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pumpkinpaix · 4 years

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HI! I'm new to the MDZS fandom and I fell in love with Suibian, but you don't see it that much. I seen somewhere that it would burn out a weaker core and I cried cause I wanted to see that, and as far as I know it doesn't happen anywhere. I'm wondering if you could tell me anything and everything you know about Suibian. I'm starving for anything about it

hi anon! ahahah, it’s always a dangerous thing to ask me about “anything and everything” on a topic because I usually have too many thoughts, most of which are unorganized. but! if you’re interested in that, then here we go!

First, re: your comment about Suibian burning out a weaker core: I am not aware of this theory (or is it something from an interview?? if someone knows, please say so!), but if it brings you joy, then it’s certainly an interesting one to consider! Unfortunately, I don’t have much more to say on it because I’m unfamiliar with it, but I do have quite a lot to say on some other Suibian concepts!

ask and ye shall receive (a very jumbled heap of thoughts as i spiral further and further out of control):

[all rough translations are mine, and thus all mistakes are mine. I am using the version of the novel that is available on luoxia because I can’t be bothered to go flipping through my print edition ahaha.]

the questions about Suibian that interest me the most are why it sealed, when it sealed, when Wei Wuxian began to wield it again, and what that might all mean. I’m going to be talking about novel, CQL, and audio drama canon all together, because I think looking at each canon alone and in combination can raise a lot of very different points!! (I have not watched the donghua or read the manhua yet, so forgive me, I have nothing to say about them. /o\)

So! the one piece of information that we’re given consistently throughout all three of the canons is that Suibian was sealed after Wei Wuxian’s death and that no one but Wei Wuxian himself (and Jiang Cheng, by proxy) could draw it from its sheathe. Thus, Wei Wuxian’s identity is revealed and the golden core swap comes to light. Wei Wuxian is surprised by this, and asks Lan Wangji, “Did it really seal itself?” (novel, chapter 63; CQL, ep 42; audio drama, S2E15).

The novel and audio drama both include a line from Wei Wuxian that emphasizes Wei Wuxian’s surprise, implying that sword-sealing is very uncommon:

万中无一的大好事竟然让我给撞上了

Something incredible that happens less than once per ten thousand times, and I actually encountered it.

the irony, of course, is that this incredible thing is what ended up blowing his cover. rip Wei Wuxian.

but what I think gets really interesting is comparing different points at which Suibian sealed itself and what that might imply in conjunction with other information. Jin Guangyao says “shortly after” his death, but CQL includes a scene in episode 19 that implies that Suibian actually sealed itself much earlier.

[ID: Gif from episode 19 of the untamed drama. Lan Wangji attempts to draw Suibian after he and Jiang Cheng storm the Nightless City and retrieve their swords. He cannot pull it from the sheathe. /end ID]

(in case anyone is curious, it’s about 30 minutes in. I spent the effort to make the gif, so I might as well give you the timestamp lol)

this scene takes place during the period of time when Wei Wuxian is in the Mass Graves (aka the Burial Mounds) after Wen Chao cast him down and left him for dead, right near the beginning of Sunshot. I’m fairly certain it’s not mentioned in either the novel or the audio drama, so this is a CQL-only detail. (please correct me if I’m wrong; I get my canons muddled all the time //hides face)

CQL basically does nothing narratively with this scene other than giving us some sad shots of Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng (honestly, valid ;A;) but!! if we decide to accept this scene as our jumping off point, we can get to some interpretations about Wei Wuxian using information from the other canons!

take this exchange from chapter 57 of the novel (immediately prior to the massacre at lotus cove):

江澄道：“还不是又为咱们的剑的事去温家了。一想到我的三毒现在说不定被哪只温狗握在手里，真是……”

他面露嫌恶之色，魏无羡道：“可惜咱们的剑还不够灵，要是能自动封剑，那就谁也别想用了。”

江澄道：“你再修炼个八十年，说不定可以。”

Jiang Cheng said, “He’s gone to the Wen sect regarding our swords again, hasn’t he. Whenever I think that my Sandu might even now be in some Wen-dog’s hands, ugh…”

His face filled with loathing, Wei Wuxian said, “What a pity our swords don’t have enough spirit. If they could seal themselves, then no one could even think about using them.”

Jiang Cheng said, “If you kept cultivating for another eighty years, maybe.”

from the novel, it seems clear that sword-sealing is something that only happens when a person’s cultivation level is exceptionally high. if this is true, and we go with the CQL timeline of Suibian sealing itself long before Wei Wuxian’s death, it means that Wei Wuxian’s cultivation level wasn’t just high, it was leagues above pretty much anyone else when he was still a teenager. (In fact, Suibian had most likely already sealed by the time this conversation takes place.)

If we don’t go with CQL’s timeline, however, I think we could make a very different argument. It’s a bit of a reach, but I think it’s a lot of fun, if you’re willing to come with me on this journey!

Jin Guangyao says Suibian sealed itself “shortly after” Wei Wuxian’s death, but we don’t really have external confirmation of that. For all we know, someone only bothered to test it sometime after his death, and Suibian had been sealed for some indefinite amount of time. All we can say for sure is that by some point shortly after Wei Wuxian’s death, Suibian was already sealed and resisted being drawn by anyone who tried it.

We’re told over and over that one can only wield a spiritual sword effectively if you have a golden core/the spiritual energy to match it. Wei Wuxian stops carrying/using Suibian because he knows that in his hands, it will act as nothing more than an ordinary sword. His method of cultivation is no longer suitable for the sword. Suibian is tied to both Wei Wuxian’s soul and his golden core.

If sword-sealing only happens when the cultivator’s level is unbelievably high, then I think we can make the argument here that by the time of his death, Wei Wuxian’s core was likewise unbelievably strong – but Wei Wuxian is no longer the one developing his core. Jiang Cheng is.

I know it’s a ridiculous reach. To be clear, I don’t think the text actually intends this or supports this in any meaningful way, but I do think that it gives us some very tasty potential!! If Suibian sealed itself sometime after the core transfer (which, honestly, we wouldn’t know – after all, who’s been trying to draw Wei Wuxian’s sword?), but just if, I think we can plausibly make the argument that Jiang Cheng’s cultivation is truly extraordinary.

:DDDDDDDD

It’s fun right?? It’s a fun concept!!! Even if it’s nonsense, even if it’s not that deep, even if this was an unintentional coincidence, I think it would be interesting to look at this as being some kind of measure of Jiang Cheng’s accomplishments. On the flip side, I also think it’s very important thematically that Jiang Cheng’s value as a person has nothing to do with his cultivation, that he is, in fact, always second-best, but that doesn’t make him any less worthwhile or deserving of love. Maybe I’m just projecting lmao. Of course, being extraordinary doesn’t preclude him from still lagging behind Wei Wuxian–Wei Wuxian might have just been more extraordinary ahahah. We can have both!!

Now for a totally different thing! Interestingly, this conversation about cultivation levels and sword-sealing (the one with Jiang Cheng) also happens in the audio drama, S2E12 (about 15 minutes in, since I just checked), but Wei Wuxian adds an additional comment:

(don’t have the transcription of the original chinese, I’m just going to translate it as I hear it)

“But maybe you don’t need to cultivate to a certain level to have your sword seal itself. What if there were some other way?”

these two versions of the conversation actually imply pretty different things, I think! this addition opens the possibility to the audience that sword-sealing is possible even without an extraordinary level of cultivation, and I think lends credence to the idea that Suibian is just an unusually loyal sword, regardless of Wei Wuxian’s cultivation level. Whether that’s something inherent to Suibian’s “personality”, or whether this says something about how Wei Wuxian inspires loyalty wherever he goes, or whether it just speaks to the strength of their bond remains to be seen.

(obviously, this could imply any number of other things as well, but I find this to be the interpretation that makes me happiest.)

If we go with “Suibian seals itself after Wei Wuxian’s death” in this canon, I think this emphasizes the loyalty aspect with a touch of grief.

If we combine this with CQL and have “Suibian has been loyal since he was a teenager”, that also emphasizes the loyalty aspect – just in a different way.

Of course, doing meta combining unique details from different canons is largely pointless in terms of crafting any real “analysis”, so I’m mostly saying all of this because I enjoy the process of building the supercanon in my head that brings me the most joy! To summarize the varied interpretations I’ve brought up in this post:

CQL-only: Suibian sealed itself when Wei Wuxian was a teenager, at latest, by the time he was thrown into the Mass Graves.

Novel-only: Sword-sealing is very rare and achievable only through extraordinarily high cultivation. Shortly after Wei Wuxian’s death, Suibian is discovered to have sealed itself, so Wei Wuxian’s core, by the time of his death, was extraordinarily powerful.

Audio drama-only: Sword-sealing is considered very rare and achievable only through extraordinarily high cultivation, but might also be accomplished by other methods. Shortly after Wei Wuxian’s death, Suibian is discovered to have sealed itself. If Wei Wuxian’s core is not wildly and improbably powerful, this implies that Suibian has become an exceptionally loyal sword by the time of his death.

CQL/novel: Wei Wuxian was already incredibly powerful by the time he was a teenager.

CQL/audio drama: Suibian has been exceptionally loyal to Wei Wuxian since at least his teenage years.

Novel and audio drama-only have a much wider range of when Suibian could have sealed itself, as mentioned, so there are further variances within those interpretations.

there’s a lot of potential here!! with my personal feelings regarding the story, I like novel-only with Suibian sealing post-core transfer, audio drama-only with Suibian sealing post-Wei Wuxian’s death, or CQL/audio drama with Suibian sealing as a teenager pretty much all equally. I think the CQL/novel interpretation gets too close to casting Wei Wuxian as a hyper-special and innately noble individual in a way that undercuts the strength of his character arc, but that’s my opinion. (As an aside, this is actually one of my major complaints about CQL in general, independent from what I’m talking about here. But that is a topic for another day ahahaha. To be clear, I still love CQL very much, despite my many frustrations!)

As for what I think is the most “likely” to be the “right” interpretation (whatever that’s worth), I would probably say the one that emphasizes Suibian’s loyalty with Suibian sealing post-death, because I think it’s the most thematically cohesive and has the textual support to back it. (I think it’s a valid interpretation even using novel-only text; it’s just slightly less explicit without the additional comment from Wei Wuxian.)

A final detail:

We don’t get anything from either CQL or the novel that explicitly addresses when/if Wei Wuxian is able to wield Suibian again, but the audio drama’s rendition of the “Yunmeng” extra very subtly indicates that by the time that extra takes place, Wei Wuxian has cultivated a golden core and is carrying his sword once more. You only get it at a couple of moments, but Suibian sometimes clinks when Wei Wuxian moves or when he bumps into something. The two instances I can remember specifically are when Lan Wangji tosses the ring onto him (the ring hits Suibian), and when he’s rowing the little boat onto the lotus pond and the motion makes a sound. It’s!!! Extremely good!!! It makes my heart very full!!!!!

ANYWAYS, if all of my scattered rambling didn’t fill the Suibian-shaped hole in your heart, I would also like to recommend @zeldacw‘s wonderful WangQingSuiChen series of comics, featuring anthropomorphized versions of Wangji guqin, Chenqing, Suibian, and Bichen. I believe the most recent comic is here, and there are links to the rest of the comics in the post. If you just want her general tag for the AU (which is more than just the comics), it’s here!

If you have interest in listening to the audio drama yourself, you can purchase it through the MissEvan app (Mao’er FM). There are buying instructions linked in this post! If you need English subtitles, @suibiansubs is the group that does them. :)

I really can’t recommend the audio drama enough, tbh, it’s really really dear to my heart, and the team clearly worked so hard and cared so deeply for the story they were trying to tell. Consider this my regularly scheduled plug for the audio drama ahaha.

As always, my meta is my meta and if you don’t vibe with it, that’s chill! I change my opinions constantly (I think I changed them like three times in the course of writing this ahahaha), and I know some of my older meta has been making the rounds and every time I see it I think about all the ways my views have shifted since I wrote it rip. For this post moreso than usual, I want to emphasize that pretty much all of the meta included in this is meant to explore intriguing what-if possibilities, not for serious literary analysis purposes. I am aware that a lot of this is reaching/overinterpreting into implications that probably aren’t there. I just think they’re fun to consider!

so this was a mess, but I hope you or someone out there enjoyed it anon!!

(ko-fi, if you’re so moved)

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norcumii · 4 years

Text

yet another sequels rewrite

UGH. I have absolutely no stamina anymore. Ok, so this might be an unholy mess especially with as little sleep I’ve managed lately, nevermind the headcold, but here we go. I want it out of my system, dangit.

Under a cut because long thing is long, and MANY MANY SPOILERS FOR THE SEQUEL TRILOGY, UP TO AND INCLUDING RISE OF SKYWALKER.

Also, apologies, you can see where I got caught up in the banter and a character hogs the screen when they’re meant to be more on the sidekick level of prominence. I should fix it, but I enjoy razzing the character too much, so. Er. Sorry?

(and then you can see about halfway through my energy levels just died and the rest is handwaving. THAT one I’m sorry for.)

Episode 7: The Legacy of Skywalker

This begins much like canon, with Poe and BB-8 getting vital intel from random old guy in the desert – it’s not about Luke Skywalker, it’s about what the First Order plans. Finn doesn’t shoot, and no Dark Side figure romping around – though Phasma IS there, and she kicks serious ass and is generally terrifying. Poe is captured, Phasma questions him, sends him off to an actual interrogation cell.

We cut to a small smuggler vessel, sleek but not top of the line, has seen some wear and tear. Inside, Kylo Ren is having just another day as a smuggler kvetching with his crew – none of them want to deliver goods to Jakku, but damn the pay is decent (and stars know business has been thin lately – something’s been riling up the smuggling underground, though no one can point to what exactly). Kylo is tall, favors dark clothes, maybe has a helmet for when going into battle but not around the ship (very similar to that of the bounty hunter Boushh). His crew are Rose and Paige Tico, mechanic and gunner respectively. The sisters aren’t happy he wants to make the delivery on his own, but he’s determined – he needs them to come to the rescue if things do go badly. Someone has a bad feeling about this, but fine, whatever. Kylo ends with a cocky grin and a swagger as he pulls on the helmet and straps on probably more guns than are necessary (attentive audience members will note there is nothing REMOTELY like a lightsaber to his gear).

Meanwhile, Finn and Poe – tortured by a familiar style of interrogation bot – escape, and crash, and Finn presumes Poe is dead. He ends up meeting up with Rey, desert scavenger, and her new friend BB-8 who recognizes his jacket. In the background, we can see Kylo delivering a pallet of goods, bargaining with the locals, etc. Then the First Order swoops in, blowing shit up. The crowd scatters, Finn and Rey hauling each other to the parked ships. They run towards the closest – only to have it blow up before they get there.

The audience sees Kylo shrieking “My ship!” and gawping at the explosion, and about to be shot down (he was doing a damn good job fighting his way to the escape vehicles before then). Rey and Finn grab this idiot and drag him towards the nearest ship, aka a battered old Millennium Falcon. He shuts down a little as they sprint aboard, Finn dives towards the gunner turret while Rey works to get them the hell out of there. Things happen much like canon, though things break down in the fight. Kylo finally shakes off the shock of losing his ship and almost dying, and sprints towards maintenance to Deal With Things (by now the audience STILL doesn’t know who he is, but there should be the suspicion that he’s tied into this – he’s too familiar with things). The Falcon escapes into hyper, and Kylo is very angry about having to leave his crew behind, as is Rey about leaving in the first place.

We swap back to Kylo’s crew, waiting for word from him. As they’re scanning frequencies, they pick up a Resistance SOS. The sisters are exchanging looks, clearly not happy about this. “Aw man. Kylo won’t like this.” “I don’t like it, nevermind Kylo. Wait, play that on repeat, was that – Paige. Paige, that’s Poe Dameron’s ID squawk.” They share agonized looks, then Paige quietly says, “You know the Generals wouldn’t send him out if it wasn’t important.” “...shit. Kylo is gonna be so pissed.”

They rescue Poe, only to reveal the ladies are undercover Resistance agents, don’t tell Kylo, he cannot know. Meanwhile, they’ve gotten a space!E-mail/text from Kylo, he’s off planet and trying to get back they should get safe then contact him. So they’re off to take Poe to the Resistance.

Back on the Falcon, things break down again, dumping them back into normal space. A very crankry Kylo starts repairs, he and Rey get a bit snippy about how one does this, he’s being territorial until pushed then he’s all “you know what? Fine! You do it your way, see if I care!” Finn just wants to deliver BB-8 to the Resistance, guys, please stop this. Kylo is very against going to the Resistance for any damn reason at all. He just wants to get back to his ship, and off this stinking bucket of bolts! Rey...is speculating about Han Solo, and other legends (all of which make Kylo hunch his shoulders and be all disdainful). She wants to help Finn and BB-8, but she HAS to get back to Jakku.

They get tractored by a Resistance corvette, then boarded by Chewbacca and General Han Organa, who wants to know WTF is going on here, he hasn’t seen the Falcon in forever, not since Lando disappeared with it. And – wait. WAIT. WHO IS THE TALL SKINNY SMUGGLER IN BACK, SLINKING AROUND TRYING NOT TO BE NOTICED? WTF BEN?

(Rey and Finn: Who’s Ben? “That – that would be me, guys.” “I thought you were Kylo Ren!” Han rolls his eyes, looking embarrassed. “You’re really calling yourself that? Still? You came up with that when you were five.” Kylo gets a stubborn look and glares right back. “Hey, you know what, maybe I could’ve just named myself after the family cat, would that’ve made you happier?” Han has an agonized look. “Your mother named it after a land walker!” “And you’re complaining about Kylo Ren?? It’s not like anyone else in the family is any better! That was AT-AT the third, she has burdened at least two other animals with that ridiculous–” Finn: “Excuse me, but could we possibly save this argument for later?”)

Saved from more embarrassing family moments by the First Order attacking (unrelated to the Jakku mess, should emphasize how the First Order is getting up to more and more shit in the galay), Vice Admiral Holdo aboard the ship tells them to go, she’s got this. Off the Falcon goes to Maz Kanata’s.

We finally see the leadership of the First Order - a cloaked figure at the head of the table (maybe a holopresence?); Hux; Phasma; another cloaked figure, slouching and apparently uninterested in what’s going on. Something something ominous plans, the Resistance is the last bastion against us, the Republic is corrupt and just as bad as its predecessors, burn away the past and let new life grow forth as we dictate it, to create something new and glorious (and altogether creepy as fuck).

Back on the Falcon, Han and Kylo are Not Speaking To Each Other, but Han is answering basic questions about how the First Order’s been up to shenanigans, clearly someone’s paying off politicians and/or controlling them, they tried working within the system but that finally became a clear dead end so here they are. Grumbling about Luke being off on a mission and Lando’s been missing for awhile, it’s been rough. *MEANINGFUL NOT-QUITE-A-GLARE AT KYLO, who is still totally ignoring this* They’re headed to Takodana, which should be a solid neutral location - they can contact the Resistance there, then send everyone on their way. (He’s totally keeping the Falcon, though. It was his first!)

Things on Takodana go very similar to canon. The group splinters some, Rey finds the lightsaber, visions of vague betrayal, glimpses of Order 66, hints of the Big Four meeting. The First Order attacks (again) much to everyone’s shock because this is Neutral, how dare. Han and Chewie get captured instead of Rey. Leia shows up, invites them back to Resistance HQ, Kylo is...torn. He goes along with.

Reuniting with Poe, Kylo sees the Tico sisters being far chummier with the locals than they should be, realizes his mother had spies watching him, HOW DARE, he is an ADULT why are they LIKE THIS--

“You can yell at me all you want later, but right now we have data to decrypt and a rescue to plan, especially if you want to yell at your father in person too. It was his idea.” (It was, but Leia is THE head honcho, and she was the one who had to approve it.)

Data is from a spy, most of it has insane good encryption, but what they can make out is a HQ and something about Lando (??!?). They have coordinates, Finn has intel, so off they go for a rescue.

Since travel time is a thing, we need to see actual interaction with the new heroes. The new trio sparring, talking, hanging out playing space chess. Kylo is the awkward older brother figure who totally does not know how to fit in but somehow does a little anyways (note: these moments should be in the minority. He’s a side character, not a main). Getting to know and hang out with Rose, Paige, and Connix. Leia holds regular lightsaber classes for all interested (Finn’s a natural, Rey’s interested but prefers her staff, and Poe’s been doing this for years (Kylo is almost aggressively absent)). Folks keep stumbling over Rey in the hydroponics (look, there’s an AMAZING montage here, ok?).

The focus should be on Rey, Finn, and Poe: Poe digs these two; Finn’s reactions to going back; Rey grappling with how she left but at the same time she’s got people around and she likes them, wants more of this.

At some point, Rey - who’s been trying to get ANY and all intel on her parents or family who might just not know where she is, corners Kylo with Finn, Poe, and BB-8’s help. It’s honestly distressing to her that he has all these things and he just...left. He left family. Just...how could he?

He doesn’t blow them off, instead sits down and is visibly pushing himself to speak. “My family...is a lot. My uncle’s a galaxy renowned Jedi, the Jedi, the man who killed the Emperor and reforged a millennia old Order. Mom’s been an outstanding politician since she was a teenager, the Rebel leader, last Princess of Alderaan, the woman who built up the new Republic and kept it together though sheer willpower. Oh yeah, AND a Jedi, too. Dad’s a war hero, and while the criminal underworld sometimes says different, he’s got the rep of some amazing criminal mastermind with a heart of gold. My grandfather was Anakin Skywalker, one of the last great Jedi, General, hero of the Clone Wars - and Darth Vader, everyone’s worst nightmare.” He looks at Rey and Finn. “You two are at the opposite end of things. You’re figuring yourselves out from the ground up. Nobody’s shoulders to stand on, and hell, that’s hard. I get it.

“But for me…. My family – the names, the history – it all has such weight to it. All this legacy. I’m not anything like any of them, and I’ll never have the skills or power that any one of them do. Hell, what’s even left for me to be good at?” Poe opens his mouth, it’s possibly an old debate between them. Kylo waves it off. “I know, I know. ‘Find something. Make something.’” He makes a face at Poe, who makes one back. He turns back to Rey and Finn. “You’ve never had anyone’s shoulders to stand on. I’ve never been Ben Organa and not in several very large shadows. I didn’t know how else to find myself, and no, I still don’t know who that is, sorry.”

Finn makes a face. “So, what, we all ought to just give up because someone’s already been the best at things?”

“Hell no. That’s my problem, not yours. Besides, you’re not in those shadows. If you want to pick up that legacy, if you’re willing and able to shoulder that burden, more power to you. It’s not for me, though. Be Jedi, be smugglers, be heroes.” Grins at Poe. “Be the best damn pilots in the galaxy. Whatever.” He pauses and smirks. “Probably not the villains, though. Galaxy’s got enough of those.”

Leia leads the rescue team, there needs to be serious callbacks to RotJ and her saving Han then. The First Order is surprised at being attacked directly, but rallies, lots of fighting, Resistance doing well.

Phasma leads a mixed group of “specialty troopers” which encounters Finn, Rey, Kylo, and...danggit, probably not Poe. I want to include Poe, but he’s probably air support. During the flight, when the Resistance is getting the clear upper hand, Phasma motions to the specialists, who all pull lightsabers. It’s not a total flip to the Order’s advantage, but they’re using the Force and suddenly Finn and Rey are having to tap into powers they’ve only experimented with, and meanwhile everyone’s playing keepaway. Finn probably has Luke’s old lightsaber, Rey is ALWAYS dangerous. Eventually Phasma pulls out a lightsaber and does one of those scary Force throws so it’s spinny glowy blade of DOOM heading right towards the center of the normal Resistance troops, away from a very busy Rey and Finn who don’t even see it -

And Kylo reaches out and Force pulls it to himself, swings it around, and makes a face. “I hate these things.” (It shows. He’s adequate with it, but Phasma has another lightsaber and is kicking his ass. This should also be the first time he EVER shows any hint of being Force sensitive, and that includes he should never be pulling some Han Solo bullseye shots without looking shenanigans.)

Han and Chewie’s rescue party is fighting their way out, and then things cut to an officer running into central HQ, telling the two cloaked figures that no really, they need to evacuate, NOW, there’s too great a likelihood that the whole place is going to come down.

Head-Honcho-Cloaked-Figure [who I now desperately want to call Head Honcho inna Poncho, but I shall try to refrain] turns to Casual-slouchy-stance-cloaked-figure. “I think it’s time to reveal the Second Order, don’t you?”

The second figure shrugs, like it’s no big deal to them, and pulls out a datapad to punch in some things. “Signal sent.”

And across the battlefield, Resistance fighters start to turn. A bunch of them are using stun blasts, but in the air there’s no such mercies. I keep playing with the notion that Holdo’s ship just up and leaves the system (and let’s face it, with the potential for an Ackbar who’s swapped sides cackling “It’s a trap!” like “and you fools have fallen into it!” appeals, then sure, him too.) Paige, wherever she is, is also one of the turncoats. And down in that messy cluster with Finn and Rey, Kylo Ren pauses, then turns and strikes down several of the Resistance fighters he just saved.

At this point, people decide it is LEAVING TIME. Rey and Finn are presumably Most Distraught, there’s some kind of retreating fight between them and Ren-and-Phasma-and-her-troopers.

It’s not quite a rout. Not quite. There’s a lot of blood spilt on the ships they retreat onto, though. People just turned, for no reason anyone could figure. (Later, someone analyzes comm traffic, and finds another encrypted signal they can’t interpret.)

Our Heroes are Not Happy, for all that ok, they achieved some pretty significant mission goals. By the time they get back to base, everyone’s caught up with everyone else. Losses - in both senses - were significant. Finn took a nasty blow to the back, but given time he should be ok. Whether that means back to functioning as before, or he now needs some kind of mobility device AND THAT IS NOT SOME HUGE TRAGEDY, I leave up to the viewer. (In the latter case, damn well ought to later on show a number of Resistance members in similar circumstances, because representation and let’s face it, should be happening ANYWAYS regardless.)

They all get back to base to find that during the time they were away, a number of folks did the turncoat thing, but thankfully nothing too important blew up. Also, Luke finally got back from his mission. He greets the crew, and introduces them to what he went to fetch: a new medic named Kix, who had been working with some space pirates. (LET DANIEL LOGAN PLAY CLONES, DAMMIT.) They don’t know why things went strange, but they might have a few ideas.

General notes because I’ve reached the end of my patience with this plunnie, in no particular order:

I cannot emphasize enough that Kylo Ren is not, and NEVER is, the main villain here. He’s on par at MOST with Phasma, as we saw her in canon Episode 7 and 8. Quite possibly less.

It may or may not be relevant, but Rose and Paige were never sent out with the primary mission to babysit him (the man is THIRTY, for the love of GODS). He was honestly just a useful cover for them to travel around a lot, make contacts, and courier stuff. (He thought they kept making deals on the side, whatevs, not his problem.)

The person in charge of the First Order was once a Jedi (probably a padawan?) who escaped the purge, gave in to the dark side, and decided fuck the Empire and the Emperor, and what they did to us - AND fuck the Republic, too! (And that’s why they have the whole “burn down the past” attitude.)

There’s technically three “Orders”: the First order is the public face, the stormtroopers and the battleships. The Second Order is the hidden agents, some actually turned, but many with control chips like what was used on the clones. The Third Order is a group of Dark Force users, building their bullshit upon old sith books and those Jedi books they’ve decided to repurpose (and that way you can tie in the books of ancient Jedi Bullshit that were almost burned in canon).

Hux is in charge of First Order, Phasma the Third, DJ in charge of Second - he’s the reason there keep being encrypted stuff the Resistance can’t read. They go looking for someone who can slice into this stuff, and naturally this sketchy as hell guy has a reputation for being able to crack these things. No one really quite twigs to him being the likely culprit as to creating them. Or at least, that opinion gets drowned out somehow.

Finn was being groomed to be part of the Third Order. He did not realize this.

Kix helps suss out the chips and ways to try to deal with them.

Without much useful detail, my brain supplied Episode 8: The Fall of the Republic; and Episode 9: The Resilience of Hope. Make of that what you will?

I think this would mean 8 would be about the chips, while across the galaxy assorted sleeper agents would be taking out relevant political targets, and causing general unrest to take down the Republic. It should be about the small victories, not the large ones - this person rescued here, that life skill learned over there - even as the First Order keeps making successful powergrabs.

9 would be more about finding roots. Lando - who’s been spying within the Order, finally surfaces with intel (what intel is a very good question I do not have an answer to). I get the feeling Kylo would die somewhere in here - if so, it absolutely should not be the pivot point of either the battle OR the war, no more than Paige’s death was in canon. (Meanwhile, it’d be nice if Paige could be saved.)

No, the person behind everything is not connected to “something greater,” they remain a random padawan from the old Jedi who managed to survive.

I think that’s all I’ve got, tagging @dragonhoardsbookz for their interest, and many thanks to @dharmaavocado for egging me on and being a kind voice of reason. <3

#star wars #well this ended up messy #whoops #stupid brain giving out halfway through #sequel trilogy #sequels critical #fic ideas #plunnie for adoption #though by plunnie i mean a bit of a monster #it is frustrating how quickly i reach 'fuck it' levels of impatience #spoilers

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