#anti Jaime Lannister

[esther-dot]

Idk how to explain it in better terms but the fact that Jaime focuses more on wanting to be perceived as good than actually doing good is a huge turn off for me and the reason why I don't believe grrm is writing a redemption arc for him.

So, here's a definition of redemption arc,

What exactly is a Redemption Arc? It's a type of character development in which your protagonist starts bad and becomes good in the end, often culminating in a heroic act that atones for their past

And I agree with you. His story won't fit the above. Jaime is bitter that doing the right thing is viewed the way it is by Westeros, and we can understand why he's angry, but I haven't seen any genuine regret about trying to kill Bran, for example, and kid killing is a big no-no, so imo, the flow of the story hasn't been to move Jaime from morally bad to morally good the way that expression implies.

In fact, in AFFC, he's talking about how he would have killed Arya and threatens to trebuchet a baby. When we have Ned's horror over Elia and her kids' deaths, over how the Hound murdered Mycah, his refusal to participate in the assassination of Dany, and his decision to risk his life/jeopardize his family by committing treason to protect Jon, I think we know Martin hasn't moved Jaime over into his "good" column. Our perception of his infamous act evolves, but that's not the same thing as Jaime changing.

What I think is so often perceived as a redemption arc is merely that Martin engaged our sympathy for Jaime later in the series and fans equate understanding/caring for a character with moving them into the "good" category rather than accepting that Martin routinely does this. The Hound, Tyrion, Theon...he calls them all villains, but at one point or another, we get tragedy and suffering in their lives That leads fans to conclude that the Hound and Tyrion are actually decent people, when by any objective standards, they aren't. The point isn't to move them from villain to hero, it's to offer believable explanations for why they are who they are, do what they do, and make them dynamic characters. Embracing the idea that good and bad impulses can exist in the same person, that the same person can be brave and kind as well as murderous and cruel, that's not too big of an ask. And imo, it's a shame fans want to use one to negate the other.

Even Jaime killing Aerys which kinda seems heroic is shaded by not only his greater loyalty to his family, but his own feelings about Aerys, and part of his memory is how he stood by while Aerys committed other cruel acts. In killing Aerys, he saved countless people, familial loyalty or no, it was the right thing to do, but we have all the rest of the series showing us, doing what is right really isn't of the utmost concern to Jaime. His loyalty is to his family of origin, he has an obsession with Cersei, and doesn't even seem to care much for his own children which again, I think indicates that as layered as he becomes with each new book, it's a misread to settle on the idea of redemption/good guy.

Fans think he's gonna kill Cersei as that final redemptive act, but to me that feels like looking at things from a Cersei hater perspective, not Jaime's. The man has been written as rather, disinterested in acting on a right/wrong spectrum, and is generally more concerned with family, it seems a little unreasonable to think a suitable ending for him is to reject that because how would such a man continue? He needs peace with his decisions, what he does has to flow from the essence of who he is, so it seems more likely to me that his end is dying with Cersei. That isn't redemption in the eyes of the fandom, but I think it could very well be redemption for himself. He has that nightmare about Rhaegar blaming him for Elia and the children's deaths, his own children may all die, there is nothing he can do about that, but going to their mother, the person he was faithful to his entire life, who is essentially his life partner/wife, it allows him to be truly loyal when all others think him faithless, and as annoying as some will find it, I think it gives him his own form of honor.

I wrote once about thinking he would die with Cersei:

I'm ok with Jaime deciding his fate is to be with Cersei, in birth, in life, even in death. As I thought it worked in the show, returning to Cersei in the books will likewise mean he is able to have some self-respect. I don't think you can read his, I mean, I would say Cersei obsession and believe he'd ever have any peace of mind if she died alone while he had to go on living. (link)

In that post I linked to meta about that and a great write-up on Jaime that I think you'll enjoy!

#dot chat #anti jaime lannister #(just to be safe) #anti asoiaf fandom #asoiaf speculation

[jonstarks]

i think the more i distant myself from GoT/asoiaf fandom, the more i dislike jaime lannister. if i just sit alone with my thoughts while looking at jaime post, all i feel was just disgust and annoyed. his "finest moment" weren't even bc he saved people, it's bc the crazy Targaryen king told him to killed his dad and he refused! and i don't actually mind that but he goes on and on about saving half of kings landing population and I'm just sitting here like, girl, brienne, baby, you can do so much better girl, gtfo that pathetic self obsessed attempted child murderer!

#anti jaime lannister #nikolaj is the only reason he's bearable #god that dude suck

[agentrouka-blog]

When some people say Jaime as a female would have been like Sansa 💀 Sansa is not as self obsessed is Jaime is, I doubt she will ever be. Sansa wants to see the good in other people, Jaime wants other people to see the good in him. Sounds similar concepts but are actually vastly different. Dany, though I can see.

(post referenced)

I agree.

Sansa wants to see the good in other people, Jaime wants other people to see the good in him.

That is so well put. It's the difference between growing up Lannister and growing up Stark/Tully. The fundamental relationship to other people.

#sansa stark #anti jaime lannister #not really just for filtering

[elegantwoes]

“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.”

Imagine reading this passage and coming to the conclusion Lyanna eloped with Rhaegar voluntarily. If she doesn’t like Robert for fathering a bastard and thinks his actions are unethical, what makes you think she would fall for a guy who is married and has two children? Foul play was at hands. Anything else would ruin what little characterization Lyanna has.

'It would seem he has met some trouble on the road. My lord father is quite vexed. You would not perchance have any notion of who might have wished my brother ill, would you?” … “Your brother has been taken at my command, to answer for his crimes,” Ned Stark said.'

Look at Ned unfailingly staying on Catelyn’s side even though he doesn’t have the full story. Couple goals.

'Littlefinger did not need to be urged. “I will bring the City Watch,” he promised Ned.'

And yet you won’t come on time, asshole. Which no doubt was deliberately done.

'As you say, m’lord.” “Still … we wouldn’t want him to leave here entirely unchastened, so”—through the night and the rain, he glimpsed the white of Jaime’s smile—“kill his men.'

I will never forgive Jaime for practically killing Jory and crippling Ned. Never.

'When he opened his eyes again, Lord Eddard Stark was alone with his dead. His horse moved closer, caught the rank scent of blood, and galloped away. Ned began to drag himself through the mud, gritting his teeth at the agony in his leg. '

If I am forced to read this horrific part then so will you guys.

'Littlefinger and the City Watch found him there in the street, cradling Jory Cassel’s body in his arms.'

You are late, little finger. Poor Jory. Rest in peace.

#asoiaf reread project #agot reread #Ned Stark #anti Jaime Lannister

[greenmeanqueen]

The fandom sympathy for abusive husbands and neglectful/uncaring fathers always fascinated me. The fandom will routinely exonerate fathers from the same moral failings or alleged moral flaws that they crucify mothers for and then they’ll act like they’re eloquent and progressive scholars for doing so. Tywin, Jaime, Robert, and now Viserys. Mothers are held to higher standards than fathers.

(Btw I don't care what Alicent's delusional haters say, she should have pull a Cersei and kill her husband. Women murdering their rapists will never be villainous).

thank you for your ask!!

it’s not as if we’re expecting the fandom as a whole to treat these characters as purely one-note, stereotypical evil villains! they are complex beings, but they still had a seriously negative impact on someone whom they were tasked to fill a parental role for. that’s part of what makes them complicated, well-written characters. and when you’ve got a character who’s done bad things, it’s okay to try and analyze why they did those bad things… without absolving them of the responsibility that they knowingly did those things.

and as you mentioned, there is a horrifically misogynistic theme going on here that mothers are held to higher standards than fathers are. it’s as if the fathers are allowed to remain “people”, while the mothers must solely be defined by their role as a mother. there’s probably some broader societal implications going on here, but someone much more knowledgeable than i am could explain it better than i ever could. really, when you’ve got a character who’s not a great parent, by all means, analyze them for their failings in the role they were given to play, but let’s hold the other parental figures to the child(ren) in question to that same standard. it’s only fair, no?

(also yes, you wouldn’t have caught me complaining if my queen alicent gave viserys what was coming to him since he decided to marry a teenager)

#anti asoiaf fandom #anti hotd fandom #anti viserys i targaryen #anti tywin lannister #anti jaime lannister #anti robert baratheon #alicent hightower #cersei lannister #pro alicent hightower #ask a gal

[tartheanmaid]

who would you have preferred Brienne to be with? ALSO I AM A 100% JAMIE HATER FUCK JAMIE

ummmm honestly idk. there’s some potential with her and sansa (the whole true knight thing the both of them have going) but other than that i don’t really see romance as a part of brienne’s story.

devotion? love? absolutely. i just don’t think romance is the way “brienne the beauty” is going to be subverted. i think it would be lovely if brienne was like the commander of sansa’s queensguard and that mirroring her position with renly. i think that would be a sufficient ending for that whole storyline of hers.

#asoiaf #ask #anon #anti jaime lannister #brienne of tarth #sansa stark #qitn #asoiaf endgame speculation

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Do you think Jaime will be jealous of Robert Strong with Cersei?

Would Jaime be jealous of an 8 foot probable reanimated corpse who can’t speak, eat/drink/go to the bathroom, possibly has the decapitated head of another man (c’mon BNFs; if he has no head, how can he see?)—in other words, a 0 on the attractiveness meter who Cersei would never seduce (not that she’d need to)?

Jaime had seen him born, that was true, though more for Cersei than the child. But he had never held him. "How would it look?" his sister warned him when the women finally left them. "Bad enough Joff looks like you without you mooning over him." Jaime yielded with hardly a fight. The boy had been a squalling pink thing who demanded too much of Cersei's time, Cersei's love, and Cersei's breasts. Robert was welcome to him. —ASOS Jaime VII

Yes he would, and he’s going to tell his therapist Ilyn Payne (and us, regrettably) all about it.

#ask #asoiaf #opinion #anti jaime lannister

[alicenttully]

something that I really love is grrm's subversion of the animals associated with the lannisters and martells.

snakes are often depicted as symbols of evil whereas lions have been connected with righteousness (consider how jesus is called a lion in the bible)

however in asoiaf the "snakes" are unmistakeably flawed (doran, arianne, oberyn etc) but they are still a thousand times better than the "lions" (tywin, kevan, cersei, tyrion, jaime)

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #dornesolstice #house martell #doran martell #arianne martell #anti tyrion lannister #anti jaime lannister #funny how i dont have to bother tag anti cersei #lol #anti house lannister

[maid-with-sunset-in-her-hair]

I think both Jaime and Tyrion will be dead at the end of the series, because the author keeps paralleling the deaths of the people that benefited from the murders of Elia and her children:

Robert Baratheon benefited the most from the murders, and didn't do anything to give them justice. He died slowly and painfully from a gut wound, murdered by the wife he abused, and she also slaughtered nearly all his children.

Jon Arryn went to Dorne to smooth things out and help Robert. He died slowly and painfully from a poison that targeted his guts, murdered by the wife he mistreated, and nearly all his children died as babies.

Tywin Lannister ordered the murders of Elia and her children. He died from a gut wound in an humiliating way at the hands of the child he abused. His daughter is definitely going to die, and I don't think the narrative will spare Jaime or Tyrion. Not when their father is more guilty than the other two.

#asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #my meta #anti tywin lannister #anti jon arryn #anti robert baratheon #i think ser gregor's death also counts but I don't remember the details that well 😔 #anti jaime lannister #anti tyrion lannister #i dont think saying they'll die counts as hate but well

[the-amazing-spider-bi]

sorry but Jaime Lannister’s characterisation is so funny to me. yes I tried to kill your eight year old but I draw the line at paying people to do my killing for me. you better believe if I want a third grader dead I will do the child murder myself. preferably with a sword so I can look him in the eye while he dies by my blade

#lawful evil ass guy #actually nobody did lawful evil like him #pre character development I guess #jaime lannister #asoiaf #acok #Léa reads asoiaf #Léa talks #got #something something that post that’s like Jaime lannister would be anti gun but for unhinged reasons. like if you want someone dead you #should be able to best him in combat without a coward’s weapon

[norringtondeservestheworld]

can't believe it's canon that in the last season Jaime was chilling with his brother then Brienne entered and Jaime jumped on his feet murmuring my lady like a Jane Austen's hero and Tyrion was like damn bro, someone is smitten, isn't it?

#braime #jaime x brienne #jaime lannister #tyrion lannister #anti twincest #anti lannincest #anti jaime x cersei #game of thrones #got #tyrion's face is hilarious lmao #one of the few scenes from the last season that has rights #nikolaj coster waldau #peter dinklage

[agentrouka-blog]

Those who say Jaime did not intend to hurt Edmure's child and was only threatening to get him to cooperate, my issue with this statement is does it really make it any better? What is the reason behind his threat? He wants Edmure to surrender the castle so he can uphold his family's tyrannical regime. So where is the better, the redeeming part? When he sees Daven Lannister's red wedding 2.0, will he be as enthusisatic about his oath to Catelyn as he is now (which is to say very little, after all he considered it fulfilled just by transferring it on Brienne) or will he feel more loyalty towards his family? The answer is quite easy for me. He wants to explore being a better man but not at the expense of him being a Lannister.

That's a great last line.

Jaime just wants the hostilities to be over so the smallfolk can return to the fields and have a fighting chance of planting some last crops to survive the winter. It's, of course, entirely convenient that this is only now suddenly important when House Lannister seems to have won.

I feel oddly reminded of this line:

She had supped enough on tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children. I want my people to smile when they see me ride by, the way Viserys said they smiled for my father. But before she could do that she must conquer. (ACOK, Daenerys II)

There's a lovely juxtaposition of images in AFFC:

It felt good. This was justice. Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just. (AFFC, Jaime III)

He returned to Hoster Tully's chair, pulled over the map of the Trident, and flattened it beneath his golden hand. (AFFC, Jaime VII)

The image of Goldenhand the Just (killer of the sheltering displaced) flattening the Riverlands seems unbelievably Lannister to me.

#rouka queue #anti jaime lannister

[jeyneofpoole]

bad show eppysode simulator. cersei has three glasses of wine in her hand and orange hair. she is making out sloppy-style with a floor length gilded mirror but oh no! jaime is not there! where is jaime? he’s actually staring soulfully into brienne’s eyes as she delivers a heartfelt monologue about being ugly (she is gwendoline christie.) across the narrow sea missandei is curling dany’s hair with a revlon styling brush it’s very chic very medieval. jorah is jacking off in the corner they just sort of ignore him. in the north theon and sansa are running through the woods to escape evil gay iwan rheon and theon looks sooooo tortured (they dunked alfie allen in olive oil and dressed him in an ascot made out of dryer lint.) loras gets hatecrimed so hard that he blows up and is never mentioned again. in the background of some shots you can see peter dinklage tying a noose. at the very end kit harington turns to the camera and says well we sure had a game of thrones! and they they all stand in a line and kill themselves. easily television!

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #got #game of thrones #anti got #sansa stark #theon greyjoy #ramsay bolton #tyrion lannister #jon snow #cersei lannister #jaime lannister #brienne of tarth #daenerys targaryen #missandei of naath #loras tyrell

[aplusbequalsc]

#house of the dragon #daemon x rhaenyra #rhaenyra targaryen #game of thrones #jaime lannister #cersei lannister #jaime x cersei #anti twincest #jaimecersei #daenerys targaryen #anti lannicest #jon snow #cersei x jaime #jonerys #lena headey #nikolaj coster waldau #kit harington #anti jaime x cersei

[unknown-terrain]

Congrats to show!Jaime for finally making it to #1 on a popular media list! 😂 Good to see that heading onto the 5th anniversary of the disastrous S8, Jaime's forced Twincest ending is still truly hated by the masses and that Dumb and Dumber's dream of J/C becoming the "true love" story the audience would grow to love be completely shattered over and over. Anybody with a functioning brain could have told them Twincest was never going to be loved. GRRM himself told them that through asoiaf and making Jaime/Brienne his Beauty and the Beast story but of course D&D never understood the books and thought they could do better. Anyways it's always nice to see D&D get hate for ruining Jaime lmao.

#jaime lannister #nikolaj coster waldau #anti got #game of thrones #anti game of thrones #anti d&d #anti jaime x cersei #anti twincest #anti lannicest #anti cersei lannister #anti cersei #jaime x brienne #braime #brienne of tarth #asoiaf

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Why did fans assume that Jaime is fulfilling the oath he swore to Cat regarding her daughters? By saving Brienne and giving her sword is enough for them.

it wouldn’t be the first time ASOIAF fans applauded a morally dark male character for doing the bare minimum

#fandom critical #ask #anti jaime lannister