#ml season 5 salt

[motherofplatypus]

Let's be real, Chloe should've been the next Hawkmoth more than Lila, simply because Chloe has more reasons to terrorize the city.

The whole city was against her. Her parents were against her. She lost her privilege. She lost her hero status, and with the temp heroes are all back, it adds salt on her injuries. She hates both protagonists. And she's more than likely has enough savings to get herself supplies of butterflies and a hiding place, or she can just take one of Audrey's credit card.

Meanwhile, Lila's reason is just lame and petty. She hates Marinette and Ladybug (and Chat Noir as extension, but let's be real, who even cares about him at this point? Because the writers surely don't), she has the truth about Gabe that's more than likely only gonna be used in S7 finale, and...that's about it. She has no reason to terrorize the city other than to bring inconvenience for Ladybug. She couldn't care less about Adrien if it's not to hurt Mari. And she's infamous for bending reality to get everything her way no matter how big of a BS that is.

(Yes yes, i know that Lila is smarter and it would makes more sense for her to be the villain, but if her being smart means turning everyone into amoeba brain, then i reject the idea.)

I guess it's worth a shot to make Butterfly!Chloe AU fic.

#also bcs Chloe being frustrated after each failure would be funnier than Lila's #i may not a Chloe stan but my points do stand #I dont care how many names she got im calling her Lila #miraculous ladybug #miraculous #mlb #miraculous salt #mlb salt #ml salt #miraculous lila #lila rossi #lila salt #miraculous chloe #chloe bourgeois #ml season 5 spoilers #ml season 5 #ml season 5 salt #ml season 5 finale #thomas astruc salt #ml writing salt #ml writers salt

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Five Ways SentiAdrien is a Retcon

Adrien’s a sentimonster now, but he wasn’t always. Here’s a list of things that wouldn’t have happened if Adrien was a sentimonster:

Chat Blanc

Epehemeral shows us what happens in a world where Gabriel Agreste learns his sentison’s identity. Chat Blanc shows us what happens in a world where Gabriel Agreste learns his human son’s identity. If Adrien was a sentimonster in season 3, then Chat Blanc would have ended with Gabriel winning just like he did in Ephemeral. But it doesn’t because season 3 Adrien was a real boy.

Gorizilla

Nooroo: Master, you don't really think Adrien could be Cat Noir?

Gabriel: I don't know. But he's hiding something for sure. Since his bodyguard has failed to keep an eye on Adrien, there's only one way for us to uncover his secret.

Yeah, put on one of the slave collars and say, “Adrien, tell me what you’re hiding from me?” Problem solved! Except Adrien wasn’t a sentimonster yet, so Gabe had to use an akuma instead.

Felix

As of season 4, Felix and Amilie know that the Agrete’s wedding rings are amoks, so why were they so obsessed with getting their hands on them back in season 3? What were they planning to do with Adrien? Why did Amilie think that was a reasonable request? There’s no way that she’d hand over her son’s ring! Easy answer: the twins cousins weren’t sentimonster yet and the rings weren’t that special. That’s why that plot goes nowhere and why Felix’s actions don’t match his actions after they decided that the boys were sentimonsters.

Origins

Adrien keeps sneaking out of the house to go to school and Gabe just yells at him, never using the slave collars. Plausible, I guess, but still hard to buy given how controlling he is. Why wouldn’t he use one of the rings? He already doesn’t care what Adrien wants and Gabe does not get meaningfully more controlling as the show goes on (it’s part of why season 5 completely fails to make him feel worse in my book).

Miracular

Cataclysms drive Sentimonsters insane, but kill humans, so Chat Noir probably should have gone insane here. Along similar lines, the fact that akuma powers work on him like a normal human is super weird because Adrien isn’t a true human. Can he break his bones? Does he even need to transform to fight? Do all sentimonsters have the ability to use miraculous? I have questions that this show will never answer because the answers don’t exist. That would require competent, well-thought-out lore.

#ml writing salt #ml writing critical #ml season 5 salt #adrien deserves better #senti salt #I had 10 minutes to kill and wanted to write this down to stop my brain from thinking about it because it's just so dumb #such a blatant retcon #How do you fail this hard at basic lore rules? #Your character's backstories should be fully thought out before the show starts! #You don't make that up as you go #You make what happens next up as you go! #and even then you should have an end goal in mind

[nedjsmlfavs]

So Derision Broke Me…

Derision (Miraculous S5E14) made some choices that fundamentally broke Marinette’s character for me to the point where I’m having trouble motivating myself to keep writing for this fandom. I figured I’d write down my thoughts and see if that helped me get into a headspace where I can ignore this episode like I do any other writing choices I’m not fond of. If anyone has some words of wisdom, I'd love to hear them.

In Derision, we learn that Marinette has some serious trauma surrounding love. When she was 13, she confessed her love to Kim and was rewarded with a box full of spiders. This “prank” understandably left her traumatized and shaken to her core. In response to that trauma, she vowed to never confess her love to another boy. Not unless she knew everything about him.

This “prank” and several others are revealed to be the fault of Chloé. As for why she’s doing this, well, we’re never given a reason why Marinette is the target. However, we are told the motivation for Chloé’s actions. Rose blames them on the fact that Chloé was abandoned by her mother. Mylène responds to this observation by pointing out that she was also abandoned by her mother, but that didn’t turn her into a bully! Which is a fair point. People react differently to trauma and trauma doesn’t justify bad behavior or undo the effects of those bad behaviors. At the most, trauma explains why the behavior is happening. A lesson that Miraculous has given us before.

In the character Félix’s titular episode, Félix shows up and starts treating Adrien poorly. This leads to this exchange between Adrien and Plagg:

Plagg: What's up with that cousin of yours? First, he searches through your things, and then, the most unforgivable thing of all, he squashes my hunk of goat's cheese under your pillow! I'd been maturing that baby for two weeks! Do you realize? Two whole weeks! Adrien: Listen, Plagg. Félix lost his dad not so long ago, he's probably not himself. Plagg: I'm sorry, but there's just no excuse! You never touch my cheese, and yet, you just lost your mother not so long ago, right?

And, once again, this is a fair observation! The fact that Félix’s father died does not justify Felix trying to ruin Adrien’s life. All it does is explain his motivation. 

Trauma does not excuse hurting others. When trauma has negative effects on us, it’s up to us to work through those feelings either on our own or, ideally, with the help of loved ones and therapists. We are never justified in lashing out at innocents who had nothing to do with our trauma.

This brings us to the topic of Marinette. 

The fact that Marinette has trauma around romance does not justify her treatment of Adrien. Breaking into his home, trying to sabotage his relationship with Kagami, and all of her other obsessive behaviors are not okay just because she was traumatized by Kim. If Chloe and Felix are not excused by their trauma, then neither is she.

So why am I only bothered by this now?

Because, before this episode, Marinette’s behavior was very clearly a joke. It was, in my opinion, a bad joke, but it was a joke and, when it comes to writing, jokes have to be looked at differently than things that are played straight.

Miraculous relies heavily on absurdist humor. That’s why you’ve got an episode where Adrien and his teenage friends throw an unchaperoned party attended by a bunch of random adults. A thing that would be horrifying and upsetting in reality, but is fine in the show because it’s clearly played as being ridiculous and over the top. I mean, just look at this scene. Anyone taking this seriously has clearly lost the plot.

Marinette’s obsession fell under the same category. Something that would be very wrong in reality, but was obviously being played up for laughs. I was always under the impression that, without the absurdist humor, she’d be significantly toned down and that’s why I just sort of tolerated it in the show. Not my idea of a good joke, but clearly a joke so meh. I can overlook it while watching the show and, when writing her, I can be true to her character while not including this level of obsession because I don’t write crack fic.

Derision changed that. It took 4.5 seasons of questionable jokes and tried to justify them. And that? That is a terrible idea. Because there is no justification for Marinette’s behavior just like there is no justification for Chloe’s behavior in the exact same episode. What they’re doing is wrong and, at best, their trauma explains their behavior. It does not justify it.

Plus, hey, remember how Derision said Kim was a terrible person for laughing at Marinette’s trauma? Isn’t that the exact same thing that we’ve all unknowingly been doing for 4.5 seasons? Kinda makes it hard to rewatch old episodes where her crush was played for laughs, doesn’t it? I hope you’ve never laughed over Marinette’s behavior because, if you have, you’ve been making fun of her trauma and so have the writers.

And that sums up why this episode really bothers me. I either have to ignore a character’s trauma or I have to accept that her trauma has apparently made her unhinged and address it. Because if her behavior is not a bad joke, then the salters are right and Marinette is a total creep. I’m trying my hardest to choose option one, but I’m struggling.

It’s not that Marinette is the only character with questionable behavior. Adrien as Chat Noir is often written as overly persistent and obnoxious when it comes to his crush. It’s not great behavior, but it’s not a consistent characterization nor is it a major flaw. I can fix it with a quick character arc about boundaries or ignore it and (in my head) say that arc happened off screen because I have no doubt that this sort of common teenage issue could be overcome with relative ease. Because when Chat Noir is put in a situation where he could clearly violate Ladybug’s boundaries? He doesn’t. He is, ultimately, respectful. He just needs to be told that respect is more than listening to the explicit “no”.

Deep-seated trauma that leads to stalking? That’s not a minor flaw. It’s a major issue that reveals the need for psychological intervention. I’m not gonna give that to a teenager and fix it with the power of friendship and communication. Nor will I give the stalker her prize. I’m gonna keep him safe because, if Marinette has this level of romance-based trauma, then she is not mentally well enough to be a relationship with someone.

You see, I’ve had people with obsessive crushes who violated my boundaries. A loved one of mine had to get the police involved because of someone’s crush on them. Stalking and obsessive behavior is not a joke. It’s traumatizing, but even though I have that trauma, Miraculous never bothered me because of how the stalking was played as a joke.

Joke's over, though. As of Derision, we are supposed to take Marinette's behavior at face value.

So, yeah. I don’t know where I go from here. It’s been a week and I just have no desire to ever touch Marinette again. If anyone has some words of advice, I’d love to hear them. And I’m sorry, but it may be a while before anything of mine updates.

#miraculous salt #marinette salt #ml season 5 #ml derision #derision salt #derision spoilers #ml derision spoilers #ml s5 spoilers #ml writing salt #ml season 5 salt #miraculous season 5

[nobodyfamousposts]

To be fair, Adrien's 'apology' effectively amounted to Marinette comforting and reassuring HIM that oh, he's just such a *good person* that he couldn't see how bad and nasty and evil Lila was. Claiming that he was just too PURE and simply couldn't comprehend what kind of person he was dealing with. So I question how much it really 'validated Marinette's feelings' versus patting him on the back and coddling him YET AGAIN, with a hefty dose of "It's not HIS FAULT he's so sheltered and trusting!'

You're not wrong.

Sadly, honestly at this point, the bar is so low for Adrien and the writing around him that it seemed impossible that he would ever say the words "I'm sorry" in any truly meaningful way.

So a lot of us are just happy that he at any point acknowledged being wrong at all and apologized for it. That was all we wanted. That was all we've BEEN wanting. So much so that we're willing to give leeway for the sheer fact that he says it.

Unfortunately, this apology comes a good while too late to really matter and it's further invalidated by having the victim reassure him and make him feel better by framing his justification as being too nice.

The thing is, Adrien's words and apology DID validate Marinette. The problem is that the writers can't let Adrien be at fault for anything and of course make it Marinette's job to make him feel better, so they have the victim try to reassure HIM and thus undercut the validation that she deserved and the fandom was long wanting.

...then there are a couple other things to consider here:

For all that they're trying to twist his mistake into a sign of how wonderful he is, the problem is that Adrien's issue here wasn't that he was "too nice" but that he was passive. He actively prioritized the feelings of a liar and manipulator like Lila over the wellbeing of his friends.

This is evident in the other problem in that Adrien is apologizing for what he said to Marinette and NOT the fact that he hadn't acted himself in the matter. This is indicating that he had no problems with Lila lying until it bothered him and it only bothers him NOW because he's in love with Marinette and they're dating.

The OTHER problem is that Adrien is LYING.

Adrien: I shouldn't have told you to wait to act against Lila.

Stop.

Review that.

Do you see the problem here?

Because while I don't know about the French version of this scene or the scene in Chameleon, there's a major discrepancy here in the English version:

He never told Marinette to wait to act.

Adrien: Are you going to tell everyone? Marinette: 'Course I am. Lila is— Adrien: (interrupting) A liar. Yes, I know. But do you really think exposing her will make things better? If you humiliate her, she'll just be hurt more. Making a bad guy suffer has never turned them into a good guy. Lila: Ladybug and I are like two peas in a pod. Marinette: So we just stand by and let her lie? Adrien: As long as you and I both know the truth, does it really matter? Marinette: You're right, maybe it's not such a big deal.

It's been a common argument from Adrien defenders that this is the approach Adrien was taking. So in a way, it makes sense for that to be the angle the writers try to use since the fandom practically handed the excuse to them.

But at NO point in this discussion did Adrien say to take a wait and see approach. At no point does he imply that they would or even should act against Lila at a later time. At no point does he even express a belief that Lila's lies will be revealed. Because at NO point in any of his lines did he express genuine concern for anyone but Lila.

What he DID do was invalidate Marinette's feelings and dismiss her very valid concerns.

And yet his apology wasn't for that.

#ml salt #adrien salt #marinette deserves better #ml s5 #ml season 5 spoilers #ml season 5 salt #ml writers salt

[wisteriasymphony]

#miraculous writing #ml spoilers #ml season 5 salt #ml illusion #ml passion #ml pretension #adrien agreste #miraculous adrien #miraculous fanart #mlb adrien #adrien salt #mlb art

[stormiclown]

So, after watching the Season 5 finale of Miraculous Ladybug, I'm not surprised at how it ended. Adrien not being part of the finale is to be expected. Every time he's given a clue about his father's identity, he doesn't do anything with it or someone else is makes the discovery (Felix). Adrien was never shown as someone who was assertive and proactive, all he is shown to be is a pretty face that should be shielded from reality at all costs.

Marinette not telling Adrien (or anyone else for that matter) about his father's crimes doesn't bother me all that much because even if she did, she 98% wouldn't be believed. Her classmates didn't trust her when she said Lila was a liar even with her debunkable lies, so why would they believe her if she said Gabriel was Hawkmoth? The show would make Marinette look like a villain for distressing Adrien even though Gabriel (Adrien's abuser) never faces any consequences for his actions.

I just hope there isn't a season 6 because this show has been irredeemably ruined by this finale.

#ml season 5 salt #adrien salt #ml writers salt #ml salt #miraculous ladybug #what on earth is this? #ml recreation #ugh #smh 😒

[vennyvenadito]

Honestly after all of this

Adrien and Mari shouldn’t be a couple

The Love square condemned this show

Is with Starco the worst ship I have ever seen

This show wasted so much time in this ship in so many years and this is the result they give us???

So many episodes wasted in unnecessary Love square plot that could have been about interesting lore or character development but no, they decided to waste everything

The worst part is I used to like the Love square (Marichat to be specific) but now…I don’t want to see them together in anyway

It’s not cute, healthy or wholesome, is toxic in so many ways

I hate it

#miraculous ladybug #ml salt #mlb fandom #ml season 5 salt #mlb salt

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

I kind of just realized, fully realized more like

Gabriel died

The last few minutes are about 3 months after Gabriel died. Adrien lost his mom and his father in that short amount of time…

They’re gonna let him grieve or something, right? I mean, as much as I want him to spit on Gabe’s statue, he still loved his father despite all the awful shit done to him

Surely next season will have some inner conflict, or him feeling anything about his father being gone at all?

I mean, that’s up in the air, apparently, because he’s all happy smiles in the end, saying he wants to be “just like his father”, so… maybe dash my hopes against the rocks while I’m ahead

#ml salt #ml writing salt #ml writers salt #ml season 5 salt #im in a salty mood today

[gale-gentlepenguin]

I feel like it would have been more likely for marinette to believe lila's lies, especially since she feels guilty for the whole volpina thing and we know she's very forgiving (if the season 5 finale showed us anything) but maybe that's just me.

Marinette may have felt guilty… but I don’t think she would believe lies because of it. What could be is that Marinette doesn’t call her out initially, make it so that she’s afraid of jumping the gun like before. How bad can a few white lies actually be?

As for the season 5 finale, let me explain.

Because in truth Marinette did try and stop Gabriel from making the wish, she was impacted by that nightmare that akuma Gabriel gave. She didn’t want Gabriel to die by her actions, even though he was awful. She saw what she believed was a dying man driven to madness to try and bring his family back. All combining to make Marinette NOT want to finish the fight and try to make some sort of happy ending for Adrien because she loves that boy. And of course this leads to the f***ed situation.

Does she tell everyone that the villain won? Does she sacrifice the peace finally attained, does she tell Adrien that his father was a terrorist that was willing to let the world burn to revive the mother he loved so much?

Marinette was left in a position where she is forced to accept what happened and sacrifice her mental comfort for the sake of not causing the peace she fought for get torn asunder.

It really sucks, the episode still is FUCKING awful and I still stand that it is the worst finale I’ve seen in this show. But I don’t fault Marinette here because she is in character, I fault the writers and show runners that thought this was a good way to end season 5, have the bad guy gaslight Paris and emotionally blackmail a teenager to handle the repercussions of a selfish wish that he made. I pray season 6 revives him just to throw him in hell so that way we can actually have the villain pay for his crimes instead of getting redeemed.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #ml season 5 salt #ml season 5 #ml critical #I didn’t mean to get so fired up #but damn it #I HATE this finale more then I hate Reflekdoll #and that’s saying something

[starguardianniom]

Now that I think about it, at the end of season 5, at the very least 5 people on the miraculous team knows that Marinette is Ladybug. Alya, Kagami, Felix, Luka and probably Alix with the time travel stuff. Meanwhile Chat Noir still doesn't know. Somehow it annoys me to no end.

#ml season 5 spoilers #adrien agreste #ml s5 leaks #marinette dupain cheng #ml leaks #ml s5 spoilers #ml bible spoilers #ml season 5 salt

[adrienivy]

i’ve seen a lot of new discourse on the finale as it recently came out in english and i just wanted to say, i don’t agree with most of it.

while it’s undeniable gabriel agreste has done plenty of unjustifiable things, I believe that making the wish was actually the best choice given the circumstances.

when marinette showed him emilie’s recordings, gabriel realized he (and nathalie) should have followed her instructions, but it was too late to change the outcome. gabriel himself was deteriorating, and nathalie was comatose/dead. adrien would have been left without anyone (remember that this was one of emilie’s fears).

obviously, marinette couldn’t have known he was going to sacrifice HIMSELF, which is why she initially opposed the wish. she couldn’t risk him possibly sacrificing an INNOCENT life.

after she RIGHTFULLY refused to make the wish, he knew the only possible way for adrien to have an alive parental figure was for him to make the wish.

that’s why he “betrayed” marinette’s trust.

he made the wish and, as he now understood emilie never wanted to be brought back, sacrificed his life for nathalie.

that’s it. i don’t see why so many people are making a big deal out of this saying he only sacrificed himself to avoid the “consequences of his actions”

news flash: he would have died anyways! even if he didn’t make the wish, he was literally a dead man walking.

and personally i don’t think him being regarded as an hero has something to do with his wish: it’s simply a consequence of what he told marinette. (obviously it wasn’t right to burden a little girl with that responsibility, but that’s another story)

marinette probably didn’t know what to say so she made up a story about him helping her defeating monarch so that adrien wouldn’t know. and im 90% sure that this will be brought up again in the next seasons, possibly as a way to spice up things between adrien and marinette.

note: im not in any way a gabriel apologist, but im just tired of people blatantly misunderstanding the finale ! also im open to discuss my opinions with anyone who would want to! (obviously, in a respectful way, thank you)

-🌸

#ml ladybug #miraculous ladybug #ml finale spoilers #ml finale #ml salt #gabriel agreste #monarch #ladybug #ml discourse #ml season 5 salt

[motherofplatypus]

Adrien in the finale really goes: "My father sent me away to another country without my consent just to imprison me in a white torture room and deprived me of any interaction other than this foosball. I wanna be like him one day."

#idk whether i should pity him or fear him #this dude skipped 6 steps of the 5 stages of grief #or he's in constant denial #miraculous ladybug #miraculous #mlb #miraculous salt #ml salt #mlb salt #ml writers salt #adrien agreste #miraculous adrien #gabriel salt #gabriel agreste #miraculous gabriel #thomas astruc salt #miraculous finale #ml season 5 #ml season 5 salt

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Adrien is Marinette's Therapist, NOT her Boyfriend and it's Gross

Mental health struggles are no joke and, if you have those struggles, then you absolutely need a partner who will support you through them. That's why, at face value, Adrien supporting Marinette with her PTSD and anxiety is very sweet. It's what a good boyfriend should do. The problem is that Adrien is being written like her therapist, not her boyfriend.

Adrien has his own struggles with depression, loss, and paternal neglect. Yet none of these struggles are brought up once Adrien and Marinette get together. Instead, the relationship is all about her needs and struggles even though this season ends with Gabriel's take down, meaning that focusing on Adrien's issues would have made more sense from a narrative perspective. How much more powerful would the final have been if Marinette really understood Adrien, Emilie, and Gabriel's relationship?

But why do that when we can make everything about Adrienette instead? Why bother to mention Emilie when Marinette is a much better point of conflict between Adrien and Gabriel? After all, if we did that, then Adrien would have a life outside of Marinette and that would be, well, sigh, let's get into it, shall we?

In Derision, we learn that Marinette apparently doesn't have some form of anxiety or ADHD or any of the other things that people have theorized over the years. No, vanilla-Marinette is a totally relaxed, go-with-the-flow non-planner who only started planning after Chloe, Sabrina, and Kim gave her PTSD. Does this insult her character and make no sense? Yes, but let's not get into that. Let's just accept the retcon and look at the fallout of Adrien knowing that his new girlfriend has massive trauma that's mainly focused on romance and controlling situations.

The very next episode is Intuition. In it we see Marinette calling Adrien to show off her ability to do things without planning (or, at least, with less planning) and it's clear from context that this is an exercise that they're doing:

Adrien: Well... (his phone rings) Fancy that! Marinette! I like spending time with Marinette. (picks up his phone) Marinette: (on-call) Guess what I'm calling for: nothing! Can you believe it? I'm calling you randomly, totally out of the blue, for no reason at all! Adrien: So you didn't write down everything you might need to say to me based on everything I might say to you? Marinette: Not at all! Well... I did. I really tried not to, you know, but it was too hard! Anyhow, I limited myself to fourteen possible conversations, including this one! Adrien: Congratulations! Marinette: (on-call) Thank you! Adrien: And did you prepare questions for science class? Marinette: (on-call) Not-a-one! Not even for the live video conference we're doing with Max's mom on the super awesome Tsurugi space jet! I, Marinette, will improvise questions, unpredictably, without planning anything!

In the context of the show, this conversation is deeply concerning and I don't know wtf the writers think they're doing. There is no way in hell that a 14-year-old should be guiding his girlfriend through a therapy session or therapy exercise unless he has the guidance and approval of a trained mental health professional.

Seriously look at what Adrien is doing in this dialogue: Marinette tells him that she's called him without planning and he doesn't just say "that's great!" Instead, he asks if that's true, congratulates her for her mild improvement, and then prompts her to talk about another situation where she would plan things out. In other words, he's asking about the therapy homework that he's clearly given her or that they've decided on together. It's also clear that this isn't their first discussion on the topic because he's very comfortable knowing what to ask about to see if she's done her homework right.

Why was this homework chosen? Who knows! It certainly wasn't picked by someone with training! A therapist wouldn't tell you to avoid planning for a school assignment (something that we've never seen Marinette overplan before, but once again, we're ignoring the retcon). This scene would arguably be inappropriate for an established adult relationship, but a nascent teenage one? Absolutely not.

My SO and I have both done therapy and seen wildly unbalanced relationships. This conversation threw massive red flags for us on both fronts. This is not what a healthy relationship looks like. This is not a give and take. This is why you need a therapist to at least guide you through this type of situation or you will set yourself up in roles where person A is not getting their needs met because the relationship has an established dynamic where person A is the giver and person B is the taker.

This is especially true for a young relationship that's just getting its feet off of the ground. They're supposed to be in the honeymoon phase! More established relationships are better able to handle phases where one person needs more support than the other which absolutely happens and is totally normal. However, when those things happen, it's vital for the supporting partner to have their own support since they can't get it from their partner.

Miraculous denies Adrien this suport. In the very next episode, we get this:

Adrien: I've always seen Marinette acting funny in my presence. I thought that was just the way she was. I thought it was sweet. I thought it was just her charm. But now that I know it's because she loves me and she freaks out about telling me, I feel bad. Because it means that this whole time she's been uncomfortable around me, and I haven't done anything to help her. Kagami: But you didn't know. Adrien: It doesn't take away from her suffering. I just wish she could feel more at ease when she's with me. Otherwise, one day, it'll be too late and she'll give up. Kagami: What can I do to help, Adrien? Adrien: Thanks, but it's not up to you or anyone else to help. I'm the one who's gotta do something.

No! Adrien, you are not equipped to deal with this solo. Ask Kagami to help! Ask Alya to help! Ask Marinette's parents to help! There are times when it's okay to involve others in your relationship and this is one of those times! This isn't even a relationship issue! It's a mental health issue! I know we're flipping gender roles here, but it's not somehow cute or healthy just because a guy is trying to "fix" the girl for once. No one should try to take on that task. This is what therapy is for.

If therapy is not an option for financial or other reasons, then yes, sometimes you have to struggle through and loved ones can help, but in TV land? Especially aimed-at-kids TV land? Show the ideal scenario! At the very least, show a support network! And I mean actual support, not Kagami asking to help and Adrien shooting her down! Writers, you are making Gabriel's dislike of Marinette valid! You are making it so that she is dragging Adrien down! Stop doing that!

Adrien deserves love and support, too. Adrien deserves to be romanced. Adrien deserves more than a kiss and an "I love you" that he had to fight to hear! He never even gets one of the presents from Marinette's chest. She did more to woo him before they got together and it's such pathetic writing.

The fun of getting these two together is letting them do all the stuff they've always wanted to do! Let Marinette bring him macrons! Let him bring her roses! Let her enhance his wardrobe! Let him write her poems! Let them be a healthy, balanced, sickeningly-cute couple! It's fine if she's nervous at the start and takes a while to act normal, but this show takes it to a level beyond teenage jitters and it's not funny or cute. It's concerning.

All of these issues start with Derision's romance-based-PTSD retcon and it was the worst thing they could have done for the Love Square. It poisons the rest of the season and is why I just can't ship these two in canon even though I love what they could have been. They have established such a horrifically unhealthy dynamic that I can't see this ending well unless they get couple's therapy in the very near future and that's not even touching on the baggage that will come from the lies and still unresolved Ladynoir trauma.

As soon as Marinette has romance-based PTSD, she was incapable of being in a relationship until after she'd learned to manage her PTSD. (PTSD cannot be cured, btw, you just learn how to manage it and the symptoms can lessen.) The writers apparently knew that. It's why they gave her a therapist to support her as she worked through her issues and got to the point where she can say "I love you". His name is Adrien. Isn't he cute?

#ml writing salt #ml writing critical #ml season 5 salt #adrien deserves better #suffering through a rewatch of season 5 for love of my so #ml intuition #ml derision #ml perfection #marinette deserves better #I just wanted a cute romance not whatever the writers think they're doing

[nedjsmlfavs]

So my suggestion on Derision? Ignore it. Declare it bullshit in author notes. Openly mock it and declare it non-canon. It conflicts with or ruins so many episodes (rewatch animaestro) it is the obvious weak link. It was written from a place of hate and anger at some members of the audience, not one of love for the characters and the show. And so: excise it and retain your love.

It trashes so many more prople than just marinette too.

Like her parents for ignoring multiple years of bullying so bad she made up fake excuses to avoid school? This is the same Tom who went akuma because a boy broke her heart. This is the same caring and wonderful Sabine saying 'its only three more weeks then *maybe* it will be okay*

The hand of the author is just so blatant too. Your example with Mylene is one I hate on a different level, because this *is* a kids show and Mylene just told kids 'every situation is the same. Its your fault if you react differently. André the power-abusing, neglectful, pushover is *exactly* the same as Mylene's supportive, involved, father. If you as a child end up differently in these environments, you are the problem.

Ugh, yeah. So just nuke Derision and don't apologize. It doesn't respect canon, so why should your canon respect it?

Oh, yeah, Derision ruins pretty much every character who has lines in it. It's also hardly the first episode to introduce a poorly thought-out plot point or characterization. I'm normally very happy to take the Nick Fury approach to canon where I recognize the show's decision and then elect to ignore it.

The reason I'm able to do that so easily is that the writing choices I don't agree with usually just disappoint me. They don't bother me on an emotional level. And, sure, I could do deep explanations of why certain plot/character choices are terrible and should never have been made, but I prefer to express my disappointment by just writing fanfiction that does the thing that I wish that the show would've done. It's actually part of why I have so many fics featuring Nino and Alya being great friends to Adrien and Marinette. Because I don't like how the show has treated those relationship so I just say "Fine, I'll write the version that I want." The opposite of a salt fic, if you will? A writing salt, character sugar fic?

Derision hit different. It upset me on an emotional level, which is why I actually wrote up an analysis of what was bad with just one element the episode and tossed it into the ether. Doing that actually did help as have all of the responses to that post. Knowing that I'm not alone in finding this episode upsetting and poorly thought out is helping me move past it. So thank you for this message and for all the replies to that post. I'm starting to turn my emotions from sadness to drive to get back to my reverse crush canon rewrite, which was the whole reason I made the post in the first place! I want to finish that and give the characters the arcs I wish that we'd gotten in the show.

As for posts that go over why certain episodes or characterizations are bad, well, you're always welcome to ask me for my thoughts on stuff and I'll write it up, but unless something about canon deeply bothers me, I'll mostly keep my thoughts to myself and continue to channel them into fanfiction fuel.

#ask answered #ml derision #ml derision spoilers #ml salt #ml season 5 #ml season 5 salt #thank you this was very nice to read because I agree with everything you said #I just didn't want to get into the list of all the things Derision reconed and broke #I wanted to focus on the part that was really bothering me #ml writing salt

[nangbaby]

I'm confident someone else is also complaining about this right now or already mentioned this, but the possible change in the Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 ending from the leaked version...just swapped one set of issues with another. While "Gabriel sacrificing his life so that he may be with Emilie in death" would be an improvement from the "Gabriel sacrificing himself so Emilie would live" ending in the leaks, a switch like that also comes with its own issues. Aside from the fact that this makes Adrien an orphan (hasn't he suffered enough?), there's an obvious problem with having Amelie assuming guardianship over Adrien.

This means Felix is moving to Paris.

Having Felix stay in Paris is a terrible idea, because the character works by having sporadic appearances and not being accessible. He is written as "smarter" than the other characters and has possession of one of the most over-powered Miraculouses in the show. How is there going to be any credible threat to Paris now that he's clearly one of the permanent heroes?

Plus, the show has made a big deal about how dangerous it is for a person to know both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities. Luka had to leave town because of it, and it's unclear how much mini-Bunnyx knows. Felix and Kagami learning Ladybug's identity means they can't learn the latter in the near future. How is this going to work with Felix living with Adrien, or even Felix being in proximity with Adrien? Felix isn't as oblivious as Gabriel or Nathalie. He's going to know both identities within two seconds of staying in town (assuming he already hasn't figured it out).

I know, the counter is that if Felix is part of the hero crew and knows or figures out his cousin's secret, he would be a much more effective confidante and cover for Adrien than anyone else in the class. But even if you somehow nerf Argos (say, make him unable to create another sentimonster by making him semi-permanently using another one, like if by some horrible twist of fate, Kagami or Adrien's feathers were released from their objects and Argos had to "recreate" one of them...or he had to create a Sentibug of his own if Marinette somehow could no longer become Ladybug) I can't see him being around as a full-time hero and there being any challenges.

Then again, I couldn't see how Gabriel could lose with having all those Miraculouses and he definitely did.

#spoilers #ml leaks #ml spoilers #ml recreation #re-creation spoilers #ml season 5 spoilers #ml salt #miraculous salt #ml season 5 finale #ml season 5 salt #ml s5 spoilers #miraculous ladybug

[blueberry-macaron]

Do you think the recent reveal that Kagami also found out that Marinette's Ladybug was a deliberate attempt of the writers to undermine Luka (considering the fact she didn't accidentally let Monarch found out she knew despite being akumatized twice, meanwhile Luka let Monarch accidentally know despite managing to prevent himself from being fully akumatized)?

I don't know if that really undermining him or just a stupid writing inconsistency, but the Kagami thing raises so many questions.

Like... okay, let me try to explain this.

The problem with Luka was that he actively thought about how Mari and Adrien are LB and CN. Then Monarch tries to akumatize him, and Luka gives himself away because he panicks. Not because Monarch read his mind, he just made an educated guess about why Luka resists so hard. So now the question is, if Luka had let himself gotten akumatized without panicking, would've Monarch found out he knew in the first place? Exactly how much access does Monarch have to the memories and knowledge of his victims? Was this ever touched upon? Because if Kagami knew, was akumatized twice and didn't give the heroes away, it can't be that much, right?

And logically, she should've also actively thought about how Mari is LB because she was akumatized just a few minutes after overhearing Mari and Alyas conversation! Was she in the clear simply because she didn't have any big reaction to it? Because she didn't seem shocked or surprised, she just looked like as if someone told her the wheather forecast.

It's just... if Monarch can't find out secret identities via akumatization, as seen in Kagami's case, why is it such a big deal for Luka, or anyone really, to know?

If Kagami had somehow also figured out who CN is, would the outcome be different if she had the same unphased reaction to this information? Or would she have to leave as well?

I guess you could say prior to the audience knowing that Kagami knows, it made sense for everyone that Luka has to be protected in some way from akumatization, and leaving Paris would've been a way to do that. Now with Kagami knowing without any negative outcome, it just seems like it doesn't matter how much a person knows, so Luka could just keep chilling in Paris and pretend he doesn't know and Monarch would be non the wiser.

Idk maybe I'm missing something but who cares anyway, canon is dead to me

#ask #anon #ml salt #writing salt #ml spoilers #ml season 5 salt #ml season 5 spoilers