes, but the goblin or orc exists as a stopgap. You want your fantasy hero to get into a swordfight but you don't want him to kill another human being. So you invent something that wields a sword but is in some way "not a person", which is senseless. Unless you want the nature of this swordfight to be that a chimpanzee picked up a knife, at which point they are not going to use reliable sword techniques.
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utilitycaster · 7 months
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Sort of a distant tangent off my post about Ashton, but I'm growing more and more suspicious of the fandom claim that there's no time for small RP moments in Campaign 3. I do think that it's been challenging to get deeper party bonding or serious conversations that aren't about the big philosophical questions they're facing, since those do take much more time; but then I think about Calamity, or Candela Obscura. I can genuinely give you at least a couple paragraphs about pretty much every relationship in the two Circles, or in the Ring of Brass. I can also point to no shortage of small moments between characters in the Mighty Nein Aeor or Vox Machina Vecna endgame episodes, which were all extremely plot-heavy and fast-paced, and D20 consistently nails character relationships in a fraction of the time.
I think it really does come down to, as Brennan Lee Mulligan always says, the character creation phase. Laying down a solid groundwork in which everyone has a detailed, rich backstory and sense of personality and relationship history (in the case of characters who knew each other prior to the start of the series) is absolutely crucial, and even in the case of characters who don't know each other before going in, a good amount of time spent in character creation ensures that it's easier for them to develop those interpersonal relationships on the fly. I know in actual play there's some degree of finding the character as you play, but there are games for which there is a very short runway, and I don't think it ever hurts to do more extensive character prep than the bare minimum. And if there are gaps, I think it also helps to go back and fill those in mid-way, away from the table - Travis clarifying Chetney's backstory being a great example that allowed the history of Chetney and Deanna to feel realized and full, despite only a few episodes.
I'll also be blunt: most of the time when people complain that there aren't moments because the plot keeps moving...they're mad about shipping. Which has always rung hollow to me. It was a common complaint in C2, that no time was taken for character relationships, despite them taking an entire half of an episode for the Beauyasha date and despite no shortage of moments for all three of the other couples (and plenty of platonic moments between friends). The issue was never a lack of time; it was that the characters they wanted to talk to each other didn't actually have the relationship in canon that the fans had dreamed up, and so, when the chips were down, they went to other people.
It takes two seconds to say something like "I hold their hand", even in the middle of plot-heavy adventuring. If someone doesn't say it, it's rarely the GM rushing them; it's the player either choosing not to do so, or not remembering to do so, and either of those is quite revealing regarding how the player feels about that relationship and where it stands in their priorities.
#i've felt this for a while but like. fundamentally? C3 is just...uniquely not set up for terribly satisfying shipping#even the ships I do like and that get small moments are relatively background#like 80% of quote unquote ship content is like. fanon goggles overlaying either parallel play or standard battle mechanics#which is fine! I think it's a different vibe and approach than the past 2 campaigns#i think especially in character creation; self-insert or easy for new players (c1)#followed by Morally Gray Campaign; Prove We Can Replicate This Success; Serious Characters (C2); followed by Let's Get Silly With It (C3)#which is less conducive to that profound connection of c1 or c2. which is not a bad thing!#but god. if you complain about the D&D show having too much d&d plot and not enough romance...yeah pal it's d&d not a dating sim#like I enjoy when there is romance in my fantasy but it's not a requirement. there is a genre full of romance. it is called romance.#i'm also thinking about this bc I need to watch wot s2 but i've been told that the fandom has gotten weird#like wow so moiraine/siuan is not the A plot? in a high fantasy Good vs. Evil series? WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT.#getting back to this...i'm also thinking about my own life and like. i moved to where i live not long pre-lockdown#and so i'm finding myself a resident of this area for 4+ years but with weaker connections than i'd have otherwise. and that's fine!#but psychologically i feel so weird about just starting to find my place bc it's been so long even though there's a good reason#and i wonder if the cast/Hells feels the same way ie why are we only just bonding now 70 eps in and so they're hesitant#that I Waited Too Long And Now It's Awkward feeling; that I Should Be Past This By Now fallacy#which. again. i think things early on could have been done differently but that time is past you need to live in the present now.#cr tag
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gurorori · 7 months
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tbh it's still crazy 2 see progressive (ie western slash european & american i guess? yanno wat i mean. places wher we r nawt radicalised & illegalised into it oblivion) audiences have such (understandably) high standards 4 queer media or even queer representation as a whole & won't take less than. like i understand it's cause ya can expect better so ya will, in sum cases ya can even demand better. but it's simply nawt an option 4 many of us.
like idk perhaps a bit too harsh of me 2 say but regardless of the political atmosphere there's still a difference between livin' in a place where ya still have rights, have pride & can walk into a store etc & find queer literature & rep & even merch, have resources 2 support yrself & find yr community. & a place where as much as wavin' a pride flag or even havin' a pride pin, OR G-D FORBID holdin' yer partner's hand WILL get ya arrested & jailed. an' yr lucky if ya don' get assaulted or killed be4 dat can happen ��
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hiemaldesirae · 8 months
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one of the major problems i find with online discourse about antagonistic characters and storylines sourcing from novels is that some people cant see past what is said to what is meant- and that other people can, but in their perception of the implied lore, make overdue assumptions of plot and character.
for example: in svsss, it is heavily implied that qiu jianluo s/a'ed the original shen qingqiu, thus shaping his outlook on society in general: females are safe, males are not. this leads to point against him in the form of his favouritism for ning yingying, the only (afaik) female qing jing disciple and his habit of finding comfort in brothels. this is misconstrued by the original protagonist in the novel pidw, leading to a false misconception held by our protagonist, shen yuan, that shen qingqiu is a lecherous paedophile.
as the reader, there are a number of context clues given to tell us how that is not the case-- mostly found in the extras-- and are meant to challenge the worldview, make us realize that like shen yuan, we as the audience only know as much as the author will tell us. did shen jiu hate luo binghe specifically because his name reminded him of qiu jianluo? was he jealous of the potential luo binghe had? or was he merely looking for a target to take his anger out on?
it is not mentioned, therefore we do not know, and should not make assumptions on the canon behaviour of this character towards someone else.
however, this is often not understood by the overall fandom: either they completely look past the context clues that tell us, this character is more than they seem and instead jump straight to demonization without first considering context and setting, or they overcompensate for someone by making excuses to justify behaviour we do not have explanations for.
this is the reason why we have people who constantly demean and bully others in fandom: they cannot read or think for themselves past what is clearly shown to them and refuse to challenge the idea that the author may be deliberately feeding unreliable information to make a more interesting story, and it doesnt help that there are people attempting to justify behaviour that is specifically written to be bad.
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fictionadventurer · 8 months
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An underrated benefit of love triangles is that they allow you to have a love story where the ending isn't immediately obvious. In your standard romance, the two leads meet, and then it's just a matter of time until they hit the plot beats that lead to the happily ever after. But the love triangle gives you two plotlines! Two different dynamics! Two valid directions for the plot to veer that will still lead to a romantic happy ending without that ending being a foregone conclusion.
The main character can grow and change in multiple different ways because there are two men on equal standing with her, who can have an influence on her in different ways, giving her multiple different lenses to help her understand who she is and who she really wants to be. When it's done right, the story will be satisfying no matter what the endgame is, because the point is going along on the journey and seeing who the characters become. And the great thing is that you don't know who they'll become because there are two valid options, so the entire story can be surprising, which is so refreshing when so many love stories are so predictable.
#random thought of the day#books#ignoring the multiple books i'm in the middle of should-be-reading#i dove into the only other una silberrad book available on ebook#('the good comrade' if you want to know)#and i'm a quarter of the way through#we've met two possible love interests#and i'm thrilled to find that i have no idea what endgame is going to be#there's one that i'm probably leaning toward that's a bit more standard enemies-to-lovers who enjoy intellectual sparring#but the other option is a *lot* like the love interest in her other book#i don't know if she'd be happy with him but he's going to have a huge effect on her character arc#and honestly she'd probably be a better person with him#both options would be satisfying endings so i can just settle back and go along for the ride#a theme i'm finding in her work (at least these two books) is what happens when people with different moral systems collide#people who are ruled by morality vs people ruled by convention vs people ruled by honor#and people who have different ideas of what they mean by all these things#different definitions of what they mean by right and wrong#and how their worlds are shaken when they interact with each other and find different ways of viewing things#and it makes for *really* satisfying romances because it's about how these people clash and collide and change each other#i'm not even sure she's doing it on purpose because these books are really rather slight#but the somewhat shallow style secretly offers a lot of ways to dive deeper#but it only really comes out later when you find yourself thinking about it after the book is shut#it's not necessarily obvious in the flow of the plot#i don't know how it works but it's fascinating
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clonerightsagenda · 1 year
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It still fascinates me that at the end of FMA Ling Yao just.... walks off with a philosopher's stone.
It's in-character for him, certainly. His willingness to be cutthroat, including cutting his own, is what makes him one of the more interesting characters to me. But the plot turns on the philospher's stone and dismantling its bloody hold on the country. The 'good' characters who use one typically agonize over it or provide justifications beforehand. Ed just finished having a crying breakdown about refusing to do so. And Ling's like 'k bye!' and everyone goes 'great! nice knowing you!'. It doesn't even trigger an infamous Edward Morality Monologue. And while the people within the other stones have been major plot points, we have no idea who's in this one.
Ling wants to rule an empire, and empires are built on people's lives. If FMA is a 'are we the baddies' story, some people look at the system they're in and go, ok, fine, I can work with that. It's true, it's interesting, but I'm not sure the narrative means for it to be taken that way?
Like, is this an uncomplicated happy ending being handed out because it's the finale? Is it choosing to use unethically obtained power in the hopes of making improvements within a wretched system? Is it a Bad End? I don't require stories to provide me with pre-packaged moral judgments and the lack of one here is why I like turning it over in my brain, but it's also weird to me because the story takes such a strong stance on this issue everywhere else! Ling Yao's personal brand of morality is so powerful it warps the entire narrative around it apparently.
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roscoehamiltons · 2 months
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i've been seeing people say "not everyone can be lewis" in response to what the drivers have been saying in the press conference and media, and what i don't understand is: why not? what's stopping them from speaking about different issues? why is it that lewis is expected and able to be well spoken about various issues in the paddock yet suddenly when it comes to other drivers it's 'oh well he's not lewis so that's the best they can do 🤷🏻‍♀️'
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cpunkhobie · 5 months
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white middle class to wealthy people are so crazy to me like. How are you so alienated from the system you live under
#jonah with a megaphone#Ik why it’s because of the racial and class hierarchy and how the system is built to support certain people and harms others etc etc etc.#ik why#But like. On a personal level howd u lack just that much critical thinking. Why dont you get that we hate the system but still live under#It. This is mostly about that post that got mad at people for hiring cleaners and then tried to say like. The people who did were lazy#Etc. but then the conversation devolved into how it was actually racist to hire undocumented people as cleaners or anything and like.#You understand conceptually that undocumented people deserve the same rights and privileges and protections as documented citizens but you#Don’t. Get structurally. and realistically. That we are still living under a system where those rights aren’t available to them#So you’re saying that they just. Shouldn’t be fucking hired??? That people shouldn’t fucking pay them for their goods and services???#im not talking about like. Walmart which is a megacorp where the morals and standards we view them are completely different#im talking about immigrants running their own businesses and people saying people using those services are exploitative like. Do you hear#yourself. You’re saying they shouldn’t be fucking paid. You’re saying they shouldn’t be getting their own work. Do you hear yourself#your ideas of race and class is so alienated from actual reality it’s baffling. How do you live like that#mixed kid rage
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psalmsofpsychosis · 1 year
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listen i know the fandom loves their Mand'alor Din Djarin, but the idea of an actual canon king din djarin will forever be hilarious to me because out of everything the writers explored in his character, the single most consistent trait that keeps showing up for him is that he's highly unpredictable.
Like, from the very starting moment in the series he constantly makes drastic left turns in his judgement and breaks any percieved notion you have of him, and then he just keeps breaking the audience's mental structure around his character. You think he shows up and is quiet and distant? he pops up behind his bounty like a murderer and forcibly shoves him into a carbonite case. okay so this guy is cold and ruthless. except that he shows up very obedient and offering to the Tribe, gives all his earnings away, and has a whole internal mental breakdown in 3minutes. so he's vulnurable? nah, he actively hunts his teammates for sport because they finally pissed him off for good. BUT he also removes his pouldron so a child he's barely known for two days can sleep soft on his shoulder. A child that he took back by basically causing the death of his entire tribe, which he had sworn his life to by the way. First thing established in the series is him hating droids, and less than 30 minutes in he not only cooperates with and keeps a droid from dying, he also lifts him up, checks his circuits, asks about his wellbeing and whether he needs help. And 5 minutes later he shoots him dead.
This guy is so unpredictable, he has a moral code but noone has any idea what the fuck makes the list, least of all himself. Any barrier you make around his character he consistently breaks it and does the exact opposite. He's a rule breaker and anti-structure by default, never once does he hesitate to fuck shit up by the whim of his... something. Can't tell you if it's his heart of his mind or his gut because he's not consistent between the three of them either. When you think he's a self-serving individual, he turns around and saves a child, when you think he's a man of responsibility and community he makes a 180 turn and leaves everyone in the dust. And like, yeah. The anchor of Din Djarin's character is that when he can, he breaks routine procedure and structure.
And to have someone who consistently undermines stable paradigms become an enforcer of rules and boundaries and regulations? peak comedy honestly.
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lemonduckisnowawake · 3 months
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Me, today: I will not get angry about people slandering Jesus. I will not lose my temper seeing yet another post throwing His character in the garbage as some politically woke or politically conservative people pleaser. I will not stab my hand with a fork when I see people poking fun at his friendships as homoerotic - *sees a post like that and slowly steps out of the internet*
No seriously. I am shaking the screen and BEGGING people to remember that even though Western Christian traditionalism has deep, *deep* wrongs, There Are Literal People Dying And Being Tortured Because Of Their Faith In Christ In The Modern World. And the way I see people making light of faith and outright mocking it or "dumbing it down" to appeal to their own moral worldview is sometimes kind of painful
#lemon duck quacks#i need a salt tag so people can block that....#I'll think of one later#anyway yeah....sometimes the things i see western folk doing to Christianity makes me sigh#what is it about humanity's need to make a mockery out of the things we disagree with?#I've caught myself doing it sometimes too and it's just sad#like I've seen people make mockery out of Eastern spirituality and religions or Islam or something#and it DOES make me mad#especially when I see adherents of those religions trying to placate people by going#'oh our worldview DOES actually support yours! we're friendly to your political stance :)'#when no. NO. you guys don't have to defend your worldview like that???#worldviews are called such because they're different and there WILL be times when moralities clash against each other!#DRAMATICALLY#and it's up to you to see if you can keep being friends/interacting with someone who has a drastically different moral standard than you#and if you can't there is no reason to try and make their religion/worldview fits yours or whatever#this is aimed at Christians too who try and force non-Christians to see things through their perspective btw#also just because you hate someone's viewpoint because it's objectively wrong to you doesn't mean you have to mock it or them#by all means try and deconstruct it if you want but stop making fun of it or pretending you know eeeeeverything about their worldview#sorry you guys i am VERY salty#maybe a tad bit angry but mostly salty#anyway you religious people who have studied your texts and persist in living it out even if it doesn't conform to the western world's#political worldviews (whether liberal or conservative in the us or uk or etc sense) have all my respect and 'hwaiting's#stars I'm so salty i could perseve my own meat with it
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secretmellowblog · 1 year
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Random, but. It’s fascinating how “Valjean and Javert written by someone who thinks cops are Good” is so radically different from “Valjean and Javert written by someone who thinks cops are Bad.”
Like, for me the number one Thing that will determine whether I enjoy someone’s take on Valjean and Javert are whether they realize that the police/prison as an institution destroyed both of their lives, and is the villain of both of their stories XD.
But yeah it’s really fascinating! Both in adaptations and in fanfiction, the tone/interpretation with which the plot beats are handled can change so much about the characterization. All the adaptations/fic start off with the same basic plot beats but so much can be changed and colored (for better or worse) by the way the author chooses to interpret them
#i do want to say that I always think more people in the fandom is fun!#and fanfic is supposed to be whatever self indulgent stuff scratches your id and can’t be held to the same standards as published stuff#I will never tell people what to write!#also I’ve got cringe fanfic on ao3 too (let he who is without cringe cast the first stone etc etc)#so I’d be the WORST person to preach about that XD#(the next part in the tags is a joke don’t come at me)#but— as a lighthearted joke— sometimes to me personally the Les mis fandom feels like#imagine if you’re in the fandom for the new she ra show#and the show’s about the Evil Horde and how it destroys the lives of the two main characters in different ways#but then like? half the fandom insisted on referring to it as the Morally Okay Reformable Horde#and then like. all the catra/adora fanfic ended with Catra realizing she needs to be a Nicer horde soldier#and maybe adora rejoins the horde to and they go off to fight for Justice (which is what the horde does)#and then you were like ‘huh that’s a bit odd’#‘I thought the point was that the horde poisoned both of their lives and ripped them away from their friends/family’#‘like I thought the evil horde was evil and stuff’#and people responded to you ‘why do you hate catra and catradora?’#and you were like ‘no I love catra! but I thought the whole point was that yknow. she kinda had to leave the evil horde and all’#‘like her upbringing in the horde had left her with a violent self-destructive authoritarian worldview and all’#‘and her obsession with being a good horde soldier was not indeed a good admirable thing but sorta pathetic and sad’#‘and adora was right to leave and hate the horde for what it did to her’#‘and her flaw was that (like catra) she still internalized a lot of the way it taught her to view herself’#‘and the whole fun of catradora is the idea of the two of them sorta finally figuring out who they are outside of that abusive system’#anyway in this metaphor catra is javert adora is Valjean the horde is the police catradora Is valvert XD#this is a goofy metaphor made after hours of homework and is not to be taken too seriously
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edoro · 7 months
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got out of bed and the first - the FIRST - thing i saw when i walked into the living room was my darling little sweet baby cat boy, my son who i hatched from an egg, the creature who i have nurtured from kittenhood
sitting unrepentant amidst the ruins of my puzzle, staring me down, the poster for a different puzzle framing his devilish little pointy-eared head like he's the Saint Of Fucking My Shit Up
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worstloki · 10 months
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Dude I don't like thorki either but like. Why did anybody like the majority of Loki ships? Loki/Mobius, Loki/Grandmaster, Loki/Abusive Power Figure and/or Creep whatever have you is not exciting or even understandable to me
it's not that 'toxic' ships shouldn't be explored - they can be plenty fun and interesting - but people will favour a ship and then genuinely think their version rewrites canon, as if for example Mobius actually was extremely kind and considerate and would never hurt Loki (when he blatantly did in canon), or the Grandmaster was giving his precious sugar baby Loki everything he asked for (did not see this in canon)?
Also defending ships by going 'they were never toxic/abusive' is a weird way to divide things. Just say you don't like incest or pseudoincest or those characters together and move on???
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