#i could only try to get close to ppl to show them the real me... -_-
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famous au but um dumb
@cowboylexapro
if the poets were on social media and famous this is what they'd be known for
(age somewhere between 19-21)
todd
tumblr blog name: toad.anderson
ao3 name: toad.writes
he's technically anon but not rlly
sexiest tumblr account known to man - he's a fanfic writer and an au poster with some occasional og stuff that floods his inbox with asks begging him to publish his og work too - what fandom does he write for? all of them.
his bf proof reads them all even if he's never been in the fandom
he writes fics for his friends when they get famous
in between his novel worthy fanfics are shitty fics of his friends
his followers get rlly confused
he wrote a neil x reader fic until straight girls started claiming it and he took it down becuz the reader was him
todd on his blog: guyss… im so sorry but im taking the neil x reader fic down… im sorry if i offend anyone but the reader was me ❤️ not you - i don't like you all claiming it
after taking down the x reader, he does a neil x oc but the oc is him but with green eyes
neil, after the oc gets described: todd the only person im seeing is u tho 😦 and u have blue eyes
eventually his relationship with famous tiktoker neil perry gets revealed and ppl realize he's not just an obsessed fan
after neil says the thing blog: toad.anderson: guys my real name is todd anderson everyone: omg we wouldve never guessed
after neil and him go public and ppl dont believe that neil is gay he alternates between seething and writing neil fics and taking joy from neil's confusion
todd points out comments that are obviously thirsting over neil and neil still doesn't realize he's being thirsted over
"neil be the father of my children!" "oh i think they meant that in a godfather type way"
todd, at a breaking point, suggests that neil and him post a kissing video but neil doesnt wanna be one of those shawn camilla couples - respect
what if he posted them kissing but he made a historians will call them bestfriends joke but then ppl did🧍♂️
"my bestie and I 🤩 " "NEIL PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THINK UR SERIOUS"
//
neil
tiktok name: neilliard.at.julliard
accidentally tiktok famous for pretty face, charming personality, acting abilities - the theater kids had a claim over him orignially but he's pretty mainstream now
comment section full of old grandmas trying to set him up with their granddaughters
everyones dream bf until he posted about his own bf
neil: my boyfie has a big tumblr and he writes a lot and he really likes frogs and he is also blond and heres his address
hes kinda oblivious about everything
"you want a close up of my collar bones? why ?"
reading comment "'show your abs?' its nice you think i have abs! only my boyfriend can see those tho 😉 "
the comments go wild
people are stitching it screaming for different reasons
all his fans r screaming into pillows bc HES TAKEN NOOO
people are trying to figure out who this mans boyfie is
"he has a boyfriend??" "he's been straightbaiting us!" "NOO HE'S TAKEN" "IS UR BF AS HOT AS U" "look at the way his eyes lit up when he said bf i love love" "this video shows an aspect of society that-"
"tell us about ur bf" and he makes a week worth of videos but its all random stuff
"my bf looks pretty in blue" "my bf likes to put salt and pepper on his fries" "my bf has hair"
the straightbaiting comments come after him posting about pride and having a pride flag in the background of his videos <- they say things like "he's such a good ally"
people attack others in the comments who ask him if hes queer "NO NEIL ISNT GAY NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE GAY HE COULD JUST BE A REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY FRUITY STRAIGHT GUY WHO LIKES GIRLS"
"are you gay neil???" -> "not everything has to be gay ppl can just be allys and btw by assuming every ally is gay, ur actually hurting the movement!!!" -> "i asked becuz he said he wanted to kiss his boy best friend on the lips in highschool" -> "he meant it heterosexual-ly"
someone asks him what his type is and he describes todd to the t and they think he likes a short haired blonde
"he likes girls in sweat pants not skirts" "his type isnt ppl in skirts" -- neil would love todd in a skirt but thats not the point
his type: "he's really shy, gorgeous, short dirty blonde hair, uhhhh, really smart, and So much more :))"
he could say my boyfriend is a man who i am dating because i am gay and they would still try to straight-ify him
a grainy video gets leaked of a short haired blond guy jumping into his arms and ppl say things like "its just a girl with short hair"
todd hate writes a neil x male reader fic
he asks his friends for help and they post todd's face everywhere on his recording set
he makes a video like "meet my toddy"
in the video todd says he's a boy and he's todd and he's neil boyfriend 3485757 times and neil is like "omg babe i love u too <33" becuz he doesnt Understand
some ppl r still in denial or think he's bi w/ a preference for girls
straight girls like him becuz he has a pretty face and a general respect for women
during prom season, he gets dmed a lot of websites for buying prom tickets
"don't worry guys! i know i said my high school time was rough, but i actually did go to prom with my bf!!"
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charlie
twitter name: therealalpha
most popular podcast name: daltons intercourse
joke/bait account ppl took seriously
The Alpha that other alpha posters bow to
says stuff like "SIGMA MALES KISS ALPHAS ON THE MOUTH TO ASSURT DOMINANCE"
the twitter alphas buy into him so bad he's making podcasts and doign interviews and he has no clue how tf he got here but he's riding the high
he advocates for being alpha via kissing ur homies
when he gets famous he begs todd to write a fic about him
todd agrees pretty easily tbh
"ARE YOU EVEN AN ALPHA MALE IF PPL AREN'T WRITING GAY FICS ABOUT YOU"
charlie posts things like "no homo" "only the real make out with their homies" over those black and white pics of muscle-y dudes w/ no context after the neil video he posts "he homo" over one of them w/ no context
at first ppl try to attack him but then theyre like wtf is going on here and realize he's trolling the alpha community
when no one realizes neil is actually gay he makes a podcast episode talking about how he thinks neil is gay gay homosexual gay - he's holding a cigar and wearing a tight hawaiian unbuttoned shirt like "lets talk about this gay gay theater gay boykisser man"
made by @cowboylexapro
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pitts
youtube name: gerdoesstuff
joint youtube name: idkman
homework help and crafts videos youtuber - relaxed vibes only here to be calm
he gives study and concentration tips and encourages ppl to seek help and companionship and not suffer alone
he paints mugs and looks for bugs
he was on charlie's podcast and they discussed the alpha-ness of making pottery
todd wrote a pitts x reader fic becuz ppl begged him to
pitts printed it out and framed it and put it in his filming set up
he's a regular on meeks podcast too btw and meeks is a regular on his
but when meeks is around things explode so
he has a second channel with meeks where they do silly experiments
theyre posting schedule is non-existent and they also do streams but they never tell you so their viewers just have to hope and find out
knox and him are planning on making a movie review channel but its still not fully thought out so
he makes couple mugs for todd and neil when neil asks for help
he wakes up at 2 am and sends todd prompts
anytime he learns a fun fact he sends it to todd on the off chance todd may need it for a story at some point in his life
anytime he reads anything he's like damn neil will love to act like this character and lets him know about it
he sends charlie alpha podcasters to make fun of
at some point he exposes cam's shitty handwriting for the giggles
knox
instagram name: knoxious.ur.mom.ious
he posted a short on his instagram talking about how he just learned hair grows from the head and not the bottom and blew up for being a dummy - he doesn't know whats going on but he's having a blast
he stirs up drama but on accident
he was on pitts youtube before
out of everyone here he's the only one not making content he's just vibing
eventually he ends up posting background footage of everyone doing dumb shit
when it comes out theyre friends ppl stalk his instagram to find more proof
after that he starts to stir drama but more consciously
hmm what else - idk he's just chilling, getting called out for being dumb and watching his friends do dumb stuff
oh wait when he makes that short about the hair a bunch of commentary channels post about it and he takes it like a badge of honor
cameron
instagram name: cam.studies
pinterest name: cam.studies
one of those aesthetic studying accounts on insta and pinterest - takes nice shots of his homework and his pen collections and his study desk
except its only for the pics his handwriting is atrocious - he has like one page or paragraph of pretty handwriting to post and the rest is scribbled chaos - his pens are never organized by color, theyre just thrown in a box, and his desk is filled with papers and books and never looks clean but its fine he's just here for clout
he ends up sponsoring and reviewing businesses that make those cute study supplies so now he has a hoard - or at least he did until his friends started taking them
he groaned about the cam.studies x {random ass ppl} fics todd wrote but he thinks theyre funny and has them bookmarked
he went on charlie's podcast and the two argued for half of it and then explained how as two alphas they would settle their differences by kissing
his friends help him angle his aesthetic shots at cafes and shit
he got exposed eventually as a fake becuz ppl (cough) posted his real notes which were messy and disorganized
but he played it off as a commentary about how the internet is fake and got more sponsorships
he judges todd and neil but is eating popcorn at the front seat of the drama
meeks
podcast name: chameleon hotel
youtube channel name: idkman
meeks makes a podcast for very stupid intricate crimes. he has a cult following of bisexuals
its stuff like drama over a tree being taken down
"the locals even called their beloved tree 'ole alvin'"
charlie: todd write a meeks x ole alvin fic
he has standards, so he does
he went on charlie's podcast and convinced ppl that being with other men allowed u to suck in their alpha-ness and become the ultimate alpha
but generally he just makes his little silly videos and makes cryptic posts about the neil todd drama
has a joint channel w/ pitts
is up to date with the neil thing and is the one to send neil updates
he tries to convince neil to act out his podcasts (with a lot of success lmao)
he tries to convince todd to write fics based on his podcasts (also with a lot of success)
as payback for the ole alvin x meeks fic he convinces todd (very easily) to write a bunch of dumb charlie fics and todd agrees becuz he has standards
no one actually knows that the poets know each other
they eventually post a group photo
"we need to cancel neil perry for being friends with an alpha podcast guy" "nah thats just charlie"
"yall know hes bi, right?"
"he literally has a podcast about how sucking dick as a man makes u the ultimate alpha male"
it does explain why charlie's alpha podcast go from tiktok actor, tumblr fanfic writer, instagram study blog, fellow podcaster, hw help tiktoker in between his satire of normal alpha tiktokers
half of these things are like copy and pasted from our conversation btw so dont blame me for them
#todd anderson#neil perry#anderperry#dead poets society#deadpoets#dead poets headcanons#neil and todd#todd and neil#dps fandom#dps#charlie dalton#dps fanfiction#dps fic#dps headcanons#dps memes#dps incorrect quotes#meeks#steven meeks#stephen meeks#dead poets#gerard pitts#meeks and pitts#pitts dps#cameron richard#richard cameron#knox overstreet#anderperry social media
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hm.. kaeya, albedo, and childe for mirror sex, begging, and exhibitionism? tried to avoid the ones I've already seen asked with Albedo, since a couple of my first ideas were (if one of these is accidentally repetitive... your choice I guess??)
warnings nsfw
don't worry about making it repetitive, as long as there are other characters, the whole point of this game is mix and matching :)
actually i think each of them can be fun with each prompt, so instead of usual process of elimination, i'm just gonna go in order of hotness, and since i'm biased, it starts with the prettiest and the only character in genshin impact. fucking kaeya in front of a mirror would be insanely delicious. this is the shit devils are tempting saints with. tying him up wearing nothing but his choker, gorgeous and lithe in half-shadows and slanted moonlight, highlights in his hair turning silver where the light touches them. meeting his eyes in the mirror while fucking him and he smiles, a slow lop-sided smirk, filthy and pleased. making him fuck himself on your cock\strap, and he's shameless, in fact, he's posing, arching to look more seductive, but sometimes, when it suddenly gets too real, teeth scraping on the side of his exposed neck, cock hitting just the right spot, fingers digging into his thighs, when his composure wavers, he meets his own eyes in the mirror both to check that he let nothing show and to make sure he's being the same perfect fantasy. imma stop here bc i plan to sometime write an actual piece on kaeya's relationship with sex as the performance and watching himself in the mirror both to evaluate his own performance and make sure partner enjoys it, the struggle with being watched, but not seen.
albedo is breathless, overwhelmed, so used to feel in control that he doesn't know how to handle so much desire, so he reaches to you, almost as for help, despite you being the one who inflicted this on him. "please" as if "i don't know what do with myself, but i trust you to know", bright blue eyes wide open. "please what?", stroking the tender inner sides of his open thighs, and he swallows, but doesn't look away, doesn't blush, bites his lip with a concentrated little frown "Please fuck me. What do you want me to say that you don't already know? You know I want this badly enough to say anything, you've brought me to this on purpose. What would exact words matter?"
childe is so into exhibitionism, like have you met this whore. what the fuck is that half-open jacket on the naked torso. his shirt is like literally closed on only one button up top. that's ridiculous. tartag, wear some fucking undershirt. and this is not the same as geo men's straightforward sluttiness with crop tops or just being shirtless, no, childe wants to have some intrigue, to pretend it's a tease. except he doesn't have patience or self-control to be a tease, so he's like one step above the flashers. oh i'm srs business fatui, i'm wearing a srs bsns suit, it just happened to be dangling on a single clasp and showing off my abs wink wink. shut up, you whore, no one is buying that shit. if i met him in public and he introduced himself as "toy salesman", i'd think he's gonna try to sell me some vibrators by demonstrating them on himself right there. hold still girlie, im taking a dick pic. ok this somehow derailed into tartag slutshaming, but to be fair, if you made him undress somewhere where there's a chance he could be seen and then just kept telling him what a pathetic whore he is, he'd come untouched in ten minutes flat, which would be too soon bc i didn't even get to the fact that he's 11th harbringer and after signora and scara are out, there are only like 9 ppl left in harbringers AT ALL, what kind of LOSER do u have to be, so he'll have to keep standing on his knees, covered in cum, like a cringeslut failwhore he is
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i’m so confused as to how everyone seemingly came to the collective consensus that the dream premiere was some huge pivotal moment/statement for taekook. i don’t rlly understand how them showing up to a movie premiere together is a huge deal? it’s not like they waltzed in holding hands or anything like that. it very well could have just been two close friends/bandmates going to a movie premiere together bc why not? if any two other members had gone to a movie premiere together it would be seen as completely platonic and normal so why is tkk going made out to be some crazy brave and “wow” moment for them? everyone knows they’re friends. is it just bc jk was shy? bc that’s pretty normal for him tbh especially given that it was his first public outing since being on hiatus for a long time and only doing weverse lives from his house/gym.
also everyone seems to have concluded that they were definitely intentionally wearing queer coded clothes when honestly their outfits were pretty normal. ppl just dug extensively into the background of every item they wore and found some far-off connection to queerness/tkk when rlly it’s so unlikely they planned each article of clothing out like that. bc for what? they’re not actually trying to come out so why would they plan queer coded outfits as some “secret sign” ? like ppl really think jungkook looked up the exact quotes of the print on his jacket and traced it back to being vaguely alluded to something queer? and then said to himself “yes this is what i’ll wear to show the world” ?? and ppl genuinely believe taehyung intentionally wore the brand juntae kim to symbolize the connection of their two names together…like rlly? it’s just a brand…we talk so much abt how shippers connecting clothes/accessories to prove a relationship is stupid yet we’re out here doing the same and making it one of our biggest moments?
don’t get me wrong i love the dream premiere, it was cute, but i rlly don’t get why it’s been made out to be THAT much of a big deal. like i get the kappa tshirts thing bc those r clearly the exact same shirt on the same day but in what way is going to a movie premiere together some “huge step” ?
Hi anon!
Personally, I don’t see Dream premiere as the ‘they’re making a statement’ some seem to think it is. I think it was important to them personally, because they got to do something just the two of them.. that would come closest to being couply as they publicly can. I think it’s something Tae especially wishes for and possibly this was a real moment for them because of that. Just.. being somewhere together knowing themselves that they are a couple.. I think it must’ve felt satisfying to a certain degree.
I don’t think it was their way of telling the public they are together. I don’t think they specifically chose those clothes to make a statement, rather I think it’s clothes they like from brands they like. I would like to say though that I think both Tae and Jk are aware of what’s behind the brands they choose. I don’t think it’s them making huge statements, but rather them having preferences which are based in them being queer. I also think Tae would be aware of the Oscar Wilde reference. To me that is much more pointed than the brand he’s wearing. They probably are aware of the way fandom scrutinizes everything they do and wear, and I believe the wearing of queer brands is a choice.
I don’t fully agree with your assessment of Jk being shy. Having seen him solo, I know that man is capable of moving past his shyness and introverted tendencies. I don’t think it’s something he unlearns during the times he isn’t in public much. BTS members have trained for these things, they have learned through experiences how to deal with being the focus of everyone. So for me his shyness during Dream does not stem from being in the public eye again after a while.
If I were to go all sappy (I’m gonna… fully aware that my interpretation of this doesn’t proof a thing 😂)… it’s just in the way they look at each other. The way Tae seems all proud and endeared by Jk. How they hold eye contact for a bit and then look away cutely. How Tae reassures Jk and Jk goes giggly. It’s soft to me in ways I maybe can’t explain correctly.
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some Thoughts on the halo tv show🧐
idk whether or not ppl are still avoiding s1 spoilers but either way this will be Long so, below the cut✌
(@helix-studios117 you'll enjoy this probably)
INITIAL REACTION. like 5/10.
- it is funny to me the amount of latin and classical shit in this show, as a classics student "new carthage" and the big slogan on the wall (i could only see "per mare, per (?), per (?)" and all that other shit is SO funny. and cool
- i saw a lot of bad things abt this so my opinion is a bit pre-jaded BUT i see know i think a lot of those bad reactions are well-founded. the writing is decent, tbh, not awful, but too fast. exposition is sloppy, which is expected bc they are trying to aim for both audiences who have been exposed to halo and audiences who have not. but STILL. better to over expose a bit than to leave me with questions (though i also recognize i have barely scratched the surface of halo myself)
- that said, QUESTIONABLE decisions made: no reason for pablo schreiber to be totally naked in that scene. sorry but no. for me it not only felt unnecessary but weird for them to want to get master chief naked - the camera doesn't sexualize him i don't think, but still it was strange. also why did that other doctor dude go in to kiss halsey's double? also in general some dialogue felt kinda forced and boring.
- cinematographically, it looks good. it's pretty normal but looks nice, and there were a few shots or scenes that seemed particularly well framed or shot. the mjolnir armor looks good imo! not AS production value porn as rings of power, which is fun. i especially enjoyed the aesthetic of the scene of john walking around his old house and the shot of him kneeling behind his younger self.
- i don't really mind maskless chief, but i think they're overdoing it with him keeping the helmet off 90% of the time. i think it was inevitable we'd see his face at some point but it's being done very lazily and in a way that destroys part of chief as a character. i think taking it off in ep1 was ridiculous (i also think chief defecting 25 mins into ep1 was ridiculous) and i believe a much more powerful moment to remove the helmet was ep4 after you get all the close up internal shots in the helmet as he's viewing cortana's remaking of his old home. would've been way more powerful to have perhaps snippets of john's face, too close or distant to make anything really connect, before a big reveal.
- i also dislike that the reasoning to keep his mask off so much is that pablo schreiber said you can't form an emotional connection to a masked character if you dont see their face. like it's okay to think that.....but you're just insanely wrong. do you know what show you're in???? do you know the character you have been hired to portray? have you ever seen star wars or played video games? have you ever read a book? when we watched the mandalorian we were all so insanely hyped about what mando looked like DESPITE THE FACT WE ALL KNOW WHAT PEDRO PASCAL LOOKS LIKE. LIKE PLEASE ((also i've written 500k words of fic based around an elder scrolls DLC character whose entire persona is wearing a mask, has no actual canon face, and whom you kill at the end of his DLC. sorry pablo you are just wrong))
- i've seen some ppl complain abt chief having a "real boy" plotline and how stupid that is, which i partially disagree with. i think it's REALLY interesting to suggest and explore the possibility of him and other spartans being able to lift themselves out of being killing machines and glimpse how estranged they are from their humanity, and what exactly has been done to them to estrange them, but i do think the show is laying it on WAY TOO MUCH, WAY TOO FAST. again w strange writing, lacking exposition, and poor pacing. we never really know or see chief to establish him as a Character before he goes rogue.
overall, interesting, but has SO much potential to be way better in a thousand different ways. i have no idea how this was marketed, if they said it would be a good adaptation, but ANY adaptation of a game or book nowadays seems to fall into the trap of "we made a thing! oh no one who likes the source material likes our thing and also we changed the plotlines irrevocably so now we have to say that we're using an "alternate timeline" or our own made up version. but somehow we still get funding" (((cough fucking cough the shitass wheel of time amazon show))) not godawful so i'll probs finish s1 and see how it ends, at the very least it's kinda interesting and i don't know enough about halo to hate it completely. however i know chief smashes a covenant leader which is just 😭 like COME ON PEOPLE. rly?
- that being said i don't HATE the idea of the pellet but there is also something to be said for the immense strength of a lifetime of augmentation, being spoonfed propaganda, institutional lies, and being manipulated both physically and mentally - all of that seems to carry a heavy weight compared to the pellet, which seems almost trivial and a lazy explanation as to "why Spartans are as they are". if they had tried to actually dive into the literal ways the UNSC alters and controls the minds of these people rather than here's a thing that's mostly responsible for keeping you in check, now dig it out with a knife, it could have been SO much more interesting.
- some positives: i like that they are getting the weirdness of halsey and john's relationship. it's meant to feel uncomfortable to us viewers i think, since they have a strange relationship based on manipulation and lies and secrets and etc etc. i also love silver team ofc
also pablo schreiber while i have never seen him in anything else is trying too hard for the chief voice and sounds bad. except at one point in ep1 he raised his voice and it actually sounded so much better lmfao🤪 in general he does an okay job as chief, but again, this chief is pretty un-chieflike. i'm open to other people's thoughts and opinions, good or bad! this is just my take so far on the first 4 eps and my very limited knowledge of halo :3
#halo#halo 2 anniversary#master chief#master chief face#pablo schreiber#halo season 1#paramount+#just rambling#aurelius and halo#fuck the wheel of time tv show
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helloooo!!!! i jus found your blog and i find it very adorable!! i see that you're writing for tbhk, may i please request sonething?!(!?
can i pretty please request hanako and kou with a hispanic reader who greets close friends/relatives with a peck on the cheek or a big bear hug?? (I SAW THAT YOURE HISPANIC AS WELL AND I GOT EXCITED HEHHEHE) like yk its how we greet ppl and i would love to see their reactions or how they would respond to that 😭😭😭
(if you don't mind, could the reader be female! and romantic?? TYSMMMMM HAVE A BEAUTIFUL [timezone]!!!!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤗)
Aye, Mi Amor
Pairings: Hanako x Reader, Kou x Reader (separate!)
Genre: Fluff… a lil angst. Solo un poco
Warnings: -
Hanako:
Being a ghost and not able to touch you himself, Hanako can’t help but feel a little jealous when you go up to your friends and relatives and greet them with a bear hug and a peck on the cheek. Even your friends parents got to receive them from you.
And he knows it’s a popular greeting in Hispanic culture and there’s no real meaning behind it… but he knows it can never be him.
“Hanako, why are you so sad today, Mi Amor?” You ask as you stand next to him against the railing of the old campus building. “What’s wrong? Tell me.”
The stubborn ghost only pouts and looks away. “Nothing. There’s nothing wrong…”
“Hanako, don’t lie to me. You know I can see right through you~” You joked, causing your lover to turn around in faux anger.
“That was low! And you just made me feel worse!” He pouted, floating into the corner. “Didn’t have to point it out that I’m not able to touch you and show you my love the way I want to and the way you show affection to others… kissing cheeks and hugging… should be me…” He groveled, still pouting.
Oh. So that’s what this was about.
“Hanako… I know it’s hard for you… it’s hard for me too… but we just… have to make the best of it until we can figure something else out…”
A mischievous smile rose on his face. “Say, Darling… have you ever wanted to breathe underwater~?” He asked, slowly turning to face you.
“Well I mean yeah, who hasn’t. I mean it’s a pain when you accidentally inhale water and you start choking and dying. Duh.” You replied as though his question was stupid.
“What if I told you I had a special little thing that could help you do that, and would allow us to touch—”
“I’m not swallowing a mermaid scale with you.”
Ouch.
“Why not?! I thought you loved me!” He yelled in exaggerated disbelief.
“Ay dios mio, Hanako…”
Kou:
He’s jumpy and insecure anyways… and this obviously non-romantic gesture is not helping. Whenever you go over to greet your friends or guests at a party, you kiss their cheeks with a warm smile and even warmer embrace. It’s not that he doesn’t understand it’s a cultural habit, but he can’t help but feel insecure about his relationship with you.
“Kou! Come say hi to Nene!” You grabbed him excitedly by the hand as you went to the front door to greet your classmate, letting go of Kou’s hand to wrap Yashiro in a tight hug before kissing her cheeks. “¡Estoy tan feliz de que estés aquí, Nene! I didn’t think you’d make it! Oh! Kou’s here too! Where’d he go…” you trailed off before letting her go and walking into the house full of people to look for your boyfriend.
“Kou?” You called out, winding through the crowd. “Kou?” You called again, squeezing past people until you ended up in your room, entering to see Kou sitting on your bed in a ball.
“Kou… ¿Qué pasó, Mi Amor? Why are you up here by yourself?”
“It… it’s nothing. It’s stupid.” He buried his head in his knees, trying not to seem weak in front of you as you stared him down, gently stroking his hair. “Clearly it’s not stupid if it’s making you upset. Please tell me what’s wrong… I don’t like seeing you like this.”
He lifted his head up slightly, just enough so you could see the blush covering his cheeks. “I got jealous when you greeted Nene like that… I’ve been getting jealous over it all day…” he hid his face again. “I know it doesn’t mean anything!” He quickly defended himself, waving his hands around nervously. “I just can’t help it…”
His blush grew deeper as you wrapped your arms around him tightly. He could feel your warmth and love as you squeezed him gently. “Kou… I’m sorry I didn’t realize how it made you feel. But you know you’re always the first one in my mind and in my heart.” You leaned over and softly kissed his cheek before laying your head on his shoulder.
“R-Really?” He stuttered, his heart almost beating out of his chest.
“Aye, Mi Amor.”
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I keep thinking abt your "'must a story have conflict?' Yes actually hope this helps" posts in the context of laudna and imogen because like. Their shippers keep saying like. "You just don't UNDERSTAND the beauty of their Perfect Relationship, the bond that Traumatized People have that makes them In Tune, so sad how you will never understand love or being with another etcetera etcetera" and it's like. what the hell are you talkinf about (they're usually the kind of ppl with weird and bad narrative ideas re: their traumas so uwu sad everyone is against them). Don't we want this relationship to be healthy and beneficial to both of them? Don't get me wrong, I love Toxic Girl Yuri fucked up tragic relationships as much as anyone else but shippers pretty clearly aren't angling for that kind of story, and neither would the trajectory of the campaign support it. The onscreen dynamic isn't even spicy enough to HAVE toxic codependency it's just. There.
what's funny is that actually my favorite era of their relationship was the "we transcend labels, you and I" thing Laudna said to Imogen. Partly bc personal aro feelings but also because THAT felt like genuine no expectations support to fall back on. The idea that they could just Be and always be It wasn't ASKING for the kind of dynamicism of a romantic relationship such and such, but now with the girlfriends thing, it feels like now there should be WAY more than what's been happening. Does any of this make sense?
Hey anon,
So I largely agree (will cover the one point of not entire agreement below). I do want to note that if you're the person who's sent me other questions recently on this topic please feel free to DM me! I think it's valid to want to voice those frustrations, and I get not wanting to do so publicly (though I think the harassment on Tumblr at least has largely died down) but also to be completely honest I have been fully in a Nein and Candela headspace with a handful of exceptions mostly relating to wiki stuff so I've been answering these anons but I'll admit it's not where my thoughts have been re: CR stuff for the past few weeks.
Anyway, I can understand the desire for a QPR or simply close friends for Imogen and Laudna! I am not aro myself, and I do enjoy a good romantic plot, but I'd rather have a well-executed story with no romance than a good story slightly marred by poorly done romance. However, it's actually really interesting to me (in a good/neutral way) that you recall it as "we transcend labels" because the actual quote (3x49, 4:52:57) is "We transcend words, you and I" and I could not stand that because my frustration has again always been that they spend a lot of time talking, and absolutely none of it communicating; they have never transcended words, they have simply not fucking used them well. More generously, I think a relationship in which a couple is on such a wavelength that they do have a sense of how the other feels without needing to talk (or read minds, in this situation) can be aspirational in real life, though again, I don't think that's actually what's going on here; but even if it were, that is not remotely interesting to watch. I truly do not give a shit in the end if relationships on the shows I watch are healthy or unhealthy provided the narrative knows what it's fucking doing and I think people who are obsessed with unproblematic wholesomeness are frankly suspect, but man, either be toxic codependent yuri or be two people trying to understand each other, instead of two people who seem to only occasionally remember that they are important to each other, and never seem to remember why.
But yes, the fact that virtually nothing has changed despite a relationship upgrade, especially in light of the relationship losing my interest as a platonic thing 30 or 40 episodes prior to them becoming a romantic couple is now thrown into more stark relief because you'd think something would change. Like, that's the thing. There was no romance; there was no plot. While I think the people who insisted from the start that CLEARLY they were already dating are the kind of people who would unironically ship my mop and broom solely on the basis of them leaning against each other next to my garbage can, at least if they had already been dating from the start a lack of forward momentum could be somewhat forgiven. I say somewhat, because Veth and Yeza were married from before the campaign or, for a platonic option, the twins were...twins from before the campaign, and both those relationships were still infinitely more complex and ever-changing and thoughtful over the course of their respective campaigns than whatever Imogen and Laudna were doing; it still, to be clear, would have been dishwater dull. But it would have been forgivably so; I would have simply politely lost interest episode 5 or whenever and moved on without saying much, whereas now there's a series of increasingly lowered bars in their wake.
So anyway, yeah. It sure is There.
#answered#Anonymous#cr tag#the lack of premise#i should go back and tag old asks with that...another day
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Thank you for not only humoring me but also responding to my angry rants in a measured and thoughtful manner! It's post ep-12 now and tbh I've managed to eliminate most of the full-on Way hate from my feed via judicial use of the blocking tool! Which means I can't tell if the small swell of sympathy I've seen since the most recent ep is because, by using Pete as a conduit, the show is inviting us (and Babe) to, if not outright forgive, at least acknowledge the coercion and abuse that has informed Way's actions, or if general opinion has not in fact changed, but my extensive blocking has merely succeeded in shutting out the angry mob!
It is curious, though, the complete disconnect some ppl seem to be experiencing vis a vis what the show itself - not just us crazy apologists! - is trying to tell us about Way and his motivations and psychology, vs the funhouse mirror version they see: a toxic incel who can only be redeemed by death. And yes, the hypocrisy of those who write essays pleading for Kenta's salvation whilst simultaneously wishing the worst for Way...I don't get it. Well, actually I do have some thoughts as to why.
I think some ppl can't see past - and will never be able to, and I won't judge them for that - the attempted sexual assault, but, more than that, they haven't contextualised it (ugh I know how that sounds but bear with me!). They still see it in terms of Way trying to rape Babe cos he thinks his ten years of pining mean he's entitled to him. They still see his actions as motivated primarily by a twisted version of possession and obsession masquerading as unrequited love. And if that was the case I would be right there with them, baying for blood! But for reasons both of us have discussed in length already, I see it very differently (and I'm fairly confident this is also how the show intends us to see it): I see someone who has been manipulated, abused and groomed for years, who is being held at metaphorical gunpoint, feeling he has no choice but to do this abhorrent thing because otherwise everyone he loves will suffer an even worse fate (insert usual disclaimer here about how this doesn't excuse or justify said actions). We've talked about how Way had TEN YEARS to use his power to assault Babe should he want to, and yet it's only when the walls are closing in, Tony's piling on the pressure, and Way's true identity has been revealed that he finally feels there's no going back and now he has no other choice but to go through with it. I do think maybe the show hasn't been explicit enough in spelling out that this was Tony's plan for Way the whole time - not sure if it's a subs thing, or an attempt not to lean too heavily into the mpreg thing, but they could have been clearer about that (I will be forever bitter that out of all of Tony's 'kids', we didn't get flashbacks of Way's background or his time as a child in Tony's house. I get why, to keep the reveal as a surprise, Way was kept as a bit of a mystery up to that point, but now it's out in the open it would be really useful and illuminating to see how he came to be there, how Tony planted the seed in his mind, how he met Babe, if he'd ever met any of the others, etc. I think show dropped the ball in general a tad after the big reveal - Way's screentime was reduced to drunkenly moping around in bars, which doesn't necessarily engender much sympathy! We could have had more about the meds, seen more of the real life ramifications for him if he's no longer of any use to Tony, etc.).
Other reasons I think ppl are quicker to forgive Kenta than Way: Kenta's abuse and subjugation have been shown much more regularly and explicitly - Way appears to be out and about living life freely, has his own place, his own income, his own friendship group, etc. whereas Kenta is more literally trapped/constrained/manhandled. And although we were told by Tony himself that Way is still effectively a prisoner, it's the ol' show vs tell thing again - that's still nowhere near as powerful as seeing Kenta's very continual and visual degredation. I also don't think it helps that the one scene where we are both told and shown the truth about Way's situation and his treatment at Tony's hands comes immediately after the attempted assault, when most viewers, understandably, aren't exactly in the mood to feel sorry for him!
I also think another possible explanation is that Way's actions specifically hurt Babe, our main POV character, and in a very personal way, whereas Kenta's actions a) had a more indirect impact (well, the trafficked children might disagree but they're only hypothetical so we don't really care about them as much!) and b) weren't personal - he didn't betray anyone's trust or friendship or love - so viewers find it easier to accept mitigating factors.
At the end of the day, I mostly just feel sorry for those viewers who either can't see past their own bias (obviously does not include anyone who for personal reasons may have been triggered)/admit they were wrong, or who lack the necessary media literacy to fully engage with the characterisation the show is offering us (hahahah says the self-proclaimed hater of all things Charlie/Babe!!!), since it's an infinitely more interesting and powerful and tragic story if you see Way, and Way's relationship with Babe, through open, receptive and, most importantly, sympathetic eyes.
my pleasure! i'm happy i have someone to talk with way about; the friends i usually theorise and cry about blorbos with are still way behind so i can't tell them anything bc i don't want to spoil them, and i've been venting to another friend (more like talking her ear off) but she's not watching or really interested so it's not really the same even when she has something to say lol
and yeah, at the end of the day we're responsible for curating our fandom experience, inasmuch as people don't tag hate etc. i haven't blocked anyone bc for some reason i feel bad blocking people which i know is stupid (edit: never fucking mind i am blocking now), but i do follow very selectively bc i get easily overwhelmed by my dash, so everything i've seen was either in the tag or by people i no longer follow. this means i have wonderful moots who provide me with plenty of blorbo feels and are not assholes about other characters <3
(fun? fact: my top blorbos are literally way > kenta > pete which is i think i'm no too bothered by the shipping side of things? as in it's not affecting me as it does sometimes the fact that some people are looking at all of this solely through their shipping goggles or whatever... but idk. i don't deal well with hate generally and after some thought i think that's what's bothering me about the whole way situation, bc the character/media you're hating on won't know bc it doesn't exists but their fans will.)
i totally agree, the fact we saw that scene with tony (even if it's clear how terrified way is in his presence earlier) right after the attempted SA didn't help. i wish we'd seen more of his past, maybe a flashback when he was at the bar… because as you said, once again the not showing/telling/letting people infer things isn't helping. specially when people aren't interested in the first place. idk i just like to understand characters independently of if i like them or not so this is! baffling to me! and yeah exactly, the fact that it was personal to babe plays a big part too, never mind how babe himself feels about way since we're already sympathising with him as our main character so…
as my friend (the one that isn't watching but is patting my back in these difficult times) tells me, sometimes people just let their prestablished idea of a character blind them to what the story is telling them. and honestly, their loss. skill issue if you ask me /j
anyway, the ep is about to start. let's hold hands.
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Marx 2, 8, 16, 24, 37
Gooey 2, 9, 17, 26 (Dedede for the insert character here), 41
Oooh characters I don't often talk about! Or at least with Gooey.
Marx: A canon or headcanon hill I will die on
I got two for you here. 1, I like Nova!Marx. Like Susie, he's part robotic. This is due to the wish he made on Nova. He technically doesn't need to blink, his eyes are glass. And his heart rate sounds more like a clock. And that teal stuff? Motor fluid.
Another headcanon I love (is it implied?) is the idea that Marx and Kirby were childhood best friends. It explains why Kirby listened to Marx's idea about getting Nova involved when the sun and moon were fighting. They trusted Marx's judgement. It makes Marx's betrayal hurt a lot more, you know?
They're on good terms now, and Marx has been (mostly) forgiven. But they're no longer as close as they used to be.
Marx: Unpopular opinion about them
Another opinion that I am unfortunately guilty of in the past. But I don't like the feralization/dumbing down of Marx's character that ppl in the fandom have done. He is chaotic, sure. But he's not stupid. He's not a wild animal that Magolor has to detain. He knows when to back off from a prank. It just takes a lot of pushing before that limit is made.
Marx: Deepest darkest secret they won’t even admit to themselves
This one ties into the headcanon question. Marx misses the old friendship he used to have with Kirby. He misses the days where the two just hung out. One on one. Marx's betrayal ruined that friendship. Sure, they're friendly again, Kirby still calls them friends. But Marx knows they won't ever be the same. And he kinda resents trying to take over Popstar out of boredom.
Marx: Most annoying habit
Marx in general is a very loud person. He doesn't know how to use an inside voice, or maybe he does and just likes yelling. No one quite knows. All everyone knows is that he's unbearable to hang out with for long periods of time, and no one gets how Magolor does it.
Marx: What they really think about themselves
Like Magolor, Marx has an ego. He thinks he's the funniest, best jester in Popstar. Maybe even the entire universe! He has the evidence to show that he's funny, because he always makes himself laugh! And others do too of course. And he does make pretty good schemes. And good pranks.
Gooey: A canon or headcanon hill I will die on
This one is thanks to a certain next gen au. But Gooey later learns how to use the Rainbow Sword! He did look up to Dark Matter Swordsman after all, in a way. This is a long while after Star Allies, and it does weird some citizens out that he holds the sword with his tongue. but then again, Gooey grabs everything with his tongue. He doesn't have hands.
Gooey: Scene that first made me love (or hate) the character
You know that image in one of the cutscenes where Gooey's just vibing and eating a fish? That specific image. In that moment I knew I loved and related to Gooey and just vibing.
Gooey: Quotes, songs, poems, etc. that I associate with them
I am so sorry anon. But I currently cannot think of anything that I associate with Gooey in the form of songs and such. I do associate Failboat with Gooey, but only cause the youtuber loves him.
Gooey: What they would do if stuck in an elevator with Dedede
I have the headcanon that Gooey is... wary of Dedede. Gooey was around when Dedede was a jerk, after all. Gooey remembers how mean they used to be to Kirby. And sure, Dedede has changed a lot since then. But Gooey, still being young, ends up being a little petty about it. So if they were both on an elevator, Gooey would be completely silent in a corner away from the king.
Dedede tries his best to be friendly. And Gooey warms up to him eventually.
Gooey: If they could have lunch with anyone in the world (living or dead, from any fictional universe or the real world), who would it be?
I think Gooey would actually pick Void Termina on this one. Gooey takes a lot after Kirby, just being a lot more naive. Gooey looks up to Kirby in general. He, like his idol, wants to see the best in people. And besides, he's dark matter, and he's good! Kirby's related to them in some way, and he's good! So surely, all dark matter can be good if they wanted to? Dark Matter Swordsman could be good...
So with no hesitation, they'd resurrect the world destroyer that almost ruined the universe. Just to have lunch with them and try to convince them to be good.
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bro get over ur 'performative feminism' idiocy 🙄 personally, i think half of ur analyses r shit but i can still find valuable or at least respectable commentary in them, just like i can find valuable or respectable commentary from those 'performative feminists.' as i should. bc thats how critique and discourse needs to be approached. just bc u can write a rant and do research doesnt mean ur arguments will be worth anything. and theyre prob not worth anything if u cant even respect the ppl ur addressing
I have to tell you, I’m fucking fascinated by this. There’s just so much here.
This will be an honest attempt at interpreting this, a long and at times quite serious reply to your rather unserious anon.
What is the point of sending this, anon? When I get anons like this, I can’t help but muse what prompts their authors.
1. I mean the least charitable interpretation would be that you want to insult me but in a way that to you subjectively upholds the pretence of respectability or intellectualism?
2. Or maybe your goal is to actually encourage me to change my behaviour?
3. Maybe you want to educate me on the proper way to do fandom “discourse”? Or on the merits of the philosophy you present here?
Any of those? None? All of the above a little bit?
______________
If option 1 was your sole objective, I’d say it works only as an insult. The tone of your ask is all over the place and it doesn’t really match its content. If I were writing this, I wouldn’t have called my analyses “shit” and the “performative feminism” “idiocy” while chastising me for lack of respect for the opinions of others. I don’t mind you matching my lowbrow energy and tone, it’s just that in my opinion you contradict your point by going down to my level.
Maybe something closer to this:
“(...)the phrase ‘performative feminism’ doesn’t have a place in proper critique or discourse(...)”
“(...)I find half of you analyses poor quality, unwarranted or downright wrong(...)”
______________
If you were aiming for 2 exclusively then, alas, shaming and condescension doesn’t work on me at all, for personal reasons.
______________
Third option is the one actually fascinating to me. You’re not the first person here that would be trying to lecture me on how there is a right approach to fandom “discourse”, namely your way. But you know, why not. I too hold very strong beliefs.
There are two issues with this working, though.
1. I don’t find your argument internally coherent. I will try to interpret what you’re saying, to show you how I understand it. Which may be completely contrary to what you were trying to say.
2. If my reading of what you’re trying to say is close to your intentions, I sense that we’re not really close ideologically and we don’t share values.
1.
The way I understand your last sentence is that according to you an opinion loses its value by default if it doesn’t meet some respectability standards.
Yet a few sentences up you claim that you manage to find some “valuable or at least respectable commentary” in my rants, I’m not 100% sure which rants do you mean exactly here. All of them? Or just those that are “shit”? How can you find value in something that you seem to consider to be by default void of value?
I’ll be real, idk what “respectable commentary” could possibly be, but if I show no respect to the people I address, then how could my commentary be respectable.
This confusion is also amplified by the mismatch of tone and message. Because according to the rules you laid out I should disregard what you’re saying completely, because how can your arguments be worth anything if you aren’t showing respect to me.
2.
And here we come to the clash of values.
The way I understand yours, is that you subject yourself to fandom takes that you find low quality or wrong because that’s the right thing to do. That according to you we should all strive to find something positive in all sides of an issue.
It reminds me of the centrist political “both-sidedism” almost turned into an art form. And centrism irks me because I’m a nasty lefty, a social justice warrior. I’m very far from the so-called “centre”, which in real politics is usually just non extremist right wing ideology. I will use “leftism” as an umbrella term here for various ideas, both economic and social, including feminism. It's a very reductive approach but in this case I don’t think a distinction is needed.
Social media platforms can have a heavy political slant, and fandom Tumblr on average slants left.
The problem is that in many cases it’s image building and not true understanding of the issues that comprise the political leaning. It’s using, but more often misusing buzzwords and appropriating language, sometimes in active attempts to render words or terms meaningless. All in the pursuit of maintaining the image of being “for the good things and against the bad things”. It’s a performance.
Performance that is self perpetuating because the people, who indulge in it, will pressure one another to express “correct opinions” on whatever is the hot topic of the hour. To always be available for outside scrutiny. Those people feel obliged to have public opinions, and have them fast.
Fandom and social media are a funny territory where petty arguments about characters or plot choices get mired in real world political topics and ideologies. While it is true that art is always political, political criticism usually can’t be nailed down in one catch phrase. And it definitely can’t be done without honestly engaging with the text and the context it exists in.
In the JJK Tumblr tags you will find a shit ton of posts, no longer than a paragraph, usually no longer than a single sentence, that call Gege a misogynist, that say that “Gege hates women”. And they will usually use one argument for that, namely that female characters die in JJK. Or more recently, that they are irrelevant to the plot. Both these takes stem from bastardisation of academic discourse surrounding female characters in fiction. They are in bad faith, they show that the person reflexively regurgitating them has no desire to engage with the text seriously and probably doesn’t know where such considerations came from, or understand how they functioned in their original context. But sometimes you will see more dedicated clout-chasers, who try to write meta posts on the misogyny in JJK without having a basic understanding of feminism, just trying to string together popular hot takes. Just to show that they don’t “mindlessly” consume media, that they are not afraid to criticise it and its author, an all out a woman hater. Show it in the most vapid and thoughtless way possible.
That’s why they are a performance. And this performance is to build the image of the op as a feminist, a "Tumblr good person". That’s why they use the trappings of feminist critique. That’s why I call it “performative feminism”.
An important thing to understand about me is that I don’t treat leftism as a zero sum game. I believe that political movements, organisations, people and works of art, can be doing some leftist things right and some wrong. That perfection on this is impossible. But there are also non negotiable issues, issues that you can’t really do a bit right, because human dignity, safety and livelihood is at stake. For example I’m not interested in listening to people who will condone genocide, I don’t think I should try to find value in their arguments. But I also don’t find value in reactions to genocide that dehumanise and use genocidal language towards a different group, even if a subset of that group is committing genocide. For me genocide is a non negotiable issue. I don’t respect people who try to perform support for genocide victims by justifying genocide others. People who instead of donating to relief support, or promoting relief support and direct pressure on government, chase clout by shouting out their vile opinions under the guise of supporting the victims, regardless whether they understand their own bias or not.
But you may say that I’m exaggerating, using a real life issue to illustrate my disagreement with your values, when maybe you were just limiting your philosophy to fiction. But my character flaw is that I’m very principled. Especially when it comes to my grander principles trickling down to more trivial stuff.
I don’t think I should respect people who appropriate and misuse feminist language to chase social media clout. I don’t find any value in their behaviour. I find it actually harmful. It reinforces this trend in first world leftism that activism can be done by yelling the right buzzwords on social media. Especially the right buzzwords about popular media. That activism and social critique doesn’t require engaging with the ideas, interrogating their own preconceived notions. That it makes them a “good person” when they misuse academic language to shit on a work just because it’s popular, just because they want the clout of an intellectual who can see through the mainstream. While it’s painfully obvious that they have no idea what feminist critique academic or casual is, or what the words they abuse mean, or what modern feminism even entails.
Can you see how funny it is? This idea that they can position themselves as above the mainstream, as the betters of those who enjoy mainstream, by reflexively regurgitating the most popular hot takes. And this lazy behaviour is purely voluntary because no one has to have an opinion on everything. It’s actually impossible to have an in-depth and well researched opinion on everything. So if you don’t have the time to do research, or to even properly familiarise yourself with the work you have the very valid choice not to. Have the choice not to parrot a hot take for the sole purpose of performing activism. You have the choice to just divert your attention elsewhere, towards things that you will engage with in good faith.
Because this kind of bad faith approach can lead to darker things. Because you can actually make yourself believe that your behaviour isn’t just a vapid social media act, you can convince yourself that you’re on some moral high ground, that you’re actually fighting against evil.
If Gege is a misogynist, if they hate women, it means that they are actually vile, a bad person and it’s ok to use violent ideation while writing about them. This is normalising dehumanisation for clout points. Priming yourself for viewing people and situations like this.
Gege is kind of an abstract entity for these people, it feels harmless because, come on, they will never meet Gege. And obviously this is all hyperbole and they wouldn’t really get violent.
I witnessed it in real time when a group of people in fandom decided that my friend was a bad person. Over trivial fandom shit. They dehumanised my friend amongst themselves and proceeded to attack my friend for months, until they left Tumblr. Attack them in racist, misogynist and queerphobic ways, while claiming it’s okay because my friend is an actual evil person, they are actually dangerous for existing in the fandom. And also their attacks are okay because they are PoC/queers/women and as members of these groups their behaviour can't be racist, queerphobic or misogynist by deafault…
You also misunderstand my actions towards those people. I’m not engaging in “discourse” with them. This is not academia, I’m not an academic. I’m pushing back against their behaviour. I’m expressing my distaste towards the groupthink. I’m not pretending to be respectable because I don’t think their behaviour deserves respect.
This is the crux of our disagreement, anon, our values don’t align.
#answering asks#a mentally well person would’ve just deleted this anon#but I need something to distract me from my anxiety and general shittyness of today#also anon entertains themself with reading shit analyses#i entertain myself with treating anons like they are serious people
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Yh i agree about people s obsession with new duos. And don t get me wrong, sometimes new and unexpected duos are great, i m talking to the treebark burner account! Ranchers were also great, and totally out of nowhere. But i think people are a bit too obsessed with 1 creating new duos and names in order to portray new narratives and theories and 2 making every close relationship romantic or familiar, as if close friendships, qprs or just good ol' rivalries did not exist 3 ignoring female ccs, even more so when it gets in the middle of a ship (this happens with women in every single piece of media btw).
Male-female friendships (or ships) are often ignored bc i feel a lot of fans feel as if these fanon relationships are somehow more "real" and not roleplay bc they are a "straight couple" (c'mon people, most of us are queer what are you doing with this mentality?), and are more likely to assume you ship the creators and not the characters, or worst, to actually assume the ccs are together irl (which was the reason some female ccs were against shipping in the 1st place). Re: this point, I will give an special mention to bee duo though, the fans really assumed they liked each other irl, which was very creepy considering they were underage at the time.
F/F ships are also often snubbed, although lately i ve seen them become a lot more popular, such as nature wives and more recently Gem & Pearl (ik the ship has a name, but i ve decided to ignore it bc we are better than that), which has been satisfactory to see. Still a long way to go though.
Hope i have explained myself correctly 👉👈 english s not my 1st language so i m kind of nervous about dping such a long post about such a complex issue. Feel free to correct me
no you're all good! thanks for the ask 🫶
also sorry to anyone who's here for tree bark only bc this acc is basically my alt now lmaoo (due to me keeping anon off on main)
you're right that ppl want to create new duos and narratives but sometimes... those ppl aren't that close. or had three interactions in a series. that isn't to say they're not friends or friends can't become close in a short amount of time. but the fandomisation and trying to come up with an incomprehensible name instead of saying their names is kinda ?? to me personally. not that's bad, it's just... i don't really get why you won't use their names. especially when it's not a long established group that frequently collabs.
you're so right about male-female friendships and especially in this fandom. i feel like m/f shipping in this sphere (outside of the obvious lizzie/joel) is seen as taboo bc it could leak into m/f irl shipping. at least that's why i was squicked out for like two years. esp bc m/f irl shipping was / is a problem (for example, i still see ppl asking in their public yt comments if stress and iskall are together. during hc2 people thought mumbo and false were dating when he was like 17 and she was in her early twenties and it's just fucking weird to truth in people's comments).
(unrelated to this discussion but i will always be salty that the antihcshippers never bring up the point of REAL AND ANNOYING M/F IRL SHIPPING IN COMMENTS and instead bully scar/grian shippers on twitter or whatever. really shows that they never cared about cc's "boundaries" or feelings and just want that fandom moral superiority. quick have you been to comment sections of eps posted by the women in like 2017. have you seen the random twitch chatters.)
the fanon side of m-f friendships/ships in hc is interesting bc pre gem and pearl, the three women had their "designated guy bestie that they always collab with" and it's quite obvious who: stress-iskall, cleo-joe, false-ren (to a lesser extent cub). former two are basically the only prominent m/f ships (iskall in particular plays into it). i had talked to ppl in dms about why false/ren isn't prominent and my main theory is what i call the yaoi shield bc ren is shipped with a lot of men LMFAO (also something something about ren/iskall and false/stress being complements to avoid the "boring" m/f shipping).
but i still wish m-f friendships get more recognition 😔 like if you're not shipping them in the character sense, there's no risk of being seen as irl shipping, so technically it's no different from same gender friendships, right? 🤡 and i do not like the instant "siblingification" to create a fanon familiar bond to avoid shipping. like sometimes it works. a lot of the time it doesn't. people can just be friends. and they all are actually friends.
ok, more of a tangent here, but dug up an old ass convo from 2021 in which there was a point like "sometimes romantic relationships can happen between ccs and it is definitely more feasible than ccs becoming family via marriage/adoption" and i said "so technically 'shipping hcs' are less weird than 'same family hcs'. hm". soooo 🤡🤡🤡 it's totally fine if you don't wanna ship, but it is also TOTALLY fine to keep them as friends instead of siblings / family hcs. i think this fandom has enough awareness now to know you mean friends when you portray them as friends.
i'm happy to see more yuri bc yuri is almost always the least popular in fandoms. but i think m/m and f/f also has the vibes of "less likely to be perceived as irl shipping so we can go wild" while m/f character shipping is still treated with caution? and people really don't want ccs to misinterpret it as irl shipping? tbh i feel like the modern day fandom has gone into "god forbid a man and a woman are friends" that m/f is seen as the "boring" "cop-out" and it goes all the way around. like yeah sometimes it's boring. but not the point of it being nonexistent lmfao like m/f could be funnnnn!!!!!! and they can be queer too!! bi4bi, t4t!!!! or they can just be hetero idk!!
anyways. as a m&f / m/f main i have Thoughts. but yeah 👍
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mike apparently has more trauma then el will and max to some of you let’s be real you guys keep creating problems for that kid to have. Hell some of you give their problems to HIM like what’s up with all the father abuse shit, we don’t know anything about Ted only that he’s an absent father. He’s not abusive like Lonnie is mike is not getting abused. Mike also didn’t go through upside down shit he’s just the side character helping el and Will since s2 let’s be fr. “Has connections to all the characters” so does hopper. Sure his character arc needs to be done but he’s not gonna be as important as el and will or heck max because she’s literally in a coma and we don’t know her fate.
I can still watch the show and not care about this guy it’s very easy to do the duffers made him unlikable anyway. If byler does happen im okay with it because it’s what Will deserves but if I were to write the show mike would not be with him. He would be with a less annoying person. But going back to him just not being as important it’s literally true I remember the fandom hating on mike when season 4 just finished but ppl have deluded themselves so hard they made him 100000 issues to uwufy him so they could excuse all the weird shit he’s done. “Hes seen wills body come out of the water” so did all his friends why are we always focusing on this kid when Will has other friends.
If I were to write the show Will would also be interacting with all the rest of the characters instead of being glued to mikes side. But that’s just me haaha
i swear is this all the same person??? what's in the water today?
and holy shit can someone finally tell me where the people are hiding that "steal" other characters plots? Mike has more trauma than anyone else... who ever said that. where are the Ted is physcially abusive people i've never seen them... have you considered just unfollowing accounts that say things that annoy you? because i've never seen any of these takes, only people complaining about them, and i'm doing great vibing on my dash
and please do tell me how Hopper has connections to all the characters, i'd love to hear your reasoning for this. Hopper has never interacted with Lucas, Dustin or Max. also none of the teens like Nancy or Jonathan. if i wanted to make the argument that Anyone else could somehow have as many on screen relationships as Mike (there isn't anyone) Hopper would be one of the last people i'd go for because he only exists in direct relation to the Byers and El plots. he doesn't get involved with anyone outside of those
nothing of what you're saying is even worth arguing with at this point, you're just really mad about a character existing and trying to rationalize how that character won't be important for the finale despite that being where the story is headed. Mike isn't going to "steal" anyone's plots or traumas i don't know why you even think that. he's a separate character with individual experiences and unique trauma. he's not going to take anything away from other characters
"why are we focusing on Mike" have you heard of cinematography before? ask the show why we're constantly getting close ups of Mike crying in these situations instead of Will's other friends. i'm not sitting here zooming in on Mike's face anytime something happens to Will or El. the show is nice and already blast the close up right over our screens because shockingly Mike's reactions seem to matter here somehow
but anyway explaining all of this to someone who just wants to complain is probably a waste of time. but as you already pointed out yourself, you're not the one writing the show so what you would do is thankfully irrelevant
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nope (2022) is on streaming i rewatched it :^)
“make you vile, make you a spectacle” oh ya love this quote
these horses are beautiful 
hollywood is such a nightmare this scene gives me such ick
oj is top 10 main characters of all time and im not even joking i love him
jupe on the second watch is very unlikable like he is feeding oj’s horses to an alien fuck off dude
“it was a spectacle people are just obsessed”
“he is a force of nature, he is killing it on that stage” :|
“i fuck one on occasion” lol
“what’s a bad miracle? we got a a name for that?” “nope” <3
theme: the power of giving something a name
“dyslexic ass” lol x2 em is so funny
“she booked a pilot on the cw” angel is so funny
angel: *ranting about aliens oj:“cool”
the characters in this movie r so good and play so well off each other like jupe and em r so funny and then angel asking them to give his service 5 stars it’s so good
such a scary scene and then it being the kids uhg i love it
also love that oj punches a kid and it’s actually not his fault
wow ghost is a beautiful horse
“what if it’s not a ship” he’s so smart and he’s so cool
i kno ppl don’t like the chimp stuff but i love the chimp stuff i think it works narratively with it being a jupe flashback of a pre established event, and is really important thematically (putting animals in positions where they are going to freak out and then killing them for it, using cgi instead of a real chimp cuz using a real chimp is bad, the rampage being already finished with (the chimp chose not to kill jupe because he didn’t look the chimp in the eyes/scare the chimp by running away and yelling) and only THEN does it get shot by the humans), it also establishes that jupe survived an animal attack once but doesn’t worry it will happen again with an animal (jeanjacket) that literally eats horses(which r as big as ppl! it could obviously eat people!)
“im gonna get lucky” oj is wonderful
“i swear on my wife and children’s lives” now don’t say that
“trained animals can be unpredictable”
like, jupe really thought it wouldn’t eat him and his wife and his kids like dude
sunglasses at night <3 love that song also the radio being on is such a good way to build tension/show when jeanjacket is close (and then then using it later to when they are drawing jeanjacket out)
the aesthetic of this movie is stunning
i love oj i love how he makes lucky feel safe by tapping the trailer i love that he knew not to look jeanjacket in the eyes where jupe looked straight up
the gaming chair and vr 😭 angel is so <3
“trying to tame a predator”
“ive been up under it a couple times now. i get him. it’s an animal, you don’t turn your back on a bear, you don’t wear red around a bull, it’s like that. you don’t look at it unless you want it’s attention”
“i call top hat” this is the real top hat monopoly player representation we need top hat monopoly players rise up
lucky is so well trained unbothered by the balloon man
camera guy is weird but he sounds like leonard cohen so i like him
angel with the reusable water bottle and camera guy just swallowing pills dry like these characters are immaculate
“sorry, im scared” i love angel
oj going to help the guy even tho he rlly has no reason to and the guy is annoying <3 he’s just a nice guy
“did u get that on camera?” lol
the run scene is perfect
non-flared jeanjacket looks like a sand dollar
again lucky just waiting patiently that’s a good horse
oj is the best he’s so brave and smart
em is the best she’s so brave and smart
this last action sequence is just too good i have no notes except that it’s fantastic
and then oj being there <3
fantastic movie everything is so intentional and brilliant 10/10 movie for me one of my favs for sure can’t wait to watch it again
i love how socal this movie is
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a reminder to all looking for jobs -
the fact of the matter is, and i didn't realize this because of my autism but you need to try not to act TOO smart on job interviews.
the hiring manager is looking for someone competent and qualified, but they are also looking for someone innocent, easily led and basically naive about things like labor rights or individual freedoms. do not let on that you know ANYTHING about these things. never say the word union. do not talk about anything close to organizing or labor rights in an interview, ever.
beyond that, dry humor and sarcasm are usually not appreciated by most interviewers. they want to see that you are dull, not someone who would ever question the system or become a problem to them legally?
so if you want the job, act smart, but not TOO smart. this always tripped me up since I thought by acting very smart and aware and discussing issues up-front, it would help get me the job, but that is not the case.
another thing - and it's sick that i have to give this as advice - gender nonconforming ppl also sometimes need to mask to get jobs! it's a real thing. i've noticed it as a woman, that in getting my current job, i seemed to get better results when i wore my hair down and used a lot of vocal fry and kept a kind, light tone with shorter and simpler words. i emphasized the level of service and kindness i would bring to the role. of course, that facade wasn't "me" at all, and masking in that case was absolutely exhausting. but you only need to do it for a few interviews really and can relax after.
i seriously never realized these things until getting into the working world, but this is what hiring managers really want - simple, dumb, but competent and reliable human robots who don't have feelings, don't get sick and NEVER complain. who always do more than the bare minimum. also we want you to be qualified and skilled in these 1000 technologies. but good luck out there though! i always thought - by being myself and showing myself as smart as I could be and by being honest about my weaknesses/shortcomings, the interviewer would see that i am serious and qualified. but there is so much more to it than that, and it is so hard to realize this as an autistic person who tends to act as their genuine self in their day-to-day life. interview masking is probably the most difficult masking i've ever done in my entire life because it not only requires straight-up LYING, it requires becoming someone you are not. it is acting, it is acting as a neurotypical, but my brain just doesn't work that same way, and it's unfair. it's unfair if a decent income is gated behind a random neurotypical interviewer "liking you". what if they don't like you? what if a person is just simply unlikable or coarse or has a real sick sense of humor? should they just starve in this country? it's so beyond, i don't get it.
#things i didnt realize until almost 28#i wish someone had told me from the get go#although i always did mask hard in college. i felt like thats what i had to do#i hate trying to get people to like me lol
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Serious Onions
I hadn’t put these on tumblr & it occurred to me that I probably should
o, my recent onion layers post has been met with unexpected great popularity - several ppl noted that they thought that, though it was obviously rather humoristic in style, it seemed to contain some on-point insights (it has been said that the best jokes contain a grain of truth), so, a few users asked if I might explain the thinking behind it.
General Remarks
As I previously detailed in a response, it didn't come from any particular source, but from an amalgamation of what id read in all the sources as well as all the personal accounts I'd read, what stuck out as noteworthy or what gets remarked upon as underappreciated/ misunderstood qualities by people of said types - and trying to think about which qualities are more 'fundamental' and which are reactions layered on top as defenses. The whole intrapsychic dynamics thing is a big part of what I find interesting to consider about typology, & independent of that I'd always been intrigued by the idea of "hidden depths" or less than obvious fundamental characteristics.
I was looking also at the process of getting to know a person, what more or less apparent characteristics are - the choice of 3 layers is relatively arbitrary - Loosely inspired by the saying that "Everyone has 3 faces, the public face, the close-up view of the inner circle & the inner stuff that maybe nobody sees", though I did not per se intend a 1:1 correspondence. ...that saying was probably thought up by a social having attachment core.
But more generally, without being too prescriptive, we can think of Layer 1 as what is the most obvious & apparent at first glance, Layer 2 as what comes forth when you get to know the person on an interactive-every-day kind of level or what is under the surface, and of Layer 3 as the basic disposition that all else build upon, the innermost self or some underlying truth – which for some ppl might be quite buried under a whole lot of defenses, for others is known only to themselves & for others yet might very much come forth in situations conducive to being open & shine through here & there.
For example, a 6 can look like a sour complainer or a hot mess, but when you look deeper, you might find that they're actually quite solid, dependable & competent, which you may overlook/ never get to know if you dismiss them based on the complainy exterior. But while some may seem 'obedient/dutyful', if you look further in (to the natural disposition that the individual themselves may have buried under sediments of defenses), what you actually find is this doubt/questioning. Furthermore, that's actually the core from which everything else logically follows.
though obviously here it's been given a blunt/humoristic slant with positive and negative moods/manifestations of the layers alternated for comedic effect - The inner core of the assertive types could show up as both pure and puerile for all three of them (in their own way), not like 3s its always pure and in 7s always childish, but there's some particularly that comes from their having the heart 'out of the loop'. I guess the 8 one sort of explicitly pointed as the "pure does not mean pure good" aspect of it.
Also, often the stereotype of the type is just based on the surface behavior but real people are 3D with depht and complicated inner mechanisms – in the end everyone’s an individual defined by more than just their types, but the deeper parts of a person also show some type-specific characteristics.
I'm breaking this into sections so it's not confusing to those with less patient attention spans.
Type 1
Layer 1: polish & politeness
Sort of the most obvious thing – they look put-together, nothing looks out of place about the outfit, no spelling errors, everything in its place.
Hence the common idea of them as neat freaks or perfectionists, not that either is always true – but ppl that have gone to panels have observed how if you see a bunch of them as a group, there can be ‚sparkly‘, ‚bright‘ or ‚brilliant‘ quality – especially contrasted with, say, the rigid/assertive 6s that can sometimes be confused with them, but present as more approachable.
This extends also to their behavior, as in being measured, having good manners etc. As competency cores they’d have a focus on ‚correct procedure‘ or ‚appropriate‘ responses, here in the realm of the concrete, of action and one’s spatial surroundings so that the results are rather visible.
A lot of the typical thinking activity is this quick binary sorting or evaluating – is this right or wrong, correct or incorrect, how does it compare? Is this the right amount of reaction? Does this match my inner image of how it should look? Not always solely moralistic but rather a kind of idealism applied to the concrete realm -
& that reflects on how they look, basically.
1w9s in particular may present a little stiff, awkward, overly formal or low on expressiveness, whereas the w2s can come across quite impassioned and zealous, a touch warmer and very well equipped to whip a crowd into a frenzy with fiery speeches or sermons full of rightheous indignation.
Layer 2: angery (meme spelling deliberate)
The well known catch is of course that there can be a lot of frustration underneath that.
There’s some individuals (especially if they’ve had a not so good childhood) where the anger can get quite diffuse & they’re not very aware of it;
Others very much realize that they’re motivated by a sense of frustration for what could be better that they’re trying to channel towards constructive ends.
How much that bleeds through depends on the individual, their level of self-awareness, how stressed they are & what situation they’re in, though they may underestimate how much of a critical, judgy or autocratic vibe there can be – a lot of em very much don’t want to come off that way.
With others, only their spouse or bestie might witness outright ranting or yelling.
There can be some contrast between the typically polite & measured surface presentation & the person blowing their top and then there’s of course all those often recited double life stories etc.
Those are of course the dramatic cases that make for dramatic anecdotes.
But on average you’re more likely to see rather measured responses - some don’t go beyond the odd nagging comment and hardly ever raise their voices (and might be uncomfortable with big displays from others, especially those of the w9 persuasion)
A lot of the time it’s nothing so dramatic, there’s just a bunch of only half-aknowledged pent-up frustration contributing the high blood pressure & tension headaches and the like.
Layer 3: sad idealist
Under the anger, tho, there’s sadness. On the macro scale, a grief over living in a fallen world full of injustice.
On the micro scale, a sadness about all that you’re denying yourself and how no one seems to be seeing your efforts.
As far as qualities that the 1s themselves tend to see as not getting appreciated enough, the EA studie named introspective qualities – that does track with my personal experience that a lot of Serious Philosophic Thoughts about the world can be found here, the world’s story state and uneccesary it could be if only everyone would care to fix it.
It’s worth noting that as the impulse types have sort of the least filtered perception, they take in all that’s happening on a direct, visceral level, so the revulsion or sadness at everything that’s ‚wrong‘ can be felt very strongly – emphatically state his some shameless behavior was ‚disgusting‘ or nearly losing his dinner over a crime scene photo -
And there’s also a real, sort of pure endearing sincerity of wanting to get it „right“, a real need to be doing one’s best, like that’s barely enough somehow.
Type 2
Layer 1: sugar spice & everything nice
The surface presentation is above all geared to be likeable and invite bonding – helpfulness is one aspect of that especially with sp-havers but it can get overemphasized. Other components depending on stacking may be approachability, charm, seductiveness, passion, flattery, schmoozing, even pointing out one’s special qualities, stressing exclusive qualities of the relationship or sympathy fishing for ‚legitimate‘ reasons like health problems or becrying the sorrow of a loved one etc.
as well as making sure to appear friendly, approachable, attractive, respectable etc.
Either way they feel they must actively make a good impression happen so they will actively offer to do stuff or even just go and do it spontaneously.
Recently I had a good chance to observe this in practice ’cause grandma is visiting and like, physically could not be stopped from cleaning mom’s house. If there is one dish in the sink she appears as if summoned by a magic circle even though she’s supposed to be the guest here. She’s also gone to pass on helpful reminders, made suggestions for how we should help mom & told all sorts of mildly melodramatic stories. I can understand that mom’s at times a bit annoyed with the nagging & the overreach, but, being perhaps able to look at this with more distance & less messy backstory, I’m making sure to say ‚Thank You‘ & give her hugs & stuff cause in the end she’s just a lonely old lady & wants to feel useful. I think I previously used to chalk it up to how she used to have an important job position & must be missing the special treatment & ability to contribute from that.
Layer 2: mother knows best
What distinguishes 2 from say, 9, is that its a far more proactive and somewhat ‚tough‘, it’s more hidden than with 5 or 8 but there’s still that, ‚I can handle it‘ thing. 2s are actually one of the types that can be pretty good in a crisis. (like 8, 1 or 6)
The whole ‚silk hiding steel‘ cliche might be invoked.
2 (like 1) tends to have the thinking functionality a bit out of the loop which has its downsides, like putting feelings over fact or acting without thinking, but that also means being low on doubt (not per se the relationship preoccupation kind of anxiety, they can have plenty of that, this is probably their big achilles heel) – one can act quickly & with certainty which, again, is great in crisis or extreme situations – hence why you often see 2s as charity workers, doulas, doctors-without-borders, hospice workers, homemakers etc. heavy responsibility emotionally taxing jobs that would emotionally crush others.
One might draw some parallel to 8 in that there is an aspect in getting a kick out of what would daunt others, but here not in the sense of risk, but rather obligation & responsibility and having other’s depend on you, having that sort of personal-relational power.
Of course this also has its downsides, as suggested by the funny monicker here there can be a tendency to hide behind the pleasant surface layer & not own one’s ambition, strenght or forcefulness. Or indeed the person may not know their own strenght or have low self-awareness of their own motives believing themselves to basically be the pleasant surface. (as 2 is somewhat blocked in the introspective function symbolized by the growth line to 4)
Though some know they’re tenacious & are proud of that – be it in a deserved or self-excusing way.
Also, even tough ppl have limits (another parallel to 8) – so one might either overextend themselves or snap and have some dramatic outburst because they feel overtaxed and unappreciated.
Layer 3: desperate hunger for love
What makes it a trap or a hell or a double bind is that on the one hand you rly strongly want to connect & have relationships, love & be loved etc. but on the other there’s a big implicit taboo of like outright showing that in some ways – cause that’s the avoidance, you can’t appear needy, that’s not gonna be considered very loveable or popular, or so your superego tells you.
& certainly our current capitalistic, competitive, every-man-for-himself culture that treats feelings as a gotcha doesn’t help, often when you hear discourse about relationships you could get the idea that there’s some unspoken assumption that whoever cares more somehow loses. Lots of dismissive talk about „silly lovesick girls“ and „needy bitches“, though, its not like more emotional men or dudes who are distressed about relationship misfortune don’t get viciously mocked.
That’s sort of the trap or tragedy that ppl get „tricky“ in response to rejection or fear of reection but then the trickyness brings about the rejection. But I imagine that there’s a special grief in realizing that few ppl want the same degree of interaction as you do & that some degree of holding back & censoring is needed for taking part in polite society. That can put you in a tricky position that can be a fertile ground for guilt feelings (much like realizing that you’re way less interested than most others can)
It’s worth remembering that ultimately these ppl just want to love & be loved (& some of ppl’s apprehension can be related to their own unease toward that concept or their own knotty relationships with want or need) – which isn’t to say that anyone should be put up with extremely unpleasant specimens, but even in those cases its kind of a tragedy when you look at it from a wider perspective. So, uh, maybe send your quarrelsome grandmas the occasional heart emoji or mother’s day text I guess.
Type 3
Layer 1: flashy facade
You know the drill: If they were in a book there would be a little „TM“ somewhere, and if they were in an animated medium, their teeth would sparkle when they grin. This is the part that’d described to death in all the descriptions out there so you can probably picture what is meant.
Glossy, flashy, bright and dazzling, megawatt smile, optimistic Can Do attitude, , versatility, constant improvement, efortlessness, „star“ presentation…
Though it must be appreciated that the degree also values by the individual, 378 is oing to be much flashier than, say, 359. Some what to be respected & known more for their „output“
Layer 2: efficient robot
Cordon describes this kind of interestingly – ovsly being a 6 and also a therapist he’d have observe ppl closely, and he described how you might be talking with a smiley, expressive person but also get the sense that somewhere behind that there’s someone else, carefully watching.
He describes that 3s often have an affinity to or identify themselves with high performance machines, and indeed that’s something you can confirm by looking at the works of some prominent musicians for example.
There’s that layer of ‚calculation‘ or ‚instrumentalism‘ – a split between the ‚social‘ and ‚impulse based‘ emotions in which the latter get tuned out to not interfere with the performance of the former. The attachment typical split-attention plays out by having the vigilant perception of ppl’s reactions and fine-tuned performing of social emotions existing in parallel with the planful action coming from the planning mind & the impulses.
Which unintentionally sounds like im describing a supervillain, but it can actually be an amazing & unique ability to handle social situations through a problem-solving lens, which can allow one to be efficient and masterful, and, in more, enlightened individuals constructive & persuasive in a way you couldn’t pull off if you let your own reactions feature into it unfiltered.
An example is how the protagonist of Kare Kano (probably 3w4) responds when she gets snubbed by her classmates. I could imagine stewing in your hurt and trying to find some meaning in it (which is what I would have done), I could imagine how someone might grovel or people-please in order to be liked, but the third approach that the protag actually uses would never have occurred to me:
It’s not that she wasn’t hurt by the experience or feeling insecure about it, but instead of dwelling on how she’s hurt or having a grudge against the classmates, she problem solves: She finds herself new friends who help her identify & publicly call out the ringleader behind the snubbing, and therefore skillfully maneuvers the class into siding with her. She even extends an olive branch to the former ringleader.
I am also a competency type so I might apply methodology to many areas of life where most ppl wouldn’t, but I would never thought of approaching this sort of social situation through such a lens, I thought that was pretty impressive of Miss Yukino.
Though, on the other side of that, there can be the temptation for some 3s to put off dealing with the fee fees for so long they just never get around to it, doing nothing but work work work , disregarding their human limitations etc.
Layer 3: golden retriever
In some ppl it’s very buried under a lifetime’s worth of need-nobody-tough-guy-act, thick calluses and/or believing one’s own hype, but somewhere at the beginning before it all went sideways they started out as some little kiddo with a pure & sincere desire to win love, approval and headpats, to hear ppl say that they’re proud of them, that they’re seen & valued, that they did good - which you might recognize as ultimately 100% purely feelings-based motivations.
Of course at some point the individual might have decided to settle for glory & hype because real love & approval weren’t forthcoming, or because of the vulnerability entailed in looking for the real deal. People can just not give you the approval, or they can laugh at you & call you names instead - & the disaproval stings if you easily attach to other’s perceptions of you.
So there’s like, just hype where it doesn’t matter where it comes from divorced from properly bonded relationships, and there’s nifty status symbols you can slap your hand on. You’ll show them. They’ll see when you’re swiming in money and having what all the ppl on TV have... and probably just, numb out whatever bits clamor for like proper connection until it no longer feels safe to drop the mask. Like this is a counterdependent mechanism. Like the rebel 6s or those more loner-y 9s.
Judging by the stereotypes you’d think the tough badass ellbow feelings-are-for-losers presentation is the default. Or well, it’s not like trying to be tough is always dysfunctional or overcompensation, the world is a tough cutthroaty place. Nothing wrong with being a badass as long as you’re not like exceedingly ruthless toward others.
But this doesn’t prepare you for pulling up some youtube video or podcast and you get these like really sincere expressive ppl that are obviously all heart & capable of a very ‚pure‘ sort of mirroring or connecting. And yes they’re all organized, yes they care about being popular, they like attention & clearly have, like, the charming, polishing and crowd-working skills of someone who’s like a moderator, but they also basically just want you to like you & think they’re cool no knots or trickery or underhanded hidden agendas.
That’s also why no one ever types Naruto right though he constantly proclaims that his goal is to embody the cultural ideal of his hometown so people will approve of him. that, and he’s sp blind. And a feeler. F types can often be the less ‚onion layered‘ version of a given type, presumably cause being poked in the lower functions hurts prompting the development of more guards. Though you can get some pretty guarded feelers if you subject them to enough bad parenting…
Though overall most 3s are probably still generally the quintessential „peach“ type person (defined in opposition to a „coconut“ where there is a hard shell/initial hurdle to get to the juicy center) – fairly easy to build a rapport with & become surface level friends with, but then there’s that inner core that takes a special level of trust to get to.
Type 4
Layer 1: distinguished sophistication
On average, the surface presentation tends to be distinguished, sophisticated, deliberate and cultivated – as this is a withdrawn type they won’t always necessarily loudly declare themselves & might well often feel that it’s not worth bothering cause ppl might not get it anyway (especially the w5 specimens), but if they do speak/ get involved, they will make their positions, likes & dislikes fairly clear. This can sometimes frustrate or confuse attachment types whose MO is to first find some common ground & then buil on that / see how good the fit is, & can take the pointing out of differences as a rejection or judgement.
Generally withdrawn types don’t expect others to agree with them (indeed if too many ppl agreed the 4 might be some degree of embarassed) but it’s just like – I say my opinion, you say yours, if they differ then they just do.
Granted, seeing as tastes & likes & feelings are Serious Business(TM) they may well lambast ppl who listen to the wrong kind of music (because of the culture & associations that that music is seen as a symbol for) – This is seen as having „strong values“ & if as a result you can’t get along with everyone, that’s just how it is. (though they may of course have too high standards, jump to conclusions on those associations or lament that they can’t find anyone who „gets it“) – but more mature ones are more willing to live & let live.
Even so, this is a marked difference to some of the types that are, at least on paper, easily confused, such as 9, 2 or 6 – those are all types that have some compulsion to appear approachable, personable and/or avoid antagonizing others.
Like 8s for example they’re not one of the types that are automatically nice but don’t want to appear easily impressed (if their approval were too easily given it wouldn’t mean much) – though to ppl with reactive components this may read as a pleasant lack of fake niceness.
Lately it’s been en vogue to describe 4s as ‚elitist‘ to like make them sound unappealing to common idealization-based mistypes but that’s not really neutrality either – can some 4s be superior snobs?
Yes. But not everyone. What they definitely are is specific, like idealizing a very particular kind of music or aesthetic , sometimes to the point of painting themselves into a corner. But „I like this particular thing & everything else isn’t my cup of tea“ doesn’t have to mean putting down others you can just differentiate yourself naturally.
And there is value in making very specific or particular or self-indulgent stuff that otherwise wouldn’t be created for fear that it wouldn’t have broad appeal - since they’re just, doing it for themselves with themselves as the intened audience.
The principle to understand here is like basically – „If no one will see me, I’ll see myself“, imbuing one’s actions with symbolic meaning to create a sense of significance.
It’s also worth noting that 4 is like, intellectual center secondary & wedged in between two competency wings so, some individuals can be fairly proud of their intellect & even brag of it in ways that 2, 9 or 6 probably wouldn’t. Which can be overdone to a point of obnoxiousness especially if there’s some defensive arrogance going on, but also lead to a sense of refined craftsmanship especially if the line to 1 is somewhat active.
In the same vein, individuals can also have a thing about self-improvement and self-betterment or take a ‚shamanic guide‘ kind of role.
Though immature individuals can also not think very much at all & resist all advice or improvement suggestions due to seeing their problems as unsolveable and any fixing attempt as unauthentic.
Layer 2: pure spite
So you meet your fave artist that had this consummate specific aesthetic, and turns out everyone who knew them up-close describes them as drama-prone, vicious, negative, liable to making incendiary statements, self-absorbed and just guaranteed to make the purity police get its panties in a twist.
What’s going on here?
On the most basic level, there is simply a lack of negativity filter, which doesn’t just concern relatively ‚pretty‘ negativity like sadness, but also making a big deal of personal poblems or expressing srong dislike, disdain, disgust, loathing or hate.
Hate is often seen as something that should always be got rid off, but, though there are constructive and non constructive outlets like for all emotions, it is not the only emotion that’s somehow all bad and doesn’t have a function. Some things arguably should be abhorred. Grudges keep you from burning yourself on the same hot stove twice.
Disgust is, at its most basic, the drive to avoid the contamination of the individual: „That’s NOT me. That’s disgusting. I don’t want to be like that“ – disgust can motivate you to be moral, or at least to hold on to what’s important spite can make you persevere when nothing else will sustain you.
Hence why a 4 component is often correlated with vindictiveness or revenge fantasies.
Obviously it can be overdone as like reckless dumb spats or personal vendettas that only lead to more scorched earth, but like, the functionality is there for a reason.
Nonetheless, core 4s can be very salty ppl, especially if they feel permanently wronged/slighted/ shortchanged or spend too much time simmering over how much easier others have it without then moving to the next step of action or acting in impulsive rather than constructive ways.
Layer 3: grief & longing
Most ppl eventually just accept that the world isn’t fair and that what is lost is lost – we might tough it out, suck it up, positively reframe it, tell ourselves it doesn’t matter etc. Sometimes that might be what you have to do to survive; Though sometimes there can also be a tad of self-betrayal there.
Either way, we forget the lost paradise – and the 4s kinda don’t. Whatever hurt they went through, they want to honor it and give it its proper space. It’s not necessarily that 4s per se suffer more or less than other ppl, it’s that their relationship to it is different-
And like, let’s acknowledge that there is a truth and a wisdom in this, or at least a fragment of the whole picture: Bad stuff is BAD. What hurts HURTS. What’s gone is GONE and never coming back.
You might say that it’s pointless to be hung up on that and that it cannot be changed anyways and, like, that’s the other types having their own slice of reality & fragment of the truth, but, what’s also true is… it was still bad. It still hurts. It still mattered.
You know how it is sometimes said that grief is the pendulum swing of love, or love with nowhere left to go? It’s the evidence that the love was there. That what was lost was worth something.
And there’s like, a sincerity and idealism in that, a very genuine thing (for all that it can, like all things, be overemphasized), despite the outer layers of drama and pretesion.
Some descriptions focus only on like, the sadness without the context or structure or particularity (after all everyone can be sad & for some its a longer journey to realize their sadness matters) whereas others paint only the uglyness and drama without connecting it to where it really comes from and neither of those is a complete picture.
Type 5
Layer 1: [*televison static*]
Which is, uh, obviously a sort of humorous play on the way that these are often considered as being somewhat hard to read, low on expressiveness, unforthcoming in disclosure, clumsy in social niceties etc.
Sometimes it is very much intentional to restrict an interaction to ‚strictly business‘ of course – can’t be friends with all the billions on the planet especially if you’re super duper introverted and also busy with stuff.
But i also think Cordon was onto something with there being a quick tendency towards freeze responses (in the same way that 6s tend toward vigilance & confronting the problem, and 7s towards running away/avoiding it) and if you couple that with the whole tendency to see „the outer world“ as the place that is potentially suspect, well…
In a sense its basically just means having an especially pronounced version of the whole „introvert needs a while to ‚thaw up‘ and get comfortable“ phenomenon.
There’s also the strong content focus, which can come off impersonal to some – or straight up rude or callous if the individual fails to consider how things might be taken on other possible communication channels (like a personal-relational lens or lizardbrainy power dynamics) – not considering these can also cause one to come off less convincing, as in aimless rambling or having little sense of presence.
It’s not always about hiding or diversion, telling you about some stuff that they personally find interesting talking more than strictly necessary.
I’m not saying you have to put up with annoying aimless rambling monologues, but you might want to be like, „No thank you“ rather than „Shut up you showoff/weirdo/nerd, no one wants to hear this“
There can be uncertainty as to how to interact at all when there isn’t a clearly defined activity or topic.
But you do read accounts where the individual in question ostensibly took responsibility & made sure to explicitly clarify their intentions and feelings verbally, but that still got taken as ‚mixed signals‘, when the person described just seems to be… the normal amount of nervous for a young person on a date, for example. You can only do so much about what kind of automatic fear response you have.
As these are usually private & reclusive, the number of those who get to look beyond the first layer is usually fairly small; Only their lover, bestie or immediate family members maybe. For some the number might be outright zero, unless they’re some sort of artist or wrote their inner thoughts & feelings down in some kind of journal. And even then there’s a higher than usual percentage of those whose materials were only published after their death.
And many very much prefer it this way, though you sometimes hear from the social doms that they are somewhat bothered by this, in that they want to be or subjectively feel connected (like all the other social doms, one supposes) but feel frustrated that they can’t, even if they’re quite capable of putting up an engaging, likeable front. You sometimes read the specific phrasing of the person wishing someone would see through it and move the conversation beyond the script.
Though, not having social, I can’t personally relate to that at all and the prospect of people assuming that I secretly want them to do anything seems threatening if anything. Though I share the perception that a lot of exchanges are really just ppl following scripts, but, for me that’s a reason to dispense with such ‚zero content‘ exchanges completely.
Layer 2: obsessive doomer
What you usually see reported when ppl get to know one of these up close is „Wow this person is super negative“ and „wow this person is a lot more blunt/direct than I thought they would be, weren’t they, like, shy?“ (Contrary to popular belief, not all introverts are shy.)
Besides getting them to move in with you, you might also seesomeone act a great deal less filtered in an anonymous setting or something like a short vacation where they have the option of never seeing anyone involved ever again.
I also recall this post of someone who couldn’t quite make sense of that one reticent sort of unreadable friend cause he’d only joi in their antics so often, wasn’t super expressive etc. though he had outright told them that their friend group is very important to him, „unless he’s drunk and then he’s suddenly very open about everything“ and I thought to myself, ‚Ah. That‘s probably the closest they get to seeing what he’s like on his own’.
If you look at a list of famous artists, writers or musicians or whatever their material doesn’t tend to be known for being like blank prosaic & precise or whatever but for being dark and intense and sometimes a bit provocative, or at least kinda philosophic.
Though, if you look at some of the earlier literature, like Naranjo, Palmer, Maitri and so on the defining characeristics rather seem to be „kind of ineffectual“ and „throws the towel rather easily & keeps coming up with reasons why its pointless to do anything“
So, what do these ppl do all the time by themselves?
One poster here wrote something like„5s aren’t necessarily all smart, we’re really just obsessive“, and I think they pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I mean, some were probably smart – Charles Darwin maybe? If there was only a single smart one it was probably Paul Dirac. But your friendly neighborhood specimen is probably not that, any more than every 9 is Einstein or that any 7 is Feynman....
You could get a pretty solid understanding of stuff too if you were reading about it or practicing it all the time, and probably thinking about it when you aren’t – instead of say, socializing or doing useful practical tasks.
And there’s absolutely no guarantee at all that you’ll get obsessed with something that makes money or that others think is impressive.
Though, if there’s one good trait or upside to all this mess it’s probably the way that you can just keep at it wether anyone cares or not, theres no getting discouraged from lack of praise or response, if anything one works best if nobody knows about it until the thing is nearing completion.
It is kind of an interesting paradoxon that you have this relentless focus on the one hand and this struggle or resistance to do what actually needs to be done on the other.
I can appreciate its interestingness, even if its the bane of my personal existence…
Layer 3: touchy bundle of nerves
Like most iterations of the ‚gooey center‘ trope this can get quite buried in some individuals especially if their parents messed up – You even do get some unpleasant individuals with poor self-awareness who then maintain that everyone else must be clingy, irrational and overdramatic because they don’t realize that they’re the sensitive ones. The Protagonist of the classical German novel ‚Homo Faber‘ is a prime example. A nasty stuckup sexist piece of work, but a strangely relatable one in some ways, to the point where I wonder about Max Frisch himself, though, cannot have shared his protagonists’ disdain for all things poetic seeing as he was a famous author & playwright.
Others may simply have misplaced the box with the feelings sometimes in the 70s and have no idea where they put it.
But lots of ppl are well aware of what’s going on inwardly, level of outward expressiveness onwithstanding, there’s a reason 4 is a common mistype. The anecdotal example people in the enneagram literature have to be commended for their „fun“ metaphors. I wonder sometimes whatever became of the „its like running through a field of cacti with no skin“ guy. That book was old, so he might no longer be with us.
In the end the behavior may not differ than much either way because, you know how some computer applications show you annoying alerts so often that eventually you just completely ignore them?
In a sense the defense mechanisms do serve you well, if you compare to some non-5 high sensitivity ppl. There are some shared qualities like being easily tired by drama situations, being easily startled, low pain tolerance etc. but generally „cant take violent movies“, „easily swept up in & affected by other’s feelings“ are not problems I have.
(though of course, more over/ less „buffered“ sensitive types have their own kinds of strenghts that we don’t, & being Like This also produces its own secondary problems)
Type 6
It’s been brought to my attention that take here skewed a bit toward 6w5; For 6w7, a bit more chill but a bit less self-reliance, something like a cross between this and the 7 onion. Still I’ll try to keep it generally applicable as much as it can be given the complexities of these guys.
Layer 1: commander contrarian
The range of presentations is great here, depending greatly on the environment and such values as the individual has considered to be worthwhile guideposts, yet if one were to to distill them all down to some commonality, it would be some degree of ‚hot mess‘ or ‚relatable everyman‘ flavor -
if not to connect with others or get their help, then at least to stay under the radar and avoid putting a target on your back.
There is also a tendency to be the one who considers how it might all blow up, whether it is expressed more as worry than as scepticism.
They might be complaining about you not following the rules, or complaining about the rules themselves, but they’re probably the ones doing the complaining or going against the grain of the prevailing opinion – sometimes, particularly for 6w7, it can even mean taking the positive side when the prevailing opinions are negative.
They’re doing us all a solid with this, as it has been shown that the presence of even one dissenting opinion greatly lowers the strenght of groupthink effects, like ppl agreeing with a crowd of actors that the longer of two lines is actually the shorter.
Layer 2: dutiful soldier
When you look closer, though, you see that though they might be complainers, they’re not quitters.
6s may often overreport the level of mess in their lives, have difficulty internalizing past sucesses (since, theoretically, it could still go wrong this time) and frequently exist in a state of ‚AAAAA‘, this is ultimately a type that has the potential to be quite perseverant, hardworking, resillient, dedicated and, at their best, even heroic.
And being all this while also having that ‚humble‘ presentation on top can also make you likeable & engaging.
This can be taken too war of course in sticking or being loyal to a cause that’s not worth it though it’s worth noting that they’ll be loyal to ppl that they agree with and that seem worth it, & once soundly dissapointed they might swiftly swing around to the opposite.
Layer 3: trusts no one including self
Zoom in further, though, and you’ll see that at the bottom is this mode of perception where everything can change as easily as thinking of a different possibility – the search for certainty, for something worth supporting or believing in, & to be prepared & steadfast oneself is precisely spurned on by one’s propensity to doubt and second-guessing one’s actions, whether one pursues those doubts, looks for something to allay them, or perhaps both at the same time (such as aligning with ppl but also testing them)
Something in there is always like „but how do you know? Can you really be sure?“ Wether or not the person’s conscious of it it’s consistently fueling their actions even if those consist of stronger clinging to a supposed solution or more fierce resisting against those who tell them they’re wrong.
The opposite response of always taking any doubt seriously isn’t per se better than denyoning it though if it leads to being overly suspicious.
Of course some individuals may respond in a different way depending on each particular thing they’re doubtful about few always have the same response all the time.
On some level it’s a search for a deeper truth that, when one is in alignment with it, gives a solid foundation to ones’ decisions (which can look very different depending on the individual, it could be a personal truth or a way of understanding the world. )
Type 7
Layer 1: happy happy joy joy
There is the assumption that one must have a pleasant, positive demeanor, so this is what such a individual might tend to be remembered for, though the quality of that rememberance can vary – maybe ppl liked the irreverent sense of humor, or how they brought some light and joy into other people’s lives, or that they were cool & fun to hang around with… or they might be thought of as sort of silly and irresponsible. Lots of variables regarding both the 7 themself as well as the eye of the beholder.
The rainbow candy-coating serves as variety or purposes. First the mention might want to keep things light for their own peace of mind, also humor erodes hierarchies and fun cool interesting lighthearted & stimulating atmosphere attracts people to you & also helps you charm them so they let you get away with whatever you please.
But there’s also a darker side to it like assumptions that they can’t depend on anyone to take care of them, and that they’ll be ditched if they become boring, a bother or a drag and that others won’t want the if they don’t bring the entertainment (& always bringing it can lead your friend group to self-select for ppl who are only in it for the entertainment value.) & that they can’t show their sadness to others which is like… not so fun.
It doesn’t help that their default fear response is to „look for a way out“ often by thinking up a solution or trying to reframe or explain away the problem so that what gets taken as not taking the problem seriously might actually be a direct sign of distress.
Layer 2: bucketloads of raw intelligence & creativity
However, despite the above phenomena, its important to stress that its not clowns all the way down.
Sometimes it’s like they kinda won the jackpot when ppl were handing out the talents:
- clever
- creative
- dynamic/ action oriented / energetic
- resourceful
- not too bogged down by inhibitions or ppl’s opinions
- confident
- eloquent
- charismatic
Most people can only pick like 2 of these at once.
Were it not for their twin weaknesses of Sadness and Shiny Objects, 7s would’ve taken over the world. Its like the universe had to nerf them.
See mother nature, this is how you properly engineer a mental dominant hexad type. You gotta add in some Extroversion as a required secondary power to make it actually sustainable to be running the most resource-intense types of thinking processes 24/7.
Of course not every individual reaches the fullness of that potential, some bail when it gets difficult or get overconfident & fancy themselves instant experts and then they can get kinda dilettantish, shallow & mostly hot air etc.
But imho 7s are underrated & one of those types that there’s hardly any content about, for everyone that’s like an irresponsible absentee parent or a vapid attention whore there’s like another who’s like really cool, badass & generous, and then there’s the ones that are just stone cold brilliant.
Layer 3: sad manchild
Where there is light, however, there is shadow.
First, there’s the infamous Inner Jail(TM) or like the tendency to avoid sadness & worry until it suddenly catches up with you all at once cause you stopped moving for 5 minutes.
There’s a reason 7 musicians are either like „Wild eclectic creativity explosion!!“ or Miserable Wail Of Sadness, sometimes going from one to the other depending on how the artists’s life is going or that they’re sometimes these ppl who kill themselves of all sudden though everything seemed fine & dandy even to their inner circle.
The other side of this, which is maybe more frustrating to others & often quite the contrast to the person’s apparent brilliance, is like, the petulance & childishness & refusal to take responsibility cause they have to get what they want and they must think of themselves in a good light.
A point to understand is that there can be a real frantic urgency to it, like, contemplating the opposite can seem next to unbearable. Unlike their direct neighbors 6 and 8, they’re not really that tought. They avoid the bad stuff cause they actually struggle to handle it, though they may also be overestimate how bad its gonna be. Hence also the tendency sometimes to wallpaper over untennable situations that they very much have the skills & resources to get out of – they don’t get over the hill cause they must be okay.
Though while I stressed the negative side of this quality for the purposes of having a punchline, is worth noting that there is also a positive pendant to this, like having a genuine childlike wonder, curiosity and enthusiasm about the world that is retained well into later stages of life & a far lower probability toward comformism or boringness. If you see like a middle aged person that’s still wearing colorful clothes, is somewhat up to speed with popculture or tech and talks to younger ppl without expecting deferrence, thats often a 7.
Type 8
Layer 1: strategic tactician
So, not everyone is actually going to have this layer since its presence implies the realization at some point that purposeful strategic action and wisdom are more useful than just yelling & banging on the table – You can get the very same thing that you want with a lot less collateral damage.
The thinking facilities need to be at least partially ‚online‘
The ‚thickness‘ also varies correspondingly to the extent that planning, understanding & foresight is valued as its own „input channel“ vs just a way to make X happen. (though „doing stuff“ is and always will be the main focus)
Its presence is indicated by realizations like „sometimes staying calm/acting unfazed actually gets you more influence“, or knowing the value of diplomacy at least on a purely pragmatic level.
Strategy is informed by sharp instincts and impulses given a broader repertoire of „how“ -
The result is often quite formidable & masterful.
So, am I saying the young & dumb are one layer short? Well the choice of 3 layers was always an abstraction for the sake of analogy…
8 has as much depht & interestingness & juicy inner mechanics as any other type but, there was this one book or website I read that had like couples advice & the section for 6s considering to date an 8 said something like „don’t overthink it, they probably mean exactly what they said, they’re straightforward ceatures“
Which needs to be said, as 6 pretty much exists as a towering edifice of precariously balanced forces – but like, not overcomplicating here is meant like in the strict sense of „not adding complications that aren’t necessary“
Layer 2: animal with clothes on
Even the actual 8s themselves report a certain affinity with wild animals, in all the good, bad and simply neutral ways.
Some report that they kind of felt ‚grown‘ already at an early age since they always could think of what to do – there was this excellent essay post a while back about how having less filtering/ being more focussed on the concrete means you feel everything that happens very fully & so you have strong immediate reactions in response, & this creates a feedback loop where eventually your quick judgements/ immediate impressions get strong, developed & sophisticated.*
For 8 in particular these quick judgements rely on paying attention to your basic instincts and also kinesthetic/sensorimotor learning.
I’ve read some individuals describe it as basically being connected to the millions of years’ worth of accumulated information that went into making our instincts & sort of sensorimotor processing the way it is -
If nothing else evolution’s had a long time to optimize that lizard brain so if you want to make quick and cheap split-second decisions.
So you get ppl that can react fast & efficient in a crisis, which probably contributes to the tendency towards cognitive (not necessarily social) extroversion & stimulation seeking (thats what being an extrovert basically is – your base activity level is fairly low so need more external stimulation to get to a comfortable point. )
Of course to onlookers this can simply read as uncontrolled, intimidating or fierce.
* It strikes me that a reverse corollary of this probably explains why 4s and 5s often report the experiece that they „didn’t get the manual“ or that „everyone else already seemed to know how everything works“. Having a strongly filtered/interpreted mode of perception & not using the impulse center much, you don’t build up these automatic responses/snap judgements, so it seems that everyone else ‚already knew what to do‘.
So it can feel like you still don’t know how anything on this weird planet works well into advanced adulthood, as reverse of the 8s and 1s quicker self-reliance.
So after a quarter century, the mystery has finally been solved: The other kids at the nursery didn’t actually know what they were doing any more than I did, of course not, how could they have? We were all babies. They didn’t need to know „how“ cause they were going on friggin autocomplete, which I simply had no talent at.
It’s really bittersweet to have a reason 25 years too late.
Would fit right in with the lyrics of „isnt it ironic“.
I kinda wish I could go back and tell 3 year old me, but she probably wouldn’t have understood.
Do you hear this, Inner Toddler? I did it. I got the answer….
I wonder if there’s some equivalent in this in 1s and 2s as well as 7s and 8s.
Layer 3: pre-civilized grade schooler
Sometimes you hear that whole Big Teddy Bear cliche & that’s like, half the story, missing some nuances. Sometimes it describes the situation well enough but other times its inadequate.
Cause our culture likes to use children as images of perfect idealized innocence & harmless but actual kids are rather more a primal undivided state before the introduction of mental labels, containing both the potential for extremely genuine, unaffected compassion and careless malice of ripping the wings off an insect in play without realizing the full impact of what one is doing.
I think playing children can also be thought of as a symbol of wilderness and chaos – when there are regarded as neutral things that simply are, in all their complicated interestingness.
The Inner Toddler is also where the feeling of being wronged & wanting to get your will comes from, a blunt, pure and basic thing, even if that input then gets filtered through razorsharp instincts and sophisticated thought. You got the heart there off in its own little compartment and held back by the „blockage“ represented by the line to 2, so that it is in a sense kept safe where the world can’t get at it. But our feelings are still often where our motivations come from, especially long-term motivations that go beyond the basic „grab sandwich“ or „assert dominance“ (which arguably doesnt require that much thinking or feeling.)
Type 9
Layer 1: generic niceness
That’s sort of a kinda mean way to put it for comedic effect, but what it refers to is how the first contact surface level presentation tends to skew vaguely friendly but inoffensive, with some reluctance to state opinions, show distinguishing traits, state wants etc. and a general tendency to be accomodating or just quiet, disinterested & not very attention grabbing etc.
Generally you need to establish some trust first before the edges and corners are allowed to come out, with the 9w8s having on average a lower threshold for this.
Though, generally speaking with an average person you will eventually let their interesting traits come out & get more animated once they get comfortable, at least if they like you (though they may still put off avoid particularly big & serious confrontations or revealing things they’re insecure about)
Sometimes you see the idea floating around that to be a 9 you must be a doormat all the time, that’s not really correct. If anything that would probably indicate low self esteem, bad parenting or a lack of good quality friends if someone doesn’t ever feel comfortable saying their opinions & stuff.
Layer 2: pent-up frustration
Ah, but even if you try to be nice & accomidating all the time, sometimes you’re gonna want to do stuff, and sometimes you are not going to like what happens – especially if you’re an impulse type.
It’s only natural that never getting you way, always holding it in for the sake of avoiding drama & always giving up on what you want is going to create some degree of frustration, resentment or even anger. Humans arent doormats, being pushed around naturally & correctly makes you angry.
Blowing your top, however, would create even more of that drama you wanted to avoid in the first place, so that’s not an option either…
So there can be a diffusing of impulse or a numbing out of what would constitutionally have been a fairly receptive configuration. Sometimes with the sideffect that you also knock out the like, useful impulses to do stuff that goes beyond ingrained habit.
Some 9s, especially 9w1s will tell you that they rarely ever get angry, but it typically still takes some effort to stay that way, eg one might get distracted absent minded or forgetful when there i a lot of stressful stuff going on cause a lot of energy is devoted to NotGettingMad.exe
These are the ppl who can be sometimes at risk of not standing up for themselves.
Others are quite aware of it & brimming with inward frustration that might come out as snark, stubbornness or passive-aggression
Though its not just frustration alone - giving up on stuff/ feeling that following your dreams is impossible or that you’re not worth it, can also create sadness & stressing about conflict sources or general unadressed life problems can also make you anxious.
Often leading to the frequently reported phenomenon that 9s are often not nearly as chill or happy as they might outwardly appear, especially if they’re more introspective mbtis.
But even the ones with less inner awareness of their feelings & stuff can still have all of this going under the surface.
Layer 3: dreamy philosopher (interesting!)
...and then, who would have thunk, you find out that your pleasant but unassuming new friend actually has some pretty deep thoughts & feelings in their head, a rich, vivid imagination, a variety of well-developed interesting hobbies (though often more of the chill, domestinc kind), & just all manner of hidden dephts. Incluing sometimes picking a whole lot of stuff about their surroundings or the dynamics between the people there that others would miss since they would be more focussed on the parts that are relevant to their own interests.
As 9 is the ‚pure‘ impulse type, there’s a fair degree of energy, groundedness, vitality & ‚natural wisdom‘ to be unlocked here (that comes out in a less ‚colored‘ way than for 1 or 8) – or rather, one 9 described it to me that they get more animated & on the more that the environment is one of comfortable ‚flow‘, which correlates with my observations – like a normally super shy, closed off individual could suddenly be very funny & even cheeky when their family members are just vibin’ on the sofa or playing random party games.
In any case, for a type that characteristically tends to worry about being boring ironically they probably lower than average chance of boringness.
Are there some genuinely boring 9s? Probably, there’s billions of em, some of those are probably boring, and some part of interestingness is in the eye of the beholder.
I’d say that boringness mostly happens when someone isn’t aware of their potential for depht & dismisses the interests or sometimes turmoil-filled thoughts that would cultivate it as not worth pursuing, so that this inner place of imagination & softness gets obscured or go undeveloped.
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Old Friend | 17|? | DEAN AMBROSE
OLD FRIEND 16 (×)
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Hope you all enjoy this 😊 and I'm sorry for not posting regularly but I had so much going on. Gonna really make an effort to be active again for real this time
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Send in some requests 😉😘
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Okay so first... sorry that it's taken so long! A lots been going on but I'm gonna try my hardest to be active like I used to...
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Secondly send in some requests ppls 😊 I literally have zero lol
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Hurrying out of the Anoaʻi house, I was at my car that sat in the drive way in no time. Tears continuing to make their way down my face.
I couldn't believe Joe, the man I had come to know and love as a big brother would do this to me.
Letting Colby know where I was, or had been staying.
And worse bringing him here.
After knowing what he had done almost a month ago.
Kissing his fellow WWE superstar, Becky Lynch at some concert they were at.
I mean if you're going to cheat at least do it behind closed doors when you know you're a famous figure and find are quick to pull out phones just to get a picture and post it to every social media platform imaginable, making the woman you're mentioning in interviews, taking around family and friends at events, posting on the same social media sites, the woman you're supposedly I'm love with, look like a goddamn fool.
"Fucking jerk..." I mumbled, through tears, picking up my phone to dial the number of the one person who I knew would at least side with me.
The one that wouldn't try to play peace maker.
Like don't get me wrong I know Joe had or has only good intentions but still...
Just send a quick text or something so I could've prepared myself to face the man who's calls and texts I've been ignoring.
Purposely.
"Jon..?" I chocked out, upon hearing the sound of the man on the other line pick up his phone.
"Y|N|N..?" I heard Jon ask, his voice already filled with worry. "What's wrong? It's nothing with the baby is it?" He continued, throwing a couple more questions at me.
I shook my head, momentarily forgetting I was on the phone and he couldn't see before answering with a sniff. "N-no," I finally stuttered out. "Colby just showed up here with Joe. And I wasn't ready to see him because it's so hard to see him and not picture him with his lips on the red headed bi-"
"Y|N," Jon said stopping me before I could get my curse word out. "Have you stopped to think that maybe Joe thought that he was doing the best thing for you and your relationship with..." Jon stopped for a second or two before letting out a, "him," that was filled with the disgust he's been feeling for Colby since we found out that Colby indeed did the very thing Jon had tried to warn me he would do.
Well no its actually the disgust he's had from the start of my relationship with Colby.
I'm pretty sure it went all the way back to when Renee introduced me to the father of my child.
I wasn't necessarily with him or in view of his face to see his reaction but judging by how he was when he saw Colby at my old house a week later, I'm positive it wasn't good.
I frowned, just now noticing my tears had finally stopped rolling down my face. "That's not what I was expecting to hear." I replied with a huff. "Well it kinda was," I shrugged. "Because we both know Joe and there is nothing but good intentions with that man, but still..."
"But still what?" My best guy friend Jon, questioned, and even though we were on the phone, I could sense he had that annoying, but sorta adorable smirk that showed his dimples just a bit, on his face finding it amusing that he'd caught me off guard with his words. "You thought I'd agree and jump at the opportunity to talk shit about them?"
I groaned, rolling my eyes. "Not them, Jon." I mumbled feeling the need to remind him this call was only to bash one person.
The person that hurt me after promising me that was the very way he would never hurt me.
"Just him." I again spoke up, leaning back in the driver's seat of my car.
Jonathan sighed, "Trust me, with how I feel towards Colby for what he did to you, I also think it's time you talked to him so you can get out what you need and decide where it is you want to stand with your relationship with him." I heard say, unable to believe that I was talking to Jon.
My Jon.
Or is this my Jon?
I'm so confused...
"Where is my Jonathan?" I gasped, trying to fight the urge to laugh at my own dramatic outburst.
"Right here, Y|N." My friend replied, not bothering to hold in his chuckle before getting serious a few seconds later, throwing wisdom my way. "But you and him are having a baby, going to be parents, and as a soon to be dad myself, I think, well, know that if it was me and Renee in you and Colby's position I'd want someone to be a true friend to me and tell me where my girl was and that's what Joe understood as already being a dad."
My eyes widen, as I practically ignored all but one part of Jon's speech.
He's gonna be a dad?!
"You're gonna be a dad?" I squealed out, every bit of my sadness now washed completely away now.
Okay, so maybe not all of it, but still...
Hearing Jon's news definitely cheered me up.
"Renee's pregnant? How far along is she? Why didn't she tell me?" I wondered out loud to my friend, throwing question after question, after question at him. "Oh my gosh."
"Yeah, two months," Jon spoke up, happiness in his voice. "But don't call her or anything. We haven't told anyone yet, except family, and even though you're basically family to us, she thought it'd be best to wait until you weren't going through a rough patch with Colby before-"
I frowned, shaking my head. "You guys didn't have to keep that hidden for my sake. I could be sad for myself and happy for you and Renee at the same time." I giggled, adding a quick, "congratulations," to him before leaning back in the seat of my car, rubbing my growing bump that was starting to show through my clothes if they were fitted.
For a few more minutes me and Jon continued our talk, as I joked with him how me moving to another state seemed to be the one of the best things that could happen to their relationship as of late.
How our first borns are gonna be close in age, and grow up to be the best of friends.
I basically got so caught up in talking with Jon that I lost track of time and forgot why I was even sitting in my car in the first place.
I really needed this
•
Colby stood up for like the forth or fifth time beginning to pace again.
It's been almost an hour and she still hasn't come back in
"I should go and see if she's okay." He spoke up, placing the beer he was swirling around in his hand, unable to enjoy it, down on the island in Joe and Galina's kitchen. "She may be in trouble or something." Colby added, exaggerating.
"I think she just doesn't want to see your cheating face." His friend, Galina said, her voice just a whisper but still loud enough for Colby and her husband Joe to hear.
"Seriously?" Colby asked, starting to get frustrated at not just Galina's words but the fact that his girl was avoiding him by staying out in her car. "Did you not hear anything I said when trying to tell you what actually went on with me and Becky?"
Joe's wife simply crossed her arms in a careless manner. "You did but it's still not a reason to do what you did." She replied, taking up for the mother of Colby's unborn child. "And you shouldn't have done that to her regardless of what the situation was."
As much as Colby hated having to defend himself to her, he, at the same time loved that she was willing to stand up for Y|N.
He found solace in the fact that the friends he'd known for over ten years, who were like family to him, was also like family for his better half.
And was ready to defend her when she wasn't around to defend herself.
"I know, and-" Just as Colby was about to respond a then silent Joe finally spoke up, muting both Colby and Galina for a moment.
"I'll go see how she's doing." He said, picking up an unopened package of oreos. "She's probably pissed about what I did too, so I'll go apologize to Y|N|N and then maybe see if I can get her to come in and talk to you."
Colby nodded, before raising an eyebrow. "And you need oreos to do that?"
"Dude," Joe began, giving Colby a look. "Have you never heard of a peace offering?" He asked before walking out of the house, not waiting for a answer.
But just when he got outside, and laid eyes on Y|N's car, he could see the driver side door open, and her getting out.
"Damn, Y|N," he said with a groan of some sort. "I was just coming to lure you out with some oreos." He said, his face forming a childish pout.
He saw Y|N shake her head, giving him a playful hit on his arm after she reached him. "No milk?"
"I knew I forgot something," Joe replied, face palming himself. "I was so worried about coming out her to find you and apologize that I forgot the milk. Stupid, stupid me."
"Aw, you're not stupid..." Y|N replied, trying to keep from laughing. "An oreo peace offering is still good even without the milk." She added, holding out her hand to Joe. "Now gimmie."
Joe smiled, sighing in relief to himself as he placed a few cookies in Y|N's palm, grabbing a couple for himself before placing the package down on the hood of her car as they both leaned up against it. "So we're good?" He asked, a hopeful smile on his face.
"We were never not good, Joseph." Y|N smiled back, leaning over and swiping the package of oreos. "You don't need anymore of thes."
"Oh, and you do?" Joe, chuckled, getting a nod from Y|N.
"I'm pregnant so, yeah." She replied with a giggle.
Joe chuckled. "Pregnancy looks good on you." He replied, seeing Y|N try to hide the redness that was starting to show on her face, before saying a quick "thank you."
Both of them soon let a silence take over before Joe cleared his throat, gaining a side eye from Y|N.
"You didn't just come out here so we could share oreos did you?" She questioned, now looking down and playing with her fingers.
Joe shook his head. "I really came out to apologize for brin-"
"For bringing my ex boyfriend here..." She mumbled, causing Joe to stand up from the relaxed, leaned back position against the car he was previously in.
"Ex? You decided on breaking up?" He asked, feeling worse than before that he had brought Colby here.
Y|N shrugged, as he waited for her to say something. "No..." She trailed off, looking down to fumble with her nails. "I just wanted to see how it felt to call him that."
"And?" Joe pressed on.
"I hated it." Y|N said with a sigh. "Even after what he did, me not having any contact with him for almost a month, practically crying myself to sleep over him, and not seeing him..." She paused to bite her lip. "I still love him. And I hate that too."
Joe nodded, holding out his hand for Y|N to take it. "I get it, but he told me what happened between him and Becky and I think you should let him try and explain it to you so you can see things a bit clearer to make the right decision for you."
"And if I want to after, I can dump him?" He heard Y|N ask with a playful smirk on her face.
"Hell yeah." Joe immediately responded with a laugh, grabbing Y|N and pulling her in to a side hug as they both started to walk back to the house.
•
Okay, Y|N it's time
Time to face the man you've been avoiding, that is...
"I'll take Galina with me to go pick up the kids from my mom's so you and him can have the house to yourselves." Joe whispered to me, seconds before we both walked into the house.
I nodded, swallowing hard.
Me and Colby was about to be alone together for the first time since he'd left for the live events and house shows he was scheduled for, that week, which was also a couple days before i had found out about him and Becky.
Ugh!
Why couldn't you have told me a few minutes ago that you was planning on leaving me alone with him, Joe? I mentally questioned him.
I would've literally begged him to stay.
The second me and Joe entered the house, both of our significant others, well Joe's significant other and the man who stepped all over my heart, came rushing out of the kitchen, my eyes immediately locking on Colby.
It was weird, no matter what I felt for him, and it wasn't anything good at the moment, I couldn't help but think of how much I had missed those beautiful brown eyes of his.
It's just, right now they looked like they held nothing but sadness.
They didn't shine as bright as they usually do.
Was that because of me?
Was he also broken over this whole thing?
"Hmm..?" I questioned, my words barely audible as I looked at Galina.
I had completely blocked out anything that was being said, as my attention was only focused on Colby.
"I said, don't let that idiot get you too upset." She repeated, shooting a glare at Colby.
Nodding my head, I tried to fight back a laugh, but failed as I replied with a quick, "yes ma'am," making Galina join in on the laughing as we gave each other a hug.
"I mean it though Y|N." She spoke up again, as we pulled away to leave out the door with her husband.
She is such a mama bear
"I'm pretty sure she hates me with a passion right now." I heard Colby say, once we were finally alone in the house.
You can't blame her
After noticing my silence, he began walking over to where I was standing, stopping by the couch and motioning for us to have a seat, which I eventually did after a few seconds.
"Okay, so um..." I heard him speak up again, scratching af the back of his head, like I've noticed he would always do when he was nervous to say something. "First off, Y|N," he paused and reluctantly reached out to grab my hand. "I'm sorry and I miss you Y|N|N."
I missed you too, Colby, I mentally confessed to him unable to bring myself to say the words out loud.
Not this second, at least.
Colby eventually let go of my hand and sighed, his head hanging low, before he brought it back up, looking at me once again. "I didn't mean to hurt you the way I did Y|N..." He said again as his words sorta trailed of, like he was trying to figure out what to say next and believe me when I say, I wish he didn't say what he eventually did.
"I just wish you had found out about me and Becky from me, and not from the internet."
Oh god
So it is something between him and her...
Is that why he hasn't called me babe or baby like he mostly always have done?
Is he about to confess his love for her to me?
•
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sooo people (r*na’s) are starting to talk about this. Im getting a little worried, i mean there’s nothing to be worried about i know my pw will be engame but this still could mean something, right..:(
Meg Donnelly talked about HSMTMTS in a recent interview and she revealed that she had filmed a lot of scenes with Matt Cornett which means EJ and Val will have a friendship. "When we filmed High School Musical, most of our scenes were together so that was really cool. It was so easy and so comfortable and we actually got so much closer on the High School Musical set. It was really weird not seeing him in a blue wig, but nonetheless, it was great." (This part is from an anon but still addresses what you're asking about so I'm putting it t/g.)
Here's the article everyone's freaking out about LOL. I have quite a few asks in my inbox about this part Meg talks about, so I will try to answer them all today (some t/g to save time). First thing first, let's all take a nice, deep breath. Okay? Breathe in. Breathe out. Now, I don't think we need to worry all that much just yet. Didn't we all predict months ago there was a strong possibility EJ and Val could be childhood friends from camp? Maybe they’ve been attending Camp Shallow Lake since they were junior campers and have always been close friends. Does Meg’s quote here really surprise anyone? To me, it just (partly) confirms Val and EJ may share history/a friendship and they’ll use it as an opportunity to show EJ’s growth as a character from the last time he attended camp (when he food poisoned Emily so Nini would be the lead). Val was presumably there at camp when it happened. But EJ doesn’t operate the way he used to (during his selfish 1.0 days) and Val may very well call attention to that. If they are good friends, maybe Val will let the audience know that she sees a real change in him from last year. He’s not who he used to be. The EJ now is “a really good guy” (2.08) who tries to do the right thing (in the right ways this time!) Just b/c “most” of Meg’s and Matt’s scenes were t/g doesn’t inherently mean that’s the end of Portwell lmaooo. Meg also said a few weeks ago that she feels like ppl will “really like” her character, even tho Val will contribute to some drama this season. I don’t think she would make that claim if most of the audience was supposed to hate/dislike her. I’m not getting antagonistic vibes from Val given her character description, which implies she won’t be just another Lily. Tim also said the Wildcats would “come head-to-head and heart-to-heart with Shallow Lake campers Jet, Maddox, and Val," which very well could mean Gina misinterpreting EJ and Val’s relationship at first before she has an eventual heart-to-heart with her by season’s end. Please keep in mind this show spent 2 whole seasons building Gina and EJ up as individual characters first, then progressed their story t/g. It took them 2 seasons to even agree to go out on a date together. With S3′s timeline being only 2 weeks, I doubt Val will cause any lasting damage to Portwell. This is the first season that they’re dating and we, the audience, get to see EJ and Gina as boyfriend and girlfriend for the first time. It’s more likely Val will force EJ and Gina to confront any insecurities in their relationship during these 2 weeks than Val causing them to permanently break up. Plus, as far as we know, Meg will be guest starring only in S3. I don’t think we’ll see her character again for any future season(s) considering Val may be based in California, not Utah. I get the feeling once the trailer is released, Val’s part in the trailer may be deceptive in that it’ll look like she’ll cause bad drama for Portwell, but it could actually be the good kind of drama that will help strengthen them in the long run. TLDR: don’t stress over Meg and Matt sharing “most” scenes together in S3. I know Portwell have a tough season ahead of them, but who says they won’t continue on this journey together? Val might just help EJ realize just how much he cares about Gina and how different his relationship with her is from his previous relationships. We just won’t know until S3 starts airing.
#hsmtmts#hsmtmts speculation#hsmtmts s2#hsmtmts s3#hsmtmts val#meg donnelly#matt cornett#tim federle#ej caswell#gina porter#portwell#gina x ej#ej x gina#nini salazar roberts#thanks for the asks!
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