I don’t believe in BG either bc the Briana pregnancy was so messy however this whole storyline everyone has made up for Louis if it was real really confuses me? Everyone talks about how if it’s real he must be a shit dad because he didn’t pay attention to him for years but how would anyone know that?
We’re all quick to say Louis and Harry are still together and we haven’t seen them together since 2016 because everything is private and due to their closet. But it would be the same for Louis and Freddie if he was his dad, it would be private? When Louis goes MIA, we genuinely have no idea where he is or what he’s doing. If it did happen to be real, then he could be with the child in private and not going places that he knows he would be seen by fans or paparazzi? It’s not like paparazzi follow his every move anymore aswell and they haven’t for years now.
Look I’m not trying to argue, I agree about BG however I just don’t understand this argument everyone has made up if Freddie did happen to be his because it just makes us look like other idiot fans who come up with narratives to suit them.
Okay this is a perfectly understandable argument and follows really great logic, except I was here in 2016. I don’t know if you were but anyone who is here in 2015/2016 can tell you that this argument doesn’t hold up because of what was happening in 2016 and things we were informed of by Louis himself/witnessed happen in real time.
In 2016 we essentially had a live feed of where Freddie was at all points in time. He was either being papped on Tuesdays with Louis and Danielle so we could see Louis “hung out with him” or he was being live-streamed by Briana/the Clarks. When fans say “Louis only spent 1 hour with Freddie in a parking lot on his first Father’s Day” that is a verifiable fact. Louis got papped in a parking lot with the Clarks. His father’s day pic is of him holding Freddie’s hand in a car seat. The rest of the day Freddie was in videos with Brett and Tammi, and Louis was off doing OTHER SHIT.
The day of Freddie’s first birthday they posted a video of Briana and Freddie and Louis in a house that was ALREADY SOLD TO SOMEONE ELSE because Briana had moved out of the house she lived in in 2016 but we still got a video from there and then Louis posted live video of himself at a concert.
Louis (and Niall) told us in 2016 that Louis did not have overnight permission. Freddie NEVER spent the night with him as a child. Even when they flew Freddie, Briana and Ashley to the UK for Jay and the XFactor Freddie stayed with Briana the entire time barring one afternoon with the twins. The most basic parental job is being with your baby when they sleep. Louis has NEVER done that. They waited until Freddie was 5ish to ship him off to the UK for holiday which is roughly the age in America a lot of white people start allowing their kids to spend the night with non-family.
Again I completely understand what you are saying. We don’t know everything. We can’t tell what the boys are doing in their spare time. Now. In 2022. But in 2015 and 2016 this was not the case. And in hindsight we now have a pretty good idea that the times we didn’t see Louis in 2016 he was with his mom in the UK. Where Freddie could not be, verifiably, because he didn’t get a passport - which btw the Clark’s very much implied getting a passport was not something they were ever going to get for Freddie - until November 2016 as an emergency order due to Jay’s passing, that the Clarks had no idea was happening.
Let me repeat that again: a British celebrity had a child with a normal American citizen. That child did not get a passport until he was forced to travel to the UK for a dying family member, that the mother’s family had no idea had been terminally ill for 3/4s of the year. Louis did not include the Clarks or Freddie in his family plans in 2016 until he absolutely had to. That is not “good parent” behavior. He didn’t start “taking care” of Freddie until he was out of being a toddler because we can do the same tracking method in 2017.
In 2017 he spent a lot of time in England and with Eleanor. Eleanor has never met Freddie. The one time she’s been to LA since BG started she was on IG stories posting her every fucking move so we knew she was NOT WITH FREDDIE. God help me I wish they did meet because I have been BEGGING for a pic of the two of them for years because you just know it’s gonna be suffering.
That is 2 years where Louis and Freddie were Very Easily Tracked. You could see where they were and what they did and if they were together with pretty good accuracy. That’s not the case anymore but it was the case back then. And that’s why we say if this was real Louis is a shit father because he didn’t start doing anything different until Freddie was at LEAST 3 or 4.
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Izuna’s Personality - the many possibilities
Uchiha Izuna is a blank canvas of a character. He barely made an appearance in the Manga, and the anime remains true to the source material - that is to say that little is done to flesh him out.
The only addition the anime made was giving us a fight between him and Tobirama (and it was a fight on the last of their powers judging by their exhaustion). While it is a pity that we were not shown Izuna’s Mangekyō abilities (missed opportunity), the exhaustion of his is at least a logical explanation as to why he did not use it by the end of the fight.
We at least get to see that he was (apparently is how I would interpret it) skilled in swordsmanship and that he knew the Katon: Gokakkyū no Jutsu, but the rest of his abilities remains a mystery.
He remains more a plot device (Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan) than a character.
Personality wise Izuna can be very similar to his brother, the complete opposite, or something in-between.
Or an absolute sweetheart
In the databook the following information is listed:
Izuna was Madara’s equal in abilities/power. He also accomplished a “great number of military achievements” according to the above. What those accomplishments are, exactly, remains unknown. That he was important to the Uchiha clan - probably both for his power and for his personality - could be one reason why Uchiha members defected to the Senju.
Both as shown in the Manga (as a child) and also above, he held Madara in high regard. He also trusted his older brother immensely. He offered, after all, their clan’s greatest treasure to his brother; and with it his faith (and confidence) that Madara could keep the Uchiha clan safe.
What we have to work with:
Harmonious/balanced
Self-sacrificing/devoted
In the anime - as a child - he appears to soften his voice around (especially) Madara (and even Tajima) as his voice was much more…cold when addressing Tobirama (for obvious reasons, but nevertheless) it is quite the contrast to Tobirama who appears to keep his tone of voice in check around their father (and in general really), while Izuna freely lets excitement be seen and heard even. There is an innocence there that probably got lost somewhere along the way of growing up.
So he is not as emotionally repressive as Tobirama. Which could indicate that there is a closer bond between the Uchiha family than the Senju family, or at least, a greater emotional honesty. The Senju siblings had to repress their feelings (at least, that was Butsuma’s wish…a wish Tobirama followed to the extreme), while the Uchiha siblings appear as if they are given more freedom to express themselves (Izuna’s disbelief and his excitement at seeing Madara’s Sharingan). Madara remains stoic and focused during the entire encounter at the river, for obvious reasons. He did not take kindly to nearly losing his brother in front of his eyes.
Now, the “harmonious” part of Izuna’s personality, is tricky to pin down. We saw too little about him for the “show don’t tell” rule to really apply to him.
At least if we think about “harmonious” in a particular - to even stereotypical - way.
“The definition of harmonious is things that go well together, or people and things that get along well. When you get along with someone and rarely fight, that is an example of a situation where you have a harmonious relationship.” (Yourdictionary.com)
If we use the above definition the harmonious part of Izuna’s personality could simply mean that he - in general - knew how to handle people, had a soothing aura, but that the one he got along best with, was his older brother - Madara. Who knows, perhaps they rarely fought? Being so in-tune with one another?
But we still do not know how he was around his clan, around Madara, when he was older, to say for certain that they were “one heart and one mind” type of duo.
According to dictionary.com the definition of harmonious is the following:
Adjective
1 marked by agreement in feeling, attitude, or action: a harmonious group
2 forming a pleasingly consistent whole: congruous: harmonious colors
3 pleasant to the ear; tuneful; melodious
This does not really mention how a human is when described as “harmonious”, besides the first one. Which pretty much states that you are in agreement in body, spirit and emotion/feeling…which does apply to Izuna. He is shown to be consistent in his behaviour and is not wishy washy. His opinion on the Senju does not change the little we see about him. Perhaps he was blinded by hatred, but so were the rest of the characters - even if said hatred was shown in different (and in more, or less, subtle ways).
Synonyms to harmonious (thesauruses.com)
Amicable
Balanced
Congenial
Coordinated
Cordial
Peaceful
Accordant
Adapted
We are getting somewhere, but I am still not satisfied with the answers I have found. I therefore looked into “peaceful” (as such was another word that was used to describe Izuna back in the day) to see if there was a better answer to be found with that word.
Adjective, peaceful (thefreedictionary)
1. Undisturbed by strife, turmoil, or disagreement; tranquil
2. Inclined or disposed to peace; peaceable
3. Not involving violence or employing force
Hmm…the first two could be possible descriptions, the third one…well…
The words calm and composed seem to describe Izuna rather well honestly. Even as a child, as well as an adult.
It could also just be that the “harmonic” part of Izuna was meant as him being a pleasant person to be around all in all. I can see him as someone kind, someone who went above and beyond to help and keep his clan safe.
Then again, despite going this far to make sense of this particular part of Izuna’s personality - there could be a more simple reason for some things not making complete sense, and that is that Kishimoto had not planned so far ahead when he wrote down Izuna’s personality traits. Perhaps he had a different plan in mind for the Manga? Perhaps he never expected having to write out the founding of Konoha - or perhaps he had a different idea in mind before he introduced the “Indra and Ashura” dynamic, and as such he had to backtrack and make Hashirama and Madara similar to Ashura, Indra, Naruto and Sasuke?
Who knows.
The official german translation goes as follows:
“Du ähnelst…Madara’s…kleinem Bruder, Uchiha Izuna.”
The official english translation is the following:
“…You’re a lot like…Madara’s…little brother, Uchiha Izuna.”
In my “Uchiha Izuna” comparison post I mentioned that the anime - while still vague - seems to imply that Sasuke and Izuna were alike in both appearance and personality (at least they could have been).
The german translation is vague. You can interpret however you wish here. Same with the english translation and the anime - honestly - and yet the anime…is a touch more concrete in a way. Considering the context. I’m rambling now, but I feel that the anime implies a strong (to stronger) likeness to Sasuke and Izuna being alike in personality. Hashirama does not know Izuna exactly, but that smile of his almost makes it seem as if he remembered something. Perhaps Izuna being similiar to the way Sasuke was in that scene? Considering that is what he says indirectly, it could therefore mean that Izuna was blunt and very “to the point” (with the Senju, it could have been different with other clans).
It is interesting to speculate what could have been.
Here Izuna showcases quite the arrogance (which comes back to haunt him just a split second later). It appears he was - rightfully - proud of his eyes and their power.
And while it does not really state who was the stronger of the two, a particular sentence from Madara (during chapter 661) stuck out to me while going through the chapter.
“It’s your M.O to strike an opponent just when he’s convinced of victory.”
And while this can mean any which battle, it could mean that Madara was remembering Tobirama striking down Izuna in particular. This could imply that Izuna had the upper hand, and could have made it out alive, had Tobirama not caught him off guard with his “hiraishingiri” technique.
But who knows, in the Manga we only got the very end of the fight. Izuna could very well have had the upper hand for a while, until Tobirama caught him off guard.
It says a lot that Tobirama had to invent a completely new jutsu to counter Izuna and his Sharingan/Mangekyō Sharingan.
Aww, he is definitely young here. He is leaned slightly sideways, as if he is looking past Madara to look at Hashirama (most likely), while in the anime his gaze seems to be directed at Madara’s back.
I can imagine that Izuna was empathic - but his empathy was only really extended to his clan. Perhaps to an allied clan or two (if such arrangements were made), but that is not to say that he was not someone kind. I can imagine that he was…and that he would have been kinder to more clans than only the Uchiha, had circumstances been different.
They lived in times of war, after all. Kindness and empathy has no place in war. At least not to their enemies.
One can accuse Izuna for being selfish - the moment he willingly accepts his death before joining hands with the Senju. But that does not take away from his peaceloving and harmonic nature. Humans are complex, never static or “one way or the other” - one can interpret the Naruto characters in a similar way if one so wishes. Izuna probably wanted peace as much as any other Uchiha, but he saw an alliance (between Uchiha and Senju) doomed to fail.
It can be seen as Izuna being against peace, but I do not see him as someone averse to peace as a whole - he was simply wary of the Senju clan, and of Hashirama in particular.
And that is another thing that does not take away from someone being peaceful. I cannot claim that we humans get along with everyone we meet, and that would be the same for the characters in the Narutoverse were they real.
Izuna simply looked out for his brother and the clan - the way a second-in-command should.
Even if Madara had accepted the ceasefire then and there, would it truly have lead to the peace Hashirama envisioned? Madara was not particularly clear-headed and could - theoretically - have agreed to any condition, Hashirama could have made, in his distress. Which would have invoked Izuna’s ire most likely.
It would not have been an agreement on equal footing and terms. It wasn’t even when Madara finally accepted Hashirama’s agreement.
Madara wanted to believe in Hashirama and their “pipe dream” (as much as he tried to deny it) - but Izuna did not have the same faith in the Senju clan.
Suspicion and fear also reared its ugly head, and can one blame him for such? Not really.
Being wounded by your archrival, being in pain and dying, and the leader of their nemesis dares to offer an alliance in that moment? Suspicious and hypocritical.
Everyone would be at fault - in one way or another - had the situation been real. Both Senju and Uchiha are as much victims as they are perpetrators of this vicious cycle of hatred.
While this is speculation, Izuna was probably quite the strong willed person. We do not know how the wound killed him, but it - most likely - got infected and caused him a slow, agonizing death.
He probably laid dying between days to perhaps a month at most.
Looking at the background during the skirmish it appears to be summer, and when Izuna passes away it is autumn. He probably had to cling to life for at least a few weeks…I can only imagine how painful such a situation must have been to both brothers. Imagine the agony of watching your most precious person waste away, watching him slowly die, while you can do nothing to save him.
It must have chafed at Izuna’s pride as a warrior as well, dying in such a “undignified” way. Honour has always been important to the Japanese, and I wonder how many can truly empathize with their way of thinking (“bushidō”) - and that you should kill yourself before bringing “shame” to your family name/yourself.
That’s…terrifying and tragic. And yet it is also quite sound…considering how valuable a hostage could be (or a corpse or two…).
It is while Izuna laid dying (we are only shown Madara’s anger after his passing - anime only scene at that) that he offered Madara his eyes. This, at the very least, implies his devoted nature. Like Obito, he gave up their clan’s treasure (Sharingan) so that his beloved older brother could look after one thing he, Izuna, held dear.
No matter who he might have been, we know one thing for certain, and that is that Izuna was devoted to the clan, to Madara, to the very end.
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