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spencers-renaissance · 3 years

Text

you know that a boy who likes boys is a dead boy

Summary: Spencer's gay. He joins the BAU and befriends the team, but it is 2003. It's a secret he has to keep. He just didn't expect it to be this hard.

Tags: gay!spencer, coming out, hurt/comfort, insecure!spencer, misunderstandings, angst with a happy ending, dad hotch, protective!hotch, protective!derek, childhood trauma TW: one instance of explicit homophobia, but it is referenced a lot, as is Spencer's internalised homophobia at the start of this fic. A shit ton of heteronormativity but tbh that's just canon lol

Pairing: Spencer Reid/OMC, Spencer Reid & Derek Morgan, Spencer Reid & Aaron Hotchner, The BAU Team & Spencer Reid

Word Count: 6k

Masterlist // Read on AO3

Consider this my contribution to pride month 😌 I've waited so long to post it and I'm so glad I'm finally doing it because it's definitely one of my all time favourites <3 Gideon is here somewhere but just like with all my early season fics he's not really part of the plot I combined my moreid and gen taglists bc it was hard to know the audience for this, but just ignore it if you're not interested!

you know that a boy who likes boys is a dead boy, unless he keeps his mouth shut, which is what you didn’t do, because you are weak and hollow and it doesn’t matter anymore. — richard siken, a primer for the small weird loves

Spencer has only told one person in his whole life.

His mother guessed. For as long as he can remember, she’s used gender neutral pronouns when talking about his future partner, read him all the gay literature she could find, promised him that he’s perfect just the way he is.

The trouble is that Spencer only believes her until the first grade, when Ryan Sampson shoves him over in the playground and calls him gay. His mom had only ever used that term in a sweet, loving way, taking care to associate such words with positivity, as long as his dad wasn’t around to hear. When that word comes out of Ryan Sampson’s mouth, it is not said with sweetness and love; it is said with venom, and Spencer learns quickly that his mom is wrong. He is not perfect just the way he is.

And so, he keeps it a secret. When his mom notices him getting uncomfortable at the mention of future partners, she stops bringing it up, though she refuses to give up the diverse education she provides for him outside of school. His dad tells him that one day he’ll be a strapping young man and marry a nice girl in a church, and Spencer nods along. He ignores the way his stomach turns with anxiety at the thought. Ignores the screaming match his parents have that night. Ignores the fact that it started because Diana chipped in with ‘or boy’.

He’s in high school by the time he’s twelve, and the only part he’s grateful for is the absence of pressure to get a girlfriend. His dad’s out of the picture now, and Spencer tries not to let himself think that maybe if he wasn’t like this he might have stayed. Diana’s so out of it most days that she doesn’t remember what she noticed about him when he was a child, only recalling the last few years of shoving himself so far back in the closet he can hardly see the door anymore.

It feels like he’s lost his last ally.

(He hates that a small part of him feels relieved she doesn’t remember; that he almost feels assured by the fact that the last person to know who he really is has forgotten. There is only this version of Spencer Reid now. No other exists.)

He makes the mistake during his second undergraduate degree. He’s just turned eighteen but he is already a doctor and, fortunately, this alienates him from most of his peers, but someone manages to slide past his defences. Ethan Miller is twenty, in the second year of his (first) undergraduate degree in Chemical Engineering, and he’s nice. Spencer doesn’t have a lot of experience with friendship, but they get on well and Ethan makes him laugh. For the first time, he feels comfortable in the presence of anyone other than his mother.

They slip into an easy friendship: waiting for each other after class — Spencer back in the undergraduate buildings now he has his first PhD under his belt — and going out for ice cream and pizza and Thai food. Ethan goes to parties while Spencer studies, and then they reconvene to watch Doctor Who and play cards.

For almost a year, Spencer keeps his secret carefully locked up, hidden behind the mask he’s perfected after so many years. Even though he’s eighteen, nearly nineteen now, he doesn’t try and explore that side of himself. No, that’s far too risky. He doesn’t try and pretend any other way either, he just stays silent and lets people’s assumptions lie for him, but he can’t help the longing that claws up his throat when he locks eyes with a passing guy on campus. One time, he’d seen two men kiss on a bench in the city, and he’d run back to his dorm and had a panic attack. Why couldn’t he have that?

The feelings don’t stop, and he doesn’t know how to make them. He hates that he isn’t normal, but still longs for the touch of a man, the feeling of being wrapped up in strong arms, of being kissed by dry, chapped lips, and falling asleep to a heartbeat approximately 11% slower than that of a woman’s.

It’s a constant battle inside him, emotions raging, and he struggles to control it, suppress it, tame it.

He pays a sorry price.

Ethan makes him feel comfortable, and that turns out to be a detriment. He relaxes around the other boy: he tells him about growing up as a pre-teen in a high school, about how a child feels living 260 miles away from home, even about his mother’s illness.

And one day, it slips out. They’re on the beach, lying on towels as they look up at the blue sky, talking about what their futures will look like: Ethan will be a successful chemical engineer in Berlin, and Spencer will work for the FBI, profiling serial killers.

“You’ll have to marry a German girl,” he tells Ethan. “It’ll be tough to convince an American girl to move all the way to Germany as soon as you graduate.”

“Yeah, and what about you? You’ll be off fighting crime around the country, not much of a life for a family.”

“Oh, I imagine my husband will be the type to—”

“Husband?”

Spencer freezes. It shocks him as much as it shocks Ethan. He doesn’t even pay much attention to Ethan’s disgusted face and his outraged tirade. He hears slurs and insults, hears him say that he can’t believe Spencer tricked him like this, that he was probably waiting to make a move on him, that he was never to look in Ethan’s direction again, but Spencer is frozen in time.

He’s never allowed him to think much about what his personal life might look like in the future, but he’d said ‘husband’ on instinct, without thinking, and it’s clearly something he actually wants. Ethan’s words sting, but the moment brings about a realisation Spencer is thankful for; it instigates a journey of self-discovery and self-expression, of the joy of living as your true self.

He loses his first and only friend, but he gains something much more valuable. He visits gay bars — nervously sipping a non-alcoholic drink in the corner at first, before soon becoming confident enough to respond to the men who sidle up to him and ask for his name. He lets go and dances the night away, sometimes going home with one of the many dance partners he acquires during the night, sometimes heading back to his own dorm happily alone.

Makeup and dresses and skirts and heels make their way into his wardrobe, and he befriends girls and drag queens and other gay men who encourage him to be exactly the way he is. And the best part is, he never has to come out to any of them. All of them know, and that’s good enough for everyone.

The fun comes to a sad sort of slow, however, when he joins the BAU. Everyone knows law enforcement’s relationship with the LGBT community is less than adequate — Spencer’s seen it with his own eyes: butch lesbians and men in dresses getting roughed up by angry police officers for ‘lewd behaviour’ or ‘drunkenness’ when they’re just being themselves. It’s not safe for him to tell anyone, so he doesn’t.

He still goes out with his friends when he’s in town and wears makeup and dresses and crop tops when he’s at home, but presents as rigidly straight Dr Spencer Reid to his team at the BAU.

The hardest part about it is that he loves his team. He’s known Gideon for years — and he wouldn’t be surprised if he suspects something after coming over to his house unannounced one night, only to have a man other than Spencer open the door — but he settles into a comforting dynamic with Hotch. He can’t help but see him as something of a father figure, and he knows Hotch has a soft spot for him, always looking out for him and taking him under his wing without a moment’s hesitation.

Elle, JJ, and Penelope all take a shine to him, too, teasing him without a hint of malice in their tones, only the kind of playful kindness that reminds him of his mother. He forms a special bond with Penelope and they spend hours watching Doctor Who together and geeking out on all the areas their interests overlap, and the comfort he feels with her matches the comfort he’s found with his new group of queer friends.

(She doesn’t hold a candle to Ethan, he decides one night, after he’d cried at a movie she’d made him watch and she felt so bad she made him hot chocolate and jam toast and cuddled him until he felt better.)

Derek becomes a brother to him. He puts him in a headlock at least once a day — which Spencer has been reliably informed by multiple sources is a very brotherly thing to do — and teases him relentlessly, while simultaneously being fiercely protective of him. Enough so, that Spencer sometimes wonders if he even has Hotch beat in that department.

He loves his team and his team loves him. It should be simple. It is still 2003.

He comes in one morning late for a briefing, his shirt buttoned wrong and his hair is a mess, and he’s fairly sure that his attempt to cover the hickey at the base of his neck with concealer has been ultimately unsuccessful. It’s obvious why he’s late. Gideon is too engrossed in the case file to notice, but Hotch raises an eyebrow, an amused look on his face as everyone else immediately takes to teasing him.

“Who’s the lucky lady, pretty boy?”

Elle raises an eyebrow to match Derek’s shit-eating grin, “Someone definitely got some strange last night.”

“When do we get to meet her, Spence?” JJ asks, smirking as he takes a seat.

He’s bright red — as if he needed to look any more debauched — and Spencer tries to ignore the hurt that seizes his chest at the reminder of his need to stay quiet. This team respects him, and he can’t throw that away just because Spencer gets too comfortable.

God, he wishes Penelope was here.

“None of your business,” he mutters, trying to keep his tone light. He fails.

Naturally, Hotch notices and swiftly moves the briefing on, and Spencer keeps his gaze locked on the case file, not missing the absence of a reprimand from his superior. He’s constantly thankful for the older man, but in this moment, he wishes he could hug him.

(A voice that sounds dangerously close to Ethan’s rises up and taunts him in his ear: he wouldn’t want a dirty homo like you anywhere near him—)

Derek doesn’t let up on the case, continuing to bug him about the special lady in his life. He does concede that it could’ve been a one night stand, which is one front he’s right on, but a couple more concessions are necessary before Derek comes close to the truth of last night.

Eventually, Derek stops, and Spencer notes that the cessation of comments comes suspiciously close to the last time Derek and Hotch were alone together. He doesn’t have it in him to feel angry at Hotch for stepping in when he had it handled; doesn’t have the energy to act as though his pride is wounded, because really, neither of those things are true, and he doesn’t need to add another item to ‘Spencer Reid’s List of Things He Pretends to Be.’

The situation is forgotten, and time moves on.

Things change when he finds his first proper boyfriend. He doesn’t know what he was expecting, but it certainly wasn’t the giddying rush of emotions it turns out to be, and Spencer spends his days smiling as he daydreams his time away.

His name is Oscar Wilkins, a History professor at Georgetown University, and Spencer falls quickly in love with him. Ever since their mutual friend had introduced them at a gay bar one evening, they’d spent all their free time together. He’s kind and gentle and understanding of Spencer’s hectic and unpredictable job, and he finally has the chance to experience everything he quietly and shamefully longed for as a teenager.

The only downside is the silent breaking of Spencer’s heart that the most important people in his life can’t meet his boyfriend. He longs to show Oscar off, to hold hands in front of his team, lean up to press a tender kiss to Oscar’s lips. He wants to put a framed picture of the two of them at the Washington Monument on his desk to remind him of why he needs to get through the hard days; he doesn’t want to have to sneak out of the hotel room he shares with Derek to whisper hushed, loving goodnights over the phone.

But he’s too scared. Too cowardly.

It’s different being who he is with his gay group of friends littered with wlws and drag queens and other gay and bisexual guys. They understand.

But Derek and Hotch are two extremely masculine, alpha men: Derek’s a ladies’ man and Hotch is married to a woman he met in college with a baby on the way and both have a strong and dominant energy that still sometimes manages to intimidate Spencer even after all these years. And Elle and JJ are lovely — some of his closest friends, really — but sometimes they remind him a little too much of the mean girls he went to high school with.

The hardest person to keep his secret from, though, is Penelope. She’s his best friend and he desperately wants to give her all of him, but he’s so scared. He’s lost a best friend to this secret before, and even though he’s certain she’d be fine with it, what if she accidentally let it slip to Derek? What if Hotch found out and didn’t see him in the same light anymore? What if the girls started teasing him? What if Gideon didn’t want to mentor him anymore?

The fear paralyses him. And it’s a cycle he doesn’t know how to break.

Fear, though, doesn't stop everyone from noticing his daydreaming, his dopey smile when he checks his messages, his urgency to get home where he would’ve stayed until the small hours of the morning before. As excellent as he is at hiding his sexuality, he’s fucking terrible at hiding the fact that he’s in love: it was easy enough to pretend he was straight, but hiding something this all-consuming is an impossible ask.

Derek comes over to perch on the edge of his desk one afternoon, sighing as he sits down. “Pretty boy, this is getting ridiculous,” he says, snatching Spencer’s attention away from his phone. “You’ve been grinning like an idiot for the last twenty minutes as you’ve texted Future Mrs Reid. When are we going to meet her?”

(He hates the new nickname the team has given his mystery significant other, although Oscar had found it hilarious. “It’s funny because when we get married, we’ll hardly be able to tell,” he’d argued through his laughter. “Neither of us will change our name because of our academic profiles, and we’ll both still be ‘Dr’. Our wedding rings will be the only indicator.”

Spencer hadn’t argued back, because he’d been too tongue-tied and flushed pink at Oscar’s use of ‘when’ in regards to their hypothetical nuptials. It was only made bearable by Oscar kissing him gently and tucking him under his arm, not embarrassing him any further as Spencer had sort of anticipated, warmth settling over his chest at the thought of their future together.)

“You won’t,” he replies, perhaps a little too curtly.

Derek starts at that, clearly not expecting it. He definitely should’ve tried to play it off as a joke. “What— should I be offended, pretty boy?”

You wouldn’t call me that if you knew who I really am.

“That’s up to you, Derek,” he says calmly, although he still can’t meet his eyes, “but you won’t meet the ‘Future Mrs Reid, so I think it would probably be best if you left it alone.”

“Damn,” Derek mutters under his breath, clearly pissed off and probably more hurt than Spencer ever intended. “Suit yourself.”

And with that, he gets up and leaves his desk. Spencer’s only solace is the text message he sees on his phone when he picks it back up: I love you so much. You know that, right?

The light-hearted ridicule comes to an abrupt halt after the incident with Derek, and it’s clear that he had been the biggest contributor to the teasing. He’s thankful that the jokes have stopped, but he wishes desperately that it didn’t come with the growing distance between him and his team. Loneliness takes the place of his previous irritated anxiety, and he isn’t sure what’s worse.

It all comes to a head at the end of a case in Michigan. They’re stuck in the lounge of the small inn they’d stayed in the last few days, a snowstorm having blocked them in and grounded the jet, although Gideon had long since retreated to his room. The fire’s going and they’re the only guests around, so it’s cosy enough, but Spencer can’t help but feel sick at the idea of another night away from home.

It’s only been two weeks since he’d snapped at Derek, but the chasm between him and the team is only widening with each passing day. He knows it’s not a case of ‘pick a side’, but the team’s morale relies on light-hearted banter and teasing, and him not being a part of that anymore has only brewed awkwardness. Everyone’s trying to give him space when space is the last thing he wants.

Oscar’s keeping him company over the phone at least, but it’s not quite enough to quell the loneliness swimming around his stomach, and the 'discrete' sideways looks he gets from the team only make him feel worse.

“At least it’s nice and toasty in here,” JJ sighs as she takes a sip of the hot chocolate the kindly inn owner had made for them all.

Elle hums in agreement. ��There are worse places to be grounded.”

“I dunno, man, I just wanna get home,” Derek says, not taking his eyes off the fire. Spencer can’t help but agree.

“Oh, come on,” Hotch muses, considerably more jovial now the case is over, “we’re here, and that’s not going to change any time soon. We should make the most of it.”

“It’s at least nice to be somewhere sort-of Christmassy now it’s December,” Elle points out. “We could be stuck in a dingy police station like we probably will be next week.”

“Ooh, I noticed that Jemimah and Kiran started planning the Christmas party last week,” JJ says, smiling at them. “I offered my help, but they seem to have it covered.”

Hotch raises an eyebrow“That’s probably a good thing. You don’t need more work on your plate.”

“Not gonna argue with that,” she murmurs, smiling as she brings her mug to her lips again.

Spencer doesn’t miss that Derek is still stewing on the opposite side of the room.

“Are you looking forward to the Christmas party, Spencer? Will you come?” Hotch asks, clearly trying to rope him into the conversation, which he appreciates. He’s been making a lot of effort with him the past few weeks, and it’s just about the only thing that’s getting him through each day.

Before he can reply, though, Derek erupts from the other side of the room; an already pissed-off man being pushed over the edge. “He won’t even let us meet his fucking girlfriend, Hotch, he’s not gonna want to come to the Christmas party!” he yells, throwing his hands in the air as he glares at Spencer with a stormy expression raging across his face.

Suddenly, Spencer can’t stay silent anymore, and his retort shocks himself just as much as it does everyone else. “I don’t have a girlfriend!”

It might be the loudest he’s ever shouted in his whole life. He’s always been quiet and restrained, the type to state his feelings as calmly as possible no matter how he’s feeling on the inside. Even in the biggest fight he’s had with Oscar, his voice was barely loud enough to qualify as a shout.

There’s a brief stunned silence, but Derek quickly slices his way through it, voice raising to meet Spencer’s fiery emotion, fierce and loud. “Oh, don’t even go there, Reid, you’re really gonna try and argue that? You’re gonna lie about her as well as not let us meet her? What a boyfriend you are.”

“I don’t! I don’t have a girlfriend!” he repeats, voice catching this time as tears rise unbidden to the backs of his eyes and all the emotions of the journey he’s taken with his sexuality over the years flood him in a wave of intensity he’s not prepared for.

“You’re fucking lying—!”

“I have a boyfriend!” he yells. “Alright? I have a boyfriend. I’m gay.”

The anger and emotion quickly dissipates, and he’s left standing alone in front of the team he’s put so much effort into hiding this from, watching shock spell out across everyone’s expressions. He’s never felt smaller than he does in that moment, and he quickly grabs his phone before running upstairs to his room, locking the door behind him.

“Oh God, Oscar, I fucked up so bad,” he cries over the phone as soon as his boyfriend picks up.

“Hey, hey, breathe, baby,” Oscar says gently, but Spencer can hear the anxious concern in his voice, “it’s gonna be okay, I promise. I’m here. Do you want to tell me what happened?”

“I just— Oh God, I just told the team.” A new wave of horror rolls over him as he realises what he’s done. Times might be changing, but it’s still only 2006, and he doesn’t know each and every nuance of his team members’ political positions and, fuck, he hates that his existence is a fucking political position.

Oscar’s been so understanding of his reluctance to not tell the team, even though Spencer’s met pretty much everyone in his life. He isn’t sure what he’s done to earn such a gracious and understanding boyfriend, but he’s not about to question it.

“Baby, I know it’s scary, and I know you’re really worked up right now,” he counsels, voice soft and reassuring, using the nickname he knows Spencer loves the most to make him feel as safe as he can from 700 miles away, “but it’s probably not as bad as you think. From what you’ve told me about the team, they love you so much, and even in the case that in the past they've had some issue with gay people, I can't imagine they’d ever actually think of you any differently when it comes down to it, Spencer.”

He’s crying too hard to reply, and Oscar understands immediately, gently transitioning into a story about his day that slowly starts to calm him down, and by the time he’s wrapping it up, his tears are starting to subside.

“Thank you, Ozzy,” he whispers into the phone, lifting himself up off the floor and making his way to sit on the bed instead.

“You know I’d do anything for you, sweetheart,” he murmurs warmly. “Do you want me to stay on the phone for a bit?”

“Yes please,” he whispers again, holding it as close to himself as possible, drawing all the comfort he can from his boyfriend’s voice.

He lies there listening to Oscar’s voice and trying not to think about the disaster downstairs for a good ten minutes before there’s a tap at the door.

“Oz, there’s someone here,” he says, voice panicked.

“I think you should probably speak to them, baby,” he urges. “I’ll stay on the phone with you while you do, if you like?”

“Please.” He gets up from the bed gingerly, keeping his phone tightly gripped in his right hand as he slowly unlocks the door with his left, revealing Hotch on the other side.

“Hey, Spencer. Do you mind if I come in?”

He’s riddled with nerves, but Hotch is smiling warmly, and he’s never said a harsh word to Spencer, so he steps aside and lets him into his room.

Hotch quickly notices the phone in his hand, visibly still on a call. “Is that your boyfriend?”

Spencer nods.

“Do you mind if I talk to him?”

His brows knit in confusion and his lips part slightly in surprise, but it’s all he can do to hand the phone over, watching Hotch carefully.

“Hi, Spencer tells me this is his boyfriend?” Hotch inquires politely into the phone, his tone still warm. “I’m Hotch, Spencer’s boss.”

He can vaguely hear Oscar speaking on the other end of the line, and he worries slightly that Oscar will somehow give away the familial feelings he holds for Hotch, but the conversation doesn’t last long enough for the anxiety to really take over.

“Everything’s fine here, I just want to have a conversation with Spencer, so is it alright if we hang up and I talk to him alone for a minute? He can call you straight back afterwards.” After a brief pause in which Oscar says something, Hotch looks back up at him. “Are you okay with that, Spencer?”

He nods hesitantly, and Hotch says a quick goodbye to Oscar before surging forwards and wrapping Spencer in a hug. It catches him off guard, but he doesn’t waste any time in burying his face into Hotch’s neck and soaking in the comfort and warmth that always radiates from his father figure.

“Come on,” Hotch says softly as they pull away a good minute or so later, “let’s sit down, shall we?”

“You’re not mad?” Spencer can’t help but ask, the question burning his tongue as anxiety — however quietened from Hotch’s hug — still swims around in his stomach.

“There are many things that could make me mad, Spencer,” he says earnestly, “but this is not one of them. I would never be angry at you for being who you are, okay? I might… I might be overstepping here, and if I am, then tell me and I’ll back off, but I’ve always seen you as a mentee, and over the years that’s developed— well, I see you more as a son these days. And part of that is wanting to protect and support you no matter what you do or say or who you are.”

Spencer wastes no time in diving back in for a hug, clinging onto Hotch for dear life as he hugs back, rubbing his back gently.

“I’m so sorry you didn’t feel like you could tell us sooner, Spencer,” he says in a voice soft with affection and regret. “But I’m so glad you’ve told us now.”

He only presses closer at that, tears springing back to his eyes. “I didn’t want to lose you.” He knows what he’s implying, and even in a roundabout way, he’s glad he’s telling Hotch.

“Oh, Spence,” he sighs sadly, “you couldn’t do a single thing to lose me. I’m in it for the long haul.”

“Really?” he asks, hating how insecure he sounds.

“Really,” Hotch promises, pulling away as Spencer does. “Now, you have a whole team of agents downstairs who are feeling very sorry for themselves and really want to see you.”

Nausea rolls in his stomach and panic springs back up as he looks at Hotch, desperate for some sort of grounding. “Are they angry at me? Do they hate me now?”

“No one hates you, Spencer,” he says firmly. “I promise you that. Everyone just wishes that they’d made you feel more welcome and comfortable. We all hate that you felt you had to lock up something so integral to who you are, and we can’t help but feel we played a part in it.”

“No,” he protests — the last thing he wants is family blaming themselves when it has nothing to do with them, “it’s not your fault, it’s just…”

Hotch nods. “I understand, it’s okay. Now, do you want to go down and see them? You don’t have to if you don’t want to, but it might help ease your mind to see that they really don’t hate you.”

Spencer pauses, taking a moment to think. “Can I see Derek first?”

“Of course,” Hotch says understandingly, and the comforting smile that crosses his face makes Spencer feel safe and taken care of. “I’ll send him up?”

Spencer nods and Hotch hugs him once more before leaving the room almost reluctantly. He wastes no time in picking up his phone and sending a text to Oscar. You were right. Hotch is fine. He’s just sending Derek up before I go and see the team but he says that no one’s angry and I think I believe him. Thank you, Oscar. I love you.

Not even half a minute goes past before his phone lights up with a text back. I’m so glad, baby. Call me later, okay? I want to make sure you’re okay before I go to bed. I love you more.

Before Spencer can argue that actually, he is the one more in love with the other, a hesitant knock sounds on his door. Nerves suddenly flip his stomach, and he clenches and unclenches his fists a couple of times before forcing himself to cross the room, revealing a very worried and regretful-looking Derek.

“Oh, pretty boy,” he says sadly, before crushing Spencer in a warm and tender hug. Immediately, he relaxes into the arms of one of his best friends, and relief courses through his blood at Derek’s reaction. “I am so sorry that I ever made you feel like you couldn’t tell me that you were gay or had a boyfriend. That’s completely on me. I don’t care who you love, Spencer, I just want you to be happy, okay? And if this guy makes you happy, then that’s fine by me. But if he ever lays a hand on you or—”

“Derek, Derek,” he laughs, “it’s fine I get it. Thank you, though, I’m… I’m sorry I couldn’t tell you earlier and for snapping at you in the bullpen that time…”

“I understand, Spence,” he promises. “It’s in the past, okay? And I’m sorry for pushing so hard. I mean, I’d love to meet him but if you don’t feel comfortable or you don’t want to, that’s fine, too. It’s your life, man.”

“No, I… I think I want you guys to meet him. It’s been so hard to keep him away from the people I consider my family, you know?”

“Yeah, I know. Maybe after Christmas, we can all have dinner or something.”

Spencer smiles shyly. “Well, Oscar’s a great cook, so I reckon we could work something out.”

Derek grins, throwing an arm around his shoulders as he immediately jumps back into teasing him as they make their way to the door to go downstairs and see the rest of the team. “Ooh, lover boy’s got him a chef, hey? What else does this Oscar have going for him?”

Spencer chatters eagerly about his boyfriend to Derek, barely skipping a beat when he joins everyone downstairs, his friends taking his cues and joining in with the conversation seamlessly. He’s had enough fuss for one night, and the warmth and understanding on everyone’s faces tells him everything he needs to know.

“Do you have any pictures of him?” JJ asks, raising an eyebrow with eager expectancy as they all settle back into their seats by the fire, a warm and unbelievably happy feeling settling in Spencer’s stomach.

He blushes, digging out his phone from his pocket and unlocking it. “More than a few, I think.”

He finds the most recent picture of his boyfriend — a candid shot of him cooking in the kitchen, spatula aloft, and a huge grin on his face — and hands the phone around.

“Oh wow, you like them buff, huh, pretty boy?” Derek teases as soon as he gets his hands on it, and Spencer’s stomach twists in a sudden bout of fear, expecting to see some hesitancy or even disgust on his friend’s face. What if he thinks that Spencer has a crush on him? What if he’s uncomfortable around him now?

But if Derek’s having any of those thoughts, they don’t show on his face. He’s smiling widely and openly, all the pent-up anxiety and frustration borne from hurt gone from his body language, and he looks completely comfortable sat next to Spencer, his arm stretched out behind him on the back of the sofa.

They sit happily around the fire for a couple of hours, settling into a happy, intimate familiarity Spencer hadn’t realised was missing when he was hiding something so integral to his being from his family, and he’s still smiling when they finally part ways to head to bed, the clock ticking closer and closer to 1 am.

He gets ready for bed quickly, brushing his teeth and throwing on the top he’d stolen from Oscar the first time he’d stayed at his place; a welcome change from his worn and wrinkled suit. As soon as his teeth are brushed and the lights are all off except for his bedside lamp, he pulls out his phone, knowing there’s one more thing he has to do before he goes to sleep.

“Spencer?” Penelope’s voice sounds down the line, clearly concerned. “It’s almost 2 am here, are you okay?”

“I’m gay,” he says, getting straight to the point. The main reason he ever kept it from her was because of his fear of it accidentally getting out to the team rather than fear over her reaction. After all, multiple of his drag queen friends are also hers.

“Oh my God,” she says in that small voice she uses when she’s not actually talking to you, before finally actually replying to me. “Spencer, I’m so happy you told me!”

He doesn’t miss her choice of words, or the way she says them and he tilts his head suspiciously. “You already knew, didn’t you?”

She sighs. “Yeah. I’m sorry, a couple of months ago I saw a text from Oscar on your phone when you went to the bathroom during one of our Doctor Who marathons, and it wasn’t hard to figure out the relationship.”

“And… wait, you’re not mad at me for not telling you sooner?”

“Spencer! Of course not. I was waiting for you to be comfortable enough to share it with me. I felt awful that I knew without your consent but I didn’t want to tell you because I didn’t want to catch you off guard or make you feel uncomfortable. It’s fine that you waited, baby genius, I’m just so happy you told me now. What finally gave you the courage?”

“Well, it might have slipped out in front of the team this evening,” he admits sheepishly, “and the only reason I never told you was because I was scared that it would slip out somehow — accidentally, of course, I didn’t think you’d tell anyone on purpose — and now everyone knows. It’s been killing me not to tell you, Penelope, it really has because I love you so much and you’re my best friend and I trust you with my life, it’s just…”

“Whoa, slow down, Spence,” she laughs fondly, “you don’t have to explain yourself to me, I understand. But I’m glad you finally told everyone and you can be yourself completely with us, now. We all love you no matter what, you know that right?”

“I do now.”

“Good. You should get some sleep, baby boy, it’s late and you’ve had an emotional evening.”

Spencer smiles. “Yeah, I know. You should, too, Pen. I’ll see you when we can finally make it home, okay? Love you.”

“Love you, too, 187,” she says softly, and Spencer can hear the smile in her voice. “Goodnight.”

As soon as he hangs up, he settles down into the bed, turning off the light and pulling the duvet up over his shoulders before dialling one more number.

“Hey, baby,” Oscar says, voice as gentle and caring as it always is, although thicker with tiredness now. “I take it everything went okay?”

“Yeah,” Spencer murmurs, already feeling tired as the safety he always feels at the sound of Oscar’s voice settles into the fibres of his being. “It went so well. I can’t wait for you to meet everyone.”

“I can’t wait either, sweetheart. Are you in bed now?”

“Yeah,” he sighs. “Can you talk to me as I fall asleep?”

“Anything for you, Spence,” he says softly, before transitioning seamlessly into a story about the professors on campus, and his gentle comfort and the knowledge of the unconditional love his family has for him finally lulls Spencer into the best sleep he’s had in weeks.

taglist : @criminalmindsvibez @moreidstrobed @suburban--gothic @strippersenseii @takeyourleap-of-faith @negativefouriq @makaylajadewrites @iamrenstark @livrere-blue @hotchseyebrows @reidology @i-like-buttons @spencerspecifics @bau-gremlin @hotchedyke @tobias-hankel @goobzoop @marsjareau @garcias-bitch @oliverbrnch @physics-magic @sbeno22 @temily @enbyspencer @im-autistic @anxious-enby @kuolonsyoja @reidreids (add yourself to my taglist via this form!!)

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izziegs · 4 years

Text

Okay so TMA 187 analysis here, a bit more “Jon’s judgment of Helen was not entirely correct” from another Spiral fan

1. I think Jon’s analysis of Helen is (ha ha) distorted by A) his desire to justify her death despite her friendliness, and B) automatically made untrustworthy by the fact that Jon has never understood the Distortion. Helen has expressed before that him Knowing things about her is not the same as Understanding things, and he’s made it very clear before that he does not Understand (MD and HD are fusions, essentially. Combinations of the Spiral’s manifestation: the Distortion, and a human. In the same way Garnet is a combo of Ruby and Sapphire but not truly either of them, Helen Distortion has Helen Richardson in her, but is not actually Helen Richardson. She is both Helen and not, and was never Michael, though the Distortion was. Honestly, Jon, it’s not complicated)

2. We even saw this with Michael - I can’t forget that Jon assumed the Distortion was just a manifestation of the Spiral, not an avatar, and he seemed to take the revelation that Michael Shelley was an assistant as a sort of...betrayal, almost? Something that definitely threw off his idea of good-bad, where even though avatars could be bad their humanity kept them from becoming as monstrous as Michael, and the sudden shock of hearing otherwise, of seeing what he could become...I don’t think he ever bounced back from that.

3. Jon has always seen the worst in Helen. In 115, she came back to him for emotional help/venting/advice/connection and he lashed out at her, scared of seeing her become like Michael, still sore from betrayal from the Stranger, etc. From the get-go he decided this was just a Thing using Helen’s face, and even when she immediately told him otherwise, he rejected it. (“I don’t believe you” - “I have never told you a lie”) He chalked her vulnerability up to manipulation, and has never truly turned his view of her away from that initial assessment

4. 131 shows a lot of the same (“You’re still wearing her face” - “I’m not ‘wearing’ anything”) This episode Helen deliberately pushes against Jon’s desire to neatly separate them into bad and good, something Melanie pulls them away from to refocus on Jared

5. 143 doesn’t have them fight quite as much, though Jon does still seem very suspicious. Helen just shows up to eat Manuela and give Jon and Basira a door home

6. 157 - aka the day Jon uses as justification he was right Helen was never on his side even though it is One Thing. They’ve met four times prior to this and he’s been mean to her every time. I can understand her abstaining from helping him, especially when she thinks the end result will help her, and double especially when helping Jon would put her directly on the bad side of two very powerful avatars (Also, as Helen said, “If that makes it my fault, then surely this is Georgie’s fault as well, and Melanie’s-”. AFAIK, he’s not upholding that as proof those two are bad and against him)

7. Post-apocalypse, Helen tries to give Jon the advice he refused to give her. When she was fully accepting her avatar status, she just wanted someone she thought could help her, and now she’s trying to be that person for Jon. Hearing her later desire to keep the world as is, it would also make sense that she might’ve been trying to get him to agree with her, however, unlikely, so they could continue “helping” each other/wouldn’t have to have that inevitable fight. Something else notable about her in the Eye’s world: she forces Jon to stop withholding info from Martin. She forces them to talk about difficult topics (Smiting powers, where’s Basira/how is she, Martin’s domain) and had essentially become a more reliable source of info than Jon is. While her popping up was beneficial to Martin, it was annoying to Jon, and possibly also part of why he continued not liking her.

8. Now all of that, looking at 187: Again, Jon very quickly establishes that he doesn’t understand how Helen works (“I am not [Michael], and never have been. Surely you know all this by now”) and then explicitly says he is currently making judgments based on feeling instead of logic (which is not a new development, looking at his choices since The Eye Opens).

Here I’m going to go over a few of his specific lines from 187:

“Now you use her form, see her mind, but they’re just… tools.” - If that were true, there’d be no reason Helen would act completely differently than Michael did. If this were just a monster using a human’s mind for manipulation advice, why have a totally new personality? Helen is Helen, but Jon’s still stuck in his season 3 mindset

“Michael had nothing you could use but a razor-straight desire for vengeance, but you saw something in Helen that would work on me much more subtly. So you took her” - Bold of Jon to assume Helen taking over the Distortion was that influenced by him, lol. If the Distortion wanted you done for Jonathan, they’d have just kept Michael and let him eat you like he planned. Not everything’s about you.

“How long have you been working with Elias?” - This one is interesting because if he knows everything, he should’ve known whether or not Helen knew Elias (unless he assumed she could get into the Panopticon where he can’t see). Michael knew Elias, pre-Distortion, but Helen’s not talked to him. Jon didn’t think Jude Perry was working for Elias, despite her clear revelry in the new world. I think it’s weird he assumed that about Helen (unless he was also using that to justify her death)

Her commentary during his statement is funny, but interesting. The perfect time to attack him if she really wanted to, if she really had been building up to that like he thought she was, and she spends the time joking about him and Martin living in a Honeymoon Suite in her apocalypse hotel

“Is a friendship true, or is it reaching out with hands that cut you?” - Another interesting line to me because when Michael told Sasha he wanted to be her friend he deliberately manipulated his hand so that he could hold her hand without cutting her

“You worked to hurt us and help us, all with the same smile, until we can barely tell one from the other” - I think Jon is talking about Michael and Helen as one person in this part, but specifically with Helen she literally didn’t hurt you Jon she had one time she didn’t help

“Never quite crossing a line we could never forgive, but never putting yourself on the line either.” - Yeah, Jon, that’s what most people would do, tbh. It’s not unforgivable that she didn’t put her life on the line to help someone who has only ever been mean to her. Actually, she helped him more than most people would if treated that way

“It’s not me I’m worried about” - Another interesting line because even as he’s killing her, Helen’s final threat is to hold him in the halls until the End eventually gets his friends. She never threatens to harm any of them (because they’re her friends) - Edit: I can see how it could be interpreted as her threatening them buttt idk if she can kill them in the new world so I assumed it was End related. Still no empty threats, no real lies from her yet - Also, I think she genuinely does not want to kill Martin or Jon, she wants them to turn so they can all be friends without those messy ~moral hangups~

“If you do this, everyone inside me is dead!” - I wonder if this is true. I can’t tell if Jon was the only one that fell out of the halls in front of Martin. It’s not like the other domains, where taking the avatar in charge may usher in a new one. The Distortion was Helen. If this sentence is true, then Jon just murdered that mom and very possibly orphaned that five-year-old. Not just gonna brush that one off there

“Its hidden teeth and the ones it wears so proudly.” - Even in the end Jon still Doesn’t Get It. He still thinks the Distortion is pretending to be Helen. Was pretending to be Michael. As much as he should be an all-knowing being, he clearly still rejects what he doesn’t like

I don’t have a specific quote but Jon acting like the Distortion has had a constant motivation or like, consistent desire (outside of “cause problems for fun”) is wild because Michael explicitly told Jon he didn’t want the Watcher’s Crown to happen. Michael was going to kill Jon to stop it. He was on the exact side Jon is on right now. But I guess it’s easy for Jon to paint him as evil when the roles were revered, huh?

If you’re still reading this, uh. Hi. I really really like the Distortion (Michael and Helen) and I am Very Upset with Jon right now

Edit: This is not an argument on whether or not Helen was evil or if Jon was right to kill her too to save the world. She was absolutely evil and I can see why Jon felt her death was necessary I'm just saying he was wrong about her lying to him

#tma #the magnus archives #helen richardson #helen distortion #michael shelley #michael distortion #jon sims #tma 187 #tma spoilers #this is 1400 words of me analyzing every Helen appearance ever

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eldritchsurveys · 4 years

Text

790.

Have your parents ever tried to control your relationship? >> ---

Have you ever had to give someone directions before? >> Yeah, I gave them a lot when I lived in New York.

Speaking of which, are you good at understanding driving directions? >> I don’t drive, so it’s irrelevant. Also, if I need directions somewhere these days I just use Google Maps. (I don’t always use the GPS itself because I enjoy figuring it out on my own as if the app were a paper map.)

How many people do you text daily? >> One at most, but usually zero.

Do you have an iPod or an MP3 player? Which brand? >> No, I use my phone as a music player.

What was your favorite television show as a child? >> I don’t recall having one.

Do you play any instruments? Which instruments do you play? >> No.

Is there anyone who you call by their last name? >> No.

What did you do on your last birthday? >> I don’t remember. I don’t think we went to Chicago on that weekend, mostly because we did two Chicago day-trips last year to get my suit and couldn’t really budget in a third.

Which of the Seven Deadly Sins do you commit the most? >> Sloth.

Has anyone ever told you that you're incapable of whispering? >> No, but I’ve known a fair few people that fit that description.

What is your least favorite subject in school? >> ---

Have you ever been involved in a custody battle before? >> No. I was technically the subject of one as a baby, but it really isn’t much of a battle if one party doesn’t even bother showing up to fight...

Do you know a couple who constantly sucks on each other's face? >> That’s... such a disgusting turn of phrase, please spare me.

Who was the best kisser you've ever dated? >> ---

When was the last time you watched a YouTube video? >> This morning, with my breakfast. Watched Wisecrack’s new video about comedy news, which got me interested in Patriot Act (which I think is on Netflix?).

Have you ever babysat a newborn baby before? >> No.

How many times a week do you usually see the person you love? >> I see the important people in my life every day.

When was the last time you held someone's hand? >> ---

How many meals have you eaten today, so far? >> I ate one actual meal. Nothing else I ate today would qualify as a full meal to me.

Do you think it's stupid for people to call others "hot?" >> Uh, no?

Do you personally think Wikipedia is a reliable source? >> No, it’s a reliable springboard. The sources in the References section, on the other hand, can often be really useful.

Are you someone who listens to more girl or guy bands? >> Most of the artists I listen to are male.

Have you ever shopped at Wet Seal before? Did you like it? >> I know I’ve been inside one, back when there was one on Bleecker and Broadway, but I don’t remember if I bought anything.

Do you care about spending money if it's someone else's money? >> Of course I do.

What is your favorite Disney movie of all time? >> Lilo and Stitch, probably. I want to rewatch that soon, but I’m guessing everything Disney is on Disney+ right now (and streaming from torrents is an incredible pain in the ass in my experience).

When you were a child, did you ever want to become a wizard/witch? >> I don’t recall that ever coming up in my daydreams.

What are the color of your walls? Do you want to repaint? >> Off-white. They’re not my walls to paint (it’s an apartment complex).

Would you rather have hardwood floors or carpet? >> Hardwood, absolutely.

Do you have any siblings you neglect you? >> ---

Who would you say is the most selfish person you know? >> I wouldn’t say that about anyone I know.

Who was the last person you yelled at? Why? >> ---

As a kid, did you ever go to camp? >> Once, to church camp. I’ve gone to camp far more as an adult.

What were the last three movies you watched in theaters? >> Birds of Prey, uhh... fuck. Oh, right, Jojo Rabbit. Don’t remember anything beyond that.

Have you ever made out in a movie theater before? >> Yeah.

Are you currently trying to learn to play any instrument? >> No.

Do you believe in ghosts, spirits or demons? >> I’m open to the experience.

When was the last time you went somewhere you thought was haunted? >> I don’t usually think that about places. I don’t think I have much of a sense for that kind of phenomena.

What is your favorite breakfast meal? >> Veggie burger and chips, apparently, since that’s what I eat every day.

What does the lead singer of your favorite band look like? >> ---

Who was the last person to compliment you? >> I don’t remember the last compliment I got.

How old were you when you got to go on your first date? >> I was eighteen the first time I went on a date.

Would you call your parents over-protective or under-protective? >> ---

Did your parents ever let you play in the pits of those multicolored balls? >> No. I also just don’t think I encountered any of those.

What is the best movie you've seen in the last five years? >> I’ve seen at least like 60 movies in the past five years, how could I possibly choose.

Has anyone ever called you a good kisser before? >> Maybe.

Have any of your siblings ever had a crush on your significant other? >> ---

Are you the jealous type? >> Not at all.

Does life ever seem overly ironic to you? >> Not... really?

When was the last time you felt like you were high on life? >> I’m not familiar with that feeling.

Do you know someone who cares about themselves more than their child? >> I’m sure I do, somewhere. There are a lot of people in this world that behave in ways that suggest this. I mean, my own mother was one.

Do you still watch cartoons on television? >> I watch them on streaming services, but yeah.

What do you usually order at Taco Bell, if you go there? >> I don’t usually go there. I do sometimes like that caramel empanada thing they sell, though.

Is there anyone currently annoying you? >> No.

What's your favorite hairstyle you've had so far? >> ---

Do you have freckles? >> No.

How many dogs do you have, if any at all? >> Zero.

Have you ever witnessed someone being beaten up? >> Yep.

Do you think biting is weird or sexy? >> Depends on the context, don’t it? It’d be weird as fuck if a stranger came up and bit me, for example.

Would you rather be called hot or beautiful? >> No.

Have you ever had a pet turtle before? >> Nope.

Do you still sleep with your parents when you're scared sometimes? >> ---

Have you ever met someone with two different color eyes? >> No.

Have you ever felt like someone was following you? >> Probably.

How many surveys on average would you say you've done in your lifetime? >> Oh, god. Like... a couple thousand at least.

What color shirt are you wearing at the moment? >> Black.

Do you enjoy going school shopping? >> ---

Do you think Pug dogs are adorable or just plain ugly? >> I think they’re a pretty disturbing mutation of dogness, but I wouldn’t treat them poorly because of it. It ain’t their fault humans are weird.

Have you ever met someone who completely resembled their pet? >> No, but I’ve seen listicles like that, lol. They’re always funny.

Has anyone ever knitted you something before? >> No.

What was the worst substance you've spilled on yourself before? >> I don’t recall ever spilling anything heinous on myself. Alcohol can be bad because then you smell like booze and that’s just not a good look.

Have you ever made out with more than one person in one night? >> Yeah.

What three words would describe the person you love? >> ---

Do you think their is a soulmate out there for everyone? >> I don’t find the concept of soulmates useful at all. I guess you could use that word for how I feel about Can Calah, but there are too many awkward (for me) connotations attached to that word by now and I would just rather not.

Do you like short or long surveys the best? >> Longish. This is kind of too long for me, tbh, but I soldier on.

Do you think hairspray is more helpful or annoying? >> I don’t use hairspray.

Have you ever bought fake money and tried to make it pass for real? >> No.

Are your siblings nice the majority of the time? >> ---

How many uncles do you have? >> ---

What would you say is the worst movie you've ever seen? >> All of the movies I really didn’t like, I didn’t finish, so I can’t remember them now.

Do you freak out when a thunderstorm comes along? >> I freak out in excitement, lol. I did freak out pretty badly when I was a child, though. And then one day in adolescence the switch flipped. *shrug*

What is something you'd consider yourself obsessed with? >> Mythology.

How often do you shower? >> Every couple of days.

Have you ever had to sell something for a school fundraiser? >> No.

What is the absolute worst thing about high school? >> What isn’t.

How many sodas do you usually drink in one day? >> Zero.

What kind of cheese do you like the most? >> Pepper jack. Also goat cheese.

Have you ever met someone who was completely weird all-around? >> I wouldn’t describe anyone like that, it doesn’t convey any actual information.

Have you ever met an annorexic pregnant woman? >> What the fuck. What is your favorite lyric of all time? >> ---

Do you know someone who has made their Xbox their best friend basically? >> No???

Do you ever watch any soap operas? >> I mean, I watch Grey’s Anatomy.

Have you ever met someone who was mean to everyone? >> Sure.

If you had to get a tattoo, what would it be? >> I would love to get another tattoo, but seeing as that’s not going to happen any time soon, I don’t have any ideas firmly in mind right now.

If you have any piercings, who did them? >> I don’t remember where I got my nose piercing. Probably at that one spot on St Marks Place. (My ears were done as a baby.)

Do you usually have a low tolerance for pain or high tolerance? >> I have a pretty decent tolerance for most physical aches, but not any kind of abdominal cramp.

Do you give into peer pressure easily? >> That’s not really an issue for me.

Have you ever simply looked at someone & could tell they were homosexual? >> Not unless they were wearing gay pride attire at the Pride parade, or something. Even then they could just be a really exciteable ally, lol (or an otherwise not-cishet person but not necessarily a gay person).

Do you have the ability to read someone without even knowing them? >> No.

Would you rather eat or sleep? >> Er... whichever one I needed at the time?

Are you one of those die hard Twilight or Harry Potter fans? >> No.

Have you ever cried while watching a movie trailor? >> Yeah, they do shit with the music that gets to be painfully identifiable after a while but my brain is still a sucker for it.

When was the last time you changed your hairstyle? >> I don’t remember. I’ve been buzzing my head for years.

Do your parents ever force you to talk to your grandparents? >> ---

If you were a crayon, what color would you be? >> Meh.

Do you think long surveys are broing or entertaining? >> Well, most of them are boring because the questions start to flag in quality. Do I still take them? Yeah. You do what you gotta do.

Have you ever learned that someone had lied to you all along? >> Yup.

When was the last time you had a physical injury? >> I don’t remember.

Have you ever wanted to be a lawyer? >> Not at all.

Have you ever had to bail someone out of jail before? >> No. I don’t even have that kind of money.

Is there anyone in your imediate family who was adopted? >> ---

Do you know anyone who doesn't have any common sense? >> I don’t think common sense is a thing. There are people I know who are not experienced in the same ways I’m experienced; when they are clueless about a thing I’m intimately familiar with, then it sometimes strikes me as odd, yeah. But that doesn’t mean my sense is “common” or that they’re stupid, it just means I’m used to knowing what I know and I often assume other people do too (which is what I get for assuming).

When was the last time you bought something? >> Saturday, at the farmers’ market.

Do you think you look anything like your parents? >> ---

Who is the skinniest person you know? Is it because of a disease? >> I don’t know, man, I’m not keeping track.

Do you know someone who is discustingly obese who wears G-strings? >> Wow.

Do you know someone who insults themselves to get attention? >> I know a lot of self-deprecating people, but far be it from me to assume that they’re doing it for attention. Some might be, but that’s not up to me to determine.

Is this year the best one you've had so far? >> LOL

What are your plans for this weekend? >> This coming weekend? I have no idea.

What color is your significant other's hair? >> Sparrow’s hair is currently a burgundy-type red. Can Calah’s hair is white. King Crimson’s hair is kind of the same colour as Sparrow’s, incidentally.

Have you ever applied for a job at Walmart before? >> Maybe.

Do you know anyone who does drugs currently? >> Sure.

Would you ever become a foster parent? >> No.

Are you ashamed of anyone in your family? >> ---

What jobs do your parents have? >> ---

Would rather talk to someone on a landline or a cell phone? >> I’d rather not talk to anyone on a phone, period.

Have you ever had a Tumblr account? Are you devoted to it? >> What’s tumblr? (I don’t know if “devoted” is the word I’d use, but I’m pretty fond of my blogs and the fun I have putting stuff on them.)

Has anyone ever given you a psychiatric assessment? >> Yes.

If you got pregnant right now, would you abort the baby? >> Of course, but see, I avoid that situation entirely by just not doing anything that could possibly get me pregnant.

Speaking of which, are you for or against abortion? >> Take a wild guess.

What is your favorite amusement park? >> I don’t have one. Well, does Luna Park at Coney Island count? Lot of good times there.

What was the best Christmas gift you've ever gotten? >> ---

Has anyone ever called you jealous of them before? >> Sure.

Did you ever have braces? >> Nope.

Who is your favorite actor or actress? >> It varies.

What is the most important date in your life so far? >> ---

How many people your age do you know who are pregnant? >> Zero.

What is cuter: kisses on the forehead of the cheek? >> ---

Do you believe in evolution or creation? >> I stand pretty firmly on the side of evolution. I do love a good creation myth, though.

Would you rather take a bath or a shower? Why or why not? >> I will never take a bath if I can help it. I just have a strong aversion to them, take it up with my neuroatypical brain matter.

What group would you say you'd normally fit into the most? >> Bold of you to assume etc etc

As a child, what game did you want to play the most? >> ---

Does it bother you when people touch your personal items? >> It really does. Unless I’ve given express permission, of course, but that doesn’t really happen with anyone except Sparrow.

When was the last time you did something sexual? >> Er... about a week ago? Something like that?

Where was the last place you went on vacation? >> Texas. Kind of a vacation. Mostly a day-and-a-half trip for the purpose of attending a wedding.

Do you collect anything? What? >> No.

What kind of Pringles do you like the most? >> I don’t.

Are you better at hand-drawing things or painting? >> I assume I’m slightly better at drawing than at painting, simply because I actually have a background in drawing (although my muscle memory is pretty atrophied).

Have either of your parents ever called you a failure before? >> Not in so many words.

What do you think is the grossest taste in the world? >> Oh, I don’t know.

#surveys #survey #random survey

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murasaki-murasame · 4 years

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I was planning to make my own post about how I think the wind mana spirals will go, and then Cygames went ahead and laid it out for us way earlier than I expected, lmao.

But anyway there’s some interesting stuff going on here that I have some thoughts on.

Basically all three of these characters went in slightly different directions than I expected. Mostly Hawk and Lin You, but still.

I thought that they’d give Hawk the exact same buff as Nefaria, maybe minus the buff dispel, but even though they still stuck poison on him, his S2 is at least slightly different to hers, since it’s now a skill shift thing where the first round lets him inflict stun and poison via his next two force strikes, and then the second round is a damaging skill with poison punisher. He also gets loses the Full HP condition on his A1, whereas Nefaria still has hers, so that’s interesting.

I’m very curious to see how much this helps him, since Nefaria got a MASSIVE boost to her DPS through her mana spiral upgrade. Though she also got some unique utility with her buff dispel that gives her a meta position in Kai Yan even if you ignore her high damage. Hawk doesn’t really get any sort of unique utility like that, but maybe wind Agito won’t really require anything like that. And tbh I’m glad that it means he probably won’t serve the exact same role in wind Agito as Nefaria does in Kai Yan.

It’s kinda hard to tell if the skill shift on his S2 is going to raise or lower his overall DPS, if you compare him to Nefaria. Her altered force strike is apparently extremely powerful, so Hawk might be held back by having his S2 only change his force strikes half the time. Although Nefaria’s S2 powers up her next single force strike, while Hawk’s powers up his next two force strikes, so that also might influence things.

He might still be very good as a poison enabler in wind Agito when that comes out, but I’m not sure if he’d be good enough to break into the HMC meta. The poison meta has had a very hard time catching on in HMC, and we already have Joachim as a poison-enabling wind bow, and he at least has the appropriate status resistance. It’s possible that there’s cheese strats you can do with Hawk’s stun, though. I feel like that’d only be relevant in mHMC though, not eHMC.

I probably won’t build him up, since that’d take a lot of resources that I don’t have, but I’m glad he’s getting the buff.

I had a feeling Lin You was gonna be the mystery third mana spiral unit, but I’m still kinda salty that Sylas continues to be on the back-burner, lol. He desperately needs any sort of buff. Maybe we’ll get another round of wind mana spirals next month, if they release wind Agito next.

I wasn’t really sure what they would do with her kit, since she’s already a pretty solid unit all around. I honestly thought they might make her S2′s heal effect the entire team to help her sub in for Wedding Elly in HMC, but it looks like they decided to make her more like Ezelith. Which makes a lot of sense, honestly. She has a crit rate passive, her themed wyrmprint gives crit rate, and the dragon that’s basically paired with her gives crit damage. She’s not exactly the same as Ezelith, though, since her buffs are more about her building up to a 50% or so crit rate for most of the fight, compared to Ezelith getting 100% crit rate in short bursts. I think it fits the axe play-style nicely, though.

I was kinda worried at first that it might be really hard for her to keep up her combo count, since axes are kinda slow in general, but then I saw that they’re also giving her a combo time ability like Valerio and Mitsuba, lol. That’s one way to make it more feasible to maintain high combo counts on slower units.

The change in her abilities is probably the biggest deal out of her mana spiral, but I’m curious to see the full details on how her S1 changes her next three force strikes. It’d be nice if the cyclones are multi-hit attacks that help her rack up her combo count quickly.

I’m not entirely sure how much this will help her break back into HMC, since her buffs are purely about her personal DPS, and she still doesn’t have the team utility that Wedding Elly does, but it at least makes her an even better unit for general content. Maybe she’ll suffer a bit from also not having anything related to poison in her kit, but honestly we need more DPS units who aren’t wrapped up in status afflictions to achieve their full potential.

I think she has a lot of potential to be a great DPS unit for wind Agito when that comes out, though, for basically the same reason as why Ezelith is a core DPS unit against Volk.

I don’t think I’m very interested in investing in her mana spiral since I have like no testaments at the moment and I already main Noelle in HMC, but at the very least it looks like she’ll probably benefit most from using Long Long now, which is nice for me since he’s my only strength-based 5-star wind dragon that I have max unbound, lol.

If there’s any unit out of these three that I might actually invest in, it’s probably Su Fang, and that’s mostly just because I really like him as a character. In the long run I should probably save my resources for other 70MC characters, but at least on paper I think his mana spiral might make him a really strong unit.

I was kinda hoping they’d give him more of a crit-based kit, but I can see why they didn’t, since they chose to do that with Lin You instead. It’s still a little bit lame to see him get the poison treatment, but realistically I think he’ll benefit a lot from it.

I had a feeling they’d give him poison punisher on his S1, if they went this route, but I didn’t expect them to basically give him the Delphi treatment by having his S2 give a poison effect to his next force strike. I imagine that unlike Delphi his poison mods are going to be normal, though, since he’s a normal DPS unit outside of that.

In general his S2 got a pretty big buff, which I’m glad to see. They bumped the strength buff from 25% to 30%, while also increasing the duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds, which I think is a fairly sizeable increase to his damage across the board. Though some of that time will probably be spent by you using a force strike to inflict poison. But it still seems like a pretty big improvement.

I’m curious to see if they’re gonna buff the damage mods on his S1, since they’re pretty low, or if they’ll be kept the same, and the poison punisher damage mods will be the main buff.

Since he’s just a welfare 4-star unit his abilities didn’t get changed much, but there’s a lot to be said for his skill damage passive going from 20% to 35%. I mean, that ended up being one of the core reasons why Xania became a meta flame unit. So I think he might end up being the dark horse of this batch.

I’m not sure if this will help him break into the HMC meta because of the recurring issue of raw DPS units not having the utility that Wedding Elly brings, but he might end up being a really good poison enabler for poison comps. Hopefully.

I think he also has a lot of potential in wind Agito, for basically the same reasons as Lin You. It’s a long shot, but I really hope that the phase 2 form of the wind Agito boss is classified as a Therion, like Volk, so Su Fang can take advantage of his Therion’s Bane ability getting buffed to 35%. That might really swing things in his favour, but even if it ends up being a dead ability, I think he might still be good for that fight. At the very least, his crit rate coability would probably sync nicely with Lin You’s new play-style.

There’s a pretty high chance that I’ll 70MC him as soon as I have the materials for it, but I at least want to wait and see how his mana spiral compares to Hawk and Lin You, in the long run. It might just not be worth the investment. I really want him to be good, though.

Even though I mostly just want Sylas to finally get a buff, it’d also be a shame if they skip over Ku Hai, since he got introduced along with Lin You and Su Fang, and he also has a pretty lopsided kit. If he got more reliable sources of crit rate I think he could be really good. This event also introduced Xiao Lei but she’s from a different element altogether so it’s not a surprise that they’re skipping her for now.

But on a related note, since we’re getting mana spirals for Su Fang and Lin You to go along with this event rerun that’s coming up, I have a feeling that instead of us getting a new wind banner, they might just rerun the Lin You banner and put Hawk on rate-up along with it. It’d be a nice way to showcase their new mana spiral upgrades. And tbh we don’t really need an entirely new wind banner at the moment, since we got the Kirsty and Joachim one really recently. Maybe we’ll get an additional new banner for a different element along with a banner rerun, though.

Also, I think we’re still expecting mana spirals for 3-star shadow units at the end of this month. I’m curious to see how that goes, but I feel like it’s going to be too little too late. They already gave mana spirals to just about every shadow 5-star, and the meta for both HJP and Kai Yan have had time to solidify, so 3-star units aren’t really going to have much of a chance to meaningfully compete against that. I feel like they’re basically all just going to be budget options for existing 5-star units, and they’ll only be worth investing in if you either don’t have those 5-stars, or you really like some of the 3-stars as characters.

I still hope they’re planning to give mana spirals to 4-star shadow units like Norwin, though. At this point he’s probably never gonna be as good as Nefaria, but I just want him to be viable in endgame content, lol.

#murasaki rambles #dragalia lost #still waiting for Sylas to hopefully eventually get his own mana spiral :)#ONE OF THESE DAYS

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tradingjack · 5 years

Photo

Hey so uh I forgot that I hate drawing wings lol

Anyways, this is a headcanon I came up with sometime 2 weeks ago and I’m sure someone else already came up with as well and wrote about before I finished this involved-ass drawing and wrote about it myself but I’m sharing it anyway. Of course it involves Good Omens cause uhh that’s the current hyperfixation my dudes

Basically this is the Archangel, Raphael.

About the headcanon under the cut if you’re interested (prepare for a goddamned novel)

So yeah, this is a drawing of the Archangel Raphael. I’m sure those interested have heard the theory by now that Crowley could have been the Archangel Raphael before the Fall, based on the fact that Raphael is not in Good Omens canon (seemingly replaced by Sandalphon or whatever), Raphael’s symbol is a snake wrapped around a staff, and, for me personally, the fact that Crowley can just??? Stop time????? Like what kind of overpowered Bull Shit

(I’m sure there’s a bunch of other things that support this theory that I just don’t know, please look it up some people really go in depth and it’s awesome)

Also, a brief note on angel rankings. I looked it up, and it didn’t really help because there is a lot of conflicting information out there. In the end, I just kept it at Wikipedia cause fuck it, it is a pretty reliable source in the end. We’re gonna be focusing on the first and third spheres, since the second sphere really doesn’t apply. Basically, the highest order of angels are seraphim, followed by the cherubim and then the thrones. Skip the second sphere, and the lowest three rankings are, in order of most to least rank, principalities (or rulers), archangels, and angels. Now, concerning the difference between archangels and Archangels: apparently the capital letter makes a big ol difference. Archangels with a capital letter are not, in fact, the second lowest ranking but may be interpreted to mean above all other angels, and are the highest ranked angels even among the seraphim. Therefore, the highest angels of the highest are referred to as Archangels with a capital A. (Idk if the Archangels are even really mentioned in the book, I haven’t read it yet, so idk if their titles are capitalized. I’m talking mostly in the context of the Amazon Prime show.)

Quick description of seraphim and therefore Archangels straight from Wikipedia: “fiery six-winged beings; with two wings that cover their faces, with another two that cover their feet, and the last two they use to fly.” (Oh shit I forgot the fire goddamnit I’m such a fuckin idiot oh well it’s too late I wrote this after I finished the drawing)

So, Crowley could be the fallen Archangel Raphael. However, as someone else brought up (and I’ve seen several posts stating this), the name “Aziraphale” is like a bastardization of the phrase “Also Raphael,” meaning Aziraphale could have been the Archangel Raphael but demoted and therefore forced to be renamed. It makes sense that Aziraphale could have been at least of a higher rank than a Principality because he was supposed to be guarding the Gates of Eden, which, in biblical canon, were guarded by higher ranking angels than Principalities (I think they were as high up as cherubim?? idk).

And then I heard, when Neil and Terry were writing the book, both Aziraphale and Crowley were originally just the demon, Crowley. I think it was Terry who made the decision to split that one character into 2 characters instead.

(Also if that isn’t the most soulmate-y shit I’ve ever heard)

But also like... What if that was how it was in canon?

What if........Crowley and Zira............................were both........the Archangel Raphael before the Fall?

Cause like, Raphael (or Israfel, in some religions) literally means “God heals.” Some of the things they’re the patrons are are of “young people,” “guardian angels,” “lovers,” “travelers,” basically everyone in the medical field, and “ordained marriage.” They’re like... everything optimistic and loving and hopeful about humanity. (Nothing about time but like, wtf?? That’s so powerful it’s gotta be the power of the seraphim, it’s at least equal enough to Lucifer’s power that it’s able to give them more time before Lucifer shows up to make a game plan, like it stops Lucifer???? That’s some power to give a lowly-ass demon, that an angel as powerful as a Principality isn’t able to do) It makes you think huh, maybe they care about humanity a lot more than most of the others would. So how would they have fallen?

Well, maybe they got angry at God for testing the humans so damn much. Like Crowley said, a tree right in the middle of the garden that’s super accessible? Literally the only thing the humans aren’t allowed to touch when humans, the most curious and spiteful things in the universe, are more likely to touch something when they’re told not to, when it’s obviously not allowed, and doesn’t appear to present any immediate danger? It’s not very fair.

Another interesting thing; in some canon, Raphael is even considered to be the closest to God, able to talk directly to Her, and possibly even the highest ranking angel of all, even above Michael. So God was likely very close to Raphael in return. (Of course, in the context of the show, it seems that all of the Archangels are very disconnected and are also all on equal footing, it not being entirely clear where Michael, Uriel, and Gabriel stand with each other in terms of ranking even though Michael is usually considered the highest ranked in most biblical canon. One explanation I came up with is that after God banished Raphael, that would be two of the seven archangels that She would have had to banish, her favored, so She could have withdrawn from everything in order to have some alone time, and just became more and more withdrawn as time went on until it was like She’d completely abandoned them.)

And if Raphael started questioning this wrathful god who just kicked out like, half of heaven, including Lucifer, one of her other favorites, I imagine she’d be pretty upset and not willing to hear about complaints right now. But she trusts this angel, so instead of straight kicking Raphael out, she gives them a choice instead. It’s not like they’re trying to straight rebel, anyways.

When Raphael chooses to leave, She doesn’t have a choice then but to cast at least that part of Raphael out, the part that cares too much, who doesn’t want to harm the humans. She says, “crawl under the feet of those you care so much about,” and splits their eyes and casts their staff down into hell cause like, you can’t just have a rogue ethereal being wandering about Earth with the humans, so the newly formed snake which represents all that Raphael chose to leave heaven for is Lucifer’s problem now.

But in splitting Raphael like that, she’s left with this less powerful being who’s still attached to heaven, who still has the gold of an angel but it looks washed out on their head, and who looks up with sky blue eyes and who looks lost as anything. She doesn’t want Raphael gone, so She pretends this one is also Raphael, but She’s still kinda upset so She sends this “Also Raphael” to Earth to guard Eden. Because they’re weakened, She equips them with a limited edition Flaming Sword™ and sends them to guard the Gates of Eden.

Meanwhile, the Raphael that got sent to Hell gets processed (?) and realizes that they’re now a snake. They really don’t like the name “Crawley” in the future so I imagine that when they joined hell, they were given the name “Crawley” based on the fact that they’re now a snake, and none of the residents of Hell wanna go to Earth since the entire reason almost all the demons in hell got kicked out of Heaven is cause they didn’t wanna love humans. “Crawley,” however, got kicked out for caring about humans too much, so the lords in hell decide to send them. So “Crawley” ends up tempting the humans into eating the fruit, making sure it’s on their terms and happens somewhat safely, and watches the humans leave.

And then he meets “Also Raphael,” and, as someone else has pointed out, Crowley has never had to ask for their name. They just know 👀

Crowley, imo, has been the better of the two, consistently throughout the series. Crowley’s never killed, has always questioned why humans have to be tested and hurt and killed, including motherfucking Jesus Christ, hasn’t even lied to Aziraphale, tries to get out of doing their job consistently, jumps on the opportunity to perform miracles alongside their dastardly inconveniences, has been in love with Aziraphale ever since they found out that Zira helped protect the humans by giving the couple Zira’s own protection??? The “god-given Flaming Sword™?” HELLO THIS DEMON IS IN LOVE AND THAT IS ACTUALLY CANON?????? That, and like... while Aziraphale, who’s still a part of heaven’s whole bureaucracy deal, felt the need to contact god through a whole damn ritual, all Crowley did to try and contact God was just look up and talk. I think Crowley knows about the choice and about who they were before the Fall, but doesn’t associate themselves as Raphael anymore, therefore the “I didn’t chose to fall, (BUT) I just sorta sauntered vaguely downwards.”

(Going off of that, I don’t think Crowley knows that Aziraphale is literally their other half; I like to think that Crowley just thinks Aziraphale was the angel chosen by Her as their replacement in heaven, therefore “Also Raphael” meaning another Raphael and not literally part of them that they left in heaven. They don’t know why they knew that Aziraphale was named Aziraphale right off the bat, but it doesn’t really matter to them tbh; before they fell in love, they thought Aziraphale was just another angel, and then after they fell in love it still didn’t matter cause they were in love baby!)

Meanwhile, Aziraphale’s goodness is either out of fear of disobeying heaven or being nice to Crowley. Which, they’re not even that nice to Crowley when it matters tbh. Or humans, most of the time. Like they protected Adam and Eve but wasn’t gonna blink an eye about all those children being drowned until Crowley guilted them about it.

Although they used to be the same angel, I think that, over 6000 years and even then, in the Garden, Crowley and Aziraphale ended up becoming their own person. Aziraphale, even though God cast out the part that cared about humans a little too much and is basically Raphael’s attachment to heaven and God, ended up caring quite a bit on their own, giving the first couple that sword for protection and growing very attached to the things humans created, and abandoned their allegiance to heaven after losing their faith. Crowley, who is the care and defiance and power of the archangel Raphael, ended up a pretty lowly ranked demon and is pretty damn bitter, especially after the death of Jesus of Galilee, and when they do use their power, it’s usually to fuck with humans in some capacity (unless it’s to help himself or Aziraphale :P ).

TL;DR I think that both Crowley and Aziraphale are remnants of the Archangel Raphael after the Fall because Raphael questioned God concerning the testing of the humans and chose to leave heaven. God wasn’t happy and did some shit that ended up with Crowley and Aziraphale being as they are. But both are still their own person.

#good omens #my art #crowley #aziraphale #Archangel raphael #headcanon #dude I went off jesus I'm not doing a wordcount on that shit but goddamn #thanks for reading all of that if you did #I don't blame you if you didn't

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walkonwalkonwithhopeinyourheart · 6 years

Text

/r/Liverpoolfc's growing, dying, growing, dying again and then growing belief about signing Virgil van Dijk via /r/LiverpoolFC

/r/Liverpoolfc's growing, dying, growing, dying again and then growing belief about signing Virgil van Dijk

2016

December

6th: De Telegraaf claim Liverpool have scouted Virgil van Dijk at every match for 2 months. Rumoured to have a £25m release clause.

I'd be extremely surprised if there is a top team who hasn't "scouted" him. He's a great CB with some great potential and will no doubt be close to world class in the coming seasons.

/u/themysteriousshadow

There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't benefit from Van Dijk but I can't see us getting him. He'll have a massive price tag and we already have 3 CBs + Lucas. Although you're right, Van Dijk + Matip would be a fantastic partnership.

/u/cannaswiss

He will likely go to City or Utd for big big money.

/u/aeceus

13th: NBCSports confirm van Dijk does not have a release clause.

Yea, like that's going to stop us....lol

/u/youngtafari

Still don't get why we didn't sign him at Celtic... though I guess we weren't expecting all that Sakho drama to unfold.

/u/bigpenisdragonslayer

We're not going to sign him.

/u/oscarony

2017

January

22nd: Steven Gerrard: Liverpool should sign Virgil van Dijk

If we get CL and City don't I feel like we have a real shot of getting him. I wouldn't complain if he cost 50m

/u/sirgoldfish

The rest of the thread was people just giving shit to Stevie :(

March

28th: Southampton potentially interested in Sakho, while VVD could be off to Chelsea (Bascombe)

Strengthening Saints with Sakho, whilst VVD goes to Chelsea would be vintage Liverpool.

/u/rainfall7711

This is a classic Chelsea move. Bolster the (tied for) best defense in the league by buying someone that would be a big contributor to other top 6 teams. Cahill, David Luiz, Azpilicueta, Zouma, Ake and now Van Dijk for 3 spots in a 3-5-2. Total dickheads

/u/bstodds

April

13th: [Dom King] Liverpool join race to sign Virgil van Dijk with Jurgen Klopp keen to bolster his defence with the Southampton ace

£20-30m for Sakho, £40-50m on Van Dijk. Would not be opposed. At all. Pls.

/u/The_Backseatsman (hey I was right about the Sakho price)

Please for the love of God let this be true and we smash our transfer record to bring him in.

/u/vinpan2

If either one of Chelsea or City are seriously interested in Van Dijk, then we might miss out tbh. Especially if Chelsea are interested, I can see him going there if they win the league, which of course they will.

/u/youngmurf

13th: Barrett - Liverpool in for van Dijk and Naby Keita

VVD is going to be expensive but I'd say fuck it.

/u/PM_ME_PUSSIES_NOW

Pleased that Van Dijk is a target. Think it'll take a fucking miracle to pull him away if Chelsea or City are after him. Van Dijk, Matip, Lovren and Klavan as back up is a strong defensive unit

/u/sefilis

If Chelsea or Man City wanted him, seriously, we have zero chance. My advice is expect nothing. Especially not Van Dijk and Keita. The only saving grace we may have is Man City have spent heavily in recent years on cbs, and so have Chelsea, though Chelsea will definitely have a spot to fill after this season.

I also doubt we'd pay 50mil. All these articles popping up about a massive chest to spend on players, when we know it's going to depend on sales and that's the end of it.

/u/rainfall7711

May

3rd: Virgil van Dijk agrees to join Liverpool if they finish top 4

50 million still seems an awful lot. But him and matip with klavan, Lovren and Gomez would be a solid group of cbs for next season

/u/psychotic_bear

I know he's a top class centreback, but £50m is still a huge amount of money.

If we can get him in and the rest of our targets, happy days, but I would hate to lose out on someone like Keita because we wouldn't pay an extra 5 or 10m because of Van Dijk.

/u/boardsandbikes

bullshit

/u/jokerx29

9th: van Dijk is priority over Michael Keane

Let's just hope they get it done for once. Even if we overspend on Van Dijk at least we show some ambition and don't settle for the second best option again. We always have these 2-3 great players we are linked with (Keita, VVD this season) and we never get them.

The club did a half decent job in the last few years with transfers but it's still not good enough compared to teams like Napoli and Dortmund which are on a similar level and constantly do a better job during the transfer window.

/u/jokerx29

Don't [think] we'll get him specially as other top clubs are after him. We always tend to lose when going against City, United, Chelsea or Arsenal.

/u/supersayantyranitar

I'm happy the club are in for VVD - but tbh I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get him.

City and Chelsea are also after him and he'd start for them as well; all 3 clubs have world-class widely respected managers. But those two have won the league more recently; from his perspective, why choose us?

That's not to say we shouldn't try for him - let's see what happens. But I'm not going to start yelling "FSG out" if we don't get VVD. I just hope there's another potential target in mind between VVD and Keane.

/u/koptimism

17th: Southampton could turn down £60m for van Dijk claims chairman

Driving up the price of a player already? Thought these articles would at least wait till after the season had finished, any how, he will go for about £45mil, you wave that price in front of their chairman and he'll bite your hand off for it, just look at the price we got the other Southampton lads for

/u/andylamb06

It would be absolutely reckless for them to turn down such a windfall - nobody's buying it. Pretty amateur.

/u/bachelorpartydude

They could but they won't. £60M is a lot of money, almost the same amount we received for Suarez, there's no way they'd turn it down.

/u/themysteriousshadow

30th: Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and City locked in 4-way battle for Van Djik. Reds remain confident as Van Djik is attracted by the proposition of playing under Klopp

John Cross is a decent journo for Arsenal I believe, so the fact he is saying this despite not having any Liverpool affiliation is really positive. Also means that certain people can't claim this is an FSG "feel good" leak after losing out on Sessegnon.

/u/The_Backseatsman

Why would he choose us over Chelsea or City?

Not confident on this one.

/u/merge111

so it's a three horse race, sry can't take Arsenal seriously

/u/koassde

31st: The Times back page tomorrow says Man City hope to beat Liverpool and Chelsea to Van Dijk (Gary Jacob & Paul Joyce)

Fuck off City

/u/redditaccountplease

Jesus Christ. With the amount of money Pep is spending it'll be an actual disgrace if they don't get to the CL final at least, and honestly when you're spending that much money winning it becomes the minimum. Only little bit of sound news is that Southampton are holding out for £60m, which we are probably desperate enough to meet.

/u/The_Backseatsman

This is historically the point since FSG has taken over where we usually give up on a very ideal transfer and look a little lower on the list. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good or bad thing as in the past it has meant we've missed out on Dempsey and kept Henderson or missed out on Gotze and got Mane BUT it would be nice to see us buck the trend once and just pull the trigger on our preferred target and compete for transfers like we actually are one of the big boys. Which we technically are. We are in the top 10 most wealthy teams in the world apparently.

Edit: Having second thoughts about this to be fair after I looked closer and saw the 180k/week figure. And also that I'm in apparent agreement with Mr. Dean Coombes. Whoops. A bit torn now... xD

/u/thecurls23

June

4th: Liverpool Echo: Liverpool prepared to match Manchester City and Chelsea wage offers in bid to sign Van Dijk

If we somehow convince VVD, it'll be a huge coup. It'll show everyone we can compete with the richest teams in the league and win, in the market as well as on the pitch.

If its true we're matching the wages, I like the ambition from FSG. I don't think they can do much more with regards to this transfer.

Hope it happens, obviously.

/u/podpool3

this is a first and very refreshing

/u/jlfc5

Somehow, I don't believe this

/u/djb447

5th: Jurgen Klopp remains confident that Virgil van Dijk could move to Merseyside. (Paul Joyce)

Not getting my hopes up on this one

/u/LallanasHair

He's going to Tranmere isn't he?

/u/Plastic_Mouldsman

If we match or get close to City's wages I'm certain he'll come. I just hope this doesn't drag too much for us, wether we get him or not I don't want this to be another transfer saga.

/u/Masipoten

5th: Virgil van Dijk has told Jurgen Klopp he wants to join Liverpool this summer (Anfi*ldHQ)

http://ift.tt/2DqUui8

/u/HUGE_HOG

If this goes through, this will feel like the first signing where the "Klopp factor" had a major impact. No way VVD turns down Pep and Conte without the prospect of a steady supply of hugs from Jurgen.

/u/blablaman

This is a major, major coup. Looks like we beat City and Chelsea to a top signing. Unbelievable. This is huge!

/u/nickyv23

6th: Southampton are to report Liverpool to the Premier League over an illegal approach for Virgil van Dijk

Ffs why is it never simple

/u/hr71

They aren't keeping him and they're desperate for any reason why he can't move, this is clutching at the biggest of straws this.

Also, extremely likely that they knew about us talking to Van Dijk and that it wasn't just "wow we read this in the Echo"

/u/themysteriousshadow

Southampton seem to be sick of us, which is fair enough, but realistically they have no case here I reckon. Everyone taps up, no one has cared about it since the Ashley Cole thing. They can't really use what (admittedly reliable) journalists say as evidence of an approach, because we could just say their sources are wrong surely.

Also, what this has done is just guaranteed that the transfer is going to be nasty. Fair chance this is our last deal with Southampton. Transfer request just became a whole lot more likely

/u/theodorelesley

7th: Liverpool issue apology over approach to Virgil van Dijk

A top player wants to come to us instead of City and Chelsea, and we manage to fuck it up. What the actual fuck.

/u/[deleted]

We are a fucking joke in the transfer market. For some reason this fact always gets downvoted on here.

Chelsea/ City will get him now.

/u/lord2fattositahorse

Lmao June 7th and we've already missed out on our top CB and LB targets with the likelihood of us missing out on Salah and being laughed off over Keita looms.

How have we fucked up this badly? Jesus fucking Christ, Liverpool.

E: fuck knows how legit our agreeing personal terms with Salah was too, if we can't fucking get this right.

/u/The_Backseatsman (I knew I'd be thrown under the bus by you lot if I didn't put myself in so I jumped in front instead)

7th: van Dijk removes all Southampton links from his Twitter profile

Fucking great, now we're gonna have a bunch of delusional fans and socalled ITK's who are gonna claim he might be joining us afterall.

It isn't fucking happening. If it does, I will literally eat my own shit.

He's gonna go to City or Chelsea now, because the people at our club responsible for transfers are actually mentally handicapped. When it comes to transfers, we are a joke. Yes, I have initiated Operation Meltdown - not because we didn't get the player, but because of the way it all happened.

/u/yesnoidktbh

8th: Southampton have told VvD and his reps he will not be leaving the club this summer

Lolol transfer request incoming..

/u/nosdnomde

Fat chance of that, the way VVD and his agent see this is that Southampton just snatched a huge payday from them. No way they stand for it.

/u/JOHNNYBAB00N

17th: van Dijk with a LFC fan

Well the kiddo asked him if hes joining and he said "lets see". Probably kust keeping him happy but anything can happen

/u/kye2000

24th: Simon Jones - Liverpool still in frame for Virgil van Dijk despite Chelsea preparing £60m offer for Southampton defender

Already said it but if we stump up enough cash, Southampton won't care about the tapping up and he'll be ours. It's just whether or not we'll actually do it.

/u/dj4y_94

I just can't picture him in a Chelsea kit, it just isn't right and I can't see it happening. Only kit I see him in next season is ours. I'm still confident we'll sign and I'm sure things will pick up again once VVD is back from holiday. The minute that transfer request is handed in is the minute they crumble to our offer. Watch this space.

/u/harveylj

30th: van Dijk followed Paul Joyce and Carra on Twitter

Joyce interviewed VVD back in December. Him following Joyce is hardly gonna make Saints sell him to us.

Calm down...nothing to see here

/u/fuck_manu

July

15th: After Southampton manager Pellegrino said Van Dijk is not yet ready to feature in today's friendly, Virgil posts on Instagram saying it's great to be fully fit...

http://ift.tt/2dE4YSI

/u/intrinsic

This is reaching

/u/hesitantrice

21st: Liverpool-target Virgil van Dijk training alone after telling Saints manager Mauricio Pellegrino he wants to leave the club (From Daily Echo)

looks like it all hinged on the robertson deal for virgil

/u/firmmino

If we miss out on Keith, but end up with Van Dijk, Robertson, and Salah, while keeping hold of Coutinho that's still an absolute stellar summer.

/u/Hanomen

23rd: Liverpool will only move back in for Van Dijk this summer if Southampton make it clear they are willing to consider offers. (James Pearce)

It'll keep going till the deadline I reckon. Which will be painful

/u/kamkut1337

My feeling is we're getting van Dijk, but not Keita. Which is fine. I'd love Keita, but van Dijk is more important.

/u/syd_oc

24th: Virgil van Dijk left out of Southampton 25-man squad that will travel to France

Training alone as some sort of punishment is one thing, but leaving a top player out of a scheduled preseason tour or destination training camp is another situation altogether. This is reminiscent of what happened with Sakho right before he was sent into exile at Palace.

I really hope this means there will be some sort of resolution to this fucking saga soon.

/u/DoktorStrangelove

Honestly I respect that clubs want to keep their teams intact, just like I am against Liverpool selling Coutinho. But every club eventually loses its best players, it's just the nature of the game. If VVD has requested a move, I'd say for the fee quoted Saints should be happy. This deal should get done this week. Quote me on that..

/u/scouseandy

31st: Virgil van Dijk set for showdown talks at Southampton

Probably have an answer by this week tbh...

/u/thetchai

August

2nd: Liverpool’s interest in Southampton centre back Virgil van Dijk continues in the background with the player intent on doing all he can to force a move to Anfield. (Paul Joyce)

Klopp and Virgils love story is going to end beautifully

/u/vinpan2

Fuck Yeah! Time to track some planes!

/u/Saad_LFC

7th Virgil van Dijk submits transfer request

HOLY SHIT IT'S HAPPENING

/u/tagor99

I knew Klopp said that quote about our 5 defenders to make it look like we didn't need Van Dijk so that Van Dijk felt like he was the one who needed us. KLOPP IS THE DARK KNIGHT

/u/BadBoi117

God, he better not end up at Chelsea after all this.

/u/Poseidon94

8th: Southampton have responded to Van Dijk's transfer request by maintaining that the player is not for sale. (Paul Joyce)

Oh fuck them

/u/gimmetacos2

Don't see Arsenal getting him. It'll be between us and Chelsea imo.

/u/christopher199

World's shittiest Merry-go-round keeps spinning.

/u/friendly_edgar

10th: Van Dijk is the priority & it will go to the wire. Liverpool know they would pay a premium due to a deterioration in relations. (Paul Joyce)

Wait a minute ... we're interested in VVD?

/u/sifan69

the fact that there's an acceptance of the likelihood of a premium can only be a good thing, means we're happy enough to pay whatever it takes. think we'll get him tbh

/u/theodorelesley

26th: Mauricio Pellegrino, asked about Virgil Van Dijk's future. "I think on September 1st, Virgil will be here"

Saying I think doesn't sound too convincing tbh.

/u/ffsgeorge

28th: Club still looking to sign Virgil van Dijk before Thursday

We've been "looking to" sign him all summer. I wonder if those at the club see some new reason for optimism.

/u/redsoxfan2495

29th: VVD's Private Plane has left Bournemouth and is heading North.

imagine if Edwards actually completes deals for Lemar, VVD and Keita in the last week of the window. I would be beyond amazed.

/u/jokerx29

29th: Planes, Hype Trains and Automobiles - The Story So Far

No particular comments, just a fucking funny thread.

31st: All about Lemar & Van Dijk on deadline day. I'm told that further incomings for #LFC possible, not probable.- James Pearce

We're still being cautious little dudes, but I reckon we'll get them done

/u/theodorelesley

Setting ourselves up for a massive anticlimax :(

/u/NabyDecoKeita

31st: Van Dijk update: Zero contact between #saintsfc and Lpool and zero chance of a deal to Lpool or anywhere else #lfc

But yeah, let's not bother trying to find another CB just in case the club who said they aren't going to sell, don't sell...

Fucks sake.

/u/jmanvere

I am genuinely baffled as to why we ever thought we'd get him

And why there's been this much hype

With our own journalists saying we were interested? Fuck off. We sat at home and monitored him the whole summer.

/u/r0bski2

31st: Liverpool unlikely to land Thomas Lemar or Virgil Van Dijk before transfer deadline passes- Pearce

WHY HAVE WE NOT SIGNED A CB. We've had all summer and are a Joel Matip injury away from a crisis.

/u/CorneliusFudge10

£175Mill spending spree my ass

/u/ActiveBilal

31st: BREAKING: Virgil Van Dijk is definitely staying at Southampton this summer. (SkySports)

Oh fuck off

/u/KernelKarius

I am trying so fucking hard to be reasonable about this.. but just cannot!! Not bringing in a CB this summer is nothing short of a disgrace

/u/Kakabossi

September

11th: Virgil van Dijk move tipped to happen in January

don't

/u/nonamejackson

Can we save the wild speculation for uh... never? Or at least the transfer window.

/u/emre23

26th: Virgil van Dijk tips Liverpool to challenge for Champions League glory

"....after I join in January."

/u/HAAAAAAALP_

His answer was complete fluff and all he said was that us or City could go far.

/u/The_Backseatsman

October

3rd: Virgil van Dijk speaks out on failed Liverpool transfer - will consider move in January

1st of Jan: Liverpool are keeping tabs on the Van Dijk situation

1st of Feb : Van Dijk stays at Southampton after no formal bids were made

/u/ivc09

December

14th: Manchester City are ready to reignite their interest in Virgil van Dijk. Goal understands that Liverpool will also try to sign the 26-year-old during the January window, and it can now be revealed that City are seriously considering a rival offer.- Sam Lee (City's Reddy equivalent, very reliable)

Any other fucking team but City and I wouldn't be worried at all but he'll be pretty much guaranteed to start and also to win the league and maybe win the Champions league fucks sake.

/u/vaspap

Shit, If they are seriously in for him this time I don't think we'll be landing him. He has a chance to win big with city and be a part of one of the best teams in premier league history. Hopefully he still has the same desire to join us as he did in the summer though.

/u/vinpan2

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we had to sign another decent CB instead. It's a kick in the nuts if he does go city, but not the end of the world.

Surely he isn't the only CB that could slot into our back four?

I think a world class CDM is a lot more crucial for us at the moment.

/u/mwsherlock

16th: Liverpool 'will not pay' Southampton's lavish asking price for Virgil van Dijk

Pathetic if true. We spent fuck all the summer despite all the noises out of the club being that we have learnt our lesson are we're prepared to pay top dollar for our top targets of which Van dijk is top of the list.

We went without any centre back reinforcements in the summer because this was the only one we wanted, and now we're gonna claim we can't afford him and just give up.

Hopefully this is just a negotiating position. It'll be devastating if City bid as much as us and he chooses them, but understandable, but if we accept defeat at this stage you really have to question if they are any idea what they're doing

/u/theodorelesley

I don't want to be the team that pays seventy for an above average cb

/u/kensal78

FSG in soften the blow mode

/u/CAFarmer

23rd: Virgil van Dijk is seemingly not playing for Southampton today. Local journalist unsure if it is because of a transfer or injury.

I don't wanna be sounding disappointing, but if it's transfer ,looking more and more likely to City.

None of our journos are even talking about Van Dijk and City ones indicating they already made contact with Southampton.

/u/Kaniyan_Poongunran

Yep my only hope is we haven't leaked anything because, well, that didn't really work out well last time. We managed to keep things quiet with Keita, hopefully we did the same again here.

/u/The_Backseatsman

He's going to city, not us. We fucked up in the summer, our chance came and gone.

/u/Rozencranz

23rd: Southampton are believed to have agreed the basis of a deal with a club for VVD - Kevin Palmer

This deal sounds way too efficient to be us, congratulations City.

/u/xd3n1sxuk

congrats man city

lets go all in on one particular target during january and then on deadline day be told we'll try and get them in the summer

/u/theodorelesley

Fucks sake please let it not be City. Would be horrendous to have him start against us at Anfield after all that

/u/hesitantrice

23rd: Liverpool finally make a breakthrough in their pursuit of Virgil van Dijk - Kevin Palmer

I think we'll get him. Remember when Baby Keith was dead and buried, then we signed him for next year? As frustrating as our transfers can be at times, FSG did better this year with some of the big names (Salah and Naby to be precise). They are learning, and Virgil drama aside - which could have been his agent lying about permission from soton as the club said - they seem to get shit done these days.

/u/scorgie

The source is the Sunday World (crappy Irish tabloid), put your Dijks away lads.

/u/YoullNeverMemeAlone

25th: Telegraph: Man City closing in on £60m deal for Virgil van Dijk

Christmas is supposed to be a day for GOOD news, shit

/u/WillDaThrilll13

hahahaendmysufferinghahahaha

/u/HeCalledMeSubaru

"Van Dijk would initially come in as third choice centre half behind Stones and Nicolas Otamendi should City pull off a deal. (@TelegraphDucker)"

WHY WOULD HE BE 3RD CHOICE THERE WHEN HE CAN BE 1ST CHOICE HERE

/u/vaspap

27th: Liverpool agree world-record £75m deal for Virgil van Dijk

GET THE VAN

/u/Mo_Salah

That is a fucking statement of intent. Klopp was not fucking around, he wanted VVD and it looks like he got him.

/u/Calmdownplease

27th: Liverpool announce the signing of Virgil van Dijk

what tier is liverpoolfc official website

/u/walkinm

http://ift.tt/2ChKxUI

/u/_cumblast_

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

/u/lfcfan123

What a fucking saga.

Submitted December 28, 2017 at 01:17PM by The_Backseatsman via reddit http://ift.tt/2DpMIVI

#IFTTT #reddit #liverpoolfc #liverpool fc #lfc #ynwa

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