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percheduphere · 3 months

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Hi! Firstly, I wanted to say, I LOVE your analysis, and your detailed deep dive into characters!!! I love your view of Sylvie, and I especially love your metas on Mobius (my beloved). I always jump with happiness, when your new meta shows up! :D Anyway, I wanted to ask - I know, you mentioned it many times but - how do you think the timeline of falling in love for the other looked like? I was thinking about it a lot. Like when Loki started to fall for Mobius? How s2e1 and the fact, that Mobius didn't remember him impacted him? What you think, that was THE moment, when Loki fall for Mobius as heard as he could? And what was the moment he realized he loved him? (and what did he THINK ABOUT THAT????) Also how do you think he was copying with this love for Mobius for those centuries in a loop?? ... And same for Mobius :D When do you think he actually fell for THIS specific Loki? When did he had that OH moment? :D (when he realized he love him) (Also how the 1893 DATE impacted them??? xD ) And lastly, what they think the other is feeling? They seem to me, like classic IDIOTS IN LOVE trope, but I would really REALY love to see your thoughts on that!!! Once again, I thank you for all your work, you're brilliant (I fell in love with your meta on sense and sensibility) Have a great day!!! ❤️ PS: I'm sorry for mistakes (I'm terrible at English) Tru

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHEN THEY STARTED FALLING FOR EACH OTHER

As always, thank you to all the lovely gif artists who make my metas possible.

Thank you so much for your patience @trutrustories!

With respect to the individual timelines of when Mobius and Loki "fall for each other", obviously my take is subjective and there are plenty of viewers who don't see any romantic angle between them at all. That's fine because even without the romantic angle, I think the timelines I map out still demonstrates key moments in which Mobius and Loki's relationship with each other deepens.

As a warning, since this is a timeline request from the perspective of two characters, this post is MASSIVE.

NARRATIVE TECHNIQUES

As a general note, the Loki series uses a few narrative techniques fairly regularly.

A.) REFRAMING / REVERSE PAY-OFF

The series has a habit of reframing the interpretation of previous episodes with the presentation of new information in future episodes. That is, reverse pay-off. Here are key examples, which I discuss in the "timelines" later:

Sylvie tells Loki she can't sleep in front of people she doesn't trust in S1E3; Loki falls asleep in front of Mobius in S1E2

Loki describes love as a dagger in S1E3; Mobius gives Loki daggers in S1E2.

Loki timeslips "uncontrollably", yet manages to timeslip back to Mobius with increasing accuracy in S2E1; Loki realizes timeslipping can be controlled by thinking about "who" in S2E5.

B.) MIRRORING

Loki mirrors Mobius's emotional trajectory from S1E1 - S2E1 (S1E3 has no Mobius). Episode 5 in BOTH seasons is when they both give each other up for the sake of the other.

Sylvie (chaos) & Ravonna (order) and Loki (chaos) & Mobius (order).

C.) REPETITION

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he wants and returns his friendship. Mobius is pruned. (S1E4)

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he and Sylvie "don't see things the same way". Mobius has no memory of him. (S2E1)

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he (Loki) loves him. Mobius (as Don) spaghettifies. (S2E5)

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he has to give him up to save everyone. Mobius is left behind. (S2E6)

Let's keep these narrative techniques in mind as we proceed!

MOBIUS

Mobius is pretty straightforward. Though I didn't perceive any romantic love in my first watch through of S1, the angle of romance feels more credible when reviewing S1 after having seen S2E1. S2E1 reframes how we can view Mobius's emotional motivations.

The inferred backstory, as the audience understands it, is that Mobius has studied Lokis for eons. Loki is his area of expertise. His pet project. His special interest. As I mentioned in another meta, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to gradually fall in love with the subject matter of their work over time. In this case, that subject matter happens to be an actual person.

By the time Loki is apprehended by the TVA, Mobius already had a plan in motion to save him from deletion. This wasn't a spur of the moment decision for him. Mobius had been preparing for this encounter for a while. Likely centuries. This is inferred through the fact another TVA agent seeks Mobius out immediately with Loki (L1130)'s file. Why bother doing that if all variants who cause a nexus event get "reset"?

And boy, is Mobius eager to have Loki by his side once he has him. In what world would anyone offer 2012 Loki a handshake? Mobius's, apparently.

Mobius also doesn't hesitate to touch Loki right off the bat. When Loki pauses to look at the TVA "world", Mobius lays a guiding hand on Loki's back. (Unfortunately couldn't find the gif for this).

It also doesn't take Mobius long to get emotionally compromised once he has Loki under his wing. I talk about the exact moment I believe this happens here.

This reaction from Loki, in response to Mobius's praise, is a big moment for both of them. They genuinely like and enjoy one another in this scene.

Moments later, Mobius absolutely gushes about Loki to his best friend boss lady, Ravonna.

He's so proud of Loki's breakthroughs and is really happy with how well they work together as a team. So much so that his judgment gets clouded and he insists on bringing Loki out into the field, where Loki's most likely to betray him.

NOTE: The moment above is when I believe he's officially compromised.

By the middle of S1E2, Mobius fell first. However, I don't think Mobius realizes the exact nature of his feelings for Loki until S1E5. From a platonic standpoint, Mobius definitely started thinking of Loki as a friend by this time. Otherwise, he wouldn't have called Loki a "bad friend" in S1E4.

In a S1 interview, Tom describes Mobius as having love for Loki, and Loki, at that point in his character development, "not wanting that" (you can see a compilation of interviews with Tom and Owen here). Based on this, I think it's safe to say that Mobius's love for Loki is not only genuine but also unconditional and abiding.

This unconditional, abiding love is what allows Mobius to want to believe in Loki despite his evident betrayal in S1E4. In the same episode, he implies via rhetorical question that Loki doesn't deserve to be alone and accepts that it's Sylvie that Loki wants to be with.

If Mobius hadn't accepted this, he wouldn't have made it his focus to bring Sylvie to Loki in S2E5.

And as I mention elsewhere, the moment below was the first instance in which I felt there could be unrequited love. I think Mobius's realizes it, too, in this scene:

Mobius maintains his acceptance of Loki's feelings for Sylvie throughout S2, however grudgingly. A microanalysis of the McDonald's scene may be reviewed here.

In S2E1, Mobius's love for Loki is demonstrated throughout. I discuss how pivotal this episode is here.

In terms of Mobius's personal perspective on their relationship. I think Mobius believes he will only ever Loki's friend and #2, as opposed to #1, a position he believes Sylvie holds.

While Mobius knows Loki will support him as a friend and can count on his protection on the field, I don't think it ever crosses his mind that Loki would prioritize him (that is, place Mobius as #1). Their last private interaction would reinforce Mobius's notion that Loki will take Sylvie's side if given the choice to choose between the two of them:

And while Mobius might not like it, while Mobius is clearly hurt by it, he doesn't allow this interaction to ruin his friendship with Loki. Because he loves Loki deeply.

It can even be argued that, in addition to personal guilt due to his role in the TVA, Mobius doesn't fight Sylvie's accusations because to do so would hurt Sylvie, and hurting Sylvie would hurt Loki, which is unacceptable. Therefore, Mobius just takes it, even though it would be very easy to point out to Sylvie that killing HWR triggered the crisis they're in.

As far as Mobius is concerned, he mostly likely thinks his love continues to be unrequited and has made peace with that since S1. His final scene could be interpreted as grief over the loss of a friend as well as grief over the loss of what could have been.

LOKI

Loki's feelings for Mobius evolve much more gradually, and the emotional journey of those feelings is accordingly more complex.

In S1E1, I believe Loki appreciates Mobius's directness. I know I've stated this multiple times, but I think it bears repeating: a lot of Loki fans absolutely hate Mobius's treatment of Loki in this episode, but I think it's important to remember where Loki's state of mind is at.

There was no way 2012 Loki would have been receptive to soft compassion. He doesn't understand soft. He sees softness as a weakness and refuses to engage with it because he doesn't want to be seen as soft. What 2012 Loki does understand is cruelty. He will listen and pay attention to cruelty because cruelty is a gesture of power, and power is control. His default mode is the desire and respect of power, which Mobius has over him. He respects that he has been bested. Crucially, Mobius balances his cruelty (to get Loki to listen) with genuine kindness. This is what allows Loki's first breakthrough of choosing to be vulnerable with Mobius. Admitting he doesn't like hurting people, that he is weak, (that he isn't happy), requires trust on Loki's part that Mobius will not mock him for it.

Unlike Mobius, Loki does not have access to files and tape recordings on Mobius's life. As such, Loki starts out with less power in their dynamic. All he knows about Mobius is what he gleans from Mobius's treatment of him and others. And Mobius, even when he is frustrated and annoyed with Loki, consistently gives Loki chances to demonstrate his ability outside of the context of being a villain. He never gives up on him.

Mobius, through his consistency of compassion and refusal to abuse his power (until he's betrayed in S1E4), proves he is trustworthy to Loki.

Nevertheless, the power imbalance puts Loki in a corner where he can't afford to place all his eggs in the Mobius basket. There's manipulation happening between them, and they both know it, so their interactions in S1, while entertaining for both of them, are also colored with mutual distrust.

For this reason, in addition to raw curiosity and poor impulse control, Loki runs after Sylvie and betrays the friendship with Mobius he didn't know he already had.

In S1E3, we have our first instance of new information paying off the meaning of a scene from a previous episode. On the train, Sylvie informs Loki she cannot sleep in front of people she doesn't trust (can't find the gif with the quote). Since Sylvie is a Loki, the audience can infer the same baseline nature may apply to "our" Loki as well.

In S1E2, we find Loki sleeping across Mobius. The significance of this is implied but not confirmed until S1E3.

When Sylvie wakes up (having fallen asleep despite herself, reinforcing the relational impact of Mobius to Loki to Sylvie, as well as affirming tentative trust on her part), she finds Loki drunk. When people are drunk, subconscious feelings come to the fore.

It is here that we have our second instance of new information paying off a scene from the previous episode. Or alternatively, Loki's interpretation of a previous moment with Mobius defined in a scene with Sylvie: "Love is a dagger."

Personally, I don't think Loki feels any love for Mobius when he makes his infamous metaphor. What I think happens in this scene, is that Loki has subconsciously interpreted the gift of daggers as an act of love.

Why?

Because daggers are for stabbing people in the back. For someone to give another a dagger implies absolute trust. That level of trust entails love.

But at this point in the story, Loki's experience with love and trust is very new. Perhaps it stands to reason, at least in Loki's hindbrain, that those feelings would be better directed at someone familiar, someone like himself: Sylvie. It certainly helps that he's immediately fascinated with her to begin with and he genuinely cares for her.

Significantly, upon Loki making the dagger disappear, Sylvie describes the dagger, love, as "it isn't real". This is an answer Loki intentionally draws out of Sylvie, because he and Sylvie are the same, which reinforces the thought that the love he subconsciously feels from Mobius cannot possibly be real. I think this may be what Tom is alluding to when he describes Loki as not wanting Mobius's love (because he isn't ready for it yet, even if it's purely platonic).

Loki and Sylvie's capture in S1E4 lead to the interrogation scene, which in turn leads to the tension of mutual distrust and mutual desire for trust snapping. This is articulated when Mobius calls Loki a "bad friend", which startles him. Within the MCU canon, no one has ever called Loki a 'friend'.

The tension breaks when Mobius returns to Loki, and they make very clear, active choices about what they want:

They choose to forgive one another

They choose to trust one another

They choose to affirm that a friendship between them exists

They choose to be on the same page and side

They talk through their fight in a very direct and healthy way. In addition to being called a 'friend' for the first time, it's highly likely this is the first time Loki has successfully mended fences with someone who isn't family. Thus, in one episode, Loki has had not 1 but 2 substantive milestones that contribute not just to his relationship with Mobius but his personal healing and growth.

But the narrative demands that as soon as the main character experiences triumph, they must experience tragedy, too.

Loki loses Mobius a total of 4 times in the series:

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he wants and returns his friendship. Mobius is pruned. (S1E4)

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he and Sylvie "don't see things the same way". Mobius has no memory of him. (S2E1)

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he (Loki) loves him. Mobius (as Don) spaghettifies. (S2E5)

Loki loses Mobius after realizing he has to give him up to save everyone. Mobius is left behind. (S2E6)

If you notice, Loki's emotional journey, at least as far as romantic reciprocation is concerned, is more or less a season behind Mobius's. Its progression is also punctuated by loss almost as soon as the personal epiphany occurs.

After Sylvie, for lack of a better word, "dumps" him, Loki has time to reflect on what has transpired, the dire consequences likely awaiting, and who has chosen to support him all along (a review of Mobius's decision-making where Loki's well-being is concerned may be read here.)

With this in mind, Loki runs in search of Mobius.

Which makes encountering a Mobius who doesn't know him, that much more devastating.

Tom's acting here is something else. Loki's desperation to have his Mobius back is visceral and foreshadows a similar desperation in S2E5. This moment, I feel, is the beginning of Loki's feelings tilting from platonic love to romantic. He's not fully there yet like Mobius already is, but it's starting.

And that gradual build-up of investment in Mobius spreads over S2E1 - S2E5. In these S2 episodes, Loki mirrors Mobius's emotional trajectory from S1E1 - S2E1 (S1E3 has no Mobius). Keep this mirroring in mind because Episode 5 in BOTH seasons is when they both give each other up for the sake of the other.

In S2E2, Loki protects Mobius physically:

And supports him emotionally:

In S2E3, Loki enjoys his magic and curbs its intensity for Mobius:

In S234, unbeknownst to Mobius, Loki defends his character and his efforts to save the timelines:

Now, S2E5 is where it all culminates.

I'm getting close to the gif threshold and the fit-check has been discussed at length, so I want to focus on this scene. Here, Loki tells Mobius that he "belongs" in the TVA and that he saved Loki's life when he first arrived. This shot of Loki saying Mobius's name echoes Mobius's look of unrequited love in S1E5's goodbye scene.

But I don't think Loki has fully articulated, in his mind, exactly what his feelings are because he's rushing. His sole focus for the time-being is getting Mobius back, and he does so, temporarily, through recruiting Don.

It's when Loki find's Sylvie that he has the time to once again reflect on the nature of his and Mobius's relationship and his regard for it as he did in S1E6. And it is, once again, Sylvie who acts as the catalyst for Loki's emotional epiphany.

When Sylvie challenges Loki to say what he actually wants, he struggles to respond. The want is too vulnerable to reveal.

I love Tom's micro-expressions in the above gifs (thank you @starrose17!) The pursed lips, the hard swallow, and the tears welling up in his eyes ... This is it, this is the moment I believe Loki finally realizes he's in love with Mobius.

He phrases his desire as wanting his friends back. That's true enough (an analysis of what the TVA means to Loki and Mobius may be read here). However, Loki later reuses the word "belong" and applies it to himself. Mobius, in his words, "belongs" in the TVA. Without his friends (the TVA) where does Loki "belong"?

This is outside of text and the sociopolitical conflict between the artists and the studio, but the case can be made that Loki doesn't entirely trust Sylvie with his feelings. Loki did, after all, witness Sylvie reprimand and humiliate Mobius. To directly admit love for the same person Sylvie harshly rebuked may not be received well, but I think Sylvie already knows and may have known as far back as when she commented "he cares about you" in S1E5.

From Loki's perspective, I think Loki knows Mobius loves him, but I am less certain if Loki knows Mobius loves him romantically. That said, prior to his sacrifice, I think Loki was emotionally ready to confess. I also believe Loki, while not 100% confident his romantic love would be reciprocated, senses his odds for reciprocation are good.

Unfortunately, their fate was to become star-crossed lovers.

(For now).

#loki #mobius #lokius #loki series #loki season 2 #loki meta #my meta #loki analysis #my analysis #asks

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