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avelera · 1 month

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So I've been watching Three Body Problem with my partner and we just got to Episode 5. It has (spoilers) a pretty gruesome scene in it from the book, very bloody. I literally didn't watch it, just listened and watched my partner's (shocked) face throughout it.

This got me thinking. Not so much about Three Body Problem, because I haven't finished it yet nor read the books so I haven't really formed any sort of opinion on the show or the overall story, but more on Benioff and Weiss.

While looking away from That Scene I was curious if it was even in the book, so I was looking that up instead of watching. It was, but sure enough, Benioff and Weiss had embellished it.

I'll discuss it in more detail beneath the cut to avoid spoilers but suffice to say this is my take away:

For Benioff and Weiss, it's always been about cruelty. The chance to show cruelty above and beyond the source material, using the source material only as a spring board to delve into horrific imagery, is literally what attracts them to the stories they choose to depict.

And I felt like I'm taking crazy pills when I pointed this out all through the Game of Thrones era, not so much no one was figuring it out but because it felt like no one in the mainstream media was talking about it. They'd get asked these deep artistic questions about a certain scene (like the quote below which has spoilers) and it would be asked completely seriously and they'd give this answer like, "Oh we didn't want to show all that gore but we had no choice."

And I'm just sitting their flabbergasted like... what the fuck are you talking about, just admit that's what you wanted to depict?? That's what gave you a boner to tell this particular story??

Let me be clear, an artist choosing to depict gore and cruelty isn't a problem. I'm not a horror fan but it's not like I think horror shouldn't exist, or gore, or horrifying scenes that shock us to our marrow. That's very much a thing art can and should do!

I just feel like I'm fucking crazy because Benioff and Weiss and the people interviewing them never seem to get that this is their story kink. They always put this like... veneer of genteel shock and respectability over their questions about the cruel and gorey scenes they depict, like it just happened that way, when it's really really clear this is the stuff they like showing the most.

Benioff and Weiss's Game of Thrones was literally more gorey, graphic, and dehumanizing in places than the actual book. Where they departed from the books was, more often than not, to make things more abjectly cruel, dehumanizing, and shocking towards the characters. That's what they like doing as creators.

So this scene in Three Body Problem...

(SPOILERS)

... Where the ship gets slashed to ribbons and little children are literally shredded apparently isn't even depicted in the book.

"“We wanted to show it, we didn’t want to evade it,” Benioff said at a roundtable earlier this month. “I think when you actually see something on a screen, it is going to be more horrific than in the book. You’re reading these descriptions, but you’re not seeing blood, you’re not seeing a bunch of kids running away, you’re not seeing children’s backpacks getting split in half.” (source)

Didn't want to evade it? The book literally doesn't show children getting shredded and you went out of your way to show us numerous scenes introducing these children just so you can lovingly show them and their world get shredded to ribbons while completely aware and confronting the full horror of their fates like...

Again, I am not trying to moralize here. There is a space for horror, there is a space for exploring horrible things happening to innocents.

But they always talk about these very deliberate depictions of abject cruelty as if it's just *shrugs* "What can ya do? It had to be done!" NO IT DIDN'T. IT'S LITERALLY NOT IN THE BOOK IN THAT WAY. JUST OWN IT. OWN YOUR ARTISTIC VISION. OWN THE FACT YOU GLORY IN MAKING SLASHER LEVELS OF GORE AND TORTURE AND DEHUMANIZATION. STOP BEING SO FUCKING GENTEEL ABOUT IT. JUST FUCKING... LEAN IN TO WHAT YOU ARE INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE IT WASN'T THE CHANCE TO SHOW CRUELTY THAT ATTRACTED YOU TO THE STORY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And just as a lateral, US politics note, it felt like this under Trump too. I'm not saying artists depicting cruelty in an artistic work is anything like a politician with real power reveling in flexes of power channeled towards deliberate acts of fascistic cruelty.

But in both cases I felt like I was taking crazy pills because the media would just... speculate about the root desire behind such actions? Like "What could possibly be motivating these guys? Gosh, we don't know, to say what's actually happening here would be far too gauche so we'll just pretend it was an unpleasant byproduct of their TRUE goals, whatever those may be, no matter how implausible they may be."

Like: it's cruelty! The point is cruelty! Some people are just sadists! Some people get off on hurting others or in having the power to hurt others OR (and this is by far the only acceptable version of this and by the way it's completely acceptable to do this in FICTION) in creating artistic works that depict terrible cruelty and sadism.

... So anyway, I definitely went into Three Body Problem going, "Huh, I wonder why Benioff and Weiss chose THIS supremely difficult story to adapt as one of their next big projects?" And then I saw the boat getting shredded and the children they added to the loving depictions of gore and was like, "... Ah, yes. That's why."

(Edit: Just to be clear for those thinking of watching the show, it's not a gore-fest. It was easy to see this scene coming and to look away for it. There's some other moments of violence but those are also pretty easy to anticipate and look away from. This isn't a slasher horror show and it's had a lot of good points (so far). This particular scene just made me go, "Ah, there's the Benioff and Weiss I remember.")

#netflix three body problem #benioff and weiss #game of thrones #come at me bro I don't even care if people disagree

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matt00794 · 1 month

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ok so part way through dark forest and want finish the books before watching the whole show but watched episode 1 of the 3 body problem. So far theres some really good stuff in this, they made some changes to make it less science forward which is annoying. But I do get that this is a netflix show that they want a lot of people to watch so I get it. So far there's been no nudity but going from a book that was like I got married and had a kid with him to make it so I could do more science, to this show that has all these sex jokes is a little odd. They also are changing some stuff around like a character shows up earlier than I remember but it's probably good to have them earlier. the three body game helmet looks so fake and just ridiculous, but the game world so far looks so cool. Ye Wenjie older and younger are both great so far, they made a change where she was like dating the reporter so didn't want to give him up which felt odd, and didn't feel like it would be part of her character. so far D&D aren't doing the worst job on the planet with this but some of the dialoge felt very them, the Samwell Tarly actor character feels so them, and just such an annoying character so far. the Da Shi character in this feels really wierd compared to the book, his whole I fail upwards thing was so weird, like we get it you guys were failed screen writers till the point where you made GOT and a bunch of people loved it but the character was rude and a bit out there but was great at his job people didn't like how he did things not that he failed. I guess maybe they think they did an extraordinary job with GOT and people didn't like it because they aren't as cool and awesome and so above fantasy as themselves. this rant is kind of long but I'm going to watch episode 2 and then try to finish books two and three books before watching more

#three body problem #Benioff and Weiss

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thestory812 · 1 year

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“He loved and respected Brienne but he was still addicted to Cersei.”

-Benioff and Weiss on the aftershow

“They created the fight with Euron to make people worry he may not get back to Cersei.”

-Nikolaj Coster Waldau about why the showrunners put in the Jaime Euron sword fight

In both cases I am paraphrasing, but the juxtaposition of these statements points to a total lack of story/theme cohesion. If we are to take the first statement as true then are we to believe that the showrunners wanted viewers to…..root for Jaime to return to his “addiction?” The first statement sounds a lot like a sop to Jaime and Brienne fans (as though they would actually give those fans a thought) or maybe they felt that comment was enough to give credence to the relationship and GRRM vision’s despite how they portrayed them on screen. Include Djawadi’s score that he stated was “wedding music” for Jaime and Brienne and it as though there was no genuine, actual takeaway for this story.

#jaime x brienne #braime #jaime lannister #brienne of tarth #benioff and Weiss #GRRM #anti got

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antinativefaves · 3 months

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Your Fave is Anti Native - George RR Martin, David Benioff and DB Weiss

Martin's portrayal of the Dothraki were inspired by a collection of Indigenous cultures as depicted below but their depiction is VERY racist and degrading.

The portrayal of the Dothraki in the Game of Thrones live action series is also with it's massive problems that perpetuate racist stereotypes.

The tweet in question went viral and fans of the show have put their own ignorance and racism on full display. When your writing and your portrayal of marginalized groups inspires more racism and hatred, it is anti-indigenous. Full stop.

#Your Fave Is Anti Native #Game of Thrones #George RR Martin #David Benioff #DB Weiss #A Song of Ice and Fire #asoiaf #anti native racism #anti-native racism

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quasi-normalcy · 11 months

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>Rush the ending of Game of Thrones in order to get the jump on writing a new Star Wars movie

>Fuck up the ending of Game of Thrones so badly that, not only do you not get a new Star Wars movie, you have extreme difficulty getting any project at all

#david benioff #d.b weiss

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mrnotsosilent · 1 month

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BAWLING MY EYES OUT

#3 body problem #netflix series #science fiction #david benioff #d. b. weiss #alexander woo #series #television series

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torturedpoetemotions · 5 months

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Creators who queerbait and kill off beloved characters purely for shock value always talk like they think they're writing something revolutionary when in reality they're doing the writing equivalent of a 12yo boy saying he likes you only to mock you for ever thinking he could be serious.

#sera gamble #andrew dabb #paul simms #david benioff #db weiss #mark gatiss #stephen moffat #tag the writers you'd fight in a parking lot

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shutupcrime · 22 days

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Thoughts on 3 Body Problem before it gets cancelled because Netflix is a joke:

these scientists need to be way more nerdy. One of them mentions watching Rick and Morty and I don’t believe it

Video games needle drop? What in the Lana del ray is this

These aliens are real fucking virtue signallers get over yourselves

A lot of children have been murdered with very little discussion about it

My theory is anyone who was in game of thrones in this is gonna die

What is with Liam Cunningham and the fucking one liners

Benedict Wong kind of just disappears

Jin really slays in period clothing

More doomsday cult action plssss

Anti alien truthers is very real but give us more of that and less of Augie moping

Too many bad monologues

The green screen is atrocious

Wills family sucks

I hope the monkey is ok

Seriously where is mr Wong?

Every time they say sophon I just hear cellphone

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growingstrong2019 · 10 days

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Loras in season 2 & the books fought on the front lines in the battle for Kingslanding & helped liberate it from Stannis’s forces.

But later on D&D suddenly decided gay knights can’t fight as they had him arrested by vicious homophobes without a fight. He was even armed when they arrested him! Like they could’ve at least shown him taking a few of them out before being arrested.

#loras tyrell #got #game of thrones #house tyrell #olenna tyrell #margaery tyrell #anti d&d #david benioff #dan weiss #loras x renly #renly x loras #renly baratheon #homophobia #game of thrones lgbt #finn jones

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jackie-elysium · 10 months

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3 Body Problem

Netflix

#netflix #three body problem #3bodyproblem #liu cixin #david benioff #David Benioff #D. B. Weiss #db weiss #netflix 3bodyproblem #science fiction #drama #benedict wong #netflix series #series #teaser

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avelera · 1 month

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Apologies for screaming into your askbox like this but

EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT BENIOFF AND WEISS IS SO FUCKING TRUE AND I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE IS FINALLY SAYING SOMETHING

As someone who read the Game of Thrones books (probably younger than I should have...but that's beside the point) the sorts of things that the two Ds decided needed to be added for the sake of "realism" or "accuracy" was ALWAYS just an excuse to brutalize someone. Be it kids, be it women (though in GoT is was usually women) and so much of it was not in the books!!! Like, sure, the books have accrued a reputation for being brutal, and they totally are...but they never seem as gretuatus in the way that David and Dan seem to revel in the crualty. Utterly original characters are introduced for the express purpose of being killed or assaulted, and it makes watching Game of Thrones a harrowing experience.

I'm not surprised that this has continued in their other work, in so many ways, the bloodlust became their calling card. I am deeply thankful that most of the other places that had been courting them to make projects have dropped them.

I will say in defense of the no doubt huge team who worked on Three Body Problem that it's not a gore fest or anything. There was a lot I've enjoyed in eps 1-5 (which as far as I've gotten at the moment) and scenes of violence are hardly the only thing that happens (though umm... maybe be prepared for the opening scene. It's also a doozy.)

Anyway, as I see it, Benioff and Weiss's sadism is more like... Tarantino's foot fetish. It doesn't consume the entire story, but when Tarantino does a loving closeup of feet you're like, "Ah, there it is. I was wondering when that would show up." If B&W work on something, like it or not, they're going to mash the cruelty button and heighten the cruelty of canonical scenes (if it's an adaptation) in order to try to get a reaction out of the audience. It's just how they work. For some audiences, that might even be a feature, not a bug!

The thing that makes me so frothing at the mouth enraged about Benioff and Weiss is how fucking coquettish they are about their sadism. They always act so fucking surprised like they're shocked that anyone would think that the gore and the horror were the point and what drew them to the story (I know, I'm just repeating my post at this point but STILL--!).

Look, when I was a teen, I totally first started writing angst to sort of... express this vein of sadism in myself in a safe outlet like fiction. I wanted to make people cry with my writing. So I'd do things like just kill off all the characters and be so proud when a reader said they were sad after.

But that's just... really flat and amateurish angst, y'know? There are so many more sophisticated and meaningful ways to create emotion, including sadness, in an audience other than just killing off all the characters or torturing them.

But I feel I remember enough from those days (I'd like to think I've long since grown out of that impulse) to know a sadist when I see one? And Benioff and Weiss's storytelling, to my eyes again, is simply sadistic. It glories in watching people in pain and it finds ways to exaggerate that pain and the chance to exaggerate moments of pain is what draws them to the stories they like to depict.

And that's fine. Plenty of horror creators revel in gore and cruelty and it's an entirely worthy art form!

But for the most part, those horror creators know what they're doing and they're open or even joyful about the fun they have creating these horror stories! Enjoying creating horror stories or depicting suffering or even being sadistic, particularly in fiction where no one is actually getting hurt, is perfectly fine.

I just fuckin... wish Benioff and Weiss would admit that's what it is goddamn it makes me INSANE.

#benioff and weiss #game of thrones #netflix three body problem

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pynkhues · 4 months

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Think it's finally time to just acknowledge that I don't like Rian Johnson's work and leave it at that.

#i just watched the first two eps of poker face and not even natasha lyonne can save this for me #also the knowledge that he's an ep on the new david benioff and dan weiss show...............#lowkey think he's probably a good fit for that inevitable hack job

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tv-moments · 3 days

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3 Body Problem

Season 1, “Countdown”

Director: Derek Tsang

DoP: Jonathan Freeman, Richard Donnelly

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thenerdsofcolor · 1 month

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Rosalind Chao & Zine Tseng on Crafting a Complex Character for '3 Body Problem'

Rosalind Chao & Zine Tseng on Crafting a Complex Character for '3 Body Problem' @3body @netflix #3BodyProblem

The phenomenon known as 3 Body Problem is sweeping Netflix! And we were lucky enough to recently chat with some of the cast from this remarkable show. We previously debuted our interview with the delightful Jess Hong. And today, we’d like to share our interview with two of the show’s brilliant actresses: Rosalind Chao and Zine Tseng! Continue reading Rosalind Chao & Zine Tseng on Crafting a…

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#3 Body Problem #Benedict Wong #David Benioff #DB Weiss #Eiza Gonzalez #Jess Hong #John Bradley #Jovan Adepo #Liam Cunningham #Liu Cixin #Netflix #Rian Johnson #Rosalind Chao #science fiction #Streaming #Three Body Problem #Trailers #Zine Tseng

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mlobsters · 1 month

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watched the first episode of 3 body problem, this bit of sound design reminded me of contact. it's not that similar, it's a lot slower than the contact signal and something like this is definitely used in other media, but context got my ears perked up (and i love contact very much, need to dig up my dvd)

3 body problem s1e1 / contact (1997)

and the teaser for the rest of the season also gave me little vibes of my favorite scifi novels pandora's star and judas unchained, by peter f hamilton. which i'd love to see adapted and would be... incredibly challenging because of the scope that he writes in (just those two novels are a combined 1800+ pages 😵‍💫)

anyway, i love scifi, and this seems to be getting the prestige treatment so i'm curious to see how it goes. i did try to read the book back ages ago, but didn't finish it due to brain/depression book reading difficulties

#3 body problem #contact 1997 #musical score #ramin djawadi #alan silvestri #definitely flinched a little at benioff and weiss being involved but reminding myself they did very well when they had actual books to adap

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stuff-diary · 1 month

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3 Body Problem

TV Shows/Dramas watched in 2024

3 Body Problem (Season 1, 2024, USA)

Creators: David Benioff, D.B. Weiss & Alexander Woo (based on the trilogy by Liu Cixin)

Directors: Derek Tsang, Andrew Stanton, Minkie Spiro & Jeremy Podeswa

Mini-review:

As a huge fan of any story related to aliens, conspiracies and all that stuff, I couldn't miss out on this show. And, thankfully, I enjoyed it a lot. One of my favorite things is that it focuses mostly on the scientific aspects of the plot, instead of throwing a bunch of senseless action scenes into every episode. It's not like there aren't any set pieces, but they're just not the focus at all. The whole cast does a pretty solid job, but the standout is without a doubt newcomer Zine Tsang; her performance is stunning, even though she's only in half of the episodes. Tbh, my biggest complaint is that the CGI leaves much to be desired, considering all the resources that went into making this show. And also, given the concept, I think the show could have been a lot more adventurous in terms of visuals. But still, 3 Body Problem was a pretty good sci-fi show. I hope we get to see more, but if we don't, I'll probably check out the original books.

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