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whitetrashjj · 3 years

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most people that don’t like kie don’t like her because she

1. gets mad at JJ when he calls her out for being rich

2. prioritizes john b constantly because whatever feelings she has towards him gave her tunnel vision

3. tried to guilt-trip pope into missing his scholarship interview despite the fact that, like he said, she wasn’t there for any of them when big john went missing

4. talks about the gold, pope’s scholarship, and things that happen to the boys because of them living in the cut as if it’s okay to just toss them aside when it’s only okay to do that for her- seeing as she doesn’t need the money, and she doesn’t need a scholarship. the only thing that makes her a pogue is that she decided to hang out with them, which is fine but she can’t act like she goes through what people on the cut do seeing as she doesn’t actually live there or go to their school. these things are only expendable for her.

5. she tried to fight pope on the boat because he rightfully called her out on her “moral high ground bullshit”

6. she gives off performative activist. she’ll talk about saving the turtles but when jj is clearly hysterical or something with his buying a hot tub using his share, she says he could have “literally given it to any charity” as if he isn’t quite literally the charity… even without seeing the bruises it’s clear that jj is in an unstable environment with someone who doesn’t care about him and can’t support him financially.

7.she doesn’t sympathize with jj until after the jj/pope/kie hot tub group hug when she sees his bruises. she just ignores whatever he says when he mentions her financial privilege and insults him in a non-friendly way. (he insults her too obviously, but since the show never goes in depth to discuss kie’s struggles as a biracial girl or pope’s struggles as a black boy, it’s not something that jj can randomly sympathize with, seeing as it’s never brought to light. if it was brought up and jj were to react like she’s being annoying for pointing it out or pointing it out to spite him, i would have major problems with jj because acknowledging whatever privilege you have is important, especially when you’re with people that don’t have that privilege/when you’re someone whose character is supposed to be the activist type. and i’m not equating racial privilege to financial privilege, i’m just mentioning it because classism is pretty much the basis of the entire show and its plot.)

anyway… this is the reason i’ve seen most jjpopes dislike kie. mentioning the “kiara sucks” anon as if that is a blanket statement of all jjpopes is strange. we aren’t some raging misogynists out to get her, but you saying that pope is a very flawed character with no examples to back it up but also getting irritated when someone says kiara sucks with no examples to back it up is ridiculous. these are examples. since this is in response to your response to that ask, i’ll also add that while your experiences as a queer person are valid, they aren’t universal (“Any queer person knows that you can’t be as forthcoming and open about our affections as straight people are.”)

i get where you’re coming from with saying a regular character might not be outward about his feelings, but jj is not a regular character. jj is a nothing-to-lose kind of character, so your reasoning for why those many displays of affection throughout the show weren’t intended to be romantic just doesn’t really add up? of course he values pope’s friendship and wouldn’t want to risk it, but it’s also evident that he’s a very good liar and could easily say he was joking or wasn’t trying to seem like any of his actions were romantic, something you can also probably understand/have experienced as a queer person. your very statement that jj is someone who flirts with anyone is counterproductive to the statement that that means he doesn’t have feelings for pope. he flirts with every girl, but he can only form a lasting bond while also doing things you’d normally do with a crush, with pope. a lot of jjpopes including myself think he’s gay, and comphet/trying to prove to yourself that you’re straight by engaging in meaningless hookups (like jj) is reason for that headcanon. i get what you’re saying for other characters, but there’s no indication of jj not having that same nothing-to-lose attitude when it comes to people he has romantic feelings for, so there would be no reason for the pull-back or hesitation that you mentioned. and since he knows pope and his connection (whether it be platonic or romantic to both of them) is so strong, he probably assumes nothing could break that bond/dynamic either way.

also no one called you anti-black or implied that you were for saying pope is a flawed character, but it would be surprising to see one that isn’t rooted in that because all of them in the past have been- this fandom is wildly colorist and homophobic (another reason representation like jjpope is so important) and it’s extremely hard to find someone that doesn’t like pope without an explanation for their dislike that isn’t rooted in racism. that’s just common sense, though.

You know, I've been looking at this ask for a long time just wondering if it's worth my time to address all of this - like I didn't realise one could send asks this big. But I'm bored and got a beer in me so fuck it let's go.

So first let's talk about the reasons you hate Kie. I'm gonna admit that I to think she is flawed, like every other obx character, she is also a victim to bad writing and under developed. But also I just do not understand how people can hate her or insists that she is a bad person, don't get me wrong sometimes you just don't vibe with a character and there is nothing wrong with that but hating them and tearing them down is a very different thing.

Now I've said this before but let me reiterate. Not liking a character or ship or preferring one over the other does not automatically make you racist, misogynistic or homophobic. But I do think it is important to take a step back and assess our motivation and perhaps internalised biases. Sometimes you will find that you reasoning is without much substance and realise that you have some things to work on, sometimes even though mentally you don't have the conscious block there is something internalised about that - I know I have been subject to that. This doesn't make you a bad person, and you don't have to force yourself to like it or anything, but just be aware and sometimes it's okay to just remove yourself for the conversation because the people who do like it aren't supporting something that is morally corrupt and it doesn't have to be the subject of discourse. People can like different stuff.

So:

1. Did you mean pulls faces when JJ calls her rich? Cause that's what she does, gets a little annoyed, pulls a face but doesn't say anything because she know he's got a point. I'm very confused about you definition of angry and perhaps be careful about perpetuating the 'angry black woman' stereotype.

Also, I think it's important to note that clearly the kooks vs pogues divide has pretty much abolished the middle class, and you are either lower class or 'rich'. The Carrera's very clearly still struggle with money and are not on the same level of kooks as the Cameron's. So yeah, I think she's justified to roll her eyes at JJ saying she's rich as fuck and doesn't need money.

2. Prioritizes John B because his dad's gone missing, he's been abandoned by his guardian, is being threatened with being taken away from his home and everything he knows and is in general spiralling? Yeah. What a fucking monster. Also, I find it hard to find a justification for Kie having canon romantic feelings from John B that isn't just born from heteronormativity - her caring about him and then getting kissed by him does not equal a love match.

3. It wasn't about missing the interview - which wasn't until the next fucking day - it was about not giving up looking for their friend who was in a really bad way. Like - you cannot say that getting a scholarship when you are 16 is more important that John B's actual life being at stake ?

The fact that she wasn't there when John B went missing wasn't relevant? Like I've talked about why I hate Pope in this scene. But like, Pope is saying 'um you can't call me out on being a bad friend now cause you were a bad friend then'. That's the point, Kie caring so much about John B is rooted in guilt cause she wasn't there, and now she's trying to be there and support him, to prove that she's a better friend now. That's she's different, because she is.

4. I would love some specific examples of her brushing this stuff off like it means nothing. Other than the boat scene which once again, justified. And once again, Kie isn't destitute at all and no she doesn't fully understand the struggles of the boys or the cut but her family is not rolling in it and spending weekends on Yachts. Like this point is such a bloody reach.

5. I don't love that she got physical with him either. But she didn't do that because she got called out. She got upset because Pope was the one person she confided in about that happened during her kook year, about how bad it was, about the fact that she was suicidal and Sarah saved her and that's why she was so drawn to that, not because she wanted to be a kook, and Pope just throws that back in her face because he's jealous that Kie cares more about John B's problems than his.

6. Well this is just a misrepresentation of what happened. She said give it to any charity because in that moment it seemed like without a reason JJ just blew that money on stupid shit. Pope thought the same thing that's why he yells at him for not using it for restitution. In that moment he just seems like he is being drunk and irresponsible, because they didn't think he would go back to Luke, Pope literally says that he wouldn't. And then note how when they see the bruises they know what happened and the tone instantly changes cause they realise what happened. And that he did try to do the right thing and got flogged because of it. And she is right in there to comfort him and reassure him. So like... yeah.

7. Please give me example for this. I don't see Kie insulting him that isn't a justified call out or playful banter that is returned and part of their push and shove dynamic. You know... just being friends.

The only times we see Kie react to JJ's home life she is concerned and sympathetic. She's the only one who's worried about JJ going home when he storms off and is instantly there to comfort him when she knows he's had interaction with Luke. I really don't know where you are getting this from.

I don't use it as a blanket statement, I know not to group shippers in as one, I know there are jiara shippers that I do not see eye to eye with for a second. The reason I bring up the 'kiara sucks' thing is because of the context it was used. We weren't talking about Kie, it wasn't relevant, it had no reason to be there or anything to back it up. It was random bitching and as you say fandom is a very racist place so yeah, it seemed like racism to me. Like you realise you are calling me ridiculous for being annoyed that someone just came to me and said Kie sucks without reason, and then this ask goes onto be annoyed that I have some issues with Pope and that more than likely racist for thinking it because you've elected to ignore my massive post outlining my stance on this.

My experiences as a queer person are not universal, no. But I do know they are very common. I'm so thankful that there are people out there who don't experience this and I hope that in the future it will be the norm. But realistically, with what we know about JJ, I think it is more than likely that would be his experience.

Look if you headcanon him as gay say the things with girls is comphet, then that's your view and I won't fight you on it. But remember that that is a headcanon. And what I have been talking about is were they intentionally setting up jjpope and are those actions indicative of romantic attraction, which if they we're they would have made a point to frame it as comp het, which they didn't, they might in the future but for now - they aren't. In terms of being a good liar, I just- like gay panic is a very strong thing. There young girls who tell everyone they don't like hugs because they actually really liked the hugs and feel like people will know that they are gay if they hug their friend, a hug. I can't see 'I'm a good liar' being enough to overcome those sorts of feelings.

The thing is while JJ has a nothing to lose attitude when it comes to his life and future the same doesn't apply to his relationships, because the Pogues are his thing to lose, his only family, the one good thing. I can't see him just saying fuck it I could risk losing Pope. So I can't agree with you there.

First of all, I was called anti-black for not liking Pope, despite the fact that I don't hate him, and just had valid reasons for thinking he is flawed, not the devil incarnate. Two, I am well aware that this fandom is racist, like all fucking fandoms, and have talked about it. And I think that fact that I don't hate Pope and laid out very clearly the reasons I don't think he's some perfect angel that does no wrong kinda shows that I'm not just random bitching because he's black. Also - I'm a fucking Kie stan. I have to deal with people hating on Kie for the same reasons they love Sarah - it's very obvious to see people motivations there.

And you are right. An interracial mlm ship would be great representation. So would an interracial ship between the hot guy that everyone loves with the black girl - because doesn't he always end up with the white self insert? But reminder that ships don't automatically have superiority because they have 'better' representation and certainly does not represent a shipper 'wokeness'. Personally I think a platonic relationship between two men that are as close and physically affectionate as JJ and Pope - especially when one is so traditionally masculine as JJ, especially if one or both of them could be queer - would be great representation for young boys struggling with toxic masculinity.

So yeah, I think your reasons for hating Kie don't have much basis in canon. I do not give if you like her or not but.. hating her and trying to prove that people shouldn't like her, that she's not good enough for JJ and coming into my ask and putting her down for no reason, still does not sit right with me.

#obx #obx bs #kiara carrera #JJ and pope #lara answers

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tomonari-nue · 3 years

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using the block button liberally and for even the most pettiest shit has really improved my overall experience with fandom but it’s also lowkey hilarious bc i miss even the mildest of discourse so i feel like im just sitting in a lawn-chair, lifting my sunglasses slightly while sipping a can of root beer like “what?”

#blue's chit chat #so here's the best tip: block anything that even mildly annoys you #you'll clean up your dash like that #just hit that block button. you dont owe ppl shit

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youneedasoultraveller · 3 years

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Is Nicky the only one headcanoned by people as bad with languages or are Nile and Booker seen the same way too (Andy is of course excluded from that due to her age and Joe is universally depicted as skilled with languages) ? I would expect Nile to be seen as bad with languages due to the American education system but it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hello! Post-response me would like to apologise once again for the length of this post :(

I have personally not found a single fic where either Booker or Nile were depicted bad with languages; at most I found fics where Nile cannot speak languages other than English yet and you have the rest of the Guard routinely teaching her this and that idiom.

So, no, in my experience the only one that I saw people actively headcanon as bad at languages is Nicolò. Even though exactly as you point our if we want to go by stereotypes the one that should have been hc’d as such should have been Nile precisely because the large majority of Anglos are monolingual and the way languages are taught in their educational systems is horrendous to say the least (I will never forget my experiences studying Arabic in a Canadian university).

As it stands, Nile is shown using a couple of words of Pashtu, and if I remember correctly it is mentioned that she speaks Spanish in her presentation card, but if it’s the average American knowledge of Spanish “mi casa es su casa” then I would not call that speaking it. But these are just suppositions :)

So canon doesn’t give us much, that we know. And this is where headcanons come in. Like I was saying, usually people would not write Nile as multilingual but as someone who is in the process of learning several languages.

No one is indicated that she is bad at it, although if you ask pratically anyone in the world they will tell you that Americans and Brits are the worst at both learning and speaking other languages, because in those cultures there is a deep imperialist bias engrained – whether they are aware or not – that everyone in the world speaks English, so they can spare the effort to try to pronounce properly another language, or, God forbid, learn it at all. Nothing indicates us that Nile butchers or not other languages, and no one ever takes it into account.

As for Booker, he is French so normally Anglos would have also made fun of his way of talking if it had not been for Matthias.

And now I reach my point. The main reason why Nicolò is consistently depicted as terrible at languages is because of Luca’s Italian accent, and the fact that you can see he is not as fluent in English as Marwan and Matthias are, who are like him not native speakers. This even though the man speaks five languages.

I am not going into the whole mess with interviews with native English speakers who treated him as if he were dumb just because he could not really understand their accent (I myself often have to slow down and ask for a repeat, because some accents are just not as immediately intelligible as Anglos think), given that it has been discussed at length.

The only thing I want to stress is how this headcanon is extremely imperialistic, condescending and plays once again into the harmful stereotype of the dumb, illiterate Southerner.

Linguistic discrimination is a thing, and it’s a thing everywhere. By linguistic discrimination I don’t just mean that against people who cannot speak a major language (or the “official” language of the country they are in), but it also affects accents.Accents have everything to do with geography and class: it is a marker of where you are from, and plays into prejudices linked to the social standing and the class usually associated to that accent. Now, languages are a natural process, in continuous evolution and adaptation, whereas standardised languages (including a standardised pronunciation) are artificial choices. Just think of British vs American English: they are both theoretically the same language, but they diverge in several instances in terms of both vocabulary and pronunciation.Whip this up to the max when it comes to speaking a language that is not your own. The sounds and grammar structures of your mother tongue have an impact on the way you process a different language. That’s why it’s difficult for Spanish-speakers to pronounce S + consonant at the beginning of a word, or why Slavic languages have a harder H sound (again at the beginning of a word). Even when you have the grammar and pronunciation down to a T and are virtually indistinguishable from a native speaker, it does not mean that people who lose their accents and speak like a BBC tv host are any better at languages than people whose accent is still noticeable, or whose speech flow may be slower.

Having an accent does not qualify the level of fluency in a set language. Not speaking like a dictionary does not qualify the level of your intelligence (and I cannot believe I have to even say that).

And yet having an accent is politicised for classist and racist purposes. If someone does not blend in 100% with the majority, it means that something is lacking in them: usually it means they do not have the same level of education, which means they probably come from a lower class, or that they also are foreigners. So they are less than, just because their speech is deemed as not up to par with that of the majority.

@lucyclairedelune meant this when she brought up the example of Gloria from Modern Family, saying “you don’t know how intelligent I am in Spanish”. I want to make an example that is closer to my heart. Elena Ferrante in her wondrous Neapolitan Quartet described the life of a girl who was trying to escape from the material and psychological misery of the slums of Naples in the 60s. To do so she migrates North to study at one of Italy’s most prestigious university: here, however, she is bullied for her accent that clearly marks her origins and (prejudicially, since people of the South were in general poorer) status, class, and, finally, categorises her as less intelligent. Just because of her accent when speaking standard Italian. As a Southern Italian woman, I have often felt like I had to mask my own accent, both in Italy and abroad, to be taken seriously. This regardless of my academic qualifications or how many languages I speak.

When people describe Nicolò as bad at languages simply because Luca has an accent and speaks English slower and less fluently than his co-stars, this is the context that this treatment plays in. Subconsciously (or consciously) it adds to the image that a big chunk of the fandom is painting of him as dumb and ignorant. No one else. And the fact that (luckily) no one ever uses Nile’s monolingualism as a marker for being less intelligent is also because being American is still taken as the standard, as well as the fact that unfortunately Nile (like Yusuf) is going through positive discrimination by which she cannot have any complexity or flaws (starting from hardly ever acknowledging the fact that she herself was part of an invader/occupying foreign force which has bombed and killed civilians in Afghanistan, and was in the midst of a military operation exactly in this sense).

According to that specific discourse, Nicolò is being given every single possible flaw, in order to be opposite to Yusuf. Again, because this fandom, with its Anglocentrism and Puritan incapacity of overcoming black-and-white oppositions, cannot seem to accept that we have a beautiful interracial, interreligious same-sex couple of complex individuals, who can both be smart at the same time. I myself think that Yusuf historically is better at languages than Nicolò, as he was a merchant (and an artist), and I love this difference about them, but conflating intelligence with proficiency in one single language (because it’s only proficiency English that we have been discussing, let’s be honest, if the show had been shot in German we would not be talking about Luca’s issues with the language probably) is an utterly imperialistic, condescending and ridiculous thing to do.

I probably lost the train of my thought (and I had two beers in the meantime, so I am too tired to reread), but what I mainly wanted to highlight is that this mocking attitude towards Nicolò is rooted in both a wider downgrading trend of his character, and on a general approach towards non-English speakers that Anglos have virtually everywhere.

#nicolo di genova #the old guard #the old guard meta #the old guard discorse

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onlydreamofmysoul · 3 years

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To add to the root beer discourse!

I’ve always loved it (I’m Canadian), but recently a friend of mine from Ukraine told me it’s weird because it tastes like toothpaste. And now every time I drink it I can taste the minty-ness he was referring too.

Also, your comment about ginger beer was funny, because ginger ale is also really popular here, and another friend (weirdly also Ukrainian) recently brought up the point that ginger is a root, and ale is a type of beer... so isn’t ginger ale just root beer?

I didn’t talk to him for an hour.

For years I genuinely thought it was the same thing just a different name! I was like why do they not just call it ginger beer? Wtf?

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artificialqueens · 4 years

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Wasting the Time We've Got (Methydoll) - Thorpe

A/N: Two fics in the span of one week? Who even am I anymore? Last time I gave you a vague angst. Now, this is an Angst with a capital A. I love Nicky and I love Crystal, so I made them suffer. I have no excuse for myself. Thank you to Mac and Freyja for being wonderful and amazing and agreeing to beta this story. I’m also sorry to everyone affected by the tea discourse. I’d love to find out what you’re thinking on @freykitten. Enjoy! xx

…

One Euro is 1.12 of an American Dollar, so Nicky greets the airport with a flair of superiority in her step, and people do fawn over her accent, but no one really cares. The States aren’t as great as television made it seem, but they are something new and entirely different, and it’s just two semesters abroad, so she lets herself be lured in. Gets excited.

She’s imagined she’d be partying in sororities, drinking from red plastic cups and playing beer pong, or spending 12 hours in a car on a cross-country road trip to see the biggest rocking chair in the world.

She isn’t.

Her whole life consists of choosing literature classes and trying to figure out the difference between a freshman and a junior. And there’s also her roommate.

Crystal is sweet in a way that tells Nicky her parents are good people above anything else, and she seems to have a bigger problem wording her thoughts in English than Nicky has. She leaves long pauses and communicates in high pitched noises, and Nicky adores her for that. For that and many other things. There are so many reasons to adore Crystal that sometimes it feels like a default setting.

It’s month two and they’re sitting on Crystal’s bed on a Thursday evening. They have fairy lights on (Crystal’s doing) and a couple of candles lit (courtesy of Nicky), and it’s pouring rain on the outside (aided by no one in particular, as far as they know, but they make use of it by having a cozy night in).

Nicky doesn’t catch the name. She’s pretty sure it’s because Crystal never said it, but, to be fair, she doesn’t catch many things. It’s hard to focus on what Crystal is saying when she can look at her instead. She’ll write it off as a language barrier later, but it’s not. It's… keen interest. That’s what it is. And Nicky totally isn’t thinking that it also could be translated as an infatuation, especially not when Crystal is telling her about the girl she likes.

She’s asking for advice on flirting with someone else, so Nicky’s luck really isn’t the best. The subject annoys her and she offers the simplest, most cliché things she knows from movies in hopes of ending the conversation. It doesn’t work. So she tells Crystal she’s not an expert, that she doesn’t know a thing about “American dating”. And that, it doesn’t make it better. It makes it worse. Because Crystal starts giggling and decides they have to catch up on everything. She takes her to the movies, she takes her bowling, she fails to teach Nicky to rollerskate, and later they share a strawberry shake in a diner. It’s too pink and doesn’t taste of strawberries, but Crystal’s eyes are sparkling and she blushes when she asks if Nicky is having fun. It’s nice. She is having fun. Too much fun. Too much fun to be having with a girl whose eyes reflect a whole galaxy of stars when Nicky asks her about the progress with her crush. She never tells her anything concrete, and Nicky is thankful for that, but Crystal looks down and plays with her fingers in a way that tells Nicky everything. It’s going well.

Then, it gets even worse. Crystal comes to her for another piece of advice. She’s so genuinely concerned, that Nicky forces down her jealousy and smiles. “Why don’t you do something she likes?”

It gets worse, because Crystal is so sweet and she’s so interested in Nicky’s life. Asks about her hobbies and life in Marseille, goes to jazz concerts with her, memorises the names of her friends and her favourite Dunkin’ Donut. She starts learning French from an app. Nicky jokes that when she comes to visit her in France, she won’t let her go. Will keep her there forever. It’s a joke, and Nicky is the only one who has any business knowing it’s not a joke at all. Crystal gets excited, too excited to speak, so she keeps nodding her head, making her curls and plastic beads on her necklace bounce. And Nicky knows Crystal is in on the joke, that she wouldn’t want to actually fly to another continent and stay with her forever, but she blushes like she would, and it hurts.

She’s been there for a whole semester already. Someone brings it up when they’re out with their friends and none of them can believe it. Crystal throws herself over Nicky, wrapping her arms around her, and asks Nicky not to ever leave in a shy whisper. Nicky just holds her tighter. If only Crystal knew. But she doesn’t and she can’t and she won’t. Nicky plays it off as a joke, like it wasn’t twisting the knife already stuck in her heart, but lets herself tangle her fingers in Crystal’s hair and stroke the back of her head. It could be enough, she tells herself.

Later, when they’re walking to their dorm, they’re holding hands, laughing. They’ve had a bit too much to drink, just enough not to care about zipping their jackets and to swear they can see twice as many stars as there actually are. They stop for a moment to count them, but they’re suddenly spinning, so Nicky holds Crystal and spins her too. They’re slowly swaying to the sound of the wind rustling the leaves. And then Nicky turns away from a would-be kiss. She shakes her head, puts a lot of effort into not crying. It’s not her. There’s someone else, who is not her, and Crystal would regret it when the alcohol wears off and the probability of Nicky’s chances significantly drops in percentage points. They keep dancing in silence and Nicky manages to make Crystal laugh again. Before they carry on walking, she presses a light kiss to Crystal’s temple. It’s not enough, and she doesn’t have it in her to lie to herself anymore.

“I think you need to get your shit together.”

Crystal’s been dancing around her crush for almost a whole year now, gushing about her, but not making any definite moves. Nicky probably wouldn’t survive seeing her with someone else, but she cares for Crystal’s happiness far more than for her own comfort, so she pushes her.

“Was it out of line?” Nicky soothes, making up for her harsh words by putting two glasses of iced tea on the table in front of them. It’s a calculated move. Crystal’s been the one to introduce Nicky to the atrocity that instant tea is, and it always makes her happy when Nicky likes the things she shows her.

“No, but it doesn’t mean I wanted to hear it.” Nicky chuckles at that. Crystal doesn’t join her, but it doesn’t make her worry.

“Are you angry?” She still asks. Crystal doesn’t respond, just worries her lip between her teeth and does this thing with her fingers she always does when she’s nervous. Nicky scoots closer. “You can’t.”

“I can’t be angry?” Crystal finally looks at her and she doesn’t seem mad - Nicky isn’t sure she’d be capable of that, in all honesty.

“No. Not with me,” she simply says and rests her chin on Crystal’s shoulder. “It would kill me.” Crystal lets out a frustrated huff, and Nicky smirks. She knows it’s not fair, using that on sweet, kind Crystal, but she’s never had one bad intention towards the other girl, so she feels pardoned. And who knows? Maybe it’s the truth. Maybe it would kill her. “I’m sorry, my love.”

“No, you’re right. I’m going to talk to her.” Crystal turns to look at her and her eyes are clear like the sky, but stern. She says it like she’s promising something to Nicky, and her heart drops at that.

So, it’s happening.

She’s here. They’re at a party and the girl Crystal might be in love with is here. Nicky chose her best dress, spent an hour and a half on her makeup, and teased and coiffed her hair until her blonde curls were like white gold and looked purposefully, adorably disheveled, which usually made people beg to take her home with them. Crystal can’t stop looking at her and she lets herself hope that maybe it’s working, that maybe Crystal will choose her over this strange girl that could never love Crystal as much as Nicky does.

But then they get surrounded by a crowd of people and Nicky can’t stop herself from scanning every girl talking to Crystal, wondering if it’s her. She looks at Crystal, searching for an exceptionally wide smile or a blush or a spark in her eyes. Crystal is covered in glitter, and Nicky swapped her highlighter for gunpowder, ashy and ready to go off. She winces when Crystal briefly lets go of her hand to hug a friend, and she feels her heart speed up at the thought that as soon as they run into her, Crystal will let go for good. She can’t be there, she can’t risk seeing it. So she lets go first and heads to the bar.

She doesn’t see Crystal for the rest of the night. It comes with an effort, because Nicky is always looking at Crystal, naturally gravitating to her. But she’s scared of what she’d see if she turned around, so she stays rooted to her place on a barstool, looking for a distraction. When she finally gets up, she finds Crystal alone in a booth and presses a fleeting kiss to her cheek. It tastes sickeningly sweet from grenadine in the drink the woman standing behind her bought her - or maybe just from the idea of leaving with someone else. But she can’t be here. So she places a kiss on Crystal’s cheek and wishes her luck, before walking out with her date and not looking back.

The next day she doesn’t need to ask how it went. Her heart breaks at how crushed Crystal looks when she comes back in the morning. Nicky curses herself for leaving her alone.

“Yeah,” Crystal chokes on a sob, “why couldn’t you just stay?”

She wants to burrow Crystal in her arms, hold her until the pain transfers onto her and Crystal smiles again, but she seems to reject all forms of comfort. She avoids hugs. She shuts off Nicky’s soothing. She shuts her off completely. And it hurts. Nicky’s aching to hold her and stroke her hair and tell her it’ll be better - she needs that for herself too. But since Crystal needs something else, she forces herself to go back to normal. To regular conversations and casual jokes. Pretends nothing’s happened and that Crystal didn’t get her heart broken, breaking Nicky’s in the process. They don’t mention it again.

They don’t mention a lot of things. They get distant, and Nicky swallows the lump in her throat. Crystal asks for space and there’s nothing more important to her than Crystal, so she gives her space and time and silence. The first time it feels like the old times again is the night before Nicky’s flight home. Crystal climbs into Nicky’s bed and clings to her and they cry as the sky goes from navy blue to indigo to lavender.

She texts Crystal when she lands and then calls her when she gets home.

“It was you, you know? That whole time. It was you.”

“Crystal, I-”

“Yeah.”

“It was you, too.”

“Oh.”

For a while, neither of them says anything, and Nicky’s whole world falls apart with a single “oh”. She feels desperation claw at her throat because she’s 4,899 kilometres away and this is not happening. Except it is, because they’re 4,899 kilometres and 3,043 miles away from each other, and there’s nothing they can do about it now. She swallows once. Twice. Nothing changes. It’s still too late.

“Goodbye, Nicky.” Crystal ends the call, and Nicky stands there long after, her phone pressed to her ear, hoping to hear something else, to hear something that would make it all alright, because it can’t end like this, they can’t end like this, they-

The phone stays silent.

#rpdr fanfiction #nicky doll #crystal methyd #crystal x nicky #angst #a lot of pining and no happy ending #thorpe #concrit welcome #submission #s12 #lesbian au

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theangriestpea · 4 years

Text

The Killing Type | Three

Summary: Just when Lavender thought things were going great with Sweet Pea, a new girl comes back to turn to turn their entire relationship upside down. Now they have to navigate a world of drug dealers, rival gangs, and co-parenting. Sequel to Mercy Killing. <ao3> <masterlist>

Rating: Mature // Explicit

Pairings: Sweet Pea x OC // eventual Jughead Jones x OC

Warnings: Underage Drinking

Word Count: 4.9k+

A/N: This chapter went to a weird place??? Oh well. I half planned on there to be more smut but it just didn't happen lol. That's probably for the best, I've been off my game lately.

Chapter Three : The L Word

When Sweet Pea finally joined Lavender at the cake, everyone began to sing Happy Birthday while she lit the candles surrounding the double-headed snake. He watched numbly, not even hearing the song end or the cheers that came after. She had to nudge him to get him to snap back to reality and blow out of the candles after making a quick wish (even though he thought wishing on birthday candles was utterly stupid, he still had some modicum of hope).

Cheryl cut the cake, divvying out a good sized piece to everyone. Sweet Pea got the first cut and the biggest slice, though he didn’t feel much in the mood for cake. He forced himself to take a bite, watching the way his ex’s eyes lit up with anticipation. She couldn’t wait to see what he thought.

Sweet Pea forced a small smile, “this is the best cake I’ve ever had.” He said honestly, it was very good. It just felt so...wrong. And he couldn’t place why. As if he shouldn’t be eating this because she got it for him. That by consuming it he was somehow trapped in this non-relationship. Maybe he was looking too far into it.

After grabbing a cold beer, Lav sat down at an empty table with her piece of cake. She watched as various serpents danced and talked, some were playing pool while others were chowing down on cake and other snacks that had been provided. She felt an incredible amount of pride for being able to put this all together for him, the afterglow of sex leaving a kind of invincible aura around her. A protective bubble if you will.

Someone sat down across the table from her and she gave a sideways glance to see that it was Lily. Lavender sipped her beer, pretending to not feel any sort of intimidation. Lily watched her eat silently for a few tense minutes.

“You don’t see what you’re doing, do you?” She finally asked, wondering how Lavender could supposedly know Sweet Pea so well, but not know that she was hurting him. It was extremely obvious to Lily who had grown up with him. Spending nearly every day with him for over a decade made it so she knew his every tell. Sweet Pea couldn’t hide shit from her and vise versa.

Lavender sighed, annoyed with this discourse already. “What are you talking about?”

Lily straightened up in her chair, “you’re hurting him but you don’t even realize it. I don’t think you can read him as well as you think you can.”

“I know he’s upset about the breakup but we talked about it. We’ll get back together when the time is right.” Lav replied, her voice growing cold. “I don’t see why it’s any of your business. You’re the reason we broke up in the first place.”

“I understand why you did it. Because you wanted us to have a chance, but I told you I don’t want his cheating ass back. It’s my business because he’s my best friend and you’re putting him through unnecessary heartbreak because of something stupid that I said, which he gladly chewed me out for later.” Lily said, trying to get through to her. “Toni and Jug said something to me too and I apologize for what I said. Maybe you’re not using him to get better. I just jumped to conclusions because I was hurt….”

Lavender waited patiently for her to continue. However, the conversation seemed to die off there. Lav had no idea what she wanted to do now. Did she take him back now that Lily had admitted to being wrong? This somehow felt like a trap. “I want him to focus on being a father.” Lav said. “I loved mine very much and I think it’s important for little girls to have a good dad in their life...and he missed out on so much already. I don’t want to take time away from her.”

Lily couldn’t help but feel a new appreciation for the girl she had deemed “the other woman”. Here she was just trying to help them keep their family together...and all Lily had done was attack her. She let out a soft sigh, regretting how unnecessarily harsh she had been.

An uncomfortable silence fell on them as Lav watched her nemesis, Kitty Rollins, approach Sweet Pea. Her grip on her beer bottle tightened as Lily watched the scene unfold. They were standing extremely close to one another, Sweet Pea was smiling and even laughed . Lavender felt anger and heartbreak all at once. They weren’t together, she told him he could see other people, but him actually doing it….that was not something she had been prepared for.

Lily watched both Lavender and Sweet Pea, instantly figuring out what her baby daddy was doing. He wasn’t actually interested in Kitty, that was evident, but he was putting on a show as if he were. It was all to goad Lavender into some kind of reaction. He naively thought that maybe if he showed her how much she still wanted him, that she’d come back. Maybe they could stop being platonic and go back to what they had.

Kitty grabbed a hold of Sweet Pea’s jacket, and Lavender nearly saw red. She had to chug down her beer to keep from losing it. “Lav, listen.” Lily said, reaching out to put a hand on top of the other girl’s. It was a very...strange gesture to Lavender. “He’s not into her, I promise. He only has eyes for you right now. He’s trying to rile you up.”

Lavender’s eyes softened as she looked back at Sweet Pea, who had chanced a glance at her before leaning in to whisper something to Kitty. The jealousy and rage returned in an instant. Even if Lily was telling the truth, it was working . “He’ll still have sex with her.” Lav said, “He had sex with me and he didn’t even know me.”

Lily pulled her hand away. “He will pretend to, sure. But he won’t actually do it. He’s too chicken shit. I promise, if they leave he’ll just drop her off at her trailer and leave her there. Trust me, he did the same thing to girls when we were taking a break just to annoy me. He doesn’t have side chicks when he’s actively in love with someone. I think...I think we had fallen apart before July even started.” She swallowed down the lump of pain in her throat. Even though she had moved on, it still hurt quite a bit when she thought about it.

Lav was staring at Lily now, eyes as wide as saucers. Her and Sweet Pea had never used the L word with one another. They weren’t ready. It was too big of a step. And while Lav had deep rooted suspicions that she did love Sweet Pea, she was almost sure that he didn’t love her back... at least, not romantically.

“He...loves me?” She asked, still not believing what Lily had just said. The brunette was unperturbed. Sweet Pea was terrible at saying those three words so it wasn’t surprising that he hadn’t told her how he felt. She also wondered if Lavender also had similar issues admitting to her feelings.

“Shanna,” Lav flinched at the use of her real name. “Trust me. No one knows Nathaniel better than I do. If he didn’t love you, then he would have gone out and banged the first chick he came across the night you broke up with him.”

Lav bit her lip, nearly giggling at finally knowing Sweet Pea’s real name. He would never tell her it, even after many nights of begging and trying to seduce it out of him. “Do you think...he could be a dad to her and a boyfriend to me?” She asked, her voice obviously unsure.

Lily smiled softly, “you’ll never know until you let him try.”

The purple haired girl stood, leaving her trash at the table for the time being as she sauntered over to Sweet Pea. He was giving her a curious look as he allowed Kitty to press her body against him. “ Nathaniel ,” Lav said sweetly. Kitty’s head snapped to look at the shorter girl, eyes narrowing into a glare. Her nose was now permanently crooked thanks to Lav’s little stunt when she first became a Serpent.

Sweet Pea grit his teeth, anger flaring at the sound of his name. Lily, he thought icily, looking to his ex as she waved with a huge smile on her face. His eyes shifted back to Lav who was completely ignoring Kitty. “Can I talk to you for a moment?”

“You’re not together anymore, Northside slut, back off.” Kitty hissed. Sweet Pea’s gaze hardened as he pushed her away from him. He knew how the Northsiders at Riverdale constantly called Lav demeaning names such as slut or whore after her attack. They didn’t know what really happened, and the rumors made it seem like she was gang-banged consensually by a bunch of Ghoulies.

He never stood for anyone calling her either word, because he knew how much it had destroyed her esteem. “Back off, Rollins.” He hissed at her, no longer wanting anything to do with the black haired girl. He put an arm around Lav, his large hand finding the small of her back so he could lead her away.

Though Lav was stricken by the insult, she pretended to brush it off as if it were nothing. She understood why Sweet Pea took the defensive stance and appreciated it greatly. He had even forgotten that she had called him by his real name. “What do you want to talk about?”

“I’ve been an idiot about this whole thing.” Lavender said admittedly, her cheeks dusting with a shade of pink. “Lily...Lily talked to me and she’s right. I shouldn’t be hurting you like this.” He made a face, not liking that she had called him out on his feelings. “I was just worried that I’d take you away from Daisy, but I should have at least let you try to figure out how to balance us.”

He let out a pent up breath, nodding his head slowly. “So what does this mean? You want to get back together?” His heart seemed to be thudding painfully in his chest, as if it were burst free at any moment.

She turned to face him, looking up with those big hazel eyes that drew him in every time. “I know this has been really weird for both of us, Lily and Daisy coming back into your life. But I think...I really think we can work through it. So, if you want me to be your girlfriend again then I would lo-” She cut herself off, “then I would be extremely happy.”

Sweet Pea stared at her, his feelings all jumbled together like a poorly wrapped skein of yarn. “So we’re dating again?” He asked, a bit confused by her rambling.

Lav let out a frustrated groan, “yes! We’re dating again!”

He couldn’t stop the grin from spreading across his face, his heart pumping full of joy as he leaned down to kiss her with her small face in his hands. She sighed into the kiss, moving her lips against his until Fangs came up and slapped Sweet Pea on the ass.

“Dude!” Sweet Pea snapped at him, not liking the interruption.

“Are you two fucking again or what?” Fangs asked, a stupid smile on his lips. “Because I’m kinda over this whole broken up thing. Not that I don’t love sleeping with you in my arms, Lavie.”

Sweet Pea made a face at him and Fangs quickly changed his tune, “platonically, Sweets. It was a joke.” Sweet Pea rolled his eyes and pulled Lav close to him in a possessive way.

“Anyway,” Fangs said after rolling his eyes. “Let’s celebrate! Drinks on me everybody!” He yelled out, making the crowd cheer.

“Fogarty, I pre-bought all the alcohol you idiot.” Lavender said, a cute pout on her face. “Stop taking credit for my generosity!”

Fangs smirked before walking off, waving his hand at him in a goofy goodbye. “Jerk.” Lav muttered playfully before looking back up at Sweet Pea who had been staring down at her.

“This is the best birthday I’ve ever had.” He mumbled at her, a blush creeping up his neck. “Thanks Rhodes.”

“You’re welcome, Pea.”

The party went on fairly late into the night. As things were starting to wrap up, Lavender noticed that Lily had disappeared even though the rest of their core group was there helping to clean up. “Where’s Lily?” Lav asked Sweet Pea who just sighed.

He ran a hand through his hair, “she keeps disappearing at weird hours. She left about forty-five minutes ago, told me to pick up Daisy and apologized for making me watch her on my birthday. She said she had something to do. Who has something that important to do at two in the morning?”

Lav frowned, seeing a foreign look on his face. If she didn’t know any better, then she would have thought that it was distraught strewn across his features. “You don’t know where she goes?”

“No.” He replied, his tone erring on the side of anger. “She just tells me to watch Daisy and leaves. Sometimes she’s gone for hours.”

Lav threw the trash she had in her hands away, “maybe we should follow her one day.” She looked up to see his thoughtful expression.

“You’re right, Shanna.” She grimaced at her name, “next time we’ll follow her and see where she goes.”

She pulled him down for a quick kiss. “Can I spend the night with you? I don’t want you to be by yourself on your birthday.”

He smirked at her, “technically my birthday ended at midnight. But if you think you can handle a crying baby waking you up in the night, then sure.”

Lav couldn’t help but roll her eyes, “I should have known you’d adjust to that quickly seeing as I used to be that crying baby waking you up all the time.”

Sweet Pea’s gentle smile turned into a disapproving look. “Don’t talk about yourself like that.” He said, not liking her speaking negatively about the aftereffects of her trauma. “You’re not a baby.”

She looked up at him through her thick eyelashes. “I’m your baby.” She said cutely, trying to lighten the mood.

He rolled his eyes at her before letting out a sigh of defeat, “yeah, yeah. I guess you are. Hurry up, Princess, so we can go home.”

With the help of the others, they finished cleaning up the Wyrm and packing up the leftover food. Lavender told Sweet Pea she’d meet him at his trailer since they drove separately and she still had his key. Luckily she knew she still had some clothes stashed over there from when they were dating previously. It just seemed stupid to take it all home when they’d get back together eventually.

When she arrived, she put the food away before retreating to his bedroom, ignoring all of the baby toys strewn across the living room and hallway. She changed into one of his t-shirts and stretched out on his bed as she waited for him to join her.

About ten minutes later, Sweet Pea arrived with a sleeping Daisy. Since it was so late, she was in too deep of a sleep to wake up when he picked her up and brought her home. He put her in her crib and turned on a night light before going into his room.

He couldn’t help but grin at the familiar sight of Lavender on his bed wearing his clothes. The shirt swallowed her whole and looked more like a dress than anything. She glanced up from her phone and smiled back at him. “Hey, birthday boy.” She said, “Oh, I’m sorry, it’s not your birthday any more.” She added sarcastically.

Sweet Pea rolled his eyes at her as he got undressed, stripping down to his boxers before turning off the light and laying down beside her. Lavender planted her face into his hard chest as he arms wrapped tightly around here.

They laid in silence for a few moments before she broke it. “Where do you think she’s going?” Lav murmured. He could barely hear her as her voice was muffled by his skin. She always seemed to smother herself against him whenever she got the chance. He had no idea how she could possibly comfortably breathe.

“I don’t know.” Sweet Pea said in a voice that was barely above a whisper. “She’s been different since she got back. She’s always in a shitty mood. Yells at me any chance she gets. I know that I hurt her and that I deserve it but...I don’t know, something just doesn’t feel right.”

Lavender let out a small hum in response, unsure of what to say. “You should thank her.” She said finally and she felt him tense up against her.

“For what?” He asked, confused by why his girlfriend would suggest such a thing. “She broke us up.”

“Maybe,” Lavender replied, moving her head slightly so he could hear her better, “but she also got us back together. I probably would have still been trying to prove something to her if she hadn't apologized to me. I guess you and the others laid into her pretty badly for what she said.”

His grip on her tightened. “I told her she was a jealous idiot.” He hissed. “And that you were going to therapy. And...that you still need protection.”

“What are you talking about? We took care of the Ghoulies.” Lavender replied, not understanding. She had been in the clear since the dust settled after taking out the last three.

“The Ghoulies want revenge, Shanna.” Sweet Pea said. “They’ve been making threats again. Jughead may have gotten a lot of them locked away for the time being with that stupid race, but they’ll be out sooner rather than later. It won’t be good.”

She attempted to pull away from him but he wouldn’t let her, keeping his arms firmly in place. “Are you saying they’re after me again? Sweet Pea, why didn’t you tell me?!”

He could feel her heart rate spike through their chests, hear the impending terror in her voice. “They’ve got a score to settle with you, but we won’t let it happen. Okay? Fangs and I have been watching you day and night.”

“Why didn’t you tell me?” She asked in a pathetic tone, no longer fighting against him.

“Because if I had then you would have been too scared to sleep and when you don’t sleep you’re an impossible bitch to be around.” Sweet Pea said, “Nothing is going to happen. We’ll watch out for you.”

Lavender huffed, her heart still racing. She attempted to shove her fear outside of her mind, tried to will herself to calm down. At least she felt safe there, in his bed with him holding her so tightly that she could barely move. It was better than being home alone. Hell, it was even better than sharing a bed with Fangs like she often did during her and Sweet Pea’s time apart. The thought of them being together again was the only thing that allowed her to slowly drift to sleep.

The next day, the young Serpents decided to go to the quarry to relieve some stress that had been building due to rising tensions with the Ghoulies. Lavender had opted to wear a sundress that was long enough to cover the tops of her thighs where her scars were. She was lounging in the sun, sipping a daiquiri that Fangs had made for everyone before they left. He filled as many thermoses as he could find to keep them from melting too fast.

Sweet Pea had bought her a new bikini so that she couldn’t use the excuse that hers no longer fit. He wasn’t totally clueless and the biggest sign that she was having body issues were the photos she had given him. Her scars had been barely visible when he knew they were thick bands of stark white against her skin. Either Toni had edited the photos or she had covered her scars with makeup. He assumed the latter.

Lavender made the excuse that she didn’t feel like swimming so she was just going to sit on the shore. She wasn’t about to go in front of everyone wearing nothing but a skimpy bikini. Though she quite loved the one he had bought for her, she simply wasn’t ready.

He walked up, dripping wet as he sat down next to her. She smiled at him softly and offered him her drink, which he took and gulped down. “The water feels great. You should go in.” He said, pretending to be oblivious to her concerns. “It’s not too cold like you thought it might be.”

She frowned, not wanting to argue with him but not wanting to go in either. “Maybe later.” She murmured. “Daisy really likes the water, huh?” She asked in an attempt to change the subject.

They watched the little nine month old, held by her mother, splash around in the water. She was giggling and babbling, making all kinds of happy noises. The others all had smiles on their faces as well. They didn’t seem to notice either teen on the bank.

Sweet Pea did not allow for her to deflect the conversation. He stood back up and quickly scooped his girlfriend into his arms. Lav grappled with him, attempting to get away as she knew what he was about to do. “Sweet Pea! Stop! Put me down!”

“No, you’re going to have fun with us.” He said angrily. “You’re not going to sit over here by yourself like a loser anymore. Christ, even Jones is out there instead of being a wet blanket.”

They came closer to the water and Lav continued to struggle, doing anything she could to get away. Anything besides physically hurting him, which she really did not want to do. “I mean it, Nathaniel, put me down!”

“Okay, Shanna.” Sweet Pea said, dropping her suddenly. She realized her mistake when her body hit the water. She screamed again at him as she righted herself as quickly as she could.

“You are such an asshole!” She screeched, attempting to storm back to shore, however he stopped her by standing in front of her. Any time she tried to get around, he’d move to block her still.

“You’re going to swim with us.” He said firmly. “Or else.”

She rolled her eyes, “Or else what? I’m not a child!”

He leaned down to whisper to her, “Or else I’ll hold out on you, baby girl. Don’t forget, I know just how much you need me to get you off.”

Lavender stopped, her face heating up even though she knew the others couldn’t hear him. “Prick.” She hissed before sinking down into the water. “I hate you.”

Sweet Pea merely shrugged nonchalantly, “sure you do. Why don’t you take your dress off so it doesn’t get ruined.”

She glared at him, “It wouldn’t be ruined if someone didn’t drop me into the water!”

Fangs swam over to them, grabbing Lav by the waist. “I can unzip you!” He said, a giant grin on his handsome face. “I’ll take it to shore. I gotta take a leak.”

“I’m not taking my dress off!” She snapped at the two of them as she tried to get out of Fangs’ grasp. It wasn’t much use, he was too strong for her and the water resistance made it ever harder to struggle.

“Take it off, Fogarty.” Sweet Pea said darkly.

Lavender began to panic, her eyes flooding with tears that made both boys stop their harassment. What Sweet Pea hadn’t intended was triggering her with his order. Her mind jolted into the darkness of a flashback from that night.

“God damn it.” Sweet Pea huffed as he pulled her into his arms to try and calm her down. She only struggled against him, hitting his chest as hard as she could until he let her go. She swam around him and took to the shore, grabbing a towel before running into the forest.

“Good job, asshole.” Lily said and Sweet Pea noticed that everyone was glaring at him. He groaned and turned, about to go after her when Lily stopped him. “Don’t. You’ll make things worse. I’ll go while you play with Daisy.”

Sweet Pea reluctantly took his daughter into his arms as Lily, Toni, and Cheryl all went to go after Lav. Fangs and Jughead were quiet, watching them go. A heavy silence fell on them as Sweet Pea bit the inside of his cheek. He wanted to scream until his lungs gave out or punch something until it reduced to tiny little pieces. He had been so good at not triggering her. He hadn’t stepped on a landmine in months . All that work vanished in a split second when he pushed her too far. Christ, why did he always take things too far?

In the woods, Lavender had found a large rock to curl up on as she cried. She didn’t soften her sobs, not realizing that she had been followed. She let herself break down into a soggy mess, unable to form a coherent thought. She could feel their knives gliding across her skin. Her clothes rip off her body. The sheer pain and terror all came back as strong as the night it happened.

“Lavie,” A soft voice broke the sounds of her crying. Lav shrunk against the stone, turning so her back was to the person who called her name. She didn’t want anyone to see her like this. It was embarrassing.

She felt Toni’s arm wrap around her shoulders in a soothing gesture. Lav’s body tensed, unwilling to relax against anyone in the moment even if it was her best girlfriend. “It’s okay, you’re not alone. We’re here.”

Lav did her best to stifle her sobs. She hiccuped back tears as she finally leaned into Toni’s side for comfort. She felt guilty for ruining their fun. “I-I’m sorry.” She managed to stutter out. “I-I didn’t mean.”

“Do not apologize, Purpura Serpenta.” Cheryl said in a calming tone. Lav felt her arm wrap around her waist. “You did nothing wrong.” She added. “That buffoon of a boyfriend of yours is at fault.”

“He didn’t mean to.” Lavender said in a weak attempt to defend him. She didn’t sound like she believed herself.

Lily sat down behind her, resting her back against hers. “He was being an idiot.” She said in a frustrated tone that was totally directed at him and not the crying girl behind her. “Obviously you didn’t want to swim, he should have just left you alone.”

“It’s not that…” Lav mumbled, “I did want to.”

Toni squeezed her shoulder. “You can tell us, Lavie, it’s okay.”

“They’re so ugly.” Lav murmured, nearly breaking down again. “I don’t want anyone to see them.”

The other three were silent, unsure of what to say. Toni and Cheryl continued to hold her as Lily kept their backs touching for her own show of support. “I know it’s not the same but...I feel like my body is a disaster after pregnancy.” Lily said, hiding her face so they couldn’t see how embarrassed she felt to admit it. “My stomach isn't back to where it used to be...I’ve got these gross stretch marks that won’t ever go away. I just wish it could have gone back to what it was before Sweet Pea knocked me up.”

“I wish I was taller.” Toni confessed. “Also not the same, but I hate being so small. No one takes me seriously until I punch them or pull out my knife. It’s such a headache.”

“I love your height.” Cheryl said with a small pout. “It’s perfect to me.”

Lavender began to breathe normally again as she slowly crawled back up from the depths of her inner hell. “I shouldn’t have run away with the Ghoulies giving threats...I’m such an idiot.”

“We wouldn’t let you come out here alone.” Toni replied, pulling her closer. “So don’t worry about that. Even when Sweet Pea and Fangs are being complete jerks, we’ll always have your back.” The other two girls murmured an affirmative.

After a few beats of silence, Lavender uncurled herself from the rock. “We should go back. Before the boys hurt themselves somehow.”

Lily snorted, “dumbasses.” She stood up and offered her hand to Lavender who reluctantly took it. She smiled at her warmly. “You know the best way to get back at him?” She asked, a devious glint in her eye that did not match her smile.

Lav blinked, “what?”

“Just ignore him. He can’t take it. It drives him absolutely crazy.” Lily said, trying her best not to giggle. “I used to do it any time he annoyed me or pissed me off. He’ll be begging for attention in minutes.”

A small smile broke across Lav’s lips. “Okay. Why don’t we both do it?” She asked. “It’ll be twice as much punishment.”

Lily couldn’t help but laugh at the idea, “brilliant, let’s do it.” The two linked arms before returning to the quarry, completely ignoring Sweet Pea, Fangs and Jughead the rest of the afternoon.

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searchingwardrobes · 4 years

Text

Review 2 of 2

I know it’s been a month since part one of this review (which you can read HERE), but I had to collect my thoughts on this book! Not because I had mixed feelings about it - it’s honestly one of the best books I’ve ever read - but because it made me so emotional. I did write a review on Goodreads, which I’m posting below, and after that I’ve included several passages that moved me as I read. I marked a LOT of them (sorry, library), so I hope I can narrow them down. Having said that, this will get long, so more under the cut!

Tagging: @snowbellewells @reynoldsreads @whimsicallyenchantedrose @ekr032-blog-blog @superchocovian @lfh1226-linda @nikkiemms @thislassishooked @branlovestowrite @tiganasummertree and I thought of you @distant-rose for the way Joy fell in love with England just as much as with Jack :)

****I guess you can say there are technically spoilers beyond this point, but since this is all historical information, many may already know these details. ***

Before I get into that though, I want to clarify a few questions I brought up when I was only half way through the book. I wondered about their letter writing and why those letters were destroyed. Turns out CS Lewis burned all of the letters he received because people wrote to him about very personal things, and he didn’t want those being published after his death. So, that makes sense, I guess, though it still doesn’t explain what happened to the letters he wrote to her, unless he burned those too after her death for the same reason. Jack (what his close friends called Lewis) had a civil marriage with Joy first because of immigration issues, and she and the boys lived in a separate house. However, they still spent a lot of time at the Kilns (Lewis’s home) and lived there briefly at different times. Their relationship, according to most sources, wasn’t physical at that time (however, does anyone really know for sure except for the two of them?), and the book depicts it that way. The church refused to marry them because Joy was divorced, and this was a major issue for Jack due to his faith. Only after a sympathetic priest married them in a hospital did they consummate the marriage.

The major source material for this book was an unpublished manuscript called Courage containing forty-five love sonnets Joy Davidman wrote to CS Lewis. David Gresham, Joy’s son, found them in the back of a closet in 2013. Most of the chapters in the book start with lines from these sonnets. And these sonnets are definitely intimate and passionate. I’ll confess, it’s a little weird when you imagine that famous picture of CS Lewis we’ve all seen a million times, bald headed with his pipe. Like reading sexy poems someone wrote to your grandpa. Nevertheless, the love story crafted in this book was breathtaking.

Here’s the review I wrote on Goodreads:

I almost don't know where to start with this book, it was so good! The writing style, the phrasing, the characterization, it was all stellar. I felt like I knew Joy personally reading this. I also loved how the author didn't romanticize Joy or Jack (C.S. Lewis). She wrote them flaws and all, including their physical traits. This isn't Hollywood, air brushing the protagonists so they fit society's definition of "sexy." This book proves you don't need attractive people to tell a passionate, romantic love story. Love is so much deeper than that. I think that can sum up this entire book: love sees past our flaws; love is attracted to our minds and our souls, not just our faces and bodies; and love blooms best when it's rooted in a strong friendship.

This book also tackled the sexism rampant in the 1950s and how that impacted Joy, who broke the mold on what a woman should be. It makes you realize how the social norms of the day influenced Lewis's friends and their opinions of Joy. (Tolkien despised her.) You also feel Joy's oppression under these expectations and understand why Jack's friendship meant so much to her. He viewed her as an intellectual equal, something she was desperate for. I also was heartbroken over the poor medical care she received simply because she was a woman, with the doctors often completely ignoring her to address the men in her life and making light of her symptoms. Today, she might have lived.

I refuse to read other reviews because I have a feeling many Christians won't like this book. Joy is not a sanitized Christian heroine. She would definitely fit in more with the "bad girls" of the Bible like Rahab and the woman at the well than she would with Sarah or Hannah. She was a real person who came to faith late in life. She made mistakes even after her conversion, and some of them will make the reader uncomfortable. There were a lot of gray areas in her life and in her relationship with Jack that aren't easy to grapple with. So if you're looking for a black and white, squeaky clean, shining beacon of virtue you'll be disappointed. But if you're willing to take the journey with Joy, it's a fantastic tale!

Now for some of my favorite passages! (The book is in first person from Joy’s point of view):

“What could I have done differently? I begged the tortured Christ in stained glass.

My parents had warned me - Why can’t you be softer, nicer, and kinder? Prettier? More like Renee? {Renee was a cousin and one of her husband’s many affairs.} Why couldn’t I? Was this my punishment for such self-will?”

“I stayed and felt the enormous noise vibrate through my body. Chills ran through me, and I shivered with the unceasing sounds, which were cleansing me, coursing through my veins, through my mind and my spirit. The tenor and fifth ringing together, not synchronized or in harmony but in perfect sublime sound. My boundaries dissolved; transcendence enveloped me. God was with me, and always had been. He was in the earth and the wind, in the ringing and the silence, in the pain and in the glory of my life.”

“In his office Jack didn’t just read; he went deep inside the work his eyes fell upon, taking apart the sentences and themes. And while I was nearby, he would often call my name.

‘Joy,’ he’d say, ‘what do you think . . . ‘

Off we’d go into a theological or thematic discussion. Sometimes I feared I would wake and be back in the rambling, falling-apart house in Staatsburg, Bill stumbling drunk down the hallway smelling of sex and whiskey, and find my time with Jack had only been a dream. But instead I sat in the armchair of his office at the top of the staircase discussing the meaning hidden in stories.”

“It’s not an apology, Jack. Can’t you see? It’s grace, the kind that hunts us down and doesn’t let us go. It brought us together. The grace that keeps the planets in their orbits and causes lilies to open their faces to the sun.” I dared to meet his eyes with mine. “It’s love.”

“No.” I took another sip of sherry. “I’m confused . . . . About Jack, I don’t know. This time it’s not just about some physical need. For goodness’ sake, the man smokes sixty cigarettes a day and then his pipe in between. He’s seventeen years older than I am. But he still has this great gusto for life - for beer and debate and walking and deep friendship. Christianity most definitely has not turned him into a dud. This isn’t some lust-fueled fantasy. It’s the connection between us. The discourse. The empathy. The similar paths. This isn’t some obsession with getting something, Belle. It’s the feeling of finally coming home. It’s confusing at best.”

“Red heat filled my chest. He turned to place the sword on the mantle, and the structure of his chin, the lines of his smile, caught the firelight. A line of poetry surged forward in my mind: the accidental beauty of his face.”

“He was instantly next to me, his hands on my shoulders to spin me around to face him. ‘Don’t turn from me,’ he said. ‘I cannot bear that. If we can’t indulge in eros, surely we have all the beauty that remains in philia.’ He pulled me close to wrap his arms around me. Twilight turned to night and my head rested on his shoulder and the palm of his hand was on my neck, stroking my skin with gentleness as if consoling a small child after a frightful storm.

But this wasn’t fright he was trying to subdue; this was desire. His mind might twist firm around logic, but his body divulged the truth.

It was he who let me go, and gently touched my cheek before leaving me quaking without another word.”

“Jack was alongside me every day he came to Oxford from Cambridge, and many whispered that he’d moved in. What vivid imaginations they had.

There had been a night I thought we were on a “date” - when he took me to see Bacchae, the great Greek tragedy. In the dark of the theater he had taken my hand. With our fingers wound together and the great tragic ending of the play approaching, I believed in more for us. But, alas, after leaving that darkened theater our natural rhythms returned - philia, banter, beer, and laughter.”

“At your worst?” He shook his head and his spectacles fell from his face, landed on the worn cream blanket covering my diseased body. “You are beautiful to me, Joy. You are all that is beautiful.” He tucked a stray hair back from my face. “All my life I have thought of love in a literary sense, part of a story or a fairy tale. But love is really true; I know that now. Eros - I haven’t loved completely until now. I know that.” His voice held the truth of every word spoken, a man broken by death’s threat.”

“He kissed me again. ‘Everything I’ve written since the day you walked into Eastgate has been tangled with you. How could I have not seen it at all?’”

“Will you go to them?” I took his hand in mine. “They need you, and they love you, Jack. You know that, don’t you?’

‘As I love them.’ He kissed me and left as a father to my sons.

“All the years wasted believing that love meant owning or possessing, and now the greatest love had arrived in my greatest weakness. In my supreme defeat came my grandest victory. God’s paradoxes had no end.”

“I didn’t know if others understood his deep love for me. I’d wondered and then let it go - it didn’t matter what Tollers {Jack’s nickname for Tolkien} or the Inklings or the Sayers believed. Maybe Jack had admitted his love or maybe he hadn’t, but all that mattered was that I grasped the truth. He loved me when I was brash. He loved me in my weakest state. He loved me after I stopped trying so hard to make him love me. He loved me when I was outwardly unworthy. I thought of Aslan and his words in Prince Caspian, ‘You doubt your value. Don’t run from who you are.’”

“His brown eyes seemed fathomless, their depths holding the answers. ‘Although it was your mind I loved at first, it is not what I’ve loved best. The heart of you is the heart of me now, and I want to know it fully.’”

#melanie reads #book review #becoming mrs lewis #patti callahan #review 2 of 2

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yeeosang-archive2 · 4 years

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ok i kinda love food discourse so!! thoughts on: tomatoes, mushrooms, root beer, bell peppers, chocolate ice cream, licorice?-hongjoonim

@hongjoonim

tomatoes - i don’t like them in slice form but everything else is fine ahskndf

mushrooms - it’s a no from me dawg

root beer - my absolute favourite kind of pop if i ever drink

bell peppers - i like them!!

chocolate ice cream - it’s nice but if i eat too much i get a headache

licorice - it’s also a no from me dawg

#sajjdfjskdf #i wonder if im gonna get dragged for any of these #Anonymous #answered

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oliviahellerarchive · 5 years

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( KRISTEN BELL + CISFEMALE ) — Have you seen OLIVIA HELLER ? This THIRTY-SIX year old is a VIDEO ESSAYIST and FILM PRODUCER who resides in BROOKLYN. SHE has been living in NYC for TWENTY YEARS, and is known to be HOSPITABLE and QUICK-WITTED, but can also be POMPOUS and PRICKLY, if you cross them. People tend to associate them with COFFEE LEFT OUT OVERNIGHT and COLLECTOR’S EDITION BOX SETS — details under the cut!

BASICS

call her olivia, liv, livvie, livia... go crazy tbh. she doesn’t mind.

as the line goes, just a small-town girl livin’ in that lonely world… or more accurately, born and raised midwestern lass who worked hard in high school, scored a scholarship to columbia, and never looked back.

initially wanted to go into political journalism, and had the academic credentials to back it up. but she couldn’t resist the pull of new york and the culture that comes with it, that she wound up working freelance for magazines instead. think variety, slate, the new yorker, criterion, sight & sound… ya know the drill. also worked a couple of odd jobs on the side to raise money bc this is NYC babey

after a good decade of going back and forth jobs, she now holds a permanent staff position at the new yorker, and it was around this time that she’d begun experimenting with video essays — which she considers a more dynamic medium. that’s her main job now, but she still gets assigned feature writeups every now and then. an example of liv’s video essays around that time (x) (x) (x) (x)

she also operates a youtube channel that aims to bring those more niche interests to a more accessible platform, kinda like nerdwriter’s channel except defo less popular (maybe half a million subscribers after four years, probs, but a few of her videos have gone viral). a lot of ppl in her line of work think it’s a shame she’s channeled her energy there but she’s like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ bro u gonna gatekeep art forever or what.

has dabbled in filmmaking a few times in the past. mainly works as a line producer for independent films, but is constantly in want of new challenges. most recently, she’s involved w/ @giobaldini’s first feature ... among other things.

main inspirations: kogonada for her career; megan amram, claire from bon appetit, and a bit of eleanor shellstrop for her personality.

PERSONALITY, MOTIVATIONS, ETC.

her mom’s a high school teacher and her dad’s a laborer. she has three other siblings with whom she has a good, if not slightly distant, relationship. part of why she’s set out to NYC is because she wants to get out of that life, where nothing seems to be a-changin’ — sorta like ladybird from… well, lady bird. she’s harbored a lot of success since but, due to her working-class roots, she still harbors a lot of insecurity but also anger towards the (mostly) rich ppl in her line of work

she loves to be disagreeable sfdgkjsdfgsh and to an extent feeds off discourse. she’s the type of person to get into a minor fight on her twitter replies or youtube comments. it’s what’s gotten her in trouble with management, too

liv doesn’t have the warmest personality, but it is pretty easy to get to know her. the way to her heart is incredibly easy: a good film, bagels from the store down the street, and cold beer, and you’ve pretty much assured her friendship. but she’s the type to inadvertently collect people and their stories rather than sustaining actual relationships. she doesn’t exactly know how to just… talk to people, and committing to friendships or relationships rarely comes from her initiative. it’s something she knows is fundamentally wrong and trying very hard to overcome, especially because it’s hurt her and other people more times than she cares to admit.

the biggest virgo alive. please handle with caution.

she’s made a career of making video essays in ~arthouse filmes~ but don’t let that shit fool u. her favorite film is wimbledon.

tl;dr a big nerd who’s made a career out of being a nerd.

hi, everyone! my name’s laine, 20+, gmt+8 and i’m so glad to be a part of this RP. olivia is a relatively new character of mine, and i would absolutely love new plots! currently looking for any and all connections lmao but i’ll automatically be reaching out if you reply/like to this post! :)

#codintro

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elizabethrobertajones · 6 years

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14x04 watching notes

Happy Birthday, Davy!

Mittens just ominously warned me to warm up this notepad while I waited for the episode to finish downloading.

The nice guy from the phone provider has recently restored our internet after 4 days of radio silence from me, but it's only about 4'o clock on friday, so really some good timing!

Expectations: pre-mittens warning, Davy back on his nonsense with the scary episodes and expected nonsense of sinking back into MotW after mytharc but in capable hands because, you know, new writing team is aces and all.

post-mittens warning: idk but I should get a stuffed toy?

That's a suspicious amount of ghost lore.

Has Heaven started dumping the spirits out now and if it really IS a ghost it's not going to behave properly?

Oh my god it's a Hell Hazers poster.

There was something I would have talked about pre-episode but had no internet so didn't, but the focus on Dean and nerds and the expectation that this episode would be about a comic book store, did remind me of 9x07 and the action figure which was all "i clobber evil!" and was a strong Dean mirror, including that he needlessly burned it on the stove to try and get rid of the ghost of the mom but it turned out she needed to be talked into letting her son let her go in a scene which has all sorts of shades of Dean vs Mary in 12x22 now and also Dean's entire mark of cain arc was in the self-destruction of his self as an action figure that clobbered evil. A reminder that Dean is this figure seems fairly timely with him coming down from being possessed, as of course he has been used as an action figure. And his willingness to turn himself into one in 13x23 was very much turning himself into the Michael Sword, which in this cosmos is practically like the rarest collectible action figure of the universe. This harks back all the way to the first season and Dean's issues with John's control and the whole blunt little instrument arc, also something that fed directly into demon!Dean, and is being reflected this season in Nick, who murdered a guy with a hammer, after his family was murdered by a hammer, and said yes to Lucifer because of all that angst about hammer murder. Subtle.

Anyway, this is sort of the emotional background to me for action figures in the show.

A Hell Hazers poster also reminds us that Dean is a horror fan, his own connections to the genre, a CLASSIC episode, and a time when he was living his best life briefly.

You know, before he sold his soul for *waves at previous big paragraph* reasons

Fitting for how season 13 ended with Dean this close to happy world peace retirement living his best life :P

Awww the fake movie the MotW comes from is called All Saints Day. Davyyy :')

People I know who are born on like October SECOND consider themselves extra spooky halloween people. I can only imagine what it does, as a 23rd Oct. birthday person, to the psyche to actually be born ON it.

This episode's subtitle is just "Lol I have the best birthday, fuckers"

ACTUAL CLIP FROM 2x18!

And the fucking racist truck >.> Which in-universe was teased as another different movie using the footage in the trailer for Hell Hazers II.

My mum has that exact Wonder Woman figure

This guy is wearing a trenchcoat-featured jacket with a maroon t-shirt under it. I could not tell you what he represents but the trenchcoat part is amusing.

I can't *actually* start saying everything is party!Cas symbolism though so I'll just shush

Er this rando that people were saying was dressed like Sam from the promo images literally is called Sam, and she's wearing a very very loud checkered shirt, of course featuring a lot of orange. I'm guessing with that info it's next to impossible to say she ISN'T in some way a Sam parallel :P

Comic Book Guy is possibly caught in the middle of stealing an action figure, and I can't work out if he is just nervous about that or has a crush on Sam because his behaviour was so suspect, but from the promo scene where he looks a lil worse for the wear he talks about breaking up with his goth gf, and Sam is very clearly a nerd, not a goth.

(Goth nerds are things. The media will get there one day :P)

Oh okay after a few lines of the exchange, yeah this guy is a dick, I have NO clue why he's wearing that coat symbolism wise, and Sam really ought to fire him because wow, uncool and also he seems to be a stereotypical nerdbro gatekeeper who would literally rather scare off customers but be right than just enjoy what they all enjoy together.

Then he apologises for getting angry for saying he just gets spun out sometimes. Honestly, this seems to be crossing over into Dean territory considering the last thing from the recap was Dean being told he was like Michael by Bad Kaia and being really angry when he said he was nothing like him... He also used "spun out" about himself in 12x20 but in rather more tragic lost-Cas circumstances but obviously this parallel has a different lesson to tell than just making them equivalent. This guy is so awful and is using his anger in a petty way over things that don't really matter. He's getting spun out over made up battles rather than real angst, and whether he has his own underlying trauma that makes him behave that way or not, the straight white nerd is one of the secondary main villains of the century so far after the literal alt right, with some overlap of course. Think Kylo Ren as one of the dominant critiques of this behaviour :P Compared to the open of 8x11 for example, where the nerds were harmless weirdoes despite also being straight white and obsessive, the aggression and obsession are played not just as a harmless trait of people who like LARPing and collecting toys, but gatekeep, yell at kids over superman facts, and refuse to have their own dominance challenged.

Thinking he could fight superman might actually explain the Cas like jacket - it's too short to be a coat - that he idealises these heroes, is wearing Batman (who in pop culture most recently was around "v superman") and Cas of course has all his superman comparisons from both 6x20, and his rebirth in 12x01 where he came back to earth as a fiery comet and was immediately mistaken for a spaceman. There's some dark idolisation/mirroring here, that he's debating how to fight the guy (krytonite gloves = the BMoL knuckledusters) and at the same time mirroring the show's Superman in his dress. Only much, much lesser. More subtextual mockery about his weakness and how he doesn't really measure up.

I think in a lot of ways the discourse about nerds in pop culture is moving on now to make this difference clear, that the ones who will be mocked are the ones who deserve it for being too cruel to respect, while in many other ways the mainstreaming of nerd culture into pop culture, meaning a large amount of it is no longer mockable, that everyone had at least SOME nerdy indulgences, means that in general nerdom is more accepted and exalted than ever. SPN obviously having its own deep roots into nerd culture has some direct room for commentary here, and this is also a way of reminding its own fans to be cool and not to be this guy.

Oh, huh, he safely exited the shop. I did not see that coming.

LOL he has batman bedding on a fold out bed in either a shed, garage or basement where he lives.

(This detail was tragic in Attack the Block but it's quite clear in this case the guy is fully grown and is being used as a detail to show his forward progression in life)

Wow, you really have some rage issues here. Especially trying to wrangle free pizza i mean dude. Talk about a line that personifies him 100 different ways in one go :P Who shouts at their pizza delivery place?? They remember your number! This is how to get extra toppings.

Oh my god please get beaten to death by this lil guy

(I know I know he survives he's in the promo)

Is this like... haunted kidney episode... but better?

Actually, Fallen Idols plus Mannequin episode but better.

You know how we saw in the last new year? Watching Small Soldiers for the first time since like the 90s or whenever it came out

The show's animation is so much better

Than Small Soldiers and itself from past years

Oh DEAN

I mean he totally deserves a day off.

I can't believe he owns these socks. Who got them for him for Christmas?

Okay, well first we have to work out which was the last Christmas they had where they were not in prison or in an alternate dimension or dead or -

Cas. It was Cas.

He literally had no idea this wasn't just a cute commentary on how much Chinese take out Dean eats

Anyway as far as I can tell Dean is living out the bisexualdemondean header just to spite Michael for defiling his temple. He's filling it with noods and pizza (and I am sure he didn't yell at the delivery guy, but tipped him well instead for making drop offs at a shady street corner miles from where anyone lives)

Honestly it's been 12 years since Hell Hazers II... What took them so long

Dean's drunk a full thing of Margiekugle mom beer, which is a lil worrying just in terms of him using it instead of comfort from her like in 12x02, now that she's back.

God I want Dean to meet the asshole from the comic shop and for him to get into a dick measuring contest about Hell Hazers II and Dean to be like uh I WORKED on it you ass

Er, does that vending machine contain the nougat of choice of your consumptive son on the other side of the wall?

(who may be out with Cas concealing his consumption on a case so not bothered by all this TV noise)

God I love and have missed Dean, my trashy guy who is sitting hugging a pillow like a teen girl at a sleepover to watch his hatchetman slasher to celebrate being back to himself and get the much-needed R&R, since, you know, last time we saw him he threatened to "break" Kaia and was in a very very bad place (lol)

This guy about to get murdered for trying to snatch a nougat bar is dressed like the unfortunate bandmate (Tommy?) to Vincifer. Is this an oblique Ladyheart reference to set up a weird scenario where Hatchetman is punishing a Lucifer-adjacent asshole for trying to steal Nougat?

I can't believe there's a red exit sign behind him which means Wanek is Waneking in multiple dimensions at once

"Mint Condition" flashes up over Dean indulging in his pizza, saying, hey look it's our guy back in shape. Or, you know, ironically so. Either because Dean being Dean means eating junk food and wallowing because his husband has wandered off with the kid and isn't home to snuggle him while he does this mandatory bedrest, or because, of course, Dean is not Mint Condition at all. He's literally and emotionally scarred.

I am pretty sure this shirt that Sam has on is 12 years old.

Statistically, they're gonna get murdered in each and every one of their original Kripke era shirts until none of them are available to be murdered in later.

I say for no particular reason.

Leave Sam alone. He doesn't shave you mock him, he does shave, you... also mock him. He was doing really well while you were gone! No one got even slightly stabbed who didn't deserve it! This is an all-time record. A beard is a price to pay for that.

Honestly I think Dean is stoned but they're not going to say so but I am treating this scene like it is.

"I wanted to check up on you," Sam says, pulling over a chair. This is so like how he was in 14x01 when he was powering around the Bunker being the boss, and given Dean's been on bedrest, again, much-needed, Sam is treating him like another one of his charges, and once more is in a position of authority... But now, despite shaving to act like nothing has changed a bit more, he is the one in charge of Dean as one of his wards. Everything has changed. Your dynamic is actually wobbling in a weird way.

In season 10 when Dean was laid up with the Mark blues especially around 10x12, which this intro also reminds me of, re: Dean spending a week in his room and Sam popping in to check on him, Sam was still keeping a very wary eye on Dean more that he was a bomb that may explode, and that while he needed to be managed, the power dynamic was extremely, extremely horrifying in that if Sam messed up Dean would murder him. Not an ongoing implicit threat between them, but the knowledge that Dean could become a demon again and demon!Dean would attempt to kill Sam, and so Sam had better do his utmost to keep Dean in a good place. Even if it eventually meant a series of convoluted secrets to try and fix him against his wishes.

Obviously, things are different here. Sam has developed a LOT since then, with season 11 beginning a recovery of his character in tentative little steps which actually kicked off in season 12, and, specifically, in 12x04 under Davy Perez in American Nightmare heralding the new era of Sam focus and lovingly stroking his hair and lavishing him with Sam-sculpted episodes the like of which we hadn't seen all through Carver era.

Now when Sam comes into Dean's room and pulls up a chair and sits down to check up on him, he actually radiates a comfortable, competent authority to do so.

... however he is doing it in that pink shirt which I honestly love the concept of but just wish that I couldn't see Sam in 2x06 showing up in it for the first time, like, my brain is just screaming at him to go get a bunch more pink shirts and refresh his wardrobe

I'm so certain of it but now I have to check because 12 years is such a long time but

http://www.homeofthenutty.com/supernatural/screencaps/albums/SPN2x06/SPN_0060.jpg

Mittens yelled "OH MY GOD" when I sent her the link so I think I'm right

Like, conceptually in every way it's great because it's this long pink shirt that fits him well, fuck toxic masculinity, blah blah action heroes in pink shirts, love it love it love it, but also: it's another fucking plaid shirt Sam has owned since he was a gap-toothed child six years younger than Jack presents as

Dean is lacking his second bedside table, as he has been for seasons, but I'm just staring at him lying sideways on his bed, wondering about his set up, and if this is in any way similar to how he watched all those cowboy movies with Cas, since Davy, of course, was the one to suggest that they had been watching movies together.

"And... not that I'm complaining... House is full of strangers"

Yeah, we know you hate it, Dean. God, it's tragic. In a wonderful way. Sam's built this little empire for himself and it's on top of Dean's old nesting spot. Dean's been forced into his room not just to hide away because he's ashamed but because he doesn't want to be seen and there's too many strange eyes out there. However this resolves, it's going to force some growth. Honestly, as much as Dean loves this room and it means to us, it's also a bleak lonely spot and in the like 7 years they've had the Bunker, Dean's never hooked up in that bed, while it has come to be very much like, well... The bed of an angry nerd living in a basement still using Batman sheets. Again, dark parallels, but of Dean in a dark place.

I'd love if he moved out and got a house in the suburbs.

I mean.

Cas has a house in the suburbs.

(Re: long-running Lizzy watching notes in-jokes about where he stashes a bunch of stuff like demon tablets, first blades, metatron's grace, etc etc)

But yeah, no. I like the idea of Dean nesting, of course. But aside from the obvious conveniences, the Dean Cave, etc, there's no reason it HAS to be here except that this is their inheritance and it's safe. But as I constantly talk about with the library abutting the war room, the work/life balance is always in question and filling the Bunker with strangers is a great way to shove all the life balance out, and leave the only spot left of that to Dean in this room.

If the AU peeps don't all get sent home but remain at least in part a hunter community and maybe even network and grow as the Winchesters finally open up the Bunker's resources and share them and stop being all isolated like Carver era fiercely protected... Dean might have no choice but to move his nesting down the road to somewhere with a sofa where he can park his car out front, and choose to commute in to work.

Awww they have the "our lives are a scary movie" argument again, in a well-worn way. So well-worn this is repeating dialogue from somewhere or other... 2x18? 4x07? God I don't know, implicit in Sam's eyerolling at Halloween in 1x01? All of the above? I am not looking that up. But anyway their stances haven't moved, possibly because this is something that has never really been challenged before. If Sam didn't hate scary movies already, watching 18 hours of Hell Hazers II dailies probably did in any remaining sympathy he would have had towards them, while Dean thrived there.

I guess he may finally have had time to watch it?

And of course stay for the credits to see his name.

Anyway Dean has historically cited movies as research or job adjacent, or vicariously enjoyed watching monsters at work from the safe remove of a screen, while Sam throws it all in to that box where of course it goes to 1x01 where he's running away from ALL of it and has his oddly specific choices to avoid halloween in his day to day as Lawboy. He's struggled to indulge in the weird as a hobby, likes serial killers as, as far as we can diagnose, an outlet of darkness but purely human, and keeps the work/life balance in a rather unhealthy way of denial and boxing things away, because so much of his early seasons arcs were about resisting the life and refusing the call. This harks back to their literal first episode characterisations of Dean being all in and Sam being all out and it's interesting to have us back here in season 14, in a period of such deep reflection, when Sam has finally sort of accepted the life, found a niche in the work that suits him as the boss, and Dean is struggling now with retirement questions, and taking a week off, not liking his home full of strangers, etc etc.

"More Michael Monsters?" Dean asks immediately quick fire when Sam says he has a case.

He may have taken a week off to indulge in pizza but that obsession lurks under his skin. He's in no way done, though I think perhaps better prepared to enter this case than he had been, though of course he's billed as still struggling.

Dean also instantly recognises the Thundercats name, and I'm afraid it's something I'm just not familiar with, that I clearly missed some wave of it when I was younger and it hasn't come back around as an adult... I can't wait to read stuff by people who know more about it and say tragic things about Dean's connection to it. But the important thing here is the dark mirror to the guy who got beat up by the toy, because Dean is being shown as also an enthusiastic nerd who knows the franchise and is excited by this concept and is leaping into a case about it with a "strippers, Sammy. Finally!" level of enthusiasm.

Healthy nerds and unhealthy nerds. But at the same time, Dean might be a better nerd, but his anger last episode is still being examined through this guy.

I love that for Sam and Dean, dressing up for Halloween is dressing up like total nerds in a totally different pop culture way - the old appearance of geeks which is wildly outdated but damned if they aren't putting on pocket protectors anyway. It's a caricature but it's one that is at total odds with who they are as people... More of a traditional halloween thing where normally Sam and Dean are really scary people with weapons, so when you make them dress all topsy turvy, they dress like this instead. They ARE halloween costumes, in their day to day.

Dean continues watching in the shop, Sam eyes up the Red Hood.

I watched that a million years ago with no idea that Jensen was in it, though I had watched the first couple of seasons at that point. I think it was during my "aww the show was cancelled" phase where it was completely off my radar. It's hilarious to me now, because I don't think I COULD watch it, now I know Jensen's voice so disproportionately well. It would be so off-putting.

"She's like your twin."

Sam and Sam both tuck their hair behind their ears at the same moment.

"What are you talking about?"

So. This is going to be extremely subtle.

I hope New Sam survives the episode D:

Sam points out the other guy who people were saying based off the promo pics would be the Dean to this girl's Sam with no idea what was to come. He and Dean in this case are both eating lollipops purloined from the halloween candy.

I guess this guy in the All Saints Day t-shirt shares Dean's love of the same franchise, and seems to represent the bizarre venn diagram with Dean on one side and Andrew Dabb on the other. Their nerdy overlap.

I feel like Sam is just pointing out this character mirror to be an annoying sibling and wow do I love seeing them like this.

I also feel like there is no way Davy would do this if he wasn't about to troll the fuck out of us with these parallels in some terrifying meta way and pointing out that character parallels are a thing this blatantly is about to be Awful somehow.

The Red Hood is staring disapprovingly at them through all of this

Anyway of course Dean Parallel immediately recognises Dean's enthusiasm for Hatchetman and encourages him to press the button, which Dean does with glee. I CLOBBER EVIL. Wait no.

Sometimes we do bad things.

Oh dear.

Oh deeeeeeeeeeear.

Yeah, Hatchetman is like... idk, michael!Dean or something. Or some dark part of Dean where all his violence is and this twisted version is almost like the burned result of the I Clobber Evil hero being melted by Dean and - too meta, I am in pain.

"Vintage hot wheels!"

I know what you want because I have a smol 67 impala on my shelf. Nyoom.

He has an eeny weenie mystery machiney so he can make them race.

Okay guy who got beat up by a toy is called Stuart (I am so bad at names, honestly.)

Of course he got kicked out by his roomie for being insufferable about something as pointless as subs vs dubs, and Sam is already apologising for him before they even go meet him.

Considering there's 3 people working at the shop and Stuart had a trenchcoat, but is also being mirrored to Dean, darkly, I feel like there might be some serious shuffling going on here that surface level, Stuart had that Cas marker, but... yeah

Heeee Dean stealing the Flash mug and making Sam have the one with the cats all over it. One mug representing Stuart, one representing his mum.

I mean it is Sam's turn to have a relationship with THEIR mom this season. Idk if the mugs are actually symbolic over anything other than Dean living his best geek life right now.

I mean he's added the glasses to his ensemble, he's really living it up.

I hope he's still wearing Send Noods under this

Awww it's hot apple cider. What a good mom. This is a perfect halloween drink.

*Stuart Rage Sounds from below*

Wow this is subtle that he has some rage issues.

"Campbell and sons insurance" Hey remember when I said that this whole season's emotional set up with Sam's ownership of the AU peeps reminded me of season 6 and the Campbells? They also literally are the sons of Mary Campbell, so.

No lies, at least, with some serious stretching of the truth.

God, the detail that Dean has played Zelda.

He's being nerdy out loud constantly, and without much fear of judgement. It's wonderful. I guess he's been jostled up enough by Michael that he doesn't really care to hide this random pointless thing that in the grand scheme why should he be ashamed, and also he feels so much worse about other things that this is just an escape to have fun. It also reminds me of last season when he was mourning Cas except that this indulgence Sam is allowing him is co-sponsored by Dean and he's throwing himself into enjoying the smaller things and being more openly Dean-ish than he has in a while. Like, I don't think character comparisons to 8x11 for the nerds is the only way the episodes link :P

In 8x11 Dean's initial reaction to LARPing is that it looks awesome, then he corrects at a look from Sam to being more judgy. In 9x04 as scripted, Sam is surprised that Dean want to read Game of Thrones. So idk if that's just Robbie character interpretations since my 2 surface level examples are from his episodes or if that's just been where open nerdery has lived in past years, but anyway. Sam isn't stopping Dean from indulging in the same way - it seems he also recognises Dean's nerdiness and is less threatened by it than before, in the sense that he doesn't feel like Dean isn't acting himself, but now accepts the nerdiness is a part of Dean.

"Who needs goth girl drama" dude you are the most awful over-dramatic asshole on the show now Lucifer is dead

LOL he's trying to lie about being attacked by a toy now, and Dean points out that he got whooped so thoroughly he was beaten on the back and genitals - so yeah we look at his face and wiiiiince

"Lady you wasn't kidding."

"Big Bang in there..."

Goodness are we calling out the Big Bang theory for its toxic nerdery? Love it.

Sam and Dean halloween costumed as total nerds, still driving around in the Impala. The reverse of someone rolling up in a boring old modern car and, like, a bunch of Draculas get out.

Sam can shave off the beard but it can't stop him Bobby-ing

Dean side-eyes this

"Yeah, it was Riley, he'll be fine."

"I don't know who Riley is, but cool."

God, I am so into this whole dynamic.

Tell me more, Davy.

"So seriously, what is your deal with halloween?"

"I don't like it"

Dean, I am watching this episode on November 2nd, just so you know.

Anyway. This is literally. 1x01's opening adult Sam moment. But Dean's going back to poke Sam about it since he's someone Sam won't lie to in the same way that Sam was concealing his entire being from Jess. I mean this isn't subtle - in 1x01 Dean calls Sam out for doing this. But then, Sam doesn't exactly develop beyond it - in season 8 he does this with Amelia.

Because obviously if Sam is going to move forward and develop there's still things which are not addressed. And if Dean is having his idea of home and work challenged, and his nest disrupted until perhaps he will fly it... Sam has never ever actually addressed his work/life balance in the meaningful way where... like... this was how his difference was introduced when we first ever meet lil babby Sam smiling innocently at us on screen as a kid who has the whole future ahead of him and no idea what torment he's gonna go through. 14 years later, if he's ever going to be a grown up who can handle himself in a relationship and know what is work and what is life and how he can watch halloween movies and not feel personally offended by them but enjoy them as a fantasy and a way of boxing off their world into a safe place they don't have personal responsibility for...

Maybe he might just get a girlfriend who he can tell he is a hunter. Like. Dude. Dean was past that step before the show ever STARTED thanks to his time with Cassie.

Sam, also, metaphorically is an angry guy living in his mom's basement, but perhaps in a more metaphorical way where it's to do with living his whole life under the shadow of his mom horrifically dying as a result of the supernatural and being brought up feeling like a freak and just wanting to be normal and all

wheeee

Anyway Dean is probing for actual answers so I assume Davy will give us a solution to this this episode, but this is my take on it before we get into it properly.

Alternative hypothesis: Davy is personally offended that Sam doesn't like halloween despite it being the best holiday, is determined to fix that and fuck canon, characters can change even 14 years later.

"Don't give me this 'every day is halloween' crap because one it aint, we don't eat that much candy"

I have missed Dean and I love him with every fibre of my being, brb I need to vibrate out of existence at the sheer joy of knowing him

That was the worst "we aren't here staking out your house" move I have ever seen.

You are professionals who have been doing this together for 14 years

why was that so laughably bad?

The youtube comments are so cutting and a bunch of them are unfortunately true. It's self-awareness of using the loser nerd trope but also, cutting in a way because of course Stuart is coming across so much as someone who deserves it - and we're starting to see his mom is sweet and doesn't seem to have caused any trauma in a surface read, and that he was the one who dumped his online gf, and he starts other fights at work or with roomies, so this is getting more and more into territory where he seems fully to blame for his own situation, and therefore you CAN mock him for living in mom's basement, because he PUT himself there, and is single because he chose to be, and so on. The pervading sense that if he was a nicer person, none of this would be happening to him, right down to him stealing the toy in the first place.

Oh boy, the bloody handprint on the wall... We are back in handprint territory, and, you know, maybe because SOMEONE walking past it has been scarred on the wrong shoulder by the actions of an angel or something

There's a chinese take out carton on the shelf in this basement. I doubt it's a collectible.

Send noods.

Okay, that's sort of weird.

If the mom is in costume I don't get the reference. I hope someone else has handled that.

We're going to get her POV on her loser son now, I guess.

"Everything's fine :)" *leaves the room* "everything is not fine!"

Are we calling them out for using "fine" so loosely again too huh?

(Side note: Jack saying he's fine while consumptive, and yeah I am still upset about that. What are you doing to the boy????)

Dean and Sam split up and as Sam walks off a nurse eyes him up and smiles. No idea how intentional that was but I mean, can you blame her? :P

You know, I don't know anything about this franchise, but Sam just jumped to see a toy of a guy who looks weirdly similar to the vampires that ATE HIM a few weeks ago.

He checks over his shoulder in case Dean manifested at his side just in time to see that

Awww Dean and New Dean meet. "he must have awesome insurance"

He calls Stuart's mom "Babs" which is hilarious. They seem close.

New Dean has issues with his dad and Stuart lets him crash with him no questions asked. I suppose Dean isn't going to think too hard about how Sam's choice for his parallel has issues with his dad.

This forgiveness for Stuart's behaviour because he's kind to his own people is a very TFW trait, which makes New Dean more like Sam or Cas forgiving Dean his outbursts, as he's by far the ragiest of them, with Cas trailing in second and Sam the zen fucking master.

Lol Dean and New Dean are both dragged into the room to watch All Saints Day 3 like they're being pulled in on a line

Oh dear, they're bonding.

Davy isn't usually on top of these things but he's channeling a lot of Edlund today and Edlund always had these sort of guys like Andy or Aaron who are so Dean's type in a harmless shared interests and getting stoned together way. This is a bit extreme with the guy's tininess and scruffiness but you know, we'll see how this develops, if it's an accidental twins or a missed connections soulmate dealio.

... You're taking to someone who's still bitter that Andy and Dean would have been perfect together, so.

Also this New Dean guy is demonstrating how to be a Good Fan - he may be as intensely nerdy as Stuart, but he and Dean can compare movies and even though they don't share a favourite, agree that the whole series is great and can see the merits both in each other's favourites, and in another movie that isn't either of their favourites but could be if they happened to be inclined that way.

So healthy :')

"It was always nice to check out. I like watching movies where I KNOW the bad guy's going to lose"

Ow ow ow. But yeah, there's Dean's pro-Halloween rationale, that the tropeyness of the genre has its comforts that every ridiculous horror thing is entirely safe and no one is ACTUALLY going to get eaten by any of these things. Which is also how normal people enjoy horror but at the metaphorical remove of being scared by things we may not literally meet but still represent anxieties we might have in our real lives.

Catharsis, yo

Sam barges in on New Sam to ask her the usual series of increasingly weird questions which get the "are you really insurance?" eyebrows.

"Downtown Salem" - are they in Salem as in the witch hunt one?

I kinda love how New Sam is talking with a speech bubble beside her. So meta.

I think New Dean is called Dirk.

Oops Stuart wasn't one of the co-owners because he kept getting fired for stealing D: Stuart, dude.

"And you hired Stuart back?" "he's my friend"

I think there is commentary appearing here about not just Stuart's unhealthy explosive rage, but that the people around him enable it - even Jordan fired him TWICE rather than banish him forever. The cycle of coddling him without encouraging him to change... Again, this speaks rather more of season 10 and a critique of Sam n Cas from there rather than much currently ongoing with Dean. Sam was complicit in originally abducting Kaia and he and Jody didn't move to stop Dean with Bad Kaia, so though it's in the focus as a critique on Dean's reactions, I feel like the real bad cycles were in Carver era. Though the behaviour still somewhat exists in Dabb era, the overall unhealthiness has declined so much, there isn't a constant oppresive blanket of it as there is here in this shop with Stuart being so awful to everyone and self-destructive.

(It's probably also not a coincidence that this thing has latched onto Dean as well, a la 4x06 I'd guess... Sam got no ghost vibes in the basement, Dean did, and was attacked... To me this is seeming to suggest that his current state has picked up the ghost's ire in the same way in 4x06 he was vulnerable. Loops and loops of things going on so I'll unpick that later if it does turn out to be the case clearly.)

Anyway. This seems to be more about destructive cycles and abusive dynamics, and I would hope a nudge for Dean, though his exile at the start of this episode also suggests to me he knew full well after threatening Kaia that he'd overreacted and needed to take 5, even if there was also a layer of sulking until news of Michael. Her call out was clear enough to make him self-reflect. So I would hope that this episode is here to try and steer Dean's reaction through various pathways, ideally to keep him from falling into anything too awful, as a reminder of where this may lead?

Sam sees the glass case freeze over, and pulls out the EMF, playing it off and being like "nothing... carbon monoxide detector" even as New Sam is understandably a little freaked.

Is this messing with Sam's refusal to tell Jess about monsters by having him keep the truth from New Sam until she's physically endangered?

I mean, carbon monoxide in enough quantities to make the blatantly homemade gadget go "WHEEE" and light up every single LED is a good enough reason to flee the room

"I think you're in danger -" Sam is smacked around the head by Hatchetman because he delayed too long and now he has been knocked out

"Samantha?" Sam determined not to let New Sam out-Sam him

I mean if she is you then she has been knocked out

How does this keep happening to you

how much head trauma has Cas healed over the years?

This is why they have to keep him an angel...

"Is this expensive?" "Wha - no don't!" *BOING* *silence* "yeeeah it's shatterproof glass"

If Jordan really just wants to kill Stuart for getting them a 1 star Yelp review then this also has a weird shade of 11x07 where the ghost was getting revenge and took a few attempts to kill that one guy, eventually succeeding as the clown.

Except the clown was tuned to freak Sam out

and Dean's probably gonna be thrilled to fight Hatchetman

Dean having movie night with new Dean (probably stoned but we can't see it) with comatose Stuart in the middle

incredible

2 dudes watching horror movies 5 feet apart with a comatose guy in the middle because they aren't gay

Dean is thrilled to fight Hatchetman

I feel like this can't last

Davy throws in a gratuitous Halloween moment of Hatchetman walking through the park which is just bedecked in Halloween nonsense

no one cares about him wandering around because it's Halloween

It does make you wonder just HOW much nonsense happening on Halloween really is monsters and stuff out there enjoying themselves because it's expected, which, again, like Sam n Dean dressing up as nerds for this whole episode, having monsters mixing with regular folk and being treated as equals is literally the whole Halloween thing. There's less threat than in 4x07 because we're assuming at this point in the episode that the ghost does have a pretty one-track mind about killing Stuart because with all the characterising nonsense filling the episode the actual plot has been pretty sparse considering we're getting to the final 10 minute run now. So, yeah. This Hatchetman ghost is just out there being a part of the festivities, because that's what happens on Halloween, man

LOL And like Sam not telling his double until it was too late, Dean gets this call and is really open in answering in front of new Dean, and now he's filling in New Dean on everything instead of trying to get him to leave or protect him not just from the monster but from knowing about it at all.

Davy like, hey, remember when ghosts used to do loads of freaky stuff on this show just to be scary? And maybe it seemed like you all were getting bored of it or something, but hey this guy has no idea after 14 years that he shouldn't leave the salt line when everything starts thumping in the room despite having been warned the ghost is coming...

Hehehe Dean gets an axe... The moment of him going to smash it then not and checking if it's open... Whether that was improv or not, it's a good character thing in the sense that Dean is being encouraged not to smash first and ask questions later by the meta plot of the episode

Omg New Dean is as brave as our Dean in some ways... He sees Babs in trouble, and immediately is like "HEY" and starts confronting Jordon in Hatchetman

"He's MY friend. He's OUR friend." That's an interesting take on my/our, because that statement works on both levels - both that Dirk is protective of Stuart because he cares about him, but also that Jordan has his own investment in not killing Stuart that he should remember. In terms of emotional appeal, the first is confrontational while the second is the deep appeal to the ghost.

Filed in the deep deep deep deep deep flips of the crypt scenes, this moment demonstrates about 3 different kinds of flips, while still holding true to possessing thing out of its right mind confronting loved one

Omg the hospital security guards watching the Hatchetman chase a damsel through the hospital while New Dean is chased through THEIR hospital. Talk about dramatic irony and a whole commentary on the metaness of Dabb era in the story reversals and extractions to new levels and repurposing of scenes and narratives...

And despite it playing out scene by scene, the guards are laughing at the bad dialogue and pointing out how Hatchetman is so slow, so how can he even catch them, while the damsel slows herself down and badly fakes a trip so that he can catch up to her...

"We killed you! You're dead!" "We all do bad things sometimes"

And there we get the context for the cool quote the Hatchetman model can recite - just as how in fandom often things are quoted out of context as lines which seem emotional or special but are actually awful. Just for starters, all the Sam n Dean fans using "there aint no me if there aint no you" when Dean didn't even SAY that. Now we see the context of this line, we see that while Hatchetman really isn't deep, he's at least not just saying it to sound cool and talk about himself, he's judging the protagonist for her behaviour, as well as invoking relative morality. Which brings up some interesting ideas about what Hatchetman considers good and evil, in regards to seeming to have a concept of it but not including kill himself as a good thing to do. Obviously completely wild in context but in the philosophical language of the show, the nature of monsters and all is one huge question, along with if Sam and Dean are murderers themselves, and of course how they have done bad things for good reasons and vice versa.

Also I think Sam is about to blow up the door?

"I had a messed up childhood" he says, about to blow up a vintage SCOOBY DOO lunchbox to freedom.

SAMMY. Stop destroying symbols of childhood.

At least he's talking freely to New Sam about himself, which is probably already more than he ever let on to Jess. He really wanted to pretend to be well-adjusted to her, that he probably, like, would have rather waited for a locksmith with her than just pick the door to their apartment if they were locked out, you know?

RIP Scooby Doo.

"Cool" they both say, and share a smile.

It's probably weird to ship Sam and Sam just because the shipname is Sam

Dirk went to hide in the fucking Morgue

well done

Okay I need the security guards back to comment on how the fuck Hatchetman knew New Dean would come to the morgue with enough time to beat him there AND cover himself in a sheet and play dead.

Also before that happened Dean grabbed New Dean by the correct shoulder, and made him jump but aw don't worry it's just your new best friend.

Ghost Jordan is still a fucking nerd even in death because rather than talk to them, he presses the button to summon a catchphrase

It's good to know some things never change even when you are a murderous shell of your former self.

UGH SIGH DAVY ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO DO THIS TO ME?

(The director might also be to blame)

So now they are cobbling together a fake trailer for Hatchetman, using footage from the show

That is to say, Hatchetman is set on Oct. 31st, 1983, or, of course, 2 days before Azazel ruined everything.

I'm not sure if this shot is from the show because we have so few Halloween episodes that an exterior shot with Halloween elements would have to be faked up, but the house looks very much like the old Winchester house, but with a bigger porch and more dramatic features. It does, however, strongly feature the tree branch shadows over the appropriate wall to make it look exactly like the opening shot of their story, while this is the opening shot of the Hatchetman story.

"David Jaeger was an honest man making an honest living" *generic shot of something being worked on*

*shot of the back of John Winchester's head walking into his garage in 5x13 to discover his boss out cold because Anna is about to attempt to murder him, said boss hilariously visible in the shot if you know he's there*

So. That happened :P Hatchetman is John. That ain't subtle if you recognise the back of his head in a split second. Even if you don't they're casting him as a car mechanic which is of course directly connected to Dean and John.

"Until one night when a practical joke turned deadly"

*footage of the wife spectre-rage killing her husband in the cold open of 8x06 because she was still pissed he slept with someone else on prom night*

I think the burning vehicle was the car from 10x13 that Sam and Dean burned early in the episode, where it was violently reminiscent of them burning the memory of John for some meta reason I can't remember at the time, but definitely inspired a lot of frantic fandom typing.

Of course the ghost in that episode was the classic ragey vengeance ghost which was blatantly paralleled to the path Dean was on with the Mark of Cain, complete with being crypt scened out of it by a trenchcoat-wearing widow.

They're implying he was then burned alive and left for dead and I don't recognise the footage of the burned feet but I assume they're from some episode or another.

Anyway then they go to more new footage from the "actual" hatchetman movies. This one is set on Nov. 1st so it's not even a "Halloween" movie but ACTUALLY All Saint's Day (All Hallow's Eve being what Hallowe'en is a corruption of), Nov. 1 being of course a meta nod to the fact the episode is not even airing on Halloween but Davy just really really really really wanted his halloween episode so shut up and enjoy it :P

Oh, it's All Saints Day III The Reckoning. Because of course it's a reckoning. That's all that happens in Dabb era, reckonings.

I am so upset.... I made a joke about 5x05 waaay back, and now it's true because of the whole random thing about Dean's random Axe that was John's that Paris Hilton was going to use to Reckoning him but then Sam murderered her before she could. Now Dean's being reckoned.

Okay Dean is a lil dark right now but his come at me bro of "I was hoping you'd say that" and the preceding speech is incredible. I can't believe this show has Jensen except that I CAN believe that with Jensen we go 14 seasons because FUCK he's scary and intense when he wants to be.

But he delivered that chilling speech and then had the ghost use a red button to talk to him and then was badass at it

I mean

he can put the terror into ANY situation

I am a hysterical laugher, I could not have stood where Dean stood in that moment and taken Hatchetman seriously, even under threat of mortal peril. I once nearly got expelled for hysterical laughing over an untied shoelace that started a rapidly spiralling incident.

I love the new fight guy

I love how Dean is spoiling for a fight, and really enjoying how he can push back against this ghost, in a really, really scary way. But in a cold way, not the red hot Mark of Cain way he was dark last time. He's grinning and enjoying this nerdy ass fight, but it's got a vicious streak.

I especially love the choreography of Dean smashing Hatchetman around the head with clashes in time to the music followed by an elevator ding as Sam and New Sam emerge in the next scene.

Poetic cinema

New Sam guesses the key thing for ghost attachment and Old Sam is impressed.

Careful buddy, they're lining you up for replacement.

Dean seems not to have won this fight with the Hatchetman. I bet if Stuart was awake he'd have some useful advice for how anyone could beat him in a fight but especially Stuart, if they knew the correct thing to do.

New Dean saved Old Dean! Maybe we can teamwork distract the Hatchetman and win together. Possibly this is a metaphor for... working with yourself...

Is it foreshadowing for a fight later in the season of plot significance, just like in 11x07 Sam got beat up by a clown in a cage, as a not too subtle metaphor for Lucifer? I'd love an in Dean's head kinda nonsense with Mikey.

"Dean, key chain!"

TEAMWORK BROS ARE THE BEST BROS

New Sam chips in for her part with fuel for the fire.

Everyone high five the Sam or Dean/Dirk to your left

Oh, COOL effect of a ghostly spirit burning out of a model Hatchetman, who is unscatched by the ordeal

I mean, good, he's probably a really expensive collectible

He falls over with a thud, and goes out on a warbling "time to slice and diiiiiiiii" much like "I clobber evil" died on the fire with a last gutteral noise.

Hopefully bookending each other in terms of models with representations in their voices that haunt Dean and all.

Dean, unprompted, thanks Sam for getting him out of his funk and giving him an easy ghost hunt to win. I guess what 13x05 was supposed to be is what this actually turned out to be.

(Honestly, giving Davy episodes post-drama to let us all unwind is turning out to be an extremely good idea with 13x06 as well)

I am MAJORLY concerned about the time stamp on this episode. It better end in a few seconds and go to a full 3 minute trailer for Hell Hazers III or else.

"It was awesome!" "it wasn't really," says Sam, who burst into the room in time to see his brother pinned and choking

Sam moves on to confronting Dean with the concept of not just hiding in his room when they get back.

He gives Dean the "OI, CHEER UP" talk we've all been yelling at the screen. Good. Good Sammy.

Dean turns to the camera. "I'm never going to get over it. I'm just not."

Look, Sam, just because Dean stabbed Lucifer for you, and now you are sleeping without fear, doesn't mean everyone has that luxury :P

elizabethrobertajones Oh dear, there's still 4 minutes left er I guess I keep watching .... *grimaces nervously*

mittensmorgul :D just watch it in context with the rest of the episode

elizabethrobertajones um what I didn't get far enough into what happens next to know what you mean so that's super ominous Sam is still psychoanalysing Dean in car NOW yo uhave me REALLY worried.

Hey, remember how I started this episode with a vague warning from Mittens? Why am I now getting the feeling that I still haven't watched whatever that was about?

"I'm not doing any good cooped up in my room. So whatever you need, I'm there." ("Chief"?)

"Alright, Chief?"

Oh, man. I'm turning into Dean.

Also Dean appears to have, finally, ceded power over to Sam. Again, the reversals of season 10 - Sam was put in this position of power he just was not ready to cope with and not with the stakes that were laid against him. But here, Dean might be driving the car but he's putting all the real power into Sam's hands.

elizabethrobertajones Is it why Sam hates Halloween because Dean turns out to have set an alarm on his watch to remind him to bug Sam about it again the intrigue you have spun is starting to get to me more than actually watching the episode :P

mittensmorgul oh gosh, I should've just kept my mouth shut. It was seriously just an innocent comment for a nice BM scene :P

I am more horrified about the concept of Sam telling an embarrassing story than I am about any amount of slasher and gore. Look, I can Not handle social squickiness and I love Sam and that is going to make this extremely hard to hear.

Dean's gonna love it though, I can tell.

Please. Protect. Sammy.

"It was soooo bad" he says with a haunted look of a man who has been tortured by the devil

Andrea's party got there first

"Next year, we're doing halloween right"

Oh no, don't you dare start talking like you're going to be alive and ready for a party next year, Dean Winchester. I will perish in your place to make it happen.

BAHAHA Dean coming up with matching outfits and suggests Bert and Ernie, before rejecting that one as too weird.

Yeah, you might not remember but we do

We are never going to let you live it down, in fact.

Also, listen, his mouth runs miles ahead of his brain, that was not suggestive until he realised it was and backtracked

You also can't go as Shaggy and Scooby unless you go to a party WITH them and they go as you and Sam

Thelma and Louise... Dean, stop.

Okay it's hilarious that Davy managed to get both Bert and Ernie and Thelma and Louise into this like... somewhere riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight deep down Dean's consciousness is putting things together. It doesn't remember half the shit he says, but like. Hey. Why ARE those two sets of on screen pairs connected, huh, Dean?

Oh, whatever, he's just trying to annoy Sam now

Nyoooom

IT'S THE SECURITY GUARD

RUN, MAN, RUN

Ew, I left it playing to type that and it told me to watch Legacies

Well that was the one wrong note in this whole episode so I suppose something had to happen like that :P

#Davy fanclub #14x04 #season 14 spoilers #oh my god it's good to have the internet back #my stuff

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