#Philostratus the Elder

[deathlessathanasia]

Kinda curious why did Theseus abandon Ariadne

Various reasons are given:

He was in love with someone else, a woman named Aigle: „she was abandoned by Theseus because he loved another woman: --Dreadful indeed was his passion for Aigle child of Panopeus.” This verse Peisistratus expunged from the poems of Hesiod, according to Hereas the Megarian, …” (Plutarch, Life of Theseus 20);

It was an accident and he came back after her: „He [Paeon the Amathusian] says that Theseus, driven out of his course by a storm to Cyprus, and having with him Ariadne, who was big with child and in sore sickness and distress from the tossing of the sea, set her on shore alone, but that he himself, while trying to succour the ship, was borne out to sea again. The women of the island, accordingly, took Ariadne into their care, and tried to comfort her in the discouragement caused by her loneliness, brought her forged letters purporting to have been written to her by Theseus, ministered to her aid during the pangs of travail, and gave her burial when she died before her child was born. Paeon says further that Theseus came back, and was greatly afflicted, and left a sum of money with the people of the island, enjoining them to sacrifice to Ariadne, and caused two little statuettes to be set up in her honor, one of silver, and one of bronze.” ((Plutarch, Life of Theseus 20);

He didn't abandon her, Dionysos simply took her from him: „[Theseus] carried off Ariadne from Crete and sailed out unobserved during the night, after which he put in at the island which at that time was called Dia, but is now called Naxos. At this same time, the myths relate, Dionysos showed himself on the island, and because of the beauty of Ariadne he took the maiden away from Theseus …” (Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4.61.5); „And by night [Theseus] arrived with Ariadne and the children at Naxos. There Dionysus fell in love with Ariadne and carried her off; … In his grief on account of Ariadne, Theseus forgot to spread white sails on his ship when he stood for port; and Aegeus, seeing from the acropolis the ship with a black sail, supposed that Theseus had perished; so he cast himself down and died.” (Apollodorus, Epitome);

He abandoned her because Dionysos threatened him into doing so: „Theseus, seeing in a dream Dionysos threatening him if he would not forsake Ariadne in favour of the god, left her behind him there [on Naxos] in his fear and sailed away.” (Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 5.51.4); „That Theseus treated Ariadne unjustly--though some say not with unjust intent, but under the compulsion of Dionysos--when he abandoned her while asleep on the island of Dia” (Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.15);

He abandoned her because he feared disapproval if he were to bring her to Athens: „Theseus, detained by a storm on the island of Dia, thought it would be a reproach to him if he brought Ariadne to Athens, and so he left her asleep on the island of Dia.” (Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 43);

Alternatively, he didn't abandon her at all, but she was killed by Artemis apparently as a favor for Dionysos, in which case she was probably already the consort of the god when she got involved with Theseus: „Ariadne, that daughter of subtle Minos whom Theseus bore off from Crete towards the hill of sacred Athens; yet he had no joy of her, since, before that could be, she was slain by Artemis in the isle of Dia because of the witness of Dionysos.” (Homer, Odyssey 11.320).

#ask #theseus #ariadne #greek mythology

[gotstabbedbyapen]

Hyacinthus Iceberg Meme EXPLAIN (P1)

Part 1 ✿ Part 2 ✿ Part 3 ✿ Part 4 ✿ Part 5

It's time for me to answer your questions about this Hyacinthus iceberg meme. There is a lot to tackle, so I'll divide it into 5 parts for the sake of my sanity.

Quick disclaimer: I am NOT an expert in Greek mythology, just a fan of Hyacinthus who wants to learn about him and anyone related to him. Most of the things I'm about to discuss are just theories and speculations of a passerby on the Internet, so do not take them as valid facts!

Hyacinthus is Apollo's (boy)friend who died from a discus

We all know this. In almost every account that mentions Hyacinthus, we only have one paragraph about him that says he's beloved by Apollo, who accidentally killed him with a discus and turned him into a flower.

"[...] rich-tressed Diomede; and she bears Hyakinthos, the blameless one and strong […] whom, on a time Phoebus himself slew unwittingly with a ruthless disk." - Hesiod, "Catalogues of Women"

"They tell how this Hyakinthos was loved by Apollon, who accidentally killed him while hurling a discus." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

"'You are fallen in your prime defrauded of your youth, o Hyakinthos!' Moaned Apollo. 'I can see in your sad wound my own guilt, and you are my cause of grief and self-reproach. My own hand gave you death unmerited - I only can be charged with your destruction.'" - Ovid, "Metamorphoses"

Zephyrus killed Hyacinthus

Another common version of Hyacinthus' death is that he is killed by Zephyrus, the West Wind. Zephyrus is jealous that Hyacinthus chose Apollo over him, so he pulls the classic "if I can't have him, no one can" move.

"A lout is Zephyros (the West Wind), who was angry with Apollon and caused the discus to strike the youth, and the scene seems a laughing matter to the wind and he taunts the god from his look-out." -Philostratus the Elder, "Imagines"

"Zephyros who just shows his savage eye from his place of look-out - by all this, the painter suggests the death of the youth, and as Apollon makes his cast, Zephyros, by breathing athwart its course, will cause the discus to strike Hyakinthos." - Philostratus the Younger, "Imagines"

"The death-bringing breath of Zephyros might blow again, as it did once before when the bitter blast killed a young man while it turned the hurtling quoit against Hyakinthos." - Nonnus, "Dionysiaca"

Even though this version is more popular than the tragic accident version, there are theories that Zephyrus' role in the story is a later addition. Apollo killing Hyacinthus should be the focus of the myth, and I will explain this in the section about deity Hyacinthus.

Hyacinthus is from Amyclae (Sparta)

Hyacinthus is a prince of Sparta. He must have lived and died in the city of Amyclae because this is where his tomb/shrine and intensity of worship are.

"Hyacinthus, the youngest and most beautiful of [Amyclas'] sons, died before his father, and his tomb is in Amyclae below the image of Apollo." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"[...] at the Hyacinthia, before the sacrifice to Apollo, they devote offerings to Hyacinthus as to a hero into this altar through a bronze door [...]" - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

In Ovid's Metamorphosis, Apollo abandoned his shrine to hang out with Hyacinthus by the Eurotas River.

"And [Apollo] for [Hyakinthos] was deeper than he felt for others. Delphi, the center of the world, had no presiding guardian, while the god frequented the Eurotas and the land of Sparta [...]" - Ovid, "Metamorphosis"

And guess what? Amyclae is next to the Eurotas River!

(Map taken from Wikipedia)

Hyacinthus' most popular siblings: Polyboea, Argalus, Cynortus

Hyacinthus is one of King Amyclas' children, possibly his youngest son. Who are other siblings is different in each account, but Polyboea, Argalus, and Cynortus are the most popular.

"On the death of Amyclas, the empire came to Aigalus, the eldest of his sons, and afterward, when Aigalus died, to Cynortas. Cynortas had a son Oebalus." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"They are carrying to heaven Hyacinthus and Polyboea, the sister, they say, of Hyacinthus, who died a maid." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"But many say that Perieres was not the son of Aeolus but of Cynortas, son of Amyclas." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

Polyboea is Hyacinthus' sister, who was resurrected and immortalized with him. Artemis is one of the deities who helped her and her brother, so she must have had the goddess' favor. However, it's never explicitly said that Polyboea becomes a huntress of Artemis.

The assumption is understandable because Polyboea died and revived into a maiden, so it makes sense she will follow Artemis like other girls (Iphigenia, Aspalis, etc.). Furthermore, Polyboea is often identified with another Spartan princess who becomes a virgin huntress: Phylonoe, one of the daughters of Tyndareus and her great-grandniece.

For Argalus and Cynortus, AFAIK they are the kings of Sparta after their father's death. Through them, Hyacinthus is related to other heroes and heroines (we will get to it in their section)

Argalus seems to be featured alone in another work: "Argalus and Parthenia" by Henry Glapthorne, which tells the love story of the titular couple. But whether or not the Argalus in this novel is the Spartan king Argalus is still up for debate.

Hyacinthus x Thamyris

Thamyris, the first man to fall in love with another man and Hyacinthus' presumably first love.

"Thamyris, son of Philammon and the Nymphe Argiope, the first male to love other males, fell in love with Hyakinthos. Later on, Apollon, who also loved him, accidentally killed him with a discus." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

Other than that, we know that he is a skilled musician, inventing the Dorian mode and being made a king purely because his lyre-playing skill.

However, Thamyris also died because of music. He boasts that his skill surpass the Muses, ended up engaging in a contest against the goddesses, lost, and severely punished for his hubris.

"The river [Balyra] is said to have got its name from Thamyris throwing his lyre (ballein) away here after his blinding." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"And Dorion, famed for Thamyris' disgrace, Superior once of all the tuneful race, Till, vain of mortals' empty praise, he strove To match the seed of cloud-compelling Jove! [...] The avenging Muses of the light of day Deprived his eyes, and snatched his voice away; No more his heavenly voice was heard to sing, His hand no more awaked the silver string." - Homer, "The Iliad"

It is also said that Apollo falsely accused him with the Muses because he wants to get rid of a competitor for Hyacinthus' hand (dick move, Apollo)

But I can only find this version in the book "Lovers Legends - The Gay Greek Myths" by Andrew Calimach. I don't consider it a valid source due to it being a collection of myth retellings but add in anyways.

"Apollo, however, thought it wise to rid himself of Thamyris first. He did not have to lift a finger: He simply told the Muses about the poet's boast. Furious, for they had been the ones to inspire Thamyris all along, the goddesses rushed down and punished the poet for his pride. As his mother looked on, dumbstruck, they ripped away his voice, his sight, and all memory of music." - Andrew Calimach, "Lovers Legends - The Gay Greek Myths"

If anyone has any ancient Greek sources about Apollo's snitching on Thamyris, please let me know!

Hyacinthus' less popular siblings: Laodamia, Harpalus, Hegesandra

Hyacinthus' lesser known siblings have one or two mentions about them, mostly by Pausanias.

"The mother of this Triphylus was not Erato, but Laodamia, the daughter of Amyclas, king of Lacedaemon." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

Laodamia is also known as Leanira, according to Apollodorus. But like the case of Argalus in Henry Glapthorne's novel, there is no 100% guarantee they are the same person, and Hyacinthus might have another sister.

"Arcas had two sons, Elatus and Aphidas, by Leanira, daughter of Amyclas [...]" - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

"Agenor, the father of Preugenes, was the son of Areus, the son of Ampyx, and Ampyx was a son of Pelias, the son of Aeginetes, the son of Dereites, the son of Harpalus, the son of Amyclas, the son of Lacedaemon." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

(reading this family lineage gives me a stroke)

Hegesandra is a little trickier to track down. I don't like using Wikipedia as a source because it can funky sometimes, but it's the only place I can find a slight mention of Hegesandra:

"Hegesandra married Argeius, son of King Pelops of Pisa. The couple had three sons: Melanion, Alector and Boethoos." (Wikipedia)

Hyacinthus' parentage

Hyacinthus has several sets of parents depends on each writer.

The most popular one is King Amyclas and Queen Diomede. I find this parentage the most believable and "canon" (for a lack of better words) because Hyacinthus is mainly worshiped in Amyclae, the city founded by his father, as said before.

"Amyclas and Lapithes' daughter Diomede had Cynortas and Hyakinthos. They tell how this Hyakinthos was loved by Apollon, who accidentally killed him while hurling a discus." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

In the second another version, the Muse Clio and King Pierus are Hyacinthus' parents.

"Aphrodite, furious with Clio (who had chided her for loving Adonis), caused her to fall in love with Magnes' son Pierus. As a result of their union she bore him a son Hyakinthos." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

The third version has Oebalus as Hyacinthus' father, which is funny because it is commonly agreed that Oebalus is Hyacinthus' nephew through Cynortas.

"[Apollo lamenting to Hermes] No. I grieve for my beloved; the Lakonian, the son of Oebalus." - Lucian, "Dialogues of the Gods"

"Well, he says that he is Hyakinthos, the son of Oebalus; and now that we have learned this we must also know the reason for the god's [Apollo's] presence." - Philostratus the Younger, "Imagines"

However, there is a Thessalian version of Hyacinthus, where he is renamed into "Hymenaeus" and his father is King Magnes of Magnesia. We will discuss the relation between Hyacintus and Hymenaeus in their section.

"He had a son of remarkable beauty, Hymenaeus. And when Apollon saw the boy, he was seized with love for him, and would not leave the house of Magnes." - Hesiod, "The Great Eoiae"

TO BE CONTINUED

#hyacinthus #greek gods #greek deities #greek mythology #iceberg meme explain #long post #my ramblings #my theories #analysis #this is the biggest hyperfixation thing i've ever done

[coloricioso]

First of all, your art is beautiful. Secondly, I was surprised to find someone who ships Agamemnon and Cassandra since the usual interpretation of their relationship is quite negative to say the least. Would you mind sharing some of your thoughts around this relationship? I’ve actually been working on an Agamemnon novel and am struggling with handling his relationship with Cassandra tactfully but as accurately as possible. Thank you so much!

Hi! Thank you so much <3. Unfortunately, nearly all modern interpretations villainize Agamemnon, therefore people think it's impossible that Cassandra can have a bond with him, but for the ancients it was different. I had written before about this and here is my CassandaxAgamemnon master post, but I will summarize some things:

Homer's Odyssey and Aeschylus' Agamemnon are proof of how these characters had a special bond. In the Odyssey, the soul of Agamemnon remembers Cassandra's death as the most pitiful one; she was meaningful to him. He doesn't describe anyone's specific death but hers. He thinks of her, even after he is long dead. And something SUPER important that people always forget!! Agamemnon DIES trying to save Cassandra. He tries to stop Clytemnestra from murdering Cassandra and tries to lift his arm to take the sword away, but he dies before he is able to save Cassandra. For the ancients, the fact that Cassandra was on top of Agamemnon or holding him when she was murdered was something "visually" meaningful, like, they're united by their deaths (this is something scholar Gina Salapata mentions). It's also important that this shows how Homer took time to honor Cassandra. Philostratus The Elder describes a painting that was based on the Odyssey, and he says that Cassandra, in the painting, is shielding Agamemnon and putting her sacred priestess garlands on him, as a way to protect him and saving him from getting murdered. So, there was a tradition of seeing Cassandra and Agamemnon as a couple, and in Amiklai they received religious / hero cult as a couple.

Then, somehow when people claim to have read Aeschylus' play, they absolutely ignore or forget that through the entire play, Cassandra is shown as very loyal to Agamemnon, and totally compassionate for his fate. She feels sad because Agamemnon ignores his coming death (and she is unable to warn him) and she even says she will go "cry" his death and her own, she cries both as equal things. And Cassandra curses her and Agamemnon's murderers (if she hated Agamemnon she wouldn't care to avenge him by cursing his killers). Instead of running away, she is brave and goes inside the palace to join him in death (*as far as I recall, women in Greek myth who die for a man are always either i) relatives of that man or ii) romantic partners; I don't recall a woman offering to die willingly for a man who means nothing to her). She complains about Apollo's mistreatment, but she never complains about Agamemnon in any way.

Even if someone thinks the romantic part is up for debate, the sources are very clear about how empathy, compassion, and loyalty were key themes for Agamemnon and Cassandra's relationship. Their relationship was never depicted as one based on hatred and mistreatment. The only "twist" to the traditional portrayal was Euripides' Trojan Women where Cassandra takes her union with Agamemnon as a ritual inversion of marriage, she appropriates his death as a heroic act to avenge Troy's fall. But Euripides’ take is "revolutionary" in this topic, this was not the traditional portrayal, and his play was meant to be a criticism against war (because of his specific life context). Other Euripides' plays though, don't show Agamemnon-Cassandra as being hostile to each other (in Hecuba we're told that Agamemnon is in love with Cassandra and willing to protect her, and her family too; and even in the Trojan Woman we're told Agamemnon is in love with her).

Juliette Davreux and Sabina Mazzoldi are scholars who wrote specialized books about Cassandra's myth, and both say that the ancients did think of Agamemnon and Cassandra as a couple; the difference is that Davreux claims the love bond was already present in Aeschylus; she says that Cassandra was "secretly" in love with Agamemnon, while Mazzoldi says Aeschylus' play is not that obvious on the love part which comes in later traditions. I personally agree with Davreux, because a woman willing to die along with a man is usually a wife or a concubine, besides, it's a historical fact that Aeschylus didn't like turning his plays into love dramas like Euripides does, even Aristophanes joked about it (like Euripides complains to Aeschylus that "there is no Aphrodite in your plays"). So, I think that Aeschylus gave hints for Agamemnon and Cassandra being much more than a master-slave, but Cassandra's feelings are shown in a noble and sober way. :3 hope this helps.

#cassandra #agamemnon

[camcorderrevival]

AMY POND + MYTHOLOGICAL/LITERARY FIGURES

[ EVE: Apple (symbol), Rubens || PANDORA: Pandora - study and analysis, Alexandre Cabanel, Hesiod (trans. Evelyn-White) || CASSANDRA: Smyrnaeus’ The Fall of Troy, Philostratus the Elder, Imagines, Book 2.10,  Aeschylus’ Agamemnon, Cassandra Float Can (video), || CATHERINE EARNSHAW: Wuthering Heights, || WENDY DARLING: Peter and Wendy, J.M. Barrie, Wendy’s Story, Jessica Hedrick || ELEANOR VANCE: Absolute Reality and the Role of the Ineffable, The Haunting of Hill House, Spectrality and Trauma ]

#long long post <3 #anyways the cassandra ones in particular drive me mad - that's literally her #Doctor Who #Amy Pond #Amy Pond Unrelated Media Universe #web weaving #parallels #11th Doctor

[medievildead]

Anyways!!! YEAH FINE I'LL POST GOW OC'S!!!!!! Yeah its greeksaga1!!!!! Bite me!!!!!!!!!! (Its NONSEXUAL nudity Tumblr don't bite me this is ANCIENT GREECE)

This is Palaistra, one of the many daughters of Hermes in mythology. In a translation of works by Philostratus the Elder she was described as basically super buff, super butch and super tan. So here she is! Wahoo!!!!

She's modelled after her dada though more akin size wise to gow3 hercules (though still shorter than hercules bc of her manlet dad genes)

AGAIN!!!! THIS IS NONSEXUAL NUDITY!!!!! A CHARACTER FROM ANCIENT GREECE! I had to censor this drawing even though literally nothing was showing other than nipples and hair. Literally. I hate tumblr so much

#god of war #palaistra #god of war 3 #hermes gow #hermes #gow #gow 3

[thegrapeandthefig]

What brought you to focus on Thasos?

It really took this question to realize I never addressed this, even though I thought I did. In short, it all came down to one inscription found on the island.

The inscription itself has long been considered “unpublished”, which in this case meant it had been translated once, in French, in the 1960s, by the archaeologists and historians who were working on excavating Thasos at the time. In the 90s, Swiss historian Anne-Francoise Jaccottet wrote a thesis on Dionysiac associations in the Greco-Roman world, and that’s where I found it first. Getting my hands on the thesis alone was a strike of luck, since when I began looking for it (because I saw it often cited in papers I’d read) it was only available on command from the university for a price in the 100s of euros. Until, in 2020, the author herself put the whole thing on academia.edu for free. Happenstance and all that.

Anyway, the reason why this particular inscription caught my attention out of the whole corpus of documents in the thesis was that it described vividly something linked to a UPG I had months prior. At the time I took note of the inscription as something to come back to later because I wasn’t sure what to do with the info. Confirmation was nice, but truly had no idea what to do with it.

A year or so later, I noticed that the same author had written and - again - put online for free, an article from 2018 on that specific inscription in collaboration with Stephanie Wyler (whose line of work tends to revolve around Dionysus in the roman context) and on the same element that resonated with my UPG. That is, the idea of a canopy of greenery/vines as an important ephemeral setup for worship, which is something that we can also catch glimpses of in literature:

“The flame, dividing, dimly outlines a cave for Dionysus more charming than any in Assyria and Lydia; for sprays of ivy grow luxuriantly about it and clusters of ivy berries and now grape-vines and stalks of thyrsus which spring up from the willing earth, so that some grow in the very fire.” - Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.13 (or 1.14 on theoi.com), 3rd century AD

The Thasian inscription, however, dates back from the 1st century AD and is a private dedication of a sanctuary to Dionysus from a man named Timokleides. He is described as being a doctor from Thasos and as being at the head of the dionysiac association (thiasos) that would be using this sanctuary. I could do a whole post about this alone, but the point is that it’s from there that I got the hutch to look at where the inscription came from in the first place.

That research led me to the realization that it was a very documented island, in big part because it has been excavated for decades but also because the ancient city/island used to be renowned for its wine, its marble and its gold, thanks to nearby mines on the Thracian coast. It led me to see that the calendar was in a workable state, that we had a decent list of attested festival and a very fair number of smaller sacrifial rules and miscellaneous inscriptions.

Another, more personal, reason why Thasos was a good fit was the geographical proximity with Lampsakos, Thrace and Moesia Inferior where I have (limited) elements concerning the presence of Priapus. Thasos is also known for having important examples of thysia, that is sacrifices for heroes in which the sacrifices were eaten by the worshippers, which goes against what is typically described as the norm in ancient Greek religion on a larger scale, but which also line up more closely with my personal experience.

All of these factors combined made Thasos a particularly good match for me. It felt a lot like finally putting together mismatched pieces of information into something that made sense.

#this is a mess of a post because there's just so many small little things #but overall it just worked out very well #thasian recon

[royal-wren]

For today I'd like to put the spotlight on Hermaphroditos' half-sibling (by Hermes) Palaistra, the nonbinary daimona of wrestling. I think it'd be nice to give her some attention too today instead of other figures that are more popular and come to mind before her.

"The place is Arkadia, the most beautiful part of Arkadia and that in which Zeus takes most delight--we call it Olympia--and as yet there is no prize for wrestling nor even any love of wrestling, but there will be. For Palaistra, the daughter of Hermes, who has just come to womanhood in Arkadia, has discovered the art, and the earth seems to rejoice at the discovery, since iron as an instrument of war will be laid aside by men during the truce, and the stadium will seem to them more delightful than armed camps, and with naked bodies they will content with each other. The kinds of wrestling are represented as children. For they leap sportively around Palaistra, bending towards her in one wrestler's posture after another; and they may be sprung from the earth, for the maiden shows by her manly aspect that she would neither marry any man willingly nor bear children. The kinds of wrestling differ from one another; indeed, the best is the one combined with boxing.

The figure of Palaistra, if it be compared with a boy, will be that of a girl; but if it be taken for a girl, it will seem to be a boy. For her hair is too short even to be twisted into a knot; the eye might be that of either sex; and the brow indicates disdain for both lovers and wrestlers; for she claims that she is able to resist both the one and the other and that not even in a wrestling bout could anyone touch her breasts, so much does she excel in the art. And the breasts themselves, as in a boy of tender years, show but slight signs of beginning fullness. She cares for nothing feminine; hence she does not even wish to have white arms, and apparently even disapproves of the Dryades because they stay in the shade to keep their skin fair; nay, as one who lives in the vales of Arkadia, she begs Helios (the Sun) for color, and he brings it to her like a flower and reddens the girl with moderate heat. It shows the skill of the painter, my boy, that the maiden is sitting, for there are most shadows on seated figures, and the seated position is distinctly becoming to her; the branch of olive on her bare bosom is also becoming her. Palaistra apparently delights in this tree, since its oil is useful in wrestling and men find great pleasure in it."

Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 2. 32 (trans. Fairbanks) (Greek rhetorician C3rd A.D.) *source

If you have any lesser-known figures you want to be highlighted feel free to reblog and make any additions. It would be really cool to see others added.

#hellenic polytheism #helpol

[readysetimready]

Pindar, Nemean Ode 1. 61 ff :

"[After the infant Herakles strangled the serpents, his stepfather Tyndareos (Tyndareus summoned the seer Teiresias (TIresias) who prophesied the child's future :) Teiresias who then declared to him [Tyndareos] and all the gathered host, what chance of fortunes Herakles should encounter; of monsters merciless how many on the dry land, how many of the sea he should destroy; and of mankind, whom bent upon the path of pride and treachery he should consign to an accursed death. This too he told : ... He [Herakles] in peace for all time shall enjoy, in the home of the blessed, leisure unbroken, a recompense most choice for his great deeds of toil; and winning the lovely Hebe for his bride, and sharing his marriage feast beside Zeus, son of Kronos (Cronus), shall live to grace his august law."

Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 2. 20 (trans. Fairbanks) (Greek rhetorician C3rd A.D.) :

"Before long you [Herakles] will live with them in the sky, drinking, and embracing the beautiful Hebe (Youth); for you are to marry the youngest of the gods and the one most revered by them,since it is through her that they also are young."

Propertius, Elegies 1. 13 (trans. Goold) (Roman elegy C1st B.C.) :

"The passion of Hercules [Herakles], all afire for divine Hebe, tasted its first raptures after he had burned on an Oetean pyre."

#hebe #herakles #research #greek gods #greek mythology

[dwollfieldnotes]

Indian Unicorn

Indica by Ctesias (5th Century BC)

In India there are wild asses, larger than horses, with a single horn on their forehead

The body is white, the head is dark red, the eyes bluish, the horn is white at the base, black, and then flaming red at the tip

Cups made from their horns protect the drinker from convulsions, epilepsy, and all poisons

Have huckle-bones/ankle-bones resembling an ox and a gall-bladder

These ankle-bones are heavy like lead and colored like cinnabar

Stronger and swifter than any other quadruped

Unable to be captured alive

Protect their colts by surrounding them while the graze, like musk-oxen

Flesh is too bitter, they are hunted for their horns and huckle-bones

Natural History by Pliny the Elder (77)

Lives in India

Cannot be taken alive by any hunter

Head of a stag, feet of an elephant, tail of a boar, the rest resembles a regular horse/ass

Makes a deep, low rumbling noise

Has a single black horn, two cubits in length, projecting from the middle of its forehead

Life of Apollonius of Tyana by Philostratus (170 – 245)

They dwell near the marshes of the Indian River Hyrdoates

Wild asses with horns on their foreheads

Can be used to butt like bulls and make a sport of battling any beast that tries them

If a cup is made of this horn it will have many properties

Anyone who drinks from the cup cannot be made sick on the same day he drank from it [all of these properties last one day, and one must drink from it every day for the properties to carry over]

He is immune to poison

He can pass through fire unharmed

He will be no worse for being wounded

These goblets are reserved for kings, and only they are allowed to hunt unicorns

Apollonius said he once encountered a unicorn and met an immortal king in India, who drank from the cup every day, and he could not blame him for his intoxication

On Animals by Aelian (2nd century)

Cites Ctesias

India is home to one-horned horses and asses

If drinking vessels are made from their horns, any poison put within them is rendered harmless

They are asses as large as horses

All white, with a head approaching purple, and dark blue eyes

Horn is on the forehead a cubit and a half long; lower part is white, middle part is jet black, and upper part is crimson

Rich Indians make drinking-horns from these, decorating them with gold rings

Anyone who drinks from these will be protected from epilepsy and incurable diseases. If he had ingested poison previously, he'll vomit it up and be fine

Have knuckle-bones, jet black, unseen in animals with uncloven hooves [odd-toed ungulates/horses]

Faster than any deer or horse

The asses live in herds of dams and their colts, led by a single sire guarding them

Inhabit the most desolate plains of India

When fighting hunters, their horns are able to shatter any weapon set against them. Their horns have been used to disembowel horses and kill men. They kick fiercely and their bites tear at flesh

Cannot be caught alive

Their meat is inedible, far too bitter

#myth stuff #mythical creature #mythical creatures #mythology #unicorn #indian unicorn #monoceros

[legend-collection]

Monopods

Monopods (also called sciapods, skiapods, skiapodes) were mythological dwarf-like creatures with a single, large foot extending from a leg centred in the middle of their bodies. The names monopod and skiapod (σκιάποδες) are both Greek, respectively meaning "one-foot" and "shadow-foot".

Monopods appear in Aristophanes' play The Birds, first performed in 414 BC. They are described by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History, where he reports travelers' stories from encounters or sightings of Monopods in India. Pliny remarks that they are first mentioned by Ctesias in his book Indika, a record of the view of Persians of India which only remains in fragments. Pliny describes Monopods like this:

He [Ctesias] speaks also of another race of men, who are known as Monocoli, who have only one leg, but are able to leap with surprising agility. The same people are also called Sciapodae, because they are in the habit of lying on their backs, during the time of the extreme heat, and protect themselves from the sun by the shade of their feet.

Philostratus mentions Skiapodes in his Life of Apollonius of Tyana, which was cited by Eusebius in his Treatise Against Hierocles. Apollonius of Tyana believes the Skiapodes live in India and Ethiopia, and asks the Indian sage Iarkhas about their existence.

St. Augustine (354–430) mentions the "Skiopodes" in The City of God, Book 16, Chapter 8 entitled "Whether Certain Monstrous Races of Men Are Derived From the Stock of Adam or Noah's Sons", and mentions that it is uncertain whether such creatures exist.

Reference to the legend continued into the Middle Ages, for example with Isidore of Seville in his Etymologiae, where he writes:

The race of Sciopodes are said to live in Ethiopia; they have only one leg, and are wonderfully speedy. The Greeks call them σκιαπόδες ("shade-footed ones") because when it is hot they lie on their backs on the ground and are shaded by the great size of their foot.

The Hereford Mappa Mundi, drawn c. 1300, shows a sciapod on one side of the world, as does a world map drawn by Beatus of Liébana (c. 730 – c. 800).

A race of the "One-Legged",or the "Uniped" was allegedly encountered by Thorfinn Karlsefni and his group of Icelandic settlers in North America in the early 11th century, according to the Saga of Erik the Red. The presence of "unipedes maritimi" in Greenland was marked on Claudius Clavus's map dated 1427.

According to the saga, Karlsefni Thorvald Eiriksson and others assembled a search party for Thorhall, and sailed around Kjalarnes and then south. After sailing for a long time, while moored on the south side of a west-flowing river, they were shot at by a one-footed man (einfœtingr), and Thorvald died from an arrow wound.

The saga goes on to relate that the party went northward and approached what they guessed to be Einfœtingaland ("Land of the One-Legged" or "Country of the Unipeds").

According to Carl A. P. Ruck, the Monopods's cited existence in India refers to the Vedic Aja Ekapad ("Not-born Single-foot"), an epithet for Soma. Since Soma is a botanical deity the single foot would represent the stem of an entheogenic plant or fungus.

John of Marignolli (1338–1353) provides another explanation of these creatures. Quote from his travels from India:

The truth is that no such people do exist as nations, though there may be an individual monster here and there. Nor is there any people at all such as has been invented, who have but one foot which they use to shade themselves withal. But as all the Indians commonly go naked, they are in the habit of carrying a thing like a little tent-roof on a cane handle, which they open out at will as a protection against sun or rain. This they call a chatyr; I brought one to Florence with me. And this it is which the poets have converted into a foot.

— 

#monopods #greece #mediterranean

[sarafangirlart]

According to Philostratus the Elder, Hebe was the youngest of the gods and the one responsible for keeping them eternally young, and thus was the most revered by them. So Hebe confirmed baby of the bunch and is such the doted little sister.

If Hebe was the reason they all stayed young how did they manage before she was born? Whatever Greek mythology is weird but she’s definitely deeply loved by everyone.

#greek mythology #greek pantheon #ancient greek mythology #hebe goddess #hebe #hebe Greek mythology

[deathlessathanasia]

do you think that women in Ancient Greece had different opinions and stories about the gods that differed men

I mean, it's not like all men told the same stories or shared the same opinions about the gods, but regardless I doubt women's stories and views concerning the gods were radically different. I find it very likely that women also played an important role in the transmission of traditional mythological narratives. It seems, for instance, that people could have first heard the myths as children from their nurses: „That Theseus treated Ariadne unjustly--though some say not with unjust intent, but under the compulsion of Dionysos--when he abandoned her while asleep on the island of Dia, you must have heard from your nurse; for those women are skilled in telling such tales and they weep over them whenever they will.” (Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.15)

Ultimately it's impossible to say, but here's an interesting read on the subject: Women's Work: Female Transmission of Mythical Narrative

#ask #ancient greece #ancient greek women

[gotstabbedbyapen]

Hyacinthus Iceberg Meme EXPLAIN (P3)

Part 1 ✿ Part 2 ✿ Part 3 ✿ Part 4 ✿ Part 5

It's time for me to answer your questions about this Hyacinthus iceberg meme. There is a lot to tackle, so I'll divide it into 5 parts for the sake of my sanity.

Quick disclaimer: I am NOT an expert in Greek mythology, just a fan of Hyacinthus who wants to learn about him and anyone related to him. Most of the things I'm about to discuss are just theories and speculations of a passerby on the Internet, so do not take them as valid facts!

Daphne is Hyacinthus' sister

There is only one poet who wrote about Daphne being Hyacinthus' sister. Well, it's not explicitly stated but he claimed Daphne was a daughter of King Amyclas and lived in Laconia, so it's not hard to piece it all together.

"This is how the story of Daphne, the daughter of Amyklas (Amyclas), is related. [...] But she got together a large pack of hounds and used to hunt either in Lakonia (Laconia) or sometimes going into the further mountains of the Peloponnese." - Parthenius, "Love Romances"

I have a joke headcanon that Apollo loves Hyacinthus because he looks like Daphne (Hya's sister) and Hyacinthus loves Apollo because he looks like Thamyris (Apollo's grandson).

Some K-drama angsty level of romance, eh?

The accurate hyacinth flower???

This has been a debate for quite a while now. Is the flower born from Hyacinthus' death the modern hyacinth or a different flower?

Even though most of us settle for the widely-known purple hyacinth (the flowers above), many argue that the flower can also be a larkspur, an iris, or a martagon lily.

I admit I prefer Hyacinthus' flower being the purple hyacinth or at least a similar ancestor. It's because Athena used to give Odysseus a curly hairstyle like the hyacinths, and that description is similar to the modern flower.

[...] Athena poured beauty on [Odysseus]— her abundance made him taller and more robust to look at. Then, on his head, she transformed his hair, so it flowed in curls like fresh hyacinths in bloom. - Homer, "The Odyssey"

Here is a detail that got me pondering.

In the "Abduction of Persephone" myth, when Persephone is returned to Demeter, she tells her mother about the abduction and we have this:

"[...] we were playing and gathering sweet flowers in our hands, soft crocuses mingled with irises and hyacinths, and rose-blooms and lilies, marvelous to see, and the narcissus which the wide earth caused to grow yellow as a crocus." - Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter

So Persephone is collecting flowers when she is taken, and one of those flowers is the hyacinth. It's unexpected to think Apollo and Hyacinthus got together before the seasons were a thing.

Zephyrus wears hyacinths on his flower wreath

There is one account I can find that talks about this detail.

"You can see [Zephyrus], I think, with his winged temples and his delicate form; and he wears a crown of all kinds of flowers, and will soon weave the hyacinth in among them." - Philostratus the Elder, "Imagines"

It might be a simple thing, but it had me thinking. Does Zephyrus wear hyacinths in his flower crown as a reminder of his former lover (like Apollo wears laurels from Daphne's tree)? Is it out of the guilt he has later or a sadistic triumph?

We'll never know.

Chloris creates the hyacinth flowers

For those who don't know, Chloris is the goddess of flowers and the wife of Zephyrus.

We all agree that Apollo created the hyacinth flower in the memories of Hyacinthus, but Ovid claimed Chloris (or Flora, her Roman counterpart) to be the creator.

"I (Flora) first made a flower from Therapnean blood [Hyacinthus the larkspur flower], and its petal still inscribes the lament. You too, narcissus, have a name in tended gardens, unhappy in your undivided self. Why mention Crocus, Attis, or Cinyras' son, from whose wounds I made a tribute soar?" - Ovid, "Fasti"

I don't like this version not because it's a Roman source, but because having Flora/Chloris creating the flower will reduce the heart-wrenching of Apollo and Hyacinthus' myth. Apollo lost his beloved to the hands of death, so having him make the flower as a tribute to their love and to always remember him will have a bigger impact.

Apollo is Hyacinthus' uncle/granduncle/great-grandfather

Look, almost all Greek mythology couples are related in some way. Apollo and Hyacinthus are no exception.

If we have Amyclas and Diomede as Hyacinthus' parents, Apollo will be Hyacinthus' granduncle on his father's side and great-grandfather on his mother's side.

Lacedaemon (Hyacinthus' grandfather) is a son of Zeus and Taygete.

"[Eurotas] left the kingdom to Lacedaemon, whose mother was Taygete, after whom the mountain was named, while according to report his father was none other than Zeus." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

Lapithes is a son of Apollo and the father of Diomede.

"Lapithes, the son of Apollon and Stilbe, the daughter of Peneus." - Diodorus Siculus, "Library of History"

"Amyclas and Lapithes' daughter Diomede had Cynortas and Hyacinthus." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

If we have Clio as Hyacinthus' mother, Apollo will be his half-uncle because the Muses are the daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne, the Titan goddess of memory.

I guess the only way to remove incest from Apollo and Hyacinthus is to have Clio as his mother but use the version where the Muses sprang into life from four fivers made by Pegasus.

Hyacinthus is the relative/ancestor of other heroes (Perseus, Heracles, Helen, etc.)

I used to make a family tree for ten generations of the mythical Spartan family (and an additional one for Perseus and Danae).

And since Perseus is the great-grandfather of Heracles, this means Hyacinthus is an ancestor of Heracles as well.

Here are some sources to back me up:

"[...] Lelex, an aboriginal was the first king in this land, after whom his subjects were named Leleges. Lelex had a son Myles, and a younger one Polycaon. [...] On the death of Myles his son Eurotas succeeded to the throne.." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"On the death of Amyclas, the empire came to Argalus, the eldest of his sons, and afterward, when Argalus died, to Cynortas. Cynortas had a son Oebalus." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"[Oebalus] took a wife from Argos, Gorgophone the daughter of Perseus, and begat a son Tyndareus, with whom Hippocoon disputed about the kingship, claiming the throne on the ground of being the eldest. With the end of Icarius and his partisans, he had surpassed Tyndareus in power, and forced him to retire in fear." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

"To Acrisius and Eurydice, Lacedaemon's daughter, was born a daughter Danae [...] When Acrisius later learned that she had given birth to Perseus, not believing that Zeus seduced her, he cast his daughter out to sea with her son on an ark." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, "Bibliotheca"

Apollo and Hyacinthus in the Trojan War???

Oh boy. This is the part many of you are screaming for me to explain.

I'll have to disappoint you because there aren't many texts about Apollo/Hyacinthus in the Epic Cycle (at least, I can't find all of them yet). But if we bust our brains, we can draw out some shower thoughts.

Was Hyacinthus alive by the time of the Trojan War, and did he participate?

The timeline is shaky and depends on which source you're looking at. Euripides' play "Helen" mentions the Hyacinthia festival, meaning our prince was born, died, and immortalized before the Trojan War.

"They will be gathered in a dance, at long last, or in games, or in all night feasts, in honor of Hyacinth, whom Phoebus Apollo killed during a discus throwing contest." - Euripides, "Helen"

On the other hand, Lucian's "Dialogues of the Dead" said that Hyacinthus was still in the Underworld after the Trojan War.

"Menippos: Where are all the beauties, Hermes? Show me around, I am a newcomer. Hermes : I am busy, Menippos. But look over there, to your right, and you will see Hyacinthus, Narcissus, Nireus, Achilles, Tyro, Helene, Leda - all the beauties of old." - Lucian, "Dialogues of the Dead"

From Lucian's work, either Hyacinthus will be resurrected much later after the war or never at all.

If we go by the version that Hyacinthus was deified before the war, I'm sure he will side with his homeland. Hyacinthus is a favorite hero-god of Sparta and great-granduncle to Helen, so there is no reason he won't participate in the war.

That leads us to the next point:

2) Can you imagine the angst potential for Hyapollo???

National pride is a big thing for Spartans. You know how Spartans mock other city-states and uphold their people. Hyacinthus must feel utterly betrayed when Apollo is revealed to be siding with the people who stole from his homeland. He loves the god, but he loves his homeland more.

However, unlike the previous point where there are sources to draw from, we got zero records of how Apollo and Hyacinthus interacted during the war. So it has to be up to our imagination.

When Apollo sent a plague on the Greeks, did he purposefully spare the Spartans because of Hyacinthus? Did Hyacinthus tell his men to not kill the children, lovers, or favored mortals of Apollo?

Did they avoid each other when the Olympian civil conflict broke out? Did they even talk to each other at all?

And most importantly, how would they heal after the Trojan War?

3) Do the Spartans celebrate the Hyacinthia in Troy?

Now, this one is funny. The Spartans worshipped Apollo and Hyacinthus together, yet Apollo is now the enemy of Sparta.

In history, Spartans did form truces and leave the battlefields to attend the Hyacinthia festival.

"Now the Lakedaimonians (Lacedaemonians), as the festival of Hyakinthos was approaching, made a truce of forty days with the men of Eira [in Messenia]. They themselves returned home to keep the feast." - Pausanias, "Description of Greece"

But this isn't the case in the Trojan War. No sources say the Spartans desert the battlefield in Troy to go home for the festival (makes sense because they have to travel across the sea, and their queen is still trapped in Troy)

So the question is: how do they celebrate them in Troy instead? Do they even celebrate the Hyacinthia when one of the honored gods is siding against them?

Food for thought...

TO BE CONTINUED

#hyacinthus #greek gods #greek deities #greek mythology #iceberg meme explain #long post #my ramblings #my theories #analysis #sorry for the long wait guys #uni classes are unifying to beat my ass these months

[intersex-support]

Hi! I’m not intersex so feel free to ignore or answer other questions first.

I am curious about how eunuchs tie into intersex history. There seems to be a lot of similarities, but I’m not sure how or if it’s related. And I’m curious if ideas around eunuchs tie into how society treats intersex people today, or if perhaps some eunuchs were intersex people? I don’t want to speculate becuase I don’t think it’s my place, but I definitely see similarities with what you talk about.

I’m not totally sure how to frame this question because it is incredibly broad, and covers vast swaths of time and many parts of the world, but I would appreciate any information you could provide that would allow for further research or understanding.

Thank you, I hope you have a lovely day.

Hey! So it definitely is a broad question and really, really depends on the region. I can speak a little about some of the relationship between eunuchs and intersex people in Ancient Rome and Greece because I can read those languages, but I’m not an expert on there or anywhere else.

So there’s quite a few sources that talk about intersex people in conjunction with eunuchs. The Pandects, Roman laws collected by Justinian I, used eunuch as an umbrella term to describe both eunuchs by nature and eunuchs who were made (there also does seem to be some distinction between the language use of eunuchus and castratus, but I’m not convinced that eunuchus was only used to described intersex people.) At a similar time, Pliny the elder was going around recognizing that there were multiple sexes, and indeed spent a lot of time trying to classify what intersex was and how many intersex variations there were. Philostratus, who was a Greek writer who spent some time at the Roman imperial court, wrote an anecdote about this intersex person named Favorinus who was tried for adultry, and we know he’s intersex because Philostratus refers to him as “ἀνδρόθηλυς” (intersex), but he also refers to him as “εὐνοῦχος” (eunuch). There’s a few other examples, but basically, at different points in Ancient Rome it’s clear that intersex people were distinctly recognized as different than eunuch, yet often were lumped in with eunuchs in terms of legal treatment, although some of the Latin can kind of best be translated as “congenital eunuch.”

In the Archaic period, the Roman legal treatment of intersex people viewed intersex births as “prodigies” which is…not a great thing in Roman law. Trigger warning for horrific intersexism, but there’s sixteen primary sources that show some proof that some intersex children were drowned at birth as a way of appeasing the gods. This is obviously not going to be the same treatment that adult eunuchs received under Roman law, so that’s defintely a departure. There were also some reports of people who discovered that they were intersex in adulthood being killed as well, but that’s a lot fewer. Once we start getting into later eras of the republic the legal status of intersex people changes again, and the last reported intersex execution is 95 BC. After 95 BC, there’s a lot more mentions of intersex children in sources, which also shows proof that fewer are getting killed at birth. There is a gradual shift in Roman society and intersex people start getting classified as either male or female under the law, with responsibilities and rights determined by their assignment. Pliny specifically argued that intersex men should be considered semiviri and given the exact same legal rights as eunuchs. Eunuch Roman law is complex as has a lot of specific things about the extent to which someone is a Eunuch and whether or not you can marry, write a will, all of that, so it’s clear that some intersex people were legally limited in similar ways to eunuchs. Eunuchs in Roman society had a complicated role, and often times were enslaved, although some eunuchs/intersex people like Favorinus were able to have aristocratic success. So basically Roman society was really pretty bad for eunuchs or intersex people.

When it comes to the Greeks, the most information around intersex people is about the mythologic god Hermaphroditus, child of Hermes and Aphrodite, who was a beautiful, divine, and celebrated figure. We do have more positive descriptions of intersex people from sources of that time, Phlegon of Tralles, a Greek writer, described an intersex person near Antioch who was known as a beautiful maiden but than turned into a man at puberty. There’s also another intersex person who lived at Epidaurus who was described as spending his life gardening, which I think is neat. I’m not as familiar with intersex people in Ancient Greece, but it seems to be more positive. Eunuchs also had a bit of a different reception in Greek society, and I couldn’t find a lot of sources on intersex people and eunuchs and I’m just not as familiar with Greek history as Roman.

So overall, I can say confidently that in Ancient Rome, the history of eunuchs and intersex people is very intertwined, and societal response was also filled with stigma, prejudice, and violence. I’d say that it’s probably pretty likely that in other cultures and times through the world, eunuchs and intersex people have been related. I don’t know enough history about other regions, but if anyone does know I would love to hear some more. I’m not sure how much of an affect that the treatment of eunuchs really has on intersex people in the contemporary world, but I definitely think that at certain times in world history, eunuchs and intersex people were associated with each other. I listed a few sources for what I summarized about Roman law, but massive trigger warning for slurs and descriptions of violent intersexism. Here’s also a link to a post I made about the treatment of intersex people in medieval Europe (with similar trigger warnings.)

https://pressbooks.bccampus.ca/unromantest/chapter/transgender/

https://www.academia.edu/45639485/The_Legal_Treatment_of_Hermaphroditism_in_Ancient_Rome_From_Persecution_to_Integration

https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2015/09/15/favorinus-was-a-hermaphrodite-tried-for-adultery-philostratus-lives-of-the-sophists-489/amp/

#mod e #intersexism tw #murder tw #intersexist violence tw #h slur tw #ask to tag #intersex history #also sorry the summary of the Roman intersex eunuch #jumps around the timeline a lot I was not clear about the chronology or what period I’m referring to there #also fuck the Romans lol. if I see anyone glorifying Rome on this post I’ll get so mad #like they were a society that embraced slavery. they were imperialist #anyway sorry. not going to get into that on here lmao

[kingsbride-moved]

Here’s a quote I like irt Theseus and Ariadne, from Philostratus the Elder’s Imagines:

“...As for Theseus, he is indeed in love, but with the smoke rising from Athens, and he no longer knows Ariadne, and never knew her, and I am sure that he has even forgotten the labyrinth and could not tell on what possible errand he sailed to Krete, so singly is his gaze fixed on what lies ahead of his prow.”

#[ sing clear voiced muse ] #👑 | champion of my heart #[ speak my name and I appear ]

[enchanted-moura]

Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1. 6 (trans. Fairbanks) (Greek rhetorician C3rd A.D.) : "[Description of an ancient Greek painting :] Be sure that Aphrodite is there [in the apple-orchard of the Nymphai], where the Nymphai, I doubt not, have established a shrine to her, because she has made them mothers of Erotes and therefore blest in their children.

#Aphrodite #nymphai