#dsmp crit

[mourninglamby]

i would pay insane money to hear about your thoughts on ctommy girlism because it’s actually such an important part of his character analysis to me

I’ve been wanting to make a patreon for stuff like this + art I don’t wanna post, so I’ve decided to go this route with the essay I will likely end up with based on this thesis. But I’ll use this post to summarize some thoughts im VERY confident about (and could be a sneak peek into what else the paper will entail)

C!tommy is fem-coded based off of fandom interpretation and reception, textual evidence, and meta analysis (will get more into meta in the big doc).

To start, a lot of this coding has to do with how he is victimized and why, which mainly concerns him craving approval from these older men (c!wilbur, c!dream, and even c!techno,) that he views as role models. Power imbalances are something that can also affect boys, yes, but this is where the coding comes in to set them apart. PLEASE REMEMBER Coding is used to identify traits that align with minority experiences, both good and bad. That does not mean c!tommy is LITERALLY a girl. It is a tool utilized in rhetorical analysis.

In this case, the constant subjugation of c!tommy by the men he yearns to trust, and subsequent self blame and denial when they hurt him fit into an experience closely associated with misogyny, and to go even further into the meta, a misogynistic view of feminine victimhood. The way c!tommy’s trauma interrupts his psychological and emotional development is received by thousands of fans who still deny his abuse even happened as “annoying”, “mean”, and “just as bad” as his perpetrator(s). This is observed from the existence of c!dream apologists and sympathizers, and to a more complicated extent, c!wilbur apologists. But I digress.

C!tommy is coded as feminine because in the majority of media centering victims of this kind of abuse, the character is a woman, and a woman can and will always be blamed for what happened to her. In the case of DSMP, this blame comes from the man who is protected by the spoils of his privilege as an oppressor, status in his community, and the many other people (predominantly young women) he has managed to manipulate to be in opposition to his victim. Fiction affecting real life and all…. Which is why I think this evidence of coding is so important.

To add another disclaimer for the bad faith warriors, being a victim does NOT make a character femme coded, however, the way he is treated in canon and the way the fanbase reacts to how he grapples with the lasting trauma is certainly rooted in misogynistic talking points.

Looking forward to writing more ^__^ thank u for being so interested anony. I’ve welcomed some friends who I trust very much to help me write it and I’m very excited.

addendum: there is no right or wrong way to interpret ctommy or dsmp or the response to how he was depicted... i only wish to start a conversation and get my thoughts out. if u disagree that is ur prerogative and i respect it <3

#dsmp #dsmp crit #c!tommy #setting to nobody can reblog for now #because I’m sure I’ll edit it later #this is also going to be used to support my claim that dsmp is post gender

[pixiecaps]

can you imagine writing lore so bad this is a review of it

#dsmp crit

[flamedoesart]

I am very funny.

#meme #dsmp crit #c!dream crit

[itssideria]

i've seen a few posts these past few days about how, regarding the finale, c!tommy's last words weren't an apology to c!dream—more of a "oh shit i've just realised my plan will blow us all up and i want to apologise for that fuck fuck FUCK"

and yknow what? they're right!! they are so very right!! when i was initially ranting-post finale, i honestly forgot that there were people either not watching the stream live/not watching at all, and in hindsight i can see how word got out that "oh ctommy apologised to his abuser". because, let's make one thing clear—he did not. ctommy comes to understand cdream, but also clearly and unequivocally says "you're still evil." the one saving grace that ending had was that at the end of it, ctommy does not apologise for being abused.

however. that was never even my problem in the first place.

the issue with the finale wasn't the apology (at the very least, its not the worst issue.) the issue with the finale was the framing. because, let's face it, ctommy realising he has doomed everyone and his last words being an apology for that? makes sense!! that is literally how ctommy acts!! i get that! i'm OKAY with that! hell, ctommy finding it in his heart to understand cdream and feel pity for him ALSO makes sense. it's ctommy. he's that server's goddamn sunshine! he is the hope when there is no hope left and the resolve at the height of war and a heart stubbornly pumping against a bloody sleeve like. thats our ctommy!! that is HIM!!

you wanna know what doesn't make sense, though? framing those actions as if they are good in this scenario. framing them as if they are helping ctommy.

the issue isn't that tommy tries to understand dream. the issue is that it fucking works. the issue is that dream softens, and acts all sad and uwu-baby-boy, and becomes so fucking soft in the span of two seconds that the entire twitch chat felt sorry for him. i SAW that happen! i saw viewers siding with dream, feeling sorry for him, saying he WAS absolved after all!! the issue is that every time ctommy has tried to fight for himself in the past it's failed him—but the scenario where he sympathises with his abuser?? that's the one you want to tell me helps? after everything, every excellent writing decision, after MONTHS of making dream a sadistic piece of shit and tommy a traumatised kid healing more and more by the day, THAT'S what you want to tell me works? talking things out normally? in the last stream dream had cclingy strung up in a fucking saw trap! HOW is this what works??

add in everything else on top of that—ctommys weak arguments against dream and punz, the character assassination of cdream as a villain, the way dream just immediately softens, the fact that, apology to dream or not, tommys last ever words are sorry directed toward his abuser—yeah. yeah, the issue is far deeper than the wrong word. the issue was in the framing of that scene as a whole.

#mari talks #dsmp crit #i dont know how angry this post sounds so feel free to say if its aggressive. im more just resigned than angry lmao #anyways yeah woohoo babey #dream smp

[zeta-in-de-walls]

Hey guys, I’m afraid I’m going to continue critiquing the DSMP finale. 

So, with the first two streams I don’t think there were any major issues. I dislike the Dream and Punz friendship personally as staged disc finale was my least favourite plot twist so seeing that actually cropping up in canon isn’t fun. Another arc where Tommy and Tubbo decide to go and kill Dream is a little dull too but theyre good at making it feel fresh enough. 

It’s with the third stream that issues really start making themselves known. Dream and Punz’s plan is not all that good or interesting, certainly not when none of these are going to be explored at all given that it’s the penultimate stream. Like, what does people’s limbos being determined on how they die mean? What did it matter? It doesn’t even fit with past canon! And why did the revive book allow Dream to mind control Ranboo? What even...? 

More importantly though, Tommy is forced to give up all his possessions in his enderchest. Then he has to sacrifice his discs. I am incensed by this plot point. It’s once again reminding us that Tommy’s made to lose everything again and again thanks to Dream and these sacrifices are portrayed as a positive thing? Loving things isn’t a problem and he shouldn’t have to learn again and again to give up all he has without being seen as selfish. Its not fun seeing this character beaten down again and again. I was hoping that the finale would subvert this idea once more and remind us that it was cruel and wrong and that Tommy deserves to be happy and live. 

Going into the final stream, I again hated that Tommy’s plan involved killing himself. Tommy’s character has low self-worth and has had suicidal thoughts so this is not a good plot! He should learn he has worth, not the opposite. He shouldn’t need to die for his friends and he certainly shouldn’t apologise for existing. His story was all about how it’s okay to be yourself. It was always thrilling to see him standing up and moving forward unafraid to stand for what he believes him no matter how much he was crushed. 

Sadly the finale exceeded my expectations for how bad it could be. 

All those ideas I mentioned? Discarded. Tommy plans to die... and does die. Tubbo dies as well, so the sacrifice meant nothing in the end. Everything was lost. All the memories and stuff that made the Dream SMP the special place that it was, gone in an instant. None of it mattered in the end. No one stepped in this time to save anyone. 

And yet, that’s not the worst thing. Because this stream doesn’t really focus on Tommy. It’s Dream’s story. Tommy in the prison realises that Dream is just a person in the end, who had reasons for what he was doing. His reasons were his friends except Tommy joining the server got in the way of that. According to Dream’s narrative, Tommy provoked him into becoming what he was and Dream has always secretly longed for those simpler times. 

Tommy finds understanding when he sees a memory of Dream before Tommy had joined being happy. And this causes Dream to have doubt and he makes it clear that he wants those times back, that he might give up on all his evil plans just like that. Tommy apologises to Dream for hurting him that first day and that’s apparently a sign of Tommy’s growth in finally learning to see the other perspective.

This plot is rancid. Dream makes no attempt to understand Tommy, not even a little. Despite Tommy repeatedly pointing out how much it all hurt and how much he’d suffered, Dream doesn’t show the slightest sympathy. Yet the narrative paints Tommy trying to understand him as this special thing? Like it was the solution all along. Dream can abuse people and cause immense suffering but its up to his victims to try and understand him? Why is the story telling us Tommy, an incredibly thoughtful character anyway, needed to learn understanding? Why is it hinting that Tommy and Dream were not so different and their stories mirrored each other, both secretly desiring the same things? 

Dreams motives are so flimsy and it makes so little sense that he’d question his plan now. Yet he asks whether its too late and you can see Tommy’s regret for the nuke plan. His whole sacrifice thing, is everyone’s doom. How cruel. Dream can ruin everyone’s happiness but the question we should be asking is ‘what about Dream’s happiness?’ apparently. 

And finally, we end u with the characters on a new world with amnesia. Though they’ve forgotten everything, we still see Tommy and Dream becoming friends and this is some sort of triumph, implying with what came before that yes Dream and Tommy could’ve been friends had Tommy not ruined Dream’s world by causing trouble on that first day. 

Annoyingly, so many of these points don’t even make much sense. Tommy has tried to understand Dream before. He visited in the prison for instance. Tommy wanting to kill Dream is framed as a bad thing, like it was wrong to have this fixation but this fails to recall how dangerous Dream is to Tommy and how he’s promised to kill him repeatedly in the past. Tommy had been living alone drinking invisibility potions in fear! 

Each element taken on their own is a problem, but the whole is so much worse than the sum of its parts. The bigger picture is that Tommy dies learning that his abuser was a person with feelings too that he screwed up and he ought to have been more understanding but his plan got himself and everyone he cared about killed. He is the monster that killed the server and everyone he loved.

#dsmp crit #meta #analysis #tommyinnit

[transbeeduo]

Every time I think about the “canon” C!Ranboo ending for too long, I get SO sad actually.

I know I should be happy that him and Michael survived and are together and stuff right? But for Ranboo, is it really “living”? Is it living to be isolated in an environment that you aren’t built for, that you aren’t accustomed to? To know that almost everyone you know and love is either dead, doesn’t remember you, or exists somewhere where you’ll never see them again? To live, knowing that those people could’ve been saved, just as they had, but the only reason he’s alive is because a god decided that they should live, forcing him into a life that he really didn’t have a choice in. And what about Michael, who will grow up never really knowing his other father? Ranboo and The Nether will be all he ever knows, there’s no way he’ll remember Tubbo or Snowchester.

I know CC!Ranboo was kind of backed into a corner with making a good ending, but I just wish it was a bit happier? I wish C!Ranboo could’ve had a happier ending, instead of being forced into a life that really seems miserable for him, if you really think about it.

#dsmp crit #<- kinda #I do. not like the C!Ranboo finale very much if it’s not obvious. #it makes me sad I wanted them to have a happy ending so bad #and I guess we kinda??? got that??? but not really #c!ranboo #Ranboo #Michael DSMP #michael underscore beloved #michael beloved #DSMP lore #dsmp #dreamsmp #Dream smp #DSMPblr #mcyt #mcytblr #crunch’s bites

[mossmelancholic]

i feel my main issue with the finale is that it’s a bad ending that exists for the wrong reasons.

one of the aspects of c!tommy’s lore that appealed to me was how fundamentally bleak his existence always turns out to be. he’s inherently a tragic character: the consequences for his actions are always overblown in comparison to both the intent and the impact of them. because of his loud personality and even louder voice, he’s the centre of attention in any room he walks into, which makes him a quick and easy scapegoat if you’re looking for someone to blame. he’s stubborn and he’s surviving, but he’s never at peace with his circumstances because something is always missing - his discs, his friends, his family.

i know that suffering for the sake of suffering is not a story beat that many are fond of. i know that many watchers just wanted tommy to heal because he deserved something hopeful. but to see a character whose circumstances are always stagnating, stuck in this tiring cycle where they always find themselves ending up right back where they started… that really appealed to me on a personal level, and so keeping that in mind, i always thought there was a chance his ending was not going to be a happy one.

but to me, this does not feel like his ending. it’s not an ending that exists for c!tommy. it’s not the natural conclusion to his story. this was an ending made to excuse c!dream’s entire villain arc instead. c!tommy’s characterisation as a victim did not matter here, because characterising c!dream as a victim instead was the intended goal. the abuse c!dream inflicted on c!tommy is less important than desperately clutching at straws to make a character, that we as an audience have no reason to view as sympathetic, ‘worthy’ of our sympathy. the narrative is desperate to give room for c!dream to have a second chance, something that comes at the cost of enabling victim blaming against a canonical child abuse survivor.

when c!tommy, in the haze of memory loss, befriends his abuser, i don’t think it was intended to be tragic. it could and should have been, because c!tommy having no recollection of anything is a good set-up that would leave him vulnerable, open to c!dream’s manipulation once again because he doesn’t know who to avoid and who not to trust. but it isn’t trying to be unsettling when we see c!tommy unknowingly befriending his abuser; it’s meant to be a sign of hope that now everything has been reset, maybe there could be peace again. it doesn’t work, because the viewers remember everything even if the characters don’t. instead the amnesia plot line feels like a flimsy method of making a blank slate and a fresh new start where c!dream can avoid the consequences of his actions completely. this is a unintentional bad ending for c!tommy, because he’s placed in a position where he will grow to trust someone who has the full capacity to hurt him, but it’s an intentional good ending for c!dream and it seems that’s where the cc’s priorities lie.

#dsmp neg #dsmp crit #<- i think these are the tags for blacklists? #it’s been so long since i’ve used tumblr :sob: #back in my day it was anti character not character critical #/ #anyways i feel it’s important to note that I Do No Go Here anymore #the last serious lore stream i caught was c!wilbur having a maladaptive daydream about violently murdering dream #i’m only picking up second hand information #but i’m trying my best to articulate my grievances with what little knowledge i have #edit: i feel like i should also clarify that this is probably the only post i’ll ever make about this damn thing #i’m trying to put my dreamsmp phase behind me #my love for c!tommy is eternal though <3 he’s my little scrunkly guy fr

[safetyrat]

why watch the dsmp explode if you could watch little rats explode a boiler instead ahaha am i right chat

#dsmp spoilers #dsmp crit #i guess??? i dont have an opinion since i literally did not watch it

[awilddaydreamer]

“The creators will just bring up concerns over the griefing to the dteam themselves”

Hey remember when Eret did Exactly That over the Michael_B situation and the dteam proceeded to read his private Discord message out loud while laughing at and mocking him for it?

#I'll never stop being salty about that #that was just such a hurtful thing to do #It's really a slap in the face to the fanbase and CCs that enjoy the story #dsmp crit #dteam critical #discourse

[intrusivepng]

This is the way tommy gets out of dsmp volume two-

#live-blogging #dsmp crit #SORRY

[areus-in-a-little-cave]

I used to be a fan of cdream. i got into the fandom on account of reading some fanfic of him so I was interested in his story. I like villains but I don’t claim they have done nothing wrong and obviously he did bad things. So I was very disappointed on making his character a woobified ending? maybe I would have read a fanfic about it but it being his ending made me quite disappointed. blarg

No, yeah. It was such a bad ending. Even though Tommy never apologized to Dream, the idea that abusers will become better people because you understand them and show them kindness is... gross, at best, and dangerous at worst.

If you want to tell a compelling narrative of an abuse victim learning to understand their abuser, that could work! It could even work for c!Tommy since he is a very understanding character at his core. Working with the idea that an abuser is no more than just a person, you can do a lot with that and tell a great story.

Hell, I've done a lot with that! Not to bring up my own fanfics, but in the Broken Rhythms, Tommy struggles with the idea that Techno sees Dream as a monster because he sees him as a person because he knew Dream for ten years and Dream was his closest relationship.

Anyway, when it comes to why it doesn't work in canon, it's because. well. okay, Tommy understands why Dream did what he did. Because he wanted the simple, peaceful life he once had. What does that actually change?

Dream still abused Tommy. Dream still beat him to death and tortured him for months. Dream was still actively hunting him down, trying to kill him and his friends, and tormenting him psychologically.

You cannot have a character come to understand their abuser while the abuser is actively in the process of hurting them. What would have changed in their relationship? Dream, still trying to hurt Tommy, would have just gained a less resistant victim!

Seriously. Dream is now understood by Tommy. Tommy is now nice to him. Great! Dream is still his fucking abuser, by the way, and Tommy is easier to deal with because he understands why Dream does this so he fights back less. That is a horrible narrative and the only direction their relationship would have gone if they hadn't been blown up!

Remember when else Tommy was nice to Dream? Exile! Dream sure wasn't a good person then, was he?

Okay, but sure, fine. Play along. Dream is now nicer because Tommy understands him and is nice to him.

That implies that Tommy, to some degree as Dream's ongoing abuse victim, was in the wrong for fighting back.

That implies that Tommy should have some blame for how Dream treats him, like Dream's actions against Tommy are valid in some manner and don't majorily overstep the line of how to respond to things like Tommy acting out against the server authority.

That implies that the ends (having peace on the server and Dream being happy with his friends) justify the means (driving a 16 year old to suicide, murdering him, trying to kill his friends, torturing him mentally, and many other things).

That implies that by Tommy fighting back against his abuse and trying to live his life in peace without Dream, he was actively making Dream's life worse.

That implies that Tommy is at fault for Dream's abuse against him.

Seriously, it's such a bad choice. I don't know how they got it so wrong.

#areus rambles #// dream #ask to tag #okay to reblog btw #tw abuse #tw victim blaming #tw suicide mention #dsmp neg #dsmp crit

[mourninglamby]

its like every week i have a moment where im reminded that ccrime/cwilburs story ended like that. that was it. wilbur didnt actually care about any of the. yeah. like sorry fuck me for wanting something with depth. sorry i dont think depicting a character suibaiting for months then being very viscerally begged not to by the person theyve hurt but also love the most only to puss out and turn all that buildup into a joke is very “soooo og dsmp XD”. in fact pues its quite upsetting. it is actually so jarring to me if im honest! 

#dsmp crit #sorry ill start tagging. ijust need to get it out again #im so sad

[raineyraven]

i love how in the lead up to both the disc finale and this latest finale, so many people were doomposting about how bad they predicted the finale would be, and then both finales knocked out our expectations by a mile. the difference is that the disc finale was one of the best moments on the entire server and a very cathartic ending and this finale is...... decidedly not that. the direct opposite of that, actually. the disc finale's evil twin, if you will.

#its a lil funny ngl #dsmp crit #dsmp

[pusangkambing]

c!Ranboo's involvement made no sense????? Why was he there??? Like what was the point of that???? I genuinely dont understand

#dsmp crit #dsmp critical #quackity #ranboo #i genuinely dont understand y he of all people was there and not c!fundy or c!schlatt #who had more connection and involvement with quackity and las nevadas

[itssideria]

srry for doing this in your inbox but ykk the phrase “character assassination” rlly kinda sums up my issue with cdream in the final stream bc on reflection ctommy was really not the problem there. i think a Lot of things couldve been fixed if, when ctommy tried empathizing, cdream went really quiet (leaving ctommy to argue w cpunz) and then lashed out when ctommy hit the nail on the head…. yk? like hes always done up until now because he doesnt like it when people that are Against Him understand him. and it coming from ctommy in particular would make him feel unsafe. but by getting mad abt it, it would reinforce to the audience that ctommys analysis is right And would highlight a similarity in both of their personalities (irrational aggression as a coping mechanism to deal with unwanted emotions). like i dunno i think it would make the stuff they were going for more poignant if they made cdream act like ctommy at his worst while ctommy is, at least emotionally, at his most clear. it would be a really nice mirror without muddying the original intent, which was to highlight cdreams humanity after the aggressive deification they did directly beforehand . iiiiii dunnnooo (hi mari)

HELIII HI BACK!!!!

and. yeah, man. there is so much that could have saved that ending scene for me and even this right here is one of those things. like, i love cdream as a character! for the longest time i thought he was really, really cool and i got excited to see him on screen!! and a massive part of that excitement was that he was unequivocally A Guy That Went Too Far. that is cdreams character summary—a man that maybe could have been good, but let his obsession with the fixing the past and taking control take him farther than he could ever hope to he redeemed. and i loved the little moments that made him human in the story!! the parts when he was afraid, or emotional, or had his plans foiled—those were GOOD. they made him REAL. i did not like cdream bc i wanted him to win all the time.

character assassination is the phrase i chose and character assassination is right. cdream is obsessed with control. he Cannot, under any circumstances, be wrong. his need for control makes him scary and sadistic and ready to do THE most fucked up bullshit (refer to the LITERAL SAW TRAP FROM FINALE STREAM #3) anyone on the server has done. this guarded, angry, fucked-up-beyond-recognition man will not bend because some kid almost got him right. and if he did bend, he certainly would not go soft. the irrational aggression you mentioned is so much better snd makes SO much more sense because like—I CAN SEE THAT! i can SEE cdream lashing out doubling down, i can see him throwing every angry phrase against the wall to see what sticks, i can see him desperate to hurt ctommy one last time. and it functions beyond that, too, because it doesn't leave punz (who tbh having him do staged disc finale was a bad decision but eh) useless, it doesn't make cdreams final moments sympathetic, it doesn't make us feel sorry for a literal abuser. or at least, not sorry in an "oh youre so sad and baby :(" way but more of a "man. this obsessive fucker lost everything, huh" sorta way.

its so sad because SO many little changes could have had us keep the exact same plot and redeem that ending but. Man. ty for talking heli <3

#mari talks #asks #heliianth #dsmp crit #i think im one of the lore crit connoisseurs on dsmpblr now. strange #ty for the ask king you are so very right

[zeta-in-de-walls]

I’m speechless. I’ve worried for some time at the idea that CDream might be a bit of a villain sue. 

When I say villain sue, I mean a character the creator loves a bit too much, and thinks they’re really cool. Too cool to lose. They may be evil but the appeal is seeing an OP evil character win and outsmart the foolish heroes with ingenious plans and because its fun to watch the world burn. 

Stuff like this is fine up to a point. But after a while it starts to work against the story when the other characters are constantly beaten down, the series begins to feel unsatisfying as you keep seeing them triumph when they should realistically fail after a while. It’s annoying. Especially when you see them with plans that don’t really make sense and performing actions that are needlessly cruel and yet the story lets them get away with it? 

#meta #analysis #dsmp crit