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mbtiofwhys · 3 years

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We're sorry if this article seemed misleading to you, our goal was just to address the most common stereotypes around extroversion and sort of debunk them. We for one often fight against stereotypes in typing, and we in no way wanted to promote them as something true - yes there's some truth deep down, but most of the time stereotypes are just harmful misconceptions. We've updated the title of this article to be more clear about our intentions, and if you find something other in it that seems to in any way support or promote stereotypes please let us know!

Extroversion Stereotypes

Premise

First, we would like to clarify what extroversion and introversion are, since there aren’t only stereotypes, but also common myths and misconceptions about those concepts.

Introversion and extroversion aren’t two parts of the same dichotomy, since they express opposite poles of a continuum. So, it isn’t a mere binary choice between extroversion and introversion but sadly, the most popular tests emphasize this approach. What does this mean? Well, even if you are an Introvert, you can be more or less inclined to recharge turning your focus inward. Same goes, vice-versa, for Extroverts. Extroverts will always direct their energies more outward than inward, but there’ll still be fluctuations between them. On the opposite, this is also true for Introverts.

Extroversion and introversion are tied to chemicals in our brain and how people react differently to neurotransmitters, especially dopamine. (You can read more about this here and here). What are the consequences of this phenomenon? Well, simply put, you are born an Extrovert or an Introvert and you can’t change it (we’ll refer to the continuum using the dichotomy to exemplify the article, but the premise we made above remains valid).

Some people call themselves ‘Ambiverts’. We know how labels may help to better understand oneself, but this concept may be very misleading, since it potentially confuses people regarding what the continuum is. Extroversion and Introversion are preferences: we all can do both, but the point is looking at what we prefer to do, what comes most easily, what we like to direct our energy toward, versus what drains our energy. This is especially true since some Introverts think they’re ambivert due to their good social skills, while Extroverts may call themselves ‘Ambiverts’ since they also need alone time (even if not the same amount as Introverts). ‘Ambiversion’ is still, in our opinion, incorrect and those examples don’t take into account what we said above: it’s more an inclination than a dichotomy.

Another common misconception is about shyness. We can see how Introverts may be more prone to be shy people with less social skills than Extroverts, but this is something true in younger age and it’s still more tied to one’s personality and life experiences, rather than on where a person’s focus is. So, even Extroverts may be shy and, vice-versa, not all Introverts panics in a conversation.

Stereotypes

Extroverts are loud and noisy/the life of the party

Maybe this is more true for Se dom rather than other extroverts, but it still remains a stereotype. While it might be more common for Extroverts to enjoy and participate in social situations, this doesn’t mean they necessarily love to party every week. Extroverts have traits in common, but beyond that there are functions and types to consider. What does the social situation in question have to offer? Did the person choose to take part, or have they been forced? Not to forget that personal tastes and preferences come into play, and they aren’t necessarily linked to type.

Extroverts always like to be engaged in conversations/activities

Even if they gain energy through interacting with the world and people, Extroverts need time alone and can’t always be engaged with external stimuli. It’s often a matter of how pleasant the activity is, or how the person is feeling, and so on. It’s necessary to remember that people exist behind the four letters, and people might have whatever reason for wanting to stay alone in that moment, be them I or E.

Extroverts are always confident people

Confidence, self-esteem and shyness aren’t related to introversion and extroversion. Since Extroverts are more prone to explore and interact with the outer world, they might be more practiced and fluent when it comes to social situations, or problem-solving, but this doesn’t mean an Extrovert can’t be shy or that they don’t want to be under the spotlight.

All extroverts like small talk

Again, this isn’t necessarily true. Extroverts and Introverts are on a continuum that indicates where people focus their cognition and from what they gain energy, but Introverts aren’t automatically more prone to deep talks and introspection and Extroverts aren’t less aware of their inner world. And besides, is there really any person who enjoys small talks?

Extroverts are superficial

Since the E/I ratio is close to a 50/50, this would imply that half of the human population is superficial. Now it doesn’t sound so plausible, right? We must also define what ‘superficiality’ is to address the issue properly. You’ve probably understood what we mean: superficiality is a vague and often subjective concept and we don’t recommend using it regarding MBTI and psychological types. E/I refer to where people direct their energies and don’t imply any sort of judgment.

Extroverts prefer casual meetups rather than developing close bonds

It could be said that there’s a slight preference for Extroverts toward casual meetup, on average. However, people build lots of bonds in their life and, even if Introverts focus their attention on less people and more on quality time than average, they’ll still have acquaintances and less deeper bonds.

#mbti #extroversion #stereotypes #mbtiofwhys

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mbtiofwhys · 3 years

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Hi anon here!

So i saw ur blog and i love how detailed ur analysis are!

You typed griffith from berserk as intj while most people on personal mbti database typed him as entj with intj votes few points away lol. Do u think it's impossible for ni doms to have developed inferior se? Most people reasoned that because he fights well he has tertiary se while as for inferior fi, he couldnt come to terms with his feelings so he screwed charlotte to repress fi feelings.Im afraid i might be basing this on stereotypes .i could see the inferior se in that behavior as well.

I see why you tagged him as an ni dom because of his vision and how he can read people. However, during analysis did u als consider him as an infj? Fe because he can "read " the emotions of other and his "care" for the members of the band of the hawk as well as guiding them to prosperity. What do u think? Thanks :)

Hi! Thanks for the interesting question! While typing Griffith, I was considering both ENTJ and INTJ for the same reasons you stated in your question. On paper, I can see how tertiary Se suits him better, at the same time I find his Ni way more developed than any other function. So, even if it implies an inferior Se, I chose INTJ over ENTJ. Obviously, this analysis may still be flawed, since MBTI is a broad and complex subject. However, I think Griffith uses Te to support his main goal, rather than just being mainly focused on Te efficiency. I also find inferior Se plausible because Griffith has a balanced stack. An inferior function can be used properly even if it’s in the last position of the stack, basically. Regarding Griffith as an INFJ, I admit that I didn’t considered the option. I think that Griffith has the “means justify the end” approach and a rational way to solve problems, all tied to high Te. At the same time, Fe would imply Ti and I can’t find proper evidences of it in his stack. As I stated above, this was my opinion about your interesting question, so I’m not stating that Griffith must be INTJ. That being said, I hope you’ll find my point of view helpful to find your answers. Thanks again for the ask! - INFJ mod.

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Debunking Introversion Stereotypes

There should be some premise to be made about the E/I dichotomy, but we already talked about it in our Extroversion article, so feel free to read that first if you want a general introduction!

Introverts are shy

Shyness isn’t tied to introversion. As we stated in our previous article, introversion and extroversion are related to chemicals and neurotransmitters in our brain, while shyness is more about self-perception in social situations and personal factors. Shy people usually lack confidence in themselves, fear judgment and may avoid human interactions. Those are traits unrelated to how a person prefers to focus their energies: inwardly or outwardly. Shyness, like any underdeveloped social skill, is also more common in younger people rather than adults, since more mature and experienced people hopefully hone their ability to interact and bond in bigger or smaller groups.

Introverts are antisocial/dislike people

Being more easily stimulated and drained by social events and human interactions means that Introverts use up energies faster than Extroverts, but they don’t dislike people as a whole. The stereotype of the grumpy introvert that hates people and lives a life of hermitage is just a cliché delivered by the media and memes. Introverts may struggle finding a balance between social interactions and alone time because they actually care for other people. Similarly to shyness, being antisocial is more a personal factor and its roots may be different from person to person.

All Introverts are quiet

This may be true on average, since introversion is a preference and Introverts tend to prefer peaceful and quiet activities rather than noisy ones, but remember that this is a continuum and not a dichotomy. So, not all Introverts dislike loud crowds and they may still attend those kinds of activities once in a while. Just like how Extroverts may still prefer quiet activities and alone times every now and then, Introverts are still able to be the life of the party or talkative. The only difference is how long this will last: Introverts will lose their social energies more easily than Extroverts, shutting down faster.

Introverts hate parties or big social events

As we stated above this is probably a trend, but not an absolute truth. It’s often a matter of frequency: for some Introverts it’s ok to attend a big, crowded social event sometimes, but then they’ll need their amount of alone time. Personally, as an introvert (INFJ mod here), I find this stereotype to be generally true, but I’m always excited if those events are related to my passions (like videogames or conventions). At the same time I have to admit that the stereotypical social events (with loud music, lots of strangers and small talk) aren’t something I’m willing to attend, normally, because they usually overstimulate me and I don’t find them interesting (but this, again, is my personal take, so take it with a grain of salt.)

Introverts have zero social skills

We can understand why this stereotype is so strong in our society: since Introverts usually spend less time with people than Extroverts and prefer alone time, they may develop less social skills on average. At the same time, we think this is true especially with younger people (and this may apply to Extroverts too.) Social skills are gained through processes of socialization in contexts like family, school, groups of friends and so on. Introverts may have less opportunities to improve those skills, but they can still do it and the same goes for Extroverts. It all depends on broader personal factors and the context in which one lives.

Introverts need to become more ‘extrovert’ to have more fun

This is probably the most dangerous stereotype of this list. At this point it should be clear how you can’t choose if and how you are an introvert or an extrovert. But extroversion is usually what is considered the ‘norm’, at least in western societies and, even if it’s essential for us as human beings to socialize, make mistakes and live life, Introverts can’t control how sensitive to people and social interactions they are. So, even if we aren’t clearly saying it’s completely ok to isolate oneself to the world, we hope to see a ‘normalization’ of introversion, as a personal trait rather than something tied to shyness, poor social skills or a poor way to live life. Introverts, as MBTI teaches us, must develop their auxiliary extroverted function in order to aid their dominant one, otherwise they may fall into loops. However, there’s a balance between being open to the world and other people, and honoring one’s own needs. Introverts don’t choose to require proper alone time to recharge and this doesn’t stop them to be sociable and interested in other people.

#mbti #myers briggs #PersonalityTypes #Psychological Types #typology #stereotypes #personality type #personality theory #mbti personality #debunking #introspection #introversion #extroversion #extrovert #mbti of whys

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Debunking Extroversion Stereotypes

Premise

First, we would like to clarify what extroversion and introversion are, since there aren’t only stereotypes, but also common myths and misconceptions about those concepts.

Stereotypes

Extroverts are loud and noisy/the life of the party

Extroverts always like to be engaged in conversations/activities

Extroverts are always confident people

All extroverts like small talk

Extroverts are superficial

Extroverts prefer casual meetups rather than developing close bonds

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Some serious talk about MBTI

Debunking common myths and critics while understanding real flaws and how to move past them

Disclaimer

Our vision regarding the use of MBTI, and typology in general, is profoundly different from what the Foundation promotes and advertises;

Our knowledge comes either from directly studying Jung’s works or from browsing more grassroots sources, such as blogs here on Tumblr or discussions on Reddit;

We opened this blog for fun because we’re passionate about typology and its application to both introspection and fictional works analysis;

We don’t intend to turn down every form of criticism, but without the pretense to be 100% correct, we rather wish to see what are real weak points and what may be legit observations if not born from a misunderstanding of the system;

This is our personal view and opinion on MBTI, feel free to join the debate!

Main concerns

Not scientifically sound

Not supported by the psychology academic field / It’s just pseudo-science It’s true that typology can’t be proven by the current scientific method - it’s too much of a subjective topic. There’s a reason why both Freud’s and Jung’s works are studied as the beginning of psychoanalysis but their practice isn’t used by modern psychology anymore. But admitting that MBTI isn’t scientifically sound doesn’t mean it’s entirely unreliable. The E/I dichotomy is, for example, something based on our chemicals and neurotransmitters in the brain, so it has a solid basis and it may be helpful outside the MBTI context. (source: 1, 2) The key point, we believe, is shifting the view: we prefer not to consider the Indicator as a pure psychological tool, rather a more philosophical one. MBTI is, at least for us mods, a method: we always try to improve our understanding of the subject, but it isn’t restricted to the theoretical field, since we also apply it in typing fictional characters. So, there’s a theoretical basis to know and personal study is encouraged, but it’s definitely nothing scientific as we intend it nowadays.

Tests aren’t accurate

We know - we talked about it here. Approaching MBTI solely by tests generates huge misunderstandings about what typology is really about. More specifically:

You can get different results by retaking the test It’s due to the flawed essence of a test assessing personality traits, and it’s exacerbated by tests having a general focus more on behavior than cognition. This is usually about generic questions that may be too vague since online tests try to be relatable to a large set of people from different countries and cultures.

Forer effect/ vague descriptions We know about the Forer effect and we’ve read the profiles used in his experiments: they’re nothing like detailed, in-depth profile and analysis of each type, or even basic ones, if done properly. Take a look at mbtinotes for an example of how different (if not opposite) descriptions are for different (or opposite) types. Even in a basic form, they’re not vague enough for a person to relate to more than three or four of them at most. So, it’s true that MBTI has, in some cases, a ‘pop’ approach aimed to be understandable and clear for everyone, and this is counterproductive in the end. But the flaw lays in how it is conveyed: inaccurate tests don’t invalidate the method as a whole.

It’s just a quiz/ it’s just like horoscopes The tests that bloom through the internet sadly validate the first point, as the majority of people answer the questions, read the type description, and then forget about it. But we firmly believe it’s nothing like the horoscopes. MBTI, if approached seriously, doesn’t have the pretense of predicting the future or explaining a person’s whole life, since it isn’t even an excuse for someone’s behaviors. It is true that many topics can be found about relationship pairs and career advice, but we tend to be skeptical towards those, and it’s not an approach we believe fit our vision of MBTI as a tool for self reflection. Type theory can give some insights on relationship dynamics in general (not only romantic ones) but this doesn’t mean it can predict the future or something along those lines.

Types are just stereotypes

They could be, depending on the interpretation. People are complex, they’re made of experiences, upbringing, hobbies, and so much more - personality is nothing more than a trait of someone’s individuality. One could say that people are not their type, rather they are somehow represented by it.

Putting something complex like personality into boxes People don’t know about cognitive functions based on Jung’s studies. Typology isn’t concerned about such things as hobbies or upbringing because - following Jung’s approach, at least - cognitive functions are innate and universal and determine one’s cognition. Meaning they can explain what information we prefer to look at, how we gather data, what we weight in making decisions. It’s all about the process - but the outcome and the individuality of a person, that’s on each one of us. This is also why tests are often inaccurate: they make examples based on careers, hobbies, and behaviors, leading MBTI enthusiasts to approach the subject as something more superficial than it actually is. However, the theory has its valid points, even if not always approved by academics, but it’s usually studied by a minority of people since (and it’s understandable, we aren’t judging) it requires time and effort to go deeper into the subject.

16 types are too few The four letters have meaning. Dichotomies exist, but they only work on a superficial level. In reality, the four functions are rather a continuum: they develop throughout a person’s entire life and work in pairs, three at a time, or even all fours together. The whole system is much more complex than people give it credit for by merely taking a test. And anyway, a person is much more than just their four letters. As we stated above it’s ok to stop on a more superficial level, but this mustn’t be used as an excuse to forget about cognitive functions and how they describe in a more detailed way how people gather and use information through cognitive patterns.

Personality changes over time It does because we change. But this doesn’t affect functions. What people call ‘change’ is tied to growing into a (hopefully) better person as life goes on, learning from one’s own mistakes, and thus becoming a more aware and balanced individual. However, the way in which a person gathers data and uses them doesn’t change, it’s more a process about enhancing our strengths and polishing our weaknesses. This, either, doesn’t mean a person’s fate is dictated by which functions they possess: this is a rather unhealthy approach to typology. Excluding circumstantial factors that sadly play a role in the real world (wealth, gender, geographic origin, and so on), idealistically a person could do everything in his life, despite type and whatnot. Maybe some things will be more difficult, or easier, but since we are more than our type, other factors come into play: how we’ve been raised, what we like, what ideals we have, who we are, globally, as a person. The list goes on.

MBTI is a form of discrimination

This can be true - but not for us. MBTI is a tool: what you do with it, it’s on your own. Stating that sadly, there are people who use MBTI as a form of discrimination doesn’t invalidate the subject.

Used in corporate settings, but not by psychologists We personally disapprove and discourage the use of MBTI to dictate people’s work and life. We don’t like how the Foundation promotes it for commercial purposes exactly because it is not a scientific nor a statistical tool. A person is more than four letters. Choosing a career based on an (often) inaccurate test is not advised, but understanding how our own cognition works may be useful to become a better person. Again, behaviors aren’t cognition.

Our personal dos and don’ts with MBTI

Take it as a tool to promote introspection and self-reflection, but only after a proper study of the subject. We don’t recommend to use MBTI as a theory to dictate one’s career, but it’s still an interesting way to better understand oneself. Without falling into confirmation biases, MBTI may be a great way to become more aware of one’s own qualities and flaws, learning how to live in a more healthy and functional way.

Use it as a framework to dissect fictional works (very satisfying!)

Use it for meme material. Yes, memes have great potential and may light up your day!

Think of it as a pair of lenses: you can see reality through it and gain some nice insights but in the end, reality will always be so much more than what you can experience by only using a single pair of lenses.

Don’t

Use it as a replacement for professional help - both physically and mentally. Mental illnesses are unrelated to MBTI, so using the subject to validate them or deal with them may be harmful. MBTI is a great tool to better understand one’s strengths and weaknesses, not a replacement for proper treatment. There is no shame in being in need of help and we encourage you to seek it if necessary.

Use it to discriminate against other individuals - cognition doesn’t know gender, wealth, ethnicity, or education. There isn’t a better type, even if the community sometimes romanticizes certain ones. You are valid, no matter what a test says about you or what the community thinks.

Try to gain profit from it.

Use it to justify whatever behavior or decision you make in your life. Cognitive functions may help you to discover your patterns and how you act, but they can’t dictate what you can or can’t do.

Thank you for reading this article until the end. All of this is our personal view on the subject, so further discussion and contributions are encouraged and appreciated! If you are a beginner and wish to delve deeper into the subject, we’re not an educational blog, perperly, but here you can find a quick beginner’s guide.

Sources: Addressing typology and criticism; On the book ‘Personality Brokers’; The test is meaningless; How accurate is the test?; The test is unscentific; A popular but flawed understanding of personality.

#mbti #myers briggs #PersonalityTypes #Psychological Types #typology #criticism #stereotypes #articles #personality test #personality type #Personality Theory #mbti personality #debunking #introspection

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Hello! Ive seen your posts before and may i ask are you familiar with legend of the galactic heroes anime? If so what do you think of reinhards type? Ive seen hes typed mostly as entj but do you agree? Thanks a bunch

Hi, thanks for writing us! Unfortunately neither of us mods has already seen the show, so we can't say if this type suits the character properly. But we appreciate your request, feel free to ask more if you’ll ever need :) - INFJ mod

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Nanachi

INFP

Functional order: Fi - Ne - Si - Te

Disclaimer

We initially wrote this article addressing Nanachi with she/her pronouns due to an old/incorrect translation that was available when we first watched the show. We now corrected the article with neutral pronouns, as intended by the author and the official manga translator. Thanks for pointing this out!

Spoiler warning

This article will cover Nanachi’s analysis with spoilers and references from the first anime season. We’ll avoid talking about the manga, so if you haven’t read that yet, this article is safe for you!

Premise

Browsing through the net, we found that Nanachi is mainly typed as INTP. We couldn’t find any in-depth analysis though, so if you too think INTP is a better match, please tell us why - we’ll gladly listen! We disagree with INTP for Nanachi, because breaking down the four letters, it means: Ti, Ne, Si, and Fe. The Ti-Fe axis is what bothers us the most since cognitively speaking there aren’t many signs of it in the anime - although we can understand why, only looking at behaviors, people may think so. Introverted Thinking means a person tends to filter reality through their own personal logic, breaking inputs apart and creating systems to understand the world in its most general aspects. Nanachi doesn’t show signs of such a thought process, they much rather act and care about what they, personally, value the most. Nanachi can seem quite the practical type, but in reality, they’re just confident in their fields of expertise and can react quite emotionally in unknown situations - a side that’s shown more in the later chapters of the manga.

So, we don’t think INTP is a match for them, and we’ll proceed to explain why INFP suits better in our opinion.

Judging Functional Axis

Introverted Feeling (Fi) / Extroverted Thinking (Te)

One of the key points of Nanachi’s character, and what led us to INFP, is that they’re more willing to risk the more they care on a personal level. It’s something that goes a bit beyond the classic ‘Fi fights for what’s right to it’ and veers into how Fi (usually) approaches the experiences of other people. While Fe is about reading the mood and absorbing the emotional state of one’s surroundings, Fi is more about how a person feels about what’s going on outside, and if they can or cannot relate with it.

This is pretty clear right after Nanachi’s appearance in episode 10: when asked why they intervened to save Riko and Reg despite ignoring them at first, they answered: “because you reminded me of myself.” Seeing Reg so desperate and panicked of losing Riko hit a sore spot in Nanachi’s past, as they knew far too well how he was feeling. So, they purposefully stepped out of their way to help the kids, exposing their identity (something they never do because it’s dangerous.)

Even the resentment Nanachi holds against Bondrewd isn’t mere disapproval of his actions but has also a lot to do with what he’d done to Mitty, and how angry Nanachi feels because his experiments are not only immoral, but they wronged Nanachi on a personal level.

It may be difficult to see their inferior Te since Nanachi appears later on and the show focuses more on Riko and Reg, still, Nanachi’s generally disorganized and lacks the problem-solving skills tied to high Te. Similar to what we said about dominant Ti, they surely act confidently in the medical field, but when things get rough they aren’t able to react properly like Riko would do due to her dominant Se.

Perceiving Functional Axis

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) / Introverted Sensing (Si)

Given how little Nanachi shows during the first season of the anime, we have to proceed a bit by process of elimination. If Fi is the dominant function, this means they could have either Se-Ni or Ne-Si in the perceiving axis.

Se-Ni would imply a certain degree of proactiveness, an inclination toward action, and an (albeit slight) certain focus on a single, long term goal that is meaningful to their life. It could be argued that this is what freeing and killing Mitty represents, but in reality, the show addresses how Nanachi never thought about life after Mitty’s eventual death, and this is why they’re so reluctant to join Riko and Reg in their journey at first. The bond with Mitty is unrelated to MBTI and Nanachi’s actions are mostly caused by natural human reactions, at the same time dominant Fi appears in the way they made those choices, on a cognitive level.

Mitty herself, as treated by the show (and the manga later on, but this is heavy spoiler territory) is something much more tied with Nanachi’s past than with future aspirations. And given both how Nanachi has a tight bond with their past (using it as a source of experience to make decisions,) and how they’re highly methodical in their approach to save Mitty by studying medicine and subjects alike, we pointed toward tert Si more than tert Ni.

#madeinabyss #made in abyss #nanachi #mbti #mbtiofwhys #infp #fi dom #ne aux #si tert #te inf #chtype:infp #chtype:nanachi #typology #fictional characters #character analysis #anime #anime characters #meta post

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Riko

ESTP

Functional order: Se - Ti - Fe - Ni

Spoiler warning

This article will cover Riko’s analysis with spoilers and references from the first anime season. We’ll avoid talking about the manga, so if you haven’t read that yet, this article is safe for you!

Perceiving Functional Axis

Extroverted Sensing (Se) / Introverted Intuition (Ni)

Riko is a textbook Se dom, as many anime protagonists are. First and foremost, she shows the typical thought process of a high Se user: she takes action before thinking about the consequences, often to a point where she’s reckless and risks her life. A clear example of this is her approach with the Orb Piercer since she clearly didn’t evaluate the situation, leaving her and Reg in danger.

Why does this duo always find itself in perilous contexts? Because Reg can’t properly react as an INFJ with an underdeveloped Se and, regarding Riko, because she’s a young ESTP with an exuberant Se. So, Riko leads them to risks and Reg tries to somehow save them by using his unknown powers in extreme attempts that often lead to more troubles.

Riko is proactive: her mother could be alive, deep in the Abyss? Time to delve its secrets, even if they may kill you. She has the typical issues related to Se in higher positions in the stack, like being impulsive and unaware of the implication of her actions.

However, Riko also shows general and positive traits associated with high Se: she prefers to learn by doing, thus we can see her strong desire to visit the Abyss rather than scheming and studying the layers and their dangers. Riko is an obvious P, she enjoys the freedom of improvisation and doesn’t need routines and plans to feel safe and prepared. She rather adapts to new situations, quickly developing a solution that makes sense (using her auxiliary Ti), directly facing the issue.

Riko’s Se is balanced by an underdeveloped inferior Ni. This isn’t surprising, since she’s a pre-teen, and inferior functions are addressed later on in life. However, generally speaking, it’s undeniable how narrow her view is. As we stated above, Riko hasn’t a plan to follow or even a guideline to traverse the Abyss with: she simply wants to find her mother, and every action she makes blindly conforms to this impulsive desire.

At the same time, her Ni is still present in one particular aspect. Riko has one, clear goal in mind and she dedicates her life to its realization. She hasn’t any idea of how her life will be after this journey, what she really wants long-term. Her Ni is present to a point where she focuses on a single task/project/dream, but it’s underdeveloped, causing her to live without a clear understanding of her potential. This is not properly a flaw though, because Riko is still very young and more awareness from a child her age would only be unrealistic.

Judging Functional Axis

Introverted Thinking (Ti) / Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

Riko has a well-developed judging axis, considering she’s a pre-teen.

First, there’s her Ti. Riko has a clear approach to knowledge: she takes notes about every little detail she encounters in the Abyss, draws sketches, and then she organizes them in a notebook. So, Riko has her personal, subjective way to evaluate and explore reality. All those stored information are used as a way to understand her surroundings, making sense of the Abyss. She still remains a Se dom, so her first thought process is usually about simple and practical action to solve problems. However, Riko’s Ti is developed to a point where it’s able to aid her in a concrete way.

Then, there’s her Fe. There’s a matter we would like to point out here, about feeling functions. Riko can easily be confused for an ESFP, since she may give the idea of a high Fi user. We think that this stems from her strong will towards finding her mother: this isn’t a behavior strictly tied to this function, but rather a natural, human reaction. Riko shows her Se by instantly wanting to reach her deep in the Abyss, however, there aren’t signs of auxiliary Fi in this spontaneous reaction, as it’s not something that has to do with a sense of duty, something she thinks it’s right, or a step she needs to take in order to find her true self. Moreover, her Ti it’s pretty clear, so Fe in a tertiary position it’s implied. So, where can we pinpoint this?

Well, Riko is more aware of the social implication of her action than it may seem. She wants to find her mother not only because she deeply cares about her, but also as a way to be respected by the city of Orth and its inhabitants. Riko, in fact, desires to be acknowledged for her action and wishes for her journey to become legendary as her mother’s. Those are all common Fe traits. Obviously, Fe isn’t only about gaining approval, but when it manifests in this way, as a desire for recognition, (especially in younger Fe user) it’s usually a sign of her presence in some position of the stack.

We would like to reaffirm how Riko also shows healthy and positive traits of a Fe user, like her awareness of the emotional well-being of the environment. This is surprising especially considering how young she is. She has a clear understanding of social norms and she respects them, even if she’s a pre-teen, reckless Se dom - to the point where she often mediates in conflicts and tends to take by heart the general happiness of the people she meets over her own.

#madeinabyss #made in abyss #riko #mbti #mbtiofwhys #estp #se dom #ti aux #fe tert #ni inf #chtype:estp #chtype:riko #typology #fictional characters #character analysis #anime #anime characters #meta post

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Reg

INFJ

Functional order: Ni - Fe - Ti - Se

Spoiler warning

This article will cover Reg analysis with spoilers and references from the first anime season. We’ll avoid talking about the manga, so if you haven’t read that yet, this article is safe for you!

Perceiving Functional Axis

Introverted Intuition (Ni) / Extroverted Sensing (Se)

Even if Reg’s true nature is still unknown, no one is willing to discover what lies behind it (besides Riko, but the topic is a little more complicated than that.) Reg, however, deeply cares about his identity. This needs a clarification first: talking about identity doesn’t always imply high Fi. Why? Because Reg isn’t trying to unravel what he truly is as a way to pinpoint his sense of self, he’s rather searching for meaning. This is a perceiving, abstract method aimed to gather information and patterns, merging them together in a subjective interpretation of reality. Then, Ni looks at it as a guideline, strategizing a realistic course of action to take in order to reach a meaningful goal.

Reg is surely young (if we can talk about age referring to what seems a robotic being), affected by amnesia and unsure about who or what he really is, so it’s reasonable to see only the first stages of Ni development: Reg is still trying to figure out his true nature and, even if he’s a J, he seems open to new possibilities and interpretations, since he knows little about the Abyss, its treasures and secrets, but is willing to learn more and more.

Reg, as a young Ni dom, shows some of its negative traits: he possesses a daydreamer attitude, not in a stereotypical way, but rather as a general approach to his and Riko’s journey: Reg is constantly quiet, silent and he clearly needs Riko’s proactiveness (which is often recklessness, too) to proceed.

Those elements are all tied to his inferior Se: Reg is unable to react quickly to problems, issues and dangerous beings that he and Riko face traversing the Abyss - Ozen clearly points this out, and the story shows it in more than one situation. When Reg takes action he either acts too late, causing troubles, or he makes mistakes far worse than mere inaction (for example in the brawl with Ozen, or against the Orb Piercer). We don’t know yet how Reg’s Se works with his Ni in an abstract evaluation of a pattern, but it’s clear how this function is still underdeveloped. This is also one of the reasons behind Reg and Riko’s chemistry: Reg’s inferior Se balances Riko’s dominant one by being more cautious and taking time to plan, and vice-versa.

Judging Functional Axis

Extroverted Feeling (Fe) / Introverted Thinking (Ti)

Reg has a well developed auxiliary Fe: when he meets Riko and her friends he quickly becomes part of the group and it’s appreciated by all of its members. Reg understands the rules behind social interaction and, even if he still can’t bind them as he wants (something even more mature high Fe users can’t do properly), he’s still able to respect them. So, despite not even being a human, Reg instinctively learns social norms and how they apply in different contexts. This is also true for the emotional environment: Reg easily blends in groups, he respects the status quo and knows well what’s going on.

Auxiliary Fe implies an external focus on people’s emotions and this, in younger INFJs, may lead to a lack of sense of self. This is a treacherous topic since Reg’s identity issues are more complicated than that: his true nature is unknown and this goes far behind the discovery of one’s true self. However, Reg shows signs of high Fe: he never takes action going against the group or his friends/allies, he prefers to respect social rules rather than breaking them and he adapts to the emotional environment.

Reg’s Fe is balanced by its tertiary Ti. Even if he may not be human, Reg appears and acts like a child, so it’s reasonable to see a Ti less obvious than Riko’s one, who’s an ESTP.

Reg shows signs of Ti regarding his attitude towards patterns and ideas: he always tries to put them together in a way he finds logical and coherent but, as a young INFJ with an underdeveloped Ti, he’s more prone to overthinking and losing contact with reality while trying to match all of those elements in the abstract perception of his dominant Ni.

On a final note, we want to reaffirm how Reg’s analysis must take into account his hidden and probably not human nature at first, and then how he still is, function-wise, an INFJ if we consider him as a being with the cognition of a child/pre-teen.

#madeinabyss #made in abyss #reg #mbti #mbtiofwhys #infj #ni dom #fe aux #ti tert #se inf #chtype:infj #chtype:reg #typology #fictional characters #character analysis #anime #anime characters #meta post

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Why your favorite anime protagonist is ESFP

Premise

Anime and manga offer a variety of stories, archetypes, and characters, and they aren’t just the sum of some stereotypes and clichés. However, we also like to analyze this topic to see if there may be MBTI-related elements to discuss.

So, our purpose is to dissect the typical anime and manga protagonist, which often is, especially in shonen works, an ESFP. Thus, we’ll use MBTI as a tool to see how common archetypes or clichés are tied to the ESFP personality or, at least, the stereotyped ESFP. We always say that cognition must be separated from behaviors, so we’re aware of the risk involved in an article like this. This is why, on a final note, we want to reaffirm how not all ESFPs (especially in real life) are impulsive, reckless, or excessively idealistic. At the same time, we find it intriguing to see correlations between a particular personality type and common tropes related to anime and manga.

The role of protagonists

As we said above, anime protagonists usually share common traits that can be summarized in the xSFP MBTI types, especially the ESFP one. It’s interesting to notice how those elements are usually found in shonen works since they target a young audience. Why are those protagonists often represented by the ESFP type? And why does this happen mostly in battle shonen?

These characters tend to be quite simple (with some exceptions we’ll address later), and this isn’t a bad thing since this way, it’s often easy to sympathize with them, their cause, and their ideals. They’re the protagonists of stories aimed at younger people, so it’s crucial for them to be understandable (remember: shonen is a target, not a genre.) They usually fall in the ‘kind-hearted’ and ‘overly idealistic’ tropes, they easily befriend people and gain lots of allies gathered in a group, a crew, a school class, or something on those lines. This is often caused by the protagonist’s will to protect the weak. At the same time, the typical shonen protagonist possesses a strong desire to win and, when he loses a competition (usually against their rival) they’ll train to become stronger, overcoming their weaknesses and thus growing more mature and conscious.

Cognitive functions and protagonists

Going deeper, we can see how ESFP’s cognitive functions work together following common shonen tropes.

As a Se dom, an ESFP protagonist usually shows proactiveness and impulsivity. Those traits lead to situations where they must train not only to improve their abilities but also as a way to improve their self-control, thus becoming more cautious.

ESFP is a perfect personality type for the main character since it allows them to take risks, make mistakes, and learn by them. Also, stories revolve around conflict and need lots of unexpected events to progress and create anticipation and curiosity in the audience. Therefore, a Se dom protagonist that is prone to action and to recklessly challenge themself is a simple and functional way to tell a story.

Fi aux usually implies strong ideals to follow, so it’s easier to sympathize with those characters (if those ideals are positive and not excessively ordinary or dull). This isn’t a rule, yet at the same time, it isn’t difficult to understand why a strong-willed protagonist often catches the audience’s attention, thus creating an emotional connection.

Being a P usually implies a more adaptable approach to problems than the one used by Js. Since shonen works are often dynamic and fast-paced, a character who takes action by blindly following his heart allows the story to progress quickly and offers great opportunities for conflict and growth.

The root of the phenomenon

It probably all stems from Dragon Ball and Goku. Toriyama’s work shows exactly what is now considered the basis of every battle shonen: a young, impulsive, idealistic protagonist with strong power, but lacking the maturity/ability to use/control it properly. This knowledge is then gained through training and trials such as tournaments or exams. In addition, there are friends to protect, a rival, and enemies becoming stronger and stronger.

So, DB may be truly considered the root of modern anime and manga shonen. Lots of tropes are now tied to it: sometimes there’s a school or an academy where characters study, train, and also mature as people. The protagonist may also have a tragic past, have lost their memory, or be the chosen one (but they aren’t usually aware of it, at least at first). What it is tied to Goku as a character archetype may also be seen in Rufy, Naruto, Ichigo, Natsu, and many others - we cannot mention them all, but you’ve probably understood what type of characters we are referring to.

Exceptions

Exceptions of course exist, like Gon from HunterxHunter. In this case, he’s only presented as a positive character at first but reveals a way darker side of his personality later on. Gon is an example of what may seem a perfect and always upright boy, the classic protagonist that enjoys challenges because they’re fun and cares deeply for his friends and family. However, there’s definitely more depth in him. Without going too far into spoiler territory, it’s enough to say that at a certain point he deviates from the standard shonen protagonist path, and acts in a more selfish, arguable way, and becomes a pretty negative character if one separates him from his role in the work.

Antagonists

By now, it should be clear how ESFP cognitive stack may lead to behaviors tied to common anime and manga tropes. The opposite is also often true for antagonists in these works:

Antagonists tend to be I rather than E, they’re more withdrawn and often dislike the world as it is and live best on their own. When they’re E, they are usually Te or Fe dom with an evil plan that aims at gaining absolute power or reforming society as a whole;

They tend to be N rather than S, and, seeing the big picture, they’re more prone to follow abstract goals and patterns;

They tend to be J rather than P. Antagonists are often planners with a step-by-step project and a long-term vision of how things should be. In case they’re P, they may have Ne rather than Se, always being ahead of their opponents and open to new hypotheses and countermeasures.

What about ISFPs?

ISFP-types often represent a ‘side cluster’ of tropes, with a focus on shadier, less upright characters who may pursue revenge as their main goal. ISFPs have the proactiveness of high Se users but, as Fi doms, they possess an even stronger sense of self. So, it’s interesting to notice how ESFPs are usually positive characters, while ISFPs may be presented as antagonists, or protagonists bearing a burden or being flawed/vengeful. We typed Lio from Promare on our blog, but other examples may be found in Dimitri from Fire Emblem Three Houses or Simon from Gurren Lagann, who is commonly typed as ISFP and starts his journey as very closed, scared and following others’ lead, and becomes a more positive and proactive character later on.

Sources

For further reading, we invite you to read those articles and guides:

https://mbti-notes.tumblr.com/spotting#fiction

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShonenDemographic?from=Main.Shonen

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockShonenHero

#mbtiofwhys #mbti #personalitytypes #typology #stereotypes #clichés #narrative characters #esfp #isfp #anime #manga #shonen

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Persona 5 and how MBTI can expose writing (in)consistency

Disclaimer

We’re studying writing and narratology as self taught, we are passionate about narrative in general and we believe in MBTI as a tool to analyse things and frame both reality and fiction in a different way. These are our opinions on the matter of how MBTI can be useful in approaching plot and character consistency, but don’t take it as a scientific paper;

We’re writing this article after a good 3 runs and various hundred of hours spent in this game per mod. We’ve already analysed the whole main cast and tried to explore everyone of them more in depth, so please don’t take anything in this article as an attack to a certain character or the game as a whole. We love P5 and P5R wholeheartedly - for this reason, we can’t overlook problems when they arise;

Big huge enormous spoilers for both P5 and P5R.

Premise

Characters are the most important element of a story - yes, even more important than the plot. Especially if you consider that a plot is, basically, characters doing stuff to reach a goal. Lots of stories revolve around a particular event or atmosphere, a fictional world to explore, or an issue, but there will always be characters in them because, as human beings, we’re attracted to people, their flaws and their problems.

So, if characters are the basis of a story, going deeper we see how fictional works tell us about how and why people overcome hardships and become a better person in the process (tragedies surely exist, but they aren’t the norm). That’s what is called the transformation arc.

That being said, how do we use MBTI? Since cognition is essential and behaviors mean nothing, we tend to look at characters both from a narrative and metanarrative standpoint. This means putting aside what characters do or what they like, and focusing on how they gain information, make decision and what are their motives. Since stories tell us about people and their struggles, it’s interesting to understand why characters act in a certain way, what really moves them forward.

This approach, inevitably, must compromise with the fact that fiction is made by people, and people can make mistakes. Works of fiction aren’t flawless and sometimes, trying to find what type a character is, is a way to bring light to those problems. Rules are a social construct, they’re fluid and constantly change, but they also provide useful tools to analyze stories, discovering their strength and their flaws. So, stories aren’t defined solely on strict rules, however MBTI can push one to better understand what is a good story or a well-written character and, vice-versa, why stories can fail to amaze us.

Why Persona 5?

Because it’s an excellent case study to show both how our typing process must adapt to face different situations, and what means to analyse a wide cast of characters that aren’t always perfectly written. The cast, though, is diverse enough that you can have characters with similar or opposite types that interact for 100+ hours, and this creates a very interesting setting for comparison and conflict.

Moreover, the confidant system can be a golden source MBTI-wise, because, if properly developed, a confidant can give us great insights about the character, or show other sides of them outside the main plot.

Tropes and typing

Persona 5 offers really great examples of what means to differentiate between typology and tropes when typing. Since we’re talking about fictional characters, we must acknowledge that sometimes there is a correlation between certain tropes/archetypes and certain types (mbtinotes on Tumblr talks about this more in depth here: https://mbti-notes.tumblr.com/spotting#fiction ). This, though, isn’t a rule and mustn’t become a limitation when typing, because cognitive functions work regardless of tropes, exactly as they do regardless of behaviors. P5 has both types that follow the tropes they are often associated with, and types that are completely different.

Ryuji is one of the main example belonging to the first case. He matches the Book dumb and Dumb blonde tropes, alongside with the Hot-blooded and Idiot hero ones. Those traits are usually linked to Se doms: always hungry and with lots of energy. In Ryuji’s case, though, he’s not an ESFP (only) because he’s loud and reckless, but also due to his approach to life and general cognitive process. That being said, it’s also true that he embodies the most common conception of what an ESFP looks like.

A similar example also applies to Akechi: he’s presented as the smart ace detective (The Ace) and later on as the mastermind traitor. He possesses many traits often linked to ENTJs, especially when they’re the villain, antagonist or anti-hero of the story. This doesn’t serve as a limit to his character though, and Akechi shares the majority of a young ENTJ’s cognitive process, alongside with some of its tropes.

On the other hand, P5 also offers characters belonging to the second case, for whom only looking at their tropes and role in the plot can be misleading typing-wise.

It's the case of Futaba: she’s an INFP according to our typing process, however the game always stresses her quirky and antisocial side, something so strong it defines her as a person even after her narrative arc. This is why many people type her as INTP, since those traits are often linked to Ti doms, high Ne users or rationalist types.

Another example is Yusuke: we typed him INTJ even though the community often refers to him as an ISFP. Our main complain regarding Yusuke as an ISFP is about how this type is justified only using the tropes he’s associated with. Since Yusuke is a bizarre artist and a weirdo, he must also be an ISFP in love with painting, art and beauty, right? Well, this is true, but not because he’s an ISFP. His behaviors don’t stem from an ISFP cognition, rather from the one of an INTJ, in our opinion.

Narrative arcs

Narrative arcs define the plot, but (following a shonen structure) they also sadly tend to be too much stand alone in the game, especially when it comes to character development. This leads to a situation where characters shine in their narrative arc, but then just sit in the background for the rest of the game, as a part of the Phantom Thieves. This isn’t entirely a bad thing, since Persona 5 revolves around a large cast of characters and tends to focus more on the group as a whole, so this structure suits the game’s leitmotif appropriately. However, narrative arcs surely enhance what we said about tropes and stereotypes, not always in a good way.

There’s also the problem of characters following the plot/comic gags instead of the opposite. A story may undoubtedly be full of gags and fanservice without it compromising its characters and their purpose inside the narration, but problems arise when said characters must adhere to rules set by the plot, rather than being realistic people freely taking actions and making mistakes.

More specifically, we’re referring to:

Ann and harassment

This, in our opinion, is the most emblematic case about narrative arcs and how they tend to be isolated from the rest of the game. Ann’s arc doesn’t revolve around a big issue, differently from others later on where the Phantom Thieves face threats against the entire Japan. However, Kamoshida feels like a real villain and the pain inflicted to his students isn’t less relevant than other issues. The firs arc tells us a story about harassment, how it may lead to victim blaming, social exclusion and extreme actions like Shiho’s attempted suicide. So, the game surely starts with a realist and captivating take, but what lies after it? Sadly, not much. From that moment on, Ann still remains the most sexualised member of the group and is often the one whose body is used as a tool to gain intel or other useful things - Yusuke’s modeling affair and the second letter of recommendation on Shido’s ship are just two blatant example.

And while Ryuji’s confidant is simple and straightforward yet still works properly, Ann’s one can be dull, revolving around characters less interesting and engaging than the ones we see during Kamoshida’s arc. Moreover, her confidant takes place while Shiho is still recovering, so we see her mentioned only few times.

Makoto and duty

Every awakening in Persona 5 is thrilling and moving but, speaking for us mods, we think that Makoto has one of the most galvanizing. Her arc embraces the leitmotif of rebellion and it works even better than the others since she always appears as a diligent and polite student. But is there something more after her awakening? Sadly, as we saw for Ann, the answer is no. Makoto’s confidant is plain, a simple solution placed by developers to show her personality while introducing new characters. It works, but it doesn’t give a further twist to the premise the game showed during her awakening. Not to mention that, despite her decision to less blindly follow the rules, Makoto is often relegated to the mom friend/dutiful student role, reminding others of rules and schoolwork and stuff. Yes, she has a relevant role in Sae’s arc, but we still find her confidant lacking what is shown during Kaneshiro’s arc.

Futaba and self growth

Futaba’s arc is interesting on many levels, especially because we see how a hikikomori undergoing severe traumas can overcome them, thus becoming a healthier person. Even though her arc is one of the most emotional in the game, Futaba quickly resets to a stage where she’s more of a comic relief than a vivid character and she often kicks in just to mock the other thieves or to solve problems tied to computer science and technology. Yes, this is coherent to her character, at the same time it often closes her in stereotypes since Futaba is limited by those roles rather than showing her new and mature side.

Kasumi and Sumire and the lack of closure

Sumire’s arc and confidant deal with finding acceptance and a new balance between her old and new self, since Sumire slowly accepts her sister’s death. Or, at least, this is what the game tries to convey to the players. We love what Persona 5 Royal added to the main game and we played both versions for hundred of hours, however we must admit how both of us mods found lack of proper character development throughout Sumire’s confidant. Her arc does a great job in showing how much pain she had to endure and how she begins to live with her sister’s death. But at the same time her confidant doesn’t give her a new starting point, in our opinion. Why? Because reaching rank ten with Sumire means that she just finds a new way to be tied to Kasumi, and not in a completely healthy way. Sumire admits how gymnastic was a way to be together with her sister and how she loved accessory activities tied to the sport, like eating ice cream after training, more than the sport itself. So, Sumire never really cared about the competitive side of gymnastic and, at the end of her confidant, it seems like she sticks with it just as a way to be tied to Kasumi again. Yes, this is surely a healthier way than the one she took with Maruki’s help, and we know how our opinion regarding Sumire can be controversial, at the same time we don’t think her confidant truly ends her arc properly.

What has typing every character highlighted?

After 3 playthroughs, two platinum trophies and many hours spent discussing this group of punks, we used MBTI to give a structure to our articles and, unexpectedly, we often had to slightly change our approach in typing the main cast. It’s been a huge project of analysis, research, reading online discussions and further learning. In the end, we’d like to write down our own conclusion about these characters. This specific section might be a bit more about our personal opinions, though.

Protagonist (ENFP)

Typing the protagonist was the wildest part of this project. Since he’s mostly an avatar controlled by the player, we knew everything had to be taken with a grain of salt. We separated canon from player’s choices, as a way to find what makes the protagonist a real character (sadly, not as much as he would have deserved). We also tried not to rely too much on gameplay mechanics in typing. In the end, we progressed by process of elimination, discarding the option that surely didn’t fit. We agreed on ENFP for him, but ENTP isn’t a bad match either. Even if a character so malleable by the player can’t be associated to a single type so easily, we do believe that a starting point somehow exists. Our hope for the future is that in new games we’ll get to play a real character, though.

Morgana (ESTJ)

Morgana was pretty hard to type, especially regarding the perceiving axis - which is a pity, because he’s not the stock ESTJ type of character. But since he’s the mascot of the Phantom Thieves, Morgana is often even more stereotyped than the other characters. He decently shows his dominant function during the game, but way less his auxiliary and tertiary ones, since his personality gets subdued by his function as the sidekick of the protagonist.

Ryuji (ESFP)

We talked above how tropes aren’t always detrimental and Ryuji is the perfect example of this concept. He was the easiest character to type, due to his simple (yet defined) personality. Ryuji demonstrates how a character doesn’t have to be complex or multifaceted to be interesting and loveable.

Ann (ESFJ)

Ann is the opposite case of Ryuji: a character driven by plot rather than by being a vivid person. We aren’t saying we dislike Ann (honestly there isn’t a thief we properly dislike), but we must admit how typing her was really difficult, and not because she’s too complex. It’s safe to assume she’s a Fe dom, however the game doesn’t give any solid clue about her perceiving axis - we traced down Si only by elimination and because her confidant show a clear FeNe loop, but otherwise the game offers nearly no clue of her Si (or Ti). Ann’s personality can’t shine properly in a game where, outside her narrative arc, she often has to follow the role of the ‘attractive/supportive character’ assigned to her.

Yusuke (INTJ)

Yusuke is an interesting case: typing him wasn’t easy, but, contrary to Ann, just because he’s more complex than he may appear. Under the ‘artist’ trope (that misled the majority of the community towards ISFP) there’s a character with less predictable sides and a well-written arc. Also, a very nice example of a non-textbook INTJ, since these types are often associated with science and/or greater battles in life. Yusuke was a nice surprise to find.

Makoto (ISTJ)

Typing Makoto was a bit of a slow process, since there isn’t a popular type assigned to her by the community. At the same time, identifying her cognitive functions wasn’t too hard, so we can at least say she’s a relatively solid character, meaning that even if she’s mostly a textbook ISTJ, she still shows the development process of her inferior Ne and tertiary Fi in her confidant. Her growth is pretty linear, and the problem lies precisely in the lack of a proper twist in her personality, since she could have been far more interesting and less predictable.

Futaba (INFP)

Futaba was hands down the hardest character to type, since she’s tied to all the stereotypes of being quirky, asocial and nerd, usually associated with INTPs. Futaba perfectly shows how a theoretically well-written character can’t shine under specific circumstances: she has an emotional and complex arc, which was in fact our starting point in typing her, since it’s a pretty clear example of a FiSi loop. Yet, she acts more as a comic relief or as a source to solve IT-related problems, and her functions aren’t properly shown.

Haru (INFJ)

Despite the meme of Atlus hating her and not giving her the proper screen time (which isn’t untrue), Haru was pretty easy to type. She’s a nice example of how a character doesn’t have to follow his type’s tropes to feel real. Haru isn’t the typical daydreaming INFJ with a saviour complex, and in fact she gets sometimes mistyped as INFP. Unluckily, as for Ann, the game doesn’t do a good job in giving her a well-rounded personality, and in fact finding evidences of her third and fourth functions was pretty hard.

Goro (ENTJ)

Akechi is probably the most multifaceted and complex character in the game, at least in P5 vanilla - we believe Maruki lowkey stole that record in Royal. However, since he’s a well-written one (even if he still lacks a proper narrative arc, to a certain extent), Akechi wasn’t hard to type. The most interesting thing is that he may seem the classic ENTJ with a psychopath/killer personality, but in reality, he probably doesn’t suffer from any mental illness, and his character revolves around what happens when functions are used unhealthily, or are excessively underdeveloped. For this exact reason, though, we find a pity that the game doesn’t properly address the consequences and aftermath of a teen that had to commit severe crimes and murder people to find a place in life.

Kasumi (ENFP) and Sumire (ISFJ)

There’s a lot to say about Kasumi and Sumire, especially regarding their role in the plot and their confidants. Typing them wasn’t easy, since we only see Kasumi through Sumire’s actions, and both of them have a half-confidant instead of a proper one each. So, with both sisters we had to proceed a bit by process of elimination, since they appear for a relatively short time and without super strong evidences of their types despite a few functions. Sadly, they highlighted how writing characters for plot’s sake rather than by making them vivid may lead to incomplete narrative arcs.

We’ve come to the end of this article. Thank you for reading!

This officially concludes our journey with the P5 main cast - it’s been a wonderful experience to learn more about both MBTI and the characters of the game we loved so much. If you want to discuss things with us, we’ll gladly listen. You can reach out here on Tumblr in comments, asks and dms, as well as on Instagram.

(And, if you’re interested, we’ve also wrote about Maruki, Sojiro and Tae).

#mbtiofwhys #mbti #personalitytypes #typology #blogging #stereotypes #clichés #video games #fiction #fictionalworks #persona 5 #persona 5 royal #p5 #p5r #narrative #writing #fictional characters

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Tae Takemi

ISFP

Functional Order: Fi - Se - Ni - Te

Spoiler warning

This article will cover Tae’s analysis and there’ll be references to her confidant, so read carefully!

Judging Functional Axis

Introverted Feeling (Fi) / Extroverted Thinking (Te)

Takemi isn’t a member of the Phantom Thieves, nor a pivotal character in the game. That being said, she has an interesting confidant that offers enough elements to type her and, looking at her narrative arc, there is more depth than one may think.

Tae is a Fi dominant and this is shown during her interactions with protagonist. Unraveling her past, the player discovers how her little clinic in Yongen-Jaya is also an activity to cover her real goal: to improve her medicine, thus finding a cure to a rare disease. Tae isn’t only concerned about this on a humanitar level, since a proper medicine would work for every people affected by the disease, she also deeply cares because this is a personal matter. Tae believes one of her former patient died due to a treatment she developed, thus causing her to lose her role at the university and gaining the nickname “The Plague”. So, even if Tae is surely working to find a cure for everyone, what is more important for her is to find a cure as a way to make amends for her past mistake, honoring Miwa. When Tae discovers Oyamada’s scheme and the truth about Miwa, she’s relieved because this way, she can still save a life - one she cares even more about since she thought Miwa was dead. Even if Oyamada used her as a scapegoat, blinded by jealousy, Tae doesn’t seem to hold a grudge against him. All she cares about is that Miwa is still alive, and this means she’s still able to save her life.

All this events related to her confidant show how Tae works with a clear and strong ethic -as a doctor but, more importantly, as someone who cares about her patients. Tae doesn’t seek revenge on Oyamada, nor she tries to actively rehabilitate her past. Her number one priority is to find a cure, thus she pours her soul into her work.

Tae’s mature Fi is balanced by a healthy Te. When protagonist meets her, they strike a deal and Tae is well aware about how a person willing to operate outside the law would be helpful to her studies. She quickly sees a concrete way to reach her goal faster and, even if her medicines have side effects, she never forces the protagonist to take them. But with his aid, Tae develops a cure to the disease. Her Te is a mature one, since Tae is organized and work following a clear and rational course of action. Even if she lost a patient and her job, she’s still focused on a practical way to solve a problem, one she deeply cares about, thus she uses her Te to polish her plan to save Miwa.

Perceiving Functional Axis

Extroverted Sensing (Se) / Introverted Intuition (Ni)

Tae, as a high Se user, prefers to learn by doing. Her research for a cure has a theoretical basis, but at the same time her main way to obtain data is by providing medicines to protagonist. First she tests the side effects, then she proceeds to fine-tune her studies. She is well aware of the implication of her treatment, but she still does her best to experiment outside the law to reach her goal (Te) and she does it by constantly taking action, learning by taking concrete decisions with immediate, tangible effects. When Tae discovers the truth about Miwa she feels relieved, however she doesn’t waste time and starts to work even harder to find a cure to the disease. So, Tae has a general approach to problems based on taking action and, as a doctor, she breaks lots of stereotypes about the serious and passive professionist always occupied with paperwork and bureaucracy.

Tae’s Se is balanced by a well-developed Ni. We can see how Tae works as a doctor not only as a way to aid people, but also with a bigger goal in mind. She has a mission, something that falls outside her daily routine. Tae’s Ni is what receives all the data collected by her Se and puts them into an abstract pattern. This pattern is her research, since as an ISFP her tertiary Ni aids her Fi by establishing a goal to her plan. At the same time, as a high Se user, Tae knows well how to make adjustments when needed. Since she’s a P, in fact, Tae is adaptable enough to see the path carved as a strong recommendation rather than a strict set of action to take in order to succeed.

On a final note: Tae is a really mature ISFP, so her Ni may appear stronger than a tertiary one and this is also true for her inferior Te. A general reminder with MBTI is that adults had time to make mistakes and, hopefully, to learn from them.

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Sojiro Sakura

ISTJ

Functional Order: Si - Te - Fi - Ne

Spoiler warning This article will cover Sojiro’s analysis with precise reference from both P5 and P5R plot and his confidant.

Perceiving Functional Axis

Introverted Sensing (Si) / Extroverted Intuition (Ne)

Enjoying a peaceful life may be a bit of a stereotype for high Si users, but this is to a certain extent very true for Sojiro. He retired from his work with the government to run a small café in the backstreets of Jongen-Jaya, and the man makes no secret of how much he likes his new life there. Everything he does is highly methodical (if not repetitive) and based on routine: he opens and closes his café at the same hour, serves customers, makes coffee and curry the usual way and knows every small detail of his customer’s lives and how they like their coffee. He has acquired and treasured every bit of knowledge about them and the job in general, and uses this experience to run his business. He’s not very fond of sudden changes, either, and tends to stay away from both novelties and arguments, much preferring watching everything from afar. Much like many Si doms, especially the more mature ones, it’s not like he’s completely against new things and habits, but he needs time to process the new information, adapt and accept the changes in his life, especially if they’re unpredicted. This passive attitude of his can be seen at various points in the game, starting with his initial dismissiveness towards protagonist, and following with his complete uninterest in the Phantom Thieves (at least until they become a major threat to society) and at last with the year Futaba spent as a shut in. ISTJs, being introverts, are way more cautious then ESTJs, who being E with dominant Te are more prone to take immediate action, rather than studying the situation and proceeding with little steps. This isn’t to say Sojiro has an imbalanced stack, though. He remains a middle-aged man, this meaning his functions are globally very well developed. His Ne, in fact, is way more present and working than what one could find in a teenager (e.g. Makoto, who is the same type). Being a dominant Si means that Sojiro needs time to adapt, but this isn’t to imply that he can’t confront unexpected circumstances. This happens many times throughout the game: he receives pressures both from Sae and Futaba’s uncle regarding Futaba and Wakaba, he discovers that both the teenagers he’s responsible for are Phantom Thieves (with protagonist being none other than the leader) and his life and business are threatened by Shido’s men. But despite everything, Sojiro can always stay calm and find a way to solve the situation at hand. He’s very accepting of Futaba’s abrupt change of heart, doesn’t sell the Thieves once he discovers their identities and, in the end, menages to work with Sae to find a solution for everyone.

Judging Functional Axis

Extroverted Thinking (Te) / Introverted Feeling (Fi)

Sojiro highly values practical skills and capable hands, in general. He’s very clear with protagonist that his staying isn’t for free, and that he needs to help him running the shop from time to time. He can be grumpy and bossy, especially at first, and is comfortable in giving orders and teaching as long as it’s a field of his competence. He’s initially rigid and judgemental with protagonist, and never loses a chance to remind him to follow the rules and avoid being a burden for society and the others around him (a nice combo of his SiTe). Once he learns protagonist is a guy willing to follow his lessons, though, his mind starts to change, and the more protagonist can be useful in the shop and help Sojiro out, the more trust Sojiro places in him. This is Te at its finest: a clear understanding of how someone or something may be helpful to solve a problem, and thus finding a concrete set of actions aimed to maximize the outcome. However, Sojiro isn’t a cold hearted man who uses people as a tool. His relationship with protagonist starts somewhat as a business exchange, but slowly evolves into something deeper. Sojiro’s Fi, in fact, can be clearly seen starting from after Futaba’s arc. What were hints of a hidden soft spot for protagonist and his friends, turn out to be straight and deep affection for ‘that punk’ and his group - to the point that, in the ideal bad ending of Royal, Sojiro offers protagonist to stay with him another whole year in order to let him complete his studies at Shujin. He’s not a sentimental man, yet it’s clear how much he cares for both his daughter and the Thieves, in the end practically adopting the whole group and sheltering them from danger when they most need a safe space to be in. This, though, stems from feelings that are very personal and need time to develop and come out - and even then, Sojiro doesn’t like to be overly sentimental, and tends to brush everything off and grumble about ‘these group of teens driving crazy a poor old man.’

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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Takuto Maruki

INFJ

Functional Order: Ni - Fe - Ti - Se

Spoiler warning

This article will contain spoilers about the main plot of the game and Maruki’s confidant, as a way to provide the most comprehensive analysis.

Perceiving Functional Axis

Introverted Intuition (Ni) / Extroverted Sensing (Se)

Maruki is a pivotal character in Persona 5 Royal, with a complex and well-written personality. As an INFJ, Maruki lives following a clear goal envisioned by his dominant Ni. Even if it may seem unbalanced at first, Maruki’s perceiving axis is a developed one, since a common problem regarding immature Ni revolves around the inability to give purpose to one’s life with a concrete project in mind. Maruki, however, knows precisely what he wants and how to gain it, thus he’s able to take advantage of the vacant spot left after Jaldaboath’s defeat as a tool to realize his vision. Dominant Ni discards data provided by Se in order to build a sound visualization of a feasible future scenario. Maruki, in fact, isn’t a daydreamer stuck in a loop of unattainable results, he’s rather aware of how his vision will affect both him and the world, as well as other people. Letting Rumi behind and sacrificing a peaceful reality where he’ll be satisfied with his life is just a step to shape a better reality for everyone.

Rumi needs further attention because, as always, cognition must be separated from behaviours and past traumas. So, regarding Maruki, it’s clear how his relationship with Rumi influenced his vision of the the world and how it affected him emotionally. At the same time, Maruki isn’t trapped in a loop where he disconnects from reality following a distorted dream. Rumi isn’t part of the equation, Maruki surely holds her memory dear but he goes beyond his grief to build a better world. He experienced directly the pain he sees in other people which is, ultimately, what really moves him forward.

Maruki’s Ni is balanced by a solid inferior Se. Usually, young or immature Ni dom users suffer of inaction or passiveness, they set unrealistic goals, they don’t plan a realistic and step-by-step plan to realize their dreams. Maruki is the opposite: he is well aware of his potential, and knowing what he can achieve he envisions a feasible reality. Maruki doesn’t aim to rebuild society from its very foundations, he rather tries to create a new scenario through a series of concrete actions. In short, he doesn’t start from zero, he corrects what (in his opinion) needs to be adjusted - a much more realistic approach to fixing problems compared to what is generally the ‘ultimate plan’ of other villain masterminds.

During the game Maruki is always focused on the future, not in a cliché way but with a practical approach to problems: he has a power he doesn’t clearly understand yet and he knows how this source may lead him to a future scenario similar to the one he dreams about, thus he follows little steps to reach it. Maruki does it by interacting with the Phantom Thieves, in this way he’s able to gain knowledge about the Metaverse and, at the same time, receives feedbacks through counseling sessions, thus constantly reshaping his utopia.

Judging Functional Axis

Extroverted Feeling (Fe) / Introverted Thinking (Ti)

Maruki is so focused on other’s needs he falls in a savior complex. He doesn’t limit to mourning Rumi or helping others through normal counselling, rather he constantly harbors a deep desire to help others, no matter who they are. This is a clear sign of high Fe: Maruki doesn’t fight for a single cause, a specific belief, he instead does what he considers the best for everyone. Maruki sees the world as a place full of people where everyone should be happy. He hasn’t a deep bond with Sumire when he starts to help her, he simply cares for her since she’s a human being undergoing a tremendous trauma. This is an approach based on objective feelings, on shared wellness, on preserving social harmony and thus allowing people to be happy together.

Maruki is Shujin’s counselor, however he still overthinks his actions and words because he fears to break the emotional environment. Even while talking with students his focus is clearly centered on other people and their well-being, he puts his needs aside and do his best to soothe their pain.

Maruki’s Fe is what aids his vision. As we stated above he has the power to shape reality almost as he wants, this is where the auxiliary function comes into play: the reality envisioned by Maruki is a summary of his philosophy, a world where no one suffers, where people experience joy and happiness. As a human being with high Fe Maruki cares for the emotional atmosphere of his surrounding. As a counselor he extended this to a whole school and as a persona user he went even further, trying to nurture society as a whole.

His Fe is thus balanced with tertiary Ti. This function can be seen in his methodical approach to problems: he has a vision (Ni) related to people’s wellness (Fe) and he implements it through a logical and rational approach. Maruki’s Palace isn’t a mere cognitive expression of his personality and inner self, it’s also an organized clinic with specialized staff, rules, routines, areas dedicated to specific tasks, all of this with a focus on people: rooms have an aseptic white appearance, they are spacious and designed to be comfortable - in sharp contrast with the storage and monitoring areas, which aren’t meant to be seen by visitors. Since a Palace is by definition the manifestation of their ruler’s deside it’s safe to assume that it simply reflects Maruki’s methodical and rational approach to tasks, even considering smaller details. Ti is a function based on building a subjective (since it’s introverted), rational system as a tool to solve problems. Maruki applies this tool to solve intangible problems tied to the realization of a future where everyone can experience only positive feelings (Ni and Fe).

Ti manifests itself more clearly during the Phantom Thieves’ infiltration in the Palace. Here they discover how Maruki planned a system based on happiness recognition: people must take choices and if one fails it has to be rehabilitated. So, Maruki organises reality with a people-based approach followed by a more rational one, a single algorithm used to decode every possible scenario (in this case, every person) through a specific process.

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mbtiofwhys · 4 years

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How Ni and Ne (don't) binge watch

Premise

MBTI is a serious topic for us mods and we always put our best effort writing articles for this blog. However, we also find entertaining to write in a more light way about how MBTI shows off in real life. This article is one of those: we won’t discuss deeply about theory, but we’ll rather talk about our experiences with binging works of various media, be them books, videogames or tv shows. We love typing fictional characters since we also love works of fiction. Listening to other high Ni and Ne users we found an interesting correlation between those two function and media consumption, especially regarding the topic of binging. So, this isn’t hard science, it's simply a light reflection that 200% comes from our experiences. That being said, we hope this article will be relatable and intriguing.

Ni dom and binge

INFJ mod here. This may sound counterintuitive, but even if Ni is known to be a function about searching for deeper meanings, discarding options and focusing on the few remaining, I approach works of fictions with a “multitasking” method. What do I mean? Well, I’m not the kind of person who will just sit down and watch an entire season of a tv show, even if it’s the best I ever seen (there are few exception to this rule, works like Persona 5 Royal which I heavily binged. With no regrets). I simply prefer to watch a little amount of episodes, or read few chapters of a book, for example, and then stop, thus having time to reflect on what I saw or read. I just need time to process all of the data and feelings, otherwise I’ll just hit the wall of information overload.

Even if they’re just my attempt to find a correlation between high Ni and all those aspects, I’d like to talk about what the causes of this behaviours may be, with a MBTi perspective.

Binging may be hard for Ni users since they need time to analyze things, putting them in their abstract subjective system. This means, in other words, that the higher the level of complexity is, the longer will be the time needed to absorb it. For example, I can read mindlessly a novel for a mere entertaining value, but if I really like it I’ll just take my time to enjoy the journey, reflecting and talking about my feelings and first impressions to my friends (this is my auxiliary Fe showing, I know).

Ni operates by discarding elements, thus Ni users may reach a point where they simply prefer to stop. This process allows them to elaborate those information, be them characters, facts or emotions (based on personal preferences, for example feelers may tend toward the emotional aspect and T users toward puzzles, mysteries, logical consistency). As I stated above, if I absorb too much data and feelings I’ll just freeze, submerged by the information overload. With works of fiction, I have an underlying fear of missing important aspects of it and the more I read, watch or play, the more I’ll need time to stop and see how all the new things make sense, be them theories, feelings, or simply understanding what’s going on. Even while I’m actively reading/watching/playing I process all the informations as a way to put them into perspective, constantly elaborating them in the back of my mind.

Another personal consideration is: high Ni implies low Se. Low Se may find binging as a form of overstimulation. Moreover Se, in lower positions, requires little stimuli, allowing Ni users to organize the environment (rationally or emotionally through Te or Fe), since high Ni users are J and need a certain amount of control over the environment (Te or Fe) and their feelings or internal logic (Fi or Ti) .

Finally, I think there’s a tendency in high Ni user to consume multiple media, but in small amounts. This isn’t supported by hard evidences, it’s just a trend I noticed talking to friends about the subject. Ni users may prefer to approach different media rather than a single one, splitting their attention and energies through them. So, this is the opposite of binging. Personally, except for few works of fiction which I blindly burned with my passion, I usually switch from a medium to another, a sort of “media multitasking” as a way to “cool down” from one by simultaneously approach another one and still being engaged.

Ne dom and binge

ENFP mod here. I fear I’ll have to repeat the same premise as INFJ mod: This may sound counterintuitive, but even if Ne is known to be a function that works with multitasking and jumps from one topic to the other very quickly, I tend to approach works of fiction by shamelessly binging one and proceeding to be obsessed with it for months (or years.)

This happens especially for the works that end up being my favorites once I finish them - paired with the fact that I usually go through them again at least a second time after I’m finished. It almost feels like that if I’m not binging, I’m not interested/invested enough to care. I binge so much, in fact, that I’ve come to distinguish the ‘soft binge’ from the ‘hard binge’ - where ‘soft’ means a 12 episodes anime in 2-4 days and ‘hard’ means 145 hours of Persona 5 Royal in 3 weeks.

So, how might this work?

Firstly, Ne dom needs stimuli. Constantly. The more, the better. Because external stimuli means more prompts from something that isn’t one’s mind, which causes further reflection, connections and a ton of brainstorming. Ne can connect dots scaringly quickly, and even though proper reflection is appreciated to deepen the subject, connections are often made on the spot. I think it’s very difficult for me to reach a point of information overload - it usually happens with very complex topics and study subjects, for which I need to take a break and write things down into diagrams and lists in order to make proper sense of what I learned. But even in the case of works with heavy and intricate worldbuilding/plot (e.g. Stein’s;Gate, but I’m a sucker for time travel fiction so whichever is fine) I rarely stop watching if something doesn’t add up - I usually understand it later on, or wait for everything to end and search on the internet or talk about it with friends. My only time off is the one between OP/ED (which I NEVER skip and my friends hate me for that.) In that time, I disconnect my brain for 1 minute and 20-ish seconds to recharge.

Ne dom doesn’t have the patience to wait. If it wants answers, it wants them now. Binging is great because it offers both stimuli, questions and answers in a short amount of time. Also, (but maybe this is more of an F thing and for Ti aux might be different) I’m not one to make theories and speculations over fictional works - I might do that, but later, once I’m finished. While I’m enjoying a work, I’m usually so involved that all the theorising is limited to hunches and intuitions. Proper theorising needs time, needs one to stop and reflect on one’s knowledge in order to find hidden meanings and try to predict the outcome. I don’t have the patience to do that. I’m not interested in doing that - I want to know what’s going on, period. The few times I happened to reflect and speculate on a work of fiction were when I watched/read/played the thing simultaneously with some friends and talked to them about it constantly.

Which brings us to: discussing with people. Knowing a work means you’re able to discuss it with others, read reviews and watch video essays and analysis, of course Ne dom wants to devour it as quickly as possible. I literally watched the whole Evangelion (and I mean: the anime, EoE and the 3 rebuilds) in two weeks in order to finally enjoy those sweet, sweet video essays and parody and abridged YouTube wouldn’t stop to suggest me. This may sound silly, but searching discussion topics of the works I went through -even the ones I disliked- is very important to me, because listening to other people’s opinions and prompts is a way to further feed my Ne with different perspectives, viewpoints, things I might have missed while binging.

The problem: the quicker the binge, the more it’s difficult for me to remember details about plot, characters etc that, yet minor, can be important or interesting. Which is kind of the main struggle of having low Si: you know something, but you don’t remember everything you’d need precisely. You can’t pinpoint the scene where a thing happened, you feel you might have already seen a detail but you can’t recollect when and in what circumstances, and the list goes on. And this doesn’t stop once you’ve finished, obviously - it can only get worse. Typing the main Persona 5 cast was such a pain that, during my second playthrough of vanilla P5, I literally had to open a document and write down every single line or detail or plot point that could’ve helped me later. Otherwise, the situation would be: “damn, I know [character] said something alongside the line of [thing that could help me with typing] but I can’t remember what exactly! Let’s spend hours on YT watching walkthrough in order to find by chance the exact scene I’m thinking about.” This may also be why I periodically feel the need to go through my favourite works again: I may know them by heart, but there will always be things that I missed.

#mbti of whys #mbti #personality types #myers briggs #typology #binging #ni #ne #introverted intuition #extroverted intuition #works of fiction

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