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agentrouka-blog · 29 days

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There is a speculation that Lady's death wake Bran up from his coma. What do you think about it?

I can understand anyone who subscribes to this theory, it's entirely respectable and it makes sense on its own.

I don't share it for two reasons:

The absurdity of the timeline.

The justification of life-for-life sacrifice.

Regarding the first point, we are given a specified timeframe between the Trident incident (Lady's death) and Tyrion's arrest at the Crossroads Inn. That's two sets of fortnights travelled on the Kingsroad in direct succession (First Ned, then Cat), four weeks. In those four weeks, Bran is supposed to have woken up, a raven dispatched to the Wall to inform Jon, Tyrion staying an additional day or two, Tyrion travelling all the way from the Wall to Winterfell, which took over three weeks one-way for on their way up, then trek down the kingsroad through the other half of the North, past the Neck and then the additional distance between the Neck and the Crossroads Inn. It's absurd to me. According to my own timeline calculations, Lady is killed around the time Tyrion arrives at Winterfell, giving him those four weeks to travel from Winterfell to the Crossroads. GRRM is no stranger to presenting chapters out of chronological order and I think it very much applies here. I don't judge anyone for disagreeing but that's how I read it.

Regarding the second point, it would give narrative justification to an absolute travesty of justice that shames every single adult involved. It would imply that Lady dying served a good cause. That Ned's failings here, the Cersei's cruelty, Robert's indifference, all of these things ultimately are good and necessary. I don't think that's probable, and I also think it's unnecessary. Bran had already magically survived with the help of the living direwolves and waking up is sufficiently explained by his inner decision to live:

He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks. Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live. “Why?” Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling. Because winter is coming. Bran looked at the crow on his shoulder, and the crow looked back. It had three eyes, and the third eye was full of a terrible knowledge. Bran looked down. There was nothing below him now but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew up at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points. He was desperately afraid. “Can a man still be brave if he’s afraid?” he heard his own voice saying, small and far away. And his father’s voice replied to him. “That is the only time a man can be brave.” Now, Bran, the crow urged. Choose. Fly or die. Death reached for him, screaming. Bran spread his arms and flew. Wings unseen drank the wind and filled and pulled him upward. The terrible needles of ice receded below him. The sky opened up above. Bran soared. It was better than climbing. It was better than anything. The world grew small beneath him. “I’m flying!” he cried out in delight. I’ve noticed, said the three-eyed crow. It took to the air, flapping its wings in his face, slowing him, blinding him. He faltered in the air as its pinions beat against his cheeks. Its beak stabbed at him fiercely, and Bran felt a sudden blinding pain in the middle of his forehead, between his eyes. “What are you doing?” he shrieked. The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the blackhaired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, “He’s awake, he’s awake, he’s awake.”

Bran wakes up because he chooses to wake up, even knowing - if subconsciously - that it means serving a specific, scary purpose.

#long quote #lady the direwolf #bran stark #asoiaf timeline #magical coma

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ishgard · 3 months

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Obviously they're not dead ringers for one another, but the similarities make my brain go ajweoigjaweigjaeoigjaeg

best ancient buddies (not-quite-canonically) reunited tho. (❁´◡`❁) Was thinking about their titles "Traveler, Exile, Wanderer" in a FF10-2 "YRP" abbreviation sort of way so it was "TEW". But then I was like what if we flip it- ...ah. WET.

#mine #ahru hiraeth #arshadaya idaeus #deryk xiv #W. E. T. in position... it's showtime boys #anyway this has been in my head for an age it's out now #[arsh is actually in a magic coma tho [i think]]#also arsh's hair changes almost as much as ahru's [haha not really]#but now i'm absolutely headcanoning when he had it like this #it was inspired by ancient oschon

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fisheito · 6 months

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edmond olivine......... farm sounds edition tiny tsun obsessed with girlfriend 4x his (cup_ ) Size....

#they're friends ur honour. maybe they can even boop snoots. let's give em some privacy #i wanted edmond horse to have a fancy braided ponytail (hah)-esque mane but the ref images all came up stuff like cornrows #and uh. no. no thank u. maybe i should start looking at cartoon horses instead #MASSIVE bunny olivine. bigger than a child. as big as a horse. capable of crushing kuya in his massive fur radius #when i think of hoof buddies edoli... i cannot decide on their sizes #yes horse is typically bigger than cow (at least taller)#but i want olivine to be a giant tank. and edmond to not look like a pubescent gangly mule next to him.#scratches chin #another part of me wanted to make em more . decorated. like design em with jewellery and whatnot #but if they are just animals in a boring ol zoo sanctuary #then they . . look like boring ol animals without all the cool decor?#actually what happens when they transform into their animal forms.#do all their clothes drop on the ground. free loot?#or do the clothes stay the same size and get all messed up and morphed on the new animal form #imagining poor oli transforming while still clothed and his clothes just rip from his Volume #and he's like aw man that's the 6th shirt this month :(#realistically(?) aster would prob provide magical clothing that appropriately shifts with the form or disappears somehow. conveniently.#idk. let's have inconvenient clothes only during the transformation sequences.#for the comedy aspect #edmond allows NO ONE to ride him. NO ONE! except olivine 🥰 eiden indeed gets kicked for even approaching and now he's in a coma #actually in the scenario where edmond is a horse he would probably allow anyone (small) on provided they are civil.#no foxes. no bears. no lions. maybe a hat.#guess i'm gonna have to start tagging this if i'm gonna keep posting about it. unbeliebabvle. it's become an actual tag #zookeeper au #olivine #edmond

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blindtaleteller · 7 months

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Question about medical care in Asgard… I'm talking about a case of Odinsleep/coma. How different do you think caring for a person in a coma would be on Asgard than on Midgard?

Gonna assume you're asking about the MCU as I answer this! 💚

With a Coma/Odinsleep .. Probably not too terribly different in act for the most part IF it's being treated like a regular coma; but incredibly different in aesthetic, and well.. it does get a little more iffy when you're talking about 'Odinsleep' in particular, even with what little we do know from what's shown and said about it on screen which I say by means of examples given, both canon and deleted from it.

Some things definitely do change if you take deleted scenes from Thor 2011 into account in particular though: as one of the things they removed entirely from existence in the cutting room in that movie, was something called 'healing stones.' They actually had two portions of scenes that they shot (one in the hospital after Jane ran him over, and one just prior to the final portion of the fight with the 'Destroyer' in New Mexico.) I'll slap them in here if I can find them out of my giant clips playlist of doom.

Sticking with just the canon though; and specifically with the regular coma treatment first? The first thing you have to take into account is that there are lots of different kinds of comas, and that even Earth-tech wise, some of them are going to be treated a little differently (short, long term, caused by external injury, caused by internal injury, trauma induced are a thing too.)

That said, the first thing we have on display as far as Asgard's medical goes, is something that unsurprisingly is a repeated major portion of their basic lore in the MCU: that they aren't gods; they're an elder race who have been themselves reaching into the cosmos for eons of generations even stretching back to at least near enough to the beginning of their universe well established enough then, to take note of the fact that the Infinity Stones made at the birth of that universe, were not made by either them, or by the other elder races like the Dark Elves, or the even older Tivan brothers: with single generations lasting as long as five thousand years.

Related to that is also the fact that they by the time in their universal timeline we do catch up with them: they are very clearly a warmongering/imperial colonialist society. Even before and likely during them, Odin made a generation of wars horrible enough to be called 'The Great Wars' among the lot that he and apparently Hela (who was clearly full grown --meaning she was anywhere between 20ish and 1000 years herself-- even in her mural depictions,) to spread his version of 'peace' through the removal of what other species he percieved as threats and competition (see Muspelheim, Jotunheim) going so far as to make certain they couldn't rebuild even their capitals.

Why is that important in this conversation? Because that also means including Bor and Asgard's previous generation five thousand years prior to 2013's invasion of the elves; they had been dealing with injury, illness and more among their own resulting from those battles: and yes during those thousands of years of conflict between Bor's crusade, and Odin's: they had lots and lots of extra time to improve both their tech, and any magic along those lines.

Which yes are actually two very different things, though from the looks of it are often interconnected in Asgardian society in particular, unlike on Earth; where medical technology is foremost, and sorcery/magic has been forced basically into hiding by centuries of the many different flavors (both in religion base and name) of Inquisitions on Earth over the course of over a millennia by the time the twenty tens roll around. We also know that they do posses some limited means through technology, of suppressing some magic; but whether or not Asgard in particular has evolved their understanding of sorcery in particular to do so on a magical level is questionable at best given what we've seen between the first two films alone.

Given the blatantly similar societal distaste for most non-combative magic, and even a good portion of combative magic for that matter that's pretty likely not the case: even Thor refers to his mother's skills and knowledge as "tricks." However, that doesn't seem to apply where the "Healer's Hall" inhabitants and actual healers are involved.

Most obvious example of technological vs magic, and those limitations I mentioned above that we have is a pair of scenes in TDW: the Soul Forge in the Healer's Hall vs. Loki's full-room illusions.

Soul Forge (aka Quantum Field Generator:)

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This is also, one of the scenes that continues to show rather than tell, the MCU established facts of their advancement.. and their arrogance around it when dealing with what Asgardians otherwise clearly still consider 'lesser' races under their protection. Quite a contrast to Loki's interactions with Selvig and Barton delivering those two a great deal more dignity and trust in A1 too, while they're building the portal device ...but that's a whole other set of attached social observations and comparisons I'm not gonna get into here. The point of this one is: if there's magic there; they're making it very clear there isn't much of it, and doubling down on that whole 'not gods, only mistaken for them' far more interesting take, on which MCU Asgard was built since the very first movie. (again though, it also displays their arrogance in that direction, as Eir not only treats Jane's inquiry very dismissively; but gets flustered and gap-mouthed [literally] when she positively identifies the diagnostic technology being used. It also is one of the many displays of how differing etymology between cultures in the MCU [yes there are a few, including the Dr. Strange film as another major example of that in particular] is a purposely crafted thing.)

ANYWAY!

Compare that technological, with the feats of sorcery Loki manages in that same film. Not only does he not use tech to manage his magic/sorcery (or 'tricks' as Thor calls it lol).. but he does so behind the locked door of, that same level of technology, in his own prison cell.. and beyond it. While some of the deleted scenes show this too? The final cut certainly wasn't lacking either.

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So, all that said..? And without dipping into the whole discarded-from-canon 'Healing Stone' facet: it's very likely with a normal (or normal-ish lol) coma, that it wouldn't really be that different: just easier to some extent and probably a lot faster to correct any issues with those caused by injury in particular.

However! And most important:

Odinsleep, is something else entirely.

From the first film, we know through dialogue that not only is 'Odinsleep' not a normal coma by any means: it's one that can, has, and with the way they talk about it: SHOULD be induced every so often in order to maintain his health.

Where do we get that and why do I say 'his' in particular?

Because..

1. It is called Odinsleep, which says outright that in the MCU either Odin is a common enough name among Asgardian elder generations to be named as such OR, that it's a practice that belongs solely to Odin in particular.

2. The conversation between Loki and Frigga tell us as much, in their conversation over Odin's bed. (PS I couldn't find the full clip immediately, so I am posting the full uncut scene [with deleted parts] instead. The part that I've marked it to (timestamp 1:06 in the video below if that doesn't work for you) is what you need to listen to most, and was part of the final cut in Thor 2011.

Though the way they cut and rearranged this scene has some of that conversation out of sequence, the information given about Odinsleep remains the same in the much shorter canon conversation.

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Their conversation tells the viewer outright, that not only is that a thing he does regularly, but that it can be planned out and planned for: as they make a point of stating that it's only this time, the Odinsleep was unprepared for.. and, they have seen it enough for Loki's first words to be stating the fact he 'never gets used to seeing him like this' .. meaning? He has seen it enough times that he thinks he probably should be: but also that it's upsetting enough an experience to him, that he isn't.

You'll note that they also briefly discuss the fact that Odin had been putting the Odinsleep off. It was coming anyway and regardless .. and should have happened far sooner.

While it's not technically counted as canon on screen, there's a little more information given directly about Odinsleep in the parts cut out too, if you choose to observe and use them: as well as a more direct showing of what we already know even without that scene of how Frigga chooses to pass the throne to the only heir not currently being guilty of and banished for several counts of treason including restarting the war and disobeying the king in that bed, with Thor's invasion of Jotunheim landing him firmly on Earth with the very obviously earned traitor title.

I'll leave it up to you if you want to watch and or use any of that, and you definitely could; since it's -again- just dialogue telling the viewer what's already known simply by watching the other scenes around it in the canon cut, including and especially the throne room scene where Sif & the Warriors Three request Thor's return, regardless of not only knowing he was banished for treason.. but also having been the others to try to remind and convince him alongside Loki; to NOT commit that treason, prior to him doing it and dragging them along anyway.

All in all, through those scenes; we are given a very clear set of rules and information about Odinsleep either way. Which includes the fact that it can be a form of coma that probably should not be randomly interrupted or the subject brought out of it, where it's apparently necessary for the individual's overall health: but can also be a state in which they might spend the last of their lives.

In that, this also tells us that; there isn't a whole lot that even Asgard's greater technology, or even magic can or should do, to bring someone out of it at all.

And, from the way they do deal with their King going through it even by surprise: we know that there isn't much they can do at all beyond keeping him comfortable and as healthy as possible until the Odinsleep finishes it's course naturally... whether that results in the subject waking up, or possibly, dying.

There's no mention of anyone else going through Odinsleep.. but there's also no mention of whether or not anyone else HASN'T, either.

Either way, that scene alone does show and tell a lot more about Asgard's medical capabilities and some of their limitations too, even as a society that's been at war since before Moses (lol but true, especially counting Odin's dad before him fought the elves for what Odin himself identified as 'Eternities of bloodshed' that didn't end until almost 5k years prior,) even, when cut down to the re-arranged version put down in the film's final cut.

Ultimately, and that said?

I don't think caring for a person in Odinsleep would be different from what we see on screen.

A whole lot of trying to keep them comfortable, undisturbed, and healthy; while wondering and worrying when and especially -if- they'll even wake up.

--Post Script, and a more direct personal example: Incidentally, and if you're curious: I have written Loki as having gone through his own "Odinsleep" in twenty thirteen, in Book Two (Vestibule 1, Universe 8) of my Lokiverse project: GROUNDED. Yes, that underlined bit is both the title and a link directly to where that long fic is posted on AO3, if you're curious how I handled it there. I suggest reading the chapters leading into that segment to understand how that portion of their multiverse got there, but if you want to skip a bit, the Odinsleep sequence itself starts in Chapter Four and ends in chapter Five, and is ultimately among the last of events before a time skip all the way into Civil War's era. It's not the only time the muses use it, but it is currently the only instance I have published.

#Odin #Odinsleep #Asgardian Lore #technology vs magic #medical #medical limitations #the very odd king-coma #Loki #Frigga #Thor 2011 #GROUNDED #Lokiverse references #Vestibule 1 : Universe 8 #post script fic link #MCU #there is the non-canon confirmed bit where: Odin likely konked out on those steps on purpose to avoid further questioning #while it's not technically canon?#I do definitely think that part is HIGHLY and incredibly likely

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envysparkler · 2 years

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this one’s a Tim & Dami one on being careful what you wish for.

the batsibs are on patrol and Dames rescues an old woman selling ‘magic’ trinkets. she thanks him for saving her and gives him a charm that she promises will grant him whatever he wishes for. Dami rolls his eyes instead of saying something disparaging--Nightwing’s disappointed eyes go a long way in reinforcing lectures on manners--and they resume patrol.

patrol ends, they all head back to the Cave, yadda yadda, Dick and Jason are squabbling over something, Tim and Damian get into an argument, Damian snaps at Tim, “I wish you were dead!”, flings the charm at Tim (who dodges) and stalks away. Tim picks up the broken shards of the charm and throws them away. and then he collapses.

Dick and Jason freak out and try to figure out what’s wrong with Tim. they stay up all night, ruling out all kinds of things. they muse that maybe it’s magic. Damian, alarmed, fishes the broken pieces of the charm back together and tries to take back his wish. doesn’t work.

Tim is comatose a la Sleeping Beauty while his family run like headless chickens to figure out what’s wrong.

Damian doesn’t tell anyone about the charm, but heads out into Gotham alone to track down the old woman. he tries to steal another charm from her but the old woman stops him. she asks him why he needs another one and Damian said he needs to fix a mistake.

“they’re for granting wishes, child, not for fixing mistakes.”

Damian gets on his knees to plead. he wants to take back his wish, he made a mistake, please. the old woman considers him for a long moment, and says that sometimes those who are lost need help finding their way back home.

Dami goes back home. Dick is curled up asleep at the medbay, Jason is still frantically working at the synthesizer. Damian goes to Tim and demands he wake up. he says that Richard and Todd have lost their minds and Tim can’t just ignore all his responsibilities and “this is unbecoming of a Wayne, Drake, get up!”.

finally, voice cracking, Dami whispers that he misses Tim too.

Tim opens his eyes. Damian snarls a long line of curses at him before clutching him to hear his heartbeat. everyone is very confused, including Tim.

“tt. I did not mean it when I wished for your death, Drake.”

“oh--”

“I will deliver your death with my own two hands, not rely on some weak and puerile magic.”

“uh, thanks?”

(“aww they’re getting along, look at them!”

“only you would consider death threats ‘getting along’, dickface.”

“well yeah, it’s how half my siblings show their love.”)

#fic ideas #batfam #tim&dami #magic #coma

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