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samarecharm · 15 days

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geniunely not trying to put words in ur mouth im geniunely asking: what do you actually like about persona 5? from all ur rants im just wondering why you didnt drop the game bc it seems (again, im not trying to put words in ur mouth) that it simply not for you? i geniunely have not felt any of the issues you bring up outside of the writing ones and i cannot tell if i'm just easily pleased and not good at discerning what a good game is or we simply have dif things we enjoy in a video game. i hate getting tone across text but im asking out of geniune curiosity im not trying to attack your opinion (;-;)

Nah, i dont feel like ur attacking me, and I hope u dont feel the same when u see my complaints! Lmao. In my defense, I am replaying the game for the first time after completing my first file back in 2020, so alot of the faults i kinda shrugged off in my first playthrough are now glaringly in my face now that I no longer have the confusion and interest in learning the main story to keep me occupied. The game is clunky all the way through, and at some times, even frustratingly so.

But despite that, i do like this game. Alot! Its probably one of my top games ever if im being honest!

This ended up way longer than I intended, so im putting it under a readmore to keep the post short on dashboards

If i had to describe what I liked about the game in the simplest way imaginable…I think I would say, I like how the game makes me feel :) I like the music. I like the vibe. I like the immersion from city to city, and I like the premise! I like the characters and I like the connections you make with these characters! As im replaying this game, i am most excited to see Akira and his comments about the world :) i like hearing everyones voices, I like their little interactions in Mementos, and I like seeing them fight!

P5 is the first game I played in the series; its the game that introduced me to SMT in the first place! And it (smt) is a series that my longtime best friend LOVES and never thought hed be able to share with me! It is a game i keep very near to my heart; it has influenced me in ways i did not think would happen in the short couple of years since i first finished it. It genuinely keeps me awake some nights thinking about the world this game has created, and I think that is a testament to the impact its had, be it good or bad.

The joke about wishing theyd make a persona game that was Good is that despite all of its numerous flaws, the games manage to snatch your attention and pull you in anyway. Imagine if they made a game that had all of those things that i mentioned I loved, but done Right and executed Properly?? Where I got to have a story that made sense and didnt need to be spoonfed to me (in like an HOUR of dialogue and scenes; an HOUR!), and characters that talked and bonded beyond the tiny snippets of interaction theyre allowed to have in mementos? Combat that let me use PERSONAS i liked instead of BUILDS that stop me from getting instakilled throughout the entirety of the endgame, and a Persona building mechanic that didnt feel like I was shooting in the dark looking for possible fusions that end up not even being useful in the endgame.

Ive mentioned it before, but I complain so much bc I have seen what a good p5 game looks like, and its Strikers almost to a T. Combat is still your typical warriors-esque style combat, but it is at least different from the turn based strategy of the main game. Characters talk to each other freely, they hang out and comfort each other in a way that feels more connected that the base game. Strikers implements the ability to see ALL possible fusions with ALL registered personas, not just the ones in your Stock, so you can fuse easily without having yo consult a guide. The story feels like it makes SENSE with antagonists that feel morally grey and sympathetic. Genuinely, alot of the complaints for p5 I had were almost immediately rectified in this game.

But please also know that the praises I sing for this game is only bc of the groundwork laid by p5 and the world it created. Thats what I like about this game, that it had such a captivating premise and cast of characters, that a DIFFERENT company was able to hit the ground running with them. P5 had alot happening in that game, but i think what it had most was potential. The effort put into this game is astronomical, and the possible connections you can outright MISS if u arent paying attention was worth the money and time to implement; even if it meant that it could be considered a waste of resources to higher ups.

Books and games and part time jobs???!! Silly little cutscenes that add nothing to the game PLOTwise, but define and flesh out the personality of your protagonist. There was alot of love put into this game, and its evident by the fact that we have NOT seen a new persona game released; they bank on existing titles bc they are unwilling to make a game like this from scratch again. They dont want to ‘waste’ resources on good voice acting and a complex, overarching story; they dont want to waste money on scenes a player may never see, on routes a player may never get to experience. Making a game that gives u even the slightest bit of freedom means more money in programming and detailing that freedom. This has been an issue for a WHILE, and its a miracle that the gaming landscape had space for a colossal title like p5!

I complain bc I want better, and I do not think that is inherently at odds with my love of this game. In b4 im told to get good; ive played on hard and tested out merciless (its NOT fun, im making godbuilds again and its boring 😞). Its not the most accessible turnbased rpg; theres no colorblind modes, and the affinity system is convoluted and overwhelming. Combo moves are hard to keep track of and it can be incredibly frustrating to see your turns being skipped or seeing characters take extreme technical damage without understanding WHY it happened. The fact that they KNEW the game was desperate for qol improvements by the time royal came out, and instead of updating the base game to have those improvements too, they just pushed the royal edition out for people to play instead. It sucks! Customers and fans deserve better than being forced to shell out money for a game they already played !

As the gaming climate gets more and more hostile and unbearable, I think it is good to look at your games critically, and understand why products come out subpar. Persona 5 is a fun game that has a nice cast and an interesting premise, but it is ultimately tied down by its refusal to build on existing building blocks regarding its combat, and it insists on having insulting and downright out of character dialogue and scenes to appease the audience its designed to be targeted to. It is easy to forget sometimes that queer ppl are infact NOT the prime target of these games, its cishet gamer bros from aged 16 to 40 who will laugh at homophobic comments, who drool over a 16 yr old girl with a 16 yr old mindset and a grown womans body, who need to be placated with constant sexual comments to deal with a convoluted story that will inevitably make zero sense until its laid out for you before the literal end of the game.

Its bad. Its good. Its so shallow and its unbelievable that they thought having the plot twist make ZERO sense until they showed CUTSCENES of YOUR character discussing Goro and his connections to the metaverse for endgame SHOCK VALUE was more important than just having your team be smart and piece it together over time. Its shit. Its literally amazing. It let you FUCK your teacher ??????????????what the FUCK. They also let me shoot a god in the face w the best looking ult persona in the world so i can ignore that shit. And ultimately that is how i got through the game. Lol.

#chattin #answered #i have mentioned it before but i did NOT romance anyone #u know why? bc i literally didnt know it existed #i maxed out ann and the game was like ‘hey. this next decision is important’#and i was like. huh. u know what. i have not looked up a guide until now. thats scary. i dont want to lose a confidant…#and learned that.#so uh. i really DID go through the game bot realizing i could date anyone. even the adults.#anyway. this was alot. and i tried to keep out alot of my other complaints #bc i have so many. but they are like. either nitpicky things or things that are issues in lots of games too #like the models suck in this game but i can look past that. graphics are always bottom on the list of complaints #and i do like the little animations!! i like akiras little tics #and i like seeing personas do their casting animations; shiki ouji and nekomata are my faves #i distinctly remember that being a thing i wished to see more of.#bc i liked thinking of what joker would look like fighting for Real #and then i remembered him being in smash so i was like COOL. ill look at those #and then i got STRIKERS and it was exactly what I wanted #i think #the game is like.#its bad. but in ways that i wouldnt call another game bad #like back 4 blood is BAD bad. its awful. the gameplay is bad. the story was shit. and the servers shut down within a year or two of launch #risk of rain 2 is bad in the way that it continuously obscures and withholds information to the player. its tedious and frustrating #but unlike b4b i LIKE ror2 and will continue to enjoy it.#bc the gameplay loop FEELS satisfying #and ultimately thats how i feel about p5 #for all of its faults; its fun. it has a gameplay loop that is consistent and fun when u get the hang of it #im playing on hard again since merciless is just me making the right instakill builds while i pick up my team over and over again #and theres still a challenge in having the endgame weapons and armor #its satisfying! and i think its satisfying bc I was given the luck of having this be my introduction into the series #maybe i would have a better opinion on the game if i came from p4. or maybe not! who knows !

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starsandthorn · 11 months

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As anyone who has ever listened to me talk about Lightning Gods for 2 seconds knows, I personally am not too fond of the Thunder Legion backstory we got from it. Partially because I am a childhood friends Thunder Legion truther, but mostly because I didn’t agree with the characterization choice that had them decide to follow Laxus after…that.

But I understand why it is the way it is, and more than that, I can see now that it does a fairly decent job at using what little space and time there was available to tie into the main focus of the story of Lightning Gods. Namely, Laxus’s and the Thunder Legion’s views on strength, the trust that all of them have in each other, and how that manifests in different ways.

Let’s begin with an overview on the Thunder Legion’s obsession with strength and duty, where it came from, and how it has changed forms over time.

The backstory for the Thunder Legion proposed in Lightning Gods is this:

Freed, Bickslow, and Evergreen team up to take on a job, only to find when they get there that Laxus has already finished it on a whim. They exchange some harsh words, and not long after they descend into a fight. Laxus beats them easily, and the three of them are awed and frightened by his strength and power.

Laxus, meanwhile, surprises them by complimenting them […sort of] on being the strongest guild members he’s seen in a long time, in giving him a good fight.

This event is what inspires the three of them decide to band together to form the Thunder Legion—a team dedicated to watching Laxus’s back. It is also the event that sets up their mentality further down the line: physical and magic strength are the most desirable traits one can have, and by continuing to be strong and interesting, they are allowed to stand by Laxus’s side.

Cut to years later, when the most obvious culmination of the Thunder Legion’s obsession with strength takes place: the Battle of Fairy Tail.

The entire point of the game is to weed out the weak from the strong, to create a stronger guild for Laxus to inherit. On his orders, the Thunder Legion are utterly merciless to anyone they deem weaker than themselves.

At first, this seems like purely blind loyalty, but as time goes on, we get a glimpse that it might be more than that. Specifically, right after Evergreen’s loss, we see that the standing the Thunder Legion has with Laxus isn’t a whole lot more solid than the rest of the guild, right now.

The moment Evergreen is beaten by Erza, Laxus re-categorizes her in his mind from strong to weak, and is ready to discard her, saying that he doesn’t need her in his Fairy Tail.

Freed expresses that he or Bickslow should have gone instead—not that Evergreen is weak, not that they don’t need her, but that Erza is simply too strong, and they should have sent someone better suited to counter her.

He then tells Laxus that the game is over, the battle lost, and Laxus tells him that unless he is willing to do exactly as he says with no hesitation, Laxus doesn’t need him in his guild either.

After this exchange, we now know that the Thunder Legion are only standing beside Laxus because they are strong. If they are weak, if they falter in their duties, they will be abandoned, discarded, and replaced.

The three of them are beaten, the game is lost, and Laxus is exiled. They slowly begin to settle back into the guild, to reconnect and mend bridges. But that obsession with strength and duty that the Thunder Legion has cultivated has not completely gone away—merely changed forms.

After all, few of their guild mates can stop themselves from commenting on how ridiculously strongthe Thunder Legion are. Many of them saw their magical strength firsthand, so the three of them are desperate to prove that their abilities can be put to good use.

When it comes to fighting strength, their mindset is one of protecting their guild mates no matter the personal cost. For Freed and Bickslow, we tend to see this manifest outwardly, as continually attempting to sacrifice themselves for their loved ones. For Evergreen, we see this manifest more as an internal struggle, as blaming herself for not being strong enough, and thinking that her lack of ability is what causes others to be hurt.

When Freed is selected to take place in the S-Class trials, with Bickslow as his partner, the two of them are paired up against Lucy and Cana. They proceed to throw the fight in the girls’ favor, allowing them to move forward. Freed says he owes it to the two of them specifically, after what happened in the Battle of Fairy Tail.

Later, when Evergreen and Elfman are targeted by Rustyrose and defeated by him, Evergreen blames herself for not being strong enough, and says that if it weren’t for her, if Elfman had picked a different partner, he may have been able to succeed.

In the Key of the Starry Sky arc, Bickslow throws himself in the way of an attack to save Wendy, and even insists that she should abandon him and save herself—abandoning a comrade who is nothing more than dead weight is still a viable strategy in his eyes.

“Sometimes you gotta have the courage to leave your friends behind too!”

However, unlike Laxus [who I’ll talk about later], the Thunder Legion largely understands that there are different types of strength. Laxus judged himself and others using solely fighting strength as a metric, but the guild as a whole requires a more diverse skill set to deal with a range of day-to-day issues, which the Thunder Legion commit to their comrades with just as much enthusiasm.

Freed’s mission with Wendy is a good example of this. The Master—and Cana, of all people, who Freed feels he has a personal debt to—entrusts not only Wendy’s safety to him, but also her growth and development as a mage. He follows the rules set by them to the utmost of his abilities, even having a minor crisis when his two duties conflict, and he doesn’t know which course of action is the right one to take.

When there is a clear course of action, though, he’s quick to take it, utilizing his runes and his blade for all manner of things that have nothing to do with fighting.

At one point during the journey, Happy comments:

“That’s the Thunder Legion for you! Always there in a time of need!”

It’s clear that by this point, they have already established a reputation for being incredibly reliable and dependable, despite the fact that this is quite soon after the Battle of Fairy Tail, and the three of them rarely spent time in the guild hall beforehand.

These feelings of needing to be strong and useful so people keep them around linger on even past Fairy Tail’s disbanding, into Lightning Gods. The three of them are incredibly eager to be helpful to Laxus.

Evergreen reinforces this when they step up to destroy the Vesper Blockade Mirror for the first time:

“Let’s show them why you keep us around.”

She says this in tandem with Bickslow, who says Laxus won’t enjoy destroying an object. The three of them step forward to do work that, they assume, Laxus would find tedious or boring.

Not long after they figure out how to destroy the mirror, the priestess Weyse shows her true colors as a Zeref fanatic, and takes on the powers of the demon God of Nightfall.

The God of Nightfall is, quote:

“…a type of magic that shows people illusions of the doubts and fears…and traumas…they carry deep inside.”

To torment the Thunder Legion in the illusion, Weyse begins with this:

“Oh, you guys! As if he could rely on you! You call yourselves his bodyguards, but at the slightest threat you just bleat out for him. No wonder he gets hurt worst of all.”

This doesn’t seem to affect them at all, as all three’s responses are rather unimpressed.

“Yeesh. What terrible lines.” “I guess she’s trying to rattle us.”

This showcases their understanding of who Laxus is as a person. They’ve followed him for years now, so they’re well aware of what he’s capable of, and more importantly, what he’s like, and what he tends to do.

The Thunder Legion is incredibly confident in Laxus. They trust him more than perhaps anyone else, and want more than anything else to protect him and keep him safe.

However, they are also well aware that they cannot control his actions. Especially after the stunt he pulled just before Tartaros. He gets hurt worst of all because he tends to insist on doing things on his own, whether it’s to prove himself, to enjoy a fight more, or because he wants to keep everyone safe. When the people he cares about are in danger, he jumps in to help, and sometimes pushes himself to the point of self-destruction. This is a trait that many mages in Fairy Tail share, and the Thunder Legion understands this.

But they trust him, and they trust him to know his limits.

When he stops them from interfering in his fight against Maiden Quartet, they listen. Their trust manifests as standing back while Laxus fights and waiting for a cue, or helping to mitigate the damage his fight causes on their surroundings. Laxus knows that all he needs to do is ask for help, or offer an invitation, and the Thunder Legion will be right there beside him.

Freed knows this, and he rebuts Weyse like so:

“We trust each other. If Laxus is fighting on the front lines, we’ve only got to run in and support him!”

Of course, Weyse twists his words around and hits them where it hurts:

“So what you’re saying is, he steps up to fight because you’re too weak to do it yourselves.” “You’re his bodyguards, aren’t you? Right? But something terrible is bound to happen to your precious Laxus, the way you guard him.”

Laxus fights because they can’t. Because they’re incapable of it. The Thunder Legion is a burden to him, an inconvenience, and holding him back from his true potential. He doesn’t need them, and he knows it; soon enough, they will stop being useful, and Laxus will leave them behind.

That’s what hurts them, that’s what spurs them to fight and protect the illusion of Laxus with everything they have—not just the concept of being weak, but the idea of being unneeded and abandoned by the person they care for the most.

“Laxus always steps up to fight…because we’re so weak!” “Even though we go around callin’ ourselves his bodyguards!!” “We’re just holding Laxus back!”

Unbeknownst to the Thunder Legion, though, Laxus has been going through his own development during Lightning Gods—namely, discovering just what kind of strength he can bring to his family in order to make them feel safe and protected.

When Laxus and the Thunder Legion join Blue Pegasus, they are confronted with a very different guild experience, in terms of jobs and the people around them. Being a Blue Pegasus member requires a different set of skills and strengths than Fairy Tail members are used to, and Laxus specifically has a difficult time adjusting. But as he’s floundering, he can see the Thunder Legion fitting in with the guild and taking to their tasks with ease.

“I don’t know…but you three are doing great.” “But I just recall how…Fairy Tail was full of people who’d understand me, even just through our fists and fights.”

This is played somewhat for comedy, as the Thunder Legion find Laxus’s awkwardness endearing. But Laxus is genuinely having a hard time wrapping his head around the way the guild operates and adjusting to it. More than that, he’s utterly baffled by the idea that someone like Ichiya could be so respected and adored when he is, compared to Laxus and the Thunder Legion, not all that strong or powerful.

He mentions that they shouldn’t go to assist him—since the others respect him so much, he assumes Ichiya must be strong enough to save himself:

“But he’s actually super powerful despite how he acts, right? So just wait for him to come back on his own.”

What others might see as abandonment is Laxus’s idea of trust—putting faith in another person’s ability to handle themselves, and not insulting their strength by rushing in to rescue them.

But the members of Blue Pegasus quickly correct him, bringing up the many weaknesses that Ichiya has that make him vulnerable. Laxus wonders if there’s anything good about him at all, and how someone with so many weaknesses—that are apparently common knowledge—could be so idolized by everyone around them.

Despite his overall reluctance to engage with the situation, Laxus goes to rescue Ichiya, on the basis that they’re from the same guild, and anyone who messes with guild members is an enemy—not because he looks up to Ichiya, something he quite vehemently denies.

In the process of rescuing him, though, Ichiya himself takes a blow from Laxus meant for his captor, and tells Laxus not to fight, “out of respect for his gorgeous face”. Laxus takes this as an insult.

“Is this a joke?! Huh?! We came here to rescue you, because you’d been kidnapped. And now this? Was this some game to you? And you want me to respect your face? You think you can mess with me and I’m just gonna take it?”

In his mind, if Ichiya is so respected, he must have been strong enough to escape this entire time, and waited until the most inopportune moment to do so. He interfered with the rescue attempt, made light of Laxus’s attempt to help, and wasted his time.

However, Ichiya replies:

“This was no game. And no one is messing with you. Thank you for coming to my rescue.” “I honestly didn’t think you four would be the first ones here. Fighting on a joyous day like this…would hardly be the classy thing to do! Let’s go home and open up some champagne.”

Laxus seems surprised by this, and remains in thoughtful silence for a long while, even all the way back to the guild. Ichiya approaches him, and Laxus finally admits:

“So, look. I don’t get you at all. You don’t stand out as some powerful dude…but look how much they all worship you.”

Ichiya responds that it’s because he’s good-looking, much to the irritation of Laxus. However, the Trimen speak up once Ichiya leaves, saying that’s his true strength. The Thunder Legion take the word strength to mean the same kind of power they see in Laxus; an insurmountable might that puts one above other people. Hibiki corrects them:

“He may seem unreliable to you. But…when the moment calls for it, he’ll even use his body to defuse a crisis, even without magic…and isn’t that another kind of strength? That’s our Ichiya. We can feel safe with him.”

It’s not about physical or magical strength. It’s his strength of character that the members of Blue Pegasus are drawn to; they trust that he is the type of person to do everything in his power to keep conflict from breaking out, even if it means bringing harm to something he prides himself on quite highly.

This sticks with Laxus.

When he and the Thunder Legion head out to the village of Rugosa for the request put forth by the priestess Weyse, Laxus wonders to himself just what sort of strength he brings to his family.

After Weyse begs them to help, and speaks rather tearfully about not wanting to lose her home, Laxus is immediately swayed to get serious about her cause. He makes an effort to destroy the Vesper Blockade Mirror, and goes to great lengths to defeat Nasser, whom Laxus believes is trying to destroy his own home—something that Laxus takes very personally, because he [mistakenly] sees his past self in Nasser.

“So your mission is more important than your home? That thought process…makes my blood boil!!”

Nasser asks him why he’s risking his life for this. Says it seems foolish, since this is just another quest for him. Laxus flashes back to the Battle of Fairy Tail.

“I’ve tried to destroy my own family…my guild…before. I thought I was doing it for the guild’s own good. But now I see that was a stupid, immature idea. And I’m pretty sure you’re gonna regret this, too!”

After Nasser’s defeat, the Thunder Legion destroy the Vesper Blockade Mirror, just as Laxus trusted them to do. And the demon God of Nightfall’s true identity is revealed. Nasser shares his side of the story and laments his inexperience, stating that despite being seen by the villagers as an outsider, Rugosa village is his only true home.

Laxus is immediately swayed to his cause, and vows to destroy the God of Nightfall. Nasser reprimands him, saying that it’s too dangerous, but Laxus insists—

“But if we do nothing, your home is gonna get destroyed.” “Look, no apology is ever gonna be enough for what happened. So let me protect your village. I have to…!!”

Nasser relents, and asks for his assistance in defending his home. But not before telling him:

“You lose sight of all around you the moment something important to you is involved, like one’s home or guild.” “Viewed in another light, I suppose some might call you stubbornly honest.”

The two of them rush back to the village to confront the God of Nightfall. Laxus goes to destroy it, but is blocked by the Thunder Legion’s attacks. Weyse reveals that the three of them see Laxus as the God of Nightfall and vice versa—this is quickly reinforced by their words, shouting that they’ll protect Laxus no matter what as they’re attacking him.

Then, of course—Laxus hears what they think. That they’re too weak to stand beside him, they’re holding him back, they can’t even do an adequate job of protecting him.

After snapping them out of the spell with his magic, Laxus tells them exactly how he feels, how he said he felt even in the midst of his fight with Nasser: he trusts them.

“Don’t be stupid, Thunder Legion!” “It’s only because I can trust you to have my back…that I can run forward to fight!”

He doesn’t say, you’re strong enough to stand beside me.

Instead, he tells them, I am only this strong because you’re here. Because you have my back. I could not have done any of this without you. I have faith in your abilities. I can trust you.

To have his back, to look out for him, and more than that, to understand him, when it seems like no one else can.

The three of them gather themselves, and step up to watch Laxus’s back, to assist him in fighting the God of Nightfall.

“It’s alright. The three of us…we will not falter!!” “Strength…weakness…the form it takes doesn’t matter. The desire to protect the people we care about is still the same.”

The God of Nightfall is defeated. Nasser returns to the village, having lost his magical power. The Thunder Legion lament this loss, saying that losing such strength seems like a waste, but Laxus seems to understand—it was worth it, if it means Nasser gets to return to his home.

The four of them leave Rugosa village, talking about Weyse’s betrayal and how impressive Laxus was during their fight. And, finally, they tell him what it is that he wants to hear:

“But you confirmed something for us.” “Thanks to you…we can rely on you and feel safe.”

His dedication to doing what’s right, to protecting other people’s homes and family, led him back to the village when he could have easily left everyone to wait for the Council instead. His strength and quick thinking saved the Thunder Legion from the God of Nightfall’s spell. His stubborn honesty snapped them out of their fear of failing him, of being too weak, of being left behind.

At last, Laxus says that he thinks he’s figured out a little bit about the strength that makes Ichiya so adored.

#fairy tail #is this coherent? idk. i've reread it a million times so i can't tell. anyway. the thunder legion. explodes #also today/tomorrow is apparently the 4-year anniversary of everythunderlegion so. it seemed like an appropriate time to post this #yknow. years after i originally drafted this analysis and when fairy tail is no longer relevant. <3 #they just make me so. [shakes them]#the idea that the thunder legion have always known different types of strength are important and it takes laxus so long to catch up #like AUGH. boft being crafted in such a way as to inspire infighting. so any real threat of resistance falls apart before it forms #while the thunder legion spend the entire arc at their strongest because they're working together..................#forever thinking about bickslow using freed's runes to finish the fight with gray like THAT. THAT. they know teamwork is important #they know playing off of each other's strengths is important. they know they can make up for each other's weaknesses #and freed not commenting on ever being weak when she's defeated [rips and tears] HE WANTED TO KEEP HER IN THE GAME #because finding out which players are individually strong is less important than keeping all of your own players IN the game!!!!!#sorry i'm reliving my thunder legion insanity. reverting to 2019 me it seems.

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